DREAM of the 2 BOATS – Mario Alleckna.
Something that I take very serious is when children receive something from the Lord. As it says in Acts and Joel, “In the last days the children will prophesy.”
About 6 weeks ago our daughter, who is 12 yrs old, woke up one
morning and told us about a dream she had that night. It was a
strong dream. One of those dreams that is so very real and vivid.
The kind that you remember clearly and in detail, and that leaves
a very strong impression. As it turns out, it was clearly a prophetic
dream.
In her dream she saw two ships. But these ships were as though
they were flying through the air. The one ship, were she was on,
was a raggedy old ferry boat. Instead of seatbelts people were
strapped to their old seats with rope. There was a captain on the
ferry who was kind yet strong and firm. While telling everyone to
hang on tightly, and that the ride would be tough and not an easy
ride, he kept assuring them with a great confidence that he would
bring them safely to their destination.
The other ship was a fancy cruise ship. Both ships were going
side by side, but at a distance. She could see the people clearly
as she looked over to the cruise ship. Some of them were her
friends from church. They were not sitting in any seats or wearing
seatbelts. Instead they were dancing and laughing while on a
large party deck.
Once in a while both ships would come together, side by side,
while drifting through the air. Our daughter called over to her friends
on the cruise ship telling them that they must come over onto her
ferry boat because the party ship was the wrong ship.
But there was also a captain on the cruise ship. He had scary
eyes, and whenever our daughter would call her friends he would
look straight at her and his eyes were evil. He then would turn to
the people on his ship and say, Dont listen to them, they are
just jealous that you are having so much fun. You are on the right
ship where the fun is.”
Then the two ships drifted apart again and she could only see the
cruise ship at a distance. When they came together again one of
her friends finally listened and jumped over onto her ferry boat.
After they had drifted apart once more, the captain told everyone
on the ferry to hold on, its going to get rough. Large meteor-like
rocks came flying toward them but the captain was able to safely
dodge each and everyone.
Suddenly and without warning, the cruise ship, which was at a
distance, dropped downward and completely disappeared.
-Is this a prophetic picture of the church? Discuss it now below-
WOW! How good the LORD is to warn his children with dreams like this one! Thanks for letting us know.
Wow, indeed! The moment I began to rread the account of this dream I knew in my spirit what the warning message was. Way too many in the “church” today feel everything is okay, so lets have fun. God loves us, so we are okay. It doesn’t matter what we do in our lives once we have said a little prayer someone told us to say. Listen up folks, the warnings are all around us! Take heed of this dream warning. If all is going smooth, fun and games, you are not doing much for Christ, if anything.
i am not sure if the party ship is part of the church. it could be the world. we live in times when people are encouraged to eat, drink and be merry……. almost as if the masses are kept partying they wont realise what has hit them when disaster comes. they will not be ready.
the church needs to be praying for the world. it is sad that many in the church dont pray or seem to feel the need to pray. but dont wait for others to do it – stand in the gap.
In 1998, a close friend had a dream of two boats, being carried by the current of a stream. One boat contained partying people, laughing and playing, without any concern about where they were headed. The other boat contained those who looked much like the people in the first boat, but suddenly, a fork in the stream appeared. To the left, the current picked up speed, and the first boat turned into that fork of the stream. The other fork was almost without a current; the water was still and quiet. The second boat steered into the quiet waters. In time, the boat on the right fork drifted into waters filled with fish. The people cast fishing lines into the water and began to catch a great number of fish. The fork taken by the other boat went faster and faster as the current increased. The people were giddy with delight until their boat suddenly crashed on the rocks that appeared as unseen below, the water had grown shallower and shallower.
This seems to be something of a parallel to the dream experienced by this twelve year-old girl, and ought to be a warning to those who have swallowed the lie that following Jesus is one big, happy party with no responsibility on our parts. Truth is, there is great reason to rejoice and to experience freedom in Christ, while at the same time recognizing our part in discipleship, and in obedience to the commands of Jesus. A great irony is that we are both at liberty and we are bond slaves of Christ at the same time.
Thank you for sharing this dream. I want to share an extract from an email I recieved from ‘Out Of Zion Ministries’, David Silver’s comment. I do this as, the content to me seems echoed in the dream, and because the writer has allowed, and requested, it be freely shared.
“The CARMEL ALERT June 18th 2010
A compilation of news reports from the past week for the information of those committed to praying
David’s Comment: A Word from the Lord ? – “Get Ready!”
As I was preparing to speak at the first meeting in Canada last Saturday evening I believe I heard the Lord give me a word for the rest of the meetings. What believe I heard was just 2 words – Get Ready! The week before the Gaza flotillla crisis, I had been describing the current situation in the Middle East as a bomb with the explosive material packed in, the fuse inserted and a match being held ready to be lit. All it will take is someone or something to strike the match and the whole Middle East will explode. The flotilla crisis could have been or could yet to be the thing that causes the ignition. If not then there are many other ways it could start ………….
* Hizbollah has united with the Lebanese army and have more than 50,000 of the latest missiles ready to fire at all of Israel
* Hizbollah are building tunnels under the northern border and plan to infiltrate the north & Gallilee -they also have enlisted Israeli Arabs in northern towns
* Hamas, despite the sea blockade, has been amassing weapons & rockets that have been brought in through the tunnels
* Iran continues to work towards nuclear weapons and its mad leader continues to call for Israel’s destruction
* Iran has been carrying out naval manouevers in the Straits of Hermuz and threatens to set the Straights on fire if Israel or the USA attacks it
* The USA is massing its naval forces in the Gulf – the 5th fleet is already there and more aircraft carriers and warships are on the way
* Both the USA & Israel are sending submarines to the area
* Israel and the USA have been carrying out mass Air Force drills practicing a joint attack on a “distant enemy”
* Russia is in the process of supplying 50 billion US dollars of the latest weaponry to Syria & Lebanon
* Iran is sending a ship in a further attempt to break Israel’s sea blockade of Gaza – Israel says this is a ‘declaration of war’
* Hizbollah is trying to organise a stampede of thousands across the northern border, which will result in mutitudes of deaths – on both sides
I am sure you can see that I am not exaggerating when I say that the bomb is primed and ready to be ignited. When that happens the Middle East will go up in flames, and that will very likely bring the whole world into a time of great trouble. The world’s economy, which is hanging on by a thread, cannot take another oil shock. Such a scenario may be a few months or even just a few weeks away.
I have not shared the above facts to cause fear, but to prepare you for this inevitable eventuality. Remember “failing to prepare is preparation to fail”. It is imperative that the Body of Messiah realise what is happening in the Middle East and to stand with and pray for Israel as the whole world turns against Israel and Zionism. We are witnessing a rise in anti-Semitism that is unparalleled since the Nazi regime 60 years ago. And as it was in the days of the Nazis the secular media in every nation are responsible for inflammatory reporting of the Arab/Israeli conflict and fanning the flames of anti-Semitism. Political leaders who should know better are also laying the blame at Israel’s feet, which will bring the fierce wrath of YHVH down upon the nations. Perhaps the coming M.E. war & the resulting financial collapse is the means by which He will judge and destroy the nations.
If the signs are what we think they are, then time may be very very short brothers and sisters. Time to GET READY – time to prepare for the worst. We need to be prepared and ready so that we can function when everything is crashing around us. It will be the most greatest time in history to share the Gospel with Jews, Arabs and of course your own family, friends and work-mates. Dont wait – start now ! Begin to evangelise and warn as many people as you can. And please dont forget to pray for Israel – first. Pray for Aliyah, protection and the salvation of the Jewish people.
The Lord bless you as you bless Israel by standing in defense of her right to exist on the land given to the Jewish people by the God of Israel. Lets pray that Israel will turn back to their God. Do not be silent, but share this with your fellow Christians, share it with your pastors, and with anyone you have a chance to speak to. Lets also pray for that breakthrough to the Muslims, and please remember to pray for all of the soldiers in the IDF -they are defending and fighting for the Kingdom of God.
Shabbat Shalom …. David & Josie”
David Silver [david@out-of-zion.com]
“Come out of her My people!” Can you hear His voice? “Come out, come out! The great and terrible day is at hand!”
WOW. THIS IS AN ENCREDIBLE DREAM. TRUELY A WARNING
I believe what we are seeing here is the True Bride of Christ, Jesus at the helm safely protecting them on the Old raggidy Ferry Boat.
And the second ship representing the Apostate church. lead by satan into all abominible sins.
When I read this the first scripture that immediately came to my mind was
Luke 17
26 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day.
27 In those days, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat and the flood came and destroyed them all.
The people in the Cruze Ship are headed for destruction and the fires of hell unless they turn towards Christ.
Those under the guidence and protection of Jesus Christ are headed for eternal life with Christ.
I believe the message is also one of the Urgency of the hour for the cruze ship quickly disappeared, and so there was no more able to have the invitation to change ships. the dream said ” Suddenly and without warning ” the cruise ship, which was at a
distance, dropped downward and completely disappeared.
God bless, Lynn
Im just typing up a word which at the end also refers to a cruise ship. Its only in rough draft form altho online already at
.
http://www.propheciesfortoday.uk.com/listC.php?id=190
.
The end of both words are almost identical i.e “Suddenly and without warning, the cruise ship, which was at a distance, dropped downward and completely disappeared”.
.
Steve Dobbs.
P.S. Mine was refering to the increasingly apostate part of the church, which seesm to fit with this childs dream too it seems to me.
Both ships represent churches (1)Cruise ship is the apostate present day church we are admonished to “come out of”:2Co 6:17 Wherefore Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you,18 And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to me sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. The child called out for them to leave the ship for it was the wrong ark of protection; (2) Ferry: the true church. Lest you come as a child you shall not enter in. There are times when both the true and the apostate come together and the anointing breaks the yoke, but those times are drawing less and less and few and far between for He is sending a strong delusion [2Tim. 2:11]. The presence of the Holy Ghost is accutely missing in the majority of churches, yet the presence of smoke and mirrors and entertainment grows stronger and stronger. Not very entertaining to be secured with the cords of a rope [the scarlet rope of the Lord which weaves throughout the word from Genesis to Revelations] that brings each believer to his/her own cross-through purging of the dross. The apostate [cruise ship] builds on itself and its own strength, while the true [Ferry] builds on the completed-alive work of the Lord Jesus Christ “our hope of glory” May the Holy Ghost wake us to hide in Jesus………………..Rex
This dream is far more important than what we realize. One of my spiritual gifts is that of prophecy, and what the Lord has been telling me lately is that what is known as the church today, is all about to be destroyed; and what will arise afterward is the Kingdom, and a “gospel of the Kingdom. A Kingdom where we will be of one mind and of one spirit. But it is going to be birthed out of great testing and tribulation.
I believe that we should be preparing for a great famine, and also for great destruction of our intrastructure. Everything electrical will be fried, and rendered useless. That will include the banking institutions, so all those who have placed such validity in the prosperity gospel will in “one hour so great a riches are come to nothing.”
What I have seen looks like an arora borealis with multiple colors flying and setting on fire certain people, while others are burned, they yet survive; and following that is the armada of the Armies of Mt. Zion here to harvest the tares from the wheat and to gather them up to be burned.
Many people will flee to the churches only to be met with confusion and a lack of understanding of the events taking place. these events will bring the remnant to their knees, and out of that heart cry, will come the great latter day outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the “gospel of the Kingdom”, that will be preached in all the world, and then the end. Get ready indeed.
Yes! Yes! Yes! God bless you little sister. Out of the mouth of babes. At the end of the dream the large meteor rocks are the fire that is coming, and will be coming more and more, against the ferry boat while the cruise ship party’s on. We must be willing to ride no matter what. God showed me something a while back that was similar to what our little sister dreamed. It was that Jonah in the whale was a type of the end time church and that it will be a ruff ride. We (“church”) have disobeyed our calling and tried to go the other way. God has us in this end times in the belly of a whale. The rest of the church (cruise ship church) wants there to be no whale. Instead of the seaweed etc., they want a “submarine”. Live music, fancy rooms, video’s, nice dinning area, etc. They do not want the whale. No seaweed wrapped around your legs on this ride. Oh church, I hope you got your sea legs! And God bless you little sister for hearing God!
This is NOT a picture of the worldwide church and it’s does not apply to us/them. It is a personal prophetic dream about the congregation they are in and this little girl’s friends. Don’t read more into it than she was given just because you see parallels. God is directing her to HER local congregation and HER friends. She is to evangelize them and in particular the friend who wants to jump over onto the ferry boat. She has been told that her success will be meager but that does not exonerate her from trying. God has given her a task and her parents need to let her tell her talk to the pastor of their church and/or maybe the children’s pastor. Hopefully they have already done that because 6 weeks can be a really long time NOT to act on a prophetic directive.
Mary this family may not even be involved in the Modern Day Church structure. I don’t know but something to consider.
Blessings, Lynn
I once has a similar mental vision when I was in a church service. In it, the pastoral staff and all the main people of the church were together on the bridge of a pleasure boat, dancing wildly. They were enjoying themselves so much and had their backs to the destination, and the ship was headed for disaster. It was as if no one cared to look out for rocks ahead. I would characterise this church as one that panders to the flesh of man (ie. seeker-friendly).
Well said Mary
Dave
I believe the dream is of God, and represents the two churches we have in the world today. We have two flocks, both calling themselves the flocks of God. God will separate the sheep from the goats. Both types of churches claim to be God’s people, but God will separate them. Thanks for sharing the dream.
The Spirit within does testify to Mary’s comments. Now there may be many layers, as can be the case with God. Always be careful on shaping things to fit our own thoughts and ideas. But the girl is definitely being pointed to call others to safety. And there are many who are “eating, drinking, and being merry.
As I read the narrative of the young girl’s two ships’ dream and as I heard of the young 16 year old girl from California who attempted to sail around the world by herself in order to set a world’s record, the Lord revealed to me the following.
Ships/boats are representative of the churches who have become so entangled with the things/programs of this world that they are no longer led by God’s Holy Spirit but by man. In their attempts to set records of giving, attendance, salvations, healings, prophecies, etc., they have left their First Love and are doomed. Their attempts to set records by operating in the flesh have brought much ridicule and shame upon the name of our Lord Jesus. No longer is God’s word preached/taught in the power and demonstration of the Holy Spirit as it was in the book of Acts.
The winds/storms that destroy are happening because of disobedience and lack of true repentance in the body of Christ. However, God’s mercies are new every day; and, like the young girl who was rescued, though very worn and tired, He is using these storms to get our attention!
God wants us to be a Bride without spot, wrinkle or blemish who longs for the coming of the Bridegroom. Then, and only then, can our ‘ship’ sail safely home and the true celebrations begin!
Isaiah 61:10-11 and Luke 21:25-28
The Child’s dream seemed to be an echo what many preachers proclaim.
Hello all
I check Acts – I can find no such thing as children being prophets. I checked Joel – again no such thing. Perhaps it’s just my King James, but none of the references to children indicate that the children will do the prophesy thing. Perhaps someone can point me to the exact verse, so that I can check it out.
Secondly about the dream of the 2 ships. I submit that it is a nice story; typically the story of the gospel in fact. It’s about which path to choose. I would also submit that it is not prophetic. The dream is an indication that he dreamer has a good fundamental grasp of the gospel, and which path is the better path.
I would implore you all, that we do not make more of something than what is it. Let us be accurate, direct and honest, in our interpretation of the Bible, of prophecies, dreams, or anything else.
Greetings to all in the name of Jesus
I have no question that this is exactly the meaning of the two boats. It is a time to pray without ceasing and to cry out to our Abba,Father.God Bless all of you. We are living in the Days of Noah……..and it is just beginning.
This is definatly a picture of the church. It is dying and has been for a long time. People in most of them don’t have a clue that they need to get out……..and I believe this is because they are religious people and not children of God. Blinded by their “religion” they have no clue where they are headed. I have had a terrible time for the past three years with this knowledge trying to find somewhere to worship with others of the same mindset. I finally did although the Pastor is not baptized in the Holy Spirit and really doesn’t believe in it. I do feel that some of us that are ……..are they to see this happen when the time is right.
Yes, me again. This dream may be for this little girl and her friend, and this dream might not of been intended to be prophetic in nature. It may of needed to just be shared with her parents and not to any of us. But what ever the purpose that God intended for it to be, it is still such a great discriptive picture of what is happening in the “church” today. Yes this dream is about what path to choose. For salvation each one has a choice to make: to believe in Jesus or not. As far as the church it is not exempt from making choices. In Rev 3:20 it talks about Jesus standing at the door and knocking. He is bidding those on the other side, that if they hear His voice, to make a choice: to open the door or not. Who was he talking to? He was talking to believers. God bless this little girl and her family and God be with the church in these last days.
Ripster, I hope this will help you.
Acts 2
‘In the last days, God said, I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams
Not wanting to disrupt the dream.so please carry on.
God Bless, Lynn
it sounds so true to me, I had a friend who had a similar dream of the church splitting.
I think dreams and visions have many levels of meaning attached to them, all here can be seen as correct as the two ships can be equated to the Church.
I would like to share something that the LORD gave to me regarding the Church / the BODY of Christ / the BRIDE.
I was thinking about the BRIDE in REVELATION and the HOLY SPIRIT took me to the birth of JESUS and showed me that the same is happening with the Bride, as the HOLY SPIRIT over shadowed Mary and she conceived JESUS , so the HOLY SPIRIT will over shadow the Bride of CHRIST, the CHurch, and she will conceive a man Child. The Man Child will be taken up to the LORD and the Bride will be sent away for three and one half years where she will be cared for by GOD in the wilderness.
Satan will attack her but fail and in his anger will attack the remnant of the Church, those who still hold to the name off JESUS, and he will overcome them.
There are three distinct levels here and I believe they represent the individuals commItment to following JESUS both in action and also in developing their own personal relationship with HIM. I heard a statement once, it went like this: quote” there is a direct corrolation between how hard we hold onto a thing and how hard it is to let go, there is also a direct corrolation between how hard it is to die and how much you have died before, enjoy the good stuff , but don’t hold onto it to tightly” unquote. The world system is at enmity to GOD, and we should be seeking the KINGDOM of GOD and HIS righteousness rather than the things that are carnal of this world.
The childs dream is a wonderful view of the HOLY SPIRITS gentleness in that he showed her enough to gently nudge her in the right path, and should be taken as an admonishen to the Church.
May GOD BLESS her and continue to complete HIS work in her
It is time for the Church to return to it’s first love and seeking those things of GOD and things eternal in HIS KINGDOM.
Came across this which agrees with what “Harvestisripe “is saying and well worth looking at fro China
Cut and paste :-
http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asparticleid=6102&BA=1993&QR=116
Opportunities are opening up all is not doom and gloom …..yet
My apologies thiscis the video site
http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?articleid=6102&BA=1993&QR=116
Opportunities are opening up all is not doom and gloom …..yet
My spirit tells me this is indeed a prophetic warning. I was reminded of a dream my friend had years ago when we were all in a church that was getting “off message”., though we didn’t know it at the time. The full extent of error is often revealed only after you are delivered from the church. I will not call it apostate, but I will call it a church in error. To me one connotates gradual accidental deception not deliberation. Are apostate and error different?
At first there is confusion when God, by opening your eyes, puts you in a situation of staying with the error or leaving it behind but once you leave there is clarity. That is why it is so hard to leave the “party ship”. There is just so much confusion! At first you feel hurt over the events, then realize God delivered you and then you feel only thanksgiving, liberty and begin to connect with the true Body of Christ! Leaving the “party ship” is difficult mostly because of the relationships built there. When I woke up, I encouraged my friends to leave the ship but was made to feel like I was a bad person for “splitting the church”. To me, the church wasn’t the issue, my friends and relationships were the issue. If something is shown to you, you must warn others. My friends left, by the way. Jesus does say there will be a time when we must “come out from among her my people”.
This is exactly how my husband and I have been feeling and what God has been showing us for some time now. God bless the children!! I was just saying to my husband this morning how it really struck me that when Todd Bentley and his new wife first started the videos with Rick Joyner they had both stated how wrong the affair was and what they did was and how they KNEW they would reap some kind of consequences. I thought Lord, they really dont think your consequences will be very severe or they would not keep doing what they are doing, they have no fear or reverence of You at all! And it does seem that they are going on as business as usual, “having fun” at the conferences but it only seems that way. So it is with alot of the “church” now. I am so thankful and humbled that God has shown me the ferry in my life, thats where I want to be!
The allegory of the cruise party ship is more literal than some might expect – there have been many churches that we would consider to be in error that have been organizing and booking literal “Christian cruises” for their congregations. My old church is one – I think they called it “Catch the Wave” one year. If some think the cruise ship represents the world, it’s not surprising because the apostate church today is exactly like the world.
Stick to the scriptures please.This sounds very nice but for me it has not the “clout” of the Holy Spirit.The modern trends of prophetic pictures,dreams etc so called,tend to leave me unmoved whereas the Spirit is in the moving business.Surely when God speaks there will be no doubt about it and certainly no struggle to interpret.
I like your comment that “the Spirit is in the moving business”, Anthony – but remember this dream was given to a 12-year old girl, and not necessarily for the purpose of being given to the church specifically (although there’s nothing wrong in sharing it). I think we would have to ask her how she felt about the dream? – apparently it had enough impact she was moved to tell her parents about it. Kids don’t often bother to talk about their dreams unless it’s a real zinger, and usually they forget them. The interpretation doesn’t seem difficult at all – maybe even a child could figure it out. :)
I began having vivid dreams like these about 3 years ago. God spoke to people all through scripture by dreams, I don’t see why that would change now. The Holy Spirit gives wisdom to interpret them too. If I can’t understand one I receive, I pray for wisdom and wait patiently. This dream is simple and just gives confirmation to what we are seeing happen.
This dream gave me chills because I just wrote a post a few months ago about the prosperity preachers offering people a royal suite on the Titanic while Jesus was in the Lifeboat. Thanks for sharing it.
Watchful/Sondra, You make good points.No doubt if my child was involved i would be thrilled.Nevertheless i have a great desire for the authentic as far as the gifts of the Holy Spirit are concerned and therefore tend towards a less “charismatic approuch” if you follow my drift.
Don’t blame you for being wary Anthony! Definitely too much hocus pocus going on out there in some circles. Dreams are biblical though, Jesus speaks in parables, and I doubt this little girl hyped herself into one – but we do need to be careful not to make an idol out of anything and test all things.
Harvestisripe… Of all the comments here, your comments seem to be the most balanced and reflect a non-kneejerk response. Bless you heaps
God is truth, thus, God is against all falsehood.
The future is brightest for those most of holy truth.
Many churches are steeped in Premillennialisms,
especially Dispensationalism. Neither it, Preterism,
nor Higher Criticisms give us God’s eschatology.
Wrong doctrine weakens and leads to sinning.
Check out the “Pristine Postmillennialism” here.
If it is into any substantive Bible error, let me know!
Hundreds of essays, dialogue, and more are free here.
wordwon@hotmail.com
Ripster is correct: Acts and Joel do not say: “In the last days the children will prophesy.” Your sons and your daughters are not children. And it’s the old men who will dream dreams. The context for these words from Joel and Peter are Israel. They are one prophecy fulfilled in the Ekklesia – the Israel of God.
A dream is not a prophecy as such and a family is not a gathered body of Christ to whom it is spoken.
Let’s be careful to let children grow up being children.
Hebrews 12:26ff Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved,…
Mark 13:24ff [astronomical catastrophe]
But in those days, after that tribulation,
>the sun shall be darkened, and
>the moon shall not give her light, And
>the stars of heaven shall fall, and
>the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken (removed).
[The Second Coming/Parousia:] And then shall they see
>the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
["The Rapture"] >And then shall he send his angels, and
shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
After The Great Tribulation & these events there will be no earth nor physical creation as we know it now upon which any Millennium is possible. Thus the thousand years of Revelation 20 must happen before these events. After them comes Revelation 20:11. Read it!
And I saw a great white throne and him who sat on it, from whose presence the earth and the heavens fled away, and there was no place found for them. Then I saw the dead, small and great stand before the throne; and the books were opened…
Comments? Questions? wordwon@hotmail.com
Come, my people, enter into your rooms And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while Until indignation runs its course.
Isaiah 26:20
This is not about a church but indeed of the world.
As I read the above earlier, immediately this scripture was given. Please do not take the dream literally. The (friends) are of the world but will come out. Friends is symbolic of and represent the ones who come out. We all have people who we perhaps call friends that are of this world. They were called out and they obeyed the voice of the Lord. Many will late til the last minute before destruction comes.
To hide oneself , is to be hidden in Christ. He is our ARK OF SAFETY.
The Lord brought to mind 3 examples the blood being put on the posts of the doors so when the angel passed by , they were kept unharmed…
Noah went into the ark as God told him to do.
7 days before the Lord told Noah, in 7 days shall you enter the ark. They were kept, from the flood.
We all remember Pharoah when the Israelites were told to remain in doors as the slaying of all the egyptian newborns babies took place in the night.
I am reminded of a dream I had in 2008
0/11/08
In the dream-we were on a big white boat/ship out on the ocean. I looked up to the right, and saw huge gates setting on top of the ocean as I watched all of a sudden the gates opened and great big white rolling waves poured out as the gates opened and we were right in front of the gate.
As I watched the water rolling and pouring out. All these like brand new boats, cars, big type items-housing and all these type things were coming out with the water gushing past us, flowing down with the huge wave and I was pointing at the things passing by while on the ship them saying look at that. One looked like a limo-pontoon. All of a sudden I knew a big wave was coming and I thought OH NO no, its going to tip us or turn us over. Instead it went under us and lifted us way high,as into the sky. Gods people that are in the boat-”ark of safety” will not be affected by the economy but He shall lift His people up as the economy crashes.
A Study of The Effect of Eschatotogy on Revival by W. A. Ramsey
“When the emphasis of preaching centers on the personal life and victimhood of the individual, it misses the biblical Gospel emphasis by a country mile.”
Refocusing Our Sights on God’s Target
Leading Christian scholars and pastors are correctly concerned about the recently deteriorating state of evangelism among evangelical Christians. Of the 6 billion people on earth, conservatively, 5 billion are not saved as evangelicals traditionally have understood salvation. Adding to this distress, most evangelicals believe this age, except for a comparatively small remnant, belongs to Satan – that the Lord is to return soon and there will be no church-age triumph of righteousness.
Has this bleak, pessimistic, unbiblical eschatology created such distress to our sensitive evangelical souls that some seek a reconstruction of the traditional biblical view of God’s sovereignty, justice, and salvific purpose? Having forsaken biblical eschatology, unable to pray in faith for Gospel victory through the church in this age, are evangelicals turning now to universalism, inclusivism, and process theology to ease their distress over the 5 billion unevangel-ized souls? Many leaders have sounded a warning of an erosion of the traditional, biblical view of God as transcendent, omniscient, omnipotent, just, and unchangeably holy – the first imperative for biblical evangelism.
But is that the whole problem? This study, focusing on widespread, long-term, evangelism and revival, has identified a second imperative, which has been all but lost to evangelicalism for a century. It pleads for a reexamination of the sterile 20th-century evangelical eschatology and a biblical rethinking of God’s prophetic target, while documenting the following four startling propositions:
• When the 1st-century church held to the biblical outlook of future things, they had great power in the Gospel.
• When premillennialism and amillennialism arose as widespread doctrines in the second and third centuries,
the power and effectiveness of the early church declined.
• In the 18th and 19th centuries when many Christians returned to a biblical prophetic outlook, ‘the latter-day glow”
the Gospel again had power and a Great Awakening swept
over the Western world.
• Then, again, when God’s people forsook that biblical eschatology and returned to premillennialism 2 centuries later,
the revival power again declined.
These are the stubborn facts; we would do well to take heed.
10/11/08- lost the one= 1…. above
Come, my people, enter into your rooms And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while Until indignation runs its course.
Isaiah 26:20
In the above verse …. the one ship doomed, shall run its course…
Joel 2: 28“It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29“Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
This was dream from a girl of age 12….
So what does this verse speak of in the those days
(last days) and it is again written in the book of Acts 2:17
It says sons and daughters, it does NOT give an age.
AMEN Ron!!
God didnt exclude it to just old men to dreams young men to visions….
His body is given dreams and visions…..
just as in sons and daughters…. meaning both
male and female. He s talking above of the pouring out His Spirit on ALL who will receive.
You cannot segregate His body ,nor separate His body for we are all ONE, in Christ the Lord…
Well, at least one or two have the discernment to see this dream for what it is, the closest by Mary Ditmarr and Ron.
As already stated, this dream is as much about the child’s parents, and their spiritual leading of her, than is the dream itself. Let us all be praying for the entire family as they seek God’s direction and guidance.
I had a very similar dream in March 2003
I was on a fancy cruise ship with my husband Alan, there were lots of youth on this cruise ship also.The youth were partying like there was no tomorrow.
I could hear the radio going in the background, the weather reporter was bringing an urgent message that all ships on the ocean return to port as a massive storm was heading their way.
I tried so hard to get their attention but to no avail.
I was now in the water with my husband, the ship had disappeared, to my amazement my husband and I were laying on dense seaweed and so we were able to pull ourselves to shore.
On shore we found Hilary (Intercessor) setting the banqueting table.
“As is was in the days of Noah”… Noah heard the voice of the Lord and the Lord told him to build an ark for the salvation of him and his family…
Noah built the ark for 120 years, it was a huge achievement and was discovered a few years back, I watched a Christian documentary on it, and would have cost Noah alot if not all of his worldly wealth to complete…
Noah was a preacher of righteousness to the people of his day but anyone who did not believe Noah’s message, even the workers on the ark would have held him in derision and mocked him as he worked on a project and told them of the upcoming wrath of God against their sin as it had never rained up until that point in time.
The Lord spoke to Noah and Noah heard the Lord’s voice, he and his household entered the ark – in faith – and the Lord brought in all the animals which He had chosen to repopulate the earth, no one else believed the word of the Lord through Noah – no one out of all the inhabitants of the world… and then the doors were shut.
The fossil records show clearly that this great event occured exactly as the Lord records it in scripture. Jesus Himself refers to it.
I believe that every succeeding generation from Noah until the present time has had the same choice and I believe that the ark is Christ. Faith in Christ Jesus is our salvation. Those who have faith in Christ Jesus have been given this by God. They will make preparations to be separated from the world. They have no enduring interest in the world. They are not of this world. They are not clinging on to this world. They have their sights set on heaven.
Those who are clinging on to this world are not doing so out of faith in Christ. If anyone does not have faith in Christ they are still in their sins. They might believe that they are OK, they might even believe that they have faith in Christ but if not are “not of this world” then they do not have faith in Christ because His kingdom is not an earthly kingdom but a heavenly kingdom.
The Apostle Peter tells us that previously the Lord destroyed the then earth with water but this time He will destroy it with fire. The earth will be wrapped up like a scroll and the Lord will create something brand new. This is the Lord’s eternal perspective.
What is stopping the Lord from destroying the earth with fire right now? He is patient usward not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Knowing what kind of a God we serve one who is vengful and wrathful and who hates sin and ungodliness and who’s wrath still burns today against all the unrepentant sin of the world and yet knowing His heart that salvation has been freely offered in Christ, “Look and you shall live”, freely offered in Christ to all who will believe on the Name of the Lord, what sort of lives should we be living among the pagans who do not know Christ?
My brothers and sisters in the Lord God has not appointed us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation, let our hearts go out with compassion towards all those who do not know Christ that they also might be granted mercy to believe on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, them and their households.
Andrew,
yes and I would have to ponder much that as they mock Gods people today, they were No different than, carrying on in their ways while Noah prepared the ark for hundreds of years as commanded of God and they entered into the ark and obeyed while many onlookers drowned. Because why? —–> DOUBT AND UNBELIEF! Blessings bro!
I remember sharing with a lady one day and she just said, I will decide come judgement day where Im going.
I said, no, it will be too late than, she laughed.
No my time is for me now….
Please consider, This child is 12 years old, Jesus went to the temple and taught in the sancuary at 12 years of age and the word says he amazed those who herd him with his wisdom..
Please, do go and read the word concerning King Josiah.
God can and will use the children if fact we are told to become like them. having a child like faith.
I say a 10 year old child that had a vision while all were in worship of Jesus being in the room amongst us.
Some of the prayers and worship of this group of children aged 8-thru 12 would have amazed you.
I was born again at the age of 12.
Daniel was a very young man when he was taken to Nebacannazar and he prayed three times a day and had dreams and interpetated dreams.
And the scriptures say in the last days which started with Jesus,
Joel 2: 28
“It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on ALL mankind;
This Joel 2 is what Peter described was what was happening at Pentecost.
Acts 2
14 Then Peter stepped forward with the eleven other apostles and shouted to the crowd, “Listen carefully, all of you, fellow Jews and residents of Jerusalem! Make no mistake about this. 15 These people are not drunk, as some of you are assuming. Nine o’clock in the morning is much too early for that. 16 No, what you see was predicted long ago by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘In the last days,’ God says,
‘I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your young men will see visions,
and your old men will dream dreams.
18 In those days I will pour out my Spirit
even on my servants—men and women alike—
and they will prophesy.
I believe this dream by this 12 year old child is a prophetic dream and is also a warning to the body of Christ.
This is not chrismania, this is true christiany.
God Bless You All, Lynn
If people are concerned about the Lord giving a prophetic dream to a child, this girl is 12 – biblically the age of spiritual accountability in ancient Israel, the same age Jesus went to the Temple for his ‘Bar Mitvah’.
Does anyone know the age of Mary when she was told she would be overcome by the Holy Spirit and bear God”s son our Lord and savior.
I have heard thirteen or fourteen, not sure. she was very young.
God Bless, Lynn
I agree watchful and Lynn, to nit pick this dream apart by some is of the flesh.
The real issue is this, dreams, prophecy and visions given by and through the Holy Spirit are spiritually discerned. It is ONLY in the Holy Ghost whom bears witness within our natural man.
Therefore man without the Spirit of God cannot understand because it truly is foolishness to them…..
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 1 Corinthians 2:14
much love in Jesus, blessings sisters!
Correction, it is only in the Holy Ghost whom not only bears witness BUT also brings forth the understanding of….
It is really good to read and ponder all the comments, and see that most have discerned the “church” for what it is today.
But it also seems that this debate has turned somewhat into whose right and whose wrong, and have forgotten the great responsibility of this family to act on this dream, whatever “He” is telling them its meaning.
Again, let us all please pray for this family as they look to the Lord for discernment.
To Mario & his precious daughter–I thank you! And to Frank for posting this word, thank you . Here’s a word that the Lord shared w/ me in 1984 that I would like to share w/ my brothers & sisters of the remnant. I just love the amazement of God’s eternal Spirit as He speaks thru the ages, teaching us, warning us & guiding us. This word was given to me before the multitude of distractions which abound today…how much more we need to spend time in the secret place & determine to be delivered daily from the distractions by God’s eternal grace!
FOLLOW THE NARROW WAY–
Many are the distractions, many are the distractions to My people–to My children who are on the broad way. For on the broad way there is much room to do many things–to turn to the left & to the right, to speak much w/ many other children, to have discourse & discuss many things, consuming the time & wasting the time instead of spending time w/ Me & waiting before Me. Seemingly, the distractions appear to be good–a good thing, a good work, a christian work, but it is nothing more than a waste of time & a subtle deception of the enemy. Contrarily, on the narrow road–on the narrow way, there is neither room to turn to the left or to the right but only room enough to go straight ahead, to walk on, to press in & thru, to keep the eyes straight ahead. There is no room to turn to the left or to the right! There is only room for inner strength & an operating mind to be strict–to be exact–to be holy–to be pure–to be zealous in being committed to the Lord–not to others, not to attractions & pulls & desires–but to the desire of the Lord unto His good pleasure.
Thank you to Mario & his precious daughter. Here’s a word I’d like to share w/ the brothers & sisters of the remnant. This is the continuation of the NARROW WAY b/ accidentally clicked on Post Comment. Sorry…
I saw in the spirit two different paths, one was narrow & the other was broad. There was one person on the narrow path & this person had no room to do anything else but to move forward w/ his face set as a flint, w/ determination, w/ effort, w/ a single eye, w/ self-denial, w/ the path of the cross, w/ a committment to the Lord. This way seems hard, but it is the satisfying way, both to the person & to the Lord Jesus Christ.
I saw many on the broad way & they had much room to move around in all directions & seemed to have no awareness of committal or of the preciousness of time or of danger or any such thing. Neither did they have the single eye or intensity for the Lord as they were not aware of Him. Their concentration seemed to be on one another & they were excited & busy w/ their talk & christian work. This way appears exciting & active (& in the flesh, it is) but it is really dissatisfying both to the people & to Our Lord. He is a Jealous God for His own. (the end of the word)
My present comment is that there are so many more distractions abounding these days & also many more signals of impending danger & the workings of satan & his kingdom so very blatant. There’s this sense of being buckled up all around me & looking w/ an intensity circumspectly as the Lord guides my/our every step against all manner of deception b/c the earth is shrouded w/ the darkness of deception from the prince of the power of the air. How very blessed those of us are who truly belong to the King of kings & know Him & love Him & continue to yearn for more of Him as He showers us w/ His grace! I bless His name –He is truly the Beloved of our souls!
I’m sorry again…I meant thank you to Andrew Strom…I was also reading from the scottish warriors site & made the mistake of thanking Frank from that site. :-)
Harvestisripe – Any young woman was eligible to be married after they began their womanly cycle. So it has been conjectured that Mary was between the age of 12 to 14.
Scripture does not exclude children from hearing the voice of God ( as has been covered above) and many children do. Ron says ‘dreams are not prophesy as such’. It seems he does not understand what prophecy is.We may recieve a vision for example , which we interpret into words. So it is with dreams, which are ‘visions of the night season’. Prophecy is hearing the’ voice ‘of God, not necessarily in words, but in whatever form which God may communicate. Joseph (son of Jacob) is a classic example of dreams, as is Joseph the husband of Mary. There are so many.
I believe this dream is of the Lord. The symbolism is clear to me .
Boats are sea vessels. Water speaks of the spirit.The sky has similar meaning. A ferry conveys from one place to another. A specific purpose or spiritual journey with a goal. The ferry was old.(The word which we have heard from the beginning.) The ‘captain’ is Jesus. One who is kind and strong. One we can trust.
The cruise ship is a more contemporary development i.e.not from the beginning, but more recent.It also conveys people on a spiritual journey (the sky) but it has no goal. It usually finishes up where it started. It is a people pleaser.They seem to be going in the same direction but their end is sudden.The captain has evil eyes symbolising that they are not in good hands
The dream is not for her alone.It is only natural that she would tell her parents of it and they would tell others. She is young enough not to have invented such a dream and it can be trusted.
The Lord has been showng me through visions over a period of 30 odd years that I was to leave the Church.I did not fully understand because He did not say it in so many words and it was left to my interpretation. I talked to others, who listened, but whilst they agreed that there was something wrong with the church, they did not take it seriously and so neither did I. Like sheep! Each successive vision was clearer than the last, though.
Finally about 5 years ago I had a vision in which I saw an ocean liner sailing down stream in the Auckland Harbour.I saw a man suddenly jump over the railing at the bow of the ship. I gasped with horror at the danger this presented. He could be hurt by the fall from such a height and possibly chewed up by the propellors. What a dangerous thing to do. The man looked familiar . I wondered if it was me. What did it mean?
Shortly afterwards events occurred at church which caused me to pray about leaving the church I was attending. The Lord told me to leave. I did so but I felt upset about my situation and wondered what to do next.I was reminded of the vision. I realised that I had just fulfilled it, but wait! There was more understanding to come. That ship did not just represent my church. It was too big. It was an international travelling ship.It represented the church at large. Suddenly all the previous visions came flooding back to me confirming my understanding . I could not understand how I could have been so slow to obey.I received a further vision in which I was swimming, well in front of the ship , towards a wharf. I was comforted by the knowledge that I would finish up safely ahead without the support of the church.
I prayed about why this needed to happen. I saw in another vision the ship going past the wharf and further ahead, in line with the ships line of travel , a huge pile of blocks in the sea, as high as the ship itself. What was it? A blockage. The ship was headed straight for it.
I do not know what specifically will take place , but I have had many dreams about the evils of the ‘church system’ and its demise.It has become just like the world.
I have been out of the ‘institutionalised church’ ever since.It is not a safe place to be. Neither is it God’s house. His home is in the hearts of people. There are many changes to come. He is re-building His house. ‘Church’ is simply a word, used, abused and misunderstood. We are the ‘church’ in a sense, but more accurately the ekklesia – the called out ones. Don’t be caught up with the man -made teachings and traditions which do not lead to God but simply make us ‘religious.’
‘You leave the commandment of God and hold fast the tradition of men’ Mark 7:8
I am glad this girls dream was published. It is true. He who has ears to hear,listen! Trust the ferry captain. He will get you safely to your destination.
TERRIFIC! I applaud Mom for sharing this dream. It is right on the mark. May God raise up prophetic warning to the church, as in Rev. Chapter 1-3, warning the churches. These are the last days, and the prophetic call is going out. This little girl had a prophetic dream, and the bible says for the prophets to judge. Those with Spiritual eyes will see and hear what the Spirit of God is saying, as we indeed repent for the deceived and wayward bent on making the church seeker friendly, thinking they can lure souls to Jesus with out the price of repentance and pure Truth. I pray the prophetic voices will take courage and shout it from the housetops.
God bless you for giving and posting the prophecy. I take courage from it.
Donna, That is a great word! Satan comes as an angel of light, not with two horns and a pitchfork. He is the pied piper. He is crafty, seducing, subtle. He does not care how seemingly innocent the distractions are, as long as they work, and we do not seek the face of the Lord and wait upon Him, and walk with Him throughout the day. One of satan best laughs at christians is when he tacks the name ministry on a distraction project.
If we do not do the one thing that is needful, all else is worthless. We have no strength if we don’t wait upon the Lord. The worst scenario would be to stand before the Lord someday and hear Him say, “Depart from me, I never knew you”. SATAN IS STILL EMPLOYING THE SAME TRICKS THAT HE USED IN THE BEGINNING, SAYING TO US, HAS GOD REALLY SAID? SEEK THE LORD WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND, SEEK MY FACE, SEEK ME EARLY,WAIT UPON THE LORD, COME BEFORE HIS PRESENCE WITH SINGING, ENTER HIS GATES WITH THANKSGIVING IN YOUR HEARTS AND ENTER HIS COURTS WITH PRAISE, IN HIS PRESENCE IS FULLNESS OF JOY, HUMBLE YOURSELF UNDER THE MIGHTY HAND OF GOD, DRAW NEAR TO GOD AND HE’LL DRAW NEAR TO YOU, THE EFFECTUAL FERVENT PRAYER OF A RIGHTEOUS MAN AVAILS MUCH, ENTER INTO YOUR CLOSET AND SHUT THE DOOR, COME UNTO ME, CALL UPON ME, SEEK ME WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART, SOUL, MIND, AND STRENGTH. YOU WILL NOT SURELY DIE! GOD IS RICH IN MERCY, YOU GOT YOUR TICKET, THAT IS ALL YOU NEED, JESUS DID IT ALL , HE DOESN’T WANT YOU TO DO ANYTHING, RELAX, GRACE WILL COVER YOU ALL DAY, ALL MONTH, ALL YEAR, AS YOU GO YOUR OWN WAY, DOING YOUR OWN THING, THINKING YOUR OWN THOUGHTS, SPEAKING YOUR OWN WORDS. BESIDES, LOOK AT ALL OF THE OTHER CHRISTIANS, YOU DON’T SEE THEM FASTING AND PRAYING AND GETTING ALL RELIGOIUS, THAT JUST WORKS, AND YOU ARE SAVED BY FAITH ALONE!
YOUR JUST A SINNER SAVED BY GRACE, WHEN YOU GET TO HEAVEN, THEN YOU WILL BE A SAINT LIKE PETER AND PAUL AND JOHN THE BAPTIST. WHEN GOD SAID LET THE FILTHY BE FILTHY STILL, HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FILTHY NON-CHRISTIAN SINNERS, NOT THE CHRISTIAN SINNERS LIKE YOU. RIGHT BEFORE YOU ENTER THE GATES INTO THE HOLY CITY THERE WILL BE A GIANT WASHTUB, SO YOU CAN GET YOU ALL CLEANED UP, AND THE ANGLES WILL BE GIVING YOUR WEDDING GOWN A QUICK CLEANING AND IRON OUT THOSE EMBARRASSING WRINKLES FOR YOU TOO! WHEN GOD SAID TO WASH YOURSELF WITH THE WASHING OF THE WATER OF THE WORD, HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WORD OF THE PASTOR ONCE A WEEK. WHEN GOD SAID TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING, HE MEANT DOWN AT THE WORK OUT CENTER. CAN YOU IMAGINE TRYING TO ENTER THE HOLY CITY WITHOUT A BUFF BODY? THAT’S WHAT HE MEANT WHEN HE SAID TO PUT ON STRENGTH! I SUGGEST THAT YOU JUST JUMP OUT OF BED IN THE MORNING, HIT THE SHOWER, HIT THE BREAKFAST TABLE, GET THE YARD LOOKING BEAUTIFUL, AND THE CAR, AND THE HOUSE. IF YOU CAN’T GO TO THE BEACH OR THE LAKE, MAYBE YOU COULD JUST RUN SOME ERRANDS, DO SOME SHOPPING, GO OUT FOR LUNCH WITH SOME FRIENDS, THEN MAYBE A MOVIE. THE LORD WANTS YOU TO BE HAPPY AND HAVE FUN, YOU PROBABLY WILL EVEN HAVE 70 OR SO YEARS TO DO ANYTHING YOU WANT, THAT IS HOW MUCH GOD LOVES YOU. ALL THAT TALK ABOUT LIFE BEING SHORT, LIKE A VAPOUR, THAT WAS A FEAR TACTIC OF JESUS. FEAR IS OF THE DEVIL, WE ARE ONLY TO REVERENCE GOD.
THAT WAS A BOO BOO WHEN THEY PUT IN THE BIBLE TO OFFER YOUR BODY AS A LIVING SACRIFICE, HOLY, AND ACCEPTABLE UNTO THE LORD. JESUS SACRIFICE DID IT ALL, AND NO ONE CAN BE HOLY EXCEPT HIM. REMEMBER, YOU ARE JUST A SINNER, SAVED BY GRACE, YOU ARE NOT A SAINT. THE LORD IS COMING BACK WITH 10,000 OF HIS SINNERS! WON’T THAT BE A SITE TO SEE? SO BASICALLY FRIEND, MY ADVICE TO YOU IS THAT WHEN YOU READ THE SCRIPTURES, ASK YOURSELF FIRST OF ALL, DID GOD REALLY MEAN THAT? I’M TELLING YOU EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE OKAY? I’VE BEEN AROUND AWHILE, I KNOW HOW THIS THING WORKS. RELAX, ENJOY, LIVE AND LET LIVE! THIS WORLD HAS SO MUCH TO OFFER YOU, YOU’LL HAVE ALL OF ETERNITY TO DO THAT SPIRITUAL STUFF WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE! BY THE WAY, HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT APPLE?
Over 20 years ago another lady had a very similar dream.
Her name was Joan Boney of Jesus Ministries from Dallas, TX and in her dream she sees a very glamorous cruise ship full of people enjoying themselves. But God tells them to get off that ship and get into life boats where there are no luxurious comforts and food is limited. Some obey and from the cold, lonely, uncomfortable boats they can see the ship still full of happy partying people with plenty of food, warmth, and fellowship. Then the large ship is struck with calamity and begins to sink. Some of those people swim over to the life boats and try to climb in but God says they cannot get in because they will upset the life boats and cause destruction to those already safe.
I don’t know what has happened to Joan Boney or Jesus Ministries, but everything she said over 20 years ago is still viable.
Amen “Harvey Rosieur” I left the “institutionalized church” around the end of 2004 / beginning of 2005… I had been worship leading with my wife in a mainstream pentecostal church which was seeking revival, in fact it was in our region well known to be the church most seeking revival, that is why we went there in the first place.
What though did we find? It was actually not seeking the true revival that our hearts sought, one that was directed and controlled by the Holy Spirit alone. There were are manner of man made rules and conditions placed on the “members” of this church which quenched the true working of the Holy Spirit of God. It came to a point where to remain there would have been spiritual death. I had no choice to leave and God brought a godly Maori brother to us to prepare us for this occurence and he shared an amazing picture which the Lord had given him which I’d like to share now.
He said that the Lord was like a prince and that His Bride had been prepared but needed to go on a journey with the Prince, the Prince was riding on a horse but the Bride had to walk behind. The Prince headed out into the desert. The Bride was confused but because of her love for the Prince she followed. The Prince would halt periodically to motion her forward and she would continue toward the Prince. Finally the Prince was so far away she could just see His silhouette across on a far sand dune. She continued to stagger forward, her feet having been burnt from the heat of the sun, and finally she collapsed and died. The Prince turned around and rode back and gently picked up her body and placed it on his horse. That was the end of the picture.
As he shared this word the Lord gave me a revelation that He was calling me out into the desert, it was in fact the next day that I realised, as I led worship at our church, that this was no longer where the Lord wanted me to be. I knew that I had to leave.
I remember telling Ken, the godly Maori brother, the next day after the service, which Ken had also attended (as he was visiting our town at the time) that I was ready to leave “the hype, the feelings and the experiences” and go out into the desert to experience true faith in God.
As I told him, we were sitting in his car outside our local fish and chip shop, the presence of God filled the car – it was an experience that I will never forget (and one that I was not seeking) and he put his arm around me and said, “the Father is here”, far out even as I type this this tears come back, I remember that moment of feeling so surrounded by the love of God and I just sat in it for quite a few minutes, then we went home.
What followed over the next few years was very difficult. The Christian school which I attended in my youth we had wanted our daugther Hannah-Grace to attend when she turned 5, my grandfather along with another man had the vision for this school back in the 1960′s. Even so, because there had been certain members of the board of this school who opposed my marriage to my wife – without giving any reason – and because we no longer belonged to a church, my daughter was refused entry into this shcool while my sister’s daughter of similar age was granted entry because she was still in the church system.
This was the first persecution we felt, this led us to shift towns (from Christchurch up to Napier and then Kerikeri) to try to start again and give our children a good upbringing outside the “church system”.
We met one likeminded believer up in Kerikeri who we had fellowship with in the Lord who shared where we were at with the Lord and this was precious.
We then went to Dubai and experienced the financial crash and now my wife and our children are back in NZ while I’ve remained working overseas to pay off my personal loans. The Lord has used all these experiences to accomplish the word which Ken shared with us.
I was chatting to my wife on Skype a couple of days ago and she said, “All this has been necessary” it was a blessing to my soul. The Lord still has us on the same wavelength. We realise that what He is doing is preparation for what is ahead. What He is going to use us to perform.
I don’t know why I’ve felt led to share all that other than to say I really felt touched by the little sisters dream and feel that the Lord is separating those who are His from those whom He will turn to and say, “Depart from me I never knew you”… “Those whom the Lord loves He disciplines”… I take this dream as a warning from the Lord to “Choose ye this day whom ye will serve”… as for me and my house – by the grace of God – we will serve the Lord…
I already gave my interpretation in another thread when Mario first posted the dream, but it is indeed about the false babylonian worldly church (the party cruise ship) which will be judged and the true church of the Lord Jesus Christ (the ferry boat) made up of called out believers from all over the world.
God is saying “come out” of the false and into the true.
Yes, the church is apostate. Yes, she is cruising towards destruction. These facts are beyond doubt. Anyone with any prophetic discernment can see this. My caution, however, is that we must avoid finger-pointing and an accusatory spirit. Time and time again, those who correctly discern someone else is in sin, and relish pointing to that fact, end up falling in that same sin. Congressman Souder from my home state of Indiana is a recent example.
I believe God’s heart is broken over the state of the church. He would reach out to her, and heal her, but she would not go. Let us, while day remains, keep on working to reach those on the ferry boat. If even one has been saved, it will have made an eternity of difference.
If we have Christ in us the hope of glory we know which boat were on, and which church were in, either the church of Christ or the synagogue of satan there’s no in between. If we know souls on that other ship, even those we don’t,lets throw them the life line of Christ,If thats us on the Holy boat ,Sons of God, Gods house not built with human hands but by Gods, His holy temple washed clean once and for all buy the spotless blood of Jesus, also if were baptized in the Holy Spirit endued with power from on high for rescuing lost soul or ones who slipped back in to the fire.We should be shedding tears for them. Seems like were waiting on God but actually He’s waiting on us to get going, to use what Christ has given to us, HIS HOLY SPIRIT.Myself I believe I quench the Holy Spirit when I don,t let Him use my lips like he wants to, sad isn’t it. I printed out all the verses in the bible with the word faith I came up with 13 pages with faith mentioned 192 times some of the verses say God is displeased in people that have no faith, Deuteronomy 32:20. like so did Jesus in the boat with his disciples on there little faith. but commends men and women in the gospels on using their faith and they were not even saved yet, they weren’t even born again. I think of Caleb who said we are well able to take the land, he knew his God.Do we know ours?We need to get going church. Jesus shed his precious blood for those people on that perishing boat He desires that none would perish And so should we, amen. Jesus did not wait for revival He was revival and so is his church. amen.
We need to pray for our brothers and sisters to have eyes to see and ears to hear. Get back to the true Word. Stop depending on the man in the pulpit for truth. A man can lead you astray because he himself is deceived and believes he is telling truth. There is only one place to get truth and that is in the Word. I went through a period of time when I was angry at organized churches but now in horror I pray for them. I have not been in church now but on occassion for 10 years and am closer in my walk with God than ever. It took that long for me to get deprogrammed and reprogrammed to right thinking. I hold nothing against the church but realize it has been infiltrated in large part by the enemy. It is a dangerous place to be if you do not know the Word for yourself. There are still some good churches, however. Don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The only way you know if its a good, sound church is if you know the Word. “Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet.”
Amen “grant” I hear your heart in your post… when the Holy Spirit puts something on our hearts to do we must do it… I’ve experienced this a number of times where His attention is fixed on a certain activity and I get a sense of urgency to perform what He is asking me to perform… I also get a desire to perform what He wants me to perfom and a freedom to perform it… In this state when I perform it it is accomplished… this is a state of revival for that particular activity for that particular time… I think there’s a fine line between people saying they are waiting for revival and following the clear promptings of the Holy Spirit for day to day present actions which need undertaking…
I personally am waiting for revival and yet at the same time I’m living my life and endeavouring to be obedient to the leadings which the Holy Spirit gives personally to me at various times and places…
This word demands a response, if anyone can read this word and not feel that it demands a response then the Holy Spirit hasn’t given them discernment to see what is going on here… What is going on here is that so many who believe they belong to Christ or are “OK” or “out-of-danger” are actually “asleep in the lap of the devil”, they are “Not OK”, they are in danger and they are going to hell laughing and screaming (false happiness) all the way…
There is only one way to enter into salvation and that by “repentance towards God and faith in our Lord, Jesus Christ”…
As the song I used to sing as a child at Sunday School said, “one way God said to get to heaven, Jesus is the only way” and not a false Jesus or an occultic Jesus but a “behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world” Jesus…
Pride, rebellion and selfishness (leading to coveteousness) are the root sins which need to be broken along with bitterness (the result of not getting our own way) and lust/coveteousness (wanting what the Lord hasn’t given us) – these are the things we need to repent from when we come to Jesus to be covered by His Blood…
What we need to be aware of is that He will not let these things remain in our lives if He becomes the Lord of our lives, He will remove them, systematically, methodically, remove them…
We are surrendering to a Lord who takes seriously the sanctification process, He will replace all this sin with His own character of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, meekness, faith and self-control… Love is not seek seeking…
If we’re on the old, rickety boat with Jesus as the Captain we will suffer the loss of all things temporal but receive the riches and beauty of God’s House for eternity…
If we want to remain on the slick boat with the enemy as the captain then we will reap only temporal pleasures now but eternal destruction in the lake of fire and brimestone along with the devil and his demons.
It really is that simple… flee from the wrath to come…
Correction “love is not self seeking”…
I absolutely believe this is a prophetic dream, and it will come to pass. The church is be prepared to be judged, and it is nothing more then a sinking ship.
I was never into cruises on ships in the open sea, I will take the ferry and trust in the LORD all the way! Thank GOD! GOD bless you and your little girl =)
looks like I cant post
if your daughter is having dreams like this i would tape it on a tape recorder and take it to your minister to give an intrepretation- some time we can influence our children with the topics we discuss and this comes across in there dreams…if it is prophetic let God confirm it- it just seems that every one is looking at it through there own theological point of view and are reading into it what they want to see..i would encourage you to seek out a person who has a gift of interpretation of dreams and it should stand alone on its own merit.Children can be very impressionable…as I read the dream I could not help but to think that the parent wrote this and it sounds like they had the dream..it had allot of emotion in it so therefore felt influenced to me…just my observation…we can influence our children greatly….I would pray that another child in the church would have the same dream or she would dream it again…isnt that what happened in the scripture they keep on having dreams of the same content of topic…skinny cows and the wheat….jospeh story two dreams in a row same message.etc. blessings lulu
All will say to this is Amen. God has been telling us, exactly what will happen. Even through children.
The one ship, were she was on,
was a raggedy old ferry boat. Instead of seatbelts people were
strapped to their old seats with rope. There was a captain on the
ferry who was kind yet strong and firm. While telling everyone to
hang on tightly, and that the ride would be tough and not an easy
ride, he kept assuring them with a great confidence that he would
bring them safely to their destination.
The other ship was a fancy cruise ship.
end quote of little girls dream:
Something the Lord keeps bringing to mind is
the appearance of each ship and this thought is not leaving me alone last night or this morning…..
As I went to read in Isaiah 53 this morning,
this:
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isaiah 53:2
That old raggedy ship doesnt attract the world. Nor us if we were of this world. Carnal/fleshly minds are drawn to new bigger and better even including the apostate. Having to give up their fleshly desires of this world rather than become born again and have to walk the straight road in Christ is not a desire most of this world chooses. that means giving up self and selfish desires.
It doesnt appeal to living a holy life and having to turn from their carnal ways. Iheir focus is on the outward appearance of many things, while the Lord is on the inward appearance.
Its like a dream a lady had years ago. I think this is
a good example of what Im trying to express here.
In the dream, my husband and I were in the backseat of a car. Her and her husband were driving.
They were taking us to our house.
As she turned right onto a road with houses on both sides , the grass was all dead in the yards, until the came to the last one on the right. the grass was plush and green, fertile, rich. The house was in a shape of a Rock, and she said the Rock wasnt attractive and it looked like it needed fixed up and dropped us off.
They went across the street and entered into a big nice, fancy house. As they walked in it was full of hollywood stars and famous people. Having fun, living it up.
They were in a christian band, however in the dream, they ended up going the way of the world. As she continued to watch, she realized she was in the wrong house, with the wrong people…she woke up trying to find her way out of that house. Was it to late I do not know. Because in real life we parted ways years ago. This dream even shows the separation of parting ways. We went to the Rock as they went back into the world.
Amen, Sheepkinz, I’m blessed reading so many good posts this morning…the way of the Lord’s disciples is humble, lowly, unappealing to all outward appearances, reproached by the world, and we tend to look like lambs being led to the slaughter, there is to be no serving of Mammon and idolatry, in contrast to the decadence and worldly delights of the cruise ship – which is a deception. The bible talks about the deceitfulness of wealth – it is a deception.
Hi Watchful… me too:)
I too am encouraged!!!
BTW:)you still remind me every time which is a good thing of the Lord in His word, your name , “watchful”
The almond spoken in Jeremiah -almond means watchful-the Lord sits on His word. He watches over His word and He performs His word!
The root from the Hebrew word shaked – almond – is the word shoked, meaning to watch diligently or to wait.
In Jeremiah, Israel’s watchman, it’s used as wordplay. The LORD asks him, what he sees.
“An almond (shaked) tree-branch”, he answers.
The LORD replies, “I WILL WATCH (shoked) OVER MY WORD TO PERFORM IT.”
concerning Jeremiah Chapter 1
Praise God for reminders even as such as your username:) WATCHFUL and the Lord bringing to remembrance His word!
much love in Jesus!
There have been many good and discerning comments. I feel the Lord would have us really consider the lowlyness of the ferry boat. How many of us are willing to live as servants of all or very simply as a multi membered community of faithful ones? It is good to be completely “out of the system” religious, economic, etc. for the Word does teach seperation and Holiness unto the Lord.
We all are on one level or another still in Babylon until it/she falls. Will that be good news or bad news when there is no electricity or monitary system or church assembly on the corner?
We all should have understanding that the “church” will be restored to the first century example of worshipping and breaking bread house to house and sharing all that we have…as well as enduring great persecution (bringing forth His GLORY, Matt 24).
I wrote a message a long time ago “Does Prosperity or Persecution bring Perfection? Whether we are talking of the world or the church doesn’t matter form we must not serve two masters on any level but store our treasures in Heaven. I have taught for over 25 years on the Tribulation and how we need to perpare our hearts to endure to the end.
Grand Old Mansion
Every once in awhile the Lord visits me in my sleep.
my dream:
There was this grand old mansion that had seven floors. I was made to reside in this place, to live there. This grand old house was in disrepair and falling apart everywhere. As I visited all the floors in this house, and visited the different rooms, it had occurred to me that this place must have been very, very beautiful to behold at one time…but it was dirty now, and falling apart.
People were living in various parts of this falling down rickety old house, but the Lord directed a certain of them to a certain wing in which they would be safe from the falling in parts of this house.
I myself am a carpenter and a Construction Engineering Technologist (diploma) in real life. In the dream I got to go and visit the various places where people had attempted repairs to this grand old structure.
It seemed that there was an extensive amount of repairing going on, but those doing the repairing of this building were not skilled enough to do the massive amount of structural and building envelope repairs needed…and these repairs they did were about to collapse in on them (The Lord says: except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.).
The Lord impressed upon me that if I dwell in this house where He instructs me to, that I will be safe from the coming collapse. ( I assume the Lord is about to do a work)
This building was a grand structure in its beginning, bigger and more beautiful than any that had been built to that day, and it is about to undergo some major changes, so that its latter end will be greater than its beginning.
…from the REMNANTS OF THE RUINS it shall rise, more beautiful and with such a glorious splendor that words can only merely describe but not articulate it to its depth of what it shall become.
Most of this grand old building is about to be demolished and collapsed in on itself except the core part (remnant) of which I told you about, that if I dwell there I will be safe; for all that can be shaken will be shaken when the wrecking ball begins.
And so it begins.
I believe this work where the Lord said: “I WILL DO A NEW THING” is: He is about to rebuild his church (the body of Christ) from the ground up…from the remnants of the ruins which must come first. (great falling away?)
Events on Earth are soon to take place that are going to cause the Bride to finally come together, and it will be the Lord’s doing that does it. Denominational barriers are going to come crashing down as Christians begin to find common ground and begin to pull together in a global revival…
To some, men’s hearts will fail them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
In the midst of the coming global chaos and tribulation, there will be a revival and a move of the Spirit of God, such as has not been seen to this day, no not even in the beginning…for God shall pour out of His Holy Spirit upon the Body of Christ to strengthen and purify/beautify the Bride of the Lamb…that she may be pure and holy – and without spot or blemish, or any such thing, and her gown shall be as white as snow…many will turn to the Lord during this time in a global revival.
The Lord Jesus is going to send skilled labor into the field…His carpenters and engineers etc., of which He Himself is the Chief building engineer. This structure that is going to go up will be built according to His specifications and design, and no one will be allowed to deviate with their own ideas and repairs, but will follow only His design. The glory of the latter end of this house will be greater than the former.
…it’s coming.
Concerning the house of God:
For thus says the LORD of hosts, Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land.
“I will shake all the nations; and they will come with the wealth of all nations, and I will fill this house with glory,’ says the LORD of hosts.
‘The silver is Mine and the gold is Mine,’ declares the LORD of hosts.
‘The latter glory of this house will be greater than the former,’ says the LORD of hosts, ‘and in this place I will give peace,’ declares the LORD of hosts.” Haggai 2:6-9
I believe the time for this vision to come to pass is even at the door. There is a remnant, whom God is calling out into the wilderness, whom He has chosen and set apart for this time that is before us. There will be a great falling away from God, of all of humanity (Adam’s race)which includes some of the fractured parts of that which is also known as the church.
I do not believe that the R/C church is in the way of the Lord at all, and neither is most of what is known as established denominations, Protestant, evangelical or otherwise.
The collapse of the Grand Old Mansion is imminent, the judgement has gone out, because of what man in his vanity has done to it. They have turned intimate relationship with the Father into empty dead lifeless religion, and the Lord will collapse this old house now (except for the core part or remnant)and will rebuild His Church from the remnants of the ruins from the ground up. This occurs during the time of the Great Tribulation which we must go through as a body…
During the time of unprecedented persecution against Christians, and in the midst of all the global chaos (Great Tribulation), there will be a revival and a move of the Spirit of God, …such as has not been seen to this day, no not even in the beginning…for God shall pour out of His Holy Spirit upon the Body of Christ …to strengthen and purify/beautify the Bride of the Lamb, that she may be pure and holy – and without spot or blemish, or any such thing…and her gown shall be as white as snow….many will turn to the Lord during this time in a global revival which is the rebuilding of the “Grand Old Mansion” of which it is also written:
The glory of this latter temple shall be greater than the former,’ says the LORD of hosts. ‘And in this place I will give peace,’ says the LORD of hosts.” Haggai 2:9
a “Great Revival” is coming to the earth, and it comes during the “Great Tribulation”
- Ephesians 6:12 will end for us who are the body of Christ… it will end for us…and here’s why:
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. Rev 12:7-10
(Meaning satan does not get permission to accuse/tempt/harass anymore) Ephesians 6:12 which says: For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[a] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
They (devils) will no longer be in heavenly places; therefore, Ephesians 6:12 ends for us who are the body of Christ!!!! And this is why it is written: “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come!!
….
But since satan can no longer tempt, spiritually harass and accuse the brethren, because he has been thrown down, he persecutes the Bride through the hands of those who receive and take the mark of the beast…and the Bride’s saints and prophets are sent to martyrdom at the hands of those whose names are not written down in the Lamb’s book of life.
…but the Lord is with them in their hour of trial, and the strength of the Holy Spirit sustains them and fills them with an unprecedented supernatural calm, peace and comfort, there will be no fear of dying for the saints, as the Holy Spirit will sustain them.
Remember the stoning of Stephen, at his death, how he saw heaven opened up and Jesus sitting at the right hand of the throne of God…love from the Spirit of God filled his heart and in his dying breath he said “lay not this sin to their charge” Imagine, if he had not earnestly prayed that, would we have the Apostle Paul?
These saints overcome satan and his antichrist by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they are full of the Holy Ghost, and they love not their lives unto death.
Nazi style internment camps and holocausts will return, this time it will be global, even as it written, as Christians are summarily put to their deaths in the camps, just as the Jews were during WWII. It is all that satan has left before he is thrown into the bottomless pit.
During this time of unprecedented revival of the Bride of the Lamb, and during a time of intense persecution and mass murder of Christian saints, and in the midst of all the global chaos that will be going on during the time of Great Tribulation, there will be a an unprecedented move of the Spirit of God, …such as has not been seen to this day, no not even in the beginning (as this Grand Old Mansion is rebuilt)…So powerful will be this move of the Holy Spirit – for all that can be shaken, will be shaken; heaven and earth will be shaken and the power of Christ will prevail, for God shall pour out of His Holy Spirit to strengthen and to purify, and by the power in the blood of the Lamb, God shall make ready the Bride for His Son – beautify the Bride of the Lamb, that her gown may be white, that she may be holy and pure – without spot or blemish, or any such thing…her gown will be white….many will turn to the Lord during this time, in this global revival, and will do so without any accuser accusing them before God day and night!
I am really feeling this strongly in my spirit today, that we need to (spiritually and mentally) prepare ourselves for the days ahead.
Steel yourselves saints, and be strong now, and get ready – for the Lord Jesus comes, and all hell is about to break loose on this earth!
…it’s coming, this is absolutely coming!
posted from:
http://the-christians-forum.com/topic/3186065/1/
How Amazing – a dream! And the warnings you guys imply from this dream! are:
ALL READY WRITTEN DOWN!
IN BLACK AND WHITE!
IN HIS WORD!
For all to read and understand.
Why does God have to tell us things in dreams that we should know? Are we that silly?
Stop kidding ourselves, and be like men that are on strong meat, and no longer think and talk as children.
“Steel yourselves saints, and be strong now, and get ready – for the Lord Jesus comes, and all hell is about to break loose on this earth!”
“about to” .Where have we been for the last 20, 30, years or 50 or 100? Every where you look there is disaster on a massive scale – and it will only get worse, never mind the dreamers, just read chapter and verse.
PS I don’t say this to be disrespectful or personal – just honest with Truth.
Pr Michael
Pr Michael
Kidding ourselves?
…from the very word YOU say to read:
1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 (New King James Version)
19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.
Acts 2:17 (New King James Version)
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
Are you a cessationist? Why are you criticizing what the bible says will happen? You’re right, is all in black and white…and the gift of prophecy has not ceased.
Grant wrote:
“We should be shedding tears for them.”
Not sure of your exact points, but perhaps you can clarify.
The ONLY ones we should be shedding tears for, are the sheep who are still caught up in the false apostate church- that “church” who says they have the name of God but do not KNOW HIM NOR REPRESENT HIM.
We should not shed one tear for that false babylonian whore church. (Rev. 17:1) Not one. That church has been JUDGED.
The sentence has already been passed on that church.It’s days are numbered. God HATES with a PERFECT HATRED that false church and is looking forward to the day when her demise is complete and final.
He is just allowing “her” to be filled up completely with “her” sin.
Then His wrath will be poured out upon “her”.
Michael, how amazing! God actually “speaks” through dreams!
Wow, who would have thunk it?
(Sheepkinz, bless you and thanks, I love those passages of scripture :) but didn’t know the meaning until very recently – that the Lord would call me watchful is a great encouragement – such a blessing to come to a blog like this and see there are so many others awake and watchful in this hour – I find what I’m watching for is to see what it is the Lord is doing because even the devil ends up working for the Lord ultimately in spite of himself, as an instrument of judgment or chastisement. He is indeed watching over His word and it is coming to pass!)
It is prophetic, It is prophecyed that as it was in the days when the Lord lead the children of Israel out of ISRAEL. when he prourd out his rath on EGYPT. The hand of YHVH was a cuvering over the children of Israel, that they sufer not his fearse rath. So it shall be in the pouring out of his fearse rath apon the whole of the face of the earth. We can know this to be truth by prophecy as whell. The two prophets that the world kills and suffers ther bodies to lie in the streets 3 1/2 days are reserected. It is also written: All those dead in Christ are reserected and those still alive in Christ are caught up with then in the heaven to go be with Christ and dwell with hem for a thousand years.This does not leave two prophets or saint behind. So we see also dearing the fourty two months before the beast is taken from power. All the saints and prophets of YHVH, GOD Almighty, born again in Christ Yeshua are protected of the hand of God. As in the days of the exodus. I am going to look up the prophecy fortelling of this protection and will post it. So please look to a later post.
REV: Robert Ruch
It is prophetic, It is prophesied that as it was in the days when the Lord lead the children of Israel out of ISRAEL. when he poured out his wrath on EGYPT. The hand of YHVH was a covering over the children of Israel, that they suffer not his fears wrath. So it shall be in the pouring out of his fears wrath upon the whole of the face of the earth. We can know this to be truth by prophecy as well. The two prophets that the world kills and suffers their bodies to lie in the streets 3 1/2 days are resurrected. It is also written: All those dead in Christ are resurrected and those still alive in Christ are caught up with then in the heaven to go be with Christ and dwell with hem for a thousand years.This does not leave two prophets or saint behind. So we see also daring the forty two months before the beast is taken from power. All the saints and prophets of YHVH, GOD Almighty, born again in Christ Yeshua are protected of the hand of God. As in the days of the exodus. I am going to look up the prophecy foretelling of this protection and will post it. So please look to a later post.
REV: Robert Ruch
Both ships are representations of the church. Both are on the same journey … to get to the other side with Jesus. One is riding high, waiting for the rapture and doing little if anything for those not part of their group. The persecution and suffering of the saints spoken of by Jesus doesn’t apply to them, that’s for everyone else, they’ll somehow be exempt. The other ship (ferry) is not nearly so dazzeling but intent on bringing in the lost and staying secure in Christ. Notice the difference in size of the two ships. The two ships make up the whole earthly church (what the world calls the church). The size of the cruise ship as a percentage of the whole represents that portion of the church that is currently lost and doesn’t know it. The sea often represents the peoples/nations. It’s scary to think that it represents those who are not on either ship.
As I have promessed, here is the scriptural referances of prophecy revealing truth———–ZOPHANIAH: 2;1-3————- We are also given to understanding that this prophecy is calling the spiritual ISRAEL around the Earth because it calls for the meek of all the Earth to seek the Lord Yeshua. These people are all the saints and prophets in christ Yeshua.
THE WHOLE BOOK OF Zephaniah IS PROPHECY REVEALING THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION AND THE THOUSAND YEARS HERE ON EARTH WHILE THE DEVIL IS IMPRISONED.
We see this trueth in chapter three.
It is written: 1 CORINTHIANS 14:29-33 29. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30. If anything be revealed to another that sits by let the first hold his peace. 31. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32. The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33. For YHVH, ALMIGHTY GOD is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
It is written: AMOS 3:7 Surely the YHVH, GOD Almighty will do nothing, but he reveals his secret unto his servants the prophets.
It is written: 2 PETER 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but Holy men of YHVH, GOD Almighty spoke as they were moved by the RUACH HA-KODESH.
It is written: It is impossible for YHVH, ALMIGHTY GOD to lie.
It is written: 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of YHVH, GOD Almighty, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
So use the solid foundation of the word, as YHVH, GOD Almighty has laid it forth to be used, to the edifying and increase of the body of Christ YESHUA, the Holy habitation of YHVH, GOD Almighty thru the RUACH HA-KODESH.
It is written: Be ye Holy for I am Holy.
So I say, let YHVH ALMIGHTY GOD have his perfect words in you.
It is prophetic, It is prophesied that as it was in the days when the Lord lead the children of Israel out of ISRAEL. when he poured out his wrath on EGYPT. The hand of YHVH was a covering over the children of Israel, that they suffer not his fears wrath. So it shall be in the pouring out of his fears wrath upon the whole of the face of the earth. We can know this to be truth by prophecy as well. The two prophets that the world kills and suffers their bodies to lie in the streets 3 1/2 days are resurrected. It is also written: All those dead in Christ are resurrected and those still alive in Christ are caught up with then in the heaven to go be with Christ and dwell with hem for a thousand years.This does not leave two prophets or saint behind. So we see also daring the forty two months before the beast is taken from power. All the saints and prophets of YHVH, GOD Almighty, born again in Christ Yeshua are protected of the hand of God. As in the days of the exodus. I am going to look up the prophecy foretelling of this protection and will post it. So please look to a later post.
REV: Robert Ruch
I totally agree He who has an ear let him listen, God speaks in dreams, Joseph was a child when he had dreams and it came to pass, people called him a dreamer and he even interpreted the Kings dreams, so this is prophetic, for me it says people need to make a decision, between heaven and hell the cruise ships.
What if the cruise ship represented the lazy rapture church and all its vain scripture warriors, who cannot believe Christ-in-you!!! They cannot salute Christ-in-you now! They think they are not on a vain cruise, but they are even now! As Christ returns in glory quickly to live inside man, the vain continue to be vain and will not see!
Hi, (Kinda Late) I just read the dream and the coments, my first thought is this the church?? I mean could it be the world or the just the unsaved on the cruise ship?? Just because she saw one of her friends from church on the ship does not mean that that one friend was even saved for we know that not all that are in the church are saved and living for the Lord. I know basically the thought is that iit is the church as we know it today -but could it be the world the evil captain (Satan) speaking to his people to continue to have fun (sin)as they cruise through the air at times together. Finally as the ships come together one last time the friend decides he or she needs to get right with the Lord and heads for the ark of safety in her friends ship and she jumps over. There are many unsaved sailing the sea of life in their cruises of pleasure and prosperity. I say it could be either. The evil captain told them he would get them to the right destination safely I think we have a Leader in our Nation who truly believes that, but is taking this Nation to Judgement. For yes soon those rocks or Meteour’s will fall and many will perish.. The important thing to remember is Jesus loves the lost and the backslidden Yes he hates sin but we have to remember his people perish for lack of knowledge This generation is perishing for a lack of the Hearing of the Word in the pulpit. If they are blessed to come across a website like this amen to that but many have not heard prophecy or preaching like you have on this website. I pray for Sheperds to be raised up that have” his “heart and truly speak the truth and snatch those who are periishing out of the fire.. Even if we are on the right ship and I pray we continue to cry out to those on the other side wheather it is the brothers or sisters we know in the church or the unsaved that no not heard of our Jesus.Time is short Jesus is coming. His sons and daughters shall prophecy age knows no barriers.Blessings .
Dreamer wrote:
Both ships are representations of the church. Both are on the same journey … to get to the other side with Jesus. One is riding high, waiting for the rapture and doing little if anything for those not part of their group. The persecution and suffering of the saints spoken of by Jesus doesn’t apply to them, that’s for everyone else, they’ll somehow be exempt.
———————————————————————
Just because there is not much (if any) persecution in North-America doesn’t mean there is NO persecution of the Church. More than 300 thousand Christians are KILLED and TORTURED EACH YEAR for their faith!
For the sake of these brothers and sisters one can only hope and pray that the rapture interpretation of Scripture is indeed correct!
Blessings, and All 4 Jesus!
Mario
Sandi,
Also, Hosea 4:6 says, “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.” That’s where most end it. Sounds like God’s people are destroyed for lack of receiving the Word of God. But if we read on we see the truth. God’s people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, “because thou hast rejected knowledge.” Now we see the truth. God’s people are destroyed because they have rejected the truth of God’s Word. So God says, because you have rejected knowledge, “I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to Me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget they children.” Wow, sounds like we that are God’s people and have children, play a big part in which way our children go.
I found about 30 more scriptures that show our children being blessed or cursed according to our walk with God.
I don’t know why I said all this, but there it is. BE BLESSED!
Hi everyone, I think it would be healthy if everyone went to the bible for the facts of the ages. We have been told lots of myths and fables by teachers and the myths get passed on and on and on, and noone bothers reading to check.
For example we have been told that there were three wise men and in fact it doesn’t state in the bible at all that there were three wise men at all!
I notice in the little children’s bibles they have many facts wrong!! People who are shown really young are not really young at all according to scripture.
Just to say that before we pass the ;myths around once again let’s examine the word of God first, in context of course, and let’s put a stop to the fables.
Age of spiritual accountability for the Israelite’s documented while in the desert for forty years was 18yrs of age.
“Your sons and daughters shall prophecy” doesn’t mean a young age. A 70yr old man can have a daughter who is 50yrs of age. In the bible days the families lived together, working together, looking after each other and doing business together.
Samuel was given to Eli the priest after he was weaned, and that could have been up to 8yrs of age. Samuel is often depicted as a very young boy, when in fact it was when Eli the priest grew very old that Samuel heard the Lord;s first directive and prophecy for Eli and his wicked sons.
all this to say that we have been surrounded by myths. and it really is necessary to re-read everything in context, leaving out our own agenda’s, seeking to know the truth for His sake and for the sake of the world.
it is good to line things up with the gospels and the book of Acts too.
really, we have to read from the first page of the bible to the very last, putting aside mans myths, and then we’ll get a reasonable grasp on the truth. And THEN we have to start all over again lol. the Green’s Literal bible is excellent for this kind of study.
God bless,
Sarah
Lulu, How do you really think the ‘minister’ would answer? He is already persuaded in his thinking and position in the ‘church’. You have already heard how many others answer in this forum, yet you clearly think the ‘minister’ is better able to speak.
This is one of the problems with the ‘institutionalised church’. People leave the thinking, and much of the work, to the ‘minister’.He calls most of the ‘shots’. In fact, many neglect to develop a personal relationship with God for themselves. Yet,’my sheep hear my voice’ said Jesus. Many of the contributors to this forum obviously do hear Him. Do you? If not, whose sheep are you? I mean this in a sincere way. We each must learn to follow Jesus for ourselves. There is a cost. The ‘church’ may persecute you if you do not toe the line? Whom will you obey then? Men or God?
I do not propose to get deeply into the subject here, but scripture shows plainly that the early church met in homes, down by the river and other places.(The building of synagogues was a Jewish tradition.) It was not until the formation of the Roman Catholic Church that they began building cathedrals – purpose-built houses of religion – and created a separation of clergy and laity. Things went from bad to worse. Then came the ‘reformation’ with Martin Luther.They got rid of some of the bad practices, but not all. Even the Pentecostal churches today still carry on some of those practices – focus on paid ‘ministers’, seating arrangements, tithing (oops) and so on. They are the traditions of men which the Bible warns against. God is indeed re-building His house. It is people and they are all under the headship of Jesus Christ! Jesus prayed for the church in John 17 ‘that they might be truly one.’ It is going to happen! The divisions (we may excuse them as denominations , streams or whatever ) with all their peculiar practices and traditions, will go.
This is not opinion, but based on revelation from the Holy Spirit. Like all things you must judge whether that is truly so. Pray . Ask God if what I have written is in error.
Many of the people in the churches are my friends. I have spoken to some and found myself in argument with them. The Lord cautioned me not to talk about it unless someone was ready to listen. Most are not. What then?.
The coming revival is something which I am totally committed to.( This again is based on personal revelation – not opinion.) God is able to do what we cannot. People will be shaken out of those lifeless institutions . Praise God.
All I can say to that word which you have shared directly above “Harvey Rosieur” is that I wholeheartedly, 100% agree with you in everything you are saying…
This is also what the Lord has shown me via personal revelation, there is a coming revival and all “demoninations”, “streams”, call them what you will, will be abolished so that “Christ may be all in all” in His Church, which is His Body, His Precious and Holy Bride on this earth by the Blood of the Lamb, through the power of the Holy Spirit within us… Unity in the Spirit… There is no unity anywhere else… Where Christ is Lord there is unity… Nowhere esle… Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God that He may lift you up in due time… Praise You Jesus… Praise You Father… Glorify Your Name in all the earth…
Yes MArio. Ther eis lots of persecution of Christians in the world today. And yes it will happen here.
Hi “Harvey Rosieur”, I’d be keen to get in touch with you and if you’re keen to get in touch with me then I give the moderators of this website and Andrew Strom permission to release to you my personal email address which they possess, God bless brother, Andrew
Hello,
I am not wishing to be contentious but doesn’t the parable of Jesus talk about the wheat growing up with the tares – not to be “sorted” until judgement – unless the good be pulled up with the bad. Also not every Christian who is in error is “partying”. There are many churches, even pentecostals, who are legalistic and quite the opposite. All the world is not partying either – not even everyone in the first world. Many in the third world are starving or belong to religions who are quite circumspect.
Stephanie, from what i can see the sorting of the wheat and tares is already going on, there is a separating out of organized religion of those who follow Jesus. Judgment begins with the house of the Lord, and this judgment has already started as well, with the exposure of so many ‘ministers’ who have fallen into sin in recent years. This means the judgment of the world is not far away, since judgment is beginning with His house. I believe the hour is later than is commonly thought. The partying on the cruise ship is a parable for living for and serving self in the guise of serving Jesus – there are many who don’t commit the big sins and espouse ‘family values’ and go to church regularly but who’s god is their minister or church and who have turned aside to a false gospel without realizing it – many are also serving mammon circumspectly at the same time – a very socially acceptable sin in most circles. Legalism itself is a false gospel – it is serving self in the form of self-righteousness and puffs up flesh and cannot save.
There was a man, Martin Luther King and he said:
“I have a dream ….”
His dream was lucid.
Uncomplicated.
Agreed with scripture.
Needed no interpretation.
Was indisputably from God.
Every one, sinner or Saint, could understand it.
That my friends is Acts 2 27
He also had a vision and it was the fulfillment of his dream.
His dream/vision will surely come to pass.
What about Peter and the sheets of unclean food you ask?
Was not this a special case? The Word was not being shared with Gentiles as prophesied?
It was in Hosea. written down for them, later in Romans the Holy Spirit in Paul explains it to them!
“As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.”
God is not the author of confusion, The confusion of thought and interpretation of these dreams tells us where they come from – our own minds.
Sorry folks, you do not need the gift of discernment to see the plain obvious!
I am not a “cessationist ”
By the grace of God i received the Holy Spirit in ’65 together with all the gifts of the Spirit – Yes prophecy is one of them – as have all my colleagues – thousands and thousands of them, all church members!
There is not one person (except they be new) in our fellowship that has not received the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues. they use it daily in their prayer times, and in the church, hand in hand with interpretation. All the gifts are manifest in our lives and meetings. We do not boast of this, but give the Glory Him to Whom it belongs.
With that in filling God gave us all things that are profitable. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness……”
“God gave me a dream last night that I should walk in the Spirit, avoid drunkenness etc.etc ” “and he showed me by asking me to walk straight along a white line…. ….”
I could “dream up” anything and sadly many would fall for it. What a great time of discussion, interpretation and pontificating we could all have and to what purpose?
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake …….has in these last days spoken to us by His Son.
When Jesus speaks to me with the Holy Spirit, it is lucid and not in a dream.
Yes I also have a dream/vision:
“It includes is a mighty trumpet sound, a sign in the Heavens, and He is coming. for us, and we are on our way to meet Him, and the twinkling of an eye………… ”
Pr Michael
Sarah, looking at the passage of Luke which talks about Jesus at the age of twelve going to the temple with His parents:
Luk 2:40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.
Luk 2:41 Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover.
Luk 2:42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom.
Luk 2:43 After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it.
Luk 2:44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends.
Luk 2:45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him.
Luk 2:46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
Luk 2:47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
Luk 2:48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
Luk 2:49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”
Luk 2:50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.
Luk 2:51 Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart.
What was he “saying to them”?
What makes me really, really, really, grieved and sad is that the “party boat’ in the dream, which represent the false church with a “party like” good times atmosphere -there in that “atmosphere” are STILL some of the Lord’s sheep…..who don’t know their right hand from their left!
They really don’t know any better! How it grieves and angers the Lord that there are teachers who spew their vile disgusting garbage “teaching” and feed it to the sheep, and call it “God”!
This is who the judgment in God’s house is for! These false “teachers” will be judged FIRST….unless they repent. God help their souls! They are in such a dangerous place, man!
Who we should be interceeding for (as led of the Lord) are those sheep who don’t know any better, having been newly saved, or just really young in the Lord, and taught really, really, really bad doctrine.
Did I say really bad?
Motherofnations,
If God wanted to, He would have rocks cry out and prophecy to get peoples attention.
Age does not matter. Talk about missing the point of the thread (and the dream) completely. Oh brother!
Just a thought. Are you on a boat that is delivering you to the other side, or are you on one that has attracts you with fanfare and entertainment, that will just circle around and bring you back to where your trip began?
amen, heartbeat.
Genesis 7:
15So they went into the ark to Noah, by twos of all flesh in which was the breath of life. 16Those that entered, male and female of all flesh, entered as God had commanded him; and the LORD closed it behind him.
17Then the flood came upon the earth for forty days, and the water increased and lifted up the ark, so that it rose above the earth. 18The water prevailed and increased greatly upon the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19The water prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered. 20The water prevailed fifteen cubits higher, and the mountains were covered. 21All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind; 22of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died. 23Thus He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky, and they were blotted out from the earth; and only Noah was left, together with those that were with him in the ark.
I went back to Genesis 7.
Noah and his household and the animals were in the ark of safety.
Just as the dream depicts the 2 for their is NO in between. The apostate is not in the ark of safety just as the world is not, nor can be, because they are of the world.
Both are in the same manner, for neither are truly in the Ark of the Lord. As the dream depicts some will come out at the last minute and or right before.
I meant heartburning:)
Genesis 7:
6Those that entered, male and female of all flesh, entered as God had commanded him; and the LORD closed it behind him.
He shut them in safely.
This is “symbolic” of the Lords true people,
closed in, shut in with Him. Clothed in Christ is to be hid.
Colossians 3:3
For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Scriptures also says this and it is very sobering :
Revelation 3:
15 ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.
16′So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
This is very offensive to the Lord.
Harvey and Andrew J.,
So the “A” Seers say the church is the Harlot, come out of her.
The “B” Seers say they are the seeing correctors of the Harlot, they will lead!
The “A” Seers say rapture is a lie, to believe it is to blind all seeing abilities.
The “B” Seers say, ahem, never mind, “WE BELIEVE RAPTURE!!!”
The “A” Seers say Jesus comes quickly in humans, and honor them and Him!
The “B” Seers say the “A” Seers are not saved, and heretics.
The “A” Seers walked away from church a long time ago.
The “B” Seers want to speak at the next revival conference.
The “A” Seers post short.
The “B” Seers post long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long.
The “A” Seers, if pressed, will say the “B” Seers sustain the Harlot.
The “B” Seers hate church as normal, but want to lead it, well, normal.
The “A” Seers know truth costs a lot.
The “B” Seers won’t pay the price to chuck rapture in order to start “A” Seeing.
God is quickly removing Harlot Church, but “B” Seers won’t come out of her.
The “B” Seers won’t come out of the Harlot, mainly because they despise “A’s.”
The “A” Seers aren’t so, well, PROUD. They honor God in all, even so! Amen!
Preach it sisters! :)
..oops, sorry Robert, didn’t mean to include you as a sister, our posts crossed..
Harvey and Andrew J.,
Next Level considerations…
So this site is sort of a last chance to become a “go-to” man or woman of God during the near future of tribulation like the modern world has never seen.
God wants all seers to be “A” Seers of “In That Day”, which is, of course, NOW!
“A” Seers aren’t so much prophets really. They aren’t so much ANYTHING, except powerfully indwelt of Jesus. Was Jesus a prophet? Yes. A healer? Yes. A counselor? Yes. A friend in need? Yes. An orator? Yes. Etc.
This site is sort of a last chance opportunity for “B” Seers to come out of the “two-camps-exchanging-hate” crowd of trying vainly to correct the church of vanity.
The “B” Seers still have HUGE egos, which they defend too much even as they “protesteth too much” about, well, about almost all things. In this, they are blind!
In a few turns of the earth around the sun (i.e. years) the world will be a much more hellish place to live. Sheep will go to church and get nothing they need. NOTHING.
Sheep will go to “B” Seers and get NOTHING they need. NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING except “protesting too much” and continued defense of “B” Seeing egos.
Sheep will find the true “GO-TO” ones, the “A” Seers, and get what they need.
What will people/sheep need in the next few calamitous years? Healing. (Jesus indwelt in ones can do that.) Words of Wisdom (Jesus indwlet in ones can do that.) Truth. (Jesus indwelt in ones can do that.) Deliverance. (Jesus indwelt in ones can do that.) Prophetic insight. (Jesus indwelt in ones can do that.)
Thus, it will be home/park/outdoor/indoor ministry. But it won’t be church.
And the biggest tragedy is that the many “A” Seeing posts and blogs at this late, late, late date…… were and are and will be ignored by so many “B” Seeing blogsters that must maintain their own proud egos and, most importantly, distance from the “A” Seers, whom they despise most perfectly.
The “A” Seers have so much Jesus in them, it rattles the souls of the not-yet-mature.
The “A” Seers usher in the New Times of God not as vainglorious preachers, teachers, prophets, apostles, healers, sages…… No, they usher in the Kingdom of God as indwelt servants of Father God Almighty in ways indistinguishable — and EVEN GREATER — than when Jesus did it indwlet of Father two-thousand years ago.
As it was then, so it it now. The crowd of “B” Seers that continually post in this site “crucify those lousy “A” Seers!” (in spirit, I say)…. know not what they do!
Jesus wants to manifest in every many, woman and child. (But not in blind seers!)
Amen “sheepkinz” continuing with Rev 3:19 (NIV):
“Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent”.
These symbolise those who the Lord loves who are still on the party ship but who realise and “jump ship” just in time…
Dear Watchful, that was Jesus. He is God and man.
It is purposed. Josiah became a king at the age of eight. In King Josiah’s 18th year of reigning the book was found and Josiah after reading the book became truly repentful and led a revival in the land. This would mean that Josiah was 36yrs of age when he came to deep repentance. The story is powerful and very moving and makes a body weep. What a great man Josiah was!! Praise the Lord.
I think we are in the days of Samuel, where in those days God was not heard from.
I also see that when a dream, or a prophecy was given throughout the bible that massive change was brought about in man. I’m not talking about Noah’s preaching for 130yrs with no soul saved. I’m specifically talking about dreams and prophecy’s and visions. I guess what I’m saying is that we won’t need to be running around and arguing if something is from God or not, because upon hearing it we will hear Him and it will make massive change in the heart of the human, whether for his better or for his worse. But if we have to pull something apart and check for the needle in the haystack then obviously it is not from God. I think the vast majority of visions, and revelations and prophecies are not from God. When we hear it we will know instantly.
Notice that I haven’t actually said anything about this girls dream?
Sarah
Heidi144 – you are very quick to accuse, I notice in all the threads. I made no reference for or against this girls dream, go back and read before you point the fingers. And after you read please don’t slander and point fingers, it’s not nice and gives Jesus a bad reputation. God looks on the heart Heidi, he doesn’t care how intellectual or spiritual we sound, it is the heart issues that concern Him.
My teen sons behave more mature than this during biblical debate, and we have some heated debates.
Logic, using the front lobes that God gave us so that we will not be quick to slander all helps to being a polite, caring, sensitive to others, esteeming others above ourselves kind of person which brings glory to the Father. Amen! That is foremost what we are called to do.
(((sigh)))Some people think that they are high and mighty prophets and that gives them rights to attack, slander, falsely accuse and use spiritually pieous speech to “bring the person down” and in so doing bring themselves up. This is rampant throughout the churches today.
Let’s get the fear of God and tread carefully when it comes to how we are treating people.’
Sarah
Sarah – are we not to be like Jesus – His whole life was an example we are to follow.
With respect, I disagree that every time God speaks there is a dramatic change in a person. Jesus spoke all day every day with His disciples for three years, it was an ongoing relationship with gradual change, it wasnt’ a case of fireworks and angelic choirs everytime He opened His mouth. His purpose in speaking isn’t always to minister directly to a particular need in a person, sometimes it is for other reasons such as to teach or to give direction. I have experienced Him speaking to me for many different reasons, sometimes it is to minister to me with a specific change that occurred in an instant, sometimes it is to teach, sometimes it is to give me a specific instruction, sometimes it is for simple encouragement or to open up my vision to something that is happening in the church, sometimes there seems to be a sharing of His burden with His people – one time it seemed as though the Lord was actually sharing His complaint with me about something! It didnt’ change me but I had a revelation and it was just something He was sharing with me the way you would share your thoughts with a friend – no immediate purpose, just a sharing of hearts. I’m sure if you stop and think about it you’ve probably heard from the Lord similarly yourself without there always being an immediate dramatic change.
I had this dream June 17, 2010 on Thursday, and posted it on facebook the next day. The last paragraph is the same interpretation of the 2 boats dream.
I dreamed the waters in America were about 2/3rd off the level they should be. A person had a boat like you would use for vacationing took us to see a main tributary.
The food levels were also down, and people were having a hard time getting food. In the dream the people were talking about the lack of fish in the water because the water levels couldn’t contain them. I got out of the boat, pointed to someone where the water levels should be. And I started lookng around the banks. I pulled back plants and moved rocks and found healthy hidden fish. I kept finding them and putting them aside for my family and friends. The fish were very large trout.
In this time of judgment, I believe our God was encouraging me, that He will still be the provider for those who truly love Him.
Then I had a dream I believe that pertained to my call, about an amusement park, and ministering to people and getting them out. I believe the amusement park represented “the mainstream church,” not the true remnant.
Dear Heidi…..Your wounded heart is keeping you in bondage to your flesh. God is the healer….let Him heal that wound and set you free to love others.
I will be praying for your healing and release.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Third Comment about Seers… Since this is a “Seer” site.
“C” Seers are in the world and into self and talk about the world and self.
“B” Seers are in the church and into self and talk about church and self.
“C” Seers are indwelt by Jesus at certain levels, and want to help “B” & “C”ers.
Once the crowd of Seers all become indwelt of Jesus, they don’t post endless scripture references. (Jesus didn’t!) They sort of become the word themselves. (Jesus was!)
The Seer’s and Jesus’ common goal should be to help all along the way become indwelt of Jesus, which is to be indwelt of God.
Right now this site has a lot of “C” Seers still needing to talk about the world and self. But the majority are “B” Seers still needing to talk about the church (including endless scripture references) and most especially, their enthroned SELF!
The “A” Seers get tired of posting (Actually, Jesus tells them to slow down, refrain, or stop) because it just riles up the blind side of the unseeing Seers.
Folks, this site isn’t for any ones of you to prove, through endless scripture debates or personal narratives (self-proclamations) to convince all just who should correct and then lead and have power in what is now Harlot Church.
Harlot Church is deader than a door nail. It is a dead horse. You cannot beat a dead horse and expect any results.
“C” and “B” Seers are not curious about anything, except their certainty that they have seen a Churchy Horse that doesn’t look too healthy (duh! it’s DEAD!) and they have “seen” the light on how to cure this dead trollup (it ain’t fixable) and doesn’t their “C” and “B” sight make them just wonderful and ready!!!
So, the “A” Seer prays, retreats and continues to prepare for “In That Day”.
“A” Seers are curious. They search the blogster’s websites, if available.
“B” Seers want it all explained, pronto quick, so they can chop it up right here, on this site, now! Bloody good fun for those “B” bodies!
But the scriptures warn, Don’t cast your pearls before you-know-what, else they turn and rend you.
And most of the “A” Seers who have posted here, have been “rent” by little seers.
So, I heartily recommend all of us not rend each other! We are Seers, for Christ’s sake! So, SEE! If you want to be a SEER, SEE! And seek! Be curious, not a crucifier of the indwelt of God. When you crucify true, high-level Seers, you only give them greater glory (which is to say greater indwelling-of-God)… and you only crucify Jesus’ ability to manifest God-indwelt in you! That’s how it works.
quote from motherofnations-Sarah
“Your sons and daughters shall prophecy” doesn’t mean a young age. A 70yr old man can have a
daughter who is 50yrs of age. In the bible days the families lived together, working together, looking after each other and doing business together.
end quote
It doesnt say the age, so are we to place, put our thoughts above Gods and place what age we believe
should be when dreams, visions and prophecies are given forth ?
Isaiah 55:
8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.
9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
1Corinthians 1
19For it is written,
“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
27but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are,
29so that no man may boast before God. 30But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
31so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”
Dear Watchful and Sheepkinz,
I totally agree with these bible verses. And yes I agree with the context that they are in.
And I absolutely agree that God chooses the foolish of this world to confound the wise. This does not mean that the word “foolish” means children.
I still haven’t agreed nor disagreed with this girls dream.
I agree that God uses children, out of the mouth of babes God’s praise is perfected. God has used my children many times in words of encouragement. Just this last week the Lord brought revelation to a passage in the second chapter of the book of Acts, through one of my teen sons. I may share it sometime. This the Lord did, since one of my other teen sons has a love for linguistics and the word of God and has committed himself to much study for years now. So the “language” and “tongues” topic has been extremely ongoing in our home. Especially as homeschooler’s we have had quite a few days where we have taken many hours to practicing dividing the word rightly.
So as you can see, I am not against God using children. I am against the gold calf though. :) And I do believe that God is glorified when we rightly discern His word. :)
All I am trying to point out is that we have to read the verses in context and not add and take away. I could add my own opinions but then they will just be mine and I don’t need to always have an opinion.
Just something to think on.
with love,
Sarah
Hi Sheepkinz,
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
The above passage if you notice begins with talking about wise men, and scribes. These were the learned people of the day. Knowing this, it is then obvious that the next part is talking about the opposite of the learned which would be the unlearned people.
I say a huge yes and amen to that, that God uses the unlearned of this world to confound the learned and the intellectual.
Sarah
I had a quick look through these verses that Sheepzkin has posted and there is no references made to children at all. I would have to read into it to come up with that conclusion.
I have posted those verses below my name for easy reference.
Sarah
Isaiah 55:
8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.
9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
1Corinthians 1
19For it is written,
“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
27but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are,
29so that no man may boast before God. 30But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
31so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”
Happy Trails said:
Dear Heidi…..Your wounded heart is keeping you in bondage to your flesh. God is the healer….let Him heal that wound and set you free to love others.
I will be praying for your healing and release.
I have to agree with Happy Trails, I can hear the hurt, my heart is weighted down for you Heidi. I pray that you will allow the Lord to bring healing to your life and that you will find forgiveness and give forgiveness freely in His name. Amen.
with love,
Sarah
That is why I sincerely asked you because you said in the verse you quoted that it doesnt mean, ” young age.”
The focus is to be on the message when it is of God, The age, really is truly of no matter because it deters from the message when disputing over things such as this.
I was thinking earlier about Jesus and the words He spoke to his disciples, concerning children….
Matthew 19
13Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them.
14But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
15After laying His hands on them, He departed from there.
Now to me, that is a beautiful beautiful picture of the little ones and of Jesus and what He thinks:)
Hi Watchful,
I wrote a post and then the mozilla crashed and so I will make this really short.
I agree with all that you have said. It is very balanced and very agreeable with the Lord’s ways.
with love,
Sarah
The Dream of the 2 Boats was very powerful, and it’s just wonderful how the Lord will give that to a 12 year old. I think its wonderful. He letting her know early what to except.
And isn’t it just like our walk with the Lord. You can look at it several different ways, I see a journey, an individual journey that we must choose… “Choose ye this day who you will serve”
Its not an easy journey, its filled with many trials and tribulations along the way…but our reward is eternal life. And in the midst of all the trials we are promised the peace that surpasses all understanding. And only God can use trials to grow us and transform us into who he would have us to be.
“And this race is not given to the swift, but to those who will endure”
Lord I pray that you will continue to give me and all those who seek your face a spirit of endurance becuz that is what we will need in order to make this journey. Continue to strenghten us in our inner man so that when things get overwhelming to us…we won’t take the easier softer way, that would feel good to the flesh, but will stay rooted and planted in our lord and savior jesus christ, i pray these things in the name of jesus. amen
A bit off topic, but when I was a young believer, I used to wonder, since Christian people had to go to church to be “fed” the word of God, how the ministers got fed themselves, since they didn’t go to church to listen to someone preach, they did the preaching themselves. I used to actually be a little worried for them, but I guess I eventually concluded they must read the Bible and pray and the Lord would somehow teach them Himself. (hmmm..)
Nowadays I wonder and feel concerned about how ministers would go about obeying the call to come out of the harlot church, since the traditional way of being a ‘minister’ is all part of that apostate system. I try to put myself in their shoes and think what I would do, knowing we are at the end of the age, old things are passing away once again, and the Lord is shepherding His own. I really don’t know how I would respond to that call, would those that have a church close their churches? or re-form them somehow? One thing is for sure, I would put my position and ministry completely on the altar and truly be seeking the Lord for His will. But I’m just thinking today that it must be a perplexing kind of transitional time for those who understand.
ANDREW:
This is also what the Lord has shown me via personal revelation, there is a coming revival and all “demoninations”, “streams”, call them what you will, will be abolished so that “Christ may be all in all” in His Church, which is His Body, His Precious and Holy Bride on this earth
Andrew, your remark above sounds like a mix of universalism and Manifest Sons Of God.
True there will be radical revival with in the true church, so much so many will die for their faith and testimony of Jesus Christ, but it will not make the whole earth perfect., full of revival and repentance. No, the scriptures say the end days shall be as Sodom and Gemorrah, like the apostate church we saw in this vision..
There will be coming together a One World Apostate Church of all relegions and there will be the True Church of Jesus Christ.
Andrew please be careful not to base all you believe on personal revelations.
Not sure you can show me scripture were all Demoninations are going to come together and have world wide revival, please read the Revelation of Jesus Christ to the seven churchs and you will see the true church of Jesus Christ and what the Apostate church will look like.
I do love your love and zeal for the Lord and Revival though.
Blessings, Lynn
Please know my above post was addressed to Andrew J Horton, not Andrew Strom.
Motherofnations wrote:
“Happy Trails said:
Dear Heidi…..Your wounded heart is keeping you in bondage to your flesh. God is the healer….let Him heal that wound and set you free to love others.
I will be praying for your healing and release.
I have to agree with Happy Trails, I can hear the hurt, my heart is weighted down for you Heidi. I pray that you will allow the Lord to bring healing to your life and that you will find forgiveness and give forgiveness freely in His name. Amen.
with love,
Sarah”
(sniff, sniff) Thank you mother ( and Happy trails too)
You are both too kind. Love ya! You keep this forum really interesting and scintillating
The Lord bless ya real good,
Heidi144
watchful wrote:
.” I used to actually be a little worried for them, but I guess I eventually concluded they must read the Bible and pray and the Lord would somehow teach them Himself. (hmmm..)”
I think you answered it right there watchful (wink)
Jesus is really good at that isn’t He?
Michael – God does not give us the gift”s” of the Holy Spirit, it is the “Gift”, singular. As in the “Fruit” of the Spirit, not fruit”s”.
Acts 1:4 (Spoken by Christ)
Acts 2:30 (Peter says “repent and recive the ‘Gift’ [no S] of the Holy Spirit.
ETC!
No where in scripture will you fond the gift(S), but the Gift as it relates to the Holy Spirit.
So, when we receive this “Gift” it is a singular act and not a bestowment of all the “spiritual” gifts, which each is given according to the discretion of the Holy Spirit.
“God has also given each of us DIFFERENT gifts to use” Romans 12:6
Shouldn’t the cause of our shouting be to
When we shout loud so as to convince others that we are right and they are not, are we not pointing self-righteously to ourselves and not pointing to God, Who is the reason for our shouting, for HIs praise, honor and worship?
But the “FRUIT” (no S) of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, “GENTLENESS” and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful “NATURE” with its “PASSIONS” and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become “CONCEITED, PROVOKING AND ENVYING” each other.
Michael B
The message is of God. It is in agreement with what God is doing through me at Divine-Way.com. I comment on new at USAtoday and others showing God’s solutions to world problems we created by ignoring His word.
The solution will obviously work but it involves “ending tourism” and money focus. This is my usual comment. “We are going the wrong way. All our ways are against God’s wisdom. He warned against debt, interest, insurance (surety), covetousness, seeking riches and honors, pride and vanity. We cannot embrace what God hates and receive blessings.
I end my posts with:
http://www.divine-way.com
God has solutions to world problems we created by ignoring His wisdom.
We can back out of the employment lifestyle and create a garden paradise lifestyle that solves the world problems we created by the enslaving employment lifestyle. It is quick, fair, easy and inexpensive. It is the only sustainable lifestyle. We must tell President Obama we want God’s garden paradise lifestyle to end the terrors and 4 x 7 curses God promised to send UNTIL we turn to Him in truth. Leviticus 26
Twitter: Email Pres. Obama: “Lift up Ten Commandments, as written Exodus 20, as nation’s standard; no work, buy or sell on 7th day Sabbath.”
Those who choose God’s humble ride, will be saved though the tribulations will be there. God is telling prophets that as I saved the children of Israel through the plagues, so will I save you. Jesus said to live by every word of God. We need to BELIEVE THAT and want that. Repent, because the kingdom of God is the result of believing in God’s wisdom and living life with it. It is a lifestyle, not a religion.
One boat: Religioneestas stuck in endless scripture wars.
One boat: Experiencing Christ-in-You by ceasing endless scripture wars!
Idea: Try READING the You Testament!!! What’s that?
Read the You Testament!
By Robert Winkler Burke
Of inthatdayteachings.com
Copyright 6/20/10
Read the You Testament,
Read it today!
Read the You Testament,
What does it say?
Through another,
Imbued of God!
Halt, proud ones,
Think it not odd!
Read the You Testament,
Christ-in-you!
And others! What’d you think,
God would do?
Read the You Testament,
Every day exciting!
God restoring all things,
Church wrongs now righting!
Read the You Testament,
It’s better than scripture!
Read God humbly in others,
Have you got the picture?
Read the You Testament,
No? No, you won’t?
You hate God in others?
Of all things, don’t!
Rest assured “harvestisripe”, if you read all the posts which I’ve posted on this thread and the “Harvey Rosier” post directly above mine to which I say, “Amen…” to get the context of what I’m saying you would see that I neither believe in “universalism” or “the Manifest Sons of God” (whoever they they may be)… :-)
There are spirits of fear, spirits of control and spirits of pride operating in all the “man-made”, “extra-biblical” teachings of the “institutionalised church”… This is what God is calling His saints (set apart ones) to come out of…
Once we “come out from” all these things we start to see things clearly in accordance with the Word of God…
I view it like a pyramid where God is at the pinnacle of the pyramid and each of His saints are somewhere down the four diagonal sides with the base at the bottom. As the Holy Spirit assists us each to climb up the diagonal sides of the pyramid we get closer and closer both to Jesus and to each other.
Jesus prayed, as I have posted previously in various threads in this forum, “that they would be one” – speaking of those whom He had chosen, he did not pray for the world – i.e. not universalism – but for those He had chosen and He didn’t pray for those only but for “those who would believe though their message” that “they all may be one”.
John 17 is the prayer which Jesus prayed with His disciples, the last prayer which He prayed I might add, before His suffering and death. It is like His last will and testament. It would do us all good to read John 17 and think deeply about what Jesus prayed for and what He desired so earnestly for those who knew Him and after contemplating this then it would do us good to think about what might happen if this prayer was answered. If Jesus’ last will and testament were answered by God the Father. It is God who saves, “whether by many or by few” it is God who saves.
But getting back to the little sister’s dream… :-)
The Lord reminded me this morning of another song we used to sing in Sunday School:
“With Christ in my vessel I can smile at the storm, Smile at the storm, Smile at the storm, With Christ in my vessel I can smile at the storm, As we go sailing home”…
Also another verse which my wife reminded me of last night,
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world” (John 16:33 KJV)…
And one final one,
“Christ in you the hope of glory” (Colossians 1:27)…
If Jesus is in us and Jesus has overcome the world then doesn’t that just thrill your heart that we will overcome the world also because of Jesus who dwells within us? Praise You Jesus… All glory be to Your Name…
Dear brothers and sisters,
All the body of Christ has a part in the picture. We all see as through a dark glass. There is no such thing that one of us knows all the information on our own when it pertains to the kingdom of God. None of us can be 100 percent sure of what we speculate would be a what. It is always good for us to hold anything of this world loosely since we are pilgrims just passing through this land, that includes our opinions and speculations.
I recall during a study of the eye of an insect that God showed me an example of how the body of Christ operates. The insect has a compound eye. That compound eye is made up of 1,000′s of eyes inside the one eye. Each one of these lens give a pixelated view. If one of these lens fails to function, that part of the picture will simply be missing.
So it is also with the body of Christ. If one small part is not heard, if one small part is overlooked, then the whole body of Christ within that sphere will not be able to see the full picture.
I have said all the above to say this, have patience with other people. Don’t just swipe them to the side, everyone has a part of the picture. Most likely when we think we have the picture, God likes to pull the rug out from underneath us.
Sarah
Michael B
“Let us not become
“CONCEITED” my detractors say i can be
” PROVOKING” Amen! I wish to provoke my brethren to embrace truth – not error.
“ENVYING” No i do not envy any man, nor my Lord.
May I respectfully suggest that if all you can do with the substance of my post, is quibble about an “s” you have missed the point.
May I remind you that he who has recieved the Holy
Spirit is in the following case.
Col. 2:9 says For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Note: In Him (Jesus ) dwelt all the fulness of the God Head bodily and John 116 says “And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace”
When born again of the Spirit! – we have everything that pertains to our walk in the Lord, untill Jesus returns. including all the gift(s) The fruit(s) are manifest as we grow. .please note that the gift of tongues (for use in the church hand in hand with interpretation differs form the Gift of the Holy Spirit, the tongue we use there is for private prayer only as per Romans 8 26 “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings (voice) which cannot be uttered.(understood)” You seem to be confused about the two purposes of the unknown tongue.
see.
http://www.rci.org.au/publications/vor/1994/vor199406.pdf
The substance of my post was that promoting dreams as the Word/voice/message of God in the N.T. is dangerous, and to be discouraged. I have seen many fall because they refused the advise not to put too much on “dreams”
Pr Nichael
Yes life in the biblical church today is like sitting in a life boat watching the folk of the institutional chruches party on the Tittanic. The iceberg has struck, the ship is doomed but folk are comfortable where they are.
This was so uplifting and as always right on time. We must stay in a place where we know that God is God and He always will be God. When we take our eyes off the flesh and the material things of this world we can see him. I believe this is a part of our Holy calling. We must stay in the Word and the Word will be our comfort, joy, and peace because of the workings of the Holy Spirit. We can say He is our peace when we know that we are on the right ship! Thanks for this posting; the time was phenominal.
“Stuck in fake righteousness,
Stuck in a lurch.”
Perceptive Robert. I think you nailed it.
What a waste of time to “pretend” to be righteous. I would think that would kinda wear a person out, ya know?
Just be real and come clean with God. Stop being a “Great Pretender” like the Platters say.
Michael wrote:
“The substance of my post was that promoting dreams as the Word/voice/message of God in the N.T. is dangerous, and to be discouraged. I have seen many fall because they refused the advise not to put too much on “dreams”
Pr Nichael”
No it’s not Michael. It’s not dangerous….if it is FROM the Lord.
And it should not be discouraged….at all.
Dreams, visions, prophecies FROM the Lord are given for edification. They are given for warning. They are given for encouragement.
They are given for the body of Christ.
That’s a very, very good thing. God likes it when the body of Christ is encouraged, built up and warned.
Why? Because He loves His body.
What SHOULD be discouraged naturally, are the “fleshly’ words that don’t edify, encourage or build up, or come from Him. And, that puff up the individual speaking them, just like we see all throughout the Christian media and in a lot of our churches.
THAT is what should be discouraged. But prophecy is a very good gift. Paul said it. Go read it.
This dream given to Mario’s little girl, was from the Lord and it was precious and insightful.
It shouldn’t be discouraged and it shouldn’t be despised. God loves His children and he loves to encourage them. Young, old and in between.
It’s really sad when “religious” people try to put God in a box.
The harlot church can’t be fixed any more than our flesh can be saved – the command is to come out of her and not look back, but proceed on to the mountains, to the new thing that God is now doing at the end of this age.
Isa 43:14 This is what the Lord says– your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “For your sake I will send to Babylon and bring down as fugitives all the Babylonians, [fn] in the ships in which they took pride.
Isa 43:15 I am the Lord, your Holy One, Israel’s Creator, your King.”
Isa 43:16 This is what the Lord says– he who made a way through the sea, a path through the mighty waters,
Isa 43:17 who drew out the chariots and horses, the army and reinforcements together, and they lay there, never to rise again, extinguished, snuffed out like a wick:
Isa 43:18 “Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past.
Isa 43:19 See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the desert and streams in the wasteland.
I guess when He says to forget the former things, He really means it! The Jews missed their Messiah because they could not lay down the former things of Moses. In our time, we need to forget the church age, because it is over..
Watchful wrote:
“The harlot church can’t be fixed any more than our flesh can be saved – the command is to come out of her and not look back, but proceed on to the mountains, to the new thing that God is now doing at the end of this age.”
Good point watchful. You can’t put band-aids over cancerous wounds and think it’s going to get better. The roots are rotten and of no good use. They’ll be burned.
Get out while you can!
As Robert Winkler Burke said: ‘When you want to become the leak pluggers of doomed ships, you’re going down!” Why waste your time playing in a pretend church with pretend people and trying to make excuses for the pretenders?
What’s bad is bad. Like the dream, jump ship while you can, when you hear the voice of the Lord. Don’t stay on the party deck and try to save what’s doomed.
Amen, Heidi, Robert is right – and whatever we are looking forward to in the way of revival, it won’t be the harlot church that is revived – the bible tells us what will happen to the harlot church, and so does this dream. When I think about it, if I were a ‘minister’ I probably would close up shop and evacuate before it’s too late, and tell the people they don’t need to depend on ‘me’ any longer but that they need to learn to depend on the Lord! Sadly most ministers would probably consider they have too much to lose though.
I just read this yesterday and this morning this is what God gave me as the interpretation of the vision:
Mathew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
The two boats represent the narrow road and the broad road. The cruise ship represents the broad road (every pleasure being fullfilled, the easy life etc etc) and the other boat being the narrow road which takes one down a rough path where we are to purged and made white (do not conform to the pattern of this world). It’s referring to what kind of life we choose to live. What sacrifices are you making? Is your treasure here on earth or in heaven? We are meant to have trouble and be persecuted as Christians. If the devil doesn’t bother you than you are not walking the narrow road.
thanks
AT LAST!!!!
THANK YOU ANDREA for doing the MOST OBVIOUS thing a SPIRIT FILLED FOLLOWER OF CHRIST would do when given a dream/vision to interpret!
!ASK GOD!
Isn’t that what Joseph did? He didn’t run around and FIGURE IT OUT WITH HIS OWN MIND/KNOWLEDGE; TAKE A POLL; OR APPLY THE “LATEST” AND “GREATEST” CHURCH CULTURAL HYPE. These are the exact things that the FALSE PROPHETS did.
I joined with you Andrea in obedience and received the EXACT same answer from God when the dream was released for comments.
“My SHEEP hear MY VOICE, THEY KNOW ME, AND FOLLOW ME”
The narrow way is to FOLLOW JESUS ONLY, FORSAKING ALL OTHER WAYS INCLUDING OUR OWN WAYS.
WE ARE CALLED TO GIVE UP OUR LIFE FOR JESUS. WHAT IN GOD’S NAME DOES THAT MEAN TO PEOPLE THESE DAYS?
The broad way is the WAY OF THE WORLD.
THE WAY OF THE WORLD IS EVERYWHERE FOLKS…IT DOESN’T STOP AT THE WALLS OF THE CHURCH OR THE WALLS OF YOUR HOMES.
THE WAY OF THE WORLD IS A BELIEF SYSTEM, NOT A CULTURE SYSTEM. THE WAY OF THE WORLD IS EVERYWHERE PEOPLE ARE!
I hear over and over nothing but BLAME SATAN, BLAME SATAN.
That’s like blaming a DEAD MAN for all your woes.
DO YOU NOT BELIEVE SATAN WAS DEFEATED AT THE CROSS? DO YOU NOT BELIEVE IN THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD? SATAN is limited BY THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD….he is nothing more than an INSTRUMENT OF GOD…A SLAVE TO GOD’S BIDDING. God uses Satan for His plan and purpose to:
1)REFINE HIS CHILDREN 2Cor 12:7
2)TO TEST HIS CHILDREN’S FAITHFULNESS (Hello..read Jesus in the wilderness for 40 days)
3)TO AWAKEN THE SLEEPING 1Sam 18:10-12
STOP BLAMING EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN SINS!
TAKE UP YOUR CROSS (responsibility for your own sins) and FOLLOW AFTER JESUS ONLY.
By the way, YOUR FOOTPRINTS SHOULD BE IN HIS FOOTPRINTS….not Jesus carrying you…..where did you ever read Jesus carrying anyone in the bible?
What an incredible dream. It kinda reminds me of the ten virgins. Five being ready and the other five not being ready.
The church is also caught up in pleasure and not taking the times seriously like they should. It is a time to press into God and be prepared. The ragged ship was a ship prepared and the one nice, was not prepared. Awesome dream for sure.
Heidi et al
I knew i would get slammed for this but i will not shift because it is in the Word i have seen it happen. over a 44 year period folk who have lost faith because they lent/were encouraged to look toward dreams.
And I repeat Especially it is most unwise to encourage young children down this path.
If God has to give a Spirit filled person a “dream” to tell them something that is written in scripture, there is something seriously wrong with that persons spiritual well being.
Jer 23 4 “And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.”
note no fear no lacking !
It is the privilege/responsibility of the oversight before The Lord to preach sound doctrine to us all.
Jer 23 25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.
28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD”..
I did not say this, or dream it up, God has spoken! i just say the same as He.
I rest my case.
Relying on dreams for doctrine, is chaff. The wheat is the Word of God, Jesus, The Truth.
Pr Michael
No-one is relying on it for “doctrine”, my friend
Thanks Andrew I take your word for that .
I still hold that God says it is chaff, and to be discouraged.
And with respect for you, this is your web site i agree to not post if you fell I am too controversial
just pm me
Pr Michael
How does God speak? What did Joseph’s brothers think of dreams? Should we perhaps build a box with, “this is how God speaks and works” written on it?
Does the Bible really contain ALL there is to know about God?
Fact is, if we could figure out God completely, He wouldn’t be God!
A dream, any dream that would lead people away from the straight and narrow path, the Way, the Truth and Life, which IS JESUS, should be viewed as evil deception.
Is this such a dream?
Blessings, and All 4 Jesus!
Mario
Mario with that i go agree, i have never believed that this dream is evil. I am sorry if i have given anyone that impression.
Pr MIchael
Rober Burke
I don’t know why I keep responding to your poisonous hissings but I am sick of your attack on scripture. I and most on this sight love Jesus in others but I will only stake my eternity on scripture and the witness of the Spirit. Isn’t there someother site where people of the “Higher whatever” congregate that would enjoy your heretical ramblings. Take away from the prophesy and God will take away your name from the book of life. Rev. 22. OOPS! sorry I used scripture. Please sir repent before it is too late. I am grieved over your soul and sickened by your attack of the Word.
In love,
Mike
So many “personal” opinion, wrapped up in scripture. So many “‘I’ have seen for 44 years”. So many trying to make “their” point disguised as the Word or “their” visions and dreams. So many attempting to be “right”. So much self-righteousness…….the most ugliest of “my” sin.
Michael B
Michael,
I know you did not…
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Watchful wrote:
Nowadays I wonder and feel concerned about how ministers would go about obeying the call to come out of the harlot church, since the traditional way of being a ‘minister’ is all part of that apostate system. I try to put myself in their shoes and think what I would do, knowing we are at the end of the age, old things are passing away once again, and the Lord is shepherding His own. I really don’t know how I would respond to that call, would those that have a church close their churches? or re-form them somehow? One thing is for sure, I would put my position and ministry completely on the altar and truly be seeking the Lord for His will. But I’m just thinking today that it must be a perplexing kind of transitional time for those who understand.
——————————————
The first and very simple problem here is that someone’s paycheck is on the line. It’s just as simple as that. After all, Pastors do have mortgages and want their retirement secured.
What does a man do who just quits his job, especially in a time of high-unemployment, unless he is strong enough to really, I mean REALLY trust the Lord to provide?
The position of church leader has become a career choice with some formal training and a degree at the end. We have drifted so far away from the Biblical CALLING idea that a simple fisherman without any “training” would have a hard time becoming a leader in today’s church. I know of a large congregation who made it mandatory that anyone applying for a pastoral position had to have a doctorate.
And then there was Jesus…,calling 12 ordinary guys from all kinds of walks of life… Over 3.000 people accepted Christ as Lord and Savior after a simple fisherman preached a very plain sermon, which obviously was SPIRITUALLY CHARGED!
I believe that one of the most important end-time messages to be preached, even HAMMERED into people, must be that the CHRISTian life is NOT about people (including the preacher)
but ALL about CHRIST!
Blessings, and All 4 Jesus!
Mario
Michael, may I ask you a question?
Don’t know if you have a daughter or not, but if you did, and your beloved daughter came to you and said “Daddy, last night, I had a dream. And in that dream, Jesus came to me and told me how much He loves me and how He wants me to tell others about how much He loves them too. And to tell them He is real. Isn’t that great daddy?”
Now what would you tell your precious daughter?
Would you tell her to just forget about it? That it is just a silly dream?….Because after all, we have everything we need to know about Jesus written in His book the bible?
Mario: Good word brother. As with the dream, it seems that most in the “church”, and also seems some in this Post, do not want to hear the Truth, but only want what will tickle their ears.
The divorce rate in the “church” keeps pace with the world. And all that pastors do is try to make them feel OK about their sin, even offering classes for divorced people, tolerating their sin, rather than admonishing and instructing in righteousness. They are not even calling these men and women to repentance, as scripture commands.
How many Christian books are out there to try and sooth the consciences of those committing the sin of adultery by their divorce, claiming to know how to better interpret scripture to cover this sin? (Please know that it is not my intention to harm or hurt any who have been devastated by this process through no fault of their own).
This is but a small example of what this child’s dream is pointing to. But, as many have said here, the Harlot is a Harlot. Some have tried to put lipstick on a pig, or given the whore a new dress. But a Harlot is a Harlot, no matter how we try to (re)dress her.
How many here have tried as they may to find the Bride in their area? A place to fellowship with the “called out ones”?
T. Austin-Sparks has been my pastor for quite a while now. Born in 1888 and went to be with the Lord in 1971. He was not scholarly man, but educated by the Spirit.
If anyone is interested, his sermons and writings are wonderful. He understands the importance of Christ rule in our lives. His sermons and writings can be found here:
http://www.austin-sparks.net/index.html.
ALL of his books are free for the asking. Not even postage is charged, as was his wish; and the Lord has honored his request, There is a Request Form on this Site to order. My favorite is “The School of Christ”. Enjoy!
Thanks to all for your love for Jesus.
“May your gentleness be evident to all”
Yours in Christ,
Michael B
dreams, prophecies and visions are not to be tested or interpreted through eyes of mans emotions. We are supposed to be impartial, seeking always His higher will and putting our flesh and it’s emotional agenda’s to the side.
This requires complete loyalty to God and a willingness to give up the praises of all men.
Sarah
Mario said:
“What does a man do who just quits his job, especially in a time of high-unemployment, unless he is strong enough to really, I mean REALLY trust the Lord to provide?”
That’s true Mario, except that many ministers left lucrative career prospects to go into ministry in the first place, I just wish they could show the same trust in obeying the Lord to “come out of her” whatever that must entail – but I guess I’m missing the obvious and that is most have been corrupted and/or lulled to sleep in the harlot church and can’t hear that call to come out anyway.
Tenderwarrior, is it possible you are misunderstanding Robert Winkler Burke?
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Scripture is our “teacher”, but once we get beyond “knowing” the word, to “becoming” what it teaches, we don’t have to stay in school our whole life, the word becomes established in us and we in the word – I think that is what Robert is talking about. Scripture is not our God, it’s not to be an idol – unbelieving religious Jews get together and haggle and debate over scripture all the time and it doesn’t do them any good, they are still missing the One the scriptures are testifying to..
Watchful,
Tenderwarrior has very good reasons to say what he has concerning Robert Winkler Burke and his constant railing against scripture. Mr. Burke has made his opinions very well known on this forum about that subject. Let’s look at what he has to say in his latest post on this thread:
“Read the You Testament,
It’s better than scripture!
Read God humbly in others,
Have you got the picture?”
This isn’t the first time he’s talked about reading the “You Testament”. Notice what he says, “Read the You Testament, It’s better than scripture!”
Watchful, please be very careful and be a “Berean”… test EVERYTHING as the Word of God tells you to do. The statement Robert makes above, and many others he’s made that are like it, are unscriptural. Is “reading God” in others really “better than scripture” when it comes to knowing the truth?
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
Scripture is the supreme litmus test for knowing the truth. Robert Burke downplays the scripture and encourages us in post after post to follow vague impressions that we might have. He tells us to follow the “Christ in you” in others and ourselves. Watchful, yes Christ is in us, but there is also “sinful flesh” in us!
“The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:19)
“There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.” (Proverbs 14:12)
It is for that reason we are warned over and over again to test everything BY SCRIPTURE, not by a feeling we have in ourselves or something we see in others.
Watchful, I don’t just read what people post on this forum, when I see others posting things here that cause red flags, I also go to their website if they have one, and try to find out as much as I can about what they really believe. Here’s just one thing among MANY things that concerned me on Robert’s site:
Robert Burke said: “I believe Arnold Murray of Shepherd’s Chapel, Gravette, Arkansas (www.shepherdschapel.com) has the correct biblical explanation with the Three Earth Ages. Perhaps demon spirits have lived in others hundreds of times. So if we confuse an indwelt demon with our own spirit, we might feel we lived 600 times before. But Murray says we all lived but once in the First Earth Age, which was the time of Satan’s rebellion. And Murray says we all live just once again in this, the Second Earth Age. Therefore now is most everybody’s second and last chance to come to terms with God. The elect, who appear to have been approved of God because of whatever they did for Him in the First Earth Age (we don’t know why, because of memory loss,) perhaps volunteer for Second Earth Age duty as God’s useful vessels who have limited free will.”
Watchful, this is just pure fantasy! Robert has reached into a New Age grab bag, and because he fails to test by the scripture, he believes in a theory that promotes reincarnation and the idea that the elect are here on earth now because we were preapproved by God for something we did in a past life, and that we volunteered to come back to earth for a “second earth age duty”!
This is the kind of road we end up going down when we fail to give the written Word of God the supreme place it deserves. Remember, it is GOD Himself who tells us to test everything!
Finally, I urge you to reconsider the following point that you made: “Scripture is our “teacher”, but once we get beyond
“knowing” the word, to “becoming” what it teaches, we don’t have to stay in school our whole life.”
Please read Psalm 119 and consider what it’s saying.
No matter how far along in the Lord I get, I find his Word my delight. I believe in the abiding presence of Christ as much as any do on this forum and I can tell you the Word of God does not take away from that in the least. I don’t “worship a book” as some like to say with derision, and it is not an idol. Scripture points me to Jesus! Scripture is not something we do away with once we’ve grown up. The more we love God the more we will love his Word. The enemy would love for you to close your bible! Here is the verse people like to quote to justify why they no longer need the bible once they have Christ:
“You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.” (John 5:39-40)
Does this verse say that you no longer need the bible once you have Christ?
No, it addresses those who cling to the Word of God, but REFUSE to come to Jesus. It doesn’t say once you come to Jesus you have no further need of God’s Word! What did the Apostle Paul think about these things? Here’s what he wrote Timothy:
“But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:14-17)
His blessings Watchful,
Mike
Watchful said:
“That’s true Mario, except that many ministers left lucrative career prospects to go into ministry in the first place, I just wish they could show the same trust in obeying the Lord to “come out of her” whatever that must entail”
A Word from the Lord:
“Oh pastors, teachers, workers in My field, the Lord is crying out to you:
“You have left your first love! You once enjoyed deep and abiding fellowship with Me, and you tasted of my goodness and you KNEW how sweet it was to walk in My freedom and My liberty!
You KNEW it!
But you have allowed your careers, your worldly pleasures, your reputations and the fear of man to blind you to My sweet, sweet fellowship and My Holy presence….these have come between you and Me! I called you in the early days and you obeyed the call to follow after Me, but now you have allowed those worldly cares to ROB you, steal from you, take from you that freedom and peace that you once knew and delighted it!
You once TASTED it my son! And it was SWEET! I was your everything and that was ALL that mattered! It was ALL you wanted and nothing more, but to just fellowship with ME! And I filled you with My presence and My joy!
What happened my child? What happened to you? Come back, come back, come back to Me!
I want you to return my child! Return unto My gates! I am waiting for your return!
Come back Pastors and teachers, workers in my field! Come back to your FIRST love! I am crying out to you now! Return unto Me, the lover of your soul!”
Amen.
Watchful wrote:
…many ministers left lucrative career prospects to go into ministry in the first place…
————————————-
That is a very interesting point! Why would anyone in their “right mind” leave a lucrative career and take on a job that, according to Scripture, is not very glamorous and bears a lot of hardship? Unless, of course, the job has been re-invented and become a “man-made” occupation with a very different job-description.
(Then there are those who (usually in less wealthy countries), follow God’s CALLING and willingly pay the “price”.)
Michael,
I absolutely understand your concerns. For many years I have seen people misuse and abuse something that is intended for good. Although a knife is a wonderful and helpful tool, many people have been stabbed over the years.
Should we now ban all of the knives? And here lies the problem.
In Scripture we read that God used dreams as a tool in order to speak to people–to warn them, give them direction or just simply to encourage. This “tool” has been misused and abused in many ways too.
If we could find a Scripture that clearly indicates that God, because of the abuse, has decided never to use the “dream-tool” again, I am sure this dream would not have been posted in the first place.
I believe that we must be careful not to fall prey to the “pendulum effect”, going from one extreme to another. Many of the old style preachers left out the grace aspect, only preaching, “repent or you’ll burn”. Then came the modern day preachers who preached nothing but grace and more grace, leaving out the essentially important aspect of repentance and the fear of the Lord.
—————————————————————————–
The following, in my opinion, is a very good and balanced view…
Sarah wrote:
dreams, prophecies and visions are not to be tested or interpreted through eyes of mans emotions. We are supposed to be impartial, seeking always His higher will and putting our flesh and it’s emotional agenda’s to the side.
This requires complete loyalty to God and a willingness to give up the praises of all men.
Sarah
—————————————————————————–
Blessings, and All 4 Jesus!
Mario
Wow! I think I should share something here…
On Sunday evening Manila/NZ time my wife and I were having quite a “heated” text chat on Skype regarding “the fear of man” and how it – “the fear of man” was rooted in caring what other people thought about us and that true freedom was coming to a place where we didn’t care about what other people thought about us.
We were both kind of “preaching at” each other texting back and forth and then the following words came to me and I wrote them down and pressed “enter”, the words were as follows, “Wanting people to accept us is a sin against God” I paused as if arrested by the Holy Spirit and re-read what I’d just written, wow! that understanding it was as if something just fell off me…
The Lord has been taking me through this “fear of man” issue for quite a few years now, like peeling layers off an onion, one of my favourite verses and yet not completely experienced by me is Prov 29:25 (NIV):
“Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe”
If wanting people to accept us is a sin against God – because all our needs are met in God – and we submit to this truth and let go of wanting or expecting anyone to accept us knowing that God has already accepted us then when no one does accept us we won’t be angry or bitter or twisted or agrieved or offended we will actually only be saddened and feel only what the Holy Spirit felt or what Jesus felt when people didn’t accept Him or accept what He said.
Jesus was a man of sorrows and aquainted with grief. In the old testament we read in Isaiah 63:9 (NASB):
“In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the angel of His presence saved them; In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old”.
and we are also told in the new testament that the Holy Spirit is our “comforter” and Paul gives an awesome encouraging word in 2 Cor 1:3-11 (NIV):
“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows. If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort. We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many”.
It really is all about us and God – an intimate personal relationship with the Lord – and as God brings us to this place/process of death to the fear of man then others around us whom God has also brought to this place/process of the fear of man will also share this burden because of what the Lord has revealed to them but we’ll view it as fellowship (fellows in a ship – like galley slaves all chained to our stations and yet willingly so) doing what we do for the glory of God and not being affected, or moved, or shifted off course by whatever opinions of our fellow man which come our way.
I believe that this is a great area of victory which the Lord wants to bring us all – all of us His children – into in our walks with Him…
Heidi, Good word, amen..
Mike – whoa nelly! I’m not in any way advocating closing our bibles, just saying that it’s not enough to “know” it, we need the word to become part of us, our minds transformed by it. Christ in me should recognize Christ in you – when we get enough of the word “in” us we will begin to recognize truth when it is spoken, it doesn’t have to be a direct quote from the bible, but it will agree with and be of the same spirit as the word of God. I haven’t looked into Robert’s website and dont’ know this Arnold Murray you mentioned. If I agree with some of what a person says, doesn’t necessarily mean I’m endorsing their entire life and ministry anyhow..
Accepting some of what a person says doesn’t necessarily mean accepting everything they say – as you said, there is also flesh, but that doesn’t have to rule out the “Christ in you”. There was something else Robert was talking about a while back that corresponded to something I was struggling through to grasp that had to do with a person speaking the word of God, the word of truth, but not with the spirit of Christ, with an antichrist spirit that actually negated the word spoken. It went along with what the Lord was attempting to teach me, it explained why I was sometimes confused why I couldn’t “receive” on some occasions what someone was saying even when they were quoting the bible! Doesn’t mean I have to believe everything this man says, has said or will say in life, but so far what I have heard on this forum, the parts that I have felt I understood anyway, I have no argument with. Sometimes I check things with the bible, sometimes I check things with the spirit of Christ in me, where the word has already taken hold and I don’t have to look it up every time if it’s already in me. Robert can speak for himself, but if I have understood correctly, I gathered this was along the lines of what he was talking about, challenging us to not just know the word, but to be transformed by it, to be a living epistle ourselves. God is alive, His Son is alive, He didn’t write a book and then die or disappear, we have a living relationship with Him now, He is the Living Word. Hope that clarifies better what I was trying to get at..
While I do believe this dream was a Prophetic dream of the laodecia,, short of falling away church, and the true church of Jesus Christ,, may I ask what is our part in all of this? I believe there is much more to this dream and I pray we do not miss this.
please remember there was one that jumped ship to the ferry bost full of the true church of jesus Christ.
I posted this on the forum today and believe it should also be posted here.
PLEASE SAINTS, yes we know much of the church is as Laodecia – we certainly know this, but let not fall short of testing our own selves also!.
NOT ALL THE CHURCH ARE IN LAODICIA – let us judge fairly. And those whom are in Laodecia – DO NOT harden you hearts against them, SOME will come out from among them, MANY won’t.
We can discuss and cuss them until the cows come home, when all we should truely be doing is living a life that truely reflects Christ, that they may see the truth from the lies BEING A LIGHT IN ALL THE DARKNESS AND CONFUSSION,
SAINTS – gather together with a handful of true believers, put a add in the saturday christian section of your local newspaper if need be – hand out fliers asking for those whom are looking for a true fellowship of the Lord Jesus Christ and need minintering too to come and fellowship, this requires you opening up your hoome or gathering at the city park, etc. and then begin to offer a safe place for the disolutional unhappy ones to come to, that they may come out from the Laodecia church, raised up to be true desciples of Jesus Christ
THIS IS NOT A PLACE TO COME TO, TO JUST DISCUSS HOW BAD THE CHURCH IS! – THIS IS A PLACE HERE TO ALLOW THEM TO HEAR THE TRUTH FOR IT IS THE TRUTH THAT SHALL SET THEM FREE, AND TO BE LOVED AND MENTERED AND TO MATURE IN THE LORD JESSUS CHRIST, TO HAVE AGAPE FELLOWSHIP AND BECOME A TRUE COMUNITY OF BELIEVERS,
SADLY THIS IS WHERE IT STOPS! We come out of the institunal church and we become conplainers and debaters?
WE HAVE TO STEP UP AAND BE THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST – AND GO AFTER THESE! – RESCUE THEM – CREATING A SAFE PLACE. TO BE, BECOME A GATHERING WHERE THE PROPLE CAN COME TOO AND BE NURSED BACK INTO SPIRITUAL HEALTH AND BACK INTO THE SHEEPFOLD, RECEIVING THE TRUTH OF THE WORD OF GOD AND THEIR PLACE WITHIN THE BODY OF CHRIST!
SAINTS, WE ARE NOT TO STAY IN THE DESSERT FOREVER. THE ISRAELITES DIED IN THE WILDERNESS. WE ARE TO BE A HOLY LIVING SET APART FOR CHRIST PEOPLE, A LIVING SACRIFICE FOR CHRIST’S SHEEP WITH A MISSION OF RESCUING THOSE WHOM WE ARE ABLE.
JUST HOW MANY DO YOU THINK ARE OUT THERE WHO ARE SO DISOLUTIONED WITH THE CHURCH?, either still in the system or have come out and have no real agape fellowship?
WE WANT REVIVAL??? – - THEN TAKE CHARGE!!! – - FORUMS ARE FOR THE MOST PART AN EXCAPE TO SIT BEHIND THE COMPUTER AND FIND FELLOWSHIP, AND MAKE OUR VOICES AND OPINIONS HEARD AND PRAISE GOD, SOME DO NEED TO COME INTO THE TRUTH FOR SURE AND GOD CAN USE FORUMS FOR THIS PURPOSE, BUT THEY CAN BECOME A CRUCH FOR MANY!!! – ACTUALLY ADDICTIVE – WHILE THE CHURCH NEEDS THE REAL CHURCH TO STAND UP AND A FEW GATHER TOGETHER AND BECOME THE REFUGE FOR THE FEW LOOKING FOR THE REAL THING!
GUYS THIS IS WHERE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS LEADING ME, AND I BELIEVE THE CHURCH , THOSE WHO WILL LISTEN TO HIS VOICE.
WE ARE MISSING A HUGE HARVESTFIELD OUT THERE – THIS TRUELY SADDENS ME! WE MUAST LOSE OUR LIFE AND BEGIN TO INVEST IT INTO OTHERS, REAL PEOPLE FACE TO FACE!
WE WILL TRUELY LOSE OUR SALTINESS IF WE DO NOT GET OUT AND BEGIN TO LOOK FOR A FEW LIKE MINDED SHEEP TO BRING TOGETHER AND TO FELLOWSHIP WITH AND BECOME KINGDOM MINDED AND TO HELP AND FIND THOSE WHO ARE FELLING ALONE WITH NO TRUE BODY OF BELIEVERS TO FELLOWSHIP WITH.
WE WHO ARE THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, ARE RESPONSIBLE AS CHRIST’S SHEEP, TO BECOME THAT REFUSE.
There are MILLIONS who have left the organized church structure in the last decade, AND WE SIT IDLE! or join a forum to discuss how horrible the church is.
Guys may I encoueage you to – STEP UP TO THE PLATE – get off of our buttox and and begin to get out and seek to find a few saints full of the Holy Spirit, part of of the Kingdom of God who are the real deal and to begin pray and seek God to bring in thoses who are unhappy with the church system and to rescue them from being stagnant and falling further away – OR WORSE YET, THINK THEY ARE SAVED AND ARE NOT!
EACH OF THESE SMALL GROUPS SHOULD BECOME A LIGHT ON A HILL AND IT IS JESUS THAT WILL DRAW THE PEOPLE TO THIS LIGHT.
WHERE WILL THE LORD FIND US IN THESE LAST DAYS?
I ASK THAT ALL PRAY ABOUT WHAT HAS BEEN SAID HERE, THIS IS THE FATHERS HEART BEING SPOKEN HERE, BEFORE RESPONDING AND BE CAREFUL NOT TO TAKE AWAY FROM WHAT HAS BEEN SAID HERE, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT SOULS ARE AT THE FOREFROUNT HERE AND IT IS TRUE GOD WANTS NONE TO PERISH as we have seen in this vision
BLESSINGS, LYNN
Thanks Mike for taking the time to study those that post on here. I am short on time and so thanks for pointing out about what Robert truly believes. You are very right in what you say. Whe’re not called to flakedom, we are called to be a people of self control, of love and of sound mind. We are called not to preach heresy and to lead the naive astray. We are called to have the mind of Christ, this is what brings unity to the body. And the only way to get the mind of Christ is by the word of God and prayer. This is how we become united actually.
Mike said:
Finally, I urge you to reconsider the following point that you made: “Scripture is our “teacher”, but once we get beyond
“knowing” the word, to “becoming” what it teaches, we don’t have to stay in school our whole life.”
Please read Psalm 119 and consider what it’s saying.
No matter how far along in the Lord I get, I find his Word my delight.
End quote.
We don’t have to stay in school our whole life???!!!!
Phew, that’s a dangerous comment. Frankly a person who holds to that comment above, is not to be heard at all since they speak out of their own selves. And who wants to follow or hear a “self”??
Brothers and sisters, if the word of God has become to you something that has exhausted itself…..then you are in serious spiritual trouble!!! Woe is you.
The bible says that we are to “examine ourselves to see if we are still in the faith.” How do we examine? By reading the word continually so that we can come to continuous repentance in our own lives.
Lord help us!!!
Sarah
Watchful
I sure hope that I have misunderstood Robert. But truthfully I believe from his writings and web site that he is in dwelt by the spirit of antichrist. Hopefully I am wrong but I have a deep concern for his soul. I fear what may happen to him if he continues down this path but I make no claims to be a prophet. Please pray I may have discernment because I don’t want to act unChristlike to any.
As far as the worshipping the scriptures. Well I do in this sense. The Bible in John 1:1,14 make it clear that the Word is God and is Jesus so I certainly worship the Word. Not the physical book but the spiritual words. I like what Angus Buchan said of the bible though–”the bible is Jesus in print”. I have had times when the I just wept as I read scripture because the Spirit of Christ was so alive. Mike Helms stated much better than I can how I feel in his post so I will say no more on that.
God bless and “beware of dogs”
Mike
Andrew J Horton wrote:
…the fear of man” was rooted in caring what other people thought about us and that true freedom was coming to a place where we didn’t care about what other people thought about us.
————————————————-
Fear of man means focusing on man instead of God.
When David faced Goliath, he did not really see him because he was so focused on His God and His power. Goliath seemed like a little shrimp compared to David’s God.
But there is another aspect of the focus on man instead of God…
When the pastors of the church we helped plant turned “progressive” and on the ‘cutting edge’ modern (i.e. seeker sensitive), I felt sick in my spirit.
“For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” (Gal.1:10)
Blessings, and All 4 Jesus!
Mario
Thanks tenderwarrior – good name by the way..
Sarah, you are misunderstanding me, and I have certainly not exhausted the word of God, which I love and read every day of my life. Are we called to know the word only (Tree of Knowledge), are we not called to be changed and conformed to it (Tree of Life)? Even the devil knows the word of God, but it does him no good. Jesus spoke the truth, and lived the truth, He WAS the truth, He didn’t need to go around quoting scripture in people’s faces all the time. Most of the ancient Israelites didn’t even have a copy of their own to search through – also it was written to be heard, not looked at. I wonder how many of the early church had personal copies of the gospels and apostles’ letters to pore over every day? It was before printing presses – and yet, what a powerful time it was for the people of the Way and if Jesus were not so gracious we would be ashamed, we who read the bible every day!
I really think in general we need to be careful of rejecting, condemning or being afraid of people when they believe some things differently from ourselves. How grateful I am that the Lord did not reject me or shunt me aside ten years ago when I was diving into “the River” at the Toronto Blessing and being steeped in the false prosperity deception. Ten years from now, I hope to be in an even better place than I am today – we are on a journey, not static. I have a neighbour who used to belong to the Mormon church, perhaps if I took that attitude of waving a ‘silver cross’ at her as though she were some kind of vampire, she might still be in the Mormons instead of being delivered from that deception and having her trust in the written scriptures restored. God is on His throne, so I don’t have to be.
WHERE IS THE LOVE?
I have read about and heard many presumptuous “Christians” predicting the imminent judgment on the Laodicean churches, this nation and ultimately the world. What I find to be sad is that in almost all of this talk, there is very little mentioned in the way of heart-broken concern for the people that they believe will soon perish. I am reminded of Jonah and how he was angered with the Lord when he did not destroy Nineveh. But what did the Lord say to Jonah?
Jonah 4:10-11
But the LORD said, “You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night. 11 And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?”
Don’t misunderstand me. God is a jealous God and His wrath and anger are to be greatly respected and feared. I too know that unless the people repent, the wrath of God’s judgment is soon due to come. But I also think about how merciful God is and believe that as His children we should be praying for mercy and asking him to pour out His spirit on all flesh, that all might come to repentance.
I see much self-righteousness amongst many in this time. Especially those who have been given a prophetical insight to the times that we are in. The more one’s eyes are opened by our Lord, seems the greater the temptation of self-righteousness. Many become resolved to the fact that they are indeed among a VERY FEW of His elect and start to deem themselves worthy of such. Once they reach that point, they tend to become very quick to judge and it is difficult to find genuine mercy in them for fallen humanity. Again, I am reminded of the scripture:
James 2:13
For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
I believe there are many that would be very angry when they reached heaven if were to find that most of humanity was there. But who of them would be in a position to cast them out? Only the ONE who had never sinned! The last time I checked that was the Lord Jesus Christ and He did not cast a stone at the adulteress, even though He was the one in the crowd without sin that could have justifiably done so! (Never forget, if you have found God’s favor it is BECAUSE HE CHOSE YOU, AND NOTHING YOU HAVE DONE MAKES YOU WORTHY).
I keep hearing people say that “if God does not do something to this nation soon, He will have to repent for Sodom and Gomorrah”. I often wonder if these people really realize how fierce God’s anger can be and do they really wish that on their worldly neighbor?
I too am deeply troubled about the state of our churches, our nation and the world and my heart is deeply burdened for His grace and salvation to be extended to all men. We read where God too desires all men to be saved:
1 Tim 2:1-7
1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made FOR ALL MEN, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 WHO DESIRES ALL MEN TO BE SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself A RANSOM FOR ALL, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
Is this not why He sacrificed His only Son!?! (For God so love a few? many? the world!)
It is time to for true believers to spend more time on their knees worshiping the Lord Jesus Christ (the first commandment) and praying for their neighbors out of GENUINE love and concern (the second commandment) and less time sharing opinions and disputing the same.
1 Corinthians 13:1
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, BUT HAVE NOT LOVE, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
Are you pleading with the Lord Jesus Christ for Him to send laborers into His harvest? Will you lay down your life for your friends or just verbally assault them?
Is your desire above all to bring Glory to God? Could this all become a stumbling block to those seeking salvation?
Let’s seek the Lord Jesus Christ and ask Him to search our hearts in this matter.
Lynn, the wilderness is exactly where we are supposed to die – this is it’s purpose actually. Wilderness is an allegory for the cross in our lives. Flesh cannot inherit the promises, cannot enter the Promised Land. The generation of Israelites who died in the wilderness was a living parable of the death of our carnal nature, the younger generation represents the “new man”, Christ in us, our new nature by which we enter the sabbath rest of God (Promised Land). It’s amazing to me how that whole very real saga in Egypt and being delivered out of it was a parable for the life of the new covenant believer today! Moses had to go through that same experience before he was qualified to lead the children of Israel out – and he lead them through the exact same wilderness he had been herding his sheep around in for 40 years, while his ‘old man’ was being crucified, so he knew it like the back of his hand and was therefore a very suitable guide!
To Watchful, Observer, and Lynn-
Watchful, you said:
“How grateful I am that the Lord did not reject me or shunt me aside ten years ago when I was diving into “the River” at the Toronto Blessing and being steeped in the false prosperity deception.”
Yes, but how wonderful if you’d never gotten caught up in the first place! God is gracious to us, but tells us to “test everything” (1 Thessalonians 5:21) because we can save ourselves a lot of trouble if we do.
When I witness someone teaching wrong doctrine, or downplaying God’s Word over and over again, it should be a warning to me to be on guard. I will not allow that junk in my life. Should I be surprised if I end up going astray if I ignore warning signs that are right there before me? This is what’s been happening here Watchful; there have been PLENTY of warning signs concerning Mr. Burke’s posts.
Observer:
I posted “Jesus invites the lukewarm church to dinner!” to my website during the release of my first song about “the church”.
http://www.songsofjesus.com/blog/jesus-invites-the-lukewarm-church-to-dinner/
It is one of the greatest lessons I learned about addressing the “lukewarm church” and is exactly what you are talking about…
Mercy triumphs over judgment!
Lynn,
I agree! Sitting home alone is not the answer. You have made some REALLY excellent points!
Mike
watchful:
Lynn, the wilderness is exactly where we are supposed to die – this is it’s purpose actually. Wilderness is an allegory for the cross in our lives. Flesh cannot inherit the promises, cannot enter the Promised Land. The generation of Israelites who died in the wilderness was a living parable of the death of our carnal nature, the younger generation represents the “new man”, Christ in us, our new nature by which we enter the sabbath rest of God (Promised Land
Lynn
Yes I garee the wilderness is where God can do his best work in so many of us, and it is this wilderness that flesh does many times die as we seek God and become – TOTALLY DEPENDANT ON HIM – but I see to many who have been in the wilderness and remain in the wilderness angry at the church thinking they are so far better and continue to bad mouth the church.
The wilderness was to be temporary, not 40 years, and then die physically and some spiritually there.
Moses lead the Jews out of the bondage of Egypt, like us coming out of the Institutional church, But they including Moses never left the wilderness – Why? – might be worth looking up. God would not allow them too, read and see why. Mostly because of their unbelief, and in Moses case anger, .but please read it anyway.
God is raising up a people that will be prepared to help those who come out and we are to have not hardened our hearts towards them, and I believe the Lord has shown me there will be a few pastors that will weep between the pourch and alter in deep repentance, also that will need restoring and we must lose ourselves and our atitudes be ready to reach this huge harvest of souls that have been held in such deception, our we will not be used, and they will lose their saltiness..
All hell is about to be released in the not so far away future, we have the answer, and we are the light that many will be drawn too.
This dream showed one calling out entending a hand, to the ones held captive by the party ship, this is really important to notice, and it also showed one jumping onto the Ferry bost leaving the Cruiz/ party ship.
We are to be those who reach out, who call them to safety, into the light, not to harden our hearts towards them. – YES DO NOT PARTAKE OF THEIR SINS, BUT ALLOW YOUR HEART TO BE READY TO REACH OUT TO THEM. GOD TRUELY WANTS NONE TO PERISH.
God Bless, Lynn
What a wonderful word from Observer. :) We ARE called to love and have mercy. All the harsh fiery blasting is not NT really at all. God will be the judge of all, we are called to love the neighbour and pray for them crying out that they will come to repentance.
Amen,
Sarah
Wow!! Some excellent thoughts and words from Lynn and Mike again too! Balance, balance, balance. Self control, sound mindedness, not being tossed to and fro from bad doctrine to another bad doctrine.
All seasoned with LOVE, MERCY and all the fruits of the spirit. I agree that many that come out of the churches are speaking out of their own hurt.
We are REQUIRED to not forsake the fellowship of one another. If we do not fellowship we are not in the will of the Father. Of course if we are living in a persecuted nation where we haven’t found a believer then the Lord will provide. But we have to fellowship with other believers and subject ourselves one to another. No such thing as rebellion and defiance and railing accusations against the world around us. This is not from God.
Sarah
“This dream showed one calling out entending a hand, to the ones held captive by the party ship, this is really important to notice, and it also showed one jumping onto the Ferry bost leaving the Cruiz/ party ship.
We are to be those who reach out, who call them to safety, into the light, not to harden our hearts towards them. – YES DO NOT PARTAKE OF THEIR SINS, BUT ALLOW YOUR HEART TO BE READY TO REACH OUT TO THEM. GOD TRUELY WANTS NONE TO PERISH.”
Amen, Lynn..and I have noticed a spirit of pride and lack of love when it comes to those with a deception, or sometimes just when disagreeing over scripture – that just tells me that more time is still needed in that wilderness. ;)
But just because we are in the wilderness doesn’t mean the Lord is not alive and well in our hearts, and that He can’t impact those we come into contact with in our lives – I wouldn’t recommend taking matters into our own hands but if we just kind of do the normal thing and allow Him to do what He does best. Having walked away from my dead works, I don’t want to be found taking them up again.
I can’t say my time in “the River” was a complete loss, I have learned by experience to have great confidence in God’s ability to deliver, I understand more about what is helpful and what is not in terms of communicating or praying for those who are deceived in some way, and I don’t look down on such ones because I was once in their shoes. Right now I feel burdened for pastors and church leaders who are trapped in this way – they have so much more to lose in coming out of the harlot church, they have more to overcome, livelihoods and reputations to lose, it’s just more difficult for them.
But overall, I hear the call is to come out of Sodom and Gomorrah and head to the mountains where God is found, not to look back anymore like Lot’s wife, lest I become rooted to the spot and unable to go forward. That pillar of salt speaks of self-righteousness and being pickled in our own pickle juice – something I want to avoid!
Wow, people are really hurting. We don’t know personally what all that people have went through, and we don’t know that they believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is for today. Because Acts 2 is for today. Peter said it was for all.
Acts 2
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
It is a separate experience
Acts 8:14-17
14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
This is for everyone, and then God is the same, He never changes, so He will speak to us the ways He has always spoke to His people, it comes with being baptized in the Holy Spirit. He speaks to us in His word, in dreams, visions, and yes there has been known in the bible visitations. But it would be nothing like what we have seen in certain prophetic circles. There would be a real fear of the Lord, and your life would be totally changed.
We do have to be cautious in these days of a anti christ deception. And we do bring what we have received to be looked at prayed over and inspected. We as individuals also need those we are personally accountable to, and transparent. NOT YES MEN OR WOMEN, but those who tell you like they see it.
Also, the signs, the manifestations are not our goal, our goal is to always continue to know our Lord more intimately through His Son, and the power of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. Jesus is the Head of the church, He is the Groom for the church to have an all consuming passion for, and we embrace His desires for our own. He prayed that we would be one with Him, as He is One with the Father. Everything else, every miracle, any dream, is a benefit of pursuing Him, He is our goal.
I need to say that some who have come out of the churches are still not in the wilderness – if that’s you then don’t be intimidated by religious spirits and get into the wilderness to die to your self. Even Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days and nights which speaks of Moses’ 40 years as well as the Israelites’ 40 years in the wilderness. Your true Shepherd is faithful and well able to shepherd you without the help of man. Without the wilderness, we will not be prepared to do the works that have been prepared in advance for us, however humble those works might be.
….when Lot was told to leave the city of Sodom he was told to go to the mountains, but Lot wanted to go to Zoar instead – but the fear of the Lord eventually caused Lot to obey and head out to the mountains – there are some who need to do that, who need to leave their Zoar and head out for the mountain wilderness… (Gen. 19) The original command to Lot fleeing Sodom was “Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!”
There is definitely another view that we can examine, and that one is this “are we proud that we have been in the wilderness?”.
The other thought that we can think on is this:
Is it possible to be in the “wilderness” while being in the institutionalized church?
I propose that God has His people in all walks of life, and He loves them. It IS possible to be sold out to Jesus AND operate within the walls of the traditional church. I am one who has done that for 9yrs. AND, if the Lord wills, am willing to do it again for another 9yrs if He wants me to.
just some thoughts,
Sarah
Some more thought.
If I stand in the building of a traditional church, and love the people within, does that make me from Babylon??
Sarah
Robert Winkler Burke
You said in your post:
What if the cruise ship represented the lazy rapture church and all its vain scripture warriors, who cannot believe Christ-in-you!!! They cannot salute Christ-in-you now! They think they are not on a vain cruise, but they are even now! As Christ returns in glory quickly to live inside man, the vain continue to be vain and will not see!
Comment:
1- What do you mean by “vain scripture warriors, who cannot believe Christ-in you?”
2- Why does being a scripture warrior preclude believing that Christ lives in us by His Holy Spirit?
3- Your comment could be read as though you abhore scripture? Is that true? Please explain to us.
Sarah (motherofnations),
You’ve brought up some very good points/questions. I hope it will spark some discussion because I think your questions need to be asked and given some serious answers. I have one more question to add to what you’ve already asked…
Have we allowed for the possibility that it could be the enemy that has led us into the wilderness and not God?
Robert Winkler Burke
In your post you said:
The “A” Seers usher in the New Times of God not as vainglorious preachers, teachers, prophets, apostles, healers, sages…… No, they usher in the Kingdom of God as indwelt servants of Father God Almighty in ways indistinguishable — and EVEN GREATER — than when Jesus did it indwlet of Father two-thousand years ago.
Comment:
The more of your beliefs that you reveal in your posts, the more unchristian and unbiblical you sound. Your Jesus doesn’t sound like the Jesus of the bible who is the living word of God and in complete agreement with the written word of God.
If your “A Seers” are not the preachers, teachers, prophets, apostles, etc that God placed in the church, then it doesn’t sound to me that your “A Seers” are a part of the body of Christ (His church).
Your “New Times of God” are not new at all. They are all a part of the Church Age which started some 2000 years ago. If you have something “New”, I am here to tell you that it is not from the God of Abraham, Issiac, and Jacob, perhaps some of the “Strange Fire” that Andrew has been warning us about.
If you want us to accept your testimony, you will have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are as much a part of God as is the Father, and that they individually have their own personalities and places in the Godhead.
You will also have to testify that Jesus Christ is the God that you serve, and that He is your only savior and Lord of your life.
You can be wrong about the rapture and still be a child of God, but you cannot be wrong about the Jesus that will save you. Only the true Jesus of the Bible has the authority and power to save anyone. Believing in any other Jesus will only land you in the Lake of Fire, with Satan and all of his followers.
You describe the Kingdom of God as indwelt servants of Father God Almighty in ways indistinguishable.
My bible describes the Kingdom of God as saints who have been indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who have Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and who do the will of the Father.
It sounds to me as if your gospel is different than the gospel we believe found in the Bible. We are warned is Galatians 1:6-9:
GAL 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel– 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Don’t be eternally condemned by preaching “another gospel”. Believe what the Bible says, and be saved. God does not change, and neither does His Word.
“Michael, may I ask you a question?”
Fine Heidi
Yes i have two, both young adults now. and grand daughters, two filled with the Holy Spirit, both with a good vision in The Lord.
I would have told them fine, If you think it may have some relevance to you, then make sure you test it against the Word of God, make sure it is scriptural, and if it is. then lean to the scripture and do not place too much emphasis on the dream.
Mario
“though a knife is a wonderful and helpful tool, many people have been stabbed over the years.
Should we now ban all of the knives? And here lies the problem. ”
NO!
And yes, the Word of God is like a sharp two edged sword and intended to separate the thoughts and intentions of our heart. I delight in its use on me Psm 149 comes to mind and Hebrews 4 12. Over the years i have seen pastors use their own egos as if it were this sWord , wounding many. God will hold them to account.
I am delighted to say that after the years of walking with Him., scripture that i thought I new well, can still surprise and excite me, with an insight i had not seen prior. His Word has remained forever fresh. I pray more folk would learn to be content with, and trust, what it is to us the Bread of Life
Michael B
In 44 years you see, hear and do a lot. I have made mistakes – i am not proud of them The experience still stands good -if I learn from it. and can offer to others.
Is that not what we endeavor to do here?
Most of those who helped when i was young, are asleep now in Christ, some had 60+ Spirit filled years . Their testimony, experience in the New Life, and instruction in the Word. has stood me in good stead.
I praise the Lord for it.
Pr Michael
Time spent in Egypt represents our being lost and a slave to our flesh, or sinful nature.
The Passover of the first born represents our salvation by the blood of Jesus applied to our hearts.
Crossing the Red Sea represents our baptism by water, spirit, and fire (one baptism).
The time in the wilderness represents our conversion from walking in the flesh, until we can walk in the Spirit as a way of life (walk by faith-not by sight).
Entering the promised land represents our life in the Spirit (under God’s control).
While Satan might tempt us to return to the flesh after tasting life in the Spirit, God would never lead us back into the wilderness.
The flesh (wilderness) is controlled by Satan. The bible says in Romans 7:18 that:
18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. God would never lead us back into the flesh. It is His purpose to lead us out of the flesh, and into the Spirit, to remain forever.
God’s plan for His children is that they remain in the Spirit and under His control, until eternity ends (maybe even longer).
A life controlled by the spirit and a life that operates under the unction of the Holy Ghost, is a life that is rooted securely and firmly in the word of God, and in deep, ruthlessly honest prayer. Not a talk about praying, not a pretention of praying, not a surface spirituality. But raw honesty before an awesome and glorious Father.
I have had personal revival in this state as laid out above. I believe that true revival comes from nothing other than this. Those that worship must worship in spirit (heart to heart prayer) and in truth (the word of God).
When i speak of personal revival, I’m talking about operating under the unction of the sword of the Spirit of God with signs and wonders and the hearts of men coming to true repentance as they entered my presence.
This is the first time that I have shared it in this fashion. i know that as soon as something is brought out to the public then we lose God’s reward. For this reason I try not to share, because i want His favour and His power to reach people, and not the favour of men.
I pray that all on this list will know His glorious riches and the depths of the love of Christ for them in Jesus name amen.
Sarah
Michael
In your post you said:
I am delighted to say that after the years of walking with Him., scripture that i thought I new well, can still surprise and excite me, with an insight i had not seen prior. His Word has remained forever fresh. I pray more folk would learn to be content with, and trust, what it is to us the Bread of Life
Michael B
Comment:
The greatest gift that God has given to us is Himself. He has chosen us to be His temple, and He lives in us.
The second greatest gift that God has given us is His written word, the Bible. It is a creation. It is not God. It is not to be worshiped. It gives us a perfect standard with which to compare everything, and it acts as a guide to lead us to Christ (Gal 3:24).
The Bible doesn’t teach us. The Spirit of God teaches us, as the word says in John 14:26:
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
When you read the Bible and find fresh insight, it is not the Bible that teaches you, but the Spirit of God.
Instead of being contented with the Bible, we must pray as Eph 1:17 directs:
17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
We need to pray to God that He would give us this Spirit of wisdom and revelation so that we may know Him Better.
PS The Bible is not the Word of Life, Jesus Himself is. He alone, satisfies.
motherofnations
You said in your post:
I have had personal revival in this state as laid out above. I believe that true revival comes from nothing other than this. Those that worship must worship in spirit (heart to heart prayer) and in truth (the word of God).
When i speak of personal revival, I’m talking about operating under the unction of the sword of the Spirit of God with signs and wonders and the hearts of men coming to true repentance as they entered my presence.
Comments:
1- When you speak of the word of God, are you talking about the Bible (the written word), or about Jesus (the living Word).
While the Bible is true, Jesus said that He was the Way, The Truth, and the Life. When we worship in the Spirit and Truth, we are controlled by the Spirit, and we are in Christ.
A pagan might be able to worship in the written word, but only a believer can worship in the Living Word.
2- You say, “I’m talking about operating under the unction of the sword of the Spirit of God with signs and wonders….”
The Bible says in 2 Cor 12:12:
12 The things that mark an apostle–signs, wonders and miracles–were done among you with great perseverance.
Question:
Are you claiming to be an Apostle, since you claim to be operating with signs and wonders?
I believe that the Lord is teaching us to stand free in our individual relationships with Him, i.e. to stand for Him even when we are all alone.
We cannot “try” to change others. Only the Holy Spirit can change another soul. Any attempt on our behalf to change others is actually witchcraft, it is soulish and not of the Lord – just like soulish prayer. Even human compassion is not of the Lord.
Any pressure which we exert over any other soul (including our own) to do anything in any other spirit than the Holy Spirit is detrimental both to ourselves and to that other person and unfortunately opens the door for any number of evil spirits to add their “voices” and “input” into whatever it is we are trying to exert pressure over that other person to do or be or achieve or whatever.
I really feel that I need to share this. I’ve found in coming to that place of understanding that there has been an outlet in prayer to God for the longings which He places on my heart for His own or for the world and yet I know that only He is able to perform or bring to reality any of these longings in accordance with His will.
I find coming out of me at times a real desire in prayer to see people changed, to see myself changed and to see both myself and everyone else glorifying the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
This desire is in accordance with scripture, “Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Your Name, Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven”, but doesn’t mean that I’m going to go out there and “try” and make it happen.
The Lord will save, as Jonathan said to his armour bearer, “whether by many or by few”. At the end of the day the Lord knows whom He is going to save and that is really none of my business.
I, along with God, “desire all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth” and I desire this to bring the maximum amount of glory possible to Jesus.
I am fully aware that just because God desires all men to be saved and has shed His Blood as a propitiation for the sins of the world – “and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world” – as 1 John 2:2 tells us, that not all will come to Him to seek His mercy in repentance and faith, “yet as many as received Him to them He gave the right to become children of God” (John 1:12).
Salvation is of the Lord. We are not responsible to save anyone. We can not even make one hair white or black how much less could we save anyone.
Any action which is lead by the Holy Spirit as described by “sheepkinz” in the now closed thread “Wells without Water – Darren Smith” in the story of Philip being led by the Holy Spirit – in fact even literally transported by the Holy Spirit – to be where the thirsty soul was (sitting in his chariot) which the Lord was bringing to salvation, is blessed by the Lord and is a blessing both to the Lord and to us and to the individual receiving the blessing of God in the revelation of Himself to that individual.
Everyone is blessed, even the angels in heaven rejoice over one lost sinner who gets saved (and I’m sure “the great cloud of witnesses” rejoice also).
This is the way I want to be, to be quietly minding my own business and when the Lord wants to use me to do something for Him to just be able to pick me up (not necessarily literally like with Philip) and use me to achieve that activity and then set me back down again to live my everyday life, doing the things which He’s shown me already that I should be achieving in my everyday life.
“…Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have…” (1 Pet 3:15b NIV)
If anyone asks us to give a reason for the hope we have, we can take it as the Lord’s leading to share forth whatever the Lord puts on our hearts to share.
This is not being controlling or forceful or any other thing but the later part of that verse does say, “…but do it courteously and respectfully (1 Pet 3:15c AMP) and the first part of the verse says, “But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord…” (1 Pet 3:15a).
From that place where Christ has been set apart in our hearts as Lord and from a place of “waiting submission” He can speak to us through His Holy Spirit and lead us into situations where what He has established in us of Himself can “spill out” to others for their blessing and refreshment in the Lord.
I believe that all of us go through a wilderness experience of leaving behind the “false staffs” which we’ve leant on in the past – like Egypt is referred to in scripture as a “broken reed”…
“Lo, thou trustest in the staff of this broken reed, on Egypt; whereon if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all that trust in him” (Isaiah 36:6 KJV).
These “false staffs” are anything which is not the truth which Jesus prayed to the Father for us to be sanctified with in John 17:17, they could be an extra-biblical doctrine, a ministry, a man, a woman, a denomination, a stream, a doctrinal persuation, a movement, anything which is not the truth of God as revealed in scripture and through the person of the Lord Jesus Christ who was God in human flesh, who died to give His life as an atonement for sin and who rose again on the third day to display to the world that He had defeated the power of sin and uttered in eternal life for all who would put their trust in Him.
As we come to a place where we fully and totally trust in Jesus alone then God will bring us back together with others who have also been through this refining experience and in genuine humility we will begin to do the exploits that the early disciples experienced in the days directly after Pentecost. This I believe is genuine revival and this is what I long to see occur in my lifetime.
“But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus” (Phil 3:7-14 NIV).
Why am I reminded of Job’s comforters by many of the contributions to this forum?
Please! Do we not all love the Lord and want to know His way and His will more? Can we reason together, in love?
Not all dreams are from God. We must learn to recognise the difference. Of course we should pray if we lack understanding, or if we are in doubt. However, God does not always give immediate or specific answers to our questions.You know that. Do you have all the answers? I once – actually many, many times – asked God why He would not speak to me in plain words, like He did with Moses, instead of leaving me struggling to get understanding. He replied “yes, I can speak to you in plain language, as I am doing now.” ( It was not an audible voice on that occasion, but in silent thought, except that the ‘thoughts’ did not originate with me). “The reason I do not, is for the sake of your humility”.He went on to answer other matters as well but those are not relevant here. I wondered if there was a rebuke in this but there did not seem to be so. He wants us to have empathy with others, and to pray, so that we will not answer harshly or use a ‘club’ to make our point.He wants us to gain His heart.
We cannot, of course, allow emotions to cloud our judgement, or interpretation of the ‘word’ given us, but I don’t think anyone was suggesting we should. We should not invent ‘straw men’ either, simply to justify our having a sayand shooting them down.
Andrew J, I did not read into your comments what Harvestisripe was suggesting. Yes, I am happy for the moderator of the forum to give you my email address.
Pr Michael. I believe you are using scripture wrongly to justify your position and that of those in leadership within the ‘Church system’. I do not think anyone is trying to ‘attack ‘ those within the church. They are my friends -many of them – and I care for them deeply. I do not know why God called me out of the ‘church’ and not them, at this time. I tell everyone who challenges me over my decision, to pray, to ask God. If they care for me, would they not have done so? I have heard no more on the subject.I wonder if they have merely written me off as misguided, even though they have accepted my guidance on other matters.I am troubled by the fact that those in leadership would say they are called to their positions and yet God in leading me in a contradictory way. Could it be a matter of timing and God’s strategy? Blessings still occur within the system.God’s arm is not shortened that He cannot save.
TheresaN: God once likened the church to an amusement park in a vision He gave me. It was, I think, the first vision in which He indicated to me that I would eventually leave the church system. It was to be some time after that when I would find the bridge into the ‘promised land’ as I call it. The amusement park was divided from green pastures in which there was hardly a soul, by a narrow river. All the people were crowded into the amusement park. I wondered why no-one was on the other side.As I walked away form the park and the pavillion which went with it, I eventually came across a small white bridge. What a promise I take that to be! Others will hear about it when I find it but I am not there yet.!
One more thing. Since we are talking about dreams,the following will explain further my understanding concerning the re-building of God’s house:- I was in an inner city suburb. The streets looked alike. The houses looked alike. Old, run-down. A builder (who was God) had decided to remove this house and re-build it elsewhere, re-using the materials from the old house where they were suitable. There was a special word which He used to describe this process but I cannot recall what it was. He took me into the house. He indicated the floor – all dirty, scuffed and bruised “That will be re-used” He said. I was somewhat surprised.
“It will be put through the re-thicknesser “. He took a section of floor and showed me. The machine took a thin shaving off both sides. The result was beautiful! Clean, smooth, with a lovely grain showing. Then He took me to the front room (lounge , parlour, what -you-will).He showed me the end of the mantle-peice. It was scroll shaped , covered in paint. “That will be used. That is gold”. He then showed me the corner of the architrave above the door, also scroll-shaped.”That is gold also” He said.”It will be re-used.” I waited for him to show me the rest. After all , we were in the front room where the best was displayed . Surely more would be re-used.I asked Him, “What else?”
There was silence and then He said, “That will be dumped”.
It brought to mind the scripture, “Salt which has lost its flavour is fit only for the dung-heap”.
The House He is re-buliding is God’s House. The materials He is using is people.The floor speaks a lot and represents the general ‘laity’ on whom some refining work will be done. Not much up-front stuff was to be re-used. The gold speaks of truth, purity, refinement.The new leadership, I believe.The scroll-shape indicates that they are ‘shaped by scripture/the word of God’.
The house will not be found where it is at present.It will be throughout the land, and much of it will be underground .( That from further dreams.)
We need to hear from God.Otherwise we follow like sheep. It is the traditions of men which keep us from knowing Him.
Those who say we should be out door-knocking, evangelising or whatever, should be doing so themselves, if that is what they are truly hearing. As for me , I continue to wait upon the Lod.
Gary said:
Question:
Are you claiming to be an Apostle, since you claim to be operating with signs and wonders?
Sarah says;
I don’t claim to be anyone. All I have done was retell you what has happened in my life. :) And the reason I told was for encouragement. That’s it. No claiming.
with love,
Sarah
motherofnations
You have a unique way of sidestepping answering a question. A simple yes, or no would suffice.
Gary, no sidestepping here.
I answered your question, and then some more so that you didn’t have to ask anymore questions. :)
with love,
Sarah
Harvey said:
Why am I reminded of Job’s comforters by many of the contributions to this forum?
Please! Do we not all love the Lord and want to know His way and His will more? Can we reason together, in love? end quote.
I liked several things you shared Harvey in your above post and didnt want it to slip by.
I was pondering on this because I dont know if there can be unity until people shall become of one accord as the disciples in the upper room. when all are like minded in the things of Christ and come into a true unity of His word, His truth and His word. How can we be like minded in the things of the Lord when scripture is mixed, or leavened or as you also stated, still holding on to the, traditions of men. What people have grown up believing or have been taught and schooled by man and still hold onto them when it is contrary to the word of God.
I also agree if people are going to point the finger and say we should be doing this and doing that. I pray they are doing the same thing they are telling everyone else what they should be doing, or not doing themselves. I have a Teacher, the Holy Spirit who leads and guides into all truth. The Holy Spirit leads me in the way I should go. I dont believe others should be saying do this, go here, on and on. Because that may not be where the Holy Spirit is calling someone to go just because someone said it doesnt mean it is from the Lord. That again is just mans opinion and may not be sincerely the Lord’s. If the Lord says he directs my steps , than I simply must believe that and walk where He leads.
Last few days I have saw in a vision, a man in a boat.
He is throwing a line out into the water, trying to catch fish, with a little piece of meat on it. As I continued to watch, I than see piranha’s with sharp teeth school in and thrash and jumping, devouring anything that gets in their way, fighting desperately over that one piece of meat that was thrown overboard.
definition of piranha-that have very sharp teeth, often appear in schools, and include some that may attack and inflict dangerous wounds upon humans and large animals.
I was reminded of this because as you talked of unity. I didnt see any in this vision either… Piranhas seek to devour and they hurt and can wound and even kill while seeking to devour.
As you continued to share on the the Lord building His house, we are His house, his tabernacle, earthen vessels.
Colossians 2:
2that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument. 5For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.
6Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
When you shared about the gold in the Lords house, for some reason I thought about the gold spoken of in Zech. His people being purified, refined, and tested.
Zechariah
9“And I will bring the third part through the fire,
Refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are My people,’
And they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
You also reminded of a house the Lord showed me in a dream. I saw all the beds being covered with red bedspreads and long rug runners were being rolled out and they were also red in color, same as the bedspreads. I walked into a library and heard two men talking. You have all the tools you need. If the Holy Spirit indwells in the Lords true body, We then have all the wisdom, truth, knowledge from the Holy one within us and we need not many teachers, for we have ONE.
1 John
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
As I continued to walk to a much larger room. I saw
people working on a bridge in the house. As i walked up the stairs I saw that the bridge needed repaired and that is what they were working on.
It was not complete. I saw to the other side and their was no way to get across. they were working on repairing the bridge to make it one. this is the repairers of the breach in the Lords house.
Psalms 106:
23Therefore He said that He would destroy them,
Had not Moses His chosen one stood in the breach before Him, To turn away His wrath from destroying them.
For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
1 Corinthians 3:9
Sarah, Isaiah has a lot to say about the wilderness you may find helpful:
(Just as an aside, love is not something we portion out to those we favour or have attachments to, love is something we are to become. God IS love.)
Is. 35:8 “And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness.” Where is “there”? Go back a couple of verses and it says, “Water will gush forth in the wildernes and streams in the desert.” The highway of holiness is found in the desert wilderness.
Is. 40:3-5 “A voice of one calling: ‘IN THE DESERT prepare the way for the Lord; make straight IN THE WILDERNESS a highway for our God….”
Is. 43:18-19 “Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it?” Why a new thing? It’s the end of the church age, the times of the gentiles are coming to an end – time to change gears and prepare for the next thing on God’s calendar.
Is.48:20-21 “Leave Babylon, flee from the Babylonians! Announce this with shouts of joy and proclaim it. Send it out to the ends of the earth; say, ‘The Lord has redeemed his servant Jacob.’ They did not thirst when he led them through the deserts; he made water flow for them from the rock; he split the rock and water gushed out.” Notice the Lord encourages them with assurances of provision. But why the word flee? Babylon was about to judged for taking the Israelites captive.
Is. 52:7 “How beautiful ON THE MOUNTAINS are the feet of those who bring good news, who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, ‘Your God reigns!’ ”
Is. 52:11-12 “Depart, depart, go out from there! Touch no unclean thing! Come out from it and be pure, you who carry the vessels of the Lord. But you will not go in haste or go in flight; for the Lord will go before you, the God of Israel will be your rear guard.”
Watchful wrote:
“But why the word flee? Babylon was about to judged for taking the Israelites captive.”
Yes.
Watchful,
You keep saying it’s “the end of the church age”. Please give me scripture to support your claims. The church- the ekklesia- is still here! The church age has not ended. We are still in a time of grace, people are still getting saved, the Body of Christ is still on planet earth. Jesus is still standing at the door and knocking, he is still saying, “Be earnest and repent!” He hasn’t left the scene or walked away from His people- “If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.” (Revelation 3:19-20)
You are still here, I am still here, the church is still here- the church age has not ended.
If you’re going to continue to make the claim that the church age has ended, please show us from the Word of God why you believe this to be true.
Mike
Hi Mike, if memory serves it was 2 Thess. 2 the Lord used to first open my eyes to the lateness of the hour – the widespread apostasy and strong delusion in the temple of God (the church) that we are witnessing. Also the exodus from the churches is another clue and judgment beginning with the house of God, so judgment of the world must soon follow. Nobody knows the day or hour the times of the gentiles will come to an end, but we can and need to be awake to the season we are in.
Mat 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.”
Thanks Watchful. I agree with you about the lateness of the hour, and the widespread apostasy that is happening, but that is different than the “church age” being over. When you say the church age is over, what do you mean by that?
Thanks!
Mike
Mike,
I sometimes call the “times of the gentiles” the church age, and I don’t mean literally that it is over this minute but that it is winding down and very nearly over – there is pretty much nothing left of the church but the ‘remnant’ now. You may not agree, but I believe we are in the time of separation of the wheat and the tares. I believe judgment has already started in the ‘Babylonian’ false church with this unprecedented number of ministers and pastors being exposed in their sin recently, and of course the judgment of deception, “strong delusion” spoken of in 2 Thess. 2. I’m no expert on the end times, God knows, I have more questions than answers and can’t speak to details, only what the Lord has shown me thus far.
The bible speaks of the “times of the gentiles” being fulfilled, coming to an end, (Luke 21:24) and then it will be Israel’s turn to receive the gospel back again – that’s a whole other subject – but I believe that because of apostasy, Jesus is spewing out of his body the apostate church – He is fulfilling what the bible says he would do – that is to break off unnatural branches in order to graft back in the natural branches according to Rom 11:21 ” For if God did not spare the natural branches, he WILL NOT spare you either.” That wasn’t a maybe, that was a promise. Good news for the Jews, but not for those who have not been taking their walk with the Lord seriously. Anyway, hope that clarifies what I’m talking about.
Mike, I think the word ‘church’ is the problem. What do we mean when we use the word? I heard oncer that it was a scottish word originally and had a different meaning to that commonly understood today Don’t forget that it is not the word Jesus used – it is only a comparatively modern translation for a word which actually means, as you say, the ekklesia the called out ones. Today if you look in the dictionary it has many meanings and conveys all kinds of understanding. I have come to dislike the use of the word very much, because I love the truth and hate the misunderstandings that the word brings. The ‘church’ age is what many call this present dispensation . As you say we are not going to go away, until we are taken. The Kingdom of God is in the hearts of those who love and obey God. That should be how we think. However, there is a traditionalism , a reverence for the ‘church’ – the system , the buildings and everything about it. It is deception.
I was brought up in the Anglican Church. I was confirmed at the age of 9 -. simply because I was in the choir and the minister wanted the choir to lead the congregation into communion and I could not take communion until I was confirmed in the faith. That required me to learn a list of questions and answers , called the Catechism. Was I changed in heart? No, except for perhaps a touch of pride. I recall that there use to be a red light on at the front of the Church. The minister said that signified the presence of the Holy Spirit.I could never see Him. Every time I crossed the centre of the church, at the front or at the back, I had to stop and bow to the altar. I am not getting at that denomination.They all have religious, meaningless traditions. They eventually disappoint.I am so glad that I know the living God and no longer can pretend.
Hi Watchful,
Being that there is no “personal message” section here on the forum, would you mind contacting me via my webpage? I wanted to ask you something.Just click the “contact me” section on my site.Thanks!
God Bless,
Heidi
Harvey. Thank you for your refreshing contribution.
You mentioned “church” being the incorrect translation of ekklesia. [ According to Strong it's "church" 115x, assembly 3.] I understand “church” actually means “house of the Lord”. Thus to its people “church” is the impressive buildings and the powerful, hierarchical organisations that began with Catholicism. Significantly, you say: “It is not the word Jesus used”. Amen!
And it’s only one example of the practice of replacing New Covenant words with a word that misleads and confuses. What about “pastor”, “baptism”, “bishop”overseer, “deacon”? And other alterations. On your point of our thinking, all these have much to do with the restoration of the things concerning the Ekklesia.
You also mentioned the “Kingdom of God” as being in the hearts of those who love and obey God”. Further, I submit, the Ekklesia are also in the Kingdom of God. More to the point, they are certainly not in Christianity!!
“Christianity” is compromise and has the effect of seriously hindering the teaching of the Kingdom of God. When it is referred to it’s usually about “building” it or “extending” it but not so much about seeking or entering it.
For many years I have been among pentecostals usually in some form of recognised leadership but after looking at the difference with what I realised was the New Covenant pattern I decided to leave.
But leaving was just one side of the coin. “Going somewhere” came next – beginning with Jesus and the word “ekklesia” and realisations of the New Covenant pattern – desiring the whole counsel of God in all things. Hallelujah.
Sorry watchful, here is my correct website addy (I put my old website address in the box originally by accident ;)
http://www.thekeeperofthevineyard.wordpress.com
Watchful,
Thank you for explaining what you meant when you talk about the Church Age being over. There are many who actually think it is LITERALLY over- and it sounded like that’s what you were saying… thanks for clearing that up!
I don’t believe as you do that we are in the time of separation of the wheat and the tares. Jesus explained the parable and said this would happen at the “end of the age” and further went on to explain that the harvesters are angels. Jesus said he’d send out his angels and they’d weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil, then the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:36-43) This is NOT what is happening now, so I can’t agree with you about this.
You mentioned that you believe, “because of apostasy, Jesus is spewing out of his body the apostate church”.
If you read Revelation 3:14-22 the desire of God’s heart is expressed as RESTORATION.
People always focus on the “spitting out of His mouth” part, but in context God is wanting to restore, not judge.
“Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.” (Revelation 3:19)
Mike
Harvey,
Thank you for your words! I agree, the term “church” is part of the problem and it’s why I often use the word ekklesia… pretty much for the same reasons you suggested. I had an advantage in that when I came to the Lord it was completely outside of the context of “church” and I have always seen the church as the ekklesia- the called out ones, and not the system you are talking about.
I also agree with you about the “church age”– that we will be here until we are “caught up” and that’s why I reject the notion that the church age is over.
You mentioned being brought up in the Anglican Church and having gone through the motions and yet having no “life”. I’m glad that your eyes were opened to see! Praise God!
I would think by what you said that we’re in agreement- that Jesus is building His church, and that we’re living stones in that building of His making- the ekklesia. That is the truth that needs to be brought out.
One thought I have though is that people often talk about removing themselves from “the system”- as if leaving a mega church (or something they feel smacks of the system) will set them free- but they fail to see that in most cases they’ve simply exchanged one system for another! The person who sits home all alone and is out-of-church has also fashioned their own system… they assume it’s from God just as much as the man who sits in a mega church. True freedom is found in Christ, not in simply changing structures.
Mike
Awesome. The Lord promises to protect his own through the trials that are to come. This dream is totally in line with what the word teaches.The ferry is in the storm in this dream but is not destroyed by it. Rev3:10
Mike, I agree with you that the Lord desires restoration, and I consider the possibility that the “fiery furnace” refers to how those who are now “tares” will experience the tribulation – the image of a furnace is used in scripture to depict a gruelling refining process rather than destruction.
Psa 12:6 And the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times.
Dan 11:35 Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.
Dan 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.
The church of Laodicea is being counseled to buy gold refined in the fire, so the potential exists that some of them will be saved during the tribulation:
Rev 3:18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
I’ve heard this boat metaphor before on several occasions. The bible tells us to test everything and I believe we must take great caution when attributing dreams to God. So the question is – and I think the author will be able to answer this – has your daughter ever heard of this metaphor before? If she has not, it might really be a dream of God.
Nevertheless, the image clearly clearly describes the state some churches are in today.
Good morning Watchful!
It doesn’t look like we’re seeing eye to eye on this! :)
I totally understand what you’re saying about the purifying process… but I don’t think that’s what the scripture is talking about in the passage of the wheat and tares. Being thrown into this “fiery furnace” sounds a lot more like hell to me, especially because the passage is also talking about “weeping and gnashing of teeth”- other places where “weeping and gnashing of teeth” are mentioned talk about being cast into “outer darkness”.
I’m not sure why you’re connecting the church of Laodicea being counseled to buy “gold refined in the fire” with the tribulation? That truth can be applied to any of us without going through the tribulation period:
“In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.” (1 Peter 1:6-9)
Bless you Mike, guess we’ll just have to leave it there for now, or we could haggle forever. There is no question there is a separation going on right now – seems unprecedented as far as I can tell..and we could be perched on the edge of another world war which could involve everyone lobbing nukes at each other….yet maybe the Lord will tarry still a little longer. I pray so.
Bear with me as I “veer west” with a few thoughts from Joshua 5:13-15 (NIV):
“Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?”
“Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.” Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, “What message does my Lord have for his servant?” The commander of the LORD’s army replied, “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so”.
Now the children of Israel had wandered around in the dessert for quite a number of years at this stage and those who hadn’t believed the word of the Lord, who were not of the faith of Joshua and Caleb, had died in the desert, but their children were now to inherit the promised land.
What was the key to why those who were not of the faith of Joshua and Caleb were “sentenced” to die in the dessert? Well, the Lord had specifically told the children of Israel through Joshua and Caleb that the Lord would go with them and enable them to “take the land”.
The children of Israel were scared of the giants and the fortified cities and simply did not believe the Lord, even after all they had been through, that He would be able to “put their enemies to flight before them”.
The Lord, as it were, “swore in His wrath that they would not enter His rest”. Possessing the promised land involved believing that the Lord would what He said He would do. Those who didn’t have the faith to believe this died in the dessert.
Those who did believe the Lord through Caleb and Joshua entered the promised land.
It is interesting to me that when Moses told the children of Israel that they would “die in the desert” that a group rose up and went against what the Lord had said, not to go up against the people of the land at that time because the Lord was not going to be with them, and tried to achieve what the Lord had previously said He would do in their own strength. Their efforts failed miserably.
And so we now find Joshua, after Moses the servant of the Lord was dead, having crossed the Jordan and standing – after having all the men of the children of Israel circumcised to represent their devotion to the Lord – in the promised land, met with this visitation from the Commander of the Army of the Lord whom I believe to be Jesus Himself.
The reason I believe this is that Joshua called Him, “my Lord” and was commanded as was Moses in the visitation of the burning bush to “take of his sandals” for he was standing on “holy ground” and also because when angels appeared to the Lord’s people in scripture and the people would go to bow down and worship the angel would always tell them not to but to “worship God”.
The Commander of the Army of the Lord had a drawn sword in His Hand.
Joshua asked Him who’s side He was on, Joshua who had tarried in the Lord’s presence after Moses departed the Tent of Meeting, didn’t recognise his Lord when He stood before him with drawn sword, the Commander of the Army of the Lord said,
“Neither,”… “but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.”
Next Joshua wanted to know what message his Lord had for His servant. I sense in my mind that although Joshua was in a place of submission he was still looking for action, “what must I do?”, but the Lord’s response,
“Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.”
knocked all that “action” out of him “and he did”.
Now he was in a place of complete submission, he was in a place where time stood still, he was in a place of worship and I’m sure he would have cried many tears as his heart was exposed before “the Lord of Glory”…
This is the place which the Lord is bringing us to in our experience of Him, He is not a tool in our hand to achieve whatever we think He has promised to do, He is come to get the glory for Himself, He comes in His own Name and we are to bow at His feet… This is genuine revival.
Before the Lord can use us for His glory to accomplish “the taking of the land” and “the fall of Jericho” He must bring us to this submitted position where we are nothing before Him.
The Lord promised the children of Israel that they would inherit the promised land, the Lord promised his friend Abraham that he would give this land to “he and his descendants forever” we too as the Church of the Living God at this point in history have a prophetic destiny and a call from God which He wants us to fulfil.
He is not coming to us to fulfil our whims, or our wishes, or to push our favorite doctrine or establish what we treasure highly in our hearts in terms of the ways that He’s worked in the past, or any other thing which we may – even sincerely – have interpreted as being the way He is, He is coming as the “Commander of the Army of the Lord”, He has the “battle plan” and as He unfolded this “battle plan” to Joshua in Joshua 6, He will unfold His “battle plan” to us for this day and hour as we wait in reverent submission to Him.
Yes Watchful, His blessings to you also! One thing we certainly agree on is that we’re living in unprecedented times and that we need to stay close to the Lord.
His grace and peace!
Mike
A big huge amen Andrew J – thanks brother, that feeds my soul today!
Amen, Mike, His grace and peace to you as well!
Gary,
You should read Psalm 119. We are to be discerners of truth. There are a lot of people who come in the name of Jesus, saying they are of Him. They may even do “signs and wonders” and speak great swelling words, and even “feel” like the real thing…Jesus. But if we do not know the Word of God…ie the Bible, we do not understand the nature of God and the things we are seeing. And I don’t mean a word which is second hand, but rather a fond familiarity with the Bible. God gave us the written Word so we will not be deceived by every wind of doctrine. He reveals His plans. To dismiss the written Word is utter foolishness.
I enjoyed the dream…not so much some of the comments. :-( It is a simple dream, people, and it is evidenced in the world in which we live. It is hard to come to grips that the church is having a good ole time building little kingdoms on earth when Jesus is warning of danger and telling us to pick up our cross and follow HIM! I’m not saying that God has left ALL the churches, I’m just saying that when we exchange a walk with Him for a walk with a body which may or may not be accurately presenting the Truth, then we are in danger of deception. Deception is sneaky because when you become deceived, you don’t know it! Only by reading the Word..or as one man said…only by letting the Word read you, and the grace of God can a person begin to break the deception. We have been fed so much stuff in the churches for the past 20 years by a group of men who confirm to one another it is okay, it is a ripping effect to walk away. “Don’t leave the covering of the church or the wolves will get you.” “Don’t touch God’s annointed.” “Rebellion is the sin of wichcraft.” So many controlling methods used to keep people in line. It is hard to walk away even when you observe error. Little dreams like this help sooth a person’s soul and encourages through a hard process. If it is a choice between a party boat with people prophesying, dancing and singing, signs and wonders, great swelling words, prosperity messages, and other such things that will not withstand troubled times, I choose the rickty old ferry with my Savior at the helm.
Watchful wrote:
“Mike, I agree with you that the Lord desires restoration, and I consider the possibility that the “fiery furnace” refers to how those who are now “tares” will experience the tribulation – the image of a furnace is used in scripture to depict a gruelling refining process rather than destruction.”
Watchful, you probably know this,but there is “fire” for the complete and utter destruction of the tares. They will burned up.
But for the “multitude” remnant, who go through the tribulation,there is a “fire” of purification, as in accordance to those scriptures you posted (so I won’t post them again here)
Thanks Heidi, that thought had just occurred to me and I was thinking out loud – nasty headache today, so don’t feel very able to get into things too deeply right now. The only things I can really stand on are the things the Lord has shown me, the rest I can only still wonder about. I just noticed you wanted me to contact you a little while ago – somehow I missed seeing your posts yesterday – I sent you my e-mail via your contact page, feel free to drop me a line! Bless you..
Diana
You said in your post:
To dismiss the written Word is utter foolishness.
Comment:
I agree with you 100%. It would be utter foolishness!
If you think that I would dismiss the written Word, you are completely wrong.
1- As long as there is false teaching, the Bible will remain the standard of Truth.
2- As long as there are lost people who need to be saved, it is necessary to lead them to Jesus Christ.
What I am saying is that once you become a child of God, and have become born again and filled by the Spirit of God, you have living inside you something superior to the written word of God; you have the living word of God (Jesus).
There are many ways that Jesus living in me is superior to me just having a Bible. Let me count the ways?
Remember in the dream that from time to time the 2 ships came side by side. At that time our little sister called to her friends to come to the other ship. Yes, we do not hold back mercy and grace from anyone. Just because one might acknowledge the condition of the church (as related to the dream) does not mean that that they are not having mercy. It’s a matter of awareness. The goal here, to share on brother Andrew’s site, is to help our brothers and sisters to have an awarenss of our (the church’s) spiritual condition and give us insight to assist us in following the Lord. As we become aware we can go to the Lord in prayer and equip ourselves for what battle might lie ahead. In the fire department it would be called “pre-fire planning”. Yes, you are right, all who have posted here should have mercy and grace extended to those on the other ship. Yes, we should not be pridefull. But the point remains that the bible talks about a great falling away in the end. Yes, we still have to reach out to the church as we also reach out to the lost. It’s all about all of us getting closer to Christ and having a stronger relationship with him and with one another. Regardless of the condition of the church, it is my reponsibility to live for Jesus, be aware of what is going on around me (spiritualy), study His word, pray, and not to cast the first stone.
Mike,
I agree with your posting in response to my earlier one. I agree particularly with your last paragraph. When I left the ‘ institutionalised church’ or what I may term the ‘system’, I was both excited and cautious. Excited, because I was obeying God and expecting great things to happen.Cautious, because I was no longer a part of what I was brought up with and had respected. I never worried about losing the ‘covering’ as people are warned aginst, as I knew I was under God’s covering. I had, however, warned many people in the past about straying – going alone and how easily we might be ‘picked off by the enemy.’ I realised that I must stay close to God. I went through a period of ‘detoxification’ – a purification from all the ‘poison’ which I had imbibed whilst within the church system.When we join a church we copy the others and do what they do, so that we will fit in. Their ways, traditions and understandings, even their dress and appearance to some extent.We identify ourselves as Baptists, Pentecostals or whatever and say,” I belong to such-and such-a church”. I realised that I do not! I belong to Christ! I recognised that the divisions which Paul had spoken against were accepted by the church. We really are like sheep. We watch others and do likewise.I watch Christ and do likewise- at least to a greater measure than before.
Everything we do is habit forming and can turn into tradition, like breakfast. We need to critically examine everything we do and understand to ensure that it is justifiable. I gradually dropped the Christianese I had learned because no- one outside the church understands and it is simply laziness in our thinking and expression. Just about everything we do in church is repetition.I had long before become uncomfortable about a lot of what we did and began to question why we did it. That was not profitable. The Lord has taught me many things since and I am able to follow without conflict now or the fear of offending others.
I do not point the finger at those still within the ‘church system’. Actually many of those within disagree with much of what happens but are disposed to compromise. They do not want to rock the boat.I found that I could no longer compromise, because by my behaviour I could be leading others astray by lending silent assent. It is the ‘system’ which I dislike so intensley, because it corrupts. There is a powerful controlling spirit behind it,which I recognise as the spirit of Jezebel. It is more strongly in evidence in some churches. Others merely follow a form, as yet!
Obviously I am not just writing this for you Mike, but for any readers who may find it helpful.
I find myself in conflict with the scriptue which says, “Do not neglect to meet together (or assemble) with others as some do, and even more as the Day draws nearer” God does not contradict Himself. I am in obedience to Him. The thoughts have occurred that 1) I am in the middle of a process and need to wait until I see the outcome
2) I am allowing myself to be’ assembled ‘ with others, outside.
3) I am totally deceived. As to this last , I am learning to trust the anointing which I have received (1 Jhn 2:27)
I will feel more comfortable when, without compromise ,I find myself in a company where 1 Cor. 14:27 is obeyed whenever we meet together.
Finally , I might mention that I am called to be a watchman and God has gifted me accordingly. A friend once asked “How come you always have to be the wet-blanket? We are having fun and you come along and spoil it by pointing out danger or pour cold water on it.” Sadly this is sometimes the case. Do I enjoy being a party -pooper? Of course not, But if I see danger coming, will I warn my friends or anyone else? Of course I will. I can’t be otherwise because I love them. I love the Lord and accept His plan for my life. How could I do otherwise? He alone has the words of eternal life.
thanks Happy Trails …I like your comment
“By the way, YOUR FOOTPRINTS SHOULD BE IN HIS FOOTPRINTS….
I feel the tug on my spirit to get ready but am worried that I don’t know how…I really feel in my spirit trying times are coming here to America. Pray without ceasing that God will direct your path and keep you in all your ways..God Bless
Harvey,
That was a wonderful post! I appreciate how transparent you were in it. I found myself identifying with so much that you said. Even though we have different backgrounds in that you grew up with many of the religious trappings and I came to know Christ outside of that system, we share many of the same experiences because we’re all touched by what we eventually become part of, and as you said so well- we take on many of the characteristics of those around us in the church.
I resist doing it because I’ve posted other links to my website on this forum, (and I don’t want others to take that wrongly even though I have the right intent)- but I really want to post this for you because so much of what you said in your last post echoes exactly the conclusions I also came to. I think you’d find it a blessing!
http://www.songsofjesus.com/shaped_molded.htm
You know I was also very blessed by your honesty when you said, “I find myself in conflict with the scripture which says, “Do not neglect to meet together (or assemble) with others as some do, and even more as the Day draws nearer.”
About 1990 I first began to strongly feel that God was going to be working in the church to bring about changes. As I walked into the things that I felt God was showing me, and was no longer gathering with the church in the way I had previously, I never felt comfortable that that was God’s best for me. Honestly, I agonized over not gathering and being in fellowship. My wife was a constant witness to the inner struggle. I could not get away from the Holy Spirit’s call to fellowship- I knew I was making a transition away from old structures so I didn’t know what to do… I didn’t want to compromise by going back to what I’d left, and I didn’t want to fail to be gathering with the church as I knew that God was telling me He wanted that for me. What to do? It was very tough; agonizing- it ripped my heart out. Eventually we formed a home group and that lasted a couple years, but is no longer together. But here’s what’s interesting- during that time I found what I would call a true freedom in Christ. I recently wrote about that on my website because it was truly a breakthrough for me. I haven’t at all compromised my beliefs about the changes that need to take place in the church, (my heart is still for homes groups for instance) but I have joy in the Lord and freedom in Him. I am no longer in the place where I feel like I have to be out of a “regular church” to be free. I am happy to be where God has me, and where God’s people are. One thing I will personally not do anymore is be out of fellowship. I will gather with God’s people if at all possible; that’s a conviction I have because I never felt that God’s best for me was to be alone, and I still don’t feel it’s His best.
One part of that freedom for me came as I saw the reactionary attitude that so many seem to have who have “left the church”. I don’t blame anyone for that, I had it myself to some degree, but I feel God wanted to move me past that. As long as I was in that place I wasn’t truly free. So many swing so far to the other side in rejecting what they see as wrong in the church that they really end up putting themselves under a whole new form of bondage by throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I saw too much of this acting out of “reacting” and didn’t want to be like that, more importantly, I don’t think Christ wanted me to be like that. Anyway, this is getting long, but what I am trying to say is that I think it’s altogether good that you wrestle and feel conflicted about not gathering- Christians should want to gather together- we love God and His people; we’re family, and what healthy family doesn’t want to get together? Also, especially I appreciate that you’re that open and honest about the whole thing with yourself and others.
I think the 3 points you mentioned of reasoning before the Lord are very good ones. I have to say, I was also very blessed to hear you say that you’ve actually asked yourself if you’re being deceived. I think your willingness to ask that is the best place in the world to be! Not because I think you are being deceived, but because I think it’s vitally important that we ask ourselves those kind of questions.
My wife would tell you I was ruthless in asking myself that question. God will spare us a great deal of grief if we’ll only just ask and be willing to hear His answer. The fact that you’re asking tells me that the Holy Spirit’s at work to guard you and protect you. I could go on about this point for a long time because I think there are plenty of good reasons why we should be asking the Lord if we’re being deceived about the changes that are going on in the church and the steps we’re taking to leave the system. It has been my observation (and I have very carefully been watching) that there are people advocating the same thing as we’re doing that I personally feel are very deceived…. all these changes in the church are occurring at the same time, and many are saying almost the same things, but with subtle differences that disturb me. That is enough reason to give me pause. I would not be at all surprised if the enemy is at work here too; he’s a great counterfeiter! So like I said, I have been absolutely ruthless with myself in asking the Lord if at any point I am being deceived because I know I am prone to deception as much as any man. The moment we think we’re not subject to being deceived is the moment we’re more vulnerable. So I wanted to encourage you in what, in my opinion, is a very good thought process you are taking!
This has gone on much too long and I need to get to bed so I’ll leave it at that. Thanks again for sharing, it was really a great blessing to me!
Mike
Mike,
Thanks for you words.I did not leave the church because of what I saw wrong. I had put that down to the fact that we are all human and make mistakes.” If you find the perfect church, don’t join it because you will spoil it” was the advice I followed.
It was God who told me to leave the church I was attending. After I took that step, I found that He was not telling me simply to leave that church, but the system as a whole.I had been given several visions, over a long period of time, which suddenly became clear following that realisation. Then I began to have dreams which showed me the seriousness of the error in the church. Firstly, concerning the last one I had attended, then about the wider church. I needed this because I still felt defensive about the church and wondered if I had somehow got it wrong.
Only when we hear the ‘voice’ of God we can have assurance about our actions. I continue to test all things e.g. that it is the voice of God that I am hearing and that what I am hearing lines up with His Word.
I have always loved home groups but they are usually under the umbrella of a particular church and it would be wrong for me to pretend when I am not truly with them. I do not wish to sew discontent or abuse hospitality. I must have freedom to speak honestly.
I do not entirely ‘neglect to meet together with others’. I belong to two so-called ‘para’ church organisations which exist for the purpose of outreach and fellowship. I say ‘so-called’ because they are as much ‘church’ as the Sunday ones except that they are inter-denominational and practical. I also associate with a prophetic ministry which teaches in various churches. This can create difficulties in that we are there at the pastors invitation and have to be cautious of treading on toes. What is taught can be quickly forgotten as well, if the Pastor does not encourage ongoing practice.Because of potential conflict I don’t feel at liberty to continue ministry in churches. I will not put myself ( or the Holy Spirit) in a straight Jacket.
I am confident that the Lord will eventually reveal what’s next and I am content to wait on His voice.
I will visit you web-site for a further look. Blessings.
Mario said in his “DREAM of the 2 BOATS:
Something that I take very serious is when children receive something from the Lord. As it says in Acts and Joel, “In the last days the children will prophesy.”
About 6 weeks ago our daughter, who is 12 yrs old, woke up one
morning and told us about a dream she had that night. It was a
“strong” dream. One of those dreams that is so very real and vivid.
The kind that you remember clearly and in detail, and that leaves
a very strong impression. As it turns out, it was clearly a prophetic
dream.
Andrews question:
-Is this a prophetic picture of the church? Discuss it now below-
Gary’s post:
I believe that we as the church, have become very loose in our acceptance of what is “prophetic”.
Yes, it does say in scripture that:
JOEL 2:28 “And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
It is a stretch to say that our daughters will dream dreams (red flag). That is not what this verse says.
It says that old men will dream dreams.
It says that your daughters will prophesy.
It is a further stretch to say that God will give them a dream, and NOT give them, or another of God’s prophets, the interpretation of the dream (red flag).
God does not ask men to interpret for Him either (red flag). That is what false prophets attempt to do.
According to my Bible, God alone is the one who interprets dreams, as is stated below in Gen 40:8:
GE 40:8 “We both had dreams,” they answered, “but there is no one to interpret them.”
Then Joseph said to them, “Do not interpretations belong to God? Tell me your dreams.”
If the source of the dream is God, then the source of the interpretation will also be God. Both Joseph (above), and Daniel (2:26-28) confirmed this.
God does not ask us to speculate about whether a dream is prophetic, or what a dream means. People who do that are considered by God to be false prophets.
True prophets of God speak the truth that they receive from God. They don’t have to guess or speculate, because they know what God told them.
God’s word tells us to be Bereans, and to compare what we hear with what scripture teaches us, to see if it is true:
Acts 17:11 – 11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Summary:
Are you a Berean?
Do you check what you hear against what God has said in the Bible?
How does this article by Mario about his daughter’s dream, line up with the truth of God’s word?
Does it come up short?
I cannot accept this dream as prophetic.
It could be a picture of the church, but that alone does not make it prophetic.
It may be a strong dream, but that alone does not make it prophetic.
To be prophetic, it must originate in the mind of God, and it must be in complete agreement with the revealed Word of God (Bible).
When I compare it with the Word of God, there are too many red flags.
A truly prophetic dream from God will be without red flags, as were Joseph’s and Daniel’s.
Gary,
Nebuchadnezzar was given a dream .It made him afraid. He made a decree that all the wise men be brought to him to make known to him the meaning of the dream.( Daniel 4:4-6.)
1) The dream was from God.
2)He hadn’t a clue what it meant.
3) He finally asked Daniel the interpretation.
4)God had given Daniel an understanding in all visions and dreams (Daniel 1:17) and he was able to answer him.
In Chapter 2 of Daniel we read where the king had another dream,and threatened to kill all the wisemen including Daniel and his friends because an interpretation was not forthcoming.Daniel’s friends prayed , seeking mercy from God concerning the ‘mystery’.Then the ‘mystery’ was revealed to Daniel in a ‘ vision of the night.’
The source of the dreams was God but it was Daniel, enabled by God , who interpreted.
In your reference to Genesis Ch. 40 it was the butler and baker who had dreams. Again they had no idea until Josep interpreted them. Just as well they asked.
What then is wrong with a girl having a dream and having to ask her parents what it meant?
Joseoh had a dream when he was 17, a boy by our standards, still under his fathers authority . His brothers seemed to understand its meaning. He had another, clearly from God also. They both came to pass eventually , as you know. However, it seems that he could not, by your standard ,have such a dream today , because he was not an old man.Do you really think that God has limited dreams to men over a certain age now and that young men can only have visions up to a certain age? I have often, jokingly, bemoaned that God speaks to me in dreams, thereby calling me old.I may be , but why do I still have visions or hear God’s audible voice? Has He forgotten the rules? Do you really think that God has disqualified the female sex from receiving His prophetic words?
Seriously, you are splitting hairs. God said “I will pour my spirit on all flesh” That means all can prophesy – men, women, girls and boys and God can use whatever medium he wishes to communicate. ‘Sons and daughters shall prophecy” At what age shall they be allowed to begin and when must they cease.? My wife and my daughter both have given ‘words’ – my daughter at probably age 16 or so because that was when she was baptised in the Holy Spirit.The red flags are your lack of understanding . God speaks in whatever way He chooses, be it an audible voice, thoughts , impressions, visions, dreams,quickening of scripture , things about us. Take tongues for example. Do all interpret? (1 Cor. 12 :30) We have to test all things because scripture tells us to . If we were always right that would not be necessary.It is apparent that you have never seen a vision or dream from God or you would not be arguing so. Have you received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? Without that, you can only have a ‘head knowledge’.
Do not compare Old Testament prophets with New Testament, although in saying that do you realise that some old testament prophets got it wrong? I will leave it to you to seek those scriptures out as a good Berean. I hope I do not sound too rough, but you are calling people false prophets. Should you not submit your questions with more respect for you brothers and sisters in Christ?
2 Kings
1Josiah was “eight years old” when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem thirty-one years. His mother was Jedidah, the daughter of Adaiah from Bozkath. 2He did what was PLEASING in the Lord’s sight and FOLLOWED the example of his ancestor David. He did not turn away from doing what was right. :)
Eight years old is so very young, yet this young lad followed the Lord and did what was right in the sight of the Lord, Praise GOD!
Galations 3
25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26For you are ALL sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For ALL of you WHO WERE BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST have clothed yourselves with Christ. :)
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither MALE nor FEMALE; for you are ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS. 29And IF you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
Romans 3:21
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for ALL those who BELIEVE; for there is NO DISTINCTION;
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by ONE SPIRIT we were all baptized into ONE BODY, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and WE WERE ALL MADE TO DRINK OF ONE SPIRIT.
It is truly Amazing and Awesome how often the Lord will use the very thing that He KNOWS, some people will try to come against and try to reason from within in their own natural/fleshly minds. All things are TRULY possible with God to those whom TRULY BELIEVE~
Hab 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Psa 19:1 ..The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
The Lord is always speaking in many and various ways. Recently I saw large clouds very clearly in the form of what looked like Hebrew letters on my way to the grocery store – they stayed in that form and when I came out of the grocery store those letters were still there all the way home! I didn’t know what it meant, but it filled me with joy and made me worship the Lord. When I looked them up I discovered it was the name of YHWH ! We might argue over whether that was prophetic or not, but no one would be able to convince me that wasn’t the Lord speaking..
Harvey Rosieur I can relate to so much of what you are saying about the church system – when the Lord brought me out I still didn’t have a clue what was going on but as time went on He gave me the understanding. At one point He lead me to attend a series of meetings from someone who was ministering in my area for a while. Then He lead me to a church for about 1 and half years, where it seemed all I did was warn about false prophecy, false christs, deception etc, and felt like I was raining on their parade all the time without wanting to. They did not receive the message and at one point the Lord told me to leave this church, and gave me the explicit warning of Lot’s wife not to look back. I have a friend in the neighbourhood that I get together with to fellowship and pray with once in a while. I fellowship on the internet from time to time, as we are doing here, and I too have struggled with that scripture about not forsaking assembling together. But I am encouraged by the examples of Moses and Jesus who while they were in the wilderness did not attend synagogue or assemble with other Israelites. There are times and seasons in the Lord, as Solomon said, and there are times when it is simply a life or death necessity spiritually to be separate and apart and alone with Lord.
I think of Jesus and His disciples picking wheat on the Sabbath because they were hungry and in need of food, and when Jesus was accused He said that He is Lord of the Sabbath first of all, and secondly that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Assembling together was for the purpose of mutual encouragement and strengthening, it was made for man, man was not made for it, and Jesus is Lord of assembling together. May the Lord bless you all who follow and obey the Living God and not the dead letter! Hallelujah! All glory and honour and praise to the Lord our God who is alive and ruling and reigning in the hearts of His people!
After her bat mitzvah at 12 a girl is considered a woman. This is absolutely a prophetic dream. Here is a vision I was given in September:
Monday, September 7, 2009
The LORD said: “My girls need to be in prayer.”
I saw women clothed in holy array holding metallic red and gold tabrets (Holy Spirit fire). They had what they needed but they weren’t using them. They are standing around in small groups talking and laughing but they were supposed to be doing warfare. They missed the signal to begin because they are not focusing on the LORD. He said: “I’m ready to start but they’re not listening to Me.”
They appeared to be standing on a dock. Some of the women were getting into boats and anything else that came along. The Lord said: “Some will follow any wind of doctrine. Read nothing without asking My permission.”
Others are trying to hold them back and tell them to wait, but they won’t wait. There are preachers teaching the truth, but they won’t hear. The waters are rising and they are afraid. Some will fall away. Don’t get discouraged. Don’t drown trying to save them. Protect the faithful ones.
Then I saw one church floating on a glass raft. The pastor was preaching the true Word, but some are leaving. The pastor wants to jump off the raft and swim out to save those who are leaving, but his wife and some of the men stop him and encourage him in the Spirit. When I first see the raft the sun is shining and there is just a gentle breeze but God is warning His people. The people sing songs, hymns and spiritual songs. They dance for joy, even when the storms come and the water begins to get higher. Others who are not dressed in holy array come out to you on wooden rafts and are pulled to safety. There is not much space on the raft to begin with, but it expands to make room for whoever comes. It gets larger and larger and the Lord provides a table full of food. The waves are getting higher and higher but the faithful sit at a feast. They are aware of the storms around them, but it does not bother them. There are storms on all sides but directly over the raft is the glory of the Lord. Authorities come to arrest you because you are on a raft alone and in danger but they are afraid and can’t approach the golden white light that is around you.
When you are cold there is, miraculously, a roaring fire burning by itself on a glass raft. Whatever is needed, the Lord provides, but only as it is needed. When a table and chairs appear, you sit and study. When food appears, you eat. When there are no chairs, you dance. When people come needing to be saved, you pull them in and rescue them. The Lord said: “The key to your joy is that I lead and you follow. You will have great joy as long as you rest in Me and follow Me. Don’t mourn over those you can’t save. Don’t crave the kinds of food I don’t give you. Don’t long for the things of Egypt – just rejoice in what I provide. You don’t have a stockpile. I give only when it is needed. Rejoice in what I am doing. Be thankful for what I give you. “
The raft begins to be covered but it appears you are walking on water. The Lord said: “Your shoes will get wet. Indeed, you will lose the raft and you would be separated if not for Me. You never lose the presence of God but you must listen to My voice so that you can all be in unity and find one another. I will guide you back together.”
I see the church at large in a huge circle. Only our heads and shoulders are out of the water now, but we are all holding hands and singing together in tongues. When the water splashes our faces we laugh like children playing. The Lord said: “Keep your focus on Me. Some want to drift away on their own and they are lost. Your clothes won’t wear out. No one is sick or hungry. Look to Me to meet your needs.”
As more people come the circle expands and the glory of God above us expands. We are barely aware of the thunderclouds and waves that surround our circle. Some people leave as they are “rescued” here and there by false teachings. There are many captains of huge cruise ships who preach to them and promise them safety and comfort. There are also false prophets who come on speed boats and sailboats, seadoos, fishing boats, even submarines – some with just a few people. But the captains are all wolves in sheep’s clothing and when people go with them they are lost. I see one particular captain of a cruise ship. He is not deluded like some of the other pastors; he is a son of satan and is deliberately trying to steal God’s people. I see another false prophet who comes only with his wife on a speedboat, offering us wine and great delicacies to eat. He wants to join us but when we won’t eat his delicacies he gets offended and leaves. Other cruise ship captains of all kinds try to entice us by saying: “We have a huge theater and many people. Think how many people you could reach if you came with us.” One captain even says: “Our internet is still working, come with us. You can keep your jobs.” Another says his ship offers college classes and promises to educate our children. But we will not leave the presence of the Lord. Individually and collectively the enemy accuses us, tempts us, condemns us. Repeatedly he says: “Did God really say . . . ,” but we are all so full of the presence of the LORD that we easily shake it off.
The waters continue to rise, but we are rejoicing because the Lord is coming. Then Jesus is there and begins to minister to each of us individually, saying: “Do you trust Me? Relax.” Like a baptism, He then pushes us down into the water and we are free. We are like Him at last; our bodies no longer need oxygen – we need only Him.
Then He reminded Me of what He told me on July 3:
Start laying up stores for yourselves. Hear Me! It is imperative that you listen and act now. Many will come in My name but they are not from Me. Hold tight to each other. Hold tight to Me. Everything that can be shaken will be shaken. You have a short time to prepare. Pray about everything. Every decision will be critical. Big changes are coming fast. Then He gave me a picture of us sinking under the water along with a vast throng of people but He took our hands and lifted us out one by one. Multitudes of people are walking through water that is just above their heads and they don’t even notice. They just keep going through the motions. The Lord lifts His own up on a glass platform and we watch the people go by who are drowning and do not even realize it.
Then the Lord said: “The time is now. Prepare! I will give you time and money but you must begin now. I will help you. Ask Me before making decisions.
TELL THEM TO PRAY!!!
Hi Harvey,
Yes, I would have to agree with you about the term “parachurch”. It’s a word someone came up with that has nothing to do with anything I see in the bible. I think it comes from a wrong concept of “church” (as we were talking about earlier) and failing to see the church as ekklesia.
One thing I didn’t make clear in my earlier post that I probably should have, is that when I talk about being free to gather with those who are in traditional church structures, I am not saying that means I’ll just go anywhere; I definitely exercise discernment. After our home group stopped meeting recently my wife and I began to visit with a few fellowships in and out of our immediate area, and in some cases the first visit will be the last! I am not at all advocating that we just go anywhere- not by any means- I think we need to use discernment; and really that applies to home groups as well. But I did not want to leave anyone with the impression that we should just “go somewhere, anywhere” just to be in fellowship- that is not my heart at all.
What I was trying to address was the whole idea of being “out of the system” that so many talk about, and that you feel God has told you to leave. I believe many are failing to see that “leaving the system” is about much more than externals. I have seen worse things in home churches, and in those who are out-of-church, than I have sometimes seen in so called “traditional churches”. I have seen some very serious error and bad doctrine and apostasy in BOTH traditional churches and those who are outside “the system”. Leaving the traditional churches is no safe zone. I can say without hesitation, that for some, it would be FAR BETTER if they were gathering with a good bible believing church than being out on there own in what they call their “wilderness experience”. These Christians may be well meaning, but because they lack sound doctrine and a solid biblical foundation, they can easily be the means of bringing harm to themselves and others. I don’t say this lightly, I have seen it in way too many instances. What is going on outside “the system” is often FAR WORSE than what is happening inside!
As far as leaving the system goes… You can be out of the system, but still exist within it, just as you can be in the world but not of it. Jesus did not become “unclean” because He lived and walked in this world, and we do not become part of the “whore church” (as some call it) just because we step in the front door of a mega church! Some seem to believe that EVERY church is “Ichabod” and unless they completely “come out” they are under God’s judgment. I don’t believe that. (I’m not saying that’s what you personally believe either Harley) But you’ve talked about God leading you “out of the system” and I’m not really sure what that always means because, as I said earlier, “the system” is not something that just exists in certain structures, it is found outside these structures as well! So some have left their mega church but they fail to realize that they themselves, or the home group that they’re in, have gone into error and are infected with this “system” though they are blind to it. So what if they’ve left the building?
So I don’t look at every church as anathema and something I have to come out of; I can use discernment and find the Lord at work in many places! That’s why my wife and I are not sitting home alone during this time of being outside of a home fellowship. We’d prefer to gather simply, but I can give and receive from the Lord in many places and in many structures.
There’s no legal requirement that we must gather together (I don’t see a command in my bible that we must meet in such and such a way, or x number of times) but we’ll be better off if we do gather! Just as there are no requirements that I must read my bible so many times a week, but if I open my bible I will be refreshed and blessed that I did. That’s why we take the approach we do, and because we have sought out churches, we’ve been blessed. Sure, there are some we’d never go back to, but we’ve also been very blessed to meet with God’s people and experience Jesus’ presence in our midst in places some out-of-church Christians have already decided are “the system” and under God’s judgment. Really? That’s a crazy kind of judgment then for God to pour out His Spirit upon His people and bless us with His presence, His conviction, His life!
I’ve enjoyed discussing this with you Harvey, and been very blessed by many of the things you’ve shared. Thanks for engaging in some great discussion and sharing your thoughts.
His blessings!
Mike
Teshuvah, this quote below captured my heart I do believe it was from the Lord. Thank You, God Bless, Lynn
Quote:
The Lord said: “The key to your joy is that I lead and you follow
This is exactly how it is to be, and there is fullness and the joy of the Lord and such a sweet spirit of peace when he is at the helm. Oh Lord this truely is my hearts desire.Our Precious Shephard and our Lord. Amen
Yout Quote:
Start laying up stores for yourselves. Hear Me! It is imperative that you listen and act now.
Could you please explain this word you said you heard the Lord speak.
Thanks and God Bless, lynna little further please.
“Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:20-21 NIV).
Jesus was not saying to the Pharisees that He would not come back and reign in Jerusalem on the throne of His “father David” for a thousand years and then create a new heaven and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, nor was He saying that He would not practically fulfil every other scripture in between when He made this statement but He was trying to get the Pharisees attention not to focus on the onward but to focus on the inward.
As humans we all have a tendency to create kingdoms on earth. As humans we tend to like to own things. We tend to like to own houses, boats, cars, holiday homes, extra boats and extra cars, rental properties, canoes, bicycles, you get my point… :-)
As humans we also llike to control things, the things we own (or think we own)…
We tend to focus on the external and not on the internal.
If God could bring a human being to a place where they didn’t focus at all on the outward or the external things, if God could bring a human being to a place where they didn’t want to own anything, hold on to anything or control anything, then He could begin to deal with what is inside that human being which is their heart, which is where all those desires come from.
“The kingdom of God is within you” Jesus said to the Pharisees. When God looks at a human being whether that human being is saved or whether that human being is not saved is immediately obvious to the Lord because He sees whether that human being has a new heart and a new spirit and the Holy Spirit living inside that human being or whether that human is still “dead in tresspasses and sins”.
We find it alot harder, without the gift of discernment and the Holy Spirit’s wisdom within us, to know whether any particular human being is saved or not.
When God sees those key aspects of a new heart, a new spirit and the Holy Spirit within a human being He knows that the kingdom of God has come to that human being. This does not mean that that human being is necessarily living in perfect obedience to the desires of their new heart, new spirit and the Holy Spirit at that point in time but the Lord sees that the tranformation process going on for that human being to become transformed into the image of His Son.
That is what the Lord is interested in, at the end of the day, the Lord desires truth in our inward parts,
“Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom” (Ps 51:6 NASB)
and He will make us know wisdom as He reveals Himself to us through His “inbuilt”, Indwelling Teacher, the Holy Spirit, who will “take of everything that Jesus said and bring it to our remembrance” and “guide us into all truth” from scripture.
We must remember that the Holy Spirit wrote the scripture and that the truth of scripture is “spiritually discerned” so that no human being can know the truth of scripture except by revelation of the Holy Spirit.
So what am I saying?
If in a human being’s heart they possess a new heart, a new spirit and the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is teaching them wisdom in their innermost being by giving them a peace to sit in a physical building or house with a group of others whom they believe to have the same characteristics as themselves and to learn from what is shared, take maybe just some things out of what is said and ignore the rest because it doesn’t “gel” with their new heart, new spirit or the Holy Spirit within them, well and good.
If another human being with the same characteristics has a peace from God to remove themselves from these physical buildings or houses where other human beings are gathering to discuss spiritual things and is being led by the Holy Spirit to be taught directly by Him through the scriptures for a season of time – as was the case for Elijah, John the Baptist, Moses, Jesus and the Apostle Paul from scripture (and I’m sure a lot of others) – to enable truth to be established in their inmost beings then, well and good.
Who are we to judge another man’s servant?
If a “church” (not ekklesia), i.e. a group of people meeting in a physical building or a house (or an internet forum such as this one for that matter), are controlled by any other spirit than the Spirit of God – i.e. the spirit “presiding over” the “coming together, the one in actual control in that gathering – then they are not meeting for any purpose which will further the establishment of the kingdom of God being established in the hearts of the human beings who meet in that physical building or house or internet forum by the Holy Spirit.
If any particular physical building or house or internet forum becomes devoid of the Holy Spirit but rather controlled by a spirit of fear, control (Jezebel), pride, striving, sexual immorality, witchcraft, debauchery, etc, then what is the purpose of a human being who has a new heart, a new spirit and the Holy Spirit living within them, to attend this physical building or house or be involved with that internet forum? Wouldn’t the Holy Spirit within them show them, in the Spirit, that this physical building or house or internet forum is not the place for them?
Until the Holy Spirit shows someone this they should continue to attend whatever physical building or house they attend for the purpose of the kingdom of God being grown or further established within them.
All those human beings who have a new heart, a new spirit and the Holy Spirit living within them will have the truth of God established in their hearts by the Holy Spirit no matter where their every day life experiences take them, at their job, at the dentist, picking their children up from school, mowing the lawns, paying their bills, etc.
The Lord mets us and prepares for us each circumstance of our lives to conform us into the image of His Son,
“All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be” (Psalm 139:16 NIV).
Even if we find in ourselves who have a new heart, a new spirit and the Holy Spirit, a resistance or rebellion to what we see the Lord performing in us at various points in time the scripture assures us that the Lord is still protecting us and bringing us through that situation to experience His truth in the innermost being,
“Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,” even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you” (Psalm 139:7-12 NIV).
So whatever the Lord, who is our Shepherd, tells us to do we will, eventually [ :-) ], do – take Jonah for example – and if the Lord is telling certain human beings who have a new heart, a new spirit and the Holy Spirit within them at this time to come aside from physical buildings or houses or even internet forums where “the fellowship of the Holy Spirit” is not a “happening thing” then well and good.
We all, those of us who have new hearts, new spirits and the Holy Spirit within us, desire and yearn for the true “fellowship of the Holy Spirit”. This has been established in us by the Lord Himself,
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin” (1 John 1:7 NIV).
Jesus has also prayed that we – those of us who have a new heart, a new spirit and the Holy Spirit living within us – all would be one, that the Father would bring us together in perfect unity that the world would believe that the Father had sent Jesus and had loved us even as He had loved Jesus, in John 17.
Who are we to tell God the Father how He should answer Jesus’ prayer? Do we really know the way that God the Father works in each of us? Do we really know where He has to take each of us “from” and where He is taking each of us “to” in our individual walks with Him? Yes, we know generally, that He is transforming us into the image of His Son, but do we know specifically His individual plan for each one of how He is going to achieve this in our lives?
So, at this point in time what is it that the Holy Spirit is leading each of us, individually – who have new hearts, new spirits and the Holy Spirit living within us – to “come out of” and what is it that He leading us, individually, to “come in to”? This should be our concern at this point in time.
“Yes, we know generally, that He is transforming us into the image of His Son, but do we know specifically His individual plan for each one of how He is going to achieve this in our lives?”
No, but we need to know what time it is, the issue isn’t so much our individual walk, one thing we can know is that He is calling ALL of His people to come out of Babylon in these last days.
The Lord is so patient and kind, and He knows it takes time for us to realize His will, and to count the cost, and there are so many who have stopped at Zoar like I did, but there does come a time when judgment can’t be held back any longer. Zoar means “small”, it’s just a smaller version of the same thing we have come out of, for Lot a smaller version of Sodom and Gomorrah. We need to carry on all the way to the mountains. We need to be asking the way to Zion and turning our faces to it..
This morning the Lord led me to Jeremiah 50 and 51 – I just can’t see that there is any room in the scriptures for lingering in Babylon, and the call of the Spirit to come out is very urgent! He who has an ear let him hear!
Isa 26:20 Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by.
Jeremiah 50
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jer&c=50&v=1&t=NIV#top
Jeremiah 51
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jer&c=51&v=1&t=NIV#top
Hi “watchful”, as you know and as I’ve posted previously, I have heard the Lord’s voice for me personally (around 5.5 years ago) and I have removed myself, at this point in time, from the “organised” or “institutionalised” church and also from “home groups” or “cell groups”.
I have been letting the Lord establish “true faith” in me in Him alone and have been experiencing a practical death to sin and establishment of His life living through me so that His life is becoming more and more the natural way that I live.
I have no desire to go back and to be honest don’t believe that I will ever step within the door of any of the abovementioned “church” activities again. I just have no desire for it. If the Lord specifically tells me to though, I will obey Him.
I have a desire for an “open heaven” where the “presiding spirit” is not of the devil but is the Holy Spirit Himself. In revival the Holy Spirit comes down on a town or city (and I believe before the great and terrible day of the Lord will even come down on entire nations) and becomes the “Presiding Spirit” over those towns and cities (and even nations) for a time or season. In or under this “open heaven” those who have been prepared by the Lord will be able to minister freely – as on the day of Pentecost – in the power of the Holy Spirit. Sure there will be opposition but there will be an “open heaven”. There will not be any “shut down” like what we experience in so many if not all of the “church” activities mentioned above.
I agree with you completely “watchful” that the Lord is going to destroy all forms of the “church” activities described above which are not pleasing to Him and which do not follow His truth and are not originated and led by His Holy Spirit. When I say destroy I mean that He will “give them over” to deceiving spirits and that they will become “a haunt of jackels”, there will be no life (Holy Spirit) left in them, they will be “dedicated to destruction” and be completely worthless to anyone who has the Spirit of God in them.
When I say in my posts above, “flee from the wrath to come” I am actually addressing those who think they are saved but aren’t, who are involved with any of these “church” activities as described above. These ones aren’t under the Blood at all, they are still “objects of wrath even as the rest” (Eph 2:3) and these do need to “flee from the wrath to come” which is eternity in the lake of fire and brimestone and come to saving faith in Jesus Christ.
When David had to flee from his son Absolom, he left a trusted servant in the court to act as an informant to keep him posted on developments, now I’m not using that analogy directly in this situation but it could be possible that the Lord is leaving some of His saved ones in the “church” activities as described above to “pull others to safety”. I’m not sure because He hasn’t told me.
I know that He protects all His saved ones and brings out “those that He loves whom he’s rebuking and disciplining” (Rev 3:19) who are not saved ones yet but will be soon, these are the ones who need to be “zealous therefore and repent” and “flee from the wrath to come”.
I too have had a sense that my wife and I and our family, our two older girls and their three sons and our three younger children are being protected at this time of “sifting” by being where we are (similar to what you allude to in Isaiah 26:20) and it’s also a time for us of “refining” in readiness for what the Lord has next.
I heard a prophetic word back at a men’s Intercessors weekend held in Kaikoura, NZ back in 2001 (from memory) where the word came for the “church” in NZ that the Lord was going to move through our nation like a hurricane and that there would be a division in the “church” – a clear division it seemed of those who knew the Lord and were trusting His word and those who didn’t (in so many words) – this was a good thing as it would reveal who were the True Church – standing on Christ – and who were not. Looking back when I left the “institutionalised” church at the end of 2004 / early 2005 I suppose that was a fulfilment of that word.
I hear your heart in your posts “watchful” and the Lord has spoken to me in a similar vein so I’m personally most likely (as much as I can tell) in complete agreement with what you’re saying the Lord has shown you personally but I’m also aware that the Lord needs to speak to each of His saved ones individually – as this is a big decision for each of us to make – and that at the end of the day the purpose for “coming out of” is to “come in to” the fulness of Christ in our lives so that we’re ready for what He’s got in store for us next which I believe will be achieved in unity with all these saved ones whom He has “brought out” and “refined”.
Praise the Lord, God is so good Andrew J., I was about to tie my head up in knots over this with my natural mind, but the wisdom that came from above is this: that we must not be yoked together with them (false church). That is a vital key – if anyone is yoked together with the false church they are still part of it but and they need to sever the yoke (ties) if they want to “come out of her”..
2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
2 Cor 6 is an awesome chapter “watchful”, I just read it again to refresh my memory and get context.
2 Cor 6:17 is a direct quote from Isaiah 52:11 so I went back and read Isaiah 52, the whole chapter, again to get context.
Isaiah 52 is a pretty awesome chapter:
“Awake, awake,
Clothe yourself in your strength, O Zion;
Clothe yourself in your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
For the uncircumcised and the unclean
Will no longer come into you.
Shake yourself from the dust, rise up,
O captive Jerusalem;
Loose yourself from the chains around your neck,
O captive daughter of Zion.
For thus says the LORD, “You were sold for nothing and you will be redeemed without money.”
For thus says the Lord GOD, “My people went down at the first into Egypt to reside there; then the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.
“Now therefore, what do I have here,” declares the LORD, “seeing that My people have been taken away without cause?” Again the LORD declares, “Those who rule over them howl, and My name is continually blasphemed all day long.
“Therefore My people shall know My name; therefore in that day I am the one who is speaking, ‘Here I am.’”
How lovely on the mountains
Are the feet of him who brings good news,
Who announces peace
And brings good news of happiness,
Who announces salvation,
And says to Zion, “Your God reigns!”
Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices,
They shout joyfully together;
For they will see with their own eyes
When the LORD restores Zion.
Break forth, shout joyfully together,
You waste places of Jerusalem;
For the LORD has comforted His people,
He has redeemed Jerusalem.
The LORD has bared His holy arm
In the sight of all the nations,
That all the ends of the earth may see
The salvation of our God.
Depart, depart, go out from there,
Touch nothing unclean;
Go out of the midst of her, purify yourselves,
You who carry the vessels of the LORD.
But you will not go out in haste,
Nor will you go as fugitives;
For the LORD will go before you,
And the God of Israel will be your rear guard.
Behold, My servant will prosper,
He will be high and lifted up and greatly exalted.
Just as many were astonished at you, My people,
So His appearance was marred more than any man
And His form more than the sons of men.
Thus He will sprinkle many nations,
Kings will shut their mouths on account of Him;
For what had not been told them they will see,
And what they had not heard they will understand.” (Isaiah 52 NASB)
2 Cor 6:18 is a direct quote from 2 Sam 7:14, 1 Chron 17:13, Isaiah 43:6 & Hosea 1:10 which say:
“I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men
“I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men,
but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you.” (2 Sam 7:14-15 NASB)
“I will be his father and he shall be My son; and I will not take My lovingkindness away from him, as I took it from him who was before you.
“But I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever.”‘” (2 Chron 17:13-14 NASB)
“But now, thus says the LORD, your Creator, O Jacob,
And He who formed you, O Israel,
“Do not fear, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by name; you are Mine!
“When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they will not overflow you
When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched,
Nor will the flame burn you.
“For I am the LORD your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I have given Egypt as your ransom,
Cush and Seba in your place.
“Since you are precious in My sight,
Since you are honored and I love you,
I will give other men in your place and other peoples in exchange for your life.
“Do not fear, for I am with you;
I will bring your offspring from the east,
And gather you from the west.
“I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
And to the south, ‘Do not hold them back’
Bring My sons from afar
And My daughters from the ends of the earth,
Everyone who is called by My name,
And whom I have created for My glory,
Whom I have formed, even whom I have made.” (Isaiah 43:1-7 NASB)
“The word of the LORD which came to Hosea the son of Beeri, during the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and during the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.
When the LORD first spoke through Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea, “Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotry and have children of harlotry; for the land commits flagrant harlotry, forsaking the LORD.”
So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.
And the LORD said to him, “Name him Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will punish the house of Jehu for the bloodshed of Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel.
“On that day I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.”
Then she conceived again and gave birth to a daughter. And the LORD said to him, “Name her Lo-ruhamah, for I will no longer have compassion on the house of Israel, that I would ever forgive them.
“But I will have compassion on the house of Judah and deliver them by the LORD their God, and will not deliver them by bow, sword, battle, horses or horsemen.”
When she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived and gave birth to a son.
And the LORD said, “Name him Lo-ammi, for you are not My people and I am not your God.”
Yet the number of the sons of Israel
Will be like the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered;
And in the place
Where it is said to them,
“You are not My people,”
It will be said to them,
“You are the sons of the living God.”
And the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel will be gathered together,
And they will appoint for themselves one leader,
And they will go up from the land,
For great will be the day of Jezreel.” (Hosea 1 NASB)
Hosea 1:10 is also directly quoted by the Apostle Paul in Rom 9:26 which says:
“And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
As He says also in Hosea,
“I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ‘MY PEOPLE,’
AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, ‘BELOVED.’”
“AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, ‘YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,’
THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.”