DEATH of the USURPER CHURCH
-by Stephen St. Louis.
God has ever kept for Himself a remnant who have not bent a knee nor kissed Baal (1 Kings 19:18). We may be looking at that even now. Several months ago, the Lord gave me an insight during worship that I felt compelled to write down. I shared it with my pastor. The jist of it was that God was going to deal harshly with the Usurper Church and her leaders so that His true bride might take her rightful place once more. Whether this will happen before Christ comes back or when He comes back I can’t tell you, nor do I believe it is particularly important. The main focus (and the reason why I gave it to my pastor in the first place) is that we need to make sure we are part of the Bride and not the Usurper.
The PROPHECY ITSELF
I was in church having listened to an announcement about the
money needed for the elevator ($30,000) thinking to myself, “Do
we really need it? What else could that money be used for? If they
can raise that money that fast to put an elevator in, why can’t they
do the same to put towards missions or helping those in need in
our own community?”
As worship started again, I felt this welling up inside that just
had to come out so I wrote it all down (hence the desire to have
the actual words). It started off with almost a rebuke about not
doing those things which the Bible clearly calls us to: looking
after the needs of the poor, the lost and the hurting.
Then it went into what God was going to do about it. Firstly, he
was going to deal harshly with, as I said before, the Usurper,
meaning the people that call themselves The Church but are not.
He was using words like “expose her ugliness” and the image
that I had was of a beautiful bride in a veil who is discovered to
be ugly and fat and diseased when the veil is lifted. God said He
was going to remove the usurper and restore His true bride to her
rightful place.
Now as for the bit about the usurper’s leaders I believe the words
used were “fall by the hundreds and by the thousands.”
I came across another “word” that I’d written down about a month
before (dated April 18th 2010). The two go surprisingly hand in hand.
Again I was sitting in church during the worship. I believe I had my
Bible open to 1 Samuel 5 (either that or the Lord brought that story
to mind).This is what He said.
“… How much time do you think you have? Repent. Repent of
substituting my idea of church for yours. I did not build my church
with bricks and stone but with hearts and minds… I am going to
crush the idol of mammon like I did Dagon only worse. Those that
worship that idol will be crushed beneath it. Those whose hope is
in mammon will be devastated by its destruction.”
The image that I had in my head while I was writing this was of
an idol of stone being exploded violently such that only the tiniest
pieces remained. It was shattered beyond description or repair.
-Please comment on the “Death of the Usurper church” below-
Yes, I feel the same way. One of the major churches in town does an extravagent Christmas pageant, complete with real camels. It costs in the thousands, and the church it is SURE to “being unbelievers in”. Yeah right. My old church also did the same thing with a “Harvest” festival that was just another Halloween thing.
Take that money, host a job fair in this economy, a wellness clinic with free medical care, or just use the money and buy bags of groceries instead, and see if the people dont show up in droves….
and I think people would get a more favorable opinion of US, the Church, if instead of showing how much we know, we show how much we care..
Yes this seems to be a harsh word but in line with Bible standards. What can the church do to be the church rather than an institution similar to secular coporations except under the hypocrisy of pretending to be “non-profit” when many at the “top” of church/ministry pyramid schemes are quite wealthy?
This has been my prayer and heartcry for years. That God would remove the false so that the true church could shine forth the Glory of God to a lost and dying world. I hope that it is through revival but am terribly afraid that it will take persecution. The kind perhaps that we saw in the dark ages or worse. Either way I must say “do it Lord for your glory and honor.”
We must not apply this prophecy only to the large fancy churches because most small churches are guilty of the same. We as individual as well. My prayer is that God gives me the grace to live only for eternity and His glory.
Hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent on extravagant, state-of-the-art sound and video systems, millions on property and buildings. Even vast amounts of money for “missions” to other countries, when the poor people who live in the same town go without not only material necessities, but the Good News offered to them.
Church services in most churches today are for the enjoyment of those in attendance and not to worship the Lord. In essence, people are worshiping themselves.
Tell any pastor of any church in America that there is no longer any money to pay their salary and see how many are left standing in the pulpit.
At the end of his life, Leonard Ravenhill predicted that no more than 2% of professing Christians in our country actually had a saving relationship with Christ. The “shaking” and the “crushing” is going to be devastating.
Thank you Stephen for your sensitive spirit to the obvious heart of God.
I think I submitted a similar article called Amorality and the Administration of the Church, but possibly to Andrews credit it was never published.
I see the gray being far more dangerous to Our Lords Body than the black and white.
Good churches full of good people who get caught up in “The Church System”. Meaning the administration of a church is a business, maybe it must be. City ordinances may require a million dollars be spent on a parking lot, in order for the church to facilitate the flock, all the while the missions fund in under 200K and all giving combined in well under the parking lot fund.
My home church has one of the Godliest pastors I’ve known, his teachings are obviously directly from the heart of God, yet I personally watched a poor widow come into the church in desperate need of medicine for her daughter, and she was told, “We can’t do that, if she had a reaction we could be sued”.
Another time a young teen boy was living in a tent in the woods with no family, money or food. I called this very good church to see if WE could get him help. I was told they are not equipped. Upon pressing the point and reminding the church of my rather sacrifical tithing habits, they said well bring him in “sometime” and we’ll see.
Not wanting the child to reject God, my family took care of him.
This is a “well funded” congregation, 1,000-1,200 strong. Good godly people, a wonderful Godly Pastor.
Somewhere in the Administration, The technicalities, the worries of lawsuits, the concern, if we help one, word will get out and we will be bankrupted. I’m not sure, maybe someone of more depth can see better than I.
How sad, J Byron.
What on earth have we come to?
I was called on October 22, 2003 to warn God’s children. I was very happy to coast out of life as a setting Superintendent of Schools that was getting 100 hugs from the children each day. I was fired for acknowledging God. But prior to that, God had put things into my life for the pryor 10 months and I knew that someone needed to warn HIS people, but I thought David, Andrew, Samuel, or others, I was happy, but God said, “How about you”. I now try to set up “Shake The Nation” Conferences to have HIS servant warriors come from all over the country, knowing the times are urgent. We try to expose evil and the usurper in the church is one of those things we do for protect the children and families. Please email me at gregory@asleepknowmore.com
WHAT A SAD STORY, ALL THAT MONEY FOR AN ELEVATOR.
MY HUSBAND AND I LIVE IN THE INNER-CITY. WE LIVE IN A BUILDING THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED POOR BY MOST IN THIS NATION, HOWEVER WE ARE BECOMING A FAMILY HERE. WE BEGAN PRAYING AND FEEDING PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING AND THE FATHER HAS TOUCHED MANY LIVES. THOSE WHO WANT TO USE ARE BEING SLOWLY REMOVED. ALL THE METH IS GONE AND THE OTHER THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON HERE. WE HAVE TWO BOYS WHO HAVE BEEN ABANDONED BY THERE MOTHER, THEY ARE 14 AND 17 THEY READ THE BIBLE EVERY NIGHT, AND THE YOUNG ONE CRIES AND IS DEEPLY WOUNDED AND ANGRY. THERE IS ANOTHER HERE WHO HAS CANCER AND IS CRYING OUT TO YHWH FOR HELP. THERE WHERE NEVER ANY CHILDREN HERE, BUT SINCE WE HAVE MOVED IN YHWH HAS BROUGHT US 7 BABIES. TWO OF THE MOTHERS WERE SEVERLEY ABUSED AND HAD TO RUN TO PROTECT THERE CHILDREN. THERE USED TO BE SEVERAL GAY COUPLES, BUT THEY HAVE ALL MOVED, AS THEY DONT LIKE THE SPIRIT HERE. ONE OF THEM THOUGH A WOMAN, WHO IS GOING TO JAIL, HAS ALLOWED ME TO SHARE THE GOSPEL AND HAS TAKEN A BOOK FROM ME TO READ CALLED THE GREAT FALLING AWAY BY MILTON GREEENE. I PRAY SHE REPENTS AND DELIVERED FROM THAT DEMON AND BROUGHT INTO THE THE KINGDOM OF LIGHT. LIVING WITH THEM FROM DAY TO DAY, I HAVE SEEN MANY MIRICLES THE FATHER HAS DONE, SUCH AS BROUGHT US MONEY TO HELP PAY THERE RENT, MEDICAL BILLS WIPED OUT, APTS FURNISHED. HE EVEN BROUGHT A LADY UP TO ME ON THE STREET WHO ASKED ME IF I COULD USE THINGS FOR THOSE IN THE BUILDING, AND NOW ONCE A MONTH SHE BRINGS DIAPERS FOR THE BABIES, MILK, CEREAL, CLOTHING TOWELS, SHEETS ,FURNITURE ECT. AND THEY HAVE TO DRIVE 90 MILES TO GET HERE, NOW THAT IS LOVE IN ACTION. SOMDAYS IT LOOKS AS THOUGH NOTHING IS HAPPENING, AND I BECOME DISCOURAGED, BUT THEN, SOMTHING HAPPENS LIKE THE LADIES HERE ASKING THAT I START A BIBLE STUDY FOR THEM, WHICH HAS GOT TO BE YESHUA, BECAUSE IT IS NOT WHAT I WOULD CHOOSE TO DO. I LOVE TO SHARE THE WORD. OH LET ME NOT FORGET TO MENTION OUR SINGLE FATHER, WHO TOOK HIS SON BECAUSE MOM IS ON THE STREETS DOING HER OWN THING, HE SUFFERS FROM A MEDICAL ISSUE, OF HIS BLOOD NOT CLOTTING, AND HAS TO TAKE SHOTS IN HIS STOMACH DAILY. THE LITTLE BOY WHO IS ABSOLUTLEY PRECIOUS WAS A DRUG BABY AND AT 4 IS MORE LIKE A 2 YEAR OLD, BUT HAS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SMILE AND LOVES HIS TRUCKS. HE ALSO ASKED FOR A BIBLE. THOSE BOYS WILL HAVE TO MOVE THIS MONTH IF MOM DOES NOT SHOW UP, AM PRAYING FOR THEM. AND SO IT GOES ONE DAY AT A TIME SWEET JESUS. WHO LOVED US WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS.
I think of Jesus promising to ‘remove one stone from off the other’ then the fulfillment in 70ad by the roman forces. But man in his quest for power has to keep building new temples with their names on them.
We have justified the cafe-building work and the new carpet as preparation for the revival that is coming.
New visitors to our church apparently notice these things and decide whether to make it their ‘spiritual home’ based on the decor.
Thousands of dollars are being spent. yet there is no outreach (nor ‘in-reach’).
WIll the carpet and the coffee machine pack the church to the rafters?
I’ll let you know….
First of all people need to get over their addiction to “going to church” thinking that is what is going to save them. The Word says, “Work out your own salvation.” It doesn’t say, let an organization and its leaders work out your salvation. Even this author submitted the prophecy to his “pastor” being a good little follower. We are Kings and Priests…a royal generation. The church is not that place you go to on Sunday and the preacher no more annointed than you. It is not up to organized relgion to start acting like the Bride of Christ. It is up to YOU. I know it is a hard addiction to get over but, c’mon people…it’s time.
In answer to the original post….I believe this is coming BEFORE Christ’s return and even at the door. And this is only one of many issues that needs to be repented from.
Tonight their will be a meteor shower that will be a sign from the heavens pointing to the release of the true church and her light that will interupt the darkness that has fallen upon our world even through the usurper. A great and holy separation is coming from God that will divide households, institutions, and even nations. But it is necessary for the unity of the brethren and the perfect oneness with our God. Let His bride agree with the Spirit that this is so, for we are perishing without His knowledge and true vision and must once again function as the Body of Christ attached to the true Head to survive the coming days of tribulation.
http://www.songforthebride.com
If you are a part of His bride, please accept the gift of prophetic song that is waiting for you at this website. Bless you!
Ruth,
Your life greatly moves me. The Lord is in all the things you see and acts you do. I have been blessed to have known others like you, a true sister, taking the little this life has given you and acknowledging The Lord before men. May God bless you and keep you. Your reward will be great. If I were to allow envy to have any part of me, it would be for your heart.
I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT THE REASON I SHARED WHAT I DID ABOUT THE BUILDING I LIVE IN IS THAT YES WE COULD HAVE DONE MUCH MORE WITH THE MONEY THAT BELONGS TO YESHSUA THAN BUILD GREAT CHATHEDRALS, AND ALL OF THE OTHER GARBAGE THAT OUR MONEY WAS SPENT ON IN THE NAME OF CHRIST. MANY OF THESE WHO LIVE IN THIS BUILDING WERE REJECTED BY THE ORGANIZED CHRUCH , BECAUSE THEY DID NOT FIT THE BILL, OR EITHER THERE PROBLEMS AND OPPRESSION WHERE MORE THAN THE SO-CALLED CHRUCH COULD HANDLE. LET US ALL REPENT FOR GIVING THESE FALSE APOSTLES MONEY.
For Ruth Farley: What a beautiful testimony!! Yes, the mainstream churches may be failing in their mission, but individuals like you are doing things like was done in the 1st century congregations. My husband and belonged to a very large church years ago. They began collecting money for what we thought would be used for outreach. We later learned that it was used to buy up surrounding property, and a new sanctuary was to be built with Italian tiled floors and an elevator. It wound up costing about $16 million dollars to do all they had decided to do! But the people didn’t flock to the new sanctuary, and tithes actually dropped. The bank nearly got the church. What a sad commentary about today’s churches. My Daddy used to call big churches “Man’s monument to man.” There were no “churches” in the first few centuries after Messiah arose. Believers met house to house. I believe that church buildings are a pure waste of the Father’s money, money that should be being used to help those around us. That is what would bring them into His Kingdom. Buildings do not impress, helping hands impress. I pray, Ruth, that you will be able to continue the work the Father has called you to do, that He will bless you with the resources and help that I’m sure you need. Have you ever read about the life of George Mueller? He ran a orphanage and many times they had no food for a meal. They would set the tables as if they did have food, sit down and thank the Father for what He was about to provide, and there would be a knock on the door, and someone would be there with bags of food for them. His life and work for the Father is inspirational, just like your story. Bless you, sister!
I love reading the replies to this article. I’m kind of new in that my eyes recently opened as to the situation with The Church (institution). I was 20 years in a willowcreek member non- denom modern church those vision was to be a megachurch. I was as JByron said, caught up in the system, not realizing what it was : a corporate business with the goal of “numbers” and popularity as success. I have many alarming stories. We left when we realized they were committed to success via, compromise, and when we heard a disturbing false gospel which was purchased from Willowcreek.
a.
We went to a church after that for 5 years that seemed the opposite: traditional. There we found legalism, false teaching, formalism, traditions, lack of love for the hurting saints.
In both cases conformity was expected. In both cases it was all about serving “IT”. In both cases we were confused and distressed.
We have been out since Jan’10.
I recently went to a “Church” building for a “worship” event. It was entertainment, not worship. I was astounded at the brand new multimillion dollar facilities- so rich and beautiful… cafe, gym, playground, teen center, an enormous campus.
It felt creepy to be there. Such wealth, spent on themselves.
Where is the true gospel outreach? It is only “church growth” that is promoted. Hello Fuller!! The Church is infiltrated and hijacked with these movements. It can’t be fixed. True believers (sheep, the Bride) will have to deal with this reality. I started a new blog to chronicle my journey thru these things: Revive me O Lord. wordpress. com
God bless you, brethren
love, Loretta
Reading through the comments I can now see that this is a global trend but thank God for the remnant. My British boss gave me reasons why he stopped going to church and why the church in UK is losing membership in thousands. Brother Stephen’s revelation and the comments from Vhowell to Diana only goes to strenghten His position. Let us run our individual races and meet like the apostles in homes to strenghten each other devoid of all these denominational paraphernalia.
This message and warning from the Lord has been well established, yet His people continually turn a deaf ear, even claiming that OT precepts just don’t apply to the NT church. We live in a “state of grace”, n’est pas? Why do modern Christians believe God’s character has changed? Because they havent been taught otherwise. Besides, if they believed it was important to repent, turn to God and proclaim the Kingdom, the churches would be EMPTY! O, Lord, have MERCY on our souls!
Philip, Referring to your article about the misuse of funds and the sometimes ostentatious things they spend money on, so many people when they need finances, always stand on Philippians 4:19, “and my God shall supply all you needs……” But what they don’t do is read all the verses before it in Chapter 4. The church at Philipi was the poorest church of all those in Paul’s jurisdiction. Yet they continually gave, SACRIFICIALLY, to Paul’s ministry. It so blessed Paul, that he was inspired to write that particular verse. How many of us give to so many ministries, especially ones we see on TV, yet don’t really know where those funds are going or are being used for. We have to learn to give, even when it hurts, by “not allowing the left hand to know what the right hand is doing.” It’s the things we do in secret and things we do sacrificially that really please the Lord, in my opinion. Good article. Thank you for your courage and obedience.
God gave me a dream once where I crashed my car into the front door of a church, then got out of the wreck and walked inside. The people in the foyer gave me a few funny looks, which isn’t that surprising really.
There was a guy up the front of the church preaching and hyping and people sitting in the pews and it looked a lot like the average church. There was another little room off to one side and I could feel the presence of God there, so I went in there.
There was another church service starting up and people were taking their seats. You could feel the difference the second that you walked in the door. The presence of God was everywhere, and it was peaceful. The main difference was that there was preaching in one type of church and the presence of God in the other.
There was a woman on the stage that was getting ready to preach and I sat down. I felt The Holy Spirit touch my heart and show me how He felt about violence and He broke my heart and I started crying and repenting.
God was showing me that there are two types of churches. One looks like a church complete with preaching but there is no presence of God. The other one has the presence of God, the ministry of The Spirit and fellowship with God and each other and preaching.
There are only two types of churchs, and one of them you do not need. No amount of preaching will reach someones heart like the ministry of The Holy Spirit.
It just occured to me after I had finished my post. The jokes about the new coffee machine and the new carpet. That was the type of church I crashed my car into in the dream!
There are two types of church, and God only goes to one of them. I’m not going to the other one either. I have seen what the real one looks like.
great article, and i think all upbuilding comments afterwards!
going a bit along the line of Jerry’s last comment here, how do you feel about tithing to a church that you see spends the money wrong/poorly?
would it be ok, since God judges my pastors and i’m just being obidient giving to my leaders? what’s your imminent reaction..
A few years ago I belonged to a church in Australia with a congregation of about 100. God was starting to show me many things going on there that had me to start distancing myself from them. The last straw was their decision to spend $40,000 on an air conditioner when insulating the ceiling and installing fans would have cost about $5000 and would have made the temperature JUST as tolerable. Their theory was that the more comfortable the surroundings, the more seekers would want to come and hear the gospel. I left the day all the windows and doors were shut to the outside community.
It wasn’t long after that God gave me a vision…….
I was watching the Titanic standing on her nose with the stern high in the air, from about 200yards away, just shortly before she was to slip to the bottom. People were jumping from off the ship into the water, and were being picked up by the life-boats. Suddenly I was standing on the steeply sloping deck, looking down, watching people jumping for their lives. Behind me I could hear the cries of those trapped within the hull of the ship!
Then the LORD spoke to me, “This ship is the modern church. You have been called out of her. Those who are jumping are jumping because they know their lives are at stake, and will be saved just before the ship goes down.”
I listened to the desperate cries of those I could hear crying out for help. I said, “LORD who are those?”
He said, “They are the sick, the wounded, the blind, the lost, those who are unable in their own strength to get free from the sinking ship. Are you willing to go in and bring them out so their lives can be saved? If you do, you are going into great danger, for she is about to go down. However, if you trust in Me, I will protect and keep you.”
Overwhelmed by the desperation in the cries for help, I said, “LORD, I will go.” And I did, and have been ever since, warning people not to touch the unclean thing, but to come out from her and to be separate, as the LORD told me. (2 Cor.6:17)
Jesus said that HE would build His church, not man. We, His disciples, are His dwelling place – temples of the Holy Spirit. He does not dwell in temples made with hands. Are you a part of the institutional church? Come out from her and do not be a part of her fornications! If you are a part of this assembly here – you are a part of the body of Christ. You have no need to attend bricks and mortar, but rather to seek Him alone. You have need of no one to teach you, for you have One who is your Teacher! Father is seeking those who will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. He calls who He will. Are you called? Seek HIM!
Amen, and I say with trembling, by the time the Lord is finished judging the harlot church “there will not be one stone left on top of another”…but I wonder what does this mean though? When the physical temple was destroyed, it meant the END OF BLOOD SACRIFICE – however, a form of religious Judaism continued, although the nation of Israel was dispersed and ceased to be a national entity. How does that translate to the church in our time? I believe the church is being judged already – the unprecedented exposure of so many prominent church leaders’ sins or worldliness, with no doubt more to come. But I’ve noticed this doesn’t necessarily mean the end of their ministries completely (at least so far that I have seen), just as Judaism didn’t end completely. But the end of blood sacrifice as concerns the church, would that mean Jesus’ blood no longer avails for them, that this judgment/exposure of the harlot church is the sign He is spewing her out of His mouth?
Hbr 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
Hbr 10:27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Hbr 10:28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Hbr 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Good word Sarah, I agree.
Revelation 3:14-19
“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. ***Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— *** I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.”
The words of our Lord to this Laodicean church rings as true today as they did two thousand years ago, may we all listen and HEED His words.
May I ask our little community to stop for just a second.
Many I believe are forgetting a few things. Find me the most pious Roman Catholic church, you will find someone whom Our Lord is very pleased with. Go to the most opulent fancy mega-church, and chances are in the back row is a poor little widow who gives her mite (perhaps mistakenly), and is a great prayer warrior, perhaps greater than any readers here.
Let’s not condemn the entire congregation for being unreached with the reasoning that may change where they worship.
Some of the comments (probably unintentionally) seem to use the same kind of judgement that Our Lord used in the Book of Revelations. Please note, Our Lord said “some of you” a lot.
The removal of their effectiveness as signified by the potential removal of their candle (a symbol of not being a light they were intended to be), He was speaking, I believe of the Leadership.
Let us remember, God holds us individually responsible, thus the phrase “some of you”.
Perhaps calling to holiness may attract more than calling people out.
A call to repentence requires understanding, which always begins with God Loves each of you/us enough to lay down the life of His Son.
Turn or burn is just as true as God Love you! Let us lead with what is good, Just as Our Lord did in the Book of Revelations.
On Judgement day “WE” will be judged by what was given to us, and how we responded.
My friends, do not be offended by my challange. But there is a spiritual stronghold in the Administration of our churches, what you say is true. And some churches are utterly corrupt.
But the evil denial of the widow who needed medicine for her child and was turned away, that happened in a church loaded with many besides myself, who see the evil and seek to change it, before we condemn all in attendance.
To address the specific prophecy which is true, Jesus shared the parable of the “wheat and tares” in Matthew 13, explaining the “tares” in vss. 36-43. Wheat are true believers. Tares have been variously explailned as unbelievers, pagans, etc., but this cannot be. “Tares” are false believers, “Professing” believers, Christian wannabe’s who “think” they’re on their way to heaven, but aren’t.
Wheat and Tares
200 Million American Christians To Die Soon
Ron White
April 20, 2010
Much has been written about biblical subjects that have made no sense to me, or that seem incomplete, or are just flat wrong in some cases.
When such subjects seem to “rankle” in my spirit, I know there is more to the subject than we’ve been taught or led to believe.
The subject of “wheat and tares” is one such subject that has been taught with false conclusions beyond rational thinking. Recently, this subject became the subject of fasting and prayer, and the following are answers received.
Most readers of Scripture know about Jesus’ parable teachings concerning the “wheat and tares”. (I’ll refrain from regurgitating all the various beliefs and false applications out there, in order to preclude confusion.)
Let’s quote Matthew 13:30 regarding “tares” that will be pulled from the fields before the “wheat” is harvested. Tares will be burned.
First, Jesus gave the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:24-30, and concluded in verse 30, “Let the wheat (true believers) grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, ‘First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles and burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”
Then Jesus explained the parable in 13:36-43: He who sows good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world; the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one (whom we have been taught to think or believe these are non-believers, pagans, infidels). The enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
This refers to end times, last days, before the rapture and the rapture itself. It also requires several paragraphs to explain. I’ve never heard or read anyone who explained these verses in lucid, accurate ways.
“Wheat” are true believers. “Tares” are wheat lookalikes, folks who “claim” to be believers, but aren’t. Tares will be plucked from the earth BEFORE THE RAPTURE and thrown into hell. Burned.
Let’s address a seemingly preposterous concept that the majority in Christendom haven’t thought through, don’t teach, and make significantly gross errors in application of this parable and who the “tares” are. The basic question is, who are the “tares?” What groups of people make up “tares” who will be plucked up, gathered, and thrown into hell to burn before the resurrection-rapture?
“Tares” are NOT pagans as we’ve been led to believe — they’re “professing” Christians who are actually “sons of the wicked one”!
Now dispensationalists and pre-tribulation rapture believers claim this blows a post-trib rapture view out of the water, because this would leave nobody on earth to go thru the tribulation.
What such short-sighted people don’t recognize by this ill-conceived logic is, if “tares” are gathered off the face of the earth and thrown into the lake of fire before the pre-tribulation rapture, and the rapture happens before the tribulation, then THEIR OWN logic precludes anyone from being on planet earth to go thru the tribulation. (Dispensationalists should re-read this statement.)
Zechariah 13:7-9 explains this, regardless of one’s view of timing of the Rapture. Again, to reiterate, “wheat” are true believers; “tares” are wheat lookalikes, Christians in name only, not just cults or pagans, but many Christian denominations. Wheat lookalikes; church people who are CINO (Christians In Name Only). Zechariah 13 definitely describes end times and tribulation period in every detail to include the rapture.
“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who is my companion,” says the Lord of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered. Then I will turn my hand against the little ones (tares are “cheat” or small blades that look like wheat in a wheat field; plus the seeds are much smaller than a grain of wheat, thus “little ones.”) And it shall come to pass in all the land,” says the Lord, “that two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left in it; I will bring the one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested (which is the purpose of the tribulation period events). Then (after Jesus’ return to earth) they will call on my name, and I will answer them; I will say, ‘This is my people,’ and each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’” (Zechariah 13:7-9)
To apply explanations to this Zechariah quote: “Strike the shepherd” likely refers to arresting church pastors and closing churches during the tribulation period (which is one of several reasons the word “church” is not mentioned after Rev. 3 thru chapter 22). When the “shepherds” are “struck” then “the sheep will be scattered,” this leaves us with underground churches and small home fellowship meetings, if we gather to worship. “Then I will turn my hand against the little ones” is likely a reference to those who aren’t true believers, but pretenders, wheat lookalikes, tares, thus “little ones.” (The grain of tares or “cheat” is about 1/10th the size of a grain of wheat, thus “little ones.”) Then the Lord says, “two-thirds in the land shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left in it; I will bring the one-third through the fire (through the tribulation period), will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested” (which is the purpose of the tribulation period by Jesus’ and John’s explanatory statements).
Now, let’s go back to the very beginning of verse 7: Note God commands a “sword” to “awake” and this sword is “against my shepherd, against the man who is my companion.” Is this not a sword against pastors, shepherds, priests, who claim to be God’s “companion”? Are these shepherds not professing Christians or “tares” as wheat lookalikes? (Pagans are not God’s companion.) With this understanding, we can expect pastors, priests, shepherds to die first!
After the pastors, priests, shepherds die first, then all the 2/3 population of “professing” believers in Christ (wheat lookalikes) are also scattered, plucked up, gathered, thrown into the lake of fire before the resurrection-rapture! (In actuality, this event happens before the near midpoint of the tribulation, because the remaining one-third is taken through the tribulation to be tested and tried, after the two-thirds are plucked up and thrown into the lake of fire.)
If a person truly loves souls; if a person cares more about souls in the kingdom than one cares about one’s own life (which I do), then this new revelation causes me to literally be screaming at the top of my lungs on the roof of every housetop in the nation! (Sheep, please pray for your shepherd leaders! Most are about to die!)
TWO-THIRDS OF “PROFESSING” CHRISTIANS ARE ABOUT TO DIE AND BE CAST INTO HELL! Before the midpoint of the tribulation period, a full 42-plus months before the resurrection- Rapture! Shepherds will die first!
One-third of today’s professing Christians will be left on earth to be taken through the tribulation to be tested, tried as gold and silver are refined — a “refiner’s fire” to get rid of spots, wrinkles, blemishes, so that the Groom Jesus Christ returns for His bride who is without spot or wrinkle!
The blame for all these “tares” rests with every believer in Christ, especially those of us who have been called into ministry, especially shepherds! Recall those who are called to be teachers will be held to a higher account or stricter judgment (James 3:1). Sick and uncaring shepherds are the cause of America’s downfall and for God’s judgment coming on America! I share part of the blame! Especially since I didn’t serve the Lord for about 20 years and while serving in the military instead of responding to pastoral ministry calling! I’m to blame as much as anyone! I’m not simply pointing fingers at others!
Therefore, the righteous indignation I’m having today is about ten-fold stronger against supposed shepherds who are teaching and preaching warm fuzzies, tickling ear sermons, while the sheep are being led to slaughter! The blind leading the blind! This includes most every church and most every church pastor you and I have ever known! In every denomination! Probably fewer than one percent of shepherds are teaching the whole truth and nothing but the truth! Very few are “rightly dividing” the word of truth, regardless of claims to the contrary!
Now, if you knew that 2/3 of today’s professing Christians are about to die and be cast into hell before the rapture and before the midpoint of the tribulation period (before the last 42 months), what would you do, what would you say, how would you be saying it?
If you knew that 2/3 of today’s pastors/leaders/shepherds on the globe are about to die before 2/3 of Christian sheep die, would you be acting, teaching, preaching like everything is just fine, simply ready to be snatched off the earth in a pre-tribulation rapture?
Would you not be trying to snatch anyone and everyone possible from the fire to teach and share truth with them? Wouldn’t you be attempting to do everything in your power to prevent their being cast into hell? Sure you would! Most people who love souls want to do everything in their power to prevent as many as possible from being cast into hell!
We must ask ourselves and answer truthfully: Do we really love the sheep, or don’t we? Are we only “playing” church, or what is our reason for conducting church services?
When shepherds don’t care any more for the sheep than such actions as these whom I know personally, is it any wonder that so many “tares” are on their way to hell and few seem to give a hoot? Many of these “tares” are people who attend church! Professing Christians! Christian lookalikes! “Tares” are “wheat lookalikes” who “profess” to be and “believe” they are true Christians, but are mere wannabes.
As sad as the thought might be, most of today’s Christians (shepherds included) look, act, talk, dress, and speak so much like the world, that one might get the impression that it’s the “tares” whom God is going to gather into his barn! Like shepherd, like sheep.
(I know one pastor who jokes and laughs about pastors’ cuss words! I know a pastor who has been committing adultery with women not his wife for decades, and he believes that all he has to do is ask God for forgiveness after every female partner – he doesn’t even know the meaning of repentance, that repentance means “to turn away from, to feel so sorry for sin that one doesn’t repeat the same sin, to turn a different direction.” That pastor believes and teaches that mere asking for forgiveness is repentance, and the two words have one and the same meaning! Such willful blindness!)
That’s my dilemma and heart break! Does anyone care? Where are the true shepherds? Hell is real. Hell is an evil place. Hell is eternal. Eternal death, agony beyond belief that never ends. But what shepherd gives a hoot? How many sermons have been taught about hell and what hell is going to be like? What shepherd (and likewise sheep) doesn’t live like a careless laughing hyena (or angry bear) six days of the week and put on his/her smiley face on Sunday for the sake of appearances? Do they not know that God knows and sees? Apparently, they must evidently think that if people don’t know, then God doesn’t know. Deception. Self-deception. It’s God who sends strong delusion that they believe the lie, because they did not love the truth!
Several things I know include the fact that I can’t make choices for anyone else. I can’t be someone else’s Holy Spirit to bring conviction. I can only warn and blow the trumpet of warnings. I can explain “why” some things are false that are being fed to sheep across the country in churches every Sunday. Whether anyone receives or rejects the message is between the other person and God. My job, my responsibility, my calling as a watchman is to warn others of things on our horizon, as well as address ongoing secular events that impact all of us.
Jesus presented His message. Jesus never forced anyone to believe. Jesus warned. Jesus ridiculed. Jesus met head on and chastised his critics and detractors. Jesus had an answer to every critic and every scoffer who tried to trip him up or entrap him. Should we do any less?
If people knew what we’re facing — even those who attend church and believe in Jesus Christ — if they only knew the things we’re facing, they would likely be scared out of their wits and excited and anxious as they could possibly be. Our churches and families going to hell in a hand basket don’t seem to matter to the majority in Christendom today. That we have lost our once Christian nation to pagans and atheists attests to the lack of power and influence of the church at large.
Examples of how weak today’s church is includes passage of Obamacare, confiscating our grandchildren’s income for the next couple of centuries, confiscation of the auto and banking industries and nationalizing these like Communist nations do, and our elected national officials being more corrupt and destructive to our nation, our Constitution, our rights like nobody in history — yet we haven’t seen anything yet, compared to that which we’re facing. Most shepherds don’t even know what Marxism is! Some even voted for Obama and still support him, even after his proving and avowing his being a Muslim and his Marxist-socialist-Communist agendas!
So far, these are mere “birth pangs” and the mere “beginnings” of sorrows that haven’t yet included nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom, famines, pestilences, great earthquakes (only three or four recently), fearful sights in the skies, believers hated by all nations, many offended, many betraying one another, many hating one another on a grand scale — we’re at the very “beginning” of the beginnings of these events Jesus warned us about!
But who is warning anyone? Don’t most of the people you and I know keep telling people to be prepared for the pre-tribulation rapture that ain’t gonna happen? Don’t most of the people you and I know think they’re going to “escape” all these troubles and tribulation? Do they even believe Jesus Christ or do they believe Jesus taught us truth? Did Jesus get dementia or Alzheimer’s in not teaching on the blessed hope of believers by way of a pre-tribulation rapture? They’re in for a rude awakening, but they will stubbornly refuse to believe truth, even under their noses in their own Bibles — they’d prefer to believe in false man-made doctrines than to believe Scripture and Jesus’ own teachings about end times!
I’m most appreciative of those of you who receive such articles and teachings as meat, not mere milk, and for your appreciation of the seriousness of the times in which we live. I’m not abandoning or ceasing to share truths, but I think I’m being led in a different direction as a primary thrust and fulfillment of my calling. Truthfully, I encounter more rebelliousness and stubbornness among churched people than in secular audiences, which speaks volumes. Thankfully, there are a few teachable people out there who appreciate hard truths and are willing to accept teachings beyond that which they’ve been taught or currently believe; unfortunately, these are the rare exceptions in today’s times.
Blessings to one and all. May the Comforter, the Holy Spirit continue to teach us all truth and to receive and understand our Lord’s teachings as He intended!
No accurate data is available to know the number of “professing” Christians in any nation or on the globe. One recent statement on a major network said that an estimated 75% of Americans claim Christianity in some form. If this is true, and if we know that the population of the U.S. is about 300 million to 320 million people, let’s apply the above understandings of Zechariah to Jesus’ “wheat and tares” parable.
Recall that Zechariah says 2/3 of the “tares” will be plucked up and die, burned in hell. 75% of 320 million is about 240 million “professing” Christians. 2/3 of 240 million is about 160 million professing Christians who die as “tares” in the USA alone! BEFORE THE MIDPOINT OF THE TRIBULATION, and 42 MONTHS BEFORE THE RAPTURE-RESURRECTION!
So, what this means is, we can expect that before the midpoint of the tribulation, that is, before the last 42 months of the great “tribulation” Jesus warned us about in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21….
An approximate 160 million professing Christians will die in a very few short years! IN AMERICA!
One-third of professing Christians will be taken thru the refiner’s fire of tribulation! One-third of 320 million is about 107 million professing Christians! These go through the tribulation to be tested and tried in the refiner’s fire to remove dross, spots, wrinkles, so the Groom Jesus Christ returns for a bride (the church) that is without spot or wrinkle!
A note to scoffers or nitpickers in denial that the “strike the shepherd” only applies to leaders and doesn’t apply to sheep: Please don’t ignore Jesus’ clear teaching about “tares” in Matthew 13:30 – Jesus said “tares” would be plucked up and burned, which includes both shepherds and sheep whose hearts are not right with God!
What Christian denomination in America today doesn’t believe that “my” church has our gospel all correct and accurate — it’s all those “other folks” out there who are “wrong” — but “not me; not my church; nosiree! We’ve got it all correct and down pat!” All those Catholics, all those Mormons, all those different Protestants, all those cults out there are the ‘tares’! “Me and my church” have it all correct and accurate! All one has to do is point fingers at all those Catholic priests who molest little boys, the Ted Haggards who engage in homosexuality, the Jimmy Swaggarts, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakers, and all those “tares” out there — THEY are the true tares, certainly not me! Not my church! Not my denomination!”
BAH HUMBUG! Not one Christian denomination in America has everything all accurate or all correct! NOT ONE! Every church and every denomination in America has its “tares” and wheat lookalikes! Many “tares” include the shepherds themselves! (Even if one adds up all the molesters, homosexuals and others one might identify as obvious tares, their total is probably no more than a few thousand, certainly not millions.)
What pastor’s children and grandchildren are serving the Lord with a whole heart? What family and relatives are serving the Lord and love the Lord our God with all our heart, minds, souls, strength (body, soul, spirit)? Neighbors? Family? One’s own church? Business employees? Coworkers?
If such things make one nervous, they should! Playing church doesn’t cut the mustard! Tickling ear sermons, telling touching or funny stories, and telling sheep what they want to hear is not much different than watching nightly news on TV from an eternal destination view. What professing Christian doesn’t make professional sports, especially football or baseball, an idol on Sunday’s and Monday nights and get more excited about who wins or loses than excitement about Jesus Christ and His work among us? How many professing Christians don’t fight over control of the TV remote or argue about watching “my” favorite programs? What person is not more concerned about this dress or suit or tie or makeup or hair-do or manicure or pedicure than they are concerned about souls in the kingdom? Isn’t money and numbers the primary concerns of most every shepherd in the nation?
(I come from a family of pastors, so these things aren’t mere figments of imagination. I know of possibly one of three, a one-third figure, who “might” be among the true “wheat” to go thru the refiner’s fire; I know a two-thirds who have every chance of being tares who will burn — this is not being judgmental — it’s based on adultery, lies, fraud, attempted murder and other absolutes routinely practiced by the two-thirds without repentance or turning away from such routine practices. The two-thirds don’t even know the definition of the word repentance!)
Of all the people and churches one can name in America, how can one possibly be honest with self, and count those who might feasibly account for 160 million people? 160 million Americans who are going to burn eternally, and 160 million people whom few care about! Tares who consist of spouses, children, grandchildren, neighbors, friends, poker friends, bridge groups, golf buddies… 160 million people in America where we have more churches, more pastors, more priests, more Bibles, more Christian book stores, more Christian TV and televangelists, and more professing Christians than any other nation on the globe or in the history of mankind!
But about 160 million of them are about to be gathered as “tares” and cast into hell to be burned — eternally! Who truly gives a hoot!?
These 160 million will die and be cast into hell, regardless of one’s belief in the timing of the so-called Rapture!
These are citizens of America alone and don’t account for the hundreds of millions living in other nations! When one considers all the practicing Christians in foreign countries, such as in underground churches in China and elsewhere, where they are truly committed to the Lord and live righteous holy lives, their numbers may be higher numbers of the one-third taken through the tribulation, resulting in higher numbers of “tares” in the USA! This could feasibly mean that far more than 160 million Americans are “tares” who will be plucked up and thrown into the fire to burn before the midpoint of the tribulation period!
When those professing Christians begin to die, not by merely a dozen here and there, but by the tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands, then we can know for sure that the timing of Jesus’ warnings are near, at the door!
(All those tares out there who claim that Jesus’ return could be today, tonight, or any day soon, don’t have a clue! Nor do they believe plainly written Scripture for what it says, especially Jesus’ own teachings in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 that any reader with an eighth-grade reading comprehension can understand! I know this, because I’ve taken eighth-graders thru these verses and asked them what they just read! Lots of theologians and seminarians out there are probably tares who teach falsehoods and lies contradictory to Jesus’ own teachings! Lots of people respect and admire an awful lot of tares out there! Most are so deluded as to think that as long as lots of money is coming in and as long as people approve of me, then that is a sign of God’s approval of me and my ministry! Plus, we dispensationalists and pre-trib believers are in the majority! Bah humbug! When we think about it, the “majority” is also the two-thirds who burn.)
We recall from 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 that the “restrainer that restrains lawlessness” will be removed before the day of the Lord. Folks, when the restrainer is removed, whatever little sin or blemish there might be in one’s life, that “little” sin or blemish will explode exponentially, so that one will not be able to NOT sin! That little white lie, practice of anger, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, or pride of life will balloon into such magnanimous proportions that one won’t recognize self and won’t be able to believe self or spouse or children could possibly “think” such things, much less, “do” them!
The time to get rid of any little or big sin is today! NOW! When the restrainer that restrains lawlessness is removed, nobody will be able to help themselves or refrain or stop sinning, no matter what they may try to do! Please, please, turn from any little or big sin and truly repent of anything and everything you know is not right! Please!
One last thought regarding scriptural descriptions of “chaff” versus “tares”.
Winnowing wheat or separating “chaff” from wheat is a different process than separating “tares” from wheat. “Chaff” consists of thin coverings of wheat grain that is removed during the harvest process. Every grain of wheat is “winnowed” from its “chaff” before it is put in grain storage “elevators” or “barns.” This is also the description of “wheat” that is taken through the tribulation period to get rid of “chaff” from the grain; this is also the same process Jesus describes as taking the “wheat” through the tribulation process to get rid of dross by purification, a purification fire, to get rid of spots, wrinkles (from garments), to get rid of dross or chaff (from our hearts and minds), so that Jesus returns for a “bride” without any of these impurities.
Separating “chaff” from wheat involves repentance, belief in Christ, separation, justification, making one’s heart right with God, becoming separate from the world and living a life of righteousness.
For almost 2000 years, separating “chaff” from the wheat has been ongoing.
Plucking “tares” from the wheat fields involves deaths and burning in hell and is yet future; but this “tares” separation has already begun. Watch as more and more shepherds die (first), then many sheep.
Perhaps then more will believe Jesus spoke truth!
With grief, many tears, indescribable agony of heart — May God have mercy!
It’s a separate teaching, but directly related to the above deaths and “timing” of the 160 million deaths of professing Christians, Revelation 6 describes the first “six seals”. The first four seals involve “horsemen” as euphemistic descriptions of people and events that bring widespread death.
The reason this subject is probably directly related to the above millions of deaths of professing Christians is that the “timing” of both are near simultaneous, or during the same period of time.
The first (white horseman) has a bow (weapon) and a crown (power, authority) to go out conquering (conduct warfare) and to conquer. This could easily apply to such a man as Osama bin Laden. Numbers of deaths are not stated in Scripture. Muslims’ #1 enemy is Christians, followed by Jews. (America is the “great satan” and Israel the “little satan” by Muslim reckoning. Folks with Judeo-Christian values/beliefs are the prime targets of most everyone in the world today!)
The second (red horseman) will go out to take peace from the earth and cause people to kill each other; he will also be given a great sword (weapon). This could easily apply to al Qaeda terrorists. Numbers of deaths are not stated.
The third (black horseman) will have a pair of scales (measuring device) and will cause extreme widespread inflation of money (make money virtually worthless with little buying power), so that a loaf of bread might cost a day’s wage for minimum wage workers.
The fourth (pale horseman) will be given power over one-fourth of the earth to kill with sword (military weaponry), hunger (starvation), plagues, and wild beasts. Today’s global population is approximately 6.7 billion people. 1/4 of the earth’s population equals about 1.68 billion people (spelled with a “b”).
Because these widespread deaths of both professing Christians and general population at large will happen simultaneously or in the same general time frame as tares, we can’t simply sit back and watch or wait for Christians only to die.
The 160 million American professing Christian “tares” will likely die at the same time as (or inclusive of) the 1.68 billion deaths worldwide!
Will today’s professing Christian “tares” then believe Jesus taught truth?
Not many, because Jesus also predicted what professing Christians would be saying after all these deaths that happen before the midpoint of the tribulation.
After Jesus’ description of the near midpoint of the tribulation (Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14), Jesus said specifically that false prophets and false christs would arise to deceive the elect (believers and shepherd leaders), claiming sightings of Jesus already back on earth, in the field, in the upper room, over here, over there. Jesus specifically said, “Do not believe them!”
Please don’t attempt to confuse things here – these folks claiming sightings of Jesus won’t be atheists or pagans who don’t even believe in Jesus – these folks will be “professing” Christians! Tares! Folks who aren’t preaching or teaching the whole truth today! Pagans never look for or report sightings of Jesus!
Jesus also stated an interesting description of the “tares” who attempt to further deceive believers in Christ: “Where the carcass (dead) is, the eagles (vultures) will be gathered.”
Jesus’ description of dead “tares” and vultures gathering around the dead would aptly describe all of the above…
-160 million American professing Christian “tares” who will die,
-hundreds of millions of professing Christian “tares” around the world who die,
-plus (or included among) 1.68 billion deaths of non-believers around the world by the first four “horsemen”!
Many professing Christians and conservatives are upset at our government leaders confiscating our wealth, turning our once democratic republic into a Marxist-socialist-Communist government, and totally ignoring our Constitution and abiding by their oaths. Millions of Americans are upset at such activities and are joining the Tea Party groups of protesters.
Dearly beloved, can we not see that such actions to destroy America and our luxurious way of life are simply the beginnings of sorrows, the beginnings of birth pangs, and are actually “warnings” of things to come?
Why aren’t our spiritual leaders and shepherds understanding these warnings for what they are?
Why aren’t our spiritual leaders warning the sheep about these very things Jesus warned us were coming?
How many shepherds are making claims from their pulpits that this little “political” storm in Washington will pass and things will get better and revival is coming? We’ll just vote ‘em out next November and everything will return to normal! Yeh, right!
Are such leader-shepherds not deceiving their own sheep whom they claim to love?
Does Jesus’ teaching about sheep being led to the slaughter not mean anything to supposed leader-shepherds?
What cute little humor or tickling ear sermon has been prepared for next Sunday? When was the sermon prepared, during TV commercials?
Politics and Christianity have nothing to do with each other, right? “Render unto Caesar” means to leave politics to others, right?
“My people perish (die) for lack of knowledge” indicates that people die due to ignorance. Folks, ignorance of Scripture will not be an acceptable excuse at the judgment seat of Christ! Ignorance about warnings we’re receiving daily will not bode well for “tares” in coming times.
Seek the Lord “while” he may be found means TODAY!
Three-thirds of all professing Christians should be spending much more time on our knees in prayer, repentance, forgiveness, and anguish of heart before the Lord!
All of us!
__________
Added Notes: Dispensationalists, those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine, claim “tares” consist of Jews only! BAH HUMBUG! Nowhere in the whole of Scripture is this supportable or feasible! Further, nowhere in the whole of Scripture is this insinuated, stated, or concluded in any manner. Such a false conclusion is only in the fabricated opinion of humans to attempt to make their other false doctrines somehow work or seem feasible. All one has to do is to read Scripture for one’s self. Readers will see that such an application or notion that Matthew 13:30 “tares” or the Zechariah 13:7-9 quotes apply to Jews only is a mere figment of imagination.
For the sake of consideration of such logic, if one takes all the whole of Scriptures regarding last days and the so-called Rapture doctrine, then the “Rapture” would only apply to Jews also! One can’t have it both ways, to make one end times Scripture apply to Jews only, and pick and choose which Scripture applies to me/myself/I and my church! Dispensationalists fabricate and dream up all kinds of human opinions and conclusions not stated in Scripture and teach it as if it were truth! Tares! Every time Jesus spoke to his disciples and used the personal pronoun “you,” Jesus was referring to New Testament believers in Christ! NOT pagans! NOT Jews alone!
Further, let’s examine Revelation 20:8 statements, to further prove that “tares” are not pagan infidels as taught by dispensationalist pre-tribulation rapture folks.
“Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle whose number is as the sand of the sea.” (Underlining for emphasis)
Three points regarding this quote of Rev. 20 verses 7 & 8. Dispensationalists believe a Gog-Magog war is soon to happen before the tribulation period, then they begin to quote in-depth explanations of the Gog-Magog war from Ezekiel 38, 39. Note very carefully, Revelation 20:7, 8 says very specifically this “Gog-Magog” war happens after the thousand-year Millennium! Not before the tribulation! This is the ONLY statement in the whole of the entire Bible where a Gog-Magog war is stated by “timing” of that war. There is no such thing as a Gog-Magog war before the tribulation period, as dispensationalists teach!
Second, if “tares” are pagan non-believers who are gathered from the earth before the supposed pre-tribulation rapture event, how can there possibly be anyone left on earth to go thru the tribulation? If this were true, the earth would be void of humans during the tribulation period! Why would God have the events of Revelation written, if nobody will be on earth to go thru such events? Does the reader recognize the absolute prevarications and fabrications of such false thinking, false applications and false doctrines?
Third, if “tares” are pagan non-believers who are gathered from the earth and burned in hell fire (as dispensationalists falsely believe), how can there be so many folks stated here in Revelation 20:8 “whose number is as the sand of the sea”? These billions of people whose number is “as the sand of the sea” are all those non-believers still on earth before the tribulation, who live and go through the tribulation, whose offspring are alive at the end of the 1000-year Millennium, whom God destroys and casts into the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev. 20: 9,10).
“They (those who number as the sand of the sea) went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city (the “beloved city” is Jerusalem – this is after the Millennium, as quoted in verses 7/8 above; this Gog-Magog war is Satan’s last attempt to destroy the Messiah Jesus Christ and all His saints who came back to earth after the tribulation; see Rev. 20:3). And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
For sake of clarity, one reason dispensationalist pre-tribulation rapture believers put this Gog-Magog war as happening “before the tribulation” is so they can point fingers at “others” who are “tares,” “others” who are “Jews,” and make not one adverse thing apply to themselves! NOT ONE!
Their fabricated beliefs make them the “good guys” with white hats, the “good guys” who don’t have to suffer anything adverse, so they make all those “really bad” things apply to anyone and everyone except themselves – Jews, pagans, non-believers. Their entire logic and false doctrine is based entirely on escapism – escapism from judgment, escapism from tribulation, escapism from suffering, escapism from purification, escapism from being “tares” or any other clearly applied Scripture Jesus taught would come on “you” believers in Christ!
Unfortunately, this false doctrinal belief or a similar form of the belief is believed, taught, and accepted by the majority in Christendom.
The two-thirds who comprise “tares” who are wheat lookalikes are also the majority! This majority of two-thirds will be gathered and cast into the lake of fire before the resurrection-rapture. The one single resurrection-rapture of true believers happens “after the tribulation,” exactly as Jesus taught in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and as clearly stated in Revelation 20:4-6 concerning the “first” resurrection. Revelation 20:5 clearly states that the “second” resurrection happens “after” the thousand-year Millennium! (This is but one of a half dozen Scriptures that refute a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine that requires one resurrection before the tribulation, one after the tribulation — which contradicts several Scriptures, including Rev. 20:4, 5.)
There is no such thing as three, five, seven, eight or more “resurrections” and “raptures” as dispensationalist pre-tribulation rapture believers espouse. Such things are fabricated out of thin air, mere human opinion. The gospel according to Hollywood may be about as truthful as dispensationalists’ fabrications.
Would it not be ironic that dispensationalist pre-tribulation rapture believers, and Preterists (mid-tribulation rapture believers) “think, believe and teach” that “they” will be the “only” ones who are “raptured” before and at the midpoint of the tribulation period – but won’t be – instead, it may be these same ones who are plucked up as “tares” and thrown into the lake of fire to be burned? Not all, but perhaps a majority of them. (The reason we know that not all of them are “tares” is that some dispensationalists and Preterists will still be on earth after the midpoint of the tribulation period, due to their declarations after the midpoint of seeing Jesus in the field, in the upper room, over here, over there.)
The prophecy is true. The Holy Spirit never gives us prophecies we can’t handle. Millions are about to die, but who is truly discerning who it is who will die? Money, use and handling of money aren’t the only means of determining who the millions are who will die and be cast into the lake of fire!
If anyone would like proof from Scripture about a false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine, my email address is rwhitewatchman@msn.com .
For Eirik: Several years ago, my husband and I had a small home church. We didn’t take up a collection, but rather had a box on the fireplace hearth that if anyone wanted, could put in money which we used to bless others. My husband told our members to tithe prayerfully, and if they knew of a person or family who needed their tithe, to give it to them. This is as it should be. If you know your church is misusing your tithe money, then I believe Father will hold you responsible as well as the church. If, on the other hand, you are giving and do not know that the church is misusing it, then Father will hold those in charge responsible.
I am not in agreement with the article.
To me, there are 7 types of churches.. …
Some are rich – - and quite – - self centered.
Some are poor – - and yet seem alive – - but they have little but Christ, so are Rich.
Some are quite carnal… etc. Will not list them all.
And I do think, that during different times – - perhaps ONE of these 7 churches can reach the people the best – - so these different Churches are continually descending and/or ascending – - all the time.
And I suppose Dumping and trashing the ones that may be going down hill – - – is great fun?
Reminds me of 1st Samuel. David behaved that way with Saul the usurper? Not.
There is one other thing that needs to be considered and that is the relationship we are to have with both God the Father and Jesus the Christ. Around 300AD the doctrine of the trinity was introduced to cover this and for the most part it worked quite well. However it is not a doctrine that is actually found in the scriptures and as such is open to huge variants in interpretation. As we enter the last days this has been taken advantage of with the intention of introducing new Christs that are not found in the scriptures
Now Jesus did warn us that this was going to happen so it should come as no surprise that it has started with the twisting of the scriptures so as to pave the way for their appearance.
[Quote]
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
[/quote]
Now Jesus would not have warned us about this if it were not going to be a very big problem that we would have to face. For this reason it would be a good idea to give some form of definition of who Jesus and God are as shown in the scriptures upon which the Christian faith is based.
Now there are a few things that I thing it would be prudent to take a second look at!
[quote]
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him may be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him, is not condemned: but he that believeth not, is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
[/quote]
Not that it was God the Father that so loved the world that he put in place the plan of salvation. He did this by sending his Son into the world, that is Jesus. It was Jesus that died on the cross so as to redeem us back to God his Father. It is through him that the world has the opportunity to be saved.
Now Notice what Jesus himself had to say about the subject;
[quote]
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[/quote]
Now look closer to that verse. The only way to come to God the Father is through Jesus himself. We first have to repent and submit to Jesus before we can come to his Father our God. Note that although we accept Jesus as our King it is God that is the end destination. Jesus redeemed us back to God. At no time did Jesus claim that he was a replacement for God. He died on the cross so as to pay the price of our sins so that we could come to God through him. And it is only through him that this is possible!
[quote]
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
[/quote]
Now below is a passage that shows quite well that the first Apostles, the ones that actually wrote the new testament held to this understanding as well. They understood that there is only one true God and that is the Father.
[quote]
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. [/quote]
Now God is the God of all Gods and Jesus is the king of Kings. There is a difference between them. They are not one and the same. We are redeemed back to God through Jesus because he is the one that paid the price for our sins at calvary and there is no other way to come to God but through him. But at the same time it is God that we are being reconciled to, not Jesus our King or Lord.
As Christians we are baptized into the body of Christ and Just as Christ serves his Father God so it is expected of us as Christs ambassadors here on this earth at this time to do the same. To demonstrate that point go to the bible and look at the opening greetings of all the epistles that were written to the churches by the first Apostles. All of them drew a distinction between the Father and the Son. In no greeting was it indicated that God and Jesus were in any way the same personality.
Now in this passage there is something important to note;
[quote]
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
[/quote]
That was a prophecy concerning Jesus. Now Jesus is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords so the question to ask is just what is a king? A King is the one that has political control, That is why verse 6 there says that the government will be upon his shoulders. God is the one that has spiritual oversight. A king that keeps the commandments of God and rules his people justly is blessed by God and protected by God. God the Father is the God over his own creation and his Son Jesus is the King that will govern it. We are citizens of Christs kingdom because we accepted him as such at our conversion when we were born again and we serve God his Father.
The moment you get a situation where Christ is being presented as God the Father himself you need to know that something is wrong. Jesus told us to accept himself as our Lord but he told us to pray to God his Father and serve him just as he also serves his Father. The moment you find yourself in a situation where you are looking to Jesus as God himself then you are not coming to God the Father are you? At that point start to consider that you may be getting introduced to one of the many false christs that Jesus warned us about.
There is one other thing that needs to be considered and that is the relationship we are to have with both God the Father and Jesus the Christ. Around 300AD the doctrine of the trinity was introduced to cover this and for the most part it worked quite well. However it is not a doctrine that is actually found in the scriptures and as such is open to huge variants in interpretation. As we enter the last days this has been taken advantage of with the intention of introducing new Christs that are not found in the scriptures
Now Jesus did warn us that this was going to happen so it should come as no surprise that it has started with the twisting of the scriptures so as to pave the way for their appearance.
[Quote]
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
[/quote]
Now Jesus would not have warned us about this if it were not going to be a very big problem that we would have to face. For this reason it would be a good idea to give some form of definition of who Jesus and God are as shown in the scriptures upon which the Christian faith is based.
Now there are a few things that I thing it would be prudent to take a second look at!
[quote]
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him may be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him, is not condemned: but he that believeth not, is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
[/quote]
Note that it was God the Father that so loved the world that he put in place the plan of salvation. He did this by sending his Son into the world, that is Jesus. It was Jesus that died on the cross so as to redeem us back to God his Father. It is through him that the world has the opportunity to be saved.
Now Notice what Jesus himself had to say about the subject;
[quote]
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[/quote]
Now look closer to that verse. The only way to come to God the Father is through Jesus himself. We first have to repent and submit to Jesus before we can come to his Father our God. Note that although we accept Jesus as our King it is God that is the end destination. Jesus redeemed us back to God. At no time did Jesus claim that he was a replacement for God. He died on the cross so as to pay the price of our sins so that we could come to God through him. And it is only through him that this is possible!
[quote]
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
[/quote]
Now below is a passage that shows quite well that the first Apostles, the ones that actually wrote the new testament held to this understanding as well. They understood that there is only one true God and that is the Father.
[quote]
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. [/quote]
Now God is the God of all Gods and Jesus is the king of Kings. There is a difference between them. They are not one and the same. We are redeemed back to God through Jesus because he is the one that paid the price for our sins at calvary and there is no other way to come to God but through him. But at the same time it is God that we are being reconciled to, not Jesus our King or Lord.
As Christians we are baptized into the body of Christ and Just as Christ serves his Father God so it is expected of us as Christs ambassadors here on this earth at this time to do the same. To demonstrate that point go to the bible and look at the opening greetings of all the epistles that were written to the churches by the first Apostles. All of them drew a distinction between the Father and the Son. In no greeting was it indicated that God and Jesus were in any way the same personality.
Now in this passage there is something important to note;
[quote]
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
[/quote]
That was a prophecy concerning Jesus. Now Jesus is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords so the question to ask is just what is a king? A King is the one that has political control, That is why verse 6 there says that the government will be upon his shoulders. God is the one that has spiritual oversight. A king that keeps the commandments of God and rules his people justly is blessed by God and protected by God. God the Father is the God over his own creation and his Son Jesus is the King that will govern it. We are citizens of Christs kingdom because we accepted him as such at our conversion when we were born again and we serve God his Father.
The moment you get a situation where Christ is being presented as God the Father himself you need to know that something is wrong. Jesus told us to accept himself as our Lord but he told us to pray to God his Father and serve him just as he also serves his Father. The moment you find yourself in a situation where you are looking to Jesus as God himself then you are not coming to God the Father are you? At that point start to consider that you may be getting introduced to one of the many false christs that Jesus warned us about.
Ron W/., if you paid one nickel for each word of your post to lovely Ruth Faley, whom I’m sure Andrew would help arrange, you would be sending her $318.25. Selah
RUTH… your story, though not as long and painstakingly arduous as some… really touched my heart and I believe what you are doing is what the Lord would have us do… reach out and touch others. Thank you Ruth, for your article, God bless you my sister and may He bless the work you are doing.
And where in the Bible does Jesus say, “I can’t help you just in case you sue me!” What a load of rubbish these people come out with. I’m from Australia and it’s obvious that this problem is ‘everywhere’!
Some ‘pastors’ are wearing suits and watches that would by food for a month for several people, not to mention the cars and private jets etc.
Lavish buildings keep people OUT, they don’t encourage them to come! Unsaved (and some saved) people are intimidated by the expenditure and the over-the-top extravagant opulence of some of these buildings.
I’ve enjoyed the articles… especially from Ruth.
God bless you all.
Paul
The HOLY SPIRIT LEADS US TO HONOUR THE TRUTH OF THE WORD OF GOD and this genuine Holy Spirit baptism in accordance with the clear teachings of the Word of God is the ONLY one which I am happy to testify to.
ONLY DEMONIC SPIRITS WILL LEAD TO SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE WORD OF GOD and a false christ which many are obviously representing in the harlot/usurper church masquerading as the church of Jesus Christ today.
An example of this harlotry is the often expressed sentiment that compromise is acceptable because unity is all important.
FAITHFULNESS TO HIS WORD IS WHAT GOD IS TESTING IN THESE LAST DAYS – ALL ELSE IS DELUSION.
When we start looking for God to do some “New Thing”, some “thing” not revealed to us in
the scriptures, we are setting ourselves up for a strong delusion and giving place to the Devil!
THIS IS WHAT THE USURPER CHURCH IS GUILTY OF!!!
Thescriptures are clear – God has in these last days spoken to us through his son Jesus Christ. Since the
canon of scripture was completed with the inspired writings of the Apostles of our Lord, there has
not been, and will not be, any “new” revelation by God. The Bible makes this perfectly clear, with
warnings in the beginning, middle, and end of the scriptures – warnings against taking away from or
adding to the revelation of God to man contained in the Bible:
“Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away
from it.” (Deut. 12:32 NKJV)
“Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him; do not add to
His words, lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.” (Proverbs 30:5-6 NKJV)
“For I testify to everyone who heard the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds
to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes
away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of
Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” (Rev. 22:18-19 NKJV)
To these I could certainly add Isaiah’s admonition, “To the law and to the testimony! If they
do not speak according to this word it is because there is no light in them.” And many others.
The point is that if God gives any revelation to men today that revelation will line up perfectly with the
revelation He has already given “once for all” in His word. If it doesn’t then it is not from God. This
hunger for a “new thing” or “new revelation” reminds one of the pagan philosophers that Paul encountered
on Mars Hill, and the early Gnostic heretics:
“ For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either
to tell or to hear some new thing.” (Acts 17:21 NKJV)
R. C. Sproul writes:
The Gnostics were so called because of their view of revelation. The word gnosis is the
Greek word for knowledge. In many cases the Gnostic heretics did not make a frontal assault against
the apostles or against the apostolic teaching of scripture. In fact, many of them insisted that they
were genuine, Bible believing Christians. It wasn’t that they rejected the Bible; they just claimed an
additional source of knowledge or insight that was superior to or at least beyond the knowledge of
Scripture. The “gnostikoi” were “those in the know.” Their knowledge was not derived from
intellectual comprehension of Scripture or by empirical research, but was mystical, direct, and
immediate. God “revealed” private, intuitive insights to them that carried nothing less than divine
authority.
God is not giving any “new revelation” to men today. And neither is He doing any “new
thing” on the Earth. Any “thing”, any experience or knowledge that God has for his people will be
found in the scriptures. Any experience or knowledge that is not found among it’s pages is not for
God’s people. Yes, there are spiritual gifts, valid spiritual gifts – revelation gifts, like the word of
wisdom, the word of knowledge, and prophecy that I believe are just as valid for the Church today as
they were for the Church of the Apostles. I have seen these gifts in operation in the Church, and have
experienced some of them myself and they are a beautiful thing both to behold and experience. Very
edifying. However, when the revelations that come through these gifts go beyond or contradict, or
add to or take away from the revelation of God contained in the Scriptures then they are nothing but
counterfeits. Experiences such as “slain in the spirit”, “holy laughter”, “drunkness in the spirit” and
most of the others that are coming with the so-called “revivals” at Toronto, Pensacola and other
places simply cannot be found anywhere in scripture. The leadership of these “revivals” know this
full well – and have stopped for the most part trying to defend them scripturally. Tricia Tillin writes:
John Wimber came from Quakerism. Is this why he has traces of the belief in the supremacy
of the inner revelation over and above the written word? In his book Power Evangelism Wimber
explains: “God uses our experiences to show us more fully what he teaches us in scripture, many
times toppling or altering elements of our theology and world view.” From Testing the Fruit of the
Vineyard, by John Goodwin (former pastor of the Calvary Chapel, San Jose [1990]) who traveled
extensively with John Wimber: “It is a common statement of Wimber’s that ‘God is greater than his
Word’. This means two things. First, that there is an essential truth in extra-biblical sources, and
secondly that the phenomena experienced by attendees of Vineyard seminars and church services do
not need to be validated by scripture. They could, according to Wimber, contradict God’s word and
still be ‘from the Lord.’”
“If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks
for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your
children, how much more will your heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
(Luke 11:11-13 NKJV)
On the surface this seems to be a valid objection. Jesus clearly promises here that if we seek Him
earnestly for the Holy Spirit we will receive the Holy Spirit, not a counterfeit, not another spirit – a serpent
or a scorpion. So how could these people at North Battleford where this Latter Rain filth started have received a visitation by seducing spirits?
The answer is that they could not – if they were truly seeking God for a valid, Biblical move of His Holy Spirit.
But when you are looking for a “new thing”, a revelation or an experience that’s outside of the
Word of God and the experience of the Apostles then you’re no longer asking for bread.
You’re outside the area in which God’s Spirit moves and into the area where other spirits move – the occult! You’re essentially asking God for a scorpion. If you continue to seek after a scorpion long enough eventually God is going to allow one to come along – and possibly/probably to sting you.
Remember, Jesus said that it’s “an evil and adulterous generation that seeks after a sign”.
Faithfulness to the Word of God is what GOD requires of the truly Born Again believer NOT this harlotry which has become popular amongst the religious people of our generation.
I hope there’s an hastening of what the Lord has shown……..not for our sake but atleast for the sake of the countless who are quiting faith and turning to “New age movements” to satisfy their spiritual hunger……recently Julia Roberts turned to hinduism…why?…cos they don’t hear about money and money in these religions…..they hear some spiritual stuff which is all a lie..but their souls are so hungry they lap up this fouled up water..God has put Eternity in the heart of every man…(Ecclesiates..3:11)….and it is the duty of the Church to show them what Eternity is and who the eternal God is…The rich churches of America doesn’t have anything to offer about eternity to those who are searching……where are the spritual teachings of Christ….In India there are faceless, nameless missionaries who do not have a meal to share with their family..who do not have money to buy a bicycle to ride on and go from place to place to preach the gospel…..whether its India or America nobody seems to be led to support in anyway these servants of God but they are led to bless only the flambouyant who stand in the pulpits….There are intercessors locked up behind closed doors in fervent intercession but dont know from where their next meal will come from….This is a true reality……Nehemiah:13—(1-14)…..Its time to do what Nehemiah did in prayer and intercession and warfare….
As far as I can tell, the main advantage that Babylon the harlot church has is that they know how the living water works and they will not tell anyone.
Living water flowing from your heart is what lines up with scripture. Spending all week in pain and church being the only source of living water is at odds with scripture. Worship singing as the only source of life so you are not in pain all the time is at odds with scripture too, but it is Babylon’s ace.
If you learn how to guard your heart so living water flows from it and you are not in pain all the time, then why do you need Babylon anyway? Certainly not for the resources, spiritual or mammon.
You are so right. God is calling out, raising up and sending out His mighty remnant church He has kept for Himself who have not bowed the knee to the Baals of the world (Rom 11:4). For to love the world makes one an enemy of God (Jam 4:4). And those who love the world will not inherit eternal life (1 Jn 2:17). The true Bride is making herself ready for the great marriage of the Lamb, having made herself ready by clothing herself in the righteousness deeds of the saints (Rev 19:7,8). For those who truly belong to the Lord Jesus Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires (Gal 5:24), putting to death the deeds of the flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:13). God is shaking all that can be shaken, man-made religion, so that true spirituality, that which is built on the Rock of Christ will stand (Heb 12:26-28). Instead of being tossed about by the winds of demonic doctrine, energized by the prince of the power of the air , the Remmant Church will trample underfoot the principalities and powers of darkness (Eph 4:13,14; 1 Tim 4:1,2; Rom 16:20; Lk 10:19). The truly righteous will live by faith/obedience, possessing faith to the preserving of the soul (Heb 10:38-39), obtaining eternal salvation by virtue of their Spirit empowered obedience and faith (Heb 5:9; 1 Pet 1:5,9).
I post lean as I think our quest is personal.I have been in a fight with Jezebel family members who hurt deeply my children. They are grown up barely and I saw last night Rev. 2 Amplified version to see a parallel to your vision perfectly. Also, personally, The Holy Spirit has brought me to these words “satans deepest secrets” something the amplified added to make this line up exact. Their group qualifies as a church, because they back up each other. There is also the added sexual perversion, pornography in the situation. These are also the days of the puzzle pieces fitting fast! The tag to your vision is Jezebel and her followers will be “pulverized”. This group type cannot be tolerated, something I now personally know!
I just want to re-iterate a few things.
Firstly, I am not anti-establishment nor do I believe this word was. I think the important thing is that we, as believers, do again corporately, what was done in the beginning. I think it was Andrew who said the early church was all about two things: Looking after the poor and needy, and spreading the gospel. We can do far more as a corporate entity by pooling our resources then we can as individuals working separately. The early church knew this which is why they gave money to the body of believers to be distributed as any had need.
I believe that there are many many people going to church every Sunday that are simply ignorant that God has more for them and I don’t believe God condemns people for ignorance without first showing them they are ignorant. God knows that He can’t leave them ignorant. He’s got to get their attention. He has to teach them what it means to follow Him and He has to show them what the price of following Him is. I think that persecution of Christians is coming to North America and that there will be a separation of wheat and tares by the God using the instrument of Government sanctioned persecution.
When things become hard and you can be beaten, tortured, jailed and killed for claiming Christ THEN you will see wave after wave of so-called Christians either drop the pretense or get serious with God because He’s the only one that can save them. When this happens the only ones who won’t be able to really avoid it will be the leaders who stood up every Sunday or were on TV or Radio broadcasts or on the internet professing to be Christians. They will all be thrown in jail with enough evidence to convict them wholesale. The true servants of Christ will come through it one way or another. The puffed-up, self-anointed ones will get a serious deflating and either perish or repent.
I believe the Usurper Church is not a physical church or churches but rather a spiritual entity set up by Satan, built by our own sinful nature and it is that Church which will be uncovered and destroyed because its root is not in God but in Man.
I don’t condemn my church for spending money on an elevator to aid those who find stairs difficult to go up and down. There are enough of them to warrant it. I just wish with all my heart that they would put as much zeal and heart into looking after the poor and needy and spreading the gospel. I know now that they have the financial capacity to give generously. I want to see them do as much and more when someone is in need.
I am not in the habit of tarring everyone with the same brush. I am not laying condemnation on any individual or any individual churches or even denominations as a whole. That isn’t the point. God will judge, not me. I just know what Christ’s Bride is supposed to look like and what passes for Her right now is so often false to the core. God is going to do something about it.
Perceptive comment Sarah regarding what’s been going on in the spiritual realm, definitely as in the time of the children of Israel coming out of Egypt “the gods of Egypt” will be judged, with respect to the people, we are to be in prayer and stand on what God shows us in prayer even if it’s contrary to what we see with our physical eyes at this point in time (we walk by faith not by sight), Amen?
My sentiments exactly!
Any interpretation of Revelation 17 and 18 is difficult because expositors have not agreed as to the details of their interpretations. In general, however, it is helpful to consider chapter 17 as dealing with Babylon as an ecclesiastical or spiritual entity and chapter 18 as dealing with Babylon as a political entity. It is also helpful in chapter 17 to distinguish the vision in verses 1 through 6 from the interpretation in verses 7 through 18.
John is shown the vision of the destruction of Babylon, as representing false religion, by one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and is invited to behold the judgment of a woman, the symbol of Babylon, described as the great whore (Gr., porne„, usually translated “harlot”), who is seen sitting on many waters. The interpretation of “waters” is that these are the many nations ruled by Babylon.. The woman is further described as having committed fornication (Gr., porneuo„, verb form of porne„) chasing after false religion(s) and false god(s) as is clearly the case in the apostate church today seeking after ecumenical unity with all manner of religious entities and completely disregarding scriptural integrity in favour of spiritual experiences devoid of biblical substance.
The inhabitants of the earth are declared to have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
The picture of the woman as utterly evil signifies spiritual adultery, portraying those who outwardly and religiously seem to be joined to the true God but who are untrue to this relationship.
The symbolism of spiritual adultery is not ordinarily used of heathen nations who know not God, but always of people who outwardly carry the name of God while actually worshiping and serving other gods.
The concept of spiritual adultery is frequently used in describing the apostasy of Israel (cf. Ezek. 16 and 23; all of Hosea). Characteristically, the Jehovah of the Old Testament is the husband of Israel (cf. Isa. 54:1-8; Jer. 3:14; 31:32).
In the New Testament the church is viewed as a virgin destined to be joined to her husband in the future (2 Cor. 11:2), but she is warned against spiritual adultery (James 4:4).
The alliance of the apostate church with the political powers of the world during this future period of time not only debauches the true spiritual character of the church and compromises her testimony in every way but has the devastating effect of inducing religious drunkenness on the part of the inhabitants of the earth.
False religion is always the worst enemy of true religion, and the moral wickedness involved in the union of the church with the world imposes a stupefying drunkenness as far as spiritual things are concerned. The hardest to win to Christ and the most difficult to instruct in spiritual truth are those who have previously embraced false religion with its outward show of a worship of God.
The concept here presented, enlarging on the previous revelation in 14:8, makes plain that the apostate church has eagerly sought and solicited the adulterous relation with the world political powers and therefore is primarily responsible for its own eternal damnation.
This is clearly the picture in the FALSE CHURCH TODAY.
Those who have an ear to heaar what God is saying MUST “come out from among them and touch NOT the unclean thing” or they too will be going to HELL with the deluded multitudes.
ONLY THE JESUS CHRIST PRESENTED TO US IN THE BIBLE IS ABLE TO SAVE US – ALL other christs’ are false.
Run with the wolves and you will be “shot” as a wolf. There will be NO excuses on the judgement day for those who choose to hide behind the cloak of scriptural ignorance and spiritual naivete.
Wayne,
Why did you not give John F. Walvoord proper credit for the above writings? You are not a creditable witness for Jesus Christ!
From bible.org
17. The Destruction Of Ecclesiastical Babylon
By: John F. Walvoord
http://bible.org/seriespage/17-destruction-ecclesiastical-babylon
“Any interpretation of Revelation 17 and 18 is difficult because expositors have not agreed as to the details of their interpretations.”
Wayne, is this what you believe? Do you know it’s possible to have a real and living relationship with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit and that He is well able to open His own writings to His own people when we seek Him, and without difficulty?
There are reasons why the scriptures are often difficult for the carnal mind.
Though the Word says to not avoid the assembling of ourselves together, where in this world are we to go? Besides that, He said assembling without any reference to joining a denomination, the frequency… essentially getting back to the vain religion Yeshua set us free from. Paul gave inspired Words about what we do when we gather, but God’s Word also said that when the Holy Spirit comes, there’s no need for us to be taught of man. Of course we get wisdom, confirmation and subjects to seek God about, but the ‘church’ today seems to think we can’t survive spiritually without becoming a regular member & agreeing with everything they say.
I believe this prophetic message, as I, too, have received the same. The crash will be devastating to all those ‘christians’ that have lots of ‘stuff,’ mistakingly calling it ‘blessings from
God.’ Most every church, in every denomination, wants to build an empire; a walled vacuum against the world. Big ‘churches’ look like shopping centers with stores, coffee shops, wi-fi centers to surf… every comfort of the world they can find ‘substitution justification’ possible. It makes me sick to walk into one of those churches. I am immediately reminded of the rich metropolis of Laodicea.
Though it will be a hard existence, I am looking forward to the destruction of mammon and this modern church empire. It’s either Laodicean based or Hindu (kundalini) based worship (I call “Bethelizing” from Bethel in Redding, Ca.). Either way, it’s mammon & there’s barely an established ‘church’ one can go to, now days, without feeling the need to throw-up and cry. Whatever happened to the simple preaching of repentance, baptism, discipleship & sanctification? Only then to go on to the deeper relationship with our Father Yahweh.
Thanks for the word!
My church just a few months ago spent several thousands of dollars to rennovate. Paint and make pretty knowing hard time were here. I can only imagine what that money could have been spent for. They said they went ahead and did it because “it was already budgeted”. Go figure.
The ‘church’ is started like a business. First it must bow the knee to the Federal govt to get its tax exempt status, for a board & by-laws. Then it must go into debt to get a building, buy furniture, sound board & musical related equipment, insurance, air-conditioning. A regular denominational church must tie up most of its money for its own comfort, entertainment and status.
I don’t believe this was an expedient way to go. The ‘church’ has been fractured for a long time now. For the most part, its first major move is to kiss Baal by yoking with the Feds. SO WHAT if you can’t ‘write-off’ your deductions, the trade off is to be limited, in spoken content. In many places, preaching against homosexuality & sin , in general, is prohibited. Churches don’t make enough to be concerned about its tax exempt status & if it did, it would make substantial benevolent donations to eliminate any taxes; or just pay them as a way not to be unequally yoked with the Feds.
Like I said on another topic “On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand”. We are talking about sand here. The answer is cling to the Rock. But I have another point to make. The bible says the the church will be without spot or wrinkle when Jesus comes for his bride. You get a spot out by soap and water, the wrinkle comes out by heat and pressure. We know that the water is the word. But what is the heat? It comes from the fire. In the book of Daniel we read about the 3 Hebrew children Meshak, Shadirack, and Abendigo (please excuse the spelling if i got it wrong). They refused to bow down to the statue inspite of the “pressure” to do so. Well it all leads up to the fire being 7 times hotter than usuall. I believe this is a picture of the 7 years of tribulation. This is the fire that the church will go through. It will get the wrinkles out of the church. It will burn away the chaff. We can debate what is sand, what are wrinkles, and what are spots all day long. The fire will take care of all of that by burning what is not of spirit but is of the flesh. Fire is made up of 3 things. Heat, oxygen, and fuel. Heat = persecution/trials, oxygen = the holy spirit, fuel= flesh. Fire will not start with those 3 parts until the item being burned reaches a certain “flashpoint”. The church (as a whole) is the way it is because there has been heat, but until the tribulation period, the flash point will not (totally) be reached. Once it is “7 times hotter” the flesh in the church will begin to burn (yet on a smaller scale people are now laying their lives on the alter as a living sacrifice, Romans 12;1, yet again some places around the world are already in the fire due to persecution they are receiving). The answer is to live in the spirit and walk not according to the flesh. Lay it on the alter now and let the flesh be put to death, or later on when it will be forced through the fire as the church gets purged of all the fluff. The church that says it is rich and in need of nothing will be put through the fire (Revelation). Others, if you have read, have already touched on these same issues in here today.
Brothers and Sisters the fire is coming and we are seeing the things in the “church” today that is, and will be, “fuel for the fire”. Let us build our house upon the Rock (Matt 7:24-28) and prepare for the storm (fire) that lies ahead.
Brother Ken
Watchful
I believe it is often difficult to get consensus about what Revelations teaches. What I believe is based on my best understanding of the simple teaching of scripture and is open to scholarly correction and adjustment based on the best principles of bible and theological study.
However the main point I am making is to be vary wary of the nonsense masquerading as christianity today.
John is shown the vision of the destruction of Babylon, as representing false religion, by one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and is invited to behold the judgment of a woman, the symbol of Babylon, described as the great whore (Gr., porne„, usually translated “harlot”), who is seen sitting on many waters. The interpretation of “waters” is that these are the many nations ruled by Babylon.. The woman is further described as having committed fornication (Gr., porneuo„, verb form of porne„) chasing after false religion(s) and false god(s) as is clearly the case in the apostate church today seeking after ecumenical unity with all manner of religious entities and completely disregarding scriptural integrity in favour of spiritual experiences devoid of biblical substance.
The inhabitants of the earth are declared to have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
The picture of the woman as utterly evil signifies spiritual adultery, portraying those who outwardly and religiously seem to be joined to the true God but who are untrue to this relationship.
The symbolism of spiritual adultery is not ordinarily used of heathen nations who know not God, but always of people who outwardly carry the name of God while actually worshiping and serving other gods.
The concept of spiritual adultery is frequently used in describing the apostasy of Israel (cf. Ezek. 16 and 23; all of Hosea). Characteristically, the Jehovah of the Old Testament is the husband of Israel (cf. Isa. 54:1-8; Jer. 3:14; 31:32).
In the New Testament the church is viewed as a virgin destined to be joined to her husband in the future (2 Cor. 11:2), but she is warned against spiritual adultery (James 4:4).
The alliance of the apostate church with the political powers of the world during this future period of time not only debauches the true spiritual character of the church and compromises her testimony in every way but has the devastating effect of inducing religious drunkenness on the part of the inhabitants of the earth.
False religion is always the worst enemy of true religion, and the moral wickedness involved in the union of the church with the world imposes a stupefying drunkenness as far as spiritual things are concerned. The hardest to win to Christ and the most difficult to instruct in spiritual truth are those who have previously embraced false religion with its outward show of a worship of God.
The concept here presented, enlarging on the previous revelation in 14:8, makes plain that the apostate church has eagerly sought and solicited the adulterous relation with the world political powers and therefore is primarily responsible for its own eternal damnation.
This is clearly the picture in the FALSE CHURCH TODAY.
Those who have an ear to heaar what God is saying MUST “come out from among them and touch NOT the unclean thing” or they too will be going to HELL with the deluded multitudes.
ONLY THE JESUS CHRIST PRESENTED TO US IN THE BIBLE IS ABLE TO SAVE US – ALL other christs’ are false.
Run with the wolves and you will be “shot” as a wolf. There will be NO excuses on the judgement day for those who choose to hide behind the cloak of scriptural ignorance and spiritual naivete.
Well said John.
We seem to be on the same spiritual wavelength.
May God bless you as you honour HIS Word and stand for true christian (biblical) righteousness.
Robert Glenn, your silly questions have been more than adequately addressed before. If you understood that the Word of God is NOT for the private interpretation of individuals you would see how peurile your attacks on HIS Word really are.
The truly born again Bible believing christian lead by the Holy Spirit rather than the demonic spirit(s) leading the deluded individuals of the apostate church will always submit to sound bible teaching by Godly bible expositors. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God preached and taught by Godly expositors is a clear message of the Word of God itself. I have NOT invented anything new NOR do would I ever dare to do so.
We are not required to reinvent the wheel but to humbly submit to the faith once delivered and this is what I WILL ALWAYS DO!!!!
The supernatural aspect of the Word of God is that it is NOT the personal teaching of “anointed” men but the Word of God itself which has power to save those who are prepared to repent of their religious obsessions and humbly submit to HIS will.
Those who are humbly submitted to the Will of God as set out for us in the Word of God will NEVER presume to assert their personal wisdom in competition with the revealed Word of God.
They realize that their personal wisdom as likely to be just as foolish as the carnal/demonic wisdom of every spiritual wacko seeking to impose their special unbiblical, antibiblical superbiblical revelations on those who are content to remain scripturally ignorant and spirirtually naive and therefore be lead by the nose to HELL.
The whole BIBLE has been written to warn us to avoid such people and their teachings BUT only the remnant will actually heed the warning and remain faithful until the very end.
The large scale efforts to pervert the clear teachings of the Word of God so obvious in the “usurper church” are indeed very tragic and a clear confirmation of the scriptural warning that God is allowing those who do not LOVE the simple TRUTH of HIS WORD to be deluded by whatever it is they do love.
An example of this may be seen seen by considering the reason why unity is absolutely impossible between TRULY BORN AGAIN BIBLE BELIEVING CHRISTIANS and those involved in false religions based on alternative man made or demonic perspectives.
A good way of achieving this is by looking at the GROSS errors emanating from Roman Catholicism, for example, and the sad state of affairs that sees ecumenical unity so prominent ideologically amongst the leaders of what may have previously been considered to be bible believing groups many of which actually testify to being lead by pentecostal distinctives whilst clearly embracing babylonianism.
The fundamental problem confronting the average Roman Catholic is the fact that they are almost completely unaware of what the Catholic Bible really teaches. Many sincere Catholics, including laymen and parish priests alike, have never had sufficient cause to question the teachings of their church because they have never been adequately instructed in the Scriptural truths which challenge the principle doctrines of Catholicism.
The tragic reality is that the overwhelming majority of Catholics have either never personally studied the Bible, or have only done so under the strict supervision and scrutiny of their church. Many have not been exposed to the clear, simple truths of the Bible because they have been repeatedly warned to rely on the official interpretations, opinions, and traditions of the church.
Even though Catholic versions of the Bible (Jerusalem Bible, New American, and Challoner-Rheims Version of the Latin Vulgate) encourage Bible reading and study (Deut. 6:7-9; Ps. 119:9-11; Acts 17:11), the tragic historical fact is that Catholicism, with very few exceptions, has repeatedly discouraged Bible reading and study, and even banned or restricted its use, distribution, and possession.
THE BIBLE AND ROMAN CATHOLICISM
The Roman Catholic Church has traditionally suppressed, opposed, and forbidden the open use of the Bible. It was first officially forbidden to the people and placed on the index of Forbidden Books List by the Council of Valencia in 1229 A.D. The Council of Trent (1545-63 A.D.) also prohibited its use and pronounced a curse upon anyone who would dare oppose this decree. Many popes have issued decrees forbidding Bible reading in the common language of the people, condemning Bible societies and banning its possession and translation under penalty of mortal sin and death. The Roman Catholic Church has openly burned Bibles and those who translated it or promoted its study, reading, and use (John Hus, 1415 A.D.; William Tyndale, 1536 A.D.)
Though external pressures have caused Rome to relax its restrictions and opposition against Bible reading in America, the Bible is still widely withheld and its distribution and free use discouraged in many countries which are heavily influenced by Roman Catholicism.
My daughter has been informed by lecturers at a Roman Catholic University that the Bible is merely a book of myths and legends subject to the teachings of the church.
This is another classic example of the “anointed” ones usurping the role of the Holy Spirit in a persons life by insisting that they and not the Bible are the source of the revealed Word of God.
Usurping the role of the Bible as the sole basis of faith and morals for instruction in how to live a life that is pleasing to God is, I believe, the unpardonable sin. The truly born again, bible believing christian has the Holy Spirit to assist with the application of that truth to their lives and is clearly able to do so effectively if they are prepared to humbly submit to it. POPERY IS AN ABOMINATION!
A RELIGIOUS SYSTEM OF BIBLICAL DISTORTIONS
Roman Catholicism is a system which is comprised of a mixture of truth and error. On the surface, it appears to many to be a brand of Christianity because it staunchly claims to embrace and defend the essential doctrines of the Christian faith. However, a closer examination proves that it is a system which actually nullifies and distorts Scriptural truth by adding erroneous, man-made teachings which openly contradict the Catholic and non-Catholic Bibles.
For example, the Roman Catholic Church claims the inspiration of the Scriptures, but dilutes the Word of God by exalting the authority of its own traditions, councils, and decrees above the Bible. Catholicism teaches the deity of Christ, but places Mary and priests as mediators between God and believers so that free access to Jesus is only possible through them. It teaches the forgiveness of sin, but only through confession to a priest and the absolution given by him. Catholicism teaches salvation, but substitutes a system of grace plus works in which human works are more important. It teaches that Christ established the Church, but exalts a man (the pope) as its head and invests absolute, infallible authority in him and his official decrees. WHAT NONSENSE IS THIS????
THE GRADUAL DEVELOPMENT OF ROMAN CATHOLIC ERRORS
Before we compare the fundamental teachings of Roman Catholicism with the Catholic Bible, it should be pointed out that the distinctive features of Catholicism originated several hundred years after the early church. Though the Catholic Church argues that its roots can be traced to Christ, the historical facts do not substantiate this claim. Roman Catholic dogma has gradually evolved over the centuries. However, none of its major traditions and doctrines were taught, defended, practiced, or embraced by the apostolic church. The following list will indicate the approximate date when the various doctrines, rituals, decrees, and beliefs were instituted:
1. Prayers for the dead. (A.D. 300)
2. Making the sign of the cross. (300)
3. Wax candles. (320)
4. Veneration of angels and dead saints, and use of images. (375)
5. The beginning of mass as a daily celebration. (394)
6. The worship and exaltation of Mary and use of term “Mother of God”(431)
7. Priests begin to dress differently from laity. (500)
8. Extreme unction. (526)
9. The doctrine of purgatory, instituted by Gregory I. (593)
10. The Latin Language used in worship and prayer Gregory I. (600)
11. Prayers directed to Mary, dead saints and angels. (600)
12. Title of “Pope” or “universal bishop” first given to Boniface III. (607)
13. Kissing the pope’s foot, began with Pope Constantine. (709)
14. Temporal power of the popes, conferred by Pepin, King of France. (750)
15. Worship of the cross, image, and relics authorized in (786).
16. Holy water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by a priest. (850)
17. Worship of St. Joseph. (890)
18. College of Cardinals established. (927)
19. Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV. (995)
20. Fastings on Fridays and during Lent. (998)
21. The mass developed as a sacrifice and attendance made mandatory. (11th Century)
22. Celibacy of the priesthood, decreed by Pope Gregory VII. (1079)
23. The rosary, used in prayer. (1090)
24. The Inquisition, instituted by the Council of Verona. (1184)
25. Sale of Indulgences. (1190)
26. Transubstantiation, proclaimed by Pope Innocent III. (1215)
27. Auricular (private) confession of sins to a priest, instituted by Pope Innocent III in Lateran Council. (1215)
28. Adoration of wafer (Host), decreed by Pope Honorius III. (1220)
29. Bible forbidden to laymen and placed on Index of Forbidden Books by Council of Valencia. (1229)
30. The Scapular, invented by Simon Stock, an English monk. (1251)
31. Cup forbidden to the people at communion by Council of Constance. (1414)
32. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma by Council of Florence. (1439)
33. The doctrine of seven sacraments affirmed. (1439)
34. The Ave Maria (Hail Mary) invented and completed 50 years later. (1508)
35. Jesuit order founded by Loyola. (1534)
36. Tradition declared to be of equal authority with the Bible by Council of Trent. (1545)
37. The Apocryphal books added to the Bible by the Council of Trent. (1546)
38. Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX. (1854)
39. Syllabus of Errors, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX and ratified by the Vatican Council; condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press, and scientific discoveries which are disapproved by the Roman Church; reasserted the Pope’s temporal authority over all civil rulers. (1864)
40. Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals proclaimed by the Vatican Council. (1870)
41. Public schools condemned by Pope Pius XI. (1930)
42. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death), proclaimed by Pope XII. (1950)
43. Mary proclaimed mother of the Church by Pope Paul VI. (1965)
Many other scriptural abuses and irregularities could be added to this list: Monks, nuns, monasteries, convents, forty days of Lent, holy week, Palm Sunday, Ash Wednesday, All Saints Day, Candlemas Day, fish day, meat days, incense, holy oil, holy palms, St. Christopher medals, charms, relics, novenas, and many more. This revealing list represents an overview of the many human inventions which have corrupted, distorted, and perverted the official positions presented as truth by the Roman Catholic Church.
Only faithful commitment to the CLEAR teachings of scripture will prevent those humbly submitted to the will of GOD from accepting and promulgating such false teachings as these and the myriad of other false teachings which abound.
We are on shaky ground indeed when we think we are wiser than the WORD of GOD itself or that some spirit will give us teachings which are superior to the clear teachings of the Word of God.
ONLY THE JESUS CHRIST OF THE BIBLE IS ABLE TO SAVE US.
THE DEMONICALLY INSPIRED IMAGINATIONS OF THE HUMAN MIND WILL BE INEFFECTIVE ON THE JUDGEMENT DAY.
Wayne, thank you for acknowledging my existence even if only for a couple of sentences or so – I must say it was a refreshing moment while it lasted. Fellowship is meant to be encouraging like that – he who refreshes will himself be refreshed. Bless you.. :)
Back to the topic – hope you realize that the harlot church began to rely on “expositors” instead of listening to the Holy Spirit..in my life when I “came out of her”, it was not any expositors who restored to me a revelation of grace and the true gospel, it was the Holy Spirit and Him alone.
I so agree with this article. But, what to do? If the church must fellowship and not deny the assembling of the saints, buildings are needed.
Churches that I know of always find a piece of property outside the outskirts of the cities, in nice residential area, away from inner city poverty, so they serve themselves, by denying their presence from the needy areas. Have always wondered too if a “church” should only involve not more than, say, 30, 40 or 50 people. Each neighborhood could have it’s own church in someone’s home, if one was willing to do that. There’d be no need for mortgages. And, the neighborhood being no more than several blocks large would allow those without cars to walk to the church home.
Also, those who are disabled, in that neighborhood, who are homebound, could easily have those neighborhood christians go to their home and pray with them. A small close-knit family neighborhood church in every 1 or 2-mile radius. Instead of these huge churches that demand more costs due to renovations, additions, heating, electricity, taxes, administrative costs, equipment, etc.
Each member could provide the necessary equipment based on what each person had.
The large impersonal churches now are becoming habitats just like the world, institutions that reward employees with bigger and better pastoral jobs, music ministry jobs. And there’s the great divide between the “titled” personnel of a church, and the lonely saint sitting in the pew week after week. Those with burdens and gifts are ignored. In a small neighborhood home-church, every person would have a function and serve according to their gifts.
Maybe not everyone agrees with me on this, but I think a pastor should work. Have at least some job skill, and he should be like all members, have the same amount of family time as each member. Administrative work would be unnecessary and pastor and members would all volunteer their time as the need arises. A small neighborhood home church shouldn’t expect any more from the pastor than they are willing to give, because they all feel equal in service. Travel costs would be unneccesary.
I know many pastors who have travelled have been called by God to go certain places. But, there’s a trend in north american churches, where it’s almost expected for a pastor to travel almost every month. And this is overseas travel to foreign countries.
Evangelists of course should travel and are called to go wherever God feels to send them. Probably because a prophet will not be listened to in his own territory. But pastors of local churches shouldn’t be running all over the globe. If God called them to shepherd, they should concentrate on the area that they were called to shepherd. I’ve seen so many pastors go to Scotland, France, England, the Carribean, to preach at conventions and their own neighborhood has a welfare compound blocks away, where kids are living in poverty-level homes, with single parents, abusive parents. The church doesn’t even minister, or care about their own back yard. If they can’t take care of their own house, how can they take care of the bigger things thousands of miles away?
Just pondering my thoughts on this. It is disconcerting; and am so thankful that others on this site are concerned too and talking about this too.
I s Rev. 18:4 a clarion call to the believers in the apostate church: Get out while you still can! ?
I don’t believe the apostate church will go away. In fact, Jesus predicted a great apostasy. But as long as He loves her, I will love her.
Wayne: Down boy! :-)
Tony: I read with alarm the ‘doctrine’ which you espouse. It is J.W. or some other non-trinitarian teaching. Do you realise what you do in denying the Trinity? You deny a sound knowledge of scripture but also quench the Holy Spirit. I tremble in my boots!
Getting back to the subject in hand (and not forgetting what Susan Farley and her husband are actually living, which scripture tells us is true religion) there has been much discussion in this forum before about the organised church. It has become like the world. Corrupt. I am talking about the system, not necessarily the people in it. But why can they not see it? If they can see, it why do they remain in it? It is also corrupting in its influence.
It is because they do not follow the true shepherd. They ‘do what the Romans do’ because everyone else seems to do likewise.They try to please men.Their consciences are deadened by compromise.
Seriously, if they were to point out the wrongs they saw, how long would they last? Their neighbour in the pew is not making a fuss so why should they? Often they wish someone would , but no-one does and so they all keep their heads down. ‘All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing! ‘ as an Irish statesman once said. Who has the courage of his/her convictions to remove themselves from what they see is wrong? What about their friends ? Do they have to leave them? (They will soon find out who their friends are.)
The system has elevated pastors to a position above the common herd , for example. They pay them, but instead of being servants ,they are more like bosses! What did that pastor say when he was told that is was a waste of money spending it on the elevator? After all, what good is that type of building without an efficient elevator? I would ask what they were doing in a building like that in the first place!
What is wrong with meeting in homes where there are no extra costs? Not enough people to control or to lord it over? Who mentioned tithing ? It is only necessary when you have assets to buy or maintain, staff to pay, etc. It is an old testament practice, now encouraged or even demanded to accommodate the plans of empire builders. House too small? Open up another, and another or use premises otherwise vacant or meet down by the river (in fine weather.) We have departed from the early church in every way, trading reality for comfort and respectability. We have to have something good to attract people to and must be ‘seeker friendly’.
I could go on , but I think you catch my drift. What have we to offer if we ‘hold only the form of religion and deny its power’? Some churches are into strange practices in their desparation to show manifestations.They hold to doctrines of demons. Is this not all like the rest of the ‘world’?
That is why the Lord is saying “come out of it”. It has nothing to do with size. It is a matter for each of us to resolve through prayer, personal honesty and integrity. Whom do you follow? Joshua said, ‘As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord’. Do you say ‘amen’ to that? It could mean loss of ‘friends’, status , influence, but what gain! What a friend we have in Jesus.What status as sons of the living God.What influence we have in our heavenly father.
Actually Harvey
What I said is perfectly correct in every way. That is what is found in the new testament. And no I am not a JW or a Mormon. I am a Christian.
Christ redeemed us back to God the Father. The first Apostles only submitted to one God and that was the Father. They where only able to come to the Father through the blood of Christ. That is what the scriptures teach.
That is what we should be following! Not the doctrines of men that developed over time after the scriptures where already written and put in place.
Amen to your word Harvey about coming out from everything that is the tradition of man or the doctrine of demons only the Holy Spirit can give understanding of the truth of scripture, He is the revelator of truth to our hearts and each one of us is accountable before God to the truth that He reveals to us, even if it’s just the truth of creation we are still accountable…
Praise God that He has revealled these things to us – those who believe on His Name – by His Spirit, without His Spirit within us, where would we be?
O God reveal to Your Church, Your Chosen Vessel on this earth at this point in time what it is that “the Spirit is saying to the churches”… Open our eyes that we may see what You are saying, raise up prophets, raise up intercessors, raise up apostles, raise up teachers and pastors – not in the perverted sense that we see all around us in the “church” today but in the sense You intended when you gave these gifts of service to Your Body – we need to hear a clear clarion call of what Your Church is being called to at this present time, O God bring us back to our roots, bring us back to the day of Pentecost and the days which preceeded the day of Pentecost where the 120 in the upper room sought Your face, most likely with fasting and weeping and great sadness over their sinful condition and yet with expectancy and hope in what You were about to perform, Father where is the glory in us just denouncing evil but not demonstrating righteousness? Yes, Lord, let us denounce evil but let us demonstrate righteousness and be the Light of the World, be the City set on a Hill, be Jesus Christ to a lost a dying world, O God forgive us, O God heal us, O God set us free from our selfishness and our pride and open our eyes to what You are about to do in these days, O God have mercy, O God have mercy, O God have mercy on us all…
Dean –
Regardless of the provision God may have made for the unfaithful, those who approve of what is going on in the apostate church and remain a part of it are going to hell.
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Proverbs 16:4
Matthew Henry had this to say about this proverb:
Note, 1. That God is the first cause. He is the former of all things and all persons, the fountain of being; he gave every creature the being it has and appointed it its place. Even the wicked are his creatures, though they are rebels; he gave them those powers with which they fight against him, which aggravates their wickedness, that they will not let him that made them rule them, and therefore, though he made them, he will not save them. 2. That God is the last end. All is of him and from him, and therefore all is to him and for him. He made all according to his will and for his praise; he designed to serve his own purposes by all his creatures, and he will not fail of his designs; all are his servants. The wicked he is not glorified by, but he will be glorified upon. He makes no man wicked, but he made those who he foresaw would be wicked: yet he made them (Gen. 6:6), because he knew how to get himself honour upon them. See Rom. 9:22. Or (as some understand it) he made the wicked to be employed by him as the instruments of his wrath in the day of evil, when he brings judgments on the world. He makes some use even of wicked men, as of other things, to be his sword, his hand (Ps. 17:13, 14), flagellum Dei-the scourge of God. The king of Babylon is called his servant.
Let us remember then, that our Lord (by definition of who He is) made everything even the wicked for His purpose. He is testing our faithfulness to HIS Word and ONLY the foolish this truth or bible doctrine does NOT matter.
What a mighty God we serve!
“And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to naught by the manifestation of his coming; even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God sends them a working of error, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (2Thes. 2:8-12 ASV).
In this context, the apostle speaks of defection from the original New Testament pattern of Christianity.
In connection therewith, he addresses the kind of disposition that is a prelude to apostasy. For example, he speaks of that mental attitude that does not embrace a “love of the truth;” rather, it takes “pleasure in unrighteousness.” UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS ANYTHING WHICH DOES NOT LINE UP WITH THE WORD OF GOD!!!
This reveals a character incredibly resistant to the will of God.
This test of our faithfulness to HIS Word will reveal those who really love HIM and those arrogant and proud people who love themselves and their self centred religion based on good works and all manner of diversions from the truth of HIS Word.
Many Christian souls have become victims of false teaching. There are those who seem to think that false teachers do not exist, but the Saviour warned of this danger (Matthew 7:15) and subsequent history reveals the devastation of believing error (cf. 1 Timothy 4:1ff; 2 Timothy 4:1ff).
In our own day, we have observed many in the church yielding to the influence of error.
Everywhere defection from the ancient faith is everywhere.
The expression, “the old paths,” has become a term subject to ridicule by a new clan of self-designated sophisticates whose ambition seems to focus on fashioning a church in their own image, rather than after the biblical pattern.
“Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall Find rest for your souls. But the said, We will not walk therein” (Jeremiah 6:16).
CORRECTION:
I meant to say everywhere defection from the ancient path is evident.
The ancient path is NOT about legalism it is about faithfulness.
Andrew J Horton
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS SAYING TO THE CHURCHES THAT GOD IS TESTING FAITHFULNESS TO HIS WORD.
HE WOULD HAVE ALL WHO LOVE HIM TO COME OUT FROM AMONG THOSE WHO HAVE DESERTED THE OLD WAYS IN FAVOUR OF THE SENSUAL PLEASURES OF INVOLVEMENT IN THE OCCULT AND THE RESULTANT SPIRITUAL FILTH SO PREVALENT TODAY
Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.
When we are faithful to HIS Word and give up seeking spiritual distractions and sensual spiritual pleasures from occultic sources HE will receive us and be a father to us and lead us into our eternal rest. Stop striving for spiritual depravity and communion with demonic spirits and seek GODS WAY before it is too late.
Hi Wayne,
You say in your post above,
“Andrew J Horton… Stop striving for spiritual depravity and communion with demonic spirits and seek GODS WAY before it is too late.”
I call you to account and to witness before God and ask you to testify before God and everyone else on this thread, where in anything that I’ve posted on this thread above am I “striving for spiritual depravity and communion with demonic spirits” and why I would need to “seek GODS WAY before it is too late”?
I would also ask for Andrew Strom’s opinion as Moderator of this side of the forum whether he believes there to be any basis in your accusations against myself above and if he doesn’t for him to act accordingly regarding your behaviour on this forum.
I speak this in the love of God, Wayne, please answer me honestly from your heart in the sight of God and our fellow posters, in Jesus Name, Amen
This fits surprisingly closely with a word I had in 2005 at this link:
.
http://www.propheciesfortoday.uk.com/listC.php?id=82
.
This states that God will use a flood of deception to reveal the true state of much of the USA’s (and western worlds) church and its money orientation.
Tony : Pullease!!!
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” ( John 1:1) Here it is made clear that Jesus is God.That is in every translation of the Bible which I have. The Word of God, unless you use the New World Translation in which several deliberate changes are made, including the above verse, to accommodate the beliefs of the Watchtower Soc (J.W.) which have changed several times.
John14:9 “Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you do not know me Phillip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say “Show us the father”? (10) Do you not believe that I am in the father and the Father in me?..”
What of the Holy Spirit? ,” The Counsellor, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name..” (John 14:26) Is He not God in us? The one who teaches us all things? Is He not God? .I am not going to waste any time gathering scriptures . Anyone can do that for themselves and ‘do the maths’ Three persons, ONE GOD. The Holy Trinity – Three In One. Could it be plainer? That is no invention , but you did that idea from someone else did you not? You are not reading the scriptures for yourself and cannot be a christian if you deny basic doctrine (truth).
And then you leave out what comes further down in the chapter.
The first Apostles did not promote a three in one doctrine. It is not found in the scriptures.
To make a statement that only those that agree with your doctrine, that is no more than a tradition of men that came way after the Gospels were written, Can be Christian is not correct.
To be a Christian is to be in Christ. Just as Christ served his Father God so we are expected to as well. To promote a doctrine that Jesus is a replacement for God is nothing more than one of the last days deceptions.
Your statement that only those that will uphold your promoted deception will be in the will of God is not only very arrogant but unsupported by scripture.
The scriptures say that God is one, at no time does it ever say that God is three in one. That is a deception and tradition of men.
Gods spirit is in Christ and Gods spirit is in us and We are in Christ etc, but that does not make us God just because Gods spirit is to be found in his redeemed.
And as for reading the scriptures, I strongly recommend that you put away all the books that others have written about the scriptures and you go back to the scriptures themselves so that you can see what the scriptures themselves say rather than what others men claim they say.
“For there are three who bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.” (1 John 5:7)
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.” (John 1:1)
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14)
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.” (John 14:10)
“I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30)
“Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.” (2 Corinthians 3:17)
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? … You have not lied to men but to God.” (Acts 5:3-4)
“Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.” (Psalm 139:7)
“… how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God …” (Hebrews 9:14)
“… no one know the things of God except the Spirit of God.” (1 Corinthians 2:11)
The very first verse specifically tells us that the Holy Spirit is Lord Himself. The next verse then tells us that the Holy Spirit is God Himself when Peter is telling Ananias that he has lied to God when he had just lied to the Holy Spirit!
These two verses, when you put them right next to one another, are literally telling us that the Holy Spirit is both God and Lord Himself – just like God the Father and Jesus Christ are both God and Lord Themselves.
This now perfectly completes the Trinity – showing that we are now dealing with one God, but one God in three, separate and distinct Persons – God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
The third verse above on the Holy Spirit is showing that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, which means that He is everywhere at all times. Only God has this kind of ability. This is just one more piece of Scriptural evidence that the Holy Spirit has all of the divine attributes and abilities of God Himself and as such, is God and Lord Himself.
Well lets take those verses and then put them in the context of the passage that it comes from. Or do you think no one actually does that sort of thing to check up on the claims?
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
The distinction between the Father and Son is obvious so lets look at the other verse you presented.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So Jesus is identified as the word of God, his rank and title and position in his preincarnate form, but again a clear distinction is made between the Father and the Son.
Is it not amazing what you pick up when a verse is taken in the light of the full context in which it is given. So lets look at another one.
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Well goodness me, look at that Jesus even gives us information on how to relate to his Father and how to relate to Himself and what he will do for us on our behalf because he will be returning to the Father.
Is it not amazing what you can pick up when looking at the full context of the verse as opposed to just a verse taken out of context.
Tell me, just how are you going to come before the Father in the name of Jesus in prayer if the Father is Jesus? Not going to happen is it so are you going to be telling us next that the Father sits on the right hand of the Son instead of the Son sitting on the right hand of the Father.
The doctrine of the trinity states that there is one God who is one in essence or substance, but three in personality. This does not mean three independent Gods existing as one, but three Persons who are co-equal, co-eternal, inseparable, interdependent, and eternally united in one absolute Divine Essence and Being.
Typically, the words triunity and trinity are used to help us express a doctrine that is scriptural, though replete with difficulties for the human mind. Again, it needs to be emphasized that this is a doctrine that is not explicitly stated either in the Old or New Testaments, but it is implicit in both. Note the following points:
(1) Evangelical Christianity has believed in the doctrine of the Trinity, Triunity, or the Triune Godhead because of the teaching of the Bible as a whole (Old and New Testaments) and not because of one or two particular passages.
The whole of Scripture gives testimony to this doctrine.
(2) There are many specific passages which teach us there are three distinct Persons who possess deity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, but the Bible also teaches us with equal emphasis that there is but one true God or one Divine Essence or Substance and Being.
(3) Taking the whole of Scripture, one can see that there is stress on: (a) the unity of God, one Divine Being and Essence, and (b) on the diversity of God in this unity, three Persons identified as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It speaks of these Persons in such a way that it ascribes absolute undiminished deity and personality to each while stressing that there is but one God in divine substance. It is the doctrine of the trinity that harmonizes and explains these two thrusts of Scripture—oneness in three personalities.
When we see that the Bible teaches these three things: (a) there is but one God, (b) that the Father, Son, and Spirit are each God, and (c) that each is set forth as distinct Persons, we have enunciated the doctrine of the Triunity of God.
Scriptures Demonstrating
God, Who is One, is Also Three
Old Testament Scriptures
While there is no explicit statement in the Old Testament affirming the Triunity, we can confidently say that the Old Testament not only allows for the Triunity, but also implies that God is a triune Being in a number of ways:
(1) The name Elohim, translated God, is the plural form of El. While this is what is called a plural of plenitude pointing to the power and majesty of God, it certainly allows for the New Testament revelation of the Triunity of God.
(2) There are many instances where God uses the plural pronoun to describe Himself (see Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8).
(3) In the creation account, both God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are seen in the work of creation. It is stated that God created heaven and earth (Gen. 1:1), but that it was the Holy Spirit who moved over the earth to infuse it with life in the sense of protecting and participating in the work of creation (Gen. 1:2).
(4) Writing about the Messiah, Isaiah reveals Him to be equal with God, calling Him the “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father” (Isa. 9:6).
(5) Several passages reveal a distinction of Persons within the Godhead.
In Psalm 110:1, David demonstrates there is a distinction of Persons between “LORD,” the one speaking, and the one addressed called by David, “my Lord.” David was indicating the Messiah was no ordinary king, but his own Lord, Adoni (my Lord), one who was God Himself. So God the first Person addresses God the second Person. This is precisely Peter’s point when He quotes this Psalm to show the resurrection of the Messiah was anticipated in the Old Testament.
The Redeemer (who must be divine, Isa. 7:14; 9:6) is distinguished from the Lord (Isa. 59:20).
The Lord is distinguished from the Lord in Hosea 1:6-7. The one speaking here is Yahweh, the Lord, yet, note the statement in verse 7, “I will have compassion … and deliver them by the Lord their God.”
The Spirit is distinguished from the Lord in a number of passages (Isa. 48:16; 59:21; 63:9-10).
(6) In the Messianic prophecy of Isaiah 7:14, God made it clear that the One who would be born of the virgin would also be Immanuel, God with us.
(7) Two other passages which imply the Trinity are Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1. In Isaiah 48:16 all three Persons are mentioned and yet seen as distinct from each other. See also Gen. 22:15-16.
New Testament Scriptures
The case for the Triunity of God is even stronger in the New Testament. Here it can be unequivocally demonstrated the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Furthermore, the New Testament teaches us that these three names are not synonymous, but speak of three distinct and equal Persons.
(1) The Father is called God (John 6:27; 20:17; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 2:11; 1 Pet. 1:2).
(2) Jesus Christ, the Son is declared to be God. His deity is proven by the divine names given to Him, by His works that only God could do (upholding all things, Col. 1:17; creation, Col. 1:16, John 1:3; and future judgment, John 5:27), by His divine attributes (eternality, John 17:5; omnipresence, Matt. 28:20; omnipotence, Heb. 1:3; omniscience, Matt. 9:4), and by explicit statements declaring His deity (John 1:1; 20:28; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8).
(3) The Holy Spirit is recognized as God. By comparing Peter’s comments in Acts 5:3 and 4, we see that in lying to the Holy Spirit (vs. 3), Ananias was lying to God (vs. 4). He has the attributes which only God can possess like omniscience (1 Cor. 2:10) and omnipresence (1 Cor. 6:19), and He regenerates people to new life (John 3:5-6, 8; Tit. 3:5), which must of necessity be a work of God for only God has the power of life. Finally, His deity is evident by the divine names used for the Spirit as “the Spirit of our God,” (1 Cor. 6:11), which should be understood as “the Spirit, who is our God.”
Ryrie writes: “Matthew 28:19 best states both the oneness and threeness by associating equally the three Persons and uniting them in one singular name. Other passages like Matthew 3:16-17 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 associate equally the three Persons but do not contain the strong emphasis on unity as does Matthew 28:19.”18
The New Bible Dictionary, adds to this the following evidence:
The evidence of the NT writings, apart from the Gospels, is sufficient to show that Christ had instructed his disciples on this doctrine to a greater extent than is recorded by any of the four Evangelists. They whole-heartedly proclaim the doctrine of the Trinity as the threefold source of redemption. The outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost brought the personality of the Spirit into greater prominence and at the same time shed light anew from the Spirit upon the Son. Peter, in explaining the phenomenon of Pentecost, represents it as the activity of the Trinity: ‘This Jesus … being … exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear’ (Acts 2:32-33). So the church of Pentecost was founded on the doctrine of the Trinity.
In 1 Corinthians there is mention of the gifts of the Spirit, the varieties of service for the same Lord and the inspiration of the same God for the work (1 Cor. 12:4-6).
Peter traces salvation to the same triunal source: ‘destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ’ (1 Pet. 1:2). The apostolic benediction: ‘The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all’ (2 Cor. 13:14), not only sums up the apostolic teaching, but interprets the deeper meaning of the Trinity in Christian experience, the saving grace of the Son giving access to the love of the Father and to the communion of the Spirit.
What is amazing, however, is that this confession of God as One in Three took place without struggle and without controversy by a people indoctrinated for centuries in the faith of the one God, and that in entering the Christian church they were not conscious of any break with their ancient faith.19
From the above evidence, it should be clear that the Scripture teaches God is one and three.
Difficulties With the
Trinity Considered and Answered
The Meaning of “Only-begotten”
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
In John 1:18, the King James Version has huios, “Son,” in place of theos, “God,” and reads, “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
Because to our mind the words “only begotten” suggest birth or beginning, some have tried to take the use of this designation of Jesus Christ to mean that Christ had a beginning, that He only became the Son of God. Such an understanding denies His eternality and also the concept of the trinity. So what does John mean by the term “only begotten?”
“Only begotten” is the Greek monogenes, a compound of monos, used as an adjective or adverb meaning “alone, only.” Kittel writes: “In compounds with genes, adverbs describe the nature rather than the source of derivation (emphasis mine). Hence monogenes is used for the only child. More generally it means ‘unique’ or ‘incomparable.’”20 In the New Testament the term occurs only in Luke, John, and Hebrews, but an instructive use is found for us in Hebrews 11:17 where it is used of Isaac as the monogenes of Abraham. Isaac was not the only Son of the Patriarch, but he was the unique son of the promise of God. The emphasis is not on derivation but on his uniqueness and special place in the heart of Abraham.
Vine has an excellent summary of the use of monogenes in John 1:14 and 18:
With reference to Christ, the phrase “the only begotten from the Father,” John 1:14, R.V. (see also the marg.), indicates that as the Son of God He was the sole representative of the Being and character of the One who sent Him. In the original the definite article is omitted both before “only begotten” and before “Father,” and its absence in each case serves to lay stress upon the characteristics referred to in the terms used. The Apostle’s object is to demonstrate what sort of glory it was that he and his fellow Apostles had seen. That he is not merely making a comparison with earthly relationships is indicated by para, “from.” The glory was that of a unique relationship and the word “begotten” does not imply a beginning of His Sonship. It suggests relationship indeed, but must be distinguished from generation as applied to man.
We can only rightly understand the term “the only begotten” when used of the Son, in the sense of unoriginated relationship. “The begetting is not an event of time, however remote, but a fact irrespective of time. The Christ did not become, but necessarily and eternally is the Son. He, a Person, possesses every attribute of pure Godhood. This necessitates eternity, absolute being; in this respect He is not ‘after’ the Father” (Moule).
In John 1:18 the clause “The Only Begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father,” expresses both His eternal union with the Father in the Godhead and the ineffable intimacy and love between them, the Son sharing all the Father’s counsels and enjoying all His affections. Another reading is monogenes Theos, ‘God only-begotten.’ In John 3:16 the statement, “God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son,” must not be taken to mean that Christ became the Only Begotten Son by Incarnation. The value and the greatness of the gift lay in the Sonship of Him who was given. His Sonship was not the effect of His being given. In John 3:18 the phrase “the Name of the Only Begotten Son of God” lays stress upon the full revelation of God’s character and will, His love and grace, as conveyed in the Name of One who, being in a unique relationship to Him, was provided by Him as the Object of faith. In 1 John 4:9 the statement “God hath sent His Only Begotten Son into the world” does not mean that God sent out into the world one who at His birth in Bethlehem had become His Son. Cp. the parallel statement, “God sent forth the Spirit of His Son,” Gal. 4:6, R.V., which could not mean that God sent forth One who became His Spirit when He sent Him.21
Conclusion
The doctrine of the trinity is truly beyond human comprehension or the limits of our finite minds, but it is nevertheless a vital truth of the Bible. It is a doctrine that is closely connected to other key doctrines like the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. In fact, our salvation is rooted in the mysterious nature of the Godhead who coexists as three distinct Persons all of whom are involved in our salvation in all its aspects, past, present, and future. It encompasses everything we know and practice as Christians—our sanctification, our fellowship, our prayer life, our Bible study, or our corporate worship. That this is true and a precious truth for us to rest in is evident in Paul’s closing benediction in 2 Corinthians 13:14 and in Peter’s salutation and doxology in 1 Peter 1:1-5.
2 Cor. 13:14. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
1 Peter 1:1-5. Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
May the Lord bless you in your study of His precious Word and in your walk with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
1 Charles C. Ryrie, A Survey of Bible Doctrine, Moody Press, Chicago, 1972, p. 29.
2 Walter Martin, Essential Christianity, Vision House, Santa Anna, 1975, p. 21
3 Encyclopedia of 7700 Illustrations, Assurance Publishers, p. 504.
4 Kenneth Boa, Unraveling the Big Questions About God, Lamplighter Books, p. 12.
5 The Bible Knowledge Commentary, NT, John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, Editors, Victor Books, Electronic Media.
6 Ibid., p. 16.
7 Ibid., p. 42.
8 Charles C. Ryrie, Basic Theology, Victor Books, Wheaton, IL, 1987, electronic media.
9 Earle E. Cairns, Christianity Through the Centuries, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, 1967, p. 122.
10 Martin, pp. 22-23.
11 Cairns, p. 141.
12 Loraine Boettner, Studies in Theology, The Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1976, pp. 80-81.
13 Ryrie, electronic media quoting B.B. Warfield, “Trinity,” The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, James Orr, ed., Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1930, 5:3012.
14 Boa, p. 46.
15 R. A. Finlayson, “Trinity,” The New Bible Dictionary, Eerdmans, p. 1300.
16 The New Bible Dictionary, Electronic Media, Logos Bible Software.
17 Paul Enns, The Moody Handbook of Theology, Moody Press, p. 199.
18 Ryrie, Basic Theology, p. 53.
19 The New Bible Dictionary, Wheaton, Illinois: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 1962, Electronic Media, Logos Bible Software.
20 Kittel, Gerhard, and Friedrich, Gerhard, Editors, The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Abridged in One Volume, Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1985.
21 W. E. Vine, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, (Grand Rapids, MI: Fleming H. Revell, 1981, pp. 140-141.
22 Norman L. Geisler, The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament edition, John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, Editors, Victor Books, p. 677.
23 The New Bible Dictionary, Logos Research Systems, Electronic Media.
GOD has exalted HIS Word above HIS name
As the psalmist turns to the temple to worship he writes in
Psalm 138:2: “For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.”
God’s Word is His communication, His promise, the revelation of Himself to His people. It is to be a lamp to our feet in a dark and fallen world, without it we would have no way to know God or how to do God’s will. Throughout scripture we have a consistent theme of the dichotomy of light versus darkness. The world we live in is darkness reserved for judgment. John the apostle in 1 John 1:5 tells us God is light. Light is God’s very nature, it represents to us Holiness and perfection. This is why we often read that a physical manifestation of God ‘s glory is light or fire. Sin is associated with darkness and judgment. It implies imperfection, and principally ignorance, sinfulness, and misery.
The Psalmist asks Ps 119:9 “How can a young man cleanse his way? He answers, “By taking heed according to Your Word. Just a few more verses later v:11 “Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You.” God’s word keeps us from sin and keeps us on his path, as the Word is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path (Ps.119:105) in a dark world.
Ps. 43:3 Oh, send out Your light and Your truth! Let them lead me. s one reads the psalms one grasps the importance of the Word to the the people of Israel, especially the leaders.
To disregard God’s Word that is holy, pure and absolutely true is to defame God’s name and character. It is to bring ruin upon our walk. So it becomes the main focus point in our daily walk with Christ.
Jesus in his high priestly prayer, (the only one we have details on) says in John 17:6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.” Those who want to follow Jesus live by His Word, which separates them from the World, and sets them apart for His service. Jesus said that the words he spoke were not just his but the Fathers also. “For You have magnified Your word above all Your name” (Ps. 138:2). If Jesus manifested God’s name, His nature to the people, how much more important is his Word that is exalted even above his name?
God has delivered to us all that is needed. The Bible says the Scripture is sufficient in all matters for the believers spiritual life, there is no need to go anywhere else to learn how to be spiritual. “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” (2 Tim.3:16-17). The doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and its priority in all matters of faith is one of the core teachings of the Christian faith.
This inspiration has to do with the words; the Words of Scripture came from God; they were God breathed through the human agency of men. They as imperfect men did not affect the accuracy or infallibility of the Book. The Bible is as accurate and infallible as if God had written it without any human agent. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Pet.1:21). God has never left us without a witness; He commanded those who he revealed himself to, prophets, judges or Kings to write down what he has said. The writings were God breathed; He purposely moved the prophets and scribes to write the words down. So it was not by there own initiative, they were not the source but God instructed them and it became God’s communication to mankind.
The word for Scripture in Greek is “graphe” it means “a writing,” or “anything written.” The expression “Holy Scriptures” is found twice in the New Testament: “Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the Holy Scriptures” Rom.1:2. “And that from a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus” 2 Tim.3:15. Wherever we see the word Scriptures it is referring to the Divine writings. The Bible does not contain the Word of God; it is the Word of God.
In a day of various opinions The Bible stands as an absolute reliable source for us to know exactly what God wants us to know, believe, and act in our the spiritual life. Christ is the focus and the theme of all the Scripture, John 5:39.
Peter recalls 2 Pet. 1:18-21 “And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
Peter heard the audible voice of God and saw Jesus transformed as showed the disciples the power of the future Kingdom and who He really was by revealing his glory. Peter did not exalt his experience over the Scripture; his experience validated the Scripture. He showed us that we are to make Scripture the rule of our experience. The light that shines in a dark place is our world. We are to take heed to the Word from God as a light for us in the world until the “day” dawns (v.19). That day will establish everlasting righteousness, Christ’s kingdom come to the earth. At that time the “morning star” will arise in our hearts and a new day, the messianic age will begin. This refers to Jesus, as the “ bright morning star” (Num. 24:17; Rev. 22:16), the one whose presence will illuminate any uncertainty that we now experience. At that time our faith will become sight, and we will know even as we are now known (1 Cor.13:12). But until Jesus comes, our first and final authority must always be the sacred Scriptures, which is a lamp unto our feet.
It is written!
Knowing, trusting and obeying God’s Word is our shield to falsehood and the temptations of the world. Christ quoted the Bible as his ultimate authority and witness and it is to be our ultimate authority and guide to living. The Bible, according to the way Christ and the apostles used it, sets the standard for us, providing us with everyday guidance. So why have so many put the Scriptures into a second place next to the Spirit? Why is the word read less and studied in the churches than ever before? The answer is one that you may not like, Jesus said in John 14:24 “He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.” Jesus wants His words to consistently be first in our life, having the highest priority or we will not be led by the Spirit into truth, but be lead away.
Jesus prayed in John 17:17 “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.” God changes the believers life through the Word, it is a steady work of the Holy Spirit as we walk, yield and obey, He fills us with the Spirit. There is no impartation that will change us like this. The Word is Spirit, and it affect us by our understanding it so we can be changed into the people Christ wants us to be.Ps.119:130 “The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple.”
Christians that insist on the Holy Scriptures as their only most trusted source of spiritual knowledge are mocked as unspiritual and some consider them to be in idolatry of a book. Move with the spirit is cry of the experientialists. But to have a spirit divorced from the word proves it cannot be the same Holy Spirit who wrote the Word.
Christians since the Scriptures were written have always faithfully reverenced the Holy Scriptures as the VOICE of GOD. If we’re practicing bibliolatry were in good company with David, Moses, Jesus and the apostles.
Only Christians who want to know God by his HOLY WRITTEN WORD, and enter by faith will hear from him. Those who want to know God without it, by any other means are not following the Holy Spirits direction and are only fooling themselves. God does not speak to us new doctrine, it is complete and written down. We are to get in the Word, and let the Word dwell in us, as Jesus said whoever does these sayings of mine will build their house on the rock. These saying are written by the apostles to the church. They are our sure foundation.
Listen to the Psalmist who wrote, “My soul faints for Your salvation, But I hope in Your word. My eyes fail from searching Your word, Saying, “When will You comfort me?” (Ps. 119:81-82) Ps. 119:134-136 “Redeem me from the oppression of man, That I may keep Your precepts. Make Your face shine upon Your servant, And teach me Your statutes. Rivers of water run down from my eyes, Because men do not keep Your law.”
To put the Word as first is to fear God Himself. Isa. 66:2. “But on this one will I look: on him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My Word.” Isa. 66:5 “Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at His word” Ezra 10:3 “tremble at the commandment of our God.” Do we do this today? To honor God’s Word is to honor the God of the Word; He makes no distinction. “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man’s all” (Eccl. 12:13). To fear God is to respect His Word above all else. “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” But for those who do not have this respect The Lord says in Prov.13:13-14 “He who despises the word will be destroyed, But he who fears the commandment will be rewarded.”
Things are changing all over the world, and they are also changing inside the church. There are those who want to hear something new from God, showing their disrespect for what he has already spoken.
Those who want to hear the fresh word of God need to look for it where it has always been “For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth. (2 Pt. 1:12) The word which is eternal continues to be the same eternal absolute truth to all generations. We may change; our culture our society may change, it has not, the Word continues to have the same power and life to make us new creations.
The Bible states without faith it is impossible to please God, yet the Bible also tells us faith comes from hearing, and hearing from the Word of God. Our faith cannot be divorced from the Scriptures, to honor and practice what God has said is to respect the God who said it. Our faith is developed by learning the doctrines by applying them to our life. Scripture can be divided into numerous subjects with its teaching spread throughout the Word. We are to gather the scriptures on subjects to know what God has said and train ourselves in His worldview, so we would be in the world not of it. The Bible states us if you do not continue in the doctrine of Christ you are not his. “Whosoever abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, HATH NOT GOD. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” (2 John 1:9) That’s how important doctrine is, and the doctrine of Christ can only be found in the word of God, the Bible. We need to be in the Word of God.
The Word is the like the lines on the highway that keep us driving correctly. But we need to listen to it. Many of us have become frustrated because we do not see the results that others have, God is not a respecter of persons, he wants you to be fruitful. To be in Christ and be fruitful we must abide in His teachings, walk in the Spirit. Jesus said in John 15:1-5 “I am the true vine” “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.” I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.” John goes on writing in v:10-11 “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.”
The commandments are all his instructions found in His Word (He is not just talking about 10). The abiding factor is done by the Holy Spirit who is in us, when we yield to him.
As Jesus himself said in John 15:26: “when the Helper comes… He will testify of Me [the truth].” I John 2:27 “But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.” He (the Holy Spirit) is to give us understanding to comprehend the truth: knowing Scripture. The Word of God convicts, saves, and changes us daily.
The Scripture does tell us what the church will be like in the end of time, they will no longer adhere to sound doctrine, they will heap up teachers for themselves. “Now the Spirit speaks expressly that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1). They will hear other spirits who teach them, leading them away from the Word of God. They will think they are hearing from God when in fact it is the enemy of their soul. We seem to have a built in tendency to wander away from what is right and good for us. We also have an enemy who is constantly trying to remove us from being in the truth and doing the will of God.
Because the Israel did not obey God’s word, he needed to send prophets. The prophet Jeremiah was frustrated because of the peoples unwillingness to hear God’s word “To whom shall I speak and give warning, That they may hear? Indeed their ear is uncircumcised, And they cannot give heed. Behold, the word of the LORD is a reproach to them; They have no delight in it. Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD” (6:10-11) Jeremiah had a godly anger against the people that were now unable to hear what God had to say. They had listened to the false prophets messages for so long that they were unable to hear what God really had to say. They could no longer listen to the voice of God because they were trained to hear another’s voice.
When Jesus was among the people he asked and answered his own question. “Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word”(John 8:43)
Matt. 11:15-17 “He who has ears to hear, let him hear! But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions, and saying: ‘We played the flute for you, And you did not dance; We mourned to you, And you did not lament.” Jesus is explaining to them that they were unmoved in the heart from something that should bring joy, or something that would have them grieve. They were unresponsive, cold; it was all a matter of their heart.
This generation that Jesus offered his messiahship to was more privileged than any other, He was there physically in front of them, they saw the miracles and how he cared for people, they heard His voice, but many were not moved in their innermost being to take to heart what was said and follow. At one point the Scripture says that all the people were going after him but when the questions came up the religious leaders stepped in and the people instead listened to their leaders who were not leading them to know the Word of God, but their own words.
So Jesus was justified to scold them, “Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered”(Luke 11:52).
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.” (Matt 23:13) What happened to the loving Jesus, this doesn’t sound like tolerance. Actually this was the most loving thing he could do, reproof them so they would turn. Yet today we hear do not judge what anyone says, but we see Jesus’ example of doing this all through the Scripture. Those who apostasize from the truth always come against those who stand for it.
Peter said of Paul in 2 Peter 3:15-17, “Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.” Yes ones faith can be shipwrecked by listening to those who cannot explain things and yet dress them up as a message of faith. “A Christian would love and adhere to what Jesus and the apostles said before any man. “He who loves the Lord hates everything that offends him” (W.M Cowper)
Much of the church is in denial that they have taken part in any deception. Many do not believe in any deception affecting the Church. Its as if we are behind some wall invulnerable to anything negative taking place. By thinking this they are denying Jesus’ own words who said that deception would take place from false teachers and prophets from inside the church at the end of the age (Mt.24:4-5,23-24). I know none of us like to hear this or talk about it, we want to hope that anything like this will just go away. These heresies have become like stampeding elephants inside the church, yet people act as if they are but a flea that’s barely been noticed.
When someone does not admit this they only going further into the darkness of deception, turning themselves over to the ones leading it, instead of dealing with them.
There are many who want to lead the church into new things, new ways of doing church. One can often hear we don’t need doctrine we need a fresh word, we need to hear from the spirit. To say “lets dispense of doctrine” in place of the spirit is equivalent to saying “lets get rid of truth.” For the truth is given in the doctrine of Christ. The Catholic church has already set the precedence for this by allowing their church to dictate new teachings they call sacred tradition and made it equal to written the doctrine of the apostles. The evangelicals that once were protestants have done this in even a greater way. By allowing what they call signs and wonders, miracles to have precedent over the teaching of the Word.
Listen to this story that represents the way the majority of Christians think today. R.W. Shambach tells a story of him having an evangelistic crusade and asking a woman to come up to the stage. He then told the interpreter to repeat what he says, so he states in the name of Mohammad heal her. The interpreter complained about this, he did not want to repeat this, he told him to repeat it anyway. After a bit of haggling he did so. This name did nothing; but then he prayed in the name of Jesus be healed and she miraculously was. He was asked, what if she got healed in the name of Mohammad? He replied, then I would be telling about Mohammad today, not Jesus.
What is he saying? If someone is healed in another name and he has results, that is what counts. This gives us the bankrupt mindset that miracles mean more than what Jesus said. For if he did not produce a single miracle at all, we would still be asked to believe and follow because of who he is, not for what miracle He does. Jesus actually rebuked the people on this by saying to the great crowd around him they came for the miracles and not for his teaching. Think about it?
Enemies of all reason
Jer. 23:36: “And the oracle of the LORD you shall mention no more. For every man’s word will be his oracle, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God.”
Paul admonishes us in 1 Corinthians 4:6: “that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written “do not go beyond what is written.” God makes us wise to what is written not beyond it, what is written is wisdom for living. Today’s new revelation teaching has done just as much harm to the growth of Christians than the cults, because it comes from teachers within the Church, those that many have trusted. The Bible is made to prove anything under the qualification of “the Spirit showed me” but when examined its not in the context of its original meaning. To obey God’s voice is equal to hearing it from Scripture. The sheep are to hear the voice of the shepherd who is found in the word, not in new words by those calling themselves prophets. Paul’s recommendation for our spiritual health is not exceed beyond what is written. When we do not esteem the word as our source of authority and look to something other than Scripture we become prompted by pride. This warning is given so pride will not have a chance to operate. Intentional false teaching always finds its source in pride. People do not want to submit to its original intent, so they do not seek what the actual meaning of the Scripture but conform it to what they want it to mean. They allegorize it, spiritualize it so it no longer has a literal meaning or application.
When someone says they are anointed or led by the Spirit and teach contrary to the Word in its accurate context you can be assured they are not led by His Spirit.
Is God’s Word your “lamp” and your “light” (Ps 119:105)? Does what He say settle it? Or have extra-biblical sources, personal experiences and particularly feelings become the favored components for your Bible interpretations.
The word when preached in its truth with conviction is like water flooding the desert; it will nourish the ground for life. Every personal revival begins with God’s Word as Ps. 119:25-28 David wrote “My soul clings to the dust; Revive me according to Your Word.” (Ps. 119:107, 133, 154).
Ps 19:7 “The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul” This is His Word that brings salvation to those yet in unbelief, and it Believers sanctification changing us to be like the one we are to follow, Jesus the Son of God.
Isa. 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.” Jesus said, “My words are spirit and they are life. The flesh profits nothing Notice MY WORDS.” When his close disciples saw the people leaving because of what had said was to hard to understand, He asked them will they leave also, Peter replied, where else can we go only you have the words of eternal life. Jesus himself said, “He who does not love Me does not keep My words” John 14:25. To be devoted to the Word shows our love of Christ. The Word is said to be more desirable than honey Ps.10:10. Apostates like those in the book of Hebrews could only taste the good word, they did not feed on Jesus Christ as he asked. They do not stand His gospel as Paul writes in 1 Cor.15 “hold fast that word I preached to you, by which you stand, by which you are also saved.” Somewhere along in their growth they neglected the Word and turned away from the spiritual food set on the master’s table. We cannot live on mere tasting; we are to feed on the Word as we feed on food. Just as food is digested and runs through our system to give us nourishment and life so it is with the Word of God, it is life to our spiritual life. We want to grow and be sufficient in doing spiritual works and fulfilling our ministry. In this the writer of Hebrews gives the rebuke to his own brethren “For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil” (Heb 5:12-14).
Some have been eating a word that is so far away form the truth that they need to lay the foundation again and wean on milk. It is better to do this then to continue on their current present course. They need to learn the basics all over again because of their neglect; they were not faithful in building on the foundation. It is for this same reason we put up with so much false teaching in the church, solid food is not being taught. It’s a fact that those who have a diet on milk that finally eat meat will get indigestion. It immediately makes them feel uncomfortable and bad and they are repulsed; though in the long run it would eventually do them good, if they would continue to eat it and learn to digest it. It takes time to train oneself to take it in and live it out. Jesus said “If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority” (John 7:17). Today we can know if someone speaks on their own authority or God’s by the doctrine they keep.
Heb 6:4-6 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.” They wanted to go back to Judaism to avoid persecution and temporarily reject the once and for all sacrifice.
They tasted the gift by the Holy Spirit, they heard the word, they saw the salvations, but it was not enough to move them to faith to hold Christ as dear to them as life, they did not consume Jesus but only tasted what was needed for their immediate need. Eventually they went back to Judaism rejecting the once and for all sacrifice.
Eph. 5:26-27 “that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the Word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.” Only the Church that allows itself to be washed by the Word will be cleansed and stand before the Lord. As Jesus said to Peter if you do not allow me to wash your feet you can have no part of me.
Ps 19:7 “The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul” This is His Word that brings salvation to those yet in unbelief, and it Believers sanctification changing us to be like the one we are to follow, Jesus the Son of God.
Isa. 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.” Jesus said, “My words are spirit and they are life. The flesh profits nothing Notice MY WORDS.” When his close disciples saw the people leaving because of what had said was to hard he asked them will they leave also, Peter replied, where else can we go only you have the words of eternal life. Jesus himself said, “He who does not love Me does not keep My words” John 14:25. “But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.” I Jn. 2:5. To be devoted to the Word shows our love of Christ. The Word is said to be more desirable than honey Ps.10:10. Apostates like those in the book of Hebrews could only taste the good word, they did not feed on Jesus Christ as he asked. They do not stand His gospel as Paul writes in 1 Cor.15 “hold fast that word I preached to you.” Somewhere along in their growth they neglected the Word and turned away from the spiritual food set on the master’s table. We cannot live on mere tasting; we are to feed on the Word as we feed on food. Just as food is digested and runs through our system to give us nourishment and life so it is with the Word of God, it is life to our spiritual life. We want to grow and be sufficient in doing spiritual works and fulfilling our ministry. In this the writer of Hebrews gives the rebuke to his own brethren “For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil” (Heb 5:12-14).
Some have been eating a word that is so far away form the truth that they need to lay the foundation again and wean on milk. It is better to do this then to continue on their current present course. They need to learn the basics all over again because of their neglect; they were not faithful in building on the foundation. It is for this same reason we put up with so much false teaching in the church, solid food is not being taught. It’s a fact that those who have a diet on milk that finally eat meat will get indigestion. It immediately makes them feel uncomfortable and bad and they are repulsed; though in the long run it would eventually do them good, if they would continue to eat it and learn to digest it. It takes time to train oneself to take it in and live it out. Jesus said “If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority” (John 7:17). Today we can know if someone speaks on their own authority or God’s by the doctrine thy keep.
Heb 6:4-6 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.” They wanted to go back to Judaism to avoid persecution and temporarily reject the once and for all sacrifice.
They tasted the gift by the Holy Spirit, they heard the word, they saw the salvations, but it was not enough to move them to faith to hold Christ as dear to them as life, they did not consume Jesus but only tasted what was needed for their immediate need. Eventually they went back to Judaism rejecting the once and for all sacrifice.
Eph. 5:26-27 “that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the Word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.” Only the Church that allows itself to be washed by the Word will be cleansed and stand before the Lord. As Jesus said to Peter if you do not allow me to wash your feet you can have no part of me.
We can see today’s church is in the same place Israel was numerous times, “Then the boy Samuel ministered to the LORD before Eli. And the word of the LORD was rare in those days; there was no widespread revelation.”(1 Sam. 3:1) Do we really grasp what we have in our hands today, we have the final and complete revelation of what God has spoken in our hands, people died so we can have this book. So many Bibles and too few readers! And even less who understand. I think it’s time for a change. Lets get back to what is called “the word of truth (2 Tim. 2:15), “the Scripture of Truth” (Dan.10:21), the Word of life (I Jn.1:1). When we walk in the light of His word, then we will have victory over the world. In Luke 11:28 the people blessed Jesus’ mother for bearing him He responded, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it.” Let’s all be blessed.
That was indeed a nice long edifying explanation.
Now let us all go back to what the scriptures tell us and lay hold of the actual doctrine that the first Apostles who established the church taught.
Because the doctrine of the trinity is not defined in scripture it is open to huge deviations in interpretation. It is after all just a man made doctrine that is used to try and explain the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The real problem is the introduction of the oneness doctrine that was introduced around 1914. So it is not to be considered an established part of Church doctrine. Even though it is presented as such.
The only safe way through this minefield is to go back to the very first paths as laid out in the original writings found in the New Testament. If you really trust the scriptures you will practice what they teach with out all the add ons to form the human doctrines of explanation.
No more discussion of “Trinity” back-and-forth arguments on this thread please
It is way Off Topic.
-Andrew Strom.
Hi Andrew to stick to the topic, I am taken back to the scripture in the book of Matthew where Jesus is saying, u Peter on this rock i will build my church,Jesus revered to peter and not a building where he will build his church, thanks for ur website its very interesting, how men of God concentrate on things which does not matter while congregation members do not even have food. God bless.
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? (Jer 23:29 KJV)
A person who has no money can be just as much a lover of it than the person with lots
Money really isn’t the issue. Being sold out to Jesus as your first love is the issue. Scrutinizing God’s Word of scripture for truth and purity is priority.
1Ti 6:17-19 KJV Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Deu 8:18 KJV But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH HIS COVENANT which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
Death to the usuper Church !!!.
The limbs of Christ – are members of Christ’s local Assembly !.
THE UNIVERSAL,
And Local Assemblies in The Bible,
and the separation of teaching
REGARDING THESE two entities.
LOCAL ASSEMBLY AND ITS INDEPENDENT RULE.
In Revelation.2-3rd chap,
YOU HAVE SEVEN local Assemlies,
SEVEN DISTINCT PEOPLE of GOD.
Praise as well as reprimands,
IS INDIVIDUALL to theese Local Assemblies,
They are not treated as ONE ASSEMBLY (UNIVERSAL).
In GT IS DISTINCT TWELVE PEOPLE OF GOD,
Twelve tribes of Israel;
Represented in the tabernacle and the Temple;
as TWELVE SEVEN-BRANCHED CANDLESTICK.
LIKEWISE IS SEVEN SEVEN-BRANCHED CANDLESTICK;
In NT STUDY ABOVE.
The seven-armed CANDLESTICK symbolizes,
LORD OF SEVENFOLD SPIRIT In GT,
And The seven horns of the Lamb in REVELATION.
It shows that there is,
Seven and TWELVE DISTINCT PEOPLES OF GOD,
with the FULLNESS OF GODs SPIRIT.
LORD do not allow for the Unification of THE VARIOUS ASSEMBLIES FOR A LARGE top-UNIT,
TYPE CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT, NATIONAL, DENOMINATIONS, ETC.ETC.
JESUS SAYS ABOUT PETER -
So I say to YOU -
YOU ARE A STONE,
AND ON THIS STONESS,
I will build my church.
The stone is masculine and denotes a small stone.
STONESS IS FEMENINUM and denotes a great mountain.
STONE HERE IS THE ONE JESUS DESCRIBED THUS -
FLESH AND BLOOD CAN NOT DISCLOSE this for you,
BUT,
“MY FATHER who is in the Heavens”.
WE HAVE HERE ON THE BASIS of the ASSEMBLY,
Two Personalities,
Stone and Stoness.
They are in Comparison such as: -
“A SMALL EMBRYO / stone in the womb,
AND THE WOMB itself / STONESS “.
The Great Harlot is the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.
THE OTHER SO CALLED CHURCHES IN THE WORLD ARO HER CHILDREN.
FORWARD -
WHY areTHEY whores.
(CHURCH)/ASSEMBLY comes from THE WORD “EKLESIA”.
“EK” = “OUT”. “KLESIA” = “CALLED”.
They are called out of WHAT,
yes THE WORLD.
‘WORLD’ IS IN THE BIBLE “COSMOS”.
The Word COSMOS HAVE the BASIC MEANING -
“A scheme or arrangement in the form of systems”.
ALL ORGANISED CHURCHES,
LEGAL PERSONALITY IN THE WORLD,
Belong to that MENTAL SYSTEMS.
JESUS SAYS -
“My kingdom does NOT BELONG THIS WORLD (COSMOS),
Because the Kingdom of God is within you “.
Kingdom of God is IN THE HOLY GHOST,
WHO LIVES IN LIVING STONES / PEOPLE WITH GODS indwelling Spirit /
COME in the flesh.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO with MENTAL SYSTEMS,
Or organize FORMS OF DOING BUSINESS,
BUT -
“The Assembly is a living organism”,
“Not an organization”.
There can only be ONE LOCAL ASSEBMLY,
in the Least/Smallest Comunity of Political Rule,
if there are TWO,
at least one of them is a Fake even if bouth of them can BEE.
Arne Strand. Sweden.
As a general rule the false church will be the one that has the greatest following and prestige among men.
The world will always support its own!
Just remember that Jesus fed the 5 thousand and had them all eating out the palm of his hand. But because he only said what the Father instructed and he did not compromise the situation came about at the end of the day that he only had the 12 left.
Kind of makes you understand why the prophets of the old testament spent most of their time alone and away from the crowds. The world did not want them
I agree wholeheartedly with your last two statements Tony.
GOD will indeed humble those who exalt themselves.
GOD has exalted HIS Word above HIS name
As the psalmist turns to worship he writes in
Psalm 138:2: “For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.” God’s Word is His communication, His promise, the revelation of Himself to His people. It is to be a lamp to our feet in a dark and fallen world, without it we would have no way to know God or how to do God’s will.
Throughout scripture we have a consistent theme of the dichotomy of light versus darkness. The world we live in is darkness reserved for judgment. John the apostle in 1 John 1:5 tells us God is light. Light is God’s very nature, it represents to us Holiness and perfection. This is why we often read that a physical manifestation of God ‘s glory is light or fire. Sin is associated with darkness and judgment. It implies imperfection, and principally ignorance, sinfulness, and misery.
The Psalmist asks Ps 119:9 “How can a young man cleanse his way? He answers, “By taking heed according to Your Word. Just a few more verses later v:11 “Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You.” God’s word keeps us from sin and keeps us on his path, as the Word is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path (Ps.119:105) in a dark world.
Ps. 43:3 Oh, send out Your light and Your truth! Let them lead me. As one reads the psalms one grasps the importance of the Word to the the people of Israel, especially the leaders.
To disregard God’s Word that is holy, pure and absolutely true is to defame God’s name and character. It is to bring ruin upon our walk. So it becomes the main focus point in our daily walk with Christ.
Wayne, why not get your own website instead of using Andrews for your “soap box”? People are getting tired of your persistent rants, don’t you see that? You’re trying to be their Holy Spirit by telling them what is right and wrong. That’s not your job, it’s God’s job.
I am going to be bold in what I say. I agree with imredeemed. I came to this website to be with others that are going through some of the same things as me, and also to be encouraged and to give testimony unto our Lord. To be renewed in HIS SPIRIT while pressing on and growing closer unto HIM. I have posted several times that this website should be used to Glorify the Lord and to Give testimony unto HIM. What I have found is that while there are true servants of the Lord doing that, there are also others that are working in the flesh and causing a very distracted and unharmonious joining of God’s children. Most of us want a unified relationship of the love and mercy that the Lord has given his people. But I have found that there are those that want to snip at others, be very opinionated and that want to copy and paste other writers without giving the true writer the credit. These people are full of self and have not died to self. They are proclaiming the words of the Lord yet not living them out themselves.
I have come to not enjoy this website because though I love reading testimonies and the glorious work and miracles that the Lord has and is doing, I am also seeing and reading to much garbage and too much world and to much debate. Most of us left the world and church for these reasons and this website has become a pool of murkiness in some aspects.
When one writes an article and Andrew asks for comments, we should not be giving our opinions and then attack someone else for theirs. We should be commenting on glorifying the Lord and giving testimony about the things we are coming out of and seeing the Lord as our Savior. Many of the Ruth’s testimonies are of the Lord. They glorify HIM and yet encourage the rest to reflect on their own lives to see what wonderful things the Lord is doing with them. It even gives one a choice and chance to go out and help someone in the grocery store or just be kind in the parking lot. I have even sought after handicapped patrons to help them put groceries in their car or to just be kind and talk with them.
This website should be used for those types of writings and also the miracles of health or just praising the Lord. Instead we have been focusing on self and seeing how much we can write and Jesus was not an opinionated man– meaning HE DIDN’T give HIS opinions. He spoke only what the Lord (our Father) showed HIM. What HE HEARD HIS FATHER SAY.
This website has become like any other blogging device. Let’s speak our peace, give our comments, and tackle what WE want to say so others can go YEA or NAY.
Maybe many of us are going through things that we don’t understand because we have not laid “self” on the alter. How about let’s keep our views to many things to ourselves and not copy , paste and present things as our own and I have found SEVERAL places where the person has quoted scripture and twisted it to their own views. THIS IS WHY MANY OF US THE CHURCH . among other reasons. I just read a Derek Prince article and things he said about the tongue is so true. We need to put a muzzle on the mouth . God gave us one tongue one mouth and we need to realize we are to use it for HIS GLORY. NOT ours. I am saying this in loving kindness yet truth. Let us not pollute a website that was started for HIS GOOD. (our Lord’s) Let it not become a website of “self” with sprinkles of praising the Lord and making it look like it is all about HIM, when in fact it really might not be.
May each of you be blessed and may you seek HIS desires for you.
i am sick of the anti-biblical unbiblical and extrabiblical nonsense so prevalent in the church today.
People are going to hell because of this nonsense being spread around and much of that nonsense is being spread by many on these sites
The Word of God is sufficient for our salvation ALL else is vanity.
I hear you Nicole, I think the Lord is using this – it’s continuation – to do a sanctifying work in those of us who see it for what it is…
We need to learn to share what the Lord has done in our lives even in the face of rebuttal and opposition from those who oppose themselves…
Once we come to a place where we can share the truth of what God has done in our lives, get slapped in the face and turn around and bless those who slap us in the face then we will be truly free and bold to share what the Lord has done in our lives before anyone and also learn what it means to love our enemies and do good to them that hate us…
I’ve decided to take on this process on this forum and to keep sharing what the Lord is doing in my life come what may…
Love in the Lord, Andrew
Wayne, so if you’re so sick of it, why keep coming back? Why not get your own website? Just because you believe something to be the absolute truth does not make it truth. And even if you do present truth, your attitude and arrogance speak louder than your words. If you don’t want a website, why not just exchange emails with these others that wish to argue with you and leave the forum for its intended purpose as Nicole said.
Your acceptance and active promotion of false religion is absolutely appalling.
Why are you people overwhelming this ‘christian” website with your false religion and your false gods?
FALSE RELIGION IS EVERYWHERE AND SHOULD NOT BE PERMITTED TO DOMINATE AS IT IS WITHOUT SOME EFFORT TO PRESENT THE TRUTH BEING MADE.
UNTIL PREVENTED FROM DOING SO BY THE FALSE CHURCH THE TRULY BORN AGAIN MUST PERSEVERE WITH EFFORTS TO SHARE THE TRUTH AT ALL COST.
I AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO SO WITH THE SINCERE HOPE THAT SOME MAY TURN TO GOD BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE FOR THEM
I am compassionate enough to be very keen to see some people repent of their false religion and turn to the one TRUE God.
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows (Luke 12:47).
God says to
“Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers” (1 Timothy 4:16) and “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free” (John 8:31, 32).
Therefore, we must strive for the truth as revealed in Scripture and resist all other teachings. Our eternal destiny depends on our faithfulness to HIS Word.
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).
Paul’s words to Timothy reveal an interesting truth for handling the Word of Truth—it requires work. A workman applies his best effort to his trade on a regular basis. Interpreting the bible correctly is not an accident; it is a deliberate effort and the result of on-going application and study. Since Paul expected Timothy to be a workman in this effort, we should expect no different requirement for us today.
Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful (Joshua 1:8).
The work of interpreting the Word of God is important work. It requires continuous study and meditation. It should become a part of our lifestyle. This type of life builds up and transforms leading to maturity in Christ. However, just as correctly handling the Word leads to maturity, incorrectly handling the Word leads to false teaching, deception and ultimately destruction.
Do not add to his words, or he [God] will rebuke you and prove you a liar (Proverbs 30:6).
No matter how sure you are about what God meant by a particular verse, it is very dangerous to add your opinion to His divine wisdom. Few things could be worse than the rebuke of God, and nothing could be worse than being proved a liar by God. Not only does the incorrect use of the Word of God have serious consequences for the careless teacher, it can also be detrimental for others.
My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children (Hosea 4:6).
It is no wonder God gives such grave warnings against incorrectly handling His Word since lives are at stake. In the closing words of the book of Revelation, the Lord issues one of the most direct warnings of the entire Bible:
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book (Revelation 22:18, 19).
This same warning was first issued in the Old Testament when God opened the law to Israel:
Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you (Deuteronomy 4:2).
Yes the scriptures do say that we are to study to show ourselves approved. But not all doctrine that is considered established by the modern church is actually in line with what the scriptures actually teach.
But for some reason when a doctrine is brought up for discussion an event always occurs where the word of God gets used as a god-stick to beat the fellow servants into submission by those that consider themselves appointed to protect the misconceptions.
Hence corrections never end up getting made and the flock scatters leaving only the wolves to praise each others tails as the bask in a body of their own making.
Brainwashing through rote repetition is another method often used by those who would usurp the place of the Holy Spirit in the lives of others to impose their will and their version of the truth, a favourite method of the false Babylon church and dead religion – let the reader beware!
…in other words, this is a spirit operating that is not the Holy Spirit.
If you are referring to me when you say “Your acceptance and active promotion of false religion is absolutely appalling” you need not be appalled. I attended a building for over 30 years with a pastor who was as persistent and arrogant as you. I praise God that He led us out of that “religion” and into true relationship with Him. You see when you have true relationship with Jesus, the Holy Spirit is your teacher as you read the word, not a man. People such as you tend to forget that. From your rantings I have gathered that the religion you insist on cramming down our throats is the same “false religion” that I came out of. I thank God that he has kept my heart pliable and teachable, because I surely do not have it all figured out yet, but the Holy Spirit continues His work in me daily. How about you, Wayne? It sounds like you have it all figured out, and if Jesus himself walked up to you and presented something outside your teachings, you would even disregard Him. How sad. You would do well to read and truly meditate on some of the teachings on this website, because I believe they are what the true church needs to hear.
YES INDEED WATCHFUL – Demonic Spirits have overrun the church as has doctrines of demons leading people to believe they have a personal revelation which is superior to that of the Word of God.
The Holy Spirit WILL ALWAYS lead us to the TRUTH of the Word of God. This is the way to discern which spirit is operating.
Satanic spirits, however, lead away from the BIBLE to doctrines of Demons.
The HOLY SPIRIT will ALWAYS lead us to a life which is consistent with the Word of GOD.
If YOUR CHURCH IS TEACHING DOCTRINES OF DEMONS THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT YOU MUST COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING AND HE WILL RECEIVE YOU AND BE A FATHER TO YOU.
“The Holy Spirit WILL ALWAYS lead us to the TRUTH of the Word of God. This is the way to discern which spirit is operating.”
Wayne, is this the scripture you are referring to here by that comment?
Jhn 16:13 “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”
It might also be good to balance out the point you are making about the bible, by thinking about what Jesus meant when He said, “My sheep know my voice.”
Knowledge puffs up, but agape love edifies. If any man thinks that he knows any thing, he knows nothing yet, as he ought to know. However, if any man love God, the same is known of Him. (1st Corinthians 8 verse 1 thru 3.)
And though I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not Love, I am nothing. (1st Corinthians 13 verse 2.)
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
If we would be perfect then the Love of the perfect Son of God would abide, for:
4Love (Agape) suffers long, and is kind; love envies not; love vaunts not itself, love (agape) is not puffed up, 5 agape does not behave itself unseemly, love seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, love thinks no evil; 6Rejoices not in iniquity, but love (agape) rejoices in the truth; 7Love (agape) bears all things, love believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8Agapie never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
13And now abides faith, hope, love (agape) , these three; but the greatest of these is agape.
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. (Romans 13 verse 8) NASB
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (Romans 13 verse 10) NASB
For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Galatians 5 verse 14) NASB
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. (James 2 verse 8) NASB
I love you Wayne and I forgive you for every word which you’ve spoken against me in this forum to date and in advance for any words which you might speak against me in this forum in the future, I am sorry if I have offended you in any way, shape or form and would ask that if I have, could you please forgive me? I want my life to be for the glory of Jesus alone and I do not want to be a cause of offense to anyone I come in contact with. I desire to speak the truth in love and with a genuine desire to uplift those who hear what I have to say, I am sorry if in any way anything which I have had to say to you has not uplifted you or empowered you or lifted you up to know the Lord better and more fuller than you have before as this is my desire for my life and for everyone else’s lives also, that we may know Jesus in all His glory, in all His goodness and in all His holiness, in true light and in true power and above all things in true love, O Praise You Jesus, Bless and exalt Your Wonderful Name in all the earth, Amen and Amen…
Robert and Andrew J,
What a wonderful cleansing! I feel a better man for having grasps the truths you have laid out.
You know, with such acknowlwdgements and proclaimations, the members could really share, learn, debate and even correct in any area or any issue, and feel clean and excited for the learning on any issue.
If we all printed out the wisdom from The Lord given, re-read at times of heated debate, GROWTH would occur, whether agreement did or not.
Good Words (and from The Lord I’m Sure)
2 Thess 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The delusion spoken of is how God brings judgment on those who do not repent and continue to pursue their own sinful pleasures instead of serving Him. Anyone who does not give God their whole heart and obey His foremost commandment is subject to this delusion. This applies to both non-believers and also professing believers whose actions and behaviors contradict their expressed faith. Most of the prophets and Jesus himself directly addressed the blindness and deafness that God sends upon those who have hardened their hearts, remain unrepentant and take pleasure in their continued practice of unrighteousness.
The deluded and blind are not saved and unless they are brought to true repentance will remain on the broad road that leads to destruction.
2 Tim 4:3-4 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to fables.
What is a delusion? According to Merriam Webster a delusion is “something that is falsely believed or propagated despite indisputable evidence to the contrary”. Paul told the church that God would send a delusion, a strong one at that, to all that take pleasure in their sins. He did not say this delusion only came upon just non believers, it applies to everyone and Paul was giving more color to some words previously spoken by Jesus about the end time judgments.
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
These professing Christians think they were saved. They do works in His name, they believed in Christ or they thought they did. They played church and maybe were religious but they did not follow God and did not know the Lord. They are under the delusion sent by God. Their good works did not make up for the fact they lorded over their own life, doing their will not God’s. They were not led by the Spirit of God and because of that rebellion became sons of disobedience.
THE SPIRIT OF GOD WILL NEVER CONTRADICT THE WORD OF GOD
Wayne,
I love that you hate sin. I love that your desire is that all keep the law.
However, perhaps there should be more of the wisdom expressed by the prior posts by Robert and Andrew J. infused into you ministry.
Could not the Pharisee’s of Jesus time be closer to your focus than say the twelve disciples selected by The Lord?
They were careful to clip even 10% of their mint leaves in order to be in complete obiedience.
Where did they go wrong? Their complete adherance to the righteous law of God and their critical spirit against those who did not blinded them to they fact that they themselves were on their best days, unworthy, unforgiving and so blinded to the only true way to God’s Heart, recognition of their lack of love.
When condemned by Love (Our Lord) they did not see the point. They kept keeping the law and condemning those who could not (that would be just about everybody, would it not).
Yet there were Pharisee’s who embrased The Love and Grace required to see salvation. Praise God!
I do not call you a Pharisee, I really do not know you. I am simply giving you my impression of the balance that myself and evidently other see within your attempts to minister truth. You have plenty of truth, but I would encourage you to realize, you appear to be lacking in Love.
Remember Wayne, WE will not be able to complete the law in these bodies of flesh. How long has it been since you have failed in one line of the law? Wow, you have sinned! Me too. How sad for us. Let us bring our failings before the Grace of God, repent and show that grace to others within the Body who fail.
Romans 5:8
“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Jesus died for ALL.
However those prepared to repent of their sin and accept HIS offer of salvation HIS WAY will be the sole beneficiaries. He will be unable to help those who invent their own religion and persist in perverting HIS Word to suit the VAIN imaginations of their own sinful minds.
There can be NO compromise with the truth for those who will be saved from the coming JUDGEMENT.
As with the Holy Spirit no amount of GODLY wisdom will ever lead to compromise with FALSE teaching.
1 Samuel 15:23 (NAS) “For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry…”
Witchcraft: Wanting to be a spiritual “mover and shaker” without submitting to God. Submission to GOD requires TOTAL submission to HIS Word – THE BIBLE – NOT the Word of The self appointed anointed ones rebelling against HIS Word to promote their own FALSE religion. Witchcraft is rebellion coupled with a desire to “stay in the game”, to be a spiritual player.
Any notion of compromise and associated extra biblical revelations are LIES of the devil similar to that which lead to the fall of Adam and Eve and MUSt be resisted at ALL cost.
As in the days of Noah, IGNORANCE of the TRUTH is taking MOST people to HELL. Those prepared to compromise and to promote compromise with FALSE teachings and their promoters will have NO excuse whatsoever on the Judgement Day.when they are despatched to HELL as the warnings have been very clear.
Witchcraft In The Church
Deuteronomy 18:14 (NAS) “For those nations, which you will dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so.”
Acts 8:9-11 (NIV) Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is the divine power known as the Great Power.” They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic.
Jeremiah 5:23 (NIV) But these people have stubborn and rebellious hearts; they have turned aside and gone away.
It is sobering to see how similar modern witchcraft (Wicca, or “white witchcraft”) is to modern Christianity. Self-aware witches bless as well as curse, ‘bind and loose’, prophesy, pray, lay hands on, anoint with oil, etc. Some even consider themselves Christians with a superior understanding and power. A few even worship Jesus–along with a pantheon of other gods and goddesses–but totally reject the reality of Satan.
This should not surprise us, it was the same in Jesus’ day; nor should it poison our desire to practice real spiritual gifts. But given the similarity, how does one tell the difference? More importantly, are we dabbling with witchcraft?
Isaiah 30:9 (NIV) These are rebellious people, deceitful children, children unwilling to listen to the Lord’s instruction.
2 Timothy 3:6-8 (RSV) For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11 (NIV) Let no one be found among you… who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or cast spells, or who is a medium or spiritist.
This is where the FALSE religion that has overtaken the church is leading those who choose to be spiritually naive and scripturally ignorant.
Clearly GOD is testing faithfulness to HIS Word in these Last Days.
Only those who remain faithful to HIS Word ONLY until the end will be spared from the coming judgement.
Miracles may be done, supernatural power may come into play, but if the soul doing these works is not yielded to God’s will, then it is an act of rebellion. The witch in all of us wants God “on a leash”. God must perform a trick for us when we jerk His chain.
Like Satan, we twist Scripture: “But doesn’t God say…?” (Matthew 4:5-6, Genesis 3:1)
The destiny of those who continue to practice witchcraft as “free agents” from God is certain, even if their miracles are “good works”.
Matthew 7:22 (NEB) “Many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out devils in your name, and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them to their face, ‘I never knew you; out of my sight, you and your wicked ways!’”
Exodus 20:7 (NIV) “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.”
Revelation 22:15 (NIV) Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 21:8 (NIV) But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
Jeremiah 14:14 (NIV) Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.”
Jeremiah 27:9-10 (NIV) “So do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your interpreters of dreams, your mediums or your sorcerers… Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have.”
Ezekiel 13:6 (NIV) Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. They say, “The Lord declares,” when the Lord has not sent them; yet they expect their words to be fulfilled.
Ezekiel 13:7 (NIV) Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, “The Lord declares,” though I have not spoken?
Ezekiel 13:9 (NIV) My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.
Isaiah 47:9 (NIV) Both of these will overtake you in a moment, on a single day: loss of children and widowhood. They will come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and all your potent spells.
Malachi 3:5 (NIV) “So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers…” says the Lord Almighty
Job 24:13 (NIV) “There are those who rebel against the light, who do not know its ways or stay in its paths.”
A.W. Tozer: “Christianity is so entangled with the world that millions never guess how radically they have missed the New Testament pattern. Compromise is everywhere. The world is whitewashed just enough to pass inspection by blind men posing as believers…”
2 Timothy 4:2-4 Proclaim God’s message, be zealous in season and out of season; convince, rebuke, encourage, with the utmost patience as a teacher. For a time is coming when they will not tolerate wholesome instruction, but, wanting to have their ears tickled, they will find a multitude of teachers to satisfy their own fancies; and will turn away from listening to the truth and will turn aside to fables.
Andrew, I’m beginning to think that this website has been given over to “Wayne”. He regards nothing that anyone else says or shares, people extend the arm of grace and love to him and yet he does nothing but rant and rage. Don’t you think it’s time to encourage Wayne to get his own website, or at least “take away his soap box”?
Wayne,
Below is another web site that you took from, and did not identify the source of your postings.
Dean and Laura VanDruff
Spiritual Adultery bible study series
http://www.acts17-11.com/witchcraft.html
The bulk of your last postings came from the site noted above, including Tozer’s message, which did have its proper citation. Apparently, at the present time you can’t help yourself, but you do need to recognize that taking something that is not yours is stealing, and stealing breaks the seventh commandment of God. All thief’s are natural liars and will use what ever methods or devises’ to cover their coveting deceit including witchcraft. For our practical purposes, witchcraft is manipulation of other peoples thoughts and emotions to cover the scorer’s innate weakness and try to exhibit a position of power. The VanDruff’s reveal this same spiritual workings in you with their writings:
Dear Wayne, You need the love of God that passes all understanding working in your heart. It is always available to a humble and contrite heart. Consider where you are and what spirits are controlling your emotions.
Your confession of sin will begin to break the yoke of bondage, and your forgiveness of friends, family members, yourself and even God will leave the enemy in the dust.
Your brother, Robert Glenn
Dear Wayne,
Perhaps I’ve taken a wrong tact. Often times I let my own shortcomings interfer with relationships because of assumptions, and judgments due to my own way of seeing things and history.
The scripture tells us that many are led to the Lord by His Word and our testimony. Paul was very open with so much, and by way of approaching people where they were, won many.
Wayne I’m new here, and have made a couple of good friends, one of whom has blessed me and even taught me much through his writings.
You are a “very” prominent commentator in this community, yet I know nothing of you personally. I’m not asking for volumes, rather a thumbnail of where you came from and how you came to follow our Lord, and maybe a very short comment on your ministry here and elsewhere. I know I’ve come across judgemental, and without really knowing you. Sometimes, the longer the comments, the harder it is to read and take to heart, but I for one would like to know you better. I surely would gladly accept a personal e-mail if you want to share with perhaps a new friend.
You’ve been chastised by some (myself included), A short “By the word of their testimony” might help develope relationships with a fostered understanding.
Then again, Andrew or another Moderator may feel this is off topic or inappropriate for any number of reasons. We’ll see.
Dear Wayne….I hope you have a chance to read David Wilkerson’s article “Enoch walked with God”
This article describes the “normal” “the expected” life of a follower of Christ.
It describes the same walk that is described in Romans 8 and Galatians 5. We walk by faith, and faith alone. We are saved by faith, and faith alone. We are justified by faith, and faith alone. We have access by faith, and faith alone. We are sanctified by faith, and faith alone. Our righteousness is received by faith, and faith alone.
Wayne, if you seek the truth, how much clearer can God make it?
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. (This is a curse!)
Phl 3:9 And be found in him, NOT HAVING MINE OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, WHICH IS OF THE LAW, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”
2Cr 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight—
Gal 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh( LAW)?
Gal 3:4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Gal 3:5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
May the Peace of God rule in your heart and soul, Wayne, so that you may know the depths of God’s love for you.
Happy Trails and others
You are shutting yourselves off from the ONE TRUE GOD by your persistent refusal to submit to HIM and follow HIM HIS Way.
The occultic filth you promote is leading to eternal damnation.
Job 24:13 (NIV) “There are those who rebel against the light, who do not know its ways or stay in its paths.”
“And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man.” –Genesis vi. 3.
You do not have unlimited time to fool around with your false religions and false gods.
The DAY of Judgement is fast approaching.
I urge you to turn to the one true Jesus Christ before it is too late.
Eternal damnation is a very high price to pay for insisting that God conform to your invented religion.
God will ONLY accept you on HIS terms. HE WILL NOT CONFORM TO THE IMAGINATIONS OF YOUR CARNAL RELIGIOUS MINDS.
REPENT and turn to HIM before HE brings judgement upon you and ALL who accept your deception.
The diabolical evil that has over run what might previously have been referred to as the christian church has been permitted by GOD to test FAITHFULNESS to HIS WORD Not your capacity for novelty.
Thank you for your comments J Byron.
Having raised my family in a Pentecostal church which we attended for over 30 years until we realised our salvation was actually being jeopardized if we continued to avoid the clear warnings of scripture and the accompanying conviction of the Holy Spirit and stayed on there. Although I had been warned by Godly pentecostal leaders many years before that there was something rotten going on in the church internationally we were horrified to discover the extent of apostasy and committment to the occult and New Age ideology and practice which had overrun what might previously had been referred to as the pentecostal movement incorporating the scharismatic section as well which might more appropriately be referred to as charismania.
We are absolutely disgusted with the extent and scope of apostasy, the plummeting spiritual standards and the proliferation of New Age religious spirits so obvious to those who have so graciously been granted spiritual discernment by GOD. The total commitment to the occult and the teachings of self appointed “anointed” men at the expense of the clear teachings of the BIBLE. The ‘Pastor” of the apostate pentecostal church we left exclaimed openly that he did “NOT care about Bible doctrine, I only care about my anointing……”
Sadly very few people seemed to care about these sentiments but some expressed delight that he was “anointed.”
With the Purpose Driven teachings, for example, we have the formerly christian church committed to social welfare activities at the expense of the God given role of the church to preach and teach the Word of God.
The church is NOT about social welfare as much as it is about preaching and teaching people HOW to live. Individuals from within the church may be called to engage in social welfare activities BUT the resources of the church MUST be committed to the faithful preaching and teaching of the Word of God.
The spiritual battle is at the point of communicating and accepting spiritual TRUTH. Any diversion from this responsibility is demonic in origin. Many deliverance ministries today have actually boasted to me of how they avoid preaching the Word of God as many people find this offensive and move straight into “power” ministry. As I have tried to show elsewhere this is effectively WITCHCRAFT.
People with pentecostal ministry credentials are ushering in such unbiblical, anti biblical super biblical teachings that I am physically as well as spiritually sickened by it.
What is going on is New Age rather than christian and by the grace of God my family and I have committed to remaining faithful to biblical christianity for as long as possible. Everything warned about in the scriptures has been openly developing within the pentecostal charismatic section of the ‘christian” church and is no doubt permeating all other sections of the “christian” church as well.
The clear message from GOD is that HE is testing FAITHFULNESS to HIS WORD before bringing judgement to HIS Church.
The Latter Rain, so prevalent throughout the church; is a major factor in the preparation of the harlot Church to receive the Anti-Christ.
“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling
away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition…” (2 Th 2:3 NKJV)
In 1948 a movement was born that has become the foundation of the great apostasy that the Apostle
Paul warned us would come prior to the return of our Lord. Known as the New Order of the Latter Rain or
just the Latter Rain Movement its influence has steadily grown within the Pentecostal and Charismatic
Churches since 1948. Today, through the influence of various “revivals” its leaven is spreading even further
into the Evangelical world.
An apostasy or “falling away” is essentially a rebellion of God’s people against His Word. It would
be within the Latter Rain “revival” which broke out in North Battleford, Saskatchewan, in 1948 that the last
great rebellion against the word of God would be birthed. It is my belief that this movement has ushered in
the very apostasy that the Apostle Paul warned would come.
Rebelling against the New Testament picture of the Church in the last days as a despised remnant of
the faithful holding on until the rapture, they began to develop a heretical doctrine of a triumphant Church –
conquering the world and bringing in the kingdom of Christ. The first time the Church adopted such a
theology it resulted in the development of Roman Catholicism and ushered in the Dark Ages. This time the
result will be much the same but of a much shorter duration. It will produce the one-world ecumenical
church, “The Great Harlot” that will triumph for a short time under Anti-Christ – “Drunken with the blood of
the saints and martyrs of Jesus.”
It came to be taught that the “Latter Rain” revival of 1948 was to be the first in a series of
“restorational moves of God” that would restore to the Church all of the truths that Satan had “robbed” her
of. The five-fold ministries of apostles and prophets would also be restored to the church. These restored
“apostles” and “prophets” would lead the Church into “present truth” and the “last great moves of God.”
Eventually when the Church was mature enough the “rapture” would occur. But the rapture of the Latter
Rain would be a much different rapture than the Church had ever taught before. It would be a “spiritual”
coming of Christ into His Church, His “corporate body.” A “corporate anointing.” The saints would be
“glorified”, even “deified” – right here on this earth. This overcoming army of saints believes it will go
forth conquering and triumphing over all of it’s enemies in the Great Tribulation. When they are done Christ
will be “released from the heavens”, to come and take control of the kingdom they have established.
This doctrine is known as the “Manifest Sons of God” or “Sonship” and has spread throughout the
Evangelical Church through the Charismatic and Kingdom/Dominion Movements. The Latter Rain
“revivals” that are occurring in Toronto, Pensecola, and various other places are popularizing and spreading
this heresy at an alarming rate. It is known popularly today as “Joel’s Army”. Thousands of Christians are
coming into a strong delusion because they did not receive the love of the truth. While they may have
received the truth, they did not have a love for it and have therefore fallen away from it. They are trading
their blessed hope for an earthly delusion.
Only faithfulness to HIS Word will enable us to discern these false teachings sent to deceive those who DO NOT LOVE THE TRUTH WITH ALL THEIR HEART SOUL AND MIND as required by GOD.
Wayne, thank you for homoring my request.
While I was more interested in the personal side of how you came to Christ, I did ask for short this, and thumbnail that, didn’t I.
I see you have had the same type of experiences with church administrations as we mostly have , we who have found Andrews little corner of the “church” discerned. I was hoping you’d remember how lost you must’ve been, and how you found our Lord through times of great struggle?
I want you to remember what you were, where you where when Our Lord Found you. Did you stop drinking, smoking and chasing women so as to be accepted, or were you saved while still in you sin, by simple (it really must be simple) faith in a Person?
Was that moment the result of turning your back on sin, or was your salvation a result of faith in The One and the revelatiltory knowledge of His Sacrifice for your sin (past, present and future), then followed by a desire to serve this Saviour?
Was Abraham saved because he was will to sacrifice his son, or because he believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness?
I am not belittling the law! I am boasting on The Grace of God. Praise Him!
I could not help but notice Happy Trails had some wonderful points of reference from both scripture and a VERY annointed man of God, Pastor Wilkerson, and yet you seemed to imply she was following a false god or something. I’m perplexed at such by you brother and want you to see clearly why some wish to reach out and understand you better.
I of course could go on and on (i’m a curious Christian), but the added length would take away from the points first put forth.
I’m liking what I’m hearing coming out of your heart “J Byron”, I have asked Wayne similar questions in another thread regarding whether the Holy Spirit witnesses with his spirit that he is a child of God and whether the Holy Spirit within him cries out, “Abba, Father” as the scripture says, but Wayne has never answered my questions…
I don’t know why that is… Wayne, would you like to explain?
No teacher of the word of God is above accountability and we are never asked by the Lord to just believe what anyone who teaches the word of God says without first making sure that their life matches up with their doctrine as the Apostle Paul tells Timothy, “Watch your life and doctrine closely”…
I’ve heard quite a lot of your doctrine Wayne but with the exception of the above single post I’ve heard basically nothing about your life which makes me scripturally very reticent to believe anything you say…
Throw us a lifeline Wayne, tell us about your conversion experience, tell us about at least one area of deep rooted sin in your life which the Lord has broken by the power of His truth revealed to you in your innermost being…
This will help us to be able to receive or at least consider what it is you have to say, Amen?
When Satan’s first
attempt to destroy the Gospel through the Judaizers failed he made another attempt through the Gnostics, those who claimed to have special revelation and were NOT accountable to the scriptures because of their special anointings and teachings but
as long as the original Apostles remained alive, these attempts met with failure.
“I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you
have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars…” (Rev 2:2 NKJV)
It wasn’t until John, the last of the original apostles died, that Gnosticism would be able to make any
significant inroads into the Church. Again, as with the Judaizers, much of the New Testament was written as
a refutation of the Gnostic heresies. For example, John identifies the spirit of Anti-Christ as the spirit that
was behind the Gnostic doctrine that Christ never possessed a physical body – that He was merely one of a
series of “spiritual emanations” from God. John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, refutes this teaching in his
gospel and his epistles:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…And the
Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the
Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1,14 NKJV)
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes,
which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life; the life was
manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the
Father and was manifested to us…” (1 John 1:1,2 NKJV)
The term Gnostic comes from the Greek word Gnosis which means “knowledge.” The Gnostics
claimed to possess special secret or “esoteric” knowledge. This special knowledge could only be received by
a spiritually elite class of humanity, the “pneumatic”, or “spiritual”. According to Baker’s Dictionary of
Theology:
There was a second class of men, those who were only “psychic” and could not get
beyond faith. The prophets and other good Hebrews belonged to this class but they must be
eternally in a sphere much inferior to that occupied by those who had “gnosis”. A third class
represented the overwhelming mass of human kind. They were merely “hyclic” (i.e. subject
to matter) and their class was utterly hopeless for they were in endless bondage to Satan and
their own lusts, and their end was to be completely destroyed. Here was one of the worst
features of Gnosticism, the elevating of a limited number into a specially privileged class, and
the consigning of the majority of mankind to unredeemable destruction…In general, all the
varied schools taught that matter was utterly and irretrievably evil. They agreed that the God
of the Jews, the Creator of the world, was not the Supreme Being but a very inferior being
whom they called the Demiurge…The historical Christ was a mere man, but He was taken
possession of by the heavenly Christ who was the brightest of all aeons [emanations from the
Gnostic God]. This heavenly Christ acted in the man Jesus but was never incarnate. He could
not be, because matter was so evil…Another version was that the heavenly Christ only had
the semblance of a body…The Ophites were a Gnostic sect which venerated the serpent.
They taught that God was bad and the serpent good. One school of thought turned the
scriptures upside down, teaching that Pharaoh and Ahab were saints while Moses and Elijah
were sinners. Altogether, Gnosticism was a deadly peril in the Church for about 150 years. 301
I think we are going to have to expand that estimate of 150 years. In these last days we have seen the
re-emergence of Gnosticism in two areas. The first one being outside of the Church in the New Age
Movement and the second inside of the Church through the Latter Rain Movement. Both of these
movements, the New Age and the Latter Rain, show remarkable similarities upon close examination. The
reason for this being the common thread of Gnosticism that is woven into both movements.
To the New Age, like the Gnostics before them, Jesus Christ is not God incarnate. Christ is a spirit or
“spiritual emanation”, an “aeon” that “took possession” of the man Jesus Christ – the “Christ spirit”:
Jesus was not always Christ. Jesus won his Christship by a strenuous life, and
in…chapter 55, we have a record of the events of his christing, or receiving the degree of
Christ…we recognize the fact that Jesus was a man and that Christ was God…
Jesus was just a man who was “christed” or who received the “Christ-spirit.” You may be aware that this is the nonsense Kenneth Copeland and his cohorts are spreading around.
According to the New Age Jesus was, like Buddha, just one of many such “christed” men. The New Age is looking for a return of
the “Christ-spirit.” He will rest upon the next “great teacher” whom they refer to as “the Christ”, or “Lord
Mayitreya”. (Christians know him as Anti-Christ)
According to the Manifest Sons of God or Joel’s Army doctrine being embraced by the church today
Jesus is also not unique or alone as the incarnated Son of God. Although they do not deny the incarnation of
Christ many teach that the manifest sons of God are also going to become “divine sons” – God incarnate.
Jesus becomes just a pattern, the “pattern son” or the “seed” from which many “Christ’s” will emerge. Kelly
Varner writes:
Jesus was the pattern son, the “firstborn son”…The time has come again for the
woman to be “delivered”, to “travail and bring forth”…In the time of the corporate Messiah –
Christ being formed in a people…
And:
Jesus Christ is the seed of the woman (Gen. 3:15) as well as the seed of Abraham and
the seed of David…In that seed is God’s name or nature- all that God is, all that God has, and
all that God does! …Jesus will realize the spiritual seed who shall prolong his days (Jn.
14:12; Acts 1:1). This enchristed seed (Gal 3:16) is an anointed army of servants, the 42nd
generation, the glorious, end-time Church marked by righeousness (Ps. 14:5), prayer (Ps.
24:6), and praise (Ps. 102:18).
Another Manifest Sons of God proponent, E.E. Brooks writes:
We shall be EXACTLY LIKE HIM. Not the mere shadow of what we see now when
we look into a mirror. His seed will produce perfection when placed in good ground. God’s
seed is not defective that it can not bring forth. It is not weak, bringing forth something less
than himself. There will be a group of sons who will partake of the divine nature and become
like Him.
And:
We have the opportunity to partake of the divine nature, the very essence of God.
Currently we find ourselves immersed in human nature. Peter tells us there is a possibility to
partake of the same nature that God has. Some of us will shed our human nature and awaken
116
to a much higher destiny. Once fully clothed with the Divine Nature, we will be the
Manifested Sons of God. Every thought will be Divine. God’s thoughts will become our
thoughts. We will know the will of the Father, for it will become our Nature. Those of us who
fully mature will experience a change, casting off the confines of human mortality to enter
the frontier of divine immortality.
The Manifest Son of God proponents are teaching a form of spiritual evolution. They teach we are
evolving into God and this evolution will be complete when the sons of God become manifested to the
world. When Christ returns not for, but in His body the Church, as a “corporate anointing” in “His corporate
body.” At that time, this spiritual evolution will be completed and they shall become God – Christ on this
earth.
This exactly parallels the New Age teaching of today. The New Agers are also teaching that man is
spiritually evolving into God. The spiritual evolution of the New Age is to be accomplished through the
experience of “Cosmic consciousness”:
New Age doctrine holds that as more and more racially superior human beings
become aware of their divine nature and their latent powers within, a critical mass of energy
will develop and a new cosmic consciousness will envelop the globe. Transformed into super-
beings, homosapiens will become a race of gods. Enlightened man shall rule the universe,
unite with it, and he and it shall become one.
The New Age spiritual evolution will be completed through “Cosmic consciousness” instead of the
“corporate anointing” of the Latter Rain. Both groups are evolving into God – they’re just using different
terminology! Note also the claims of spiritual superiority and elitism made by both groups.
“You shall be as God.” That is the promise of Satan and the New Age and that is also the promise of
the Manifest Sons of God. As we have seen, the Manifest Sons of God proponents are labeling and
identifying their critics in the Church as Anti-Christ. Kenneth Copeland proclaims:
Even in those early days, the Devil sent people in to steal that message…people with
the spirit of Anti-Christ (anti-anointing). For if you retranslate the word Anti-Christ you’ll
realize it’s referring to someone who is opposed to the anointing.
Much the same, prominent New Ager John Randolph Price, when asked “How do you define the
Anti-Christ?”, replied:
Any individual or group who denies the divinity of man as exemplified by Jesus
Christ; i.e. to be in opposition to Christ in you. The indwelling Christ or Higher Self of each
individual.
Both groups are essentially saying the same thing – the Anti-Christ is anyone who does not believe
that God is here now incarnate in our flesh, or will come and incarnate in our flesh. Well, God was here in
the flesh, and His name is Jesus Christ. But now God-in-the-flesh is seated at the right hand of the Father
interceding for the saints. As has already been pointed out, the fact that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us as
believers does not make us God, as the Manifest Sons of God proponents teach. This is the heresy of
Apotheosis.
Their is ONLY ONE JESUS CHRIST but their are many false christs.’ The best way to be deceived is to claim to know better than the bible does or to accept the teachings of people who claim their special anointings enables them to do so.
THE TRUE GOD IS TESTING FAITHFULNESS TO HIS WORD – ALL ELSE IS VANITY and will lead to eternal damnation
Jesus was unique. He alone was the God-man. He was fully God, and He was fully man. We are only
men, even though the Spirit of God dwells in us. It is my belief that the spirit of Anti-Christ not only denies
that Jesus was God incarnate – it also denies the uniqueness of Christ as the God-man. The spirit that would
seek to elevate man to the place of Christ, whether in the Church or in the world, is the spirit of Anti-Christ.
This false christ and the willingness of the harlot church to engage in spiritual adultery with him (them) is the basis of the occultic filth being spread around like spiritual syphilis in the church today
TURN TO THE ONE TRUE JESUS WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME.
JOHN 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
AS WAS THE CASE WITH JOHN THE BAPTIST AND MANY OTHER HUMBLE SERVANTS OF THE ONE TRUE GOD I WILL NEVER PROMOTE MYSELF OR SPEAK ABOUT MYSELF AS YOU SEEM TO BE ASKING ME TO DO.
MY ROLE IS TO SIMPLY TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO ALL SO THAT SOME MAY BE ABLE TO ESCAPE FROM THE FALSE TEACHING WHICH HAS OVER RUN THE CHURCH.
I WILL NEVER PRESENT MYSELF AS AN ‘ANOINTED’ ONE BUT ONLY AS ONE WHO KNOWS THE TRUTH AND WILL THEREFORE LEAD PEOPLE TO THE ONE TRUE GOD AS PRESENTED TO US IN THE BIBLE.
WHICH JESUS ARE YOU FOLLOWING?
DO YOU KNOW THE ONE TRUE JESUS CHRIST PERSONALLY AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR?
ARE YOU COMMITTED TO HIS TEACHINGS AS PRESENTED TO US IN THE BIBLE OR HAVE YOU BEEN DECEIVED INTO FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS OF “ANOINTED” ONES WHO ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE BIBLE BUT INSTEAD TEACH DOCTRINES OF DEMONS?
UNBIBLICAL ANTIBIBLICAL OR EXTRABIBLICAL TEACHINGS ARE DOCTRINES OF DEMONS.
DOCTRINES OF DEMONS LEAD TO THE DEMONIC ACTIVITY BEING DOCUMENTED BY PEOPLE SUCH AS ANDREW STROM AND MANY OTHERS,
THE HARLOT CHURCH IS DECEIVING MANY PEOPLE INTO ACCEPTING DOCTRINES OF DEMONS TAUGHT BY PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO KNOW BETTER THAN THE BIBLE.
TURN TO THE ONE TRUE JESUS WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME
Hi Wayne,
Regarding the content (subject matter) of your post above which commences, “When Satan’s first
attempt to destroy the Gospel…” I have the following to say…
As far I can tell from my time on this forum to date, neither “Gary Simpson” (whom you have personally attacked in the past), “Happy Trails” (whom you have personally attacked in the past), “Harvey Rosieur” (whom you have personally attacked in the past), “Robert Glenn” (whom you have personally attacked in the past) or myself (whom you have also personally attacked in the past) believe in any of the deceptions which you outline in the abovementioned post and yet you have condemned us all as believing these deceptions even though we’ve specifically told you – some of us – that we catagorically do not believe in and are not a part of these deceptions…
I will let other posters named above speak for themselves if they see things any differently…
You have also urged “watchful” to flee from certain deceptions which she has in previous posts already told you that she has removed herself from…
Do you have no spiritual discernment Wayne? Why do you suppose we, those posters that I’ve named above, have joined this forum? Do you suppose that we have joined this forum to propagate heresy?
Do you suppose that maybe, just maybe we have joined this forum to make a difference in the lives of those whom the Lord has shown the severity of the times to so that we can encourage one another to shine as lights in a dark world?
What if, by your condemnation of those who are thus shining you are found to be condemning Christ Himself Wayne?
How would you react to it if the Lord made you aware that your actions had been the cause of undermining His work in this forum? Would that sadden you? Would that make you sorry? Would that grieve your spirit?
I personally believe that you’d be better to go in person to some of the churches where this filth is practiced and stand up in their meetings and proclaim whatever it is that you feel the Lord has laid it on your heart to proclaim, they’re the one’s who need to hear it the most, right?
Why do we – the posters I’ve named above – need to hear it? Why don’t you go and post your posts on the forums of some of those who promote the deceptions which you outline in your above mentioned post?
Why can’t you live at peace with your brothers and sisters in Christ Wayne? Why do you seem intent on “biting and devouring” us? Is that the Spirit of Christ within you? The Spirit of Christ doesn’t misunderstand the heart of the other posters – mentioned above – on this forum who you’ve condemned…
Be zealous therefore and repent Wayne, you are not the only one “who has not bowed the knee to Baal” and if you believe that you are then you are sadly deceived…
All the best brother, Andrew
Unfortunately, we can expect this apostasy to continue to spread and grow worse until the Lord returns.
The spirit of Anti-Christ is growing increasingly more powerful and seductive and more and more churches are falling under its ecumenical Latter Rain spell. As the “revivals” continue to spread there is going to be increasing pressure upon those of us who continue to stubbornly stand against them and remain faithful to the Word of God – Sola Scriptura.
As lying signs and wonders grow more and more powerful and as the claimed “salvations” increase they will put more pressure upon us to “jump into the river”, accusing us of being “Pharisees with a religious Spirit” or worse – “Anti-Christ”, if we continue to reject what they consider to be so great a move of God. “Look at
the sinners being saved! The lives changed! The fruit! The miracles, signs and wonders! How can you
continue to stand against this mighty move of God?” In what I am afraid is a sign of things to come, we read
in the same Charisma article of a local pastor who gave in to the pressure to embrace this counterfeit revival
as the real thing:
One local minister accused Reid of being a cult leader and labeled the church a cult.
He later apologized, “There has been too many converts for me to deny any longer this is a
move of God,” the minister said.
The Gnostic heretics of the first century gained many converts. So did the later Arian heretics. Did this make their rising up within the midst of the church “moves of God”? No! The Holy Spirit is still the
Spirit of truth. Godly wisdom will NEVER lead us into compromise with worldly wisdom.
Until our Lord returns, and we rise up to meet Him in the clouds at the rapture – let us remember His admonition to the faithful Philadelphian Church:
“Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall
come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast
what you have, that no one may take your crown.” (Rev 3:10,11 NKJV)
Remember – “He who endures to the end shall be saved.”
“Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.”
“Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)
Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from among the apostate majority.
The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion. Like those foolish virgins of the
parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is
instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits. This counterfeit anointing comes with a
counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ. They
will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
“rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.
What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God
If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back to the Bible.
Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures.
“Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.” I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have family and close personal friends there, but if they will not hear you – you must leave them behind or suffer the consequences Lot’s wife did.
There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.
It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have
clearly been warned that it would come. It is still a little frightening that so many of God’s people today
could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.
“You shall be as gods.” The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army”
are putting forth today. You will become Christ – God on this earth. The heresy of Apotheosis. And yet
thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.
“And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)
Wayne dear brother, please consider, the word of our testimony is what helps us to overcome, our tongue has power of life or death, and it is the opposite of self-promotion because our testimony is always about what the Lord has done or revealed in our lives. Paul talked about himself quite a lot and boasted in his weakness, he also spoke of what he went through for the gospel’s sake and for the fledgling church because it proved His faith and proved that he was an apostle – and these testimonies glorify our Father. Wasn’t it the Lord who opened your eyes to the truth that you have so far, I’m sure you wouldn’t have everyone believe you did that all by yourself, by your own innate goodness and wisdom?
It can be a scary thing to let go of our self-righteousness and cling only to Jesus, at least it was for me, but the Lord showed me one time that allowing Him to expose and deep cleanse the deep sins/iniquities within us is bridal intimacy as far as He is concerned, it is His joy – we don’t have to fear it, but yield ourselves to the process like a bride yielding and giving herself to her Husband on their wedding night. I’m going through something like that right now with the Lord shining His light on something horrible in me that I would rather not face, but it’s the only way to be cleansed of it and changed. If we don’t allow it, we are removing ourselves from the bridal chamber, God forbid!
We can no more be faithful to the commands of the New Testament in ourselves than the Israelites of old could keep the whole Law. Being faithful to the word is only part of the story. When the Lord brought me out of the churches, I still didn’t understand in my mind what He was doing, he was herding me like a dumb little sheep – I was still steeped in the prosperity gospel and the pagan idolatry of Christmas/Easter – it was only later that His light broke through and restored me to grace, restored me to the pure gospel and broke that idolatry off my life. I don’t understand all the reasons why I find myself out here in the wilderness with you and everyone else here Wayne (all I know is that it is because of the grace of the Lord and nothing to do with my deserts) but I know that faithfulness to the scriptures is not the whole story – there is also the love of the truth even though we don’t yet know or possess all truth, and there is also the mystery of election, and there is also the disciple’s cross, and very possibly other factors involved as well. He is God, not we, and He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and all we can do is be grateful and give thanks for so great a salvation! Amen?
Thanks for sharing more about yourself Wayne, I’m glad to meet you at last and understand more about where you’re coming from. I think what you don’t realize maybe is that myself and most of us here agree with the things you are saying in principle, you’re preaching to the choir on this forum – yes, it’s so true, the false church has lost the word of God and is following their own vain imaginations , and not only that but they have lost the cross also – but it honestly makes me depressed the way you are continuing to go about things here, and I ask and pray that you would open your eyes just a peek and really look around at us and consider that your audience here consists of real, living, breathing, feeling people who are hurt by your negation and ignoring us and seeming to use us as your sounding board, though I’m sure that is not your intention. May the blessings and peace of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ be yours brother. I say in all love and sisterly affection, please lighten up a little – God is on His throne and has everything under control!
The reason Andrew has not done any thing is because Heidi and wayne on this forum who attacked me in the first place were wrong and i told him so. Now they have turned and attacked all of you and still nothing is done. This is so funny that you can get rid of all who you dont like because they dont fit into the box you have made for God only to have it turn on your selves as i told Andrew it would do. Oh well i still love you all and pray our Father will open your eyes to see the real enemy is not flesh and blood.
Even poor old Wayne is just a pawn in the hands of the devil. In the end you will see that God just sent someone to help you and because it was not someone that you knew or liked the way they said something you rejected them in favor for something that turned and would kill you to.
I was blessed by your post “watchful” and I sense that the Lord is doing a deep and abiding work in you, Praise His Holy Name, which will bring forth fruit for His glory… :-)
Love to you and to your family in the Lord, may you all be blessed, Let His peace cover you, I see it in the spirit (the spiritual realm) and bring harmony to your household, Praise You Jesus, there’s a new unity coming to your family “watchful”, I see the peace of God and joy over your family in the spirit (the spiritual realm) and smiles (you’ll know what that means when you see it), Thank You Lord, Thank You Father, Thank You Holy Spirit, Thank You for Your transforming work in our lives… :-)
Dear Wayne,
If after the very wise counsel (a wise man seeks much of that I’m led to believe) of many, and then the heart felt outreach from the Watchful girl, I would say, you need to seek out the counsel of someone you trust and have regard for. Present them with a print out of the last 10 comments, leaving yours in. Get a response, get back to balanced reason. If you insist on ignoring the good counsel given in love here and want to remain a good John the Baptist, you can abreviate your comments to “Repent, The Coming of The Lord is Near”. I would never tire of seeing that post and it would not cause the current confusion and disruption to reasoned debate, encouragement, correction and edification that drew my attentions to begin with.
David,
I can see you have good wisdom and discernment (although I am not familiar with Heidi), and it appears you felt like your voice was not heard. Everybody gets frustrated when right is not recognized, but nobody likes a “I told ya so” either.
I’m also new to this forum, and hopefully led here by the Lord. It’s after a long period of reading Andrews work and loving the fact he gives voice to Pastor Wilkerson (a rare move among Christians today) so with some trepidation, as I am a writer for secular media, I felt I could grow here in knowledge and friendship with a part of the body not often found at the local assembly.
The moderator is a busy guy, flying here and there, the constant flow of input is something he must attend to while managing a growing ministry, making appearances and writing quite a bit himself. The ministry here is like any other insofar as things are missed, procrastinated, and yes, probably ignored.
I suggest, as a fellow newbie, voice your opinion and pray God brings the attention to it and move on. Waiting for the movement of an Administration or Organization, even one led by Godly leaders (as I am sure this is) can be a lesson in patience and often disappointing.
Don’t let that keep you from discourse with the family who sees and interacts with you here. I have made a comittment to follow the flow of this ministry and have been rewarded in the give and take.
If I see continued growth of my involvement, I will invest more in the ministry. Invite others to church you might say, consider tithing where I’m being fed, praying regularly for it’s blessing, and give a tad more attention to the other congregants as relationships grow.
All of that to say this, Wayne, as many, proclaim rightly, The Hour of Our Lords return is near. Let’s be close, be active, invest our talents rightly. Encourage and learn. Mostly, If the Lord drew you here, be here. Fellowship is more than ideas and debate.
“You will know them by their love for one another.”
As to the import of the warning/prophesy?Throughout all generations the Lord has made war against a man centered religion. As to bldgings, legally certain things have to be done inorder for them to remain open.The gross neglect in the church leadership is that they all have a good idea and follow that, we’ll call it “the arm of the flesh”.I don’t know that these men are all bad, just blind. There are some that use religion as a means to gain, power, position, control. It’s that group of individuals the Lord will expose and contend with. But within even the institutional church it still falls upon its members to be the true bride of Christ. In every generation there has been and will continue to be a seperation of the peoples, this is a norm. The scripture that comes to mind is the historical account of the Tower of Saloam that fell and killed many. Jesus never explained God’s eternal purpose in this event but He did leave us with a precious life principle, “except ye repent”, thats the message, even more so in a land where the land itself is vomitting its inhabitants outs.
I very much appreciate your encouragment and prayers Andrew J – just after writing my post, I picked up a box of dish detergent to get to work in my kitchen and on the box it said “Deep Cleansing Power” – lol, our wonderful Lord even has a sense of humour to encourage His little ones! How I do love Him! Thanks again, and I’m looking forward to those “smiles” of which you speak! :) Much love and blessing to you and your family too brother!
J Bryon
I agree about the i told you so. But in this case i believe it is just what is needed you were not even aware of what was going on and others have forgot or did not know them selves. Some times God needs to remind us of something so we need not continue to fall into the ditch.
“Deep Cleansing Power” – Praise God “watchful” that made me laugh, Amen to the “smiles”… :-)
Great word watchful, it brought tears to my eyes, if that post was for me I would be asking for forgiveness and on my knees crying out to God for help.
God bless sister,
Tyrone
Hey David good to see you post again, I for one agreed with most of what you posted, the deep things of God are hard to be understood, and besides this is only a forum, we have no other fellowship with each other besides words. No physical interaction, no prayer time together, no breaking of bread together, ect…
Wow, 10 posts and nothing from Wayne. I think that’s a record. Maybe his copy/paste button is broken.
Hello Tyrone
Thanks brother it is not so much that we agree on every little thing as we grow many things we believe change.But something that never changes is that we have both been made brothers in Christ and this more then any thing else is what we base are love for one another on.
True indeed David :-)
I could cite many more examples of Charismatic (and Pentecostal) leaders who have forsaken the
blessed hope for this earthly delusion. Robbed of their hope of an imminent return of our Lord, many
Christians have grown lukewarm toward Christ and worldly-minded in their attitudes and desires, just as He
prophesied. As Dave Hunt points out:
Whether or not we truly long for Christ’s return and are ready for Him to come at any
moment will obviously affect how we live. To awaken each morning with the joyful
anticipation that this could be the day that Christ will catch away his own from earth to
heaven transforms our daily lives as nothing else could…Contrary to what the critics say, the
hope of Christ’s imminent return doesn’t lead to spiritual lethargy or an escapist mentality
which shuns responsibility and trial. Rather, it causes us to witness more earnestly and to live
holier lives, knowing that very little time for doing so may remain.
Thank God for the blessed hope of the rapture. Thank God for the promise of our Lord:
“Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which
shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold
fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.” (Rev 3:10-11 NKJV)
“… Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8
NKJV)
FAITHFULNESS WILL BE REWARDED BY GOD
It’s up to us. “Even so, come Lord Jesus”.
Tyrone, God bless you too brother, and I must say I really enjoyed your recent post on sanctification over on the other side of the forum!
The simple message is that we all have a choice between faithfulness to the Word of God or faithfulness to false teachings and false teachers – the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of Satan.
The Charismatic Movement would become, as Rev. B.H. Clendenen has pointed out, the “Trojan Horse” that would lead to the downfall of true Pentecost:
In 1956, the world saw the first meeting of the Charismatic Movement. That was the
day the horse came to our gate…When we allowed that horse on the inside, there came with
it many phony ideas and manifestations. We had reached the place we did not know what we
were hearing. This false thing knocked down the walls of separation and doctrinal purity.
Roman Catholics said the rosary in tongues, and Pentecostal believers thought it was real. A friend of mine was speaking at a Full Gospel Businessmen’s meeting in Denver. This wassoon after the Charismatic renewal began. He was the morning speaker, and a Mormon was
the night speaker. At the breakfast meeting, sitting by the Mormon, my friend said to him, “I am very anxious to hear you tonight. I’ve never heard the testimony of a Mormon who had
been born-again.” The Mormon said to him, “I don’t have that yet.” “What do you mean, you
don’t have that yet?” my friend asked. “I mean, I’ve not been born-again, but I talk in
tongues.” The horse is on the inside…Pentecost must not be watered down. The only way
the world could get in, and did get in, was through imitation. We fought the system of Babel
until the sword cleaved to our hand. We preached against a handshake religion. We stood
against all that was not Bible. That horse came to our gate – a Pentecostal antichrist, and he
fooled us. We had fought long and hard. We were tired. There he stood with his prayer
language, “Look,” he said, “I can do what you do.” It totally disarmed us, and we opened the
gate. There was nothing demanded; he came in as he was. We thought he had joined us, but
he led us to the slaughter. Fifty years of battlefield experience traded off, for a worldly crowd
with a taught tongue, a worldly dance, and a false Christ. The cost of this deception cannot be
calculated. The same sins that are in the world are now in the church. The nation sinks in a
moral crisis, healing has been reduced to a confession. Salvation is merely going to church,
and the baptism in the Holy Ghost is a taught tongue. We didn’t change the horse, he changed
us. And we called it “revival”.”
The Charismatic Movement traces its beginning to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon an
Episcopalian priest and many of those in his congregation in 1960. When Father Dennis Bennet, of St.
Mark’s Episcopal Church in Van Nuys, California, published his personal testimony of being baptized in the
Holy Spirit it wasn’t long before he was forced to resign by the denomination. Soon other leaders in the
historic Protestant denominations were experiencing the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of
speaking in other tongues. People who had never shown any evidence of the new birth suddenly began
speaking in tongues! In the late 1960’s Roman Catholics started receiving the baptism and the Catholic
Charismatic Movement was born. One has to wonder how people who are trusting in the salvation-by-works
gospel of the Roman Catholic Church, people who are practicing idolatry every time they partake of the
“Mass”, people who believe they were “born-again” when they were “baptized” into the church as an infant,
were baptized by the Spirit of Truth!
I’m sorry. I just don’t buy it. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A TRULY BORN AGAIN BIBLE BELIEVING CHRISTIAN TO BUY ANY OF IT.
Unsaved Protestants and Catholics getting baptized in the
Holy Ghost, speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance? My Bible says that one must be
saved in order to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. A believer. A born-again believer. I don’t have a
problem with the baptism or the tongues and I experienced it myself, after I was saved. I do have a problem,
however, when thousands of people who have shown no trace of true repentance and no inclination to put
away their idols speak in tongues and claim to be baptized in the Spirit.
A leading Catholic Charismatic wrote:
Baptism in the Holy Spirit leads to a greater love of Mary, a greater veneration of the
Pope, a greater submission to the Catholic Church, a more frequent attendance at mass, and a
greater authority in witnessing to these matters.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth who leads us into “all truth”, not errors such as these. I don’t
believe it. I’ve been called judgmental, unloving, and a Pharisee for saying so, but I just do not buy it. Not
now – not ever.
The Charismatic Movement has become the vehicle that the enemy is using to reunite the Protestant
denominations and the Roman Catholic Church, forming the “Great Harlot” of the last days. Right from the
beginning of the Latter Rain Movement to the present day there has been an emphasis upon an unscriptural
unity for the church A unity based not on the truth, but on the common experience being shared by those in
the revival. A unity based on “signs and wonders.”
“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.” Matt. 24:24
Mark 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
We must use all of the spiritual armour available to us in order to resist the delusion which has come upon the church.
Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
I Cor. 3:
18 ¶ Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool (let him reject worldly wisdom and accept Godly wisdom), that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21 ¶ Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
There is NO room here for blind allegiance to anointed ones (claiming to have special or secret revelations unable to be substantiated by the clear teaching of scripture) as the harlot church demands.
Matthew 24:24,
“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”
Matthew 24:
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (age)?
4 ¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you(or spirit being for that matter).
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (Many will preach that Jesus is the Christ.)
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
By implication, however, unfaithfulness will be punished severely.
2 Corinthians 11: 3-4
“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.”
Those who are new to what’s happening in the religious realm are probably unfamiliar with events that are taking place. There is a rapid move to try to unite all denominations worldwide. From the papacy to Pentecostals, from Lutherans to witch doctors, there is an incredible move to bring all religions together. Many bear the label of being Bible-believing or upholding the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, many have simply become vehicles and fronts of compromise and contradiction.
Great eye opening teaching, Wayne.
Praise God.
God bless you Jack. Thank you for your encouragement.
Praise God Watchful! I’m glad you were edified by that post :-)
It is very pleasing to see comments such as this one about the usurper church as the real issue facing people today is the loss of or prevention from ever receiving true or biblical salvation because of willingness to accept delusion in order to be part of the crowd.
The most pertinent comment is surely the warning:
The Charismatic Movement has become the vehicle that the enemy is using to reunite the Protestant
denominations and the Roman Catholic Church, forming the “Great Harlot” of the last days. Right from the
beginning of the Latter Rain Movement to the present day there has been an emphasis upon an unscriptural
unity for the church A unity based not on the truth, but on the common experience being shared by those in
the revival. A unity based on “signs and wonders.”
“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.” Matt. 24:24
Does the following sond like what has been going on around here latley?
Acts16:16
And it came to pass as we went to prayer a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying.
17 The same followed Paul (Andrew) and us and cried saying These men are the servants of the most high God which shew
unto to us the way of salavation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul being grieved
turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.And he came out the same hour.
Yes David,
I thought of that scripture as an illustration some time ago. My spirit also grieves. When sin in a person is not confessed and relinquished to the Lord Jesus Christ and His Blood, it leaves an open door for the unclean spirits to continually manifest their control of a person and then through that person their involvement in any present situation. It is just another form of witchcraft.
When we start looking for God to do some “New Thing”, some “thing” not revealed to us in
the scriptures, we are setting ourselves up for a strong delusion and giving place to the Devil! The
scriptures are clear – God has in these last days spoken to us through his son Jesus Christ. Since the
canon of scripture was completed with the inspired writings of the Apostles of our Lord, there has
not been, and will not be, any “new” revelation by God. The Bible makes this perfectly clear, with
warnings in the beginning, middle, and end of the scriptures – warnings against taking away from or
adding to the revelation of God to man contained in the Bible:
“Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away
from it.” (Deut. 12:32 NKJV)
“Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him; do not add to
His words, lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.” (Proverbs 30:5-6 NKJV)
“For I testify to everyone who heard the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds
to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes
away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of
Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” (Rev. 22:18-19 NKJV)
To these I could certainly add Isaiah’s admonition, “To the law and to the testimony! If they
do not speak according to this word it is because there is no light in them.” And many others.
The point is that if God gives any revelation to men today that revelation will line up perfectly with the
revelation He has already given “once for all” in His word. If it doesn’t then it is not from God. This
hunger for a “new thing” or “new revelation” reminds one of the pagan philosophers that Paul encountered
on Mars Hill, and the early Gnostic heretics:
“ For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either
to tell or to hear some new thing.” (Acts 17:21 NKJV)
R. C. Sproul writes:
The Gnostics were so called because of their view of revelation. The word gnosis is the
Greek word for knowledge. In many cases the Gnostic heretics did not make a frontal assault against
the apostles or against the apostolic teaching of scripture. In fact, many of them insisted that they
were genuine, Bible believing Christians. It wasn’t that they rejected the Bible; they just claimed an
additional source of knowledge or insight that was superior to or at least beyond the knowledge of
Scripture. The “gnostikoi” were “those in the know.” Their knowledge was not derived from
intellectual comprehension of Scripture or by empirical research, but was mystical, direct, and
immediate. God “revealed” private, intuitive insights to them that carried nothing less than divine
authority.
God is not giving any “new revelation” to men today. And neither is He doing any “new
thing” on the Earth. Any “thing”, any experience or knowledge that God has for his people will be
found in the scriptures. Any experience or knowledge that is not found among it’s pages is not for
God’s people. Yes, there are spiritual gifts, valid spiritual gifts – revelation gifts, like the word of
wisdom, the word of knowledge, and prophecy that I believe are just as valid for the Church today as
they were for the Church of the Apostles.
I have seen these gifts in operation in the Church, and have
experienced some of them myself and they are a beautiful thing both to behold and experience. Very
edifying. However, when the revelations that come through these gifts go beyond or contradict, or
add to or take away from the revelation of God contained in the Scriptures then they are nothing but
counterfeits. Experiences such as “slain in the spirit”, “holy laughter”, “drunkness in the spirit” and
most of the others that are coming with the so-called “revivals” at Toronto, Pensacola and other
places simply cannot be found anywhere in scripture. The leadership of these “revivals” know this
full well – and have stopped for the most part trying to defend them scripturally. Tricia Tillin writes:
John Wimber came from Quakerism. Is this why he has traces of the belief in the supremacy
of the inner revelation over and above the written word? In his book Power Evangelism Wimber
explains: “God uses our experiences to show us more fully what he teaches us in scripture, many
times toppling or altering elements of our theology and world view.” From Testing the Fruit of the
Vineyard, by John Goodwin (former pastor of the Calvary Chapel, San Jose [1990]) who traveled
extensively with John Wimber: “It is a common statement of Wimber’s that ‘God is greater than his
Word’. This means two things. First, that there is an essential truth in extra-biblical sources, and
secondly that the phenomena experienced by attendees of Vineyard seminars and church services do
not need to be validated by scripture. They could, according to Wimber, contradict God’s word and
still be ‘from the Lord.’”
If you can’t explain this out of the Bible than it’s not God.
Wayne,
Hate to tell you this, brother, but trying to read your posts is giving me a headache.
I’m too simple for all that. I just try to read my bible and do what it says. God’s patient with me. He knows how inept I am. I fail on a daily basis and it constantly amazes me that I manage to live through my mistakes. That’s my faith and His grace at work. All the credit goes to Him as it should. I continue to exist because of His grace.
When I gave Andrew the stuff I sent him, I trusted God to take it wherever He wanted. I suggest you do the same. You can’t make it happen no matter how many words you use. It’s not even your job. It’s His. If you are getting upset or frustrated, I’ll wager it’s because you’re taking something on that isn’t your’s to bear. All you’ll end up doing is missing what He is trying to say to you. Take His peace and rest knowing that He is in control.
My advice: Just breathe. God doesn’t need you to defend Him or His word. He’s quite capable of doing it without your help.
I’ve been sitting here for over an hour just reading and reading the dialogue here. I just pray that Wayne finds peace. I wonder from his sharing and preaching here if he may be a oneness pentecostal. The comments sounded familiar to me because myself have had been exposed to some good christians in this denomination.
I’ve learned, and I still have much to learn, but a spirit of arrogance sometimes permeates those who have the “full” truth. Like the hebrews were knew they were the chosen people, and had all the entitlements that a chosen people could have, a covenant with the true God of the universe. That would swell heads wouldn’t it? Well, they eventually got swelled heads and became very self-righteous. And, so with today’s christians.
Having full truth can turn a human being into a pharisee if they don’t contain their spirit. Because Satan loves to taunt a believer with the “full truth”. If a believer can’t control his passion to look down on others who only have the “milk” of the word, because he feels he has the “meat” of the word, then he is pharaseeical. It’s unfortunate, but it does happen, because we are all human and that’s our nature. Scripture warns us to be humble. I recall a oneness pastor saying that he would not want to smack someone on the side of the face with a piece of meat, so that is why he felt not to smack a newcomer with full-force indoctrination.
I’m not saying that the poster above thinks he has all truth. Am just sharing my experience with some who did believe they had been revealed all truth: Holiness, Oneness, baptism in the name of Jesus.
I became confused with this doctrine. I tried to understand a oneness compared to a trinity, and my brain hurt. LOL
I decided to let Jesus, my savior, give me the revelation of Who He is in His perfect timing. All I know is that He is there with me when I pray, when I worship. I feel his tender mercies all the day long, and do not have a doctrine to show for it. I’ve seen people who believe they have all truth wrestle with other things. I’ve observed those who’ve turned people away because they came on too strong with so many verses. Jesus is the good shepherd, tender, merciful. God is merciful with the merciful.
Just some thoughts to share here. Love you all on this site likes brothers and sisters.
Jonah preached for 100 years and barely saved his family.
Numbers must never be permitted to be the measure of success.
Compromise with false teaching for the sake of popularity with the world will result in eternal damnation. Those promoting compromise have a lot to answer for.
The TRUTH of the Word of GOD WILL prevail regardless of how many choose to avail themselves of the grace of GOD.
Hi Wayne,
I think you mean Noah don’t you, not Jonah? But did Noah save his family or did the Lord save him and his family?
“But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall enter the ark–you and your sons and your wife, and your sons’ wives with you.” (Gen 6:18 NASB)