THE SHAKING is GROWING – Andrew Strom
I want to spend most of this article talking about the massive SPIRITUAL shaking and sea-change that is underway. -And the OPPORTUNITIES for the true remnant of God in this. But first let us talk briefly about the “economic” shaking that is underpinning a lot of what is happening.
There are many signs appearing that another great “slowdown” in
the world economy is underway. As you know, we have predicted
“another wave down” and a “double dip depression”. Last week
new US unemployment claims jumped back up to 500,000. The
figures for July ‘existing’ home sales look to show the worst slump
that has ever been seen. (California and Texas report a -23%
collapse in the space of just one month). The human cost of all
this unemployment and economic mayhem is truly awful to contemplate.
But in the CHURCH I believe a great “shaking” is underway that
will ultimately bring about a great ‘purging’ and cleansing. You may
have noticed that a number of big-money ministries are suddenly
in trouble. I am hearing reports of others that I regard as “spreading
deception” falling into serious financial difficulty as well. I believe
God is going to use this economic crisis to “clean out” His church.
There is going to be a massive change at the top. The ‘Saulish’
leadership is going to be dethroned and the “Davids” will come forth.
We published a vision some time ago of the giant “trees” crashing
to the ground and the little sprouts suddenly springing forth. The
church has been dominated for too long by voices that have abused
and stolen and spread deception amongst the sheep. God is
coming to clean house, and it will not be “gentle”. The whip is in
His hand and He is about to drive the money-changers out. His
house is to be a “house of prayer” once more.
Two of my books from the past were spent prophesying of this very
time that we are now entering. The first was in 1996 – “The Coming
Great Reformation – New Insights into the Coming Worldwide
Shaking, Reformation and Street Revival.” The most recent was in
2008 – “Survive the Depression – The Shaking Has Begun.” (Links
for both of these at the end of this article).
A lot of people say to me, “Give up hope of the church being
cleansed or the false leaders being dethroned. We are in the time
of great Apostasy,” they say, “So just give up on any of that.”
And I say, “NO! I will not give up on the evil being dethroned from
God’s church, and the Body being cleansed, and the true gospel
being restored. Yes – we are in a time of great Apostasy (no-one
knows this more than I). But that does not mean that God has
lost His desire for a church that is “without spot or wrinkle or any
such thing.” I still believe we have time for one last great “cleansing”
and one last great Harvest. But it will come during a time of great
“storms” and hardship.”
POSITION Yourself
There are several ways that those who believe they have been
called into God’s ‘remnant’ for this hour can “position” themselves
to be part of what God is doing. Of course, PRAYER is the most
vital thing, but also-
(1) Get out of DEBT. Do not “hang on”, deep in debt for year after
year, hoping things will improve. They will NOT improve for YEARS.
Use whatever means possible, cut your losses and GET OUT. The
debt alone can prevent you from being where God wants you to be
in this crucial moment.
(2) Don’t get into a “bunker” mentality. Don’t be tempted to hide
yourself away with food and ammo in some basement somewhere.
For true Christians this crisis is a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to
show forth Christ to a dying world. Get INVOLVED – helping the
poor, preaching the true gospel. This is not a time for “hiding away”.
(3) Stop thinking of this crisis as a “doom and gloom” scenario
and start thinking of it as a time where God is setting things to
rights – purging the church and the nation of years of excesses
and poison. For the Christian who truly loves God and His
kingdom, this is literally the OPPORTUNITY of a LIFETIME to be
involved in this whole process. Only DEBTS or FEAR or an
unwilling heart can rob you of your place in this.
There is no time I would rather be in than right now. There is no
environment I would rather be in. This moment and this crisis are
exactly what God has been preparing us for. We are not to just
“survive” – we are to ‘THRIVE’ in this time. Many of the big
ministries are not designed to make it through such a crisis. When
finances drop they will fall apart. But many of us have been
specifically designed for this. Don’t waste it. A total “changing of
the guard” is underway. A revolution in leadership. Be about the
Lord’s work. Remember the long-forgotten promises and dreams
the Lord gave you years ago and prepare to enter into all that He
has promised. AMEN!!
Links to the books I mentioned are below. Also – please comment on this article.
E-BOOK (online) – “The Coming Great Reformation” -
http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/2010/04/10/the-coming-great-reformation-2
BOOK – “Survive the Depression – the Shaking has Begun”-
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0979907381/
Amen Andrew, I absolutely 100% agree with what you are saying and it is incredibly refreshing to my heart to hear you say this… :-)
Right on! I’m in a location where apathy and ‘same old’ is well entrenched, as well as the Part 1 gospel only (no Part 2 of being made into the image of Christ – no transformation)
So glad to hear you write: “There is no time I would rather be in than right now.” How I’ve hungered to hear someone speak those words. We are – privileged – to have been planted in these days. Instead of the false ‘getting out of here’ doctrine, where is the understanding of “Those that are last shall be first”? No people will have been more tested and put through the fires than the last days remnant, but if we do not see the glorious prize of attaining to the resurrection, we well may be inclined to give up before His work is completed in us.. All the coming suffering is meant to build gold into our nature – Isaiah 60:1 “Arise, shine, for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.” Jesus has need of such a people in the coming kingdom! Indeed, He cannot return until they are completed (Rev. 12:10,11) We must see the bigger picture….and it is glorious. It will make the difference – in finishing the race.
We as natural man look at the back side of the tapestry – the dangling threads, and see no beauty in this time, but if we ask God to show us His plan, the front of the tapestry, in the midst of chaos we see that ears will be unstopped, hearts will be opened, finally! And, in seeing His plan, we will indeed have Good News to give lost souls.
Andrew,
Thank you. I needed this today.
I’ve been a believer in Jesus all my life, but I didn’t know what the true gospel was until I was about 43. (And I thought I was a smart guy.)
Yes brother Andrew it is happening. The Lord has showed me years ago, that as a fire rages through a forest with distruction, in the end it purifys it to bring forth new life. The fire is coming to purify the church. It will be “without spot or wrinkle”.
Brother Ken
Just saying Amen here! Our family has been serving the Lord overseas, but just last month the Lord moved us to pack up and go and in a just a few weeks our family of six was back in the States. We have no idea where He will lead now. We feel fortunate all of our earthly possessions fit in 8 suitcases! (At least half of that is books since we homeschool.) We wish we knew the future, but we are excited that He’s preparing a place for us wherever it is, setting us up to minister to those coming out of the shaken church as it falls apart.
Yes, Andrew… I just read a book called “The Sons of Zadok” It is all about this.. It says the Sons of Zadok will rise and the time is now.. The sons of Elia are the false ones. If we are truly the children of the Most High Elohim, we will be Sons of Zadok to rise….
Blessings & Shalom,
debbi
Hello Andrew
A very good article and 100% right on and you know what you know for a fact if i thought other wise i would say so. And as i have stated before the very thing you say is going to happen is happening here in Adrian Mi. and i believe with in one year will be well on the road to a one Church with out spot or wrinkle.
We may have are diffrences Andrew but we are still brothers and the one part i can not get around is most of what we see is the same.
The rest will come out in the washing of the word and time.
That is if we dont forget the most important thing and that is to forgive and love one another.
A DIFFERENT VIEW POINT:
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I agree with a coming great shaking OF the church of the western world, (as a form of judgement or a reaping of what we have sown as a body, i.e. corparate responsibility), but I believe the Lord has shown me the following; i.e. that there will be many falling into even more deception and APOSTACY soon, some will abandon the faith altogether, others will continue in an increasingly deceived form of religion eventually joining the interfaith movement.
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The remnant of believers left in the western world will form a purer but also a far smaller church than we have today.
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Qu? How can we claim judgement is coming on the church in the west and also claim that this will be a triumphant successful time for Christianity in those nations? These things are surely incompatible? Also is there time to recover with the end times so close?
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I dont believe full scale, all out, revival is now coming to any western nation, (it will in many other nations though). Surely judgement in the west is the alternative not the source of revival?
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I do believe localised revivals will still occur after this in some cities in the west though as part of a greater global revival. I doubt very much whether the church here will regain the same numbers it presently has though.
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The remnant in the west will be a smaller but purer form of grassroots Christianity. Davids wont just take over the existing church power structures, (how would that even be possible?), or maintain the same scale of the church that exists today. As a result we will lose ground numerically and loose some of our present influence in secular society. Persecution is therefore looming. We need to prepare for this.
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We must learn to put our hopes in the age to come, (as scripture directs us), not in revivals in this age. For years western Christians have been led to expect triumph over the secular society in this world. As a result many have put our hopes in this age.This is no longer possible in terms of numbers, I believe time has run out. God will however have a purer church in the western world, one He can use as His witness in these nations. But time is short. The end times are already upon us. Lets fix our eyes on heaven not in triumphant triumphant in this age.
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We can serve God individually and triumph in our own lives for Christ but as a body the church in the west is in a terrible mess, we all know that. This couldnt be sorted out over night and time is short. Just raising up new leaders wont suddenly change everything, it runs deeper than that, to most members not just the leaders. We cant blame all this on the leadership, we are all responsible as a body. New Davids wouldnt even be enough to suddenly change the church here even if they were to suddenly appear. The kingdom of God will become more apparant and manifest amongst those who remain faithful to God though.
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Try http://www.propheciesfortoday.uk.com for the words that lead me to take this view – you may find you interpret them differently though.
Encouragement regarding: “A lot of people say to me, “Give up hope of the church being cleansed …”
The hype of some “prophets” and their obsession with talking about themselves and their ministries – and it looking like many maybe chasing experiences that (at best) do not seem to lead to enduring fruit (Gal 5:22) — can be discouraging. But thankfully these “ministers” overestimate their influence. In their sub culture they may seem like a big deal — but even if they have 30 million followers (and I suspect it is closer to 3 than 30) ; that is still less than one half of one percent of the world.
God loves each individual and wants none to be deceived; so I grieve for the misled — but I also Hope in His Love. It is a great time to see how He Builds His Church — and to think, He chose us before the foundation of the World to have the privilege of being part of it… it leads to tears. — This is so MUCH less boring than listening to people talk about “their ministry.”
It also helps to remember that we in the west are just part of His Body. Those serving to the Lord in Central and Eastern Asia, Africa, … understand that faith effects everything you do or it is not what you really believe. Since they are born in danger they commit everything to Him. And the Church is growing rapidly — yes, there are true signs and wonders; but no less powerful is their involvement and impact on their communities. Visiting there is like seeing the fulfillment of Isaiah 32.
Jesus is building His Church and no “prophet” or “apostle” will stop Him. But for the sake of lost and the bad reps that are created — I am thankful that you speak/write as you do, Andrew.
By His Grace we can be part of the Bride making herself ready.
Steve – I do not believe the ‘Davids’ will take over the old institutions as such. But they will arise to lead the church forward. A “new wineskin” must be expected.
-Andrew.
Hallelujah! this is encouraging indeed.
Very good article Andrew. May eyes and ears be opened. The firey cleansing continues.
Spot on comments!
My 2 cents: True Christians love everything and everybody!
Not easy to do, much easier to say. Love everything and everybody!
Like good kings and emperors of old, we must make tough decisions, especially in letting others receive their own way… back onto themselves… but the best thing is to get out of God’s way in the affairs of men… and love everything and everybody. Sure we warn, but we don’t have the right to meddle or judge.
It just takes faith and love to believe God’s way with others works best when we love others, insofar as we give mercy to others, we receive needed mercy back.
Steve, I totally agree with what you wrote. I have felt for a long time it is futile to pray for any more large scale revivals in the West. It is too late, judgment is already upon us. This is it guys, it has begun, and disaster and persecution will only get worse here on in. I think it is interesting that hebrews 110 felt the Lord had called them back to the States. Not disputing this at all, maybe in your case that is exactly where He wants you, but it seems in general He is calling some believers to leave the US. The true believers in Christ will find themselves increasingly isolated and persecuted in this world, and our difference between those who pretend to know Christ and those who are in the world, will become more and more distinct. We will become a anomaly in this world, and at the least, ridiculed (even by ‘professing’ christians) and at the worst persecuted by the world in stronger and stronger ways. It will get to the point where to remain in employment in some industries, you will be faced with the choice of hiding your convictions in Christ, or face losing your job due to your ‘bigotry’ (ie refusing to compromise and call evil good and good evil). It is only those of us like Mimiac reminded us, who do not love their lives unto death (Rev 12:11) who will overcome and receive the crown of life. Truly saved children of God are now being refined, in the particular circumstances they are in, as to prepare them for this coming tribulation. This is when we are more than ever going to shine like a city on a hill, and be the salt of the earth because of our love for the Lord Jesus and our committment to Him, and the world will hate us for it. The only good thing I can see about this coming time (which is at the door and beginning now) is that those who have gotten away with using the name of Jesus to falsely proclaim themselves a child of God will not last, and their false christianity will crumble in the dust, exposing their true hearts state. I believe this is already happening. Start to look closely at the dymanics going on within your own social and familial circles. There will be opportunities for you to stand as a bold witness for the truth of Jesus in situations, purely by your actions and words as the Lord leads, while those false christians amongst you will run away like cowards, and slink away like snakes in the face of true persecution or in any event that requires them to take a personal stand for our blessed Lord Jesus Christ.
I honestly cannot see anywhere in the Word where it says that what Andrew has written about will occur, other than it is going to get worse economically and in general. Andrew, it is no slight on you, just expressing my view as a sister in Christ.
God bless you all brothers and sisters,
and may God be with you.
Truthseeker – there are many who share your view.
“Apostasy only – all the way to the end”
But the great problem I have with it is that Christ’s beautiful Bride never gets displayed at all to the world. In fact, she never becomes “beautiful” at all. All the world gets to see is ugliness.
To all appearances, only a “filthy apostate” representation of Christ’s bride is ever seen by much of the planet.
This I cannot accept.
Something remains to happen – at least with a sizeable “remnant” – and that is CHRIST BEING TRULY GLORIFIED IN HIS CHURCH
It happened in Acts, it happened in many of the Awakenings – and I believe it needs to happen at the very end in one last majestic display.
Apostasy? -Yes. Darkness growing darker? -Yes. But a glorious “remnant” Bride in the midst – just like Acts. I cannot and will not settle for Christ receiving any less glory.
God bless you!
Andrew
WE GET THE LEADERSHIP THE MAJORITY HAVE CHOSEN:
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Is this really just a leadership problem? Or do we get the leaders we choose to support? Who peoples itching ears want to hear?
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The present erroneous leaders have great influence because they are the ones most Christians in the west have chosen to follow. And they have already chosen not to follow to the better ministries, for eg David Wilkerson (and is he not already a new David?). So people have already been turning their backs on the Davids for decades. God wont force them upon people against their will as thats not His way. God has given people freewill. Instead they will reap the deceptive forms of “Christianity” they have chosen to follow. There will be even greater apostasies and a falling away will soon come. A form of judgement on the church of the west.
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Even if the dodgy ministries dissappeared new ones would replace them and give people what their tickling ears want to hear.
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For new Davids to gain influence in the church the supporters of the God Channel, Bentley, Joyner, Jones, IHOP etc would have to decide to repent and stop following them, then completely change their views and start following new Davids instead. They would have to decide to die to the flesh, take up their crosses etc but for decades have alreday chosen not to do that. In reality we know thats not going to happen any time soon. Its not a realistic hope. It doesnt add up. We have the leaders of influence that the majority have choosen to follow and are about to reap the consequencies of this.
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IF THE MAJORITY WANTED NEW DAVIDS THEY WOULD ALREADY BE FOLLOWING THE BETTER MINISTRIES THAT EXIST TODAY BUT THE THEY DONT AND GOD WILL NEVER FORCE PEOPLE TO;
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Views and predictions derived and interpreted from http://www.propheciesfortoday.uk.com
Even King David was invited to be leader of Israel by the people themselves. Theres no shortage of new Davids in the west but people have chosen not to follow them, and God has given us all free will. As a body we will therefore reap the deceptive forms of Christianity that we have sown. This is not primarily a leadership issue.
Steve.
Andrew, I do agree that Christ will be glorified in his remant church in the last days, and believe we are already being refined for this. I, just like Steve though believe this will be displayed out at a grass roots level, as we shine as small pockets or as individuals amongst our own local communities and societies. I don’t believe it will involve any large scale revival. I agree with you, this is a crucial time and we have been made for such a day as this. I don’t tend to agree with the false prophets and ministries being bought down though, I believe they will continue to exist as the decieved who have been given over to deception continue in their apostasy. There are many things in your article that ring true for me, other than I believe a door has closed and no large scale revival will occur in the West. I believe the false sheep leaders will be allowed to continue leading their false sheep into hell right up until the end. I wholeheartedly agree with you that two of the main ways we ourselves can be prepared is to get our of personal debt (stop buying worthless consumer items too, this is not the time to buy more new stuff you won’t even be taking with you to heaven, and won’t even need in a short time), and to refuse to allow fear to hold us back. I just tend to diagree with the way this all will be displayed out by the Lord. It will be more localised in our personal and individual interactions, rather than a large scale obvious removal of the false teachers. That is what I believe I am being shown by the Lord anyway. I do agree with the general underlying premise of your article though.
I agree with Steve and Truthseeker. And when I re-read Brother Andrew’s, I think it doesn’t contradict. Maybe some of us just don’t see the awakening/purging of the church in the same spectacular way that he does.
For example, in your last post, Andrew, you believe that Christ’s beautiful bride must be displayed. Let us remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The faithful remnant WILL BE a glorious bride in the eyes of our Savior, but she will be a dispicable and hated creature in the eyes of His enemies. We cannot change that.
I also believe that although Christ will be glorified in His remnant church in these last days, that the world as a whole will not recognise it, or honour Him as a result. Rather as He is glorified in our refusal to succumb to the incresingly evil system and world they will hate us all the more, EXCEPT for those chosen to belong to Gods kingdom, they will recognise the Lord Jesus in us and be saved. Basically it is crunch time for everyone.
God bless
Steve – I agree with you, at least in part.
It is not just a leadership issue. The people have followed their “itching ears” and gotten the leaders they deserve.
But the West (particularly the USA) is being “taken to the woodshed” and I believe a lot of this desire for foolishness and shallowness is literally going to be “ground” out of her. It is already underway. “Thriftiness” is coming back. People don’t spend unless they have to, etc, etc. A total change in attitude is underway.
And it will greatly affect the church. People will start wanting “real” leaders who tell it like it is – and don’t make a “show” out of it.
We are in for a dose of “reality” – and the old will suffer for it’s lack thereof.
Truthseeker: Aye, there’s the rub: “Christ will be glorified in His remant church in these last days, that the WORLD as a whole will not recognise it, or honour Him as a result.”
Problem is, bro, some ARE already glorified already. You honor them?
Does anybody?
How about we honor Dave Larsen for his love on top of love on top of love!!!
Nope? Well, we have got to love each other, truthseeker. EACH OTHER!
Get ready to honor people among us in the land of the living, manifesting Christ in great glory! We must honor those in LOVE, POWER and SOUND MIND!
Don’t worry about the world not honoring Christ. Worry about you honoring another bloke or “blokesss” who shames us with their Christ-light!
THAT’s how it’s going to play out. You are thinking in the right direction, just take it farther! And as soon as you start (and we all start) honoring Christ-manifestors among us…. we’ll be so imbued!!!
But right now, we’re so full of pride we don’t stop to honor anybody manifesting much of Christ. We just want to pound the gospel into unbelievers, when we ourselves don’t even believe Christ returns now in others (and ourselves!!!) to accomplish Father’s will.
I love your name truthseeker. That is manifesting Christ! Keep on, bro or sis!
We must say, “Bless you for coming in the nature (name) of the LORD, else our house (our spiritual abode) remain desolate (even further from allowing God to manifest Himself in our souls)!!!!!!!
Just another point. When we pray for revival (in my opinion) we are in-directly praying for the fire to come. Because when the fire does it’s cleansing, God can do a greater work. Remember the early church. Paul in prison, shipwrecked, stoned, etc. Peter and John were also jailed. During that time the church was doing some of it’s best work. Years latter there was even worse persecution of the church. Some will say “when the persecution comes oh well I guess we can’t have church like we use too”. Good! We want to finaly be the church as it’s suppose to be. Yes a leaner, cleaner, meaner church (so to speak). Yes there are those that will go on to more apostasy and continue on in deception but those who “know Him” will be used the do the work of the church in these last days. As we lay ourselves down on the altar as a living sacrifice (ROM 12:1) we will be doing this as others go in to apostasy. That is the cross we have to carry. As our famileis, our co-workers, our church friends go the way of the world, we have to stand in full armor ready for battle (Eph 5). Jesus said “they hated me, so they will hate you also”. But on the other hand God is rich and mercy and abundant in grace. The mission of the church will still be: To go into all the world preaching the gospel, baptizing them in the name of the father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to do and observe all that I have commanded you. That job is never done. Daniel said we would “shine as lights” in these times. So we can all say together: This little light of mine I’m gonna let it shine!
Brother Ken
Yes, His true church will arise for all to see amen…… It is the Lord’s will to be done in all things not ours or what we think or what we want.. Would I love to see everyone wake up sure amen, do I think that is going to happen no.. The word of Yahweha says many will fall away we are seeing that happen now…..
just my two cents…
Shalom,
debbi
For those of you who see the present situation and see no hope of any kind of reform to occurr to the Church, let me present a possible senario:
You are sitting at home, watching GOD TV, or TBN, or Inspiration channel, let’s say your watching the Great Satan, Mike Murdock, and all of a sudden, He falls dead on the floor. As in horror you change the channel you find that Benny Hinn, Rodney-Howard Brown and other so called “Leaders” have also fallen dead all at once. And not only them, but many of those in the audience are also and just as suddenly fallen DEAD on the floor. There are two sitting together, one is “taken” and the other one is left. Then accross the ocean the same thing is happening elsewhere too.
As it happens, in one single hour, millions of false teachers, prophets, and church leaders have suddenly fallen dead and are no more. What kind of upheavel would that cause?
What I have just described is an event that is rarely if any time spoken about. I’m not talking about some “rapture” I’m talking about the scriptural “harvest of the tares” also known in other parts of scripture as the fall of Mystery Babylon the Great. What would happen is that Judgment has just begun at the house of God and great fear of God is sweeping across the Nations as people are having their hearts prepared for a great revival…the second half of Joel’s prophecy, the “Latter rain” prophecy of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Well, that just would not fit in a lot of other peoples’ idea of fulfilled prophecy, yet if you read the scriptures as a whole, what you find is this very senario playing out repeatedly throughout all the prophets of the Old Testament.
People always miss out on the finer points of Biblical prophecy, Jesus own disciples did, and we will too. Not until the whole world is asking “what happened” will real Christian leaders go back to the scriptures and re-discover the answers to this great “harvest of the tares” spoken of in Matthew chapter 13 and other places in the New Testament, This is the time of cleansing of the people of God, this is the cleansing of the Bride to make her without spot wrinkle or blemish. That would do it. Nothing like a good dose of the “fear of the Lord” to shake people up to their core and straighten them out to what is really important…seeking God out to give the hard answers to questions that nobody seems to have at the time.
Just think about this for a while, check me out scripturally, but leave the traditional thinking on the table for now, just pick up the Bible and see if these things are not so, and get ready for the real shaking about to happen.
RA
2 Qus?
i) Is there time for a reformation of the western church which is so set in its self centred lukewarm earthbound ways? (If the end times are coming then surely not?)
ii)Is a smaller remnant that moves on to a purer N/T footing actually a reformation? (if so then maybe there is not so much of a contradiction here as it seems).
Wingedlion: Ditto (above) what I said to Truthseeker. Would we rathe that baby leaders die in front of baby sheep…. or bless mature in-Christ God-bearers now… that we show ourselves mature, not vengeful sheep who are also immature?
Donde esta la amor? Where is the love? Right now, right in Christ, in honoring those who already walk in manifested Christ POWER, LOVE & SOUND MIND. Comprende? Understand?
Tu quiero. I love you. Tu amor.
Because every night those folk you mention ALREADY die every night on TV. I speak spiritually.
What I don’t see, even in this blog site, is love and honor to the now Christ indwelt.
Sadly, I see pontificators each in their own way, delaying Christ’s indwelling in themselves because rather than honor actual individuals who are now living in Christ in the next era, so many simply see some dark future… (of themselves, really) that is an ink blot imagination of something from the Bible. And no love.
Look for the posts with love. That’s the future. That’s the key. That’s God, now!
WE WILL REAP WHAT IS BEING SOWN:
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People used to look to prophets to change the church, now its a new leadership of Davids that are the latest great hope. We will reap what we sow though so what we need to do is examine whats being sown in the west today. So what is actually happening at ground level in the real world? We need to look at the state of the church in the west overal, if it is not seeking holiness then holiness preachers wont become popular or gain any great influence and if its not prayerful then revivals wont occure. It is increasing deception that is being sown today so the fruit of deception is what will be reaped – Apostacy and a falling away which will leave a shaken up but more earnest remnant.
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I think God raised up revivalists in the pst in response to the prayers and supplication and submission of many Christians for years, even decades, before that. I dont believe revivalists caused revivals or that new Davids can change the hearts of todays Christians. We have the scriptures and words of Jesus, if people dont respond to these then they wont listen to new preachers either.
The thing most are missing is what you have seen and call church has been done mens way. What you are about to see is going to be done Gods way and few have seen any thing like what is about to happen. You all leave out the most important factor and that is that our God is the mighty God of all creation and nothing is to hard for him. He does not need every one to agree only a few and he will do mighty things that all would say can not be done. Are Father is getting ready to put some new wine in some new skins and all i can say is stand back and look out. I know for myself i have been to the main churches in this town and my Father says he will not wait and do things the way men want he has told me that men in the earth have no idea how great His power is well the whole world is about to find out we do not serve a weak and tiny God we are the children of the most high God the creator of all things and nothing is to hard for Him.
If presently most people dont listen to or follow the better existing preachers then why would they listen to new ones, (new Davids) who would preach exactly the same message?
Maybe its a case of “its harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle”? And the western church is rich by comparison to the others??
[As for the love entry above - (Roberts) - I noticed that all he is doing is criticising others for not having enough love which is not very loving and somewhat hypercritical].
I’d be interested to see how the Lord has shown you this scripturally Andrew, to see how it fits with what I believe He has shown me..Keeping in mind that we know in part and see through a mirror dimly, and that He seldom does things the way our mind might form the idea of what He is saying, and also that with the Lord there can be a sense of imminent urgency even though something might be years away from happening, but this is what I understand He has shown so far:
That the visible church has lost it’s saltiness and is therefore fit only to be thrown out and trampled by men. (could this trampling be when the beast turns on the harlot?)
That He is in process of breaking off the unnatural branches (gentile church) by spewing out of His body so that the natural branches (Jews) can be grafted back in, as He promised He would do. I believe this has started to happen.
He also showed me that just as the Jews were the old wineskin that the new wine (gospel) could not be poured into 2000 years ago, that now at the end of this age, the same thing is true in reverse, that the largely gentile church has become the old wineskin and the Jews have become the new wineskin as far as ushering in the millenial age is concerned. (remembering what Solomon said about history repeating itself)
However, that said, the bible also says that at the time the wedding banquet is prepared those who are invited (church) are too occupied with carnal pursuits to come and so His servants were sent out to the highways and byways to bring in the poor the lame and the blind, etc. For sure I believe this speaks of revival, and “His servants” I believe will be the remnant church and not a revived version of what we see as the (false) visible church, though I believe some may still be rescued to “come out of her”.
Also, I put forward the possibility (and ask that you test it), that the Lord is speaking in parable form (He speaks to us in parables, without a parable He does not speak) through a certain situation involving a well-known TV evangelist who was photographed recently in Rome with a well-known female mega-church pastor, walking hand-in-hand out of a hotel together. One is in process of being divorced, just recently announced in the spring, the other was divorced fairly recently, maybe a couple years ago or so I think. Both chose to claim in their synchronized letters that they were in Rome because they had business with the Vatican – they were taking steps to become Patrons of the Arts for the Vatican by helping support the upkeep of the Vatican art collection (some of which I’m sure our Holy God must consider to be nothing but well-painted or sculpted pornography), and one of these two also said he was in Rome to discuss future “ministry opportunities” with the Vatican. What could this all be speaking to us as a parable about the (visible) charismatic church?…
Firstly, it speaks of DIVORCE between God and the church, and when an unfaithful wife was divorced she often had to turn to harlotry to survive – see the harlotry here of running to take shelter with the Vatican in order to save face and fortune. Secondly, MERGER, on more than one level – (we won’t talk about the obvious) but the possibility of these two ministries merging like two big corporations because of course it makes good business sense in lean times, and merger with the Vatican, the harlot being cast out of her Husband’s home returning home to the mother of harlots – speaking of ECUMENICALISM and CONSOLIDATION OF POWER in the church (so worldly – doesn’t this speak of the nature of the beast that the harlot rides). This whole situation I believe exposes and warns of the direction that the entire false church is moving in and not just these two ministries..
So I honestly don’t see revival in the church per se, sincerely wish I did, but on the contrary I sadly believe consciences are being seared..of church leaders and their followers if they continue on the way they have been doing in spite of the Lord exposing their whoredoms..but He is coming only for a pure virginal Bride who will not call evil good or good evil. I believe revival will be on a more home-grown level, but full of genuine power, with the remnant church taking the gospel to the streets, to our needier neighbours and the like, as you also have talked about before Andrew. I find I still need to wash my mind of the old images I have of single “super-star” ministers and packed out churches because I have a hunch that what the Lord will do through the remnant will not look quite the same as that old picture of revival. It will likely be more along the lines of the early church.. but if not, either way, I want to be a blank slate for the Lord to write on whatever His plan is so to speak, and so be ready for what comes..
Hi “Steve”,
Do you you intercede for the Church? Paul interceded for the Church, some of his prayers are recorded in the new testament; Jesus interceded for the Church during His time on earth, His prayer in John 17 expresses His passion for His Church and He “always lives to make intercession for us” the book of Hebrews tells us.
Paul tells us, “imitate me as I imitate Christ”?
In your imitiation of Paul and Christ to date “Steve” what has the Lord shown you about His heart for His Church “which is His Body” (Ephesians 5)?
Love in Christ, Andrew
No, I do not sit and watch TBN or any TV preachers, I read the word of Yahweha….. Do I believe souls will be saved in these last days YES!!!!
Yes, I pray for hearts to be open and minds to the Gospel..
All I know I am supposed to keep my lamp full of oil and be about my Father’s business….
Shalom,
debbi
Correction:
“Paul tells us, “imitate me as I imitate Christ”…
Praise God Andrew,
The Lord is going to save a great multitude in these last days and He will bring swift judgment to this earth.
YES, AMEN Andrew J ,, We are to be Jesus with skin on, to the world around us right where we live and work and minister….
Shalom
I agree. 35 years ago God told us that the church isn’t ready for us yet. That means that one day it will be. I feel that it is near. In fact our movie company we started is called YET Production. Been a long hard, lonely road to travel. But I am encouraged at the age of 60 that we will see it transpire.
I agree with this, Andrew, 110 %! I admit i did not read through all the comments posted here, so i am not sure if this was mentioned…anyway i heard tonight on public radio that the Giant Oak tree in Amsterdam fell to the ground today, this was the same tree that Ann Frank journaled about in her days. The woman who runs the Ann Frank museum over there, stated that no one was hurt, no property damage, but it did come down very fast. Not sure if this has a prophetic undertone or not, just thought i would mention this. As for the suggestions, Brother Andrew, I have been locked in prayer for some time now concerning my debt, (mostly Student loans) and how to rid myself of it and all i can say is money is tight everywhere. I don’t want to ever forget the dreams and visions Yahweh gave me, in regards to my specific role in the End Times…honestly, i try to run from it at times and He will not let me forget. I keep hearing the same thing over and over again….Watch and Pray. Thank you brother Andrew, maybe i will see you in Wisconsin sometime again. Tell the family hello for me and blessings to you all. Love, Linda Dutter
We are giving the wicked leaders too much credentials. They are the wolves Jesus mentioned in Jn.10.12, who scatter the sheep. That is why we are all scattered, & isolated. Satan’s ministers are false apostles, deceitful workers, who have transformed themselves into ministers of righteousness. But they preach another Jesus, another gospel, & another spirit.
The institutionalized “church” that is displayed in public is not the true body of Christ. This is the counterfeit fabricated by Satan. Always has been, always will be. The real ekklesia has never been honored in this fallen world. We need to cast down our vain imaginations, and be thankful to follow Jesus on a daily basis. We know almost nothing about what God is going to do.
two of my friends just died here 2 weeks ago when the bus they were in went over a cliff. 43 other people died as well.
trying to have an eternal perspective, but its hard.
Do i want revival yes. Am i expecting it? not really.
hope i am wrong. When i left the states 2 years ago i felt like Lot leaving Sodom. I cant look back. The big name false prophets are known here but the small ones are unheard of. Even the preachers who respect Strom are still trying to build bigger earthly structures. When will people start to value people more than buildings?
not one stone will be left upon another.
Well I’ve taken a good hour and read all that is here, that’s alot.
I will admit to some confusion. I will also admit some of the deeper things escape me so far.
I will say what I know though. Last year many thousands of true beleivers who know little scripture and less doctrine, were murdered, raped or imprisoned and tortured for their Love of Our Lord. For them the great trials can get no worse, and they make us all look rather petty and insignificant with our deep thoughts and prophecies. With our “finally the rich deceivers will be brought down”, and “we need to pay down our debts”.
What I see is a rather simple matter. Looking to Jeruselum as my timepeice of Gods movements, Natural disasters, economic devistaion and perhaps wars with WMD are coming.
When these come, those of US who beleive upon Our Lord, wil either run to Him and grow, or faint and give in to the worlds comforts.
Those who chose to turn to God will be both persecuted and blessed, those who seek comfort from the world will be chastised or show themselves to be lost.
In all, we are in for a soon coming storm, we who have not been tried in the ways of the blessed brothers and sisters elsewhere have endured, we certainly shall share their cup of tribulation.
We will have need of each other, and the world will see the Lord by our love and caring for one another, and towards the lost.
Lastly, I would encourage us all to spend one hour at:
http://www.persecution.com/
These uneducated, horribly impoverished, Saints (whom The Lord said, “The world is not worthy of them”) have seen their children burned alive, daughters and wives gang raped, slaughtered and thown in dank wet cells for year after year, and in many cases know fewer than the dozen verses they have memorized.
Have we prayed with the diligence we are looking to the future for ourselves? I can give you some comfort. If not, if you’ve been waiting for “OUR” coming storm, you will never be worthy of the suffering so many have endured, and unworthy to tie their shoes.
God will never give us more than we can handle, therefore I surmise we will never know their cross, sadly. But in the meantime lets crucify the false teachers and “get ready” for our troubles.
Isaiah 28 NIV:
Woe to Ephraim
1 Woe to that wreath, the pride of Ephraim’s drunkards, to the fading flower, his glorious beauty, set on the head of a fertile valley— to that city, the pride of those laid low by wine!
Who’s wine? – Revelation 17:2
What spirit? – 1 John 4:1
2 See, the Lord has one who is powerful and strong. Like a hailstorm and a destructive wind, like a driving rain and a flooding downpour, he will throw it forcefully to the ground. 3 That wreath, the pride of Ephraim’s drunkards, will be trampled underfoot. 4 That fading flower, his glorious beauty, set on the head of a fertile valley, will be like a fig ripe before harvest— as soon as someone sees it and takes it in his hand, he swallows it.
5 In that day the LORD Almighty will be a glorious crown, a beautiful wreath for the remnant of his people. 6 He will be a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment, a source of strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate. 7 And these also stagger from wine and reel from beer: Priests and prophets stagger from beer and are befuddled with wine; they reel from beer, they stagger when seeing visions, they stumble when rendering decisions. 8 All the tables are covered with vomit and there is not a spot without filth.
9 “Who is it he is trying to teach? To whom is he explaining his message? To children weaned from their milk, to those just taken from the breast? 10 For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; [a] a little here, a little there.”
11 Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people, 12 to whom he said, “This is the resting place, let the weary rest”; and, “This is the place of repose”—but they would not listen.
Hebrews 3
13 So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there— so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured.
14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scoffers who rule this people in Jerusalem. 15 You boast, “We have entered into a covenant with death, with the grave [b] we have made an agreement. When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by, it cannot touch us, for we have made a lie our refuge and falsehood [c] our hiding place.”
16 So this is what the Sovereign LORD says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed.
17 I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line; hail will sweep away your refuge, the lie, and water will overflow your hiding place. 18 Your covenant with death will be annulled; your agreement with the grave will not stand. When the overwhelming scourge sweeps by, you will be beaten down by it. 19 As often as it comes it will carry you away; morning after morning, by day and by night, it will sweep through.” The understanding of this message will bring sheer terror.
20 The bed is too short to stretch out on, the blanket too narrow to wrap around you.
This verse has been on my heart for the last month or so. Wednesday we had a new mattress delivered – a king size.
21 The LORD will rise up as he did at Mount Perazim, he will rouse himself as in the Valley of Gibeon— to do his work, his strange work, and perform his task, his alien task.
22 Now stop your mocking, or your chains will become heavier; the Lord, the LORD Almighty, has told me of the destruction decreed against the whole land.
23 Listen and hear my voice; pay attention and hear what I say. 24 When a farmer plows for planting, does he plow continually? Does he keep on breaking up and harrowing the soil? 25 When he has leveled the surface, does he not sow caraway and scatter cummin? Does he not plant wheat in its place, [d] barley in its plot, [e] and spelt in its field?
26 His God instructs him and teaches him the right way. 27 Caraway is not threshed with a sledge, nor is a cartwheel rolled over cummin; caraway is beaten out with a rod, and cummin with a stick. 28 Grain must be ground to make bread; so one does not go on threshing it forever. Though he drives the wheels of his threshing cart over it, his horses do not grind it.
29 All this also comes from the LORD Almighty, wonderful in counsel and magnificent in wisdom.
Footnotes:
a. Isaiah 28:10 Hebrew / sav lasav sav lasav / kav lakav kav lakav (possibly meaningless sounds; perhaps a mimicking of the prophet’s words also in verse 13
b. Isaiah 28:15 Hebrew Sheol ; also in verse 18
c. Isaiah 28:15 Or false gods
d. Isaiah 28:25 The meaning of the Hebrew for this word is uncertain.
e. Isaiah 28:25 The meaning of the Hebrew for this word is uncertain.
Yesterday morning this passage came on the heels of the Isaiah passage, bringing it to mind once again:
Hebrews 12:22-29
22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
25See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”[e] 27The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.
28Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29for our “God is a consuming fire.”[f]
Footnotes:
Hebrews 12:26 Haggai 2:6 !!!!!
Hebrews 12:29 Deut. 4:24 !!!!!
“Created things” – While My impression is that the “created things” take in even what The Creator has created, (as distinct from begotten) yesterday morning the focus was on things that man had made and done – manufactured things, human creations, constructions, human doing.
We moved to Golden Valley for a number of reasons, one of them was the sense that we needed to go to a “low place,” Isaiah 40:1-5.
When a “low place” is shaken, there isn’t so much to “be removed.” Rutherford County, North Carolina is among the poorer counties in America. There’s not much here to crash.
All this just to say, I am still where I was about a year ago – with a need to focus not on the economy of doing, but rather the economy of being, the economy that doesn’t shake, and beginning with the elders in front of the temple, Ezekiel 9:6.
Bless You Today!
I might be mistaken, but it feels like I’m missing an important ingredient in this whole discussion. Rev 3 tells us that God gave Jezebel time to repent from her adulteries. This was a priority over her ultimate judgment and public exposure. A true,repentance from the heart is always God’s first wish. All too often we are like James and John in Luke 9, wanting to call fire down from heaven to destroy the enemies of the cross. Peter says God’s patience is salvation and that he literally puts the day of judgment on hold because he wants people to repent before there is no turning back.
Jezebel can repent, as impossible as that may sound. Furthermore, we should pray for and work towards her repentance, no matter how foul the taste in our mouths as a result of her works.
I also have a feeling that we have reached a point of no return as far as the “Jezebel ministries” are concerned. I live and minister in Africa, and I also believe that the great revival winds of yesteryear are showing up on our continent and other places that used to be thought of as the “mission fields”. I also believe that the missionaries will come from these places in the future whilst the so-called Christian Western World will slide deeper and deeper into apostasy. And so I agree wholeheartedly with Andrew and the rest of you.
However, there is one more thing that I believe. I believe there are many sincere men and women who bought into the lie of the prosperity preachers and their false gospel. They are deceived, yes, but this is the time for their repentance. It is in the nature of sheep to shuffle along with the flock, which is why we cannot harbor the same attitude towards the tearful, praying people in their wheelchairs as we have towards the guy in his white suit strutting up and down on the stage. This is why Jude, in his brilliant prophetic polemic against the scoffers of the last days, instructs us to “have mercy on those who doubt” and to “save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.”
I know godly pastors who swallowed this stuff hook, line and sinker. They’ve never questioned it as it appeared to have been working quite nicely, and so they helped spread the lie. I believe this is the time and opportunity for their repentance. Apostasy is a time of sifting, and we may end up very surprised at the outcome.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
love,
Sarah
“And unless the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect which HE hath chosen, HE hath shortened the days.” Mark 13:20
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. Matthew 24:22
Many scriptural passages indicate that God will intervene to save the “elect” or those who remain faithful to the end from the destruction coming upon the earth.
I find it extremely difficult to reconcile your expectation of a glorious ending for the church with the reality of Bible prophecy.
We do seem to be living in a day when the tares are in process of being bundled and the wheat is being gathered into the barn (sheltered).
Zep 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the Lord’s anger.
The call of the Lord is to “come out of her”, not so that He can cleanse her (He is not interested in cleansing Babylon – she has nothing to do with Him, she is not His bride.) but so that we can be sheltered from judgment..
Jer 51:44 I will punish Bel in Babylon and make him spew out what he has swallowed. The nations will no longer stream to him. And the wall of Babylon will fall.
Jer 51:45 “Come out of her, my people! Run for your lives! Run from the fierce anger of the Lord.
Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
Is the gospel being restored to the harlot church, or is it being restored to the remnant that comes out of her? I don’t see the Lord restoring the gospel to a fleshly religious system that never had His blessing in the first place, though He bore patiently with it for a very long time. Rather it seems He is letting this system run it’s course in our day to let it’s bad fruit come forth and be evident, so that He is justified in finally judging it. What He desires to restore is the tabernacle of David, ie, a wilderness tabernacle, with only one King who is not flesh – Jesus.
Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old..
Act 7:45 Having received the tabernacle, our fathers under Joshua brought it with them when they took the land from the nations God drove out before them. It remained in the land until the time of David,
Act 7:46 who enjoyed God’s favor and asked that he might provide a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.
Act 7:47 But it was Solomon who built the house for him.
(In other words David only ever had a tabernacle – portable and ‘windward’, ie, able to be moved by the Holy Spirit, a spiritual house that he worshiped in, not a house built by human hands.)
Act 7:48 “However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men. As the prophet says:
Act 7:49 ” ‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?
Act 7:50 Has not my hand made all these things?’
Wayne, I hesitate writing this, but I do feel compelled.
I do not beleive many of the “visions” I hear so often. I find it plausible they are the overactive imaginations of good intentions, so I relate with some trepidation mine and my grandfathers, regarding your comment.
My grandfather, a poor WV farmer, managed to send 50% of all he earned to buy bibles for China for a great many years. A few years before his passing, he saw a great line of people (mostly oriental) passing his bed, thanking him for his service. They were so real he said he could pick anyone of them from a crowd to that day.
It was one of just two or three visions he had in his 90+ years.
I wayne beleive I have had 3 visions in my 50+ years. The one I wish to relate is a simple one. It is very simple and occured well over 25 years ago. To this day, I shake and tear up just at the rememberance.
I saw, I can still see a middle aged Chinese man in a unexpectantly large dark wet stone prison cell. He is physically in very bad shape. He is filthy and in ragged blue clothing. I’ll skip the details other than to say, I saw him take a piece of wadded scrap paper, on it was a scripture. A single verse which for this conveyance is unimportant, He comitted it to memory and ate the dirty paper strip. The Holy Spirit filled that chamber in a way that most have never known (myself included). I can barely finish this note I am so overcome at the memory.
You see, in his torture and isolation, “His Tribulation”, God showed His Glory. The Holy Spirit was mightily present, and this prisoner was closer to God than anyone I can imagine.
Christ’s passion required great pain, but in that horrible time His Glory was shown to us. Our suffering will likewise be a time for those who endure to our end, a time of God revealing His Glory to and through us. For the true follower of Christ, suffering can be a time of the churches great intimacy with God and each other.
I see no glory in pain and suffering or I would go hit my foot with a hammer! I do see the coming glory from the suffering God allows and brings us through.
One fellow wrote that God will give the wayward church time to repent this is true and is going on right now many on this forum are part of that church and dont even know it.
Any gospel that talks of Christ other then the one who lives in you is anti Christ or another Christ.
Paul said that Christ in you is the hope of glory many of you are waiting for Christ many of you think he will fill a temple in the country of Isreal when God left that old temple 2000years ago and will never return to it.
The only place where Christ dwells now is in blood bought believers and now we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and the body of Christ in the earth.
The work that God is doing is in His true temple the temple which we are. And just as the last time Christ dwelt in a physical body 2000 years ago men would not accept this witness and killed the man Jesus. And Jesus said if they hate me they will hate you and for the same reason because He the Christ the presence of God dwells in us his church and that will become evedent to many very soon and there is nothing any one can do to stop this mighty move of God. Any Christ but the one that dwells in temples of clay is a false Christ and so the war begins between that flesh and all that is carnal and the Spirit of the living God in the true church that is coming alive with the Christ of God.
I agree with Andrew that the purified , prepared, anointed Remnant will have the power, love, and Kingly anointing to cast out demons heal the sick, and pull down strongholds. I think we will be going into the apostate churches, and the captives will be set free and Jesus glorified through us the Sons of God. They will see us and will come to know the Jesus they have never known.
Andrew, you really got some great responses to your post.
I agree with the commentary on the Benny Hinn – Paula White escapade and the possibility of these two operations merging.
I also agree with the concept of Ananias – Sappira type of ministers dropping dead in their tracks as they lie about their money raising motives.
And how about the Jesus – Mary team going to work where He confronts individuals on their “roads to Damascus” and Mary announces judgments days before they happen.
The future of endtime ministries is definately going to be exciting.
awaiting His
return
I think you may have it. They will see the Son of God through his sons all those who have His spirit in them.
And they will have mercy on all those who are out of the way and God will turn the hearts if His children to thier Farther through the true church all those who Christ dwells in and He the Christ will truly begin to be the light this dark world has been looking for.
Once again, Andrew is absolutely correct in his basic premise. And offers us much-needed hope. We must not let the shenanigans of the world or the apostate church wreck our faith and hope, whether any come out of that system or not. To me, the very last thing we need to do now is embrace the it’s-all-over-we’ve-lost-run-and-hide mindset. That stuff belongs on a stupid old ungodly rerun of “Twilight Zone” or “The Outer Limits”, not in the true Kingdom of God.
So many posters at this site post as if they were king-judges, enthroned with thumbs-up or thumbs-down power to proclaim who is….. going to hell, when they know not who IS IN those they protesteth too much about!!! Them: self-enthroned persecuting the God indwelt! What a laugh! Good God Almighty!!!
KING SELF MUST DIE!
By Robert Winkler Burke
Of inthatdayteachings.com
Copyright 2006
King Self held court one imperious day
Self said, Hear ye, agree to all I say!
Came reply,
Self must die!
Said something hid out of the way.
How dare you counter my royal command?
Nothing stops great Selves from being grand!
Do not lie!
Self must die!
Said the spirit in stern reprimand.
Anything but die!
Said Self in reply,
How can
Mere man
Kill his lovely I?
Eagles help do it,
They take Self thru’ it:
Getting in
Ripping sin
‘til your heart’s renewed!
You win, said Self
To sin I’m deaf
How know
I go?
My plans I shelf.
The spirit said, Great greetings!
Prepare now for faith meetings
With saints gone before
And angels of lore
And Him who has best seating!
You may think this odd
But to live in you God
Must be!
You see?
To finish Creation’s job.
Now all must be done
Becoming in sum:
Good,
Would
God’s new kingdom come!
Dead logs from the Tree of Knowledge
If we are struggling within our own being, and have not rightly judged ourselves, then certainly, we do not have the capacity to peer into the soul of another struggler, who is being made to be an over-comer in this life through God’s call to grace in following Jesus and the cross. If our advice and understanding is not applied to our own heart, and the evidence is lacking in our lives, then our hypocrisy is seen to be overshadowing any light that may be in our words of judgment. Our actions give us away, and our wisdom is rooted in self, and its own perception of preservation. So, Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Matthew 7 verse 3 thru 5.) Then again when the log is extracted with submission to the Lord, perhaps then we will see clearly that the brother was already seeing with clarity to begin with, and never had the need for our intrusive intervention.
Apparently, even in our Christianity, our spiritual eye is not single, that is clearly affixed on Jesus Christ at all times, but can remain murky and obstructed with the cares of the world and our own preservation attached to prideful self-importance, with the desire for control of people and circumstances about us. In the spiritual realm of demonic hierarchy, a controlling spirit may dominate a person’s naturally bent persona, and tends to feed and lay to waste, spiritually, both a person encumbered with an inner spirit of self-righteousness, and also another person who is rooted in self rejection, leading to further low esteem. In either case of the spiritual controlling influence, if there is the lack of repentance, linked with confession and the working of the atoning Blood of Jesus Christ, then the possibility for further defilement and uncleanness can follow. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6 verse 12.)
Robert Glenn
If God has delivered you from Charasmania, you have leave it behind, & not look back. I am hearing people comment on the preachers/ teachers/prophets that have taught a false message,(word of faith, health wealth, & on & on) some for 30 years or more, robbing the sheep, as if they were some wayward believers, who were simply deceived. WRONG!! These are the false prophets that Peter mentions in 2 Peter2-22 (The whole chapter), who have brought in destructive heresies. Read the chapter, Peter calls them brute beasts made to be caught & destroyed, wells without water, etc.
God does not have to wait until any certain time to chasten & discipline His sons (&daughters). Heb.12.8 says if you are without chastening, you are a bastard, & not a son. God chastens those who are his, because He is conforming them to the image of Jesus (Rom.8.29) Why have these false preachers not been chastened ? Because they are ministers of Satan 2 Cor.11.15, reprobate bastards, not sons.
Paul called them out by name 1 Tim. 1.20. These false ministries are destructive, they destroy families, finances, testimonies, etc. This is no game, these deceivers destroy peoples’ lives. We are not called to judge, the world, that is. 1 Cor.5.13. But it is our calling & duty to judge the Church, no one is beyond accountability. 1 Cor.5.12. We are expected to call down the false prophets & teachers, not wait for God to bring them down. This is where the Western church has dropped the ball. Jesus commended the Ephesians in Rev.2.2 for calling down the false prophets. If we know truth, we cannot tolerate them. It is time to bring them out.
again I say we all need as born-again believers in Yahusha, we need to keep our lamps full of oil and be about our Father’s business.. If we are doing that, we do not have time to judge anyone….
Shalom,
debbi
Jesus, (during His Earthly ministry) said He did nothing, but the will of the Father. The only time He was harsh to anyone, is when He confronted, & rebuked the false religious leaders of the day (mostly the Pharisees). To faithworks: We are commanded to judge the Church, in other words, the Church holds the Church accountable. This is real New Testament living. The Apostles mostly instructed the belivers how to live. This theme is all through the Epistles, but herein lies the problem today. Many claim to be “spiritual”, but want nothing to do with being accountable. Yes, our lamps need to be full of oil, & our hearts need to be full of the Word of God.
Listen to Paul in 1 Cor.5.11-13,
“But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a BROTHER, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner- not to even eat with such a person.
For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? DO YOU NOT JUDGE THOSE WHO ARE INSIDE? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person”.
Paul callls the Church”inside”, & the world “outside”.
Paul is stating here, that God judges the world, but the Church (true church) does judge within.
Yes, Debbi. On Christ the solid rock we stand, all other ground is sinking sand, all other ground is sinking sand!
Brother Ken
After reading Robert Glenn’s powerful word from God, I will use greater care in what I say, and attempt all discernment in my motivations. I do have life long struggles with various sin issues that easily beset me. I live a hard life. I know something of Gods forgiveness, grace and His judgement. I also know of His power and strength which is new every morning. We of course all ahve unique roads which we must walk.
The man from Africa must be re-read. Those who have been called to be seperated are those who “The Lord” needs to judge and He will not do so while they have the church for support. Brothers of enablement if you will. Habitual sinners who have forgotten what the abscense of Gods presense feels, or perhaps a presense of punishment is needed to restore them, or even in some cases turn the body over to Satan so their souls will be saved.
These are not sheep who have been deceived into bad doctrine, they are sheep astray, not to be seperated, but to be restored through the outing of the wolves they do not yet see.
God goes out to find His lost sheep, not to put them out.
Judgement is a funny thing. So is discernment. Many here may need more of the second, so they will do a bit less of the first.
Good word David
Many are called but few are chosen
Yes, I know about the judging the body of believers which is the church in Acts… and the New Testament. It just seems the saints on here seem to judge everyone and mostly they do not know them personally…… We are to be about our Father’s business and that is reaching the lost in the body and outside the body.. His will be done not ours in all things. There are many who sit in the bodies of believers and believe they are saved.. That is what breaks my heart. We should be speaking truth to them His truth and only His words…
Shalom,
debbi
I believe we must come out of the church as God tells us to come out from among them, as The Holy Spirit wants to teach us himself, and He will give us truth if we ask. I feel it is imperitive to be led by the Holy Spirit constantly, and not go anywhere we are not led to. It is a lonely walk, and many do not understand, but it is so rewarding to know you are being faithful , and pleasing the Holy Spirit. Psalm 119:99 God is looking for Sons with power, but there is a price to pay. God Bless
I have tried to share on this forum what God is doing here and many think this just could not be. Tweny years ago God gave myself and some others a vision of a great move of God near Detroit Michigan and we seen it srpead to the whole world.
At the time i lived in Kalamazoo Mi now and for the past 12 years
i have lived in Adrian Mi about 50 miles S&W of Detroit MI
As of Nov 09 our father has asked me to be about his business
which was to go to 7 churches in the city of Adrian Mi and spend a little time in each and talk to the pastors and elders and tell them that they had 1 year to change what they were doing and one of the main things was telling his children that they were just forgiven sinners and that heaven was thier home someday and that till then they pretty much just hang on and live the same as the rest of the world. These are lies and i was to tell them that the blood of Christ was a complete thing and sin should not be a way of life for the children of God because Christ in them should be thier life now there are a couple other things but they dont want me to talk about them on this forum so i wont. Any way none of them would recieve what i had to say some kicked me out even when i told them that God would heal some who they were praying for as proof they said leave not wanting to even see if any prayer would save thier sick. So i made my rounds over a 6 mounth period of time and none would listen and none would come to my house and talk and see if these things were true. Then my Father said i knew they would not listen and this is not about a revivel it is about reformation i do not want to make the old new i want to completly change the system and take it from them and start new. My wife and i live a very simple life and debt free and abstain from all apearance of evil i dont even drink coffee because it my cause someone to stumble. Well when he told me that he was going to change the whole thing and start new but give them a chance to repent i said i never heard of changing the whole thing and taking it from them and starting new and He tells me any thing less will not work. So as of today 1 other person on the board of elders of one of the churches that kicked me out has come to my house to see if these things are true and his name is David also so now God is using two of us to do something that most will say cant be done. Andrews out line in just what is happening here and i am told it will spread to the whole world and the only two so far are two Davids. I know even here many will say yeah right. i was told to get up and tell you all these things and also to tell you to stand back and see all that our Father the All MIghty God of heaven and earth will do because it will surly come to past.
It is really important to separate the persons.
One who genuinely wants to do right but doesn’t do what he ought to do, and when he wants not to do something, he does it.
Then there is the other person who is bent on having their own way, their own will, and will not repent or submit themselves to the brothers. They pray hours to themselves, their own bellies, for the sake of their own glory. This is the religious hypocrite that Jesus continually railed against.
Two types of people. And we can’t treat these two situations the same. :)
love,
Sarah
Yes to Robert Glenn. Jesus does say to just rightly. We are to be working for His results in the people. Most people I have found have their own motives and agenda’s as their mainstay. We are supposed to be working for Him, not for ourselves. If my prayer life fails I will also give in more and more to my own agenda’s too. :)
Jesus says that “without me you can do nothing”.
love,
Sarah
something we all might want to dwell on if you think you can do this on your own you would be very mistaken. The bible says that Christ in you is the hope of glory any thing short of this will never do. Jesus said it is my father in me that does the works and so it is for those in this hour. If you dont know this and have it as a truth in your life where the Christ of God is your very life then all your attempts to do in his name will fail. If you are looking for Jesus to appear in some other way then to be reveled in his called out ones then what you are doing will fail. If you have not got your mind renewed to the way he is doing things then what you are doing will fail. Many have come out of the church system but still cling to many of the false doctrines of that system and that is why that system is failing and so will all who refuse to change. Any who want to hate thier brothers and sisters will fail.
We can warn and try to help them but we are not to condem them they are not yours to judge they are Gods no matter how wayward they may seem. Many are like the sons of thunder who wanted to call down fire on the people and Jesus said you do not know what spirit you are of. You can point out where you think there might be trouble but only God himself can bring about the correction. We have to keep in mind just whos church it really is and be careful not to judge because much of what you are judgeing to be of the devil is really God allowing something to see what is in your heart.
When the hammer of God’s judgment falls, there will be no mistake, for it will be grievious, and what we know today as “the church” will not survive. There are too many tares, generational Satanist who have attached themselves to the wheat for the purpose of sucking the life out of them, and not until the tares are removed will the wheat have the proper nourishment to survive.
The harvest is destroyed! There will be no reform of it, only destruction and judgment. We have allowed “strangers” to enter the sanctuary, and that has always brought God’s judgment. Some here have alluded to the fact that many of the so called “Christian leaders” are not Christian at all but “tares” not of God at all, therefore not under the chastening hand of our God to restore them. There will be no restoration of Generational Satanist who have infiltrated the Church, nothing but judgment and a type of harvest of the tares to remove them from God’s people.
Only then can the bride be without spot, wrinkle or blemish, and only then can Christ return for His bride. Get ready for the hammer is going to fall very soon, and most will be unprepared for it.Grievious as it may be, afterward will come the second half of Joel’s prophecy and we shall receive the latter rain of the Holy Spirit, and so glorious will it be that Israel shall recognize Jesus Christ as their Messiah and Jerusalem shall become a “light unto the Gentile Nations”, This is the true “budding of the fig tree” When that happens, Christians from all over the world will flock to Israel and be a part of the greatest move of God yet…the beginning of the throne of David, the very throne that Jesus Christ will return to take possession of and the throne in which the Anti-Christ will try to usurp. Prophecy doesn’t always work out the way we suppose. It didn’t in Jesus day and it still doesn’t in our day. God does not recognize our pre-conceptions of fulfilled prophecy.
John 4:3
And every spirit that does not confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God and this is that spirit of anti christ whereof ye have heard that it should come and even now
already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God little children and have overcome them because
greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.
Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory
of this mystery amoung the gentiles which is CHRIST in you,
the hope of glory.
The true gospel is Christ in you the hope of glory this is a mystery to most but the mystery is being uncovered and for those who have eyes to see they will see.
The bible says when you see Him you will be like him this is the way we are to go i am not looking for Jesus in Isreal or and other place except coming out of the clouds which clouds we are if you have been born again. Most are reading scripture with a carnal mind and can not see the spritural truth behind what God is trying to say. Jerusalem from above is not a physcial city it is a spritural city and is in the spirit. All those looking to the middle east in these times will miss what God is doing just as the jews did the first time he came they did not understand that his coming is in a people. You are looking for somebody to kill all your enemys just like they were and you can not see the power of our mighty God just as they could not see it then. The cross we are to bear is the same as his because He the Christ of God is in us and just as He Jesus was so are we in this earth. Only those who are truly born again and have eyes to see will not try to kill everyone because they will know that they only do what the Father says to do just as the captain of our salavation did and is doing now in us.
In regard to the last post, from Wingedlion:
Amen to your insight. Finally something that rings true, and not out of carnal visions. Thank you.
Just as a side note, I just realized that the Jews will repent when they “LOOK on Him whom they have pierced”. So, not until they see Him when He comes in other words..
Bless you Dave Larsen, for coming in the nature of the LORD… and proclaiming Jesus’s “I-come-quickly” return in the clouds of saint’s faces! Hallelujah! To wit:
The I-AM-Not-in-Ain’ts
By Robert Winkler Burke
Of inthatdayteachings.com
Copyright 2/6/09
Colossians 1:26-27; Matthew 23:38-39
Two hundrerd years ago,
God’s cutting edge church found wanting,
Truth’s tired old formulas,
Were out, not popular, weirdly haunting.
The truth that Jesus returns,
Indwelt in His saints,
Was on the out, disbelieved by,
The I-AM-not-in-ain’ts.
So they invented rapture,
In which Jesus returns,
They added spirits of fear,
In which we all burn.
For two hundred years,
We burn to buy the next book,
How Jesus returns literally,
In a moment, to see if the next book took.
Took us unawares,
Of the mystery,
That Jesus returns,
Inside you and me.
Hurray for two hundred years of rapture,
Fifty of prosperity!
Long may truth be a tired old formula,
In this age insanity!
Who would brave disbelieving mad doctrines,
Broadcast to one hundred nations?
Only fools for truth, only the lonely brave,
Only the orthodox believing creation.
Such marked souls,
Can’t buy, write or sell rapture books,
Only having to show,
Inside, Jesus, if anyone spiritually looks.
But the I-am-not-in-ain’ts,
Are in charge of broadcasting religious things,
Loving themselves, their sheep and sheep shearing,
Hating only witnesses indwelt of their king.
THE BACK! The back must be given,
To discourage the foolhardy, indwelt remnant!
The I-AM-not-in-ain’ts are wise,
Making souls which come quick the great I AM can’t.
For Jesus can’t come in unclean vessels,
Who won’t bless His return in others,
The I-AM-not-in-ain’ts turn back on such,
Preferring lies of rapture book sellers.
A couple of months back God spoke to me and said that “A storm is coming” and he had me write it seven times. He said that “it would be a spiritual storm with sever financial hardship, a recession that would be much worse than the last one. That we are to make what preparations we could and that we enter into a time of prayer for ourselves and for others. But the most important thing was that we will have to stir up is our faith as it will only be faith in God that will see us through. In Christ Allan Millington — Australia
Dear Andrew,
All praise & glory to God for what He is doing in & through you & your family. As you seek to know His plan unfold in your lives, just rest in Him, for He makes no mistakes. Isa 26 : 3.
America needs much prayer; for as a nation, she has forsaken the One & only true God. May God have mercy on her.
Love & prayers.
In the joyful service of the Master,
David- Delhi, India.
Between David Larsen and Robert Winkler Burke, we are getting a good dose of Christian Universalism theology tonight. I thought you agreed not to talk about that, David?
Gary Simpson
Gary
You are the only one who keeps talking about universalism no where have i made a comment about it.
Is this something you believe and keep trying to get others to see it some how?
Gary are you even saved? Is your hope that you can just treat others like trash because you think all will be saved so say what you want?
Why dont you just leave me and others alone you know the old saying if you cant say something good just dont say any thing.
Hey Gary
Here is some scripture to support your closet universalism this may help you come out of the closet and stop making it seem like it is me who have these views and really not your self.
1 Timothy 2;4-5-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved,and to come unto the knoweldge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men. The man Christ Jesus.
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all.to be testified in due time.
If we believe these words to be inspired by God then we would have to see that God himself has a bit of universalism in him to. He seems to have a desire that all be saved i think someone should tell him that who does he think he is God or something.
He should know that no such thing is possible so says the rules on the forum. I think we should tell him that scriptures like this are not allowed here someone could get the wrong idea.
We make a great mistake when we proclaim that true believers can not fall away from the faith and forfeit their salvation, much as Esau forfeited his birthright for a “bowl of pottage”.
You can’t “lose” your salvation and God will never take it away, but I believe that we can willfully turn away from Christ and
forfeit our salvation, “disqualifying” ourselves through our willful disobedience. I believe thousands of true
Christians are falling away today, just as Paul predicted and are forfeiting their birthright (their heavenly
hope) for an earthly bowl of pottage (an earthly kingdom established by Joel’s Army). As David Wilkerson
writes, they are falling away from Christ to Antichrist:
Right now we see a growing antichrist sentiment and conduct. But soon this will turn into a flowing stream, and eventually, a vast ocean. And when the Antichrist finally appears,
even many former Christians will welcome him – because their hearts will be of a kindred spirit! Paul warned of this. He said that in the last days false prophets would infiltrate the
Church, preaching another gospel and another Jesus. Many such false prophets have already appeared, preaching the gospel of the Antichrist…The antichrist spirit is invading the hearts
of many apostate Christians even now.
They are being absolutely possessed of evil. “But how?”, you ask. Why would certain apostate Christians ever turn to the Antichrist? It is because they are like-minded with him. John writes:
“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the
world, the love of the father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and
the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world…” “..Little
children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists, whereby we know that it is the last time.”
John is warning us that those who still love the things of this world have opened
themselves to the spirit of Antichrist. He’s saying “You know these are the last days because
so many are full of the covetous antichrist spirit!”
The spirit of Anti-Christ has come into the Church through the Latter Rain revival of 1948 and it is producing a “New Age” form of Christianity that is leading thousands away from Christ to Anti-Christ and into the Great Harlot Church of Revelation Chapter 17. This “church” is pictured as being “drunken with the
blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus”. Not only do the Latter Rain proponents share the idea of a rapture
of the wicked with the New Age, they also share alike in the idea that the kingdom to come is going to be
established through much bloodshed and suffering.
many of the Latter Rain apostles and prophets are proclaiming a coming “civil
war” in the Church. A time of purging and bloodshed in which all of the “grays”, those who stubbornly hold
to ‘scripture only’ as the basis for belief and practice, will be destroyed. A cleansing – a time of bloodshed –
exactly the same thing the New Age is declaring:
The New Age teaches that the removal and physical destruction of all Christians will
be a holy act. This is carefully and elaborately explained in a key New Age bible called The
Keys of Enoch. First published in 1978 by a group calling itself the Academy of Future
Science, this incredibly revealing text – 618 pages in length – describes the wrath that will
befall those who, in the last days, refuse to embrace the New Age religion and its gods. It
speaks of a “great cleansing” to take place as the Earth is advanced to the New Age, an era in
which our planet will enjoy “a higher orbital frequency”. The death and passing form the
scene of the unbelievers in the New Age will open the earth up for a higher “spiritual
frequency”. This higher frequency will, in turn, allow a “New Communion” to occur as the
higher angelic beings (Christians call them “demons”) join and merge with the holier race of
humans, [Genesis 6:1-5 ; Luke 17:26!] who have become gods.
“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition…” (2 Th 2:3 NKJV)
Apostasy is a falling away from the faith.
You can’t “fall away” from something you didn’t really have to begin with. These Latter Rain people are Christians – born-again,
Spirit-filled Christians who have unfortunately been deceived.
Those who have been led away from Christ to Anti-Christ by seducing spirits proclaiming doctrines of devils. The pervasive influence of Calvinism in today’s Church has many Christians refusing to believe that a true born-again believer can be deceived and led away from Christ. I respectfully disagree.
God warned the prophet Ezekiel:
“Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you did not give him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.
Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; also you will have delivered your soul.”
(Ezek 3:20,21 NKJV)
God clearly says here that if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity
“He shall die in his sin and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered”.
In the New Testament we are warned:
“And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight; IF indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.” (Col 1:23 NKJV)
That little word “IF” here speaks volumes.
The Apostle Paul wrote of the importance of finishing the race that we all have been called to run, and of the danger of being “disqualified”:
“Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. Everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.” (1 Cor 9:24-27 NKJV)
We make a great mistake when we proclaim that true believers can not fall away from the faith and forfeit their salvation, as Esau forfeited his birthright for a “bowl of pottage”.
An apostasy or “falling away” is essentially a rebellion of God’s people against His Word.
Thousands of Christians are coming into strong delusion because they did not receive the love of the truth and remain
FAITHFUL to HIS WORD AS AVAILABLE TO US IN THE BIBLE.
While they may have received the truth, they did not have a love for it and have therefore fallen away from it.
Tragically they are trading their blessed hope for an earthly delusion.
AMEN and AMEN, Wayne
“Those who have been led away from Christ to Anti-Christ by seducing spirits proclaiming doctrines of devils. The pervasive influence of Calvinism in today’s Church has many Christians refusing to believe that a true born-again believer can be deceived and led away from Christ. I respectfully disagree”
Shalom,
debbi
Please forgive me but I was unaware of any movement called the “latter rain” movement that uses this wonderful prophecy and twists it to mean something that it doesn’t. Can anyone give me some resource website or any other means of finding out more about how these people think and believe?
For many years the Lord showed me that the so called “fig tree” prophecy did not apply to Israel becoming a Nation for the scriptures tell of the great revival that will bring Israel into it’s full purpose to accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah. The valley of dry bones prophecy tells of this; and part of the fig tree prophecy has to do with Israel being revived to it’s full potential and becoming a “light unto the Gentile Nations”. This has never occurred and so the “last generation” portion of this prophecy that you hear nearly all preachers harp about has no relevance at all to this prophecy since it hasn’t happened yet.
Preachers talk about this being the “last generation” before Christ returns, but they also keep changing the amout of years that are in a generation to fit their pre-conceived ideas of how prophecy should unfold. As I said before, the disciples got it wrong in Jesus ministry, chances are, we are going to get it wrong in our generation too. God does not bow to our own pre-conceived ideas of Biblical prophecy’ every jot and title must be fulfilled according to scripture not according to historical unfoldment. Israel being re-gathered into a Nation is only one part of the prophecy, and it is the least important of them as well, but that can and has been manipulated, for what reason, we shall see as things unfold, but for now, let us put aside all our pre-conceived ideas and go back to the scriptures and follow them instead of our own traditions.
Hey David Larsen,
Send me a message on my blog about your beliefs and what the Lord has told you so we chat freely about the deep things of God. :-)
Now here comes the crunch,
We all know that there is a great shaking coming but at the same time we are also still holding onto the original doctrines that got us into this mess in the first place.
How many would actually recognize the true gospels when they do come and how many would label the true as false.
Keep in mind that if the true had been adopted the shaking would not be coming would it.!
Tony,
NO!
The original APOSTOLIC doctrines did NOT get us into any mess.
They have ALWAYS pointed the way for those humbly submitted to HIM and HIS WILL as presented to us in HIS WORD and confirmed by the HOLY SPIRIT.
This mess has come about because of the blind acceptance of doctrines of demons and the extremely foolish acceptance of teaching that we must not question or in any way challenge the “anointed” ones who have effectively proven to be demonically inspired men coveting spiritual power which GOD Himself has forbidden in HIS WORD.
“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling
away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition…” (2 Th 2:3 NKJV)
In 1948 a movement was born that has become the foundation of the great apostasy that the Apostle
Paul warned us would come prior to the return of our Lord. Known as the New Order of the Latter Rain or
just the Latter Rain Movement its influence has steadily grown within the Pentecostal and Charismatic
Churches since 1948. Today, through the influence of various “revivals” its leaven is spreading even further
into the Evangelical world.
An apostasy or “falling away” is essentially a rebellion of God’s people against His Word. It would
be within the Latter Rain “revival” which broke out in North Battleford, Saskatchewan, in 1948 that the last
great rebellion against the word of God would be birthed. It is my belief that this movement has ushered in
the very apostasy that the Apostle Paul warned would come.
Rebelling against the New Testament picture of the Church in the last days as a despised remnant of
the faithful holding on until the rapture, they began to develop a heretical doctrine of a triumphant Church –
conquering the world and bringing in the kingdom of Christ. The first time the Church adopted such a
theology it resulted in the development of Roman Catholicism and ushered in the Dark Ages. This time the
result will be much the same but of a much shorter duration. It will produce the one-world ecumenical
church, “The Great Harlot” that will triumph for a short time under Anti-Christ – “Drunken with the blood of
the saints and martyrs of Jesus.”
It came to be taught that the “Latter Rain” revival of 1948 was to be the first in a series of
“restorational moves of God” that would restore to the Church all of the truths that Satan had “robbed” her
of. The five-fold ministries of apostles and prophets would also be restored to the church. These restored
“apostles” and “prophets” would lead the Church into “present truth” and the “last great moves of God.”
Eventually when the Church was mature enough the “rapture” would occur. But the rapture of the Latter
Rain would be a much different rapture than the Church had ever taught before. It would be a “spiritual”
coming of Christ into His Church, His “corporate body.” A “corporate anointing.” The saints would be
“glorified”, even “deified” – right here on this earth. This overcoming army of saints believes it will go
forth conquering and triumphing over all of it’s enemies in the Great Tribulation. When they are done Christ
will be “released from the heavens”, to come and take control of the kingdom they have established.
This doctrine is known as the “Manifest Sons of God” or “Sonship” and has spread throughout the
Evangelical Church through the Charismatic and Kingdom/Dominion Movements. The Latter Rain
“revivals” that are occurring in Toronto, Pensecola, and various other places are popularizing and spreading
this heresy at an alarming rate. It is known popularly today as “Joel’s Army”. Thousands of Christians are
coming into a strong delusion because they did not receive the love of the truth. While they may have
received the truth, they did not have a love for it and have therefore fallen away from it. They are trading
their blessed hope for an earthly delusion.
Tony,
What you said is more than likely to happen, the same way it happened when Jesus came performing miracles and preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God. What did the religious Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, Lawyers, and the Jews do? They called Him demon possessed, a blasphemer, a deceiver, and ultimately crucified Him. All because they did not believe His words or His works! I suspect some of the same when the Lord sends out His chosen vessels into this world for the final harvest.
Tyrone and Tony
What you have stated above is the very thing that i have been trying to tell most who will listen. Most who have come out of the Church system never learn why it didnt work. Andrew Strom has hit on a couple of the problems like asking Jesus into your heart which is not in the bible. One of the big ones is the one about you just have to keep on sinning because you are just a forgiven sinner. More lies and ones that are spoken from most churches in America each week. There are many more but most can not be talked about here for the same reason if you tell most pastors you dont have to sin any more they would call you a nut case and say you were spreading lies and kick you out. Believe me i know. Most mean well they just believe what they think is truth with out spending much time to find out. Many are just children even though they have been to bible school and have a degree that does not cut it with God. Many are sincere but sincerely wrong. This move that God is doing will not be made on the old doctrines that man has said are from God when all they were was carnal mens thoughts that he got when reading the bible.
Many even on this forum believe the very lies that are causing the church system to fail in this country. Which is why God has hidden many away for years teaching them what to do so he can take away the old and replace it with the new. And that is why all the up heavel in this country and the world it is about to be turned upside down.
Hey Tyrone
I sent you a email through your site.
Thanks David!
It’s very encouraging to see the Lord revealing His mysteries and His truth to His elect in these last days.
“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling
away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition…” (2 Th 2:3 NKJV)
The Word of God provides the narrow way by which the faithful will be spared the coming judgement.
The narrow way is attained by humble submission to the clear and simple teachings of HIS revelation to us.
Thank GOD for keeping HIS WORD simple enough for the humble to understand and accept.
The vain imaginations of the rebellious, the covetous and the demonic provides the wide gate for the deluded to engage in false religion and fasle religious practices.
Clearly the mystical the demonic the unbiblical,antibiblical and extrabiblical must be rejected wholeheartedly by those who will be saved.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that
He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
2/* John 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you….Jesus abides in you through His word.
The word that John is referring to here is not just the written word but the spirit of the word written upon the hearts of men. This word becomes a part of who you are. This is not so much intellectual knowledge but rather a change in your spirit. We must learn to remain within Jesus and allow His words to remain in us. This my friend does take an effort on our part, for we too easily fall in step with the world and its way. The word of God must be brought back into focus by looking once again at Jesus and stepping by faith into Him. If you will not put the word into you; by hearing, by reading, by meditating… you not only reject the word but the Word also. Drink in His word and you take Jesus within you. Abide in Him and He in you.
3/* Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
There is NO mystery here.
The purpose of the Holy Spirit, to create a bride for the Father’s Son, is plain and simple The Holy Spirit is the link that binds us to our Lord and through Him to our Father. How can you know if you are abiding in the Son? Simple… look at the way that you are walking in this life toward others. By their fruits you shall know them… love, faith, patience, temperance, etc… It is certainly hard enough to live as a christian by following a code… but that is not what the Father is looking for. He is looking for a people that will be and have the same heart as His Son. For that, your heart must be changed. The only way that can happen is if you are obedient to the moving of the Holy Spirit.
Sure the flesh will strike at you, but if you are putting in the word of God… then pray…Above all else remain humble with an attitude of submission to HIS revealed will.
Remember that the Holy Spirit is not only a gift but a necessity if we are to follow Him. For without Him we can do nothing. That is why Jesus said the following…
Matthew 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.*
When He spoke these words Jesus was referring to obtaining food, clothes, shelter and such other things that we need to live. Yet to truly live we need that which Jesus says to seek first… the kingdom and His righteousness. Everything else is of secondary importance. Do not try to get your house in order first but first get yourself established firmly in the kingdom and His righteousness. God will add those other needs when needed.
Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. :35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
I have heard so many people say that God is not a respecter of persons… and thank God that is true. If that were not the case, only the important persons would have a chance to obtain the kingdom. Yet how often do we look on a person’s title within the church and consider him/her to be more holy or blessed or mature than the rest? Those titles do not hold any weight with God.
God looks upon the heart and the actions that proceed from it.
What the problem really is this is not about going to heaven someday it is about knowing God now.
It is about having the exact same kind of knowing that Jesus had with the Father because He Christ lives in us.
If you have been told lies all your life about someone when you meant them you would not know them.
Most all who are in church just know things about God they do not know Him.
The reason is they are being taught lies about someone from people who do not know that someone.
The jews at Jesus time had the scriptures to but for all thier learning they did not know God because when he came in the flesh they killed him.
So many think they know about percution when in truth they know nothing about it.
Percaution comes from the same way as it came for Jesus they who say they are his will not know you either because all they know is lies about God and so therfore they will not know you either. I am come to this forum to proclaim the God of all creation as the true and living God He is my Father because i am one of His sons through His one son Jesus Christ.
Many on here have thier own ides about my Father who they say is thier God. We are told to worship in Spirit and in truth and most of what you think is truth you have been taught by men and is not truth at all. If you hate me because i say things that over turn your ideas about God then you need to repent and come to know the true and living God or you just need to grow up in him and see him for who he really is. The bottom line is this is so much more then most would even dare believe could be true.
God is real He is now and He is living in a people and he does not need your premission to do what he is about to do.
I have come to warn and tell every one to get ready and change what you think you know about the true and living God. It is time to grow up people and quite playing in the sand box of carnal mens ideas about the true and living God. I was asked to come here through email from Andrew and will not spend alot more time here fussing with a people who only want to fight with each other about what they think the scriptures say. I love and care a great deal for Andrew Strom and know that he is a brother in Christ but why he was not allowed entrance into the country is not a mystery to me. And if he sits down and thinks about it neither will it be for him. Our Father has given him something to do but if what he has to say is the same things that are being taught from the pulpits in America what would be the point. Brother you have come a short way with the things our Father has showed you come a little father and finish the course that is set before you. LIke i said much of what is being taught here on this forum and in the pulpits are lies about who my Father is and through them you will never grow up in him.
I am not saying you are not saved in fact most of you are.but you are like children and all you want to do is have it your way.
Your way is the wrong way and has not been working for nearly 2000 years. Almighty God says enough grow up or stand aside and yes it will come to pass. Hating and condeming those you dont agree with is childish there is much that is wrong and we can proclaim that but killing those whom Jesus shed his blood for is not the answer to the problem. . The coming of Christ in a people is the answer but most would rather fight to get things thier way instead of giving up the carnal life that the life of Christ could shine through in mighty power. It is when you lay down your life and what you thought that the true life which is Christ can come through and then He and He alone will judge a right judgment. Time is ticking away people and none of you have time to waste. And if any think you will escape through rapture or some other way think again. You are here for the duration so get use to it. THe world falling around you will pale in comparision to the coming of God in power in His church that will be coming to life in this hour. People get ready. One other thing i am not talking about people in glorfied bodies.
I am talking about regular people you and me in our bodies and just like Jesus who went before us to show us the way we will have Christ in these eathern vessels doing only the things that God can do just as he did through the captain of our salavation.
The time is upon us and nothing can stop what our Father is about to do.
Jesus said,
Jesus said,
Jesus said,
Jesus said,
Jesus said,
Jesus said,
Jesus said,
The writer of the book of Hebrews said,
Hebrews 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of the
oracles of God. and are become such as have need of milk
and not of strong meat.
13
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of rightouness for he is a babe.
14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age even
those who by reason of use have their senses exercised
to discern both good and evil
In the above text it is clear that God wants his children to grow up
so there is no excuse to come up with a bunch of scripture about Gods love for little children to negate what i have been saying about most being children which some have done in the past on this forum. Just more scripture that you take out of context to try and prove carnal thoughts about God and never lead to knowing Him. The true gospel is about Christ in you the hope of glory.
Christ is the answer to all that is going on at this point in time in the earth. Jesus will not fly down like super man to save every one these are carnal thoughts and what scripture says.
It is Christ appearing in a people that is the true wittness and the great mircle that God is doing all eles is false Christ or something other then the true Christ of God in a people.
If Jesus of Nazareth – “Emmanuel, God with us” – was in you David (“David Larsen”) and speaking through you, then you would be speaking His words, His truth as recorded in scripture…
This is not occuring…
The “Christ in you”, which you refer to, living and speaking through you is not in agreement with the truth of the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth – revealed in scripture nor the inner witness of the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth – who lives in my heart by the power of His Holy Spirit,
How can this be David?
What do you make of this?
This being true, who is it then who is living within you and speaking through you?
Andrew Horton
Are you trying to judge my words by who you say is in your heart.
Well either you are not saved or like i have been trying to say
you look at scripture through a carnal natural mind. So i would say either believe on Jesus Christ or grow up. If you dont know me you do not know Him. And who are you to say what i am? Just saying something is not truth do you know all truth? And is all you know is scripture? And if you do not know God you are nothing more then a modern day pharisee. And remenber Andrew Horton you are the one who started with the staments about who is Gods and who is not.
The jews of old killed Jesus with the very same staments that you have made to me. So why dont you grow up and stop making foolish staments Andrew all they show me is not only do you not know me you do not know The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Chriast either
Isa 45:3 “And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.”
Rev 2:17 “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna…”
Only God can remove the veil – “to this day a veil covers their faces whenever Moses is read”. We must allow the Lord to remove the veil – a bride standing under the hoopa with her Groom had a veil covering her face. But to consummate the marriage though she had to allow her groom to remove her veil so that they could “know” one another. A bride furthermore is virginal, we must become as virgins again after being used like a harlot in the churches – in other words know nothing and become blank slates like we were when we first believed – we knew nothing at that moment but Christ and Him crucified until the pulpits got a hold of us and filled us with the erroneous and carnal traditions of men. We must become like virgins again and allow only the Bridegroom to write on our hearts. This is what it means to “come out” of the harlot church, it’s not just a physical removal, but we need to have our minds renewed and purified and washed in the water of the pure word, not the filthy mixture of tradition that we all partook of. This is what it means to escape Sodom and not just settle in Zoar (just a smaller version of the same thing), but keep going on to the mountains, the high places of God to meet with Him there.
This what I’m finding, many things I used to take for granted I have surrendered to the Lord for His sifting and there are now blank spaces and I’m waiting for the Lord to fill in those blank spaces with His truth, it’s an awkward phase, I hardly even know how to evangelize any more, not sure exactly what to say that is not polluted with mixture. Oh, write on me Jesus! Like Paul who was resolved to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified. Only He can remove the veil of my carnal mind, the carnal beliefs I don’t even realize I have so that I can have revealed to me the true meaning of what the scriptures are testifying to..
One thing I do know for sure though is that the next thousand years will not be like the last two thousand when the Lord bore with patience all the error and mixture in His intended (spiritual harlotry). His bride must become a pure undefiled virgin if He is to marry her. We must not be looking back like Lot’s wife but going forward to meet our bridegroom..
Mat 25:6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
Isa 43:18 “Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past.
Isa 43:19 See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the desert and streams in the wasteland.
When the Apostle Paul was in Athens he came up against certain philosophers:
Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, “What does this babbler want to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods,” because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak? “For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean.” For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing. Acts 17:18-21
It was the desire of pagan (and later, Christian) philosophers and mystics to seek out a “new thing”. The revelation given once-for-all in Jesus Christ was somehow not enough for these seekers and they ever looked for “more, more”. However, scripture tells us very plainly that there is no hidden new thing to come to light:
That which has been is what will be, that which is done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which it may be said, “See, this is new”? It has already been in ancient times before us. Eccl 1:9-10
God has provided the revelation of the Truth to mankind in and through His Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus IS the Truth, God incarnate. Searching for some additional key to understanding the universe is fruitless. In any case, God does not deal in secret wisdom but all that He does is open and available to all. Seek and ye shall find.
NEW THING SCRIPTURES MISQUOTED
Here is the new thing as defined by Clayt Sonmore (Thy Kingdom Come Ministries) in his book “Beyond Pentecost”:
“This new thing God is bringing forth is the MERGING OF GOD AND MAN, not seen in fulness since the separation of man from God in the Garden of Eden, with the possible exception of Enoch and Elijah.”
For many years, scriptures referring to a “new thing” have undergirded the belief in an endtimes global revival, a latter-rain outpouring, that will bring the corporate Church to fulness, glory and ruler ship.
However, when we examine these scriptures it becomes apparent that the “new-thing” spoken of in scripture is actually the astounding birth of Jesus Christ, the Son of God become human:
“How long will you gad about, O you backsliding daughter? For the LORD has created a new thing in the earth– a woman shall encompass a man”.Jer 31:22
The totally unprecedented and new event that only God could create, was the birth by a Virgin of the Son of God. A human woman encompassed in her womb the divinity. Who could have invented such a thing? This was so new that those who were told it – the Old Testament people of God – did not understand it!
Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Is 42:9
“Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert.” Is 43:18-19
The NEW THING is JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF!
Thank you Wayne for describing the “latter Rain movement” to me, I guess why I have never heard of it is because I’m not Charasmatic, however, with any form of deception there is always some degree of truth to it. What makes deception so dangerous is the amount of truth that is in it, and that is what gives it a credible outward appearance.
You cannot know New Testament prophecy without first understanding Old Testament prophecy, and the trend is, to try to interpret scripture with a mindset that is primarily “Christian” in nature rather than “Jewish” in nature. When we try to divide the Church and Israel we make a mistake in not accepting things the way God accepts them. We as Christians have been grafted into the vine of Israel and thus are privy to all the promises and prophecies that are given to Israel. Make no mistake, there is no difference between Jew and Gentile when looking at prophecies that concern Israel.
I am a spiritual warrior that goes through heavy persecution. I am a primary target of Satanists worldwide, a public enemy number one, so to speak, yet nearly no one here has any clue as to what is going on in the spirit realm or what mighty victories the Lord is bringing to us and to the table. Before I was a spiritual warrior I was an intercessor, I still am, but being an intecessor taught me to listen to the Lord. I was able to have God answer all my prayers because I only prayed what He wanted me to pray for. That caught the attention of Powerful people in what is called the Illuminati or the NWO, it goes by many different names, but the Biblical term is Mystery Babylon the Great. They then began to buy up all the real estate around my house and planted their own people to monitor and to persecute me continually. They could not have some Christian who always got their prayers answered interferring with their plans for world domination evidently.
How wonderful to have such a testimony that Satan calls his elite to pull out all the stops to try to hinder you. I wonder if those who are fighting amonst yourselves if the enemy considers you a threat to the New World Order? I wonder if they spend a dime on trying to hinder you? I’m not trying to brag or gather support or sympathy, only to challenge you to greatness. The Lord has called us to be overcomers, and we are suppose to be prepared for World rulership in the Millenium Kingdom. Sometimes we get so caught up in “going to heaven” that we forget that there is a purpose in the fire we go through. We are on the verge of Judgment, and many are going to die. It is going to be grevious, and most are going to loose many family members through a world famine, pestilence and a world war, surely we can put aside our petty bickering long enough to allow the fire of God to purify us and make us meet for the Kingdom. Just my two cents worth.
Watchful
That is a good word you have spoken above brother and i pray all would listen. God is so much more then most have been taught by the pulpits in America. Many are saved they just will not let go of old teaching. I believe brother that our Father will bless you with His presence and fill you with the Spirit of His son that you will grow in wisdon and the knowelege of God as your true and only Father. Your brother in Christ David.
I agree about the merging of God and man. But this is so deep, or maybe it’s just that veil in the way! I don’t grasp all of it yet and can only try to share my bits and pieces of it as best I can. We should look at what that scripture in Isaiah is actually referring to, the two preceding verses tell us what they and WE are to forget:
Abraham had received the covenant promise of God, before the Law, remembering that the Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world, Jesus was not really so new, I think there is also more to what this new thing is talking about. What does that even mean? Do you know Wayne? We can’t understand that with our carnal mind, it can only be received by revelation – the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world, … I consider the possibility that when Jesus came, He was revealing that Lamb, His crucifixion was a living parable, a revelation of the Lamb that was already slain. Help us Lord!
AFTER becoming God’s people through covenant, the children of Israel became the slaves of a worldly system, working for this system which though it made them slaves still provided for their basic needs – all for a very long time, 400 years! Works-based salvation in other words – sound familiar? That’s largely what we’ve had going on for the last two thousand years isn’t it, taught by our mother’s sons who made us work in their vineyards while we neglected our own – who looked like brothers, but really had a different Father than the elect. (Song of Solomon)
After hearing the cries of His children, God sent them a Deliverer and physically removed them from this wordly place of false religion and led them out into the desert wilderness where they had to be cleansed and purified of what they came out of – becoming like virgins again in other words, where they no longer had to “work” for their salvation but the Lord Himself was their Husband and provider. It was not easy, learning to depend on His grace alone with absolutely no way to pay Him back or earn their keep in any way shape or form – out in the desert they were helpless as babes, there was absolutely nothing to work with to use for survival. They had to learn to trust in this God completely who they couldn’t even see with their hands or touch with the hands! Trust in His completely unmerited love and favour! Whhaaaat? Why should He care about us? Whoever heard of such a thing, a God who doesn’t want anything from us but to love Him in return? No work, no ‘unreasonable demands’, absolutely nothing to do but follow where He leads? What’s the catch? Now, isn’t that really the point of the new thing.. yes Jesus, but also He was leading His people to the Sabbath Rest (Promised Land) and the old thing the Israelites were told to forget, yes forget, He meant what He said, He wasn’t kidding – completely leave it behind – was the worldy way of working as slaves (even though chosen as God’s people) in Egypt a worldly place of false religion which corresponds with that harlot church we are in process of leaving behind.
See the verses that precede the one we are talking about, it tells us what they were to forget:
Isa 43:16 This is what the Lord says– he who made a way through the sea, a path through the mighty waters,
Isa 43:17 who drew out the chariots and horses, the army and reinforcements together, and they lay there, never to rise again, extinguished, snuffed out like a wick:
notice the colon CONNECTS it to the next part,
Isa 43:18 “Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past.
Isa 43:19 See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the desert and streams in the wasteland.
Multidimensional lessons in there, I just can’t even grasp it all or express it all at once – just doing my awkward best here. It was in the desert that their true Saviour was REVEALED for who He really is, in the giving of the Law – yes, they had revelation of the Messiah, their Deliverer through the Law – that’s what the Law was for (until they later lost that revelation). It was to reveal the Messiah UNTIL HE CAME. So like them, here in our wilderness, having come out of Egypt, we should seek and expect to have our Deliverer REVEALED TO US AS HE REALLY IS, until He comes to be encompassed by the woman (reminds me of consummation), His bride, the church, not as we learned while a slave in Egypt. He is not our slave-driver, He is the opposite of that, He wants to lead us to His sabbath rest (Promised Land). All He wants is to possess us, and that we should possess Him, not that we should work, but that He will work and we just follow Him and go along for the ride as His companion and helpmate!
Bless you David, I find I’m not as afraid any more – perfect love casts out fear and that includes fear of deception. My blank spaces simply cannot receive the ink of man, it just sloughs off I noticed, it can only receive from the Lord Himself now. You could tell me something and I am willing to consider it, but in the end only God can take away my veil and reveal the truth to me and He will not tell me a lie. So much that is in the way of truth is fear, the devil has sown fear through deception. But I know the Lord has delivered and is delivering from deception so what is there to fear if we are truly His and love the truth? If I stumble He has already proved Himself in my life capable of helping me to my feet again..I trust Him. Though we were once deceived by a false lover, there is that aspect that we must be willing to open our hearts and risk again to find our true love, knowing, trusting that He is looking for us too. Esther risked all to enter into the Kings’ presence, although only after preparing herself, she had to be ready, it was not in presumption.
The things you have said here in the main are biblical and spiritual, things hinted at my heart is seeking the Lord and the scriptures about. I find too that my love for my brothers and sisters doesn’t depend any more on agreement over doctrine the way it used to. God is so much bigger than we understand, His love is agape, and we are all learning and growing. I have a feeling the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world is a big key to the truth.. but oh that veil!
(I’m a sister, by the way – Therese)
Watchful
I really liked what you have to say.
And yes you are my sister by the words you speak i can tell whos you are and that we have the same Father.
Something about the lamb slain the correct translation is disruption not foundation.
God had already made a way before man refused His word and in his heart slayed the word or lamb of God.
Before God even created man he already new that he would send his word the son wraped in flesh and enter the death that we were all in and rescue man from darkness by becoming what we were so we could become one with him in Christ.
Our Father is a mighty God we just could not see how far we were and are from Him.
So many can not see how great a salavation God has for us in Christ Jesus and it is now.
Well any way i really enjoy what you have to share Therese and i believe you are much futher ahead then you know.
Hi Therese (“watchful”), the Lord is teaching you some good “bits and pieces” (as you say) and He will continue to fill in your “blank spaces” (as you say)…
The underlying spirit and heart of your your last two posts above has made me smile in the Lord, Love in the Lord sister, Andrew… :-)
Andrew Horton
Well do my ears decieve me Andrew i believe you got it.
I do believe that what you thought was your heart was mabey just some indigestion. In the previous post you were thinking we weret related. If what Therese has said moves you to call her sister then we surly are brothers because i have no doubt about her and you seem to think so to. Since there is only one God and Father of all I do believe Andrew that we are related weather you like it or not. I think that maybe there may just be a age diffrence and some understanding but still the same family. If you knew me better you would like me. So if she is your sister i am your brother get use to it and know that there are many parts to the body and some of them are more diffrent then you can know but still of the body and one with you in Christ.
All I know is..much love to all of you in our Lord Jesus Christ..
Hosea 4: 6 (KJV) My people perish from a lack of knowledge.
Its one thing to know your Bible, but its an other thing to KNOW the God of the Bible.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, ”The scripture is our inexhaustible textbook, the Lord Jesus our boundless subject and the Holy Spirit our divine infinite helper“.
When Jesus had gone forty days in the desert fasting and praying. Jesus was hungry and at a weak point. One translation says, “he was faint with hunger “. The Devil, the tempter came to him. The question I put to you dear friends is this, when does the Devil tempts you the most ? Its at your weakest moment, its at your weakest point.
How did Jesus handle this moment? He brought God into it. He quoted the Bible, God’s word. Each time the Devil tried to trap Jesus, Jesus would respond, ”It is written!”
Many people are also robbed of blessings that the Bible tells us are ours in Christ Jesus, because we don’t know it, we never truly live in them?
Andrew J Horton wrote on 8/28/2010:
If Jesus of Nazareth – “Emmanuel, God with us” – was in you David (“David Larsen”) and speaking through you, then you would be speaking His words, His truth as recorded in scripture…
This is not occuring…
The “Christ in you”, which you refer to, living and speaking through you is not in agreement with the truth of the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth – revealed in scripture nor the inner witness of the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth – who lives in my heart by the power of His Holy Spirit,
Gary’s comment:
I am in complete agreement with what Andrew J Horton posted above. The God that you serve and worship is not the God (Father, Son, & Holy Spirit) that we serve and worship.
It is not about us growing in our heresies until we believe as you do. It is about you getting saved and serving and worshiping the only true God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
Your continuing denial of the truth of scripture (Bible) proves that you are not a brother in Christ. The Holy Spirit inspired all of scripture. When you say that scripture is wrong (no literal Heaven/Rapture/Hell), you are calling the author of scripture a liar, and His truth is not in you.
It is time for you to repent and be saved. Your days of causing confusion with the brethren on this site are over. You have been exposed for what you are (speaking for satan, not God).
If I am wrong, simply do the following to prove it:
1- Tell us that you worship and serve the trinity of God, Father/Son/Holy Spirit (three persons in one God).
2- Tell us that you believe that those people whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire, along with satan and his demons.
3- Tell us that you believe that those people whose names are found in the Lamb’s book of life will spend eternity in a new heaven with God.
4- Tell us that you believe in a literal rapture of the church where we go to meet the Lord in the air, prior to the second coming of Christ.
Summary:
If you cannot, or will not admit to the above doctrine, then you have no place with us worshiping our God, or fellowshipping with our God’s people. You are simply a counterfeit, and are deceiving anyone who will listen to your lies.
I must repeat what Andrew J Horton said above:
If Jesus of Nazareth – “Emmanuel, God with us” – was in you David (“David Larsen”) and speaking through you, then you would be speaking His words, His truth as recorded in scripture…
Your own words condemn you.
Gary Simpson
Hey Gary
I am not calling the author of scrtpture a liar.
You are putting words in my mouth.
The only one who is a liar is the devil and it sounds like he is your father if you do not know who i am.
Your thoughts about what scripture say are false and based on the teachings of carnal men and men that do not know God.
My words do not condemm me except to those who already are condemed and do not walk in the truth.
Gary i see no point in talking with you any more you clearly are not a child of the living God you are a deciever and only those who are decieved will hear your words of hate. As for staying here on this forum i believe i am about done here.
You all seem to be set on living in your sins and your false ideas about the true and living God my Father and the Father of the lord Jesus Christ whom you do not seem to know.
And the lies you have listed above are one of the reasons this is all failing. You are the one who believes lies and you have listed them above. You might send that list to Andrew Strom and let him know this is the reason he is going back to New Zealand these lies are part of the great falling away of what is truth and what is not. If you really believd that Christ was in you why would you be waiting for him to come again. Christ in you is the hope of glory. If he is not in you then you are still in your sins and from you post that would seem to be the truth. One thing you should know though Gary i believe there is hope for you and that someday even you will come to know my Father in Spirit and in truth and that you with all men will be saved. I guess what is really sad about you Gary is you are one of the most hate full people i have ever ment on any forum and so few see that because they have been blinded by the same lies that you have. You have tried to make God in your image and the image you have of God is not much diffrent then the one of Hitler. Hitler would not even need to be saved to enter your kingdom he could just take up where he left off burning people up and he could do it forever. Hey maybe there is a future for you why let God and hitler have all the fun i am sure they will let you burn a few when they get tired. Does that sound like fun to you it sounds to be like you alredy are on to a life long calling.
The Apostle Peter, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said:
Correction:
Reference to the above scripture – 2 Peter 2 (NASB)
Wayne, Regarding your last post, what if we look at it from heaven’s perspective? His strength is made perfect in our weakness, when we are weak we are strong. It isn’t a case of the devil attacking Jesus in His weakness – Jesus went out into the wilderness fasting and praying in order to confront the devil and overcome him. It was the devil who was afraid. Should we be afraid of him? Nay, we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us!
If we disagree with another then I don’t see why we can’t just present our evidence from scripture and let God decide who belongs to Him or not? Bickering and accusations on both sides accomplishes nothing – isn’t that of the flesh? And people are robbed of the opportunity then to both fortify themselves in the truth or repent and grow if they believe wrongly.
The scriptures speak in many places about hell, so of course there must be a hell. But it would be good to seek some revelation about the subject before assuming we know all about it without the Holy Spirit’s help. Maybe there is more to it than we have been taught in the fleshly false church, which has no revelation at all, true? At the very least we must realize that we have been taught from the wrong Tree. Tree of Knowledge, instead of the Tree of Life.
As for me, I yield to God everything I think I know, everything I have assumed, everything taught to me from the pulpits with nothing held back and ask Him to sift it all and feed me Himself the pure manna from the Tree of Life! If I die, I die!
Hi Therese (“watchful”),
As you know from our previous “chats” on various threads in this forum the Lord has been doing a deep work in me since March of this year…
At this point He is starting to reveal to me the hearts of some of the posters on this forum and leading me – although this is new for me – in a spirit of dependance on Him and prayer (hopefully with His humility) to confront spirits which He reveals to me are operating through various posters which do not glorify His Name…
I am (to the best of my knowledge) doing this in a spirit of love, i.e. wishing for those so being used to come to repentance and a right relationship with Jesus Christ our Lord, who is, as you’ve been posting recently, the Husband of His Church, the Body of Christ…
My love for Him and those who are His has grown to the extent that at present I am not concerned if I am misunderstood in what I’m doing, I will continue to do what I am doing, if Andrew Strom or the Moderators of this site do not agree with any aspect of what I’m doing and they tell me so, then I will graciously desist from that aspect of what I’m doing in deference to their leadership…
I am endeavouring to protect the true sheep of God – my brothers and sisters (of whom you are one) – from the attack of “vicious wolves” (who may or may not appear vicious at first glance), who are controlled by “seducing spirits” and speak “doctrines of devils”, who come in to this forum and endeavour to “worm their way” into our hearts and minds with their “destructive heresies”…
SInce we’ve “shared” so much on this forum in the past I just thought I should let you know where I’m at with the Lord at present and again I’m really happy to see what the Lord is showing you about the Church’s “set-apart-ness” to her Husband, the Head of the Church, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ… :-)
Much love in the Lord sister, Andrew
Andrew
The thing about wolves is they shear the sheep i what way have i done or doing that?
I ask money from no one and never will that is for those who preach lies about the kingdom of God.
The true kingdom does not cost a penny it is free and it is in the Spirit and few are there who enter in. I am the one who continues to have Andrew Horton and Gary Simpson dog me out with their carnal ramblings of scripture that they have learned in the falling church syatem. God is raising up a people now who not take from the sheep by lying to them the lies of Babylon.
We have to come down to this lower realm where most are still waiting for Jesus and believe that hell is a place like the other reliogns have where old world gods burn and torture people.
These are all the lies that are bringing down the church.
Yes the bible does talk about hell but a little study would show any that it is not the place that many think it is . Most would rather have there hell because they believe God is like their fallen nature and refuse to grow up and instead attack the true servants of God who tell all for free that Christ has come in the flesh that is us and raised us up to sit with him far above the carnal minds of men.
And now we know are Father and that men have misjudged him and are leading the children of God down a dark road.
As the scripture says making them twice the child of hell like themseves. Andrew Horton you are the one you should read the scriptures you have out lined above for your self. I to have been sent to proclaim truth to rescue some and will stay until those in charge make a choice between light and dark and they then will only have them selves to blame God has sent a true servant to warn to rescue some from the fire. That fire is now and very soon will grow very hot. Watchful your thoughts on misunderstanding what has been writen are 100% correct after i am asked to leave for good remenber your own words and seek him with all your heart there is much on the web to help you.
The best web site i know on the web is The Good Seed.org
The writings of Lloyd Ellefson are there and he was somebody i meant years ago and a real brother in Christ go there and look around and do it with a clean slate and let the Holy Spirit of God write his words on your heart so you will be a living espistl and not a daed book like so many others.
The Andrew i am talking to above is Andrew Horton not Andrew Strom.
Andrew Horton
If you really are glad about what watchful has shared why dont you take her advice and start with a clean slate and try to see that there is more to this then you have been taught.
I believe you are the one who is trying to trick people with your smooth words you tell her you believe what she says and turn right around and attack me for doing the very thing that she says may be the right thing.
Well Andrew J, bless you, think I better keep out of the fray then..
Might be a good idea sister… :-)
“they believe God is like their fallen nature and refuse to grow up ”
I agree with this in principle and noticed it too – we do tend to interpret scripture through the veil of our carnal nature – the way the scriptures are written is precisely to REVEAL OUR HEARTS this way. It’s also written in such a way as to raise us up in Him properly, not all at once, a child can’t handle certain knowledge or responsibilities until they grow into adulthood – otherwise God would have just spelled it all out for us, which He obviously didn’t.
Watchful
Yes you are right in what you say. He says he gives us power to become the sons of God there is a growing process and the doctrines of men will rob you of your growth in Christ causing you to see God in a false light. Read the parable of the sower this is what is happening in the churches and why there is no power.
They have believed lies and never grow up.
I always tell any who think i am a false prophet or from the devil to come visit me. If you are really from God and i am not come visit me and lets pray togeather and see who is true and who is false i have only had one show up most are just blowing smoke.
Even Gary Simpson and Andrew Horton come see me i live in Adrian Michigan my phone is 517-263-0917 call me and tell me about the true power of God i am here all the time this is what i do i fear none and welcome all but i will also caution you make sure of what you believe and call at your own risk. I am for real and that is the truth it is easy to make rash statments through a key board face to face is where the rubber meets the road. Truly i even love you two guys because you believe the things you have been taught and i forgive you but instead of attacking me every chance you get. Either make a call and lets get to it or go put your fear based torment on others.
Andrew,
I especially resonate with your word about “Bunker Mentality”. Whatever this coming judgment is, it will be far larger and more comprehensive than any mortal man could anticipate. The only place to “bunker down” is by calling 911: “He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty”. External preparation for what is to come is worthless. Only intimacy with the LORD shall sustain us.
David Larsen wrote:
Hey Gary
I am not calling the author of scrtpture a liar.
You are putting words in my mouth.
Gary’s comment:
Am I really putting words in your mouth, or are you really denying what scripture clearly teaches?
You deny the trinity of God.
Scripture clearly teaches the trinity of God (three in one).
1PE 1:1 (KJV)
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
MT 3:16
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
1 John 5:7-8:
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Summary:
It is not that scripture does not teach the trinity of God; instead it is you that denies what scripture clearly teaches, David.
It is not that we are looking at scripture through carnal eyes and minds as you claim. If you would get saved, and learn to walk in the Spirit, He would teach you the things of God which are spiritually discerned, the deeper things of God, the understanding of scripture from God’s perspective.
Then you would readily accept what you are so zealously opposed to, the trinity of God.
Gary Simpson
Gary Simpson
If you have something to say to me call me other wise all you are is a clanging cymbal
No where does my bible nor any bible say we are saved or are to know God in any way except through Jesus Christ. Through Christ alone any other way is a false way and is not the Spirit of God. What you say is false and any who have eyes to see can see this. No where iscripture does it say to know God you have to believe in a trinity. This is another gospel and is a lie.
As stated above Gary if you have something to say call me.
If you are really saved and filled with the Holy Spirit what do have to fear? Other wise you need to be still and refrain from all your evil chatter. The devil is clearly the one who is the accuser and you sir are being lead by that very spirit and i say so to you and if you would call i would tell you to your face. And if you were within distance i will come visit you and then we would find out who is real and who is not. So please Gary if you can not bring your self to call then leave it alone and go bother some one else.
Andrew Strom and Moderators
I have a question for all of you. In the past my self and others have been asked to leave this forum for talking about certain subjects. (trinty) (rapture) Is there some knid of double standard here? Since i have been back on here i have not brought these things up because you have asked us not to. And yet Gary Simpson and Andrew Horton continut to follow me around and bring up posts from the past and not one word is said to them in that we are not suppose to talk about these things. Not only do they talk about them they even go so far as to say there is no salavation with out them. If these are the kind of things you believe here it is not a wonder that things are not going well for all involved. This is another gospel and not the true gospel which is by grace through faith and in Jesus Christ only. Now your view may be diffrent then Mr Simpson and Mr Horton but when nothing is said or done when you have asked others to leave for bringing up these doctrines why are they allowed to stay and dog people out and not a word is said?
At no time in the past have i judged someones salavation because they believed God is a trinity or not and to do so is a complete lie is this what you belive here? By your silence to these men it would seem so. I would have at least thought you could moderate your own rules or is this a bias thing?
“And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)
My only hope is that some will read about it, heed it, and come out of these Latter Rain revivals. There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
leads to eternal life in Christ.
No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.
It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have
clearly been warned that it would come. It is still a little frightening that so many of God’s people today
could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.
“You shall be as gods.” The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army”
are putting forth today. You will become Christ – God on this earth. The heresy of Apotheosis. And yet
thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.
The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion. Like those foolish virgins of the
parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is
instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits. This counterfeit anointing comes with a
counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ. They
will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
“rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.
What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.
If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back
to the Bible. Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures.
“Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.” I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have
family and close personal friends there. But if they will not hear you – leave them behind.
The Latter Rain prophets are right about one thing – doctrine divides. Truth separates the wheat from
the chaff. In the early Church the Apostles kept the deceivers and false apostles out. They did this by
publicly identifying the heretics and warning the sheep of their false doctrines. Because of the diligence of
the true apostles of our Lord, the false apostles and their followers were forced to leave the Church. The
Apostle John writes:
“Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many
antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not
of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might
be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)
Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in
many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their
false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from among them in order to retain the salvation attained for us by The Lord Jesus Christ.
One word of warning. The modern versions of the Bible have systematically been purged of both the Deity of Jesus and the Blood of Jesus. And if you look at false cults, that’s the key hallmark–they deny either the Deity or the Blood, or both.
Get a King James, don’t be intimidated by its older usages, it’s just plain English, and study, study, study!!
I heard the story recently of the bank manager being interviewed–the interviewer posited that he must have to study a great deal of counterfeit currency in order to recognize it. The manager simply replied that, no, all one needs to do is study, study, study the real thing, and one will immediately recognize the phony.
Don’t know if you all have heard of this, but one of America’s beloved Founders, George Washington, was said to have had a vision of the Republic’s future during the time in Valley Forge. I have studied it and found it believable, and in spite of my public school education i know that Washington was a devout believer. Look it up and read it–it’s really interesting, and i believe we are seeing the fulfillment of it as i write.
Wayne, the bible doesn’t tell us to come out of the Latter Rain movement, it tells us to come out of the whole entire harlot counterfeit false religion church, the whole package, and that means to leave behind in the dust all her false doctrines and wrong understanding of scripture which are the product of fleshly, earthly thinking and to see God as He IS.
Only once we see the Lord as He is will we be like Him. Because we can’t or won’t see Him as He really is until our carnal nature is dealt with, repudiated, crucified and left behind – but once it is, we shall be like Him, restored as spiritual sons and daughters of a God who is Spirit and reproduces after His own kind.
Flee from Sodom (the world then the worldly harlot church then our own carnal mind) and keep going ALL THE WAY to the mountains – it’s an UPWARD call, ie, no longer fleshly but spiritual.
By the way, what are your thoughts about my post above in response to your previous one?
Watchfil
Preach it sister!
Bless you David, it’s what the scriptures are telling us and they don’t lie (except the odd place there’s a mistranslation), amen! I don’t have all the details, but these principles the Lord has graciously been opening my eyes to see, seeing as though through a mist that has been slowly clearing..but there’s something in me that I can’t, I won’t receive it from man, it must be the Lord through His scriptures alone, I don’t trust anything else any more..He will lead me ‘home’, bless Him!
Watchful
I always will tell someone when they start out in seeking truth.
Becarflul that in starting out you count the cost before you are done the masses will hate you as you become more like Him and less like the thing that Christ came to redeem.
Look at Jesus at the time of His death that is what we are suppose to be. The masses will not know you because they dont know Him.
What really happens is the more we walk in truth then the Spirit of truth finds a home in us and the one they throw rocks at is God himself and they think they are doing Him a favor.
By the very fact you talk to me sister i would say you are well on your way.
Thank you David for some very Godly counsel..I’ve seen it in my own home, one minute I’m despised because I don’t conform to the world, the next minute I’m acknowledged to be somewhat human – I can see the battle between the spirit of Christ and the usurper in them, and I have to acknowledge that I completely understand, having the same battle and seeing that same rock-throwing spirit rise up in me at times. It’s just that old man feeling threatened trying to hang on to his throne. But Love is increasing rather than waxing cold, and for that I’m grateful, that was one of my biggest worries for a while..
Watchful,
We are to come out of everything that is EVIL and leading people into following false gods.
Proverbs 14:12 says, “There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.”
..well said Wayne, I’m glad you agree. We first have to identify that false way – we’re more saturated with it than we think.
David Larsen wrote on 8/30:
Andrew Strom and Moderators
I have a question for all of you. In the past my self and others have been asked to leave this forum for talking about certain subjects. (trinty) (rapture) Is there some knid of double standard here?
John Sutton, as moderator of the Forum, wrote in an article entitled, “Rules and Guidelines”:
There are a few things we just do not discuss here, that divide the body of Christ and cause the most arguing.
They are.
1. Teaching no Godhead/Trinity – We here believe God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be the Divine part of the Godhead, One God in Three entities. Father Son and Holy Spirit.
2. Universalism – all go to heaven
3. No hell.
4. Claiming the Word of God is not all truth and in error.
5. Jezebel Spirit
6. No Replacement Theology – teaching the church is Israel.
Gary’s comment:
If you will read what John Sutton says the website rules are, it is easy to understand that when you speak against the trinity of God, you are not welcome at this website.
The sponsors of this website, as well as all true Christianity believe in the trinity of God as foundational truth.
When you speak against the trinity of God, we will receive you as we would any false teacher or ravenous wolf.
You will be treated as such, even though we may come across in a harsh manner.
Jesus pulled no punches when He called the Jewish leaders “children of their father, satan”, and neither will we pull any punches when we encounter false teachers.
We will not accept you as a brother in Christ as long as you deny our Biblically based, foundational truths.
Can you understand that, David?
Wayne wrote on 8/30:
What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.
Gary’s comment:
You are so right on that we need spiritual discernment in order to participate in “Spiritual Warfare.”
It is quite evident that many of the Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches do not have spiritual discernment, or they would never have endorsed or participated in either the Toronto Blessing or the Lakeland Revival meetings.
It is also quite evident that many of the Conservative Evangelical Churches have no spiritual discernment either, since they seem to reject the Holy Spirit in favor of the Bible.
We will never have any spiritual discernment until we begin to operate under the new covenamt; allow the Law of the Spirit of Life to set us free from the Law of Sin and Death; allow the Holy Spirit to control our minds; be filled with the Holy Spirit; walk in the Spirit; by the Spirit put to death the missdeeds of the body; and to be led by (in Step with) the Holy Spirit, because those who are led by the Spirit of God, are sons of God. (Rom 8:1-14)
Gary Simpson
Gary Simpson, your comment
“It is also quite evident that many of the Conservative Evangelical Churches have no spiritual discernment either, since they seem to reject the Holy Spirit in favor of the Bible.
is complete nonsense and must be rejected by everybody humbly submitted to conformity to the Will and Purposes of God.
Genuine christianity CANNOT exist without the BIBLE and the HOLY SPIRIT will ALWAYS confirm and NEVER contradict it.
The NEW COVENANT is salvation by faith in Jesus Christ Alone by the Grace of God Alone based on the teachings found in the scriptures Alone NOT the acceptance of occultic leadings from anti biblical anti christ spiritual entities masquerading as christian.
Any religion which peddles spiritual leadings devoid of biblical boundaries is NOT christian.
The HOLY SPIRIT and the BIBLE are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE in any way but work together to promote and achieve the Will and Purposes of God among those HE has predetermined to be salvageable by HIS act of grace.
They fulfill the intention of GOD perfectly by complementing each other totally and completely.
The HOLY SPIRIT without the BIBLE is like fire without fuel, electricity without electrical appliances, fuel without engines.
True spiritual discernment is based on convergence between leadings of the HOLY SPIRIT and BIBLE teaching or doctrine.
Any divergence whatsoever MUST be TOTALLY rejected as coming from satanic spirits rather than the Spirit of God.
Matthew 16:11
“How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducess?
Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the Doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”
The bread Jesus was talking about was not literal bread, but doctrine.
But why didn’t they understand?
It was because they had their hearts and minds set on things of this world, and not on things above. Yet God had something far more important than the literal bread of men in view. He was talking about the doctrines which were a far more dangerous intake than literal bread.
2nd Timothy 3:15
“Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman, that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
The Abomination of desolation of Matthew and Daniel speaks of a desolation of the Churches by the spirit of Antichrist through false gospels. The man of sin (lawless man) ruling in the Temple as if he was God, silences the true gospel. The faithful Word of God (bread) is hard to be found as those in the Church teach the error of false gospels, which cannot Save. There is famine of bread, and the deadly poison of wormwood is there. Gone is the spiritual Bread and the living waters of life. The Children’s tongue cleaving to the roof of their mouth is an illustration of this thirst. The man of sin has taken a seat in the temple replacing the man of God. He is under rule and authority of Satan, and this abomination before God will leave the Temple of God desolate. That’s why we are commanded to flee to the mountains when we see this. The Spiritual mountains of Zion, not physical mountains. The Lord’s Holy Mountain is the only real place of Peace and safety where believers are secure. In other words, we flee to the Spiritual Kingdom of God, which is truly our ‘Mountain Retreat!’ Mountains signify Kingdoms in scripture. And the Kingdom of God is our only retreat or place of refuge and safety in this time of woe.
Matthew 24 is saying it’s woe unto the Church at this time, because of the false gospels and false Christs’ deceiving them. That much is clear ‘even’ from the context of the passages speaking of trial, tribulation, falsehoods, and gross deceivings. We must be ready to get out. We are told not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and so when unbelievers take a seat to rule in God’s house teaching lies that is an abomination, we are to come out of her. We come out of that Church that has forsaken God that we not be partaker with the fan of sin. That Church will be judged. Woe unto the woman that give suck in those days, because her children go hungry and thirst, and there is no milk (Word of God) in that house. God is the same today, yesterday, and forever, immutable and righteous. The sucking Child is symbolic of those of the Church, and those who give suck of the Church from the slightly different perspective of those in care of those of the Church.
1st John 2:4-5
“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.”
The deceiving of the Church today can be seen from many different angles.
How many times you have testified to scripture explicitly, and professing Christians have either ignored it or twisted it?
How many times have you quoted scripture word for word, and had it called ‘just your interpretation?’ How many times have you witnessed to scripture, and had someone claim that in the original Hebrew or Greek it can mean something totally different. The fact is, many are blind and they have no problem at all with denying the truth, or even with telling a lie. Where there is no fear of God, there is no conscience. The Bible says that the fear of God is the beginning of knowledge (Proverbs 1:7), but fools despise instruction. It’s easy to understand then why many can reject and even deny God’s Word. They have no love of God, and thus no fear of God. The written Word of God to them is not the ‘Precious’ Word of the Almighty, but it is deemed something non authoritative, or something which they can manipulate to whatever is right in their own eyes. They won’t listen to the truth of the Word, because their Conscience is seared. This is not surprising, knowing the nature of man, it is to be expected.
1st Timothy 4:1
“Now the Spirit speaketh
Expressly, that in the latter times some shall Depart from the faith, giving heed to SEDUCING Spirits, and Doctrines of devils;
Speaking LIES in HYPOCRISY; having their CONSCIENCE Seared with a hot Iron;”
To say God did not say something when He has said it, or vice versa is a lie.
Acts 1:8
“But ye shall Receive Power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost parts of the earth.”
The true Church is the Pillar and Ground of the truth with Power by being in Christ, The Pillar. God gave not only the disciples, but all Christians the Power of the truth to witness of God, and that power is the Spirit of God. To deny what the Word says is a serious offence, as it is to deny God. IT IS NOT OUR WORD. IT IS THE WORD OF GOD!
We are simply His Messenger. But many calling themselves Christian, have no conscience and deny the word continually.
They would much rather argue with God than to receive what He says with humility. They have a form of Godliness, but deny the power thereof (2nd Timothy 3:5).
Luke 4:32
“and they were astonished at His doctrine: for His Word was with Power.”
1 Thess 5:21-22
Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.
We are exhorted to test the spirits or to discern the spirit behind a teaching and its fruit.
1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 Jn. 4:1)
In 1741 Jonathan Edwards wrote The Distinguishing Marks of a Work of the Spirit of God. He called his readers to evaluate the awakening by looking past the enthusiastic behavior to see the fruit. He wrote of five distinguishing marks of the Spirit’s work. He stated that Satan would not counterfeit activities that led to these responses. If we can answer yes to these then we should regard the manifestation as genuine even if it is unfamiliar to us.
Does it bring honor to the person of Jesus Christ?
Does it produce a greater hatred of sin and a greater love for righteousness?
Does it produce a greater regard for Scripture?
Does it lead people into truth?
Does it produce a greater love for God and man?
In other words, what helps us determine a manifestation as the work of the Spirit is what results from it. It’s not whether we fall down but rather what happens after we get up. Manifestations are not in themselves marks of spirituality, nor do they in themselves guarantee spiritual growth. The confirmation that a manifestation is of the Spirit is seen in the spiritual growth it brings. Is there a new love, humility, and holiness? Is there more fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness? Is there good fruit in the overall ministry or is the leader’s focus on exalting Jesus or getting money, or trying to showcase how much power they have? Are people receiving training in the faith? Is there pastoral oversight? Are people growing in the fruit of the Spirit?
Satan has always worked to divorce right belief from right practice, while working to divorce both from the power of the Spirit. We must refuse both dead orthodoxy and dangerous heresy.
We must do as Jude commands and “contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (Jude 3-4). The time is short. With a deep allegiance to Jesus, we must engage contemporary culture with the truth and works of the gospel demonstrated in the power of the Spirit.
3 I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 3-4)
What religion are you people peddling?
That is the whole point this is not about religion.
It is about a way of life and that life is with Christ in God it is and should be as far from religion as one can get.
I would say in one statment you have summed up what you really believe and made it clear for all to see. Thank you.
OK GUYS ENOUGH HERE! Lets get back to what Andrew brought here in this thread. and quit turning it into something else to fight back and forth about.
David Larsen you need to stop detering this thread.
Gary Simpson what you are arguing about has absolutely nothing to do with what Andrew has spoken here. You to need to stop.
Have you come to destroy this thread?
THIS IS ANDEWS WEBB SITE AND NOT YOURS TO DESTROY.
Let us get back to the original Webb site please.
For Andrew Strom and Harvestisripe:
I believe that there is a fair amount of carnal or false teaching (unknowingly) and some outright heresy (knowingly) being introduced by posters on this website.
It needs to be confronted. If this is done quickly by the moderators, it should eliminate any apparent arguments between the posters. If the moderators don’t respond, then the posters should.
I realize that this is Andrew’s website, and that we are guests who must abide by the rules, or leave. I am fully in agreement with this.
However, you of all people should realize that the words of a prophet of God (many of us) cannot be censored by a moderator. Keeping on topic is not as important as proclaiming God’s truth in the face of false teaching.
Tell us to leave the website if you wish, but please don’t attempt to censor our words.
Is it not the job of the Holy Spirit of God to tell us what to say, and when to say it?
Gary Simpson
Your commitment to extra biblical revelation and your persistent refusal to submit to the whole counsel of the Word of God makes it obvious that whatever you choose to call your religious perspectives are NOT related to genuine christianity in any way.
Faithful submission to the Word of God is what God requires of those HE calls HIS own. Persistent refusal to respond positively to the opportunities HE provides to conform to HIS revealed WILL results in INSENSITIVITY to the TRUTH and an inability to
1 Corinthians 16:13-14
(13) Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong.
Your carnal commitment to false religion has resulted in your acceptance of the delusion that the religion you have created in your own vain imagination is acceptable to GOD.
You only have yourselves to blame for the tragic awakening which will come upon you at the judgement day.
SADLY you will NOT be alone.
2 Thessalonians 2:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or OUR EPISTLE..
16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (SIN) IS EVERYTHING WHICH DOES NOT CONFORM TO THE WORD OF GOD
Harvestiripe
Thank you for stepping in and doing your job.
One other thing that I hope would be apparent to all.
No true prophet of God would have made the above statament in
fact no true child of God would have made it. Because true salavation in based on it.
Gary Simpson
It is not the job of the Holy Spirit of God to tell us what to say and when to say it.
A true Prophet would never even think such a thing how could they? All they know is only what the Father says nothing eles is important. Only true prophets speake what the Holy Spirit says and when to say it. All else comes form some other spirit you decide.
This website is imploding and has been just as I stated several no many posts back over and over. Everyone wants “their word imput” It is all opinions and suggestions and analysis sprinkled w/ scriptures. There is so much flesh involved and you know what? God is allowing it . As far as I can see many have too much self involved and want to be heard or condemn . There is so much twisting going on and many have left the church and have not renounced what took place in their churches or their lives from past sermons and teachings and allowed the Lord to wash them clean. All and that means ALL needs to be left at the alter and most of the mouths need to stay quiet long enough to have the Lord purge them of it.
Maybe things will change but it is up to those that are posting and those that are posting need to reflect upon THEMSELVES and not put out garbage or twisting or things that truly the Lord is not directing them to . This website has become a cesspool just like many other websites like Facebook etc.etc.etc. It is of the world not of the Lord. Oh yes, the Lord is mentioned and some have good intentions but face it many are just blogging to be heard or to crucify others w/ their negative remarks or religious spirits. There is jezebel in this blogging mixed w/ mammon , religious spirits .
Everyone needs to quit looking at others and look within themselves and just hush up for a while. Allow Andrew to pack and get settled and start afresh if that is
his choice. God , I believe in his word states do not slander, do not fight, and once again their is one tongue and one mouth for a reason. Use it wisely. Once again, look within yourself and if there TRULY is a word from the Lord write it. Otherwise zip the lip!!!!!
Enough already. I just got back online. I am writing from New Zealand.
No – you cannot “hijack” threads, please.
Keep them on topic.
Thankyou so much.
-Andrew
David Larsen wrote:
No true prophet of God would have made the above statament in
fact no true child of God would have made it. Because true salavation in based on it.
Gary Simpson
It is not the job of the Holy Spirit of God to tell us what to say and when to say it.
Comment:
What I actually wrote was a question, not a statement:
Is it not the job of the Holy Spirit of God to tell us what to say, and when to say it?
Check it out for yourself.
Gary Simpson
I did Check it out and i see you are right. This being true then I would hope you would listen to the Holy Spirit and not some other spirit . I am seeing more and more though that this website is just like being in most churches. We have a pastor Andrew Strom we have a board the moderators. We have a congeration
made up of all sorts some saved some not . We have a doctronal statment or what we say the bible says and you better not cross this line or out you go. I believe most here mean well but most here believe the same things that most of the ones you are finding fault with believe and that is where the problem lies.
I believe i was asked to come here to help Andrew see that most of what the Church believes is just not true. No matter how much you find fault with the Benny Hinns and the Todd Bentlys of the world the bottom line is most of what you guys believe is the same and until this changes you will continue to fail as the rest of the church system fails also. I believe it is time for me to leave so some will get up and cheer. There is a whole internet out there and many believers preaching truth and many not. I guess in the end you will all have to decide for your selves. I will say this and it will be hard for most to hear. If any one is preaching a Christ other then the one who has already come and lives in you as a beliver then that is another Christ. And the only anti-Christ you have to worry about is your self if that is you and the sad part it is most of you. It is Christ in you which is the hope of glory and by miss reading the scripture most of you are waiting for something thst God has already done. By seeing Him off some where you will never be changed into His image because He is the one you keep rejecting. It does matter what you believe and most believe in a Jesus that will come and rescue them in person and you fail to comprend the greatness of our God and like children you continue to look out the window for something that will never happen because it already has. Christ is a life giving Spirit and He has come to dwell in a people and transform them into His image so God Himself can dwell in them. That is how He is coming back He wants to come back in you and me and we the church are to be and always were to be His dwelling place.
But just like the Jews you are looking for somebody to kill all your enemys and you your selves have become his enemy but killing all with your words and carnal doctrines. You even fight Christ in you in favor of not up setting any body who you hold in favor over the Christ who dwells in you . And so you never grow and all Paul said you become reprobate or as if you are not even saved and the truth is most of you live in fear everyday just like the rest of the world because you do not know God nor the one He has already sent to live in you because you are always waiting for someone to fullfill your dreams instead of Gods. So I will be leaving and wish you all well and love all of you but Until you come to know God through the Son of God there is no point in me talking to you any longer. Paul said to follow me as i follow Christ so many are just following a God of thier own making and instead of Christ they are just following someone who looks like them selves.
“And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man.” –Genesis vi. 3.
David, thanks for everything, if you leave i will miss your testimony here, but I know you have to do what you have to do. I begin to get a glimpse of the glorious freedom of the chidren of God. So many things in scripture if people would only acknowledge they don’t really understand and experience what it means, and begin to seek God, it would be a good start.
The other day while driving, I saw two license plates – one said SCLS OUT, meaning ‘school’s out’, it’s time to grow up in Him, and the other one said B 4GIVN, meaning ‘be forgiven’, I still need to apprehend and receive all that really means! I knew the Lord was talking to me because I had just been talking to someone about those things and was on my way home, the need to leave behind the ways of childhood, the flesh, the tutoring of Law and grow up into the Spirit, and become spiritual people. The Gospel, what is it really Lord? Much more than I knew – what a leap of faith to jump into forgivenness!
Luke The Parable of the Widow and the Judge
18
And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 2 Saying, There was in a city [1] a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. 4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. 6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. 7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that [2] they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
FALSE RELIGION IS EVERYWHERE – WE DO NOT NEED MORE FALSE RELIGION
As with the article on Glenn Beck and his mormon revival
FALSE RELIGION will always be FALSE RELIGION.
TRUE DISCERNMENT STARTS AND ENDS WITH THE WORD OF GOD
Luke 18:8 Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
As in the days of Noah most people are accepting false religion and being taken to hell by ignorance of the TRUTH of the Word of God.
Andrew. Did you return to New Zealand? Did you go back to Christ’s Church? If you did the Lord just confirmed your word regarding America and the world. God help us!!!
David Cottrell
Please explain to us how Andrew’s return to Christ’s Church (if he actually went there) would confirm the things that Andrew has been writing?
I cannot see any connection. Am I blind?
How can an earthquake in New Zealand confirm an apostate people in the United States?
Please be specific, not in general, please. Help my mind to understand your reasoning.
Gary
Watchful wrote:
I begin to get a glimpse of the glorious freedom of the chidren of God.
Gary’s comment:
Spend some time meditating on Romans 8:1-2 regarding both freedom from sin, and no condemnation from God:
RO 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
As Jesus says in John 8:36:
36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
God is soooooo good.
Gary