FALSE PROPHECY Causes HUNDREDS KILLED
NOTE: This slaughter is confirmed by reports from International Christian Concern (‘persecution.org’) and other sources. Harold Camping’s false prophecy from earlier this year caused hundreds of Hmong people to be slaughtered. Below is a new report from Jacob Prasch in the actual region describing how it happened:
FALSE PROPHECY Causes HUNDREDS KILLED
-by Jacob Prasch.
As most of you are aware I am at this moment in North Vietnam
helping the much persecuted Hmong people of the tribal mountain areas.
After listening to a translation of Camping’s prediction 7,000 of these
people (known in The West as Montagnards) gathered on a mountain
praising God – their suffering at the hands of the Communist regime
was about to end because Jesus was returning that day in May to
establish a new kingdom.
The police and military police slaughtered many of them at gunpoint
beheading two pastors. Others were arrested . I am told by Hmong
pastors that so many were shot dead that they were buried in mass
graves bulldozed over in an episode that I read about in Britain
but did not understand the magnitude of until I got here. I am now
trying to clean up the mess at the request of local Hmong leaders.
I spoke to a secret convocation of Hmong pastors only yesterday
who came to Hanoi, explaining to them about false prophets and
false teachers.
Due to a combination of poverty, ignorance, and persecution these
poor Christians don’t understand much so they believed Camping’s
shortwave broadcast which is how most get their teaching in a
certain village area with heavy persecution. Their families don’t know
if their missing loved ones are among the many shot dead, among
those arrested and imprisoned, or among those from the 7,000
hiding in the jungle.
I am not the nicest guy in the world let alone the best Christian
and I can’t pretend to be. But anyone who had to deal with the
confusion and devastation I am dealing with now due to Harold
Camping would also blow their top. These people already suffering
for their faith in Jesus had it bad enough. They are not like the
undiscerning whackos in The West who should have known
Camping was a crackpot and a proven false prophet & false teacher.
This is a persecuted church who just had no means to know any
different. This is why I get angry at those who deceive the Body of
Christ and why I warn so much about false teachers and false
prophets. It may be an extreme case but these people, some of
them children, were shot dead. Of course we can blame Satan and
the communists but their blood is on the hands of Harold Camping
and his Family radio. Women without husbands, children without
parents, husbands without wives – thank you Family Radio; thank
you Harold Camping.
Frankly, this has been a rough week for me. One of the worst I ever
had. I am up to my eyeballs in muck trying to explain to tribal
pastors how to explain to their people why their families were
massacred needlessly and trying to advise them how to potect
their flocks from such wolves in the future…
The anguish of the Hmong folk took my concentration off of my
own problems… because their problems are so much greater
after what they refer to as ‘the mountain massacre’ due to Harold
Camping.
Please pray for these people and the work of Moriel Asia branch
here among the Hmong. We are trying to get 5,000 outlawed
Hmong bibles printed or smuggled in via Laos.
Where does it end? These people are suffering terribly while
Camping is still in business in Oakland, California – as usual telling
more lies… Come Lord Jesus.
Article Source – http://www.moriel.org/
My oldest daughter is married to a Hmong man who live in North Carolina with other relatives who immigrated to the United States because of Christian persecution.
My daughter has noticed that her Hmong family members are too easily corrupted in faith by deceivers and that there is much sexual abuse and mistreatment of women still in that culture. We need to really pray for these people. It cannot be that the reason why they are so easily deceived is because of their “simplicity”. I think it is due to the fact that they have a tendency to look to man to get their instructions instead of looking to God.
At least be comforted that their hearts were toward Jesus when they died. They have left a testimony. We are all called to give our lives to proclaim the gospel. We are all called to read the word so we are not taken in by errors and false prophecies.
Very many churches are preaching love for the man Jesus without the following of His words.
See MARIE DEVINE TESTIMONEY_IMPORTANT NOW ISSUES at http://www.divine-way.com
for power pastors and church members need to overcome our many problems now. God has provided our escape IF we use it in time.
I fulfill many prophecies and many more are close at hand. As many pastors will recognize, we have no power IF God were not showing great destructions and other signs and wonders. The scripture says, we would almost be as silent if not for God’s work.
We have heard from a very reliable source that Harold Camping is presently in a nursing home on a feeding tube following his recent stroke. He can neither talk nor swallow.
Hi all ! Just a quick note on this slaughter, and it is probably not going to be very well taken. First of all is Harold and was Harold camping wrong for his action…yes!! However it is not his fault that these people were killed. The fault lies on and only on the people who did the killing!!
These people are murders and enemies of Christ, and they killed and slaughtered those who celebrate and trust in Him. They did not need a reason, they would have done so at any excuse, so lets put the blame where it really belongs, at the feet of the ones who actually did it and ordered it done. If a falsehood is responsible for peoples actions at hearing it, then there would be very few people held accountable for their crimes!
As for Harold Camping, hopefully by God’s grace he learns the 2nd time around. But these wonderful brethren died at the hands of those who actually did the act, not Harold Camping. Lets put the fault where it belongs, not according to our dislikes.
with you in His service,
Allan
Not only is Harold Camping being cared for in a nursing home & his speech is now impaired but his radio show is off the air as well the last I read.
On another note ~ a friend who is also an online missionary w/Global Media Outreach had informed me she’s had quite a few contacts contemplating suicide due to Camping’s latest false prediction.
..Oh my God!!…first lodge a complaint in an appropriate US jurisdiction, (put a caveat on all his interest and properties) which may lead to this son of satan in the nursing home charged for deception, crime against humanity, murder etc, and continue civil action to grab all his properties with all proceeds solely for the benefit of this poor community…that is if [] wishes to redeem himself a bit …..
humble apology…should be Harold
Camping!!
very tragic indeed, I hope to be in Vietnam this winter and meet some of these dear people… this false nutcase has caused many problems for undiscerning people and it will continue until the end of time as there will always be false nutcases and undiscerning people around, GOD help us.
Sadly they (many) perished for want of knowledge, and were lost for lack of a True Shepherd/Pastor/Prophet to truly lead, direct and to guide them. Judgement is upon the very head of Harold Camping for the leading of many astray as they were truly led to the slaughter.
The Lords WORD does not, nor can it lie:
Jeremiah 23:
1 Woe be to the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! said the LORD. 2 Therefore thus said the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; You have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit on you the evil of your doings, said the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:15 Therefore thus said the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.
16 Thus said the LORD of hosts, Listen not to the words of the prophets that prophesy to you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
17 They say still to them that despise me, The LORD has said, You shall have peace; and they say to every one that walks after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come on you.
18 For who has stood in the counsel of the LORD, and has perceived and heard his word? who has marked his word, and heard it?
19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously on the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days you shall consider it perfectly.
21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
23 Am I a God at hand, said the LORD, and not a God afar off?
24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? said the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? said the LORD.
25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. 26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; 27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbor, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal. 28 The prophet that has a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that has my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? said the LORD. 29 Is not my word like as a fire? said the LORD; and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces? 30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, said the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbor. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets, said the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He said.
32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, said the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, said the LORD.
I hope that there is someone who knows Harold Camping and is able to take this article into his nursing home room and read it to him.
Even if 999 out a 1,000 people were not affected by his false prophecies – given the hundreds of millions who heard it, Harold will have to answer for the spiritual damage of thousands and thousands of people. And we can be rest assured that God knows each and every one, and He will hold Harold personally accountable for each and every one. It is not going to be fun to be Harold on Judgement Day.
speaking of falseness did you know satan who deceives the whole world (Rev. 12:9) has done his job well… http://religionstinks.xanga.com/669573192/item/ http://www.thewordsofeternallife.com/cross.html The jesuits changed the Hebrew meanings of Scripture when they infiltrated the translation process of the KJV. http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp Galatians 4:16 Be blessed all
If a man gets drunk, then has sex with his daughter, That is sin ! Yes, but whom has the greater sin the dad or the mom whom knows what is going on, and yet doesn’t want to mess up her way of life ?
Paul, corrected Peter in the open (Gal.2);
Where are the ‘leaders’ /Paul) of the church, christian radio, etc. H. camping has had a # of false prophetic; this wasn’t the first. Look at the calvary chapel movement, when the Holy Spirit left it back in late 70′s they then got fame, $$$, by claiming rapture by fall of 1981; what leaders repented from them ? they now claim something about a white bull, and 2014; (every few years, it is a new thing about how they know when the rapture will happen). False prophetic words from Kansas city, more then true ones.
Bk of James tells us if the roots are bad tree / branches /fruit will be also. H camping, has bad roots, as does most of the false prophet. Most of the prophets of today, think their is a pre-rapture, and look at how few of their words come to pass ! bad roots = bad fruit. oh they maybe nice persons, ‘sound’ bible teachers etc. but ‘sound’ bible teachers = no Holy Spirit or at best Holy Spirit of a choker chain.
When the church repents for our sins of seeking $$$, #’s, leaders care more about following Jesus, then who’s in their church, then this judgement will stop, and false teachers will be explored.
Anyone who thinks they can simply predict the rapture or Christ’s return, is not acting or thinking right. (Probably over excitement or in the case of Camping, wanting more radio listeners maybe??)
We are simply to observe things and know it is getting closer. Its common sense not to make silly predictions, also to listen, take seriously or in other way adhere to these wild suggestions.
God is not the author of confusion but peace, after all.
I am glad to hear that sensible Christian teachers are in Vietnam to try and teach the folk there more soundly.
Wisdom is the key to peaceful living. I hear all sorts of stuff emanating from Christians, but close communion with Jesus is the answer. Reading the Word of God for oneself with a clean and loving heart allows the Bible to interpret itself.
It is a great pity regarding the false teachings and prophecies from Camping. This man also has a great following here in South Africa, and many people were deceived.
Regarding the Hmong people; Father God Almighty, in the Name of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, I pray that these people will be comforted by Holy Spirit. Father, I proclaim in the name of Jesus that where they do not have true teachers and leaders of your Word, that You would send Holy Spirit to teach them. (But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. John 14:26)
Thank you for people like Jacob Prasch that are involved in the proper and true teaching of Your Word. Please allow more people with a passion for the Hmong’s to go and minister to that misguided and now, confused group.
Please forgive Camping and his followers for their disgusting twisting of Your Word. Please let them come to a place of proper understanding and repentance of Your Word and their misdeeds.
Please let not one of us become haughty and verbally judge Camping and his followers, but remind us to rather pray for their salvation. In the Mighty name of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, amen.
What if he is senile? What if the confused, misguided words of a senile person led a world of people who should have know better into a direction where they continued the communication onward to a group of people who trusted us because we were Americans or Aussies or New Zealanders or Europeans?
What if we should have believed God when He told us nobody knows the hour or day, but we didn’t, and people perished for trusting us?
How do we repent if we did not do that personally? How do we repent if we did?
In other words, we can cast blame, but the Devil has always been here. So, what should we do about this situation as Christians?
Pray? Help? Send aid? Go there and face them personally?
What would God have us do?
Real guilt does not make credible false guilt. We need to be careful about condemnation from the accuser of the brethren, and at the same time we need compassion to pray.
We cannot repent for the color of our skin or our nationality, and we cannot repent if we were not in agreement with this false prophecy, if we did not support it, if we warned against it and prayed. Repentance in that case would be utterly deceitful and insincere. But we can express our disapproval for what was done and we can empathize and we can pray diligently, fervently, and we may be able to do something to help.
lookks like for harold camping his predictions are a bit out, he may see them coming true soon….lets pray he does see the face of jesus when he dies….
This is a sad, shocking illustration of what can happen when we are deceived and believe something contrary to the Word of God.
I think it also points out the importance of a believer’s personal responsibility before God to know the Word of God. How many of us really read, study, memorize and meditate upon the WHOLE word of God? Or are we too busy or having other priorities to give God’s Word the priority His Word demands it have in our lives?
Without a doubt we are living in the last days and as Paul prophesied in 2 Timothy 3:1, they are indeed perilous and dangerous times. This whole episode should serve to stir us believers to dig more into God’s Word and to press more into our walk with the Lord. Not only must we know God’s Word intellectually, but we must be living and walking in a vital relationwhip with God by the power and presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives. He is the One Who truly teaches the Word. And He is the One who will direct, warn, instruct, and guide the believer in all things.
While God has given us the grace of being part of His Body and given gifts to His Church in the form of teachers, pastors, etc. each of us must be careful to ultimately keep our focus on Jesus and walking in the Spirit.
If Christ is on the pedestal of our lives instead of a man, we eat sleep,and live the Word of God, and we are living in, full of, and led by the Spriit of God, then we will survive and thrive in these spiritually dangerous days.
May God help us and grant us all an abundant outpouring of His grace in these matters.
God bless,
Wayne
To be sure, what the Hmong people are suffering ( those who are left ) can only be described as gut wrenching.
Matthew 10:15-17
[ Persecutions Are Coming ] “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
Wayne is absolutely right though. Those of us who can, and have had some sound teaching – will heed these things – and will seek Him all the more.
I do believe the days are coming, whereby it will become an absolute necessity – to be led by Him, moment by moment – .
And when the Lord has got hold of such a one, then the Harold Campings of this world will fade away, as the new Wigglesworths stand up to proclaim the truth. And what a day that will be.
But it has to be Jesus leading you all the way, in everything that you say – and in everything that you do.
God bless
David Marsh
It is time for us, each and everyone, to rise up and do our bit in these last times. If the church, the whole church, had been and was doing it’s job – preaching the gospel to all men and making disciples of all nations – then there would be no place or opportunity for false prophets to be proclaiming their lies out over the airwaves. Each tongue, each people group, each nation would have Bible teachers/pastors/evangelists in their midst, they would not be alone and fall victim to him who roams around like a roaring lion seeking who he might devour. We are all responsible. We must go and do what Jesus told us to do 2,000 years ago.
Lets look closer at this.
Those people did not have teachers of their own because Christianity is outlawed in that country. They relied only on what they were told through the radio broadcasts that the government could not actually block. If they are fed false information then it is not surprising they took a fall.
Now the question is what can we do about it ?
What is needed is to renew a push for the bible societies, get more bibles printed and distributed into the closed areas of the world in the local languages of those people so they have a means of double checking and the tools needed for discernment.
At this late stage, instead of throwing our money at churches and programs and other local institutions dedicated to community entertainment, it may be far wiser to look at the missionary societies and throw our offerings into bibles for those that are cut off from the main body in far flung places who are struggling on their own with no real teachers or pastors.
May God have mercy on his soul! What a responsibility…
Good to hear about other Christians who aren’t ‘the best of Christians’. This is a sad story. What can one say? Come quickly, Lord Jesus.
I’m having problems tracking down the source of this information. The website cited has several posts on recent violence against the Hmong, but no really large number. When I called the number listed on the posted website, I kept being taken back over an automated list of choices that never allowed me to either reach the reporter in question, or leave a message.
For the record, Vietnam does allow Christianity, but the real complaint against them is that they want it only in controlled forums, i.e. the official churches. While the Hmong in Laos may have fought the Communists during the Vietnam War, their brethren n North Vietnam did not. I traveled that region once in 2008, and found it relatively prosperous. However this was all near Sapa, which is very popular with tourists, so I do not presume that such is life for everyone else among the ethnic minorities. For the record, the term Montagnards was reserved for those tribes of the Southern Plateaus. The northern groups are best referred to as ethnic groups, as they are not tribal in organization, and most have areas extending into nearby Laos and Southern China. Dien Binh province is well to the east of Sapa, and Muong Nhe district in the northeasternmost corner of the country, bordering Laos and China, so it is an area of high interest from a defense perspective.
If anyone has any specific source for specific casualties, I would be very interested in seeing a link. Long experience with such reports has taught me that the first report is usually wrong, and that traumatic incident reports often take on a life of their own. Though I served with Rhade, Jarai, and Raglai troops in the war, I did have a good Hmong friend, proudly not a Christian, though who attended church to thank the Lutherans who had sponsored himself and his family, Sadly, he got so homesick for his Laotian mountains that he committed suicide, I believe in hopes that he would be reborn there.
My heart is so saddened by this tragic happening. I cry out to God for Christians everywhere to stand for Truth in this dark day, even in our churches. We must stand and speak out for truth, even if it means confrontation. We need to step out of our comfort zone for Jesus. It takes love to save others, God’s love. Love enough to care and speak out and point the way to Jesus, who is the Truth, the Way and the Life. I do believe that the devil has a choke hold on the saints, and many dare not speak out because of it. Words can be used for life or death: let’s use ours for life, but we got to speak out the Truth whether they hear or not. Selah.
This article has helped me, it gives me a stronger resolve to speak out against the apostasy of our day. I am a pastor, retired now from the pastorate but not from ministry. I see a lot in the “emerging church” and the forming of the “one world religion” it saddens me to know error is rising within the church, leading many not only to lose their life and walk in Christ, but lose out eternally and we are not speaking up. Those who do are put out and labeled contentious. This is causing a slaughter of many Christians as well, and just as deadly as this horror mentioned here. God help us to stand for Biblical Truth.
It seems also, many are using Scripture to prove their error, and we may ask, “how can we discern what is really True?” Well, those who Truly belong to Jesus will know the Truth by the Holy Spirit, we need no man to teach us, so says the Word. God is dividing the holy from the unholy and drawing a line in the sand preparing His church for His return. This tragedy brings to our attention the cost of our inaction. I for one, feel the fire of God burn within my soul to stand and do what ever I can, whatever the cost for Truth. In quietness and confidence (inwardly) but speaking outwardly for Christ and Truth, I resolve to go forward, as God opens the way and gives opportunity, I will gladly take it. I do believe H Camping’ word is responsible, and He must see it and repent to be clean of His bloodquiltiness. WE must take a lesson from this and not see the results of such error, and that it never enters the camp. Unfortunately this kind of error or elven has already has started a fermentation through the church at large in the sect of the emerging church, remember, the anti christ and false prophet is said to emerge out from the sea (mass of people). Pastors, line up with the Word, or many will end up in the same tragic condition as these poor people. I am so grateful for A Strom and saints like him that are on the front line. I just wish I could do more as well, however, whatever we do small or grate, we must stand in our place in Christ. God help us in this our day.
I believe we need to tread carefully here. Yes it is an outrage that people were led into deception, and the outcome lays squarely at the feet of those who murdered the Hmong. Many are deceived by doctrines of devils, and false prophets/prophecy within our own borders and by the grace of God are not being murdered for coming under the likes of H. C.‘s deception.
Only God knows his heart, and to condemn H.C. as responsible for the sorrowful outcome the Hmong are experiencing is to say he murdered them with the intent to kill. I for one leave this with God to judge and judge He will. David a man after God’s own heart premeditated murder and carried out the act, only to repent, seek mercy and forgiveness for that atrocious act. I hope and pray that H.C. comes to full repentance and leaves this earth in God’s embrace.
We can learn a lot about warning others about deception from this terrible event.
This article by is Jacob Prasch who I have come across before. I have always thought him too harsh and over bold from his own flesh when pointing out deception and those involved even though he is however usually right. He has just gone right up in my estimation here;
He said “I am not the nicest guy in the world let alone the best Christian and I can’t pretend to be.”
Well such honesty from a believer, especially a leader of high ish profile is so refreshing. GIVE ME AN HONEST MAN OVER A NICE MAN ANY DAY! We are only earthen vessels after all.
I still think we should be careful not to be over harsh or earthly in our exposure of deception but how much more harm has come from “nice” leaders who tell people what they want to hear and repeatedly deceive the body of Christ with false prophecy as Camping has.
If only the rest of us could take ourselves and image less seriously, admit our faults and stop trying to pretend to be more than we really are. Non of us are infallible, we make mistakes and have character weaknesses and should admit both if we want to serve God.
Ministries in the western world appear too concerned with popularity and outward appearances, they try to appear professional and rarely admit their errors, when what does that matter when terrible atrocities are happening to our brothers and sisters in other nations as reported here.
How very sad Jesus must be over the suffering of such innocent ones that have had little instruction. I know I am very sad. So much evil in the world we now live in. I think about the suffering of those in Sudan because they love the Lord.
Thank you Andrew for bringing this to our attention.
By the way – when we don’t hear anything coming out of your web site, we worry about you and your family.
A few years ago nearly 60 pastors or other evangelical Vietnamese nationals were allowed out of prison after bribes were paid at $200.00 apiece for a total of $12,000.00. This is a game the government had often played to empty its jails and get money to boot. A crafty “local” with some nerve could possibly do the same for those imprisoned now, then the government could display its mercy publicly by releasing the Christians as a sort of show.
If I hadn’t already been a cessationist, I’d become one now! If the “Gifts of the Holy Spirit” had truly still been available to the Church as such, rather than being replaced by the more sure Scriptures, surely those poor Hmong Christians would have been given Discernment of Spirits and not been deceived by Camping’s prophecy! “Moderate” pentecostals, please note.
I have gone to the site:
http://www.persecution.org/2009/12/13/laos-persecution-of-lao-hmong-christians-animists-buddhist-dissident-believers-intensifies/
I can find this same article on many websites but when I go to the International Christian Concern (‘persecution.org’) and other sources site, I can not find it. I may be just over looking it.
Would someone be able to verify this for us?
Lucinda
Here is the link for Christian Concern’s first report of the massacre, I believe-
http://www.persecution.org/crossingthebridge/2011/05/27/harold-camping-and-the-christian-hmong-of-vietnam/
And John – I believe that Harold Camping is a cessationist himself – which no doubt is a big part of the problem.
-Andrew
Thank you very much Andrew.
Lucinda
I can’t express the sadness I feel after reading that article.
Lucinda
It is truly horrible and awful. I totally agree.
I received this response from a former teammate of mine who served with me in VN in 1968-69:
I’ve spent a few hours trying to track down the source of this report, and cannot find a single one. The International Christian Concern website that comes up says nothing about a 25 May massacre, or of “hundreds” being massacred, but it does note the deployment of PAVN to the region. It does speak of Hmong being killed in far fewer numbers on May 21, and May 11, apparently related to the gathering of many Hmong for this second coming. There are even reports of Hind gunships being used to destroy villages, etc. But again, no specific numbers or locations. Now, Dien Bien province is the northeasternmost province of Vietnam, and Muong Nhe District the northernmost of the province, so it borders both Laos on the east and China in the North, and is both a region of high military interest (Note that China and Vietnam had a recent facing off in the Spratley Islands, which no doubt is reflected in tension along the border) and difficult to travel in and out of. These reports could very well be true, but what is needed is some factual reporting and not circular reporting.
Given the recent difficulties with China, I would not want to be a Hmong gathered for any “Second Coming.” The authorities are nervous enough as it is. So my gut feeling is that something happened. But chasing down the truth on the casualties will be difficult.
It truely is a devistating tragedy beyond comprehension. My parents and sister had to escape with their lives from the communist oppression from Romanians storming Hungarian churches in what was known as Erdely, murdering Christians while they sang hymns, bulldozing theyre homes in the early mornings when families were still asleep, bulldozing and robing cemetaries. All commited with out any one in the world knowing. In 1993 I went with my family to what now is known as Transilvania, to visit the few cusins I had left, and when we visited the graves of their parents and my grand parents, I witnessed coffins that were still only half way placed back into graves with lids still cracked open only a couple of inches. My cusins told me when I asked why things haven’t been fixed and replaced. They said they wouldn’t dare say anything, complaining only gets you killed. The other things I saw were of obducted children mutilated with hot iron for scar tissue, forced to beg on streets for the packs of Romanian gypsies, just like pimps. I cryed for them because they all suffered in secrecy. All eighteen rolls of film of photos I took were erased in Oradia by officials. Praise the Lord for Andrew being a witness and voice for those brothers and sisters in Christ. I HATE communists with all my breath and strength, and I pray nothing but judgement on them to taste fire for ever.
And Praise the Lord for Jacob being there witnessing. Sorry I am still seeing red. I meant Jacob, but thank you Andrew for posting this for us. My news chanels haven’t mentioned anything. Or if they have this is the first time I heard of the tragidy in Vietnam. I wonder if Dave Roever will be going back soon. I know he still has alot of Christian friends there.
Again – here is the link for what I believe was Christian Concern’s first report of the massacre-
http://www.persecution.org/crossingthebridge/2011/05/27/harold-camping-and-the-christian-hmong-of-vietnam/
I also believe Jacob Prasch can be believed since he is right there on the spot – and a well-known Christian preacher.
In your statement you said that you are trying to explain to many Christians why so many of their family members died needlessly. You claim to be infuriated by the false prophesies that cause such things to happen, but you are making a mistake. First of all, If you truly understand the Bible and the heart of God, you would know that what has happened to these people is the most glorious thing that could have happened to them. They were martyred for the sake of the Gospel. though they responded to a false prophesy, they were unaware of its falseness, but they still worshiped the true Jesus and still put faith in the fact that He will return. That is what the Bible commanded them to do. Their death was not needless as you say. By telling the remaining Christians that the deaths were needless you are lying and giving your own false prophesy and becoming guilty of the crime that you are judging another for. By telling people that the deaths were needless, you are only teaching that faith in Christ’s return is needless. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Saying that martyrdom is needless only takes the wind out of the sails of the faith that is spurred on by martyrdom. Instead you should be teaching them that their faith was not in vain and the event was needed to be a trial that purifies the faith of those still remaining and spur on even further growth of the Church. And you should teach them to discern the voice of the Holy Spirit inside their own hearts because the Holy Spirit in their hearts will guide them into all truth just as Jesus said the Holy Spirit would do. If they were able to hear the Holy Spirit in their heart they would have not believed the voice of the enemy. Regardless, they joined together to worship Jesus openly together and their death was not because they believed a lie but their death was because they were worshiping Jesus and therefore their death was not needless but was needed to inspire the rest of the Church to worship greater than ever before.
the solution is simple- all you idiots who keep believing there is a pre trib rapture need to repent, but especially the fraud teachers who keep teaching the lie. there is no pre trib rapture- we’re all going thru this people so stop listening to the stearmans, lahays, hutchings etc. ad nauseam. the trib is coming at us very soon-preparation is needed, not some lovey dovey fantasy. the pre trib rapture may prove to be the biggest lie ever in biblical history, and has made the leaders who propagate more and more money, while ruining peoples lives.i don’t just blame camping, it’s all who continue to promote this lie. for those who still believe in a pre trib crapture-just wait a little longer, don’t coward out and die-the trib is right at the doors and you need to see the real damage this fantasy is going to bring.
Andrew, how can a cessationist “prophesy”? Anyone who claims to do so cannot possibly be a cessationist.
Some American Hmong people are the actors in the movie GRAN TORINO with Clint Eastwood. A great movie.
And yet he did, John.
From all that I have heard I believe he was very much against “tongues” and so-on.
Perhaps if he had been truly filled with the Holy Spirit, he would not have made such grievous errors as he did.
We will never know.
Lets try to think, like your the enemy for a minute..
You know when “you” the enemy Satan/Judas will unleash hell, knowing your time is short. You know the “elect” have been warned to flee, when they see the “abomination”spoken of by Daniel the prophet..Hmm what to do? I know!! False Flag!! before the “real” time. A cry wolf…and the next time “they will be still, like dumb sheep..
When is it? See Daniels Timeline Video..
3/22/13 mid week.. of 2010-2016. Adar the 10th
why do you think this is,…. Skull/Bone=666 english base 6 Gematria…..there number is “322″..
Sheep Asleep=666
In A Deep Sleep=666
A Quantum, AAA=666 (A=6)
Georgia Guide Stones=1200
A Extinction Event=1200
As Elites Hate Humans=1200
USA “IS” Second Babylon=1200
As Comet “Elenin” Passing=1200
Wise Men Fear The Lord=1200
English Base 6 Gematria “The Real Bible Code”
III – XXII- MMXIII=330 “this is the date 3-22-2013″
Satan=330
Judas=330
Barack’s=330
Beheading=330
Quake=330
Burn=330
Laser=330
December=330
As Eye=330
A Sun=330
IrIs=330
III XXII MMXIII, DATE=1110
SECRETS KEPT HIDDEN=1110
USA FALSE FLAG ATTACKS=1110
THE POWERS THAT BE=1110
WORLD TRADE CENTER=1110
AS WAR ON TERROR=1110
USA, HIGH WICKEDNESS=1110
AS BLOODY SACRIFICES=1110
MANY WON’T BELIEVE=1110
BEGINNING OF WISDOM=1110
JESUS IS WISDOM=1110
WISDOM IS MY NAME, AAA=1110 (A=6)
GET AAA UNDERSTANDING=1110
“Our belief systems must be
large enough to include all of the facts;
open enough to be tested;
and flexible enough to change
when we become aware of
errors or new facts.”
BHC’s Primary Guideline
http://biblicalheritage.org/
“Our belief systems must be
large enough to include all of the facts;
open enough to be tested;
and flexible enough to change
when we become aware of
errors or new facts.”
BHC’s Primary Guideline
My younger daughter was adopted from Vietnam and is of Hmong descent. They are an isoloated group of people, and I can easily see how they were deceived. This breaks my heart — and God’s, too.
Thank you for being there to help these precious people.
share Matthew 24 and the book of revelation with these saints and martyrs
How tragic beyond belief! I can’t help but think of & heed Paul’s words to Titus, chapter 2; words about how vital it is that believers be honorable & circumspect in the way in which we live our lives before men in order for the Lord’s name, and the Gospel, not be held up to ridicule & contempt.
The Harold Campings of the world give the entirety of Christianity a black eye. How utterly cruel that it – that he – has caused the death of so many humble people.