SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY- PART ONE- Full Version

Last week we published a brief video showing “Kundalini” spirits invading the church. The footage is truly shocking – but I believe important for people to see. This week we are putting out Part One of the Full Documentary on the same Topic (9 mins). It gives a much fuller picture of how this “invasion” of false spirits started – and the terrible impact that it’s had on the church worldwide. Here it is below-



Posted in TV & Videos by Andrew on July 8th, 2010 at 1:13 am.

86 comments

86 Replies

  1. David Larsen Jul 8th 2010

    The biggest part of the deception is that we have been lead to believe that what we are seeing is the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. In your film what you are showing are two groups of people who both believe they are right and know the way to God.
    The mistake most are making is that just because people read bibles all the time and say all the right scriptures they must be the right ones. WRONG! The deception lies in the fact that what you think of as church is not the church just something that looks like what you have been told it must be. The gates of Hell or the unseen will not now nor ever have prevaled against the true Church or those who have been called out of the world and made seperate unto God. It is even God himself who is allowing these things to happen so that true believers would seek the real and run from the false. This is just the start all that is false will get worse before men will cling to what is true. Most are not ready for the true they love thier lives in this world to much.

  2. ellen Jul 8th 2010

    Wow! Thank you Lord Jesus for protecting me during the years. I first was in a church that had just starting this “laughing in the spirit.” I was very uncomfortable with it and left shortly after. Few years later joined a very good spirit-filled church, and they too soon turned to this “drunkeness or laughter.” I was at a lady’s fellowship meeting and they laid hands on me and told me to start with “he he he.” I did but it severely bothered my conscience. Every lady in the place was sincerely affected except me. First I thought something was wrong with me spiritually and I was not laughing. Now I think God was just protecting me.

    Same thing with being slain in the spirit. Everyone would line up at the altar for prayer, hands were laid on these people and boom, everyone went down. Except for me. Time and time again I was not going down. I could feel them trying to push me down but I stood firm. Really weird. I think people need to be keen to the spirit or they will literally “fall for anything.”

  3. What I saw on this video is so true. I’m a deliverance and healing minister and I cannot tell you how many people I’ve dealt with when they have participated in these things.

    Some of the symptoms:

    Not able to stay awake in church
    Not able to read the word of God
    Have a band around their head
    Have times of confusion or cannot focus
    Sometimes throat problems
    Tormenting thoughts
    Tormented by sexual demons and so on and so forth

    Anyway, I remember I participated in this stuff and when I got delivered, it was like the room turned totally white and the person doing deliverance on me disappeared into the whiteness. It was an angel of light that left or spirit guide.

  4. The Lord is separating out His bride. This bride may not be who we have been religiously taught that the bride would be.

    This bride is those who accept the covering of the blood of the Passover Lamb Who was slain for their redemption/salvation; those who”love the Lord with all their spirit, soul and body, and who love their neighbour as they love themselves”. Those who have chosen life and blessing; those who do justice, are merciful and walk humbly before God.

  5. Hi

    This is such a hard one beacuse the devil is out to counterfit what God is doing, I no that there are some werid things going on in the church ( we need a correct interphertation of what exsaclly the church of Jesus is ) Just beacuse people sometimes fall over and shake dosnt mean that it is not of God there are scripures that can back this up where it gets messy is the extrems of madness brought into these meeitings through false profits and teachers ( we need to know who thses people are the bible says we will no them beacuse of there fruit) It a hard one beacuse we want a genuine revevial and the moving of the Holy spirit in our meeetings we cant put God in a box .

    God Bless Kevin

  6. anthony Jul 8th 2010

    “Things”,that is good things and not necessarily ordinary will take place when the Holy Spirit is operating.The key to sanity is in the hands of leaders.Obviously pantomime has overtaken “decently and in order.” in some circles but whether a Hindu spirit is in control is debatable.
    In my own denomination i have noticed a moving away from the falling over etc.When i pray for folk i ask them not to fall and find that it works.Weird should not be allowed.Leaders wake up and lead your congregations away from pantomime into Holy Spirit strength and stability.They deserve nothing less!

  7. Wayne Jul 8th 2010

    True discernment MUST be based on The Word of God..

    There are many books today that claim to be the Word of God. The Koran, the Islam holy book, claims to be the Word of God. The Book of Mormon claims to be the Word of God. The Hindus believe the Bhagavad Vita is the source of eternal truth. Karl Marx, with his atheistic world view, claimed his writing, The Communist Manifesto, was the ultimate truth. Hitler had his Mein Kampf read religiously and this contributed significantly to the fanaticism of Nazi Germany. A former Pastor of mine responsible for bringing Latter Rain and New Age heresies into the church my family grew up in even claimed that he did not “care about bible doctrine, I only care about my anointing.”

    We Christians, however, believe the Bible to be the Word of God and the eternal source of truth we live by. How do we know the Bible is the Word of God? Can we actually prove that the Bible is truly the Word of God? The answer is yes.

    Before I begin this discussion of the authority of the Bible, let me first quote the words of Jesus found in John 15:18. Jesus warns his disciples about the attitude the world will have toward those who follow Him.
    Jesus says, ‘If the world hates you, keep in mind it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own As it is you do not belong to the world. That is why the world hates you.
    1 Peter 5:8 states, “Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.”

    What is vital to understand from these passages is the attitude of the world toward God. The world is in rebellion against God, and worldly people under the influence of Satan seek to destroy your faith.

    In the light of the times we live in, it is important Christians not only know what they believe but also, why they believe what they believe.

    I once heard an astounding statistic. It indicated that 80 percent of the students who profess to be Christians leave for school and return home no longer believing in Christ. One of the reasons is this: when a student sits in class and hears the professor discredit the Bible, the student doesn’t have a defense and is easily deceived into believing the Bible is no longer credible. This happens too often because Christians know what they believe, but not why they believe it.

    In my experience, there is no book that is criticized and attacked more than the Bible. Many intelligent scholars have written books that attempt to discredit the authority of the Bible. This is one of Satan’s goals: to get man to doubt the Word of God.

    To counter this attack we will study some of the evidence in the case proving the authority and divine origin of the Bible. This knowledge will enable us to make a solid defense of the faith when we are attacked.

    There has not been in the history of man a book that has rocked the world as has the Bible. The impact it has made is phenomenal. Some hail the Bible as the Word of God; others criticize and condemn it. With the Bible facing such great opposition today, and with many other works claiming to be the “word of God,” how do we know the Bible is the true Word of God? Let us take a look at the evidence.

    Internal Evidence
    The evidence for the authority of the Bible falls into two major categories: internal evidence and external evidence. I mean by internal evidence, the evidence that is found within the Bible itself. By external evidence, I mean evidence that is found outside the Bible, such as archaeology, science, philosophy, and ancient manuscripts. Let us first consider the former, the internal evidences.
    Self-proclamation

    The first fact is that the Bible claims to be the Word of God. The authors knew they were writing the words of God, even though they often did not fully understand what they were writing. 2 Timothy 3:16 states, “All scripture is inspired by God.” 2 Peter 1:21 states, “No prophecy was ever made by an act of human will but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” Jesus himself viewed the Old Testament as authoritative and quoted from it throughout his ministry.

    Holy Spirit

    Second, the Holy Spirit confirms to us that the Bible is the Word of God. John 16:13 states, “But when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.” The Holy Spirit who convicts the world of sin also assures the believer that the Bible is God’s Word.

    Transforming Ability

    Third, we have evidence concerning the transforming ability of the Bible. Hebrews 4:12 says, “The word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit.” Romans 12:2 says, “And be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” The Word of God and the Spirit of God actually transforms the lives of people. The Bible has changed the lives of murderers, drug addicts, top government officials, business people, and students, to name just a few people from every walk of life who have been transformed by the Bible. No other book can make such a claim. This is because the Bible is not a mere book on good living but is literally packed with power. It is the Word of God with the power to change lives.

    These are only three internal evidences supporting the authority of the Bible. These of course are not the best arguments to use in a debate, but they are evidence. In the next section, we will study what I believe is the best internal argument.

    Unity

    We have studied three internal evidences that support the authority and divine inspiration of the Bible. In this section, we will study the fourth internal evidence: the unity of the Bible.

    The Bible covers hundreds of topics, yet it does not contradict itself. It remains united in its theme. “Well, what’s so amazing about that?” you may ask. Consider these facts. First, the Bible was written over a span of fifteen hundred years. Second, it was written by more than forty men from every walk of life. For example, Moses was educated in Egypt and became a prophet over Israel. Peter was a simple fisherman, Solomon was a king, Luke was a doctor, Amos was a shepherd, and Matthew was a tax collector. All the writers were of vastly different occupations and backgrounds.

    Third, it was written in many different places. The Bible was written on three different continents: Asia, Africa, and Europe. Moses wrote in the desert of Sinai, Paul wrote in a prison in Rome, Daniel wrote in exile in Babylon, and Ezra wrote in the ruined city of Jerusalem.

    Fourth, it was written under many different circumstances. David wrote during a time of war, Jeremiah wrote at the sorrowful time of Israel’s downfall, Peter wrote while Israel was under Roman domination, and Joshua wrote while invading the land of Canaan.

    Fifth, the writers had different purposes for writing. Isaiah wrote to warn Israel of God’s coming judgment on their sin, Matthew wrote to prove to the Jews that Jesus is the Messiah, Zechariah wrote to encourage a disheartened Israel who had returned from Babylonian exile, and Paul wrote addressing problems in different Asian and European churches.

    If we put all these factors together, the Bible was written over fifteen hundred years, by forty different authors, at different places, under various circumstances, and addressing a multitude of issues. It is amazing that with such diversity, there is such unity in the Bible. That unity is organized around one theme: God’s redemption of man and all of creation. Hundreds of controversial subjects are addressed and yet the writers do not contradict each other. The Bible is an incredible document.

    Let me offer you a good illustration from apologist Josh McDowell. Take ten contemporary authors and ask them to write their viewpoints on one controversial subject. Would they all agree? No, we would have disagreements from one author to another. Now look at the authorship of the Bible. All these authors, from a span of fifteen hundred years, wrote on many controversial subjects, and they do not contradict one another.(1)

    It seems one author guided these writers through the whole process: the Holy Spirit. 1 Peter 2:21 states, “No prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The unity of the Bible is just one more amazing proof of the divine inspiration and authority of the Bible.

    External Evidence
    In our study on the authority of the Bible, we have studied the internal evidences, which are found within the Bible itself. Except for the unity of the Bible, most of these arguments are subjective in nature. Now we will study the external evidences of the Bible, that is, evidences found outside the Bible.
    Indestructibility

    The first external evidence is the indestructibility of the Bible. The Bible is the most well-known book in the history of the world, and no book has been attacked more than it. Skeptics have tried to destroy the authority of the Bible for the last eighteen hundred years. It has undergone every kind of scrutiny possible from archaeology, science, philosophy, and computers. Yet, despite all these attacks, the Bible proves itself to be true again and again. Each time the skeptics have been wrong, and the Bible has proven itself true. Just the fact that the Bible has remained steadfast in its authority after two thousand years is another piece of evidence supporting its divine origin.

    Archaeology

    The second source of external evidence comes from archaeology. Middle Eastern archaeological investigations have proven the Bible to be true and unerringly accurate in its historical descriptions. Nelson Glueck, a renowned Jewish archaeologist, states, “No archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference.”(2)

    Dr. William Albright, who was not a friend of Christianity and was probably the foremost authority in Middle East archaeology in his time, said this about the Bible: “There can be no doubt that archaeology has confirmed the substantial historicity of the Old Testament.”(3)

    Here are a couple of examples of the historical accuracy of the Bible. A good example is found in Genesis 14. The Bible speaks of Abraham’s victory over Chedorlaomer and five Mesopotamian kings. For years, the critics stated that these accounts were fictitious and many people discredited the Bible. In the 1960s, however, the Ebla tablets were discovered in northern Syria. The Ebla kingdom was a powerful kingdom in the twentieth century B.C. The Ebla tablets are records of its history. Thousands of tablets have been discovered. What is important is that many of these tablets make a reference to all five cities of the plain proving the Genesis 14 account to be accurate.(4)

    Another example is the story of Jericho recorded in the book of Joshua. For years skeptics thought the story of the falling walls of Jericho was a myth. However, in the 1930s, Dr. John Garstang made a remarkable discovery. He states, “As to the main fact, then, there remains no doubt: the walls fell outwards so completely, the attackers would be able to clamber up and over the ruins of the city.” This is remarkable because city walls fall inward, not outward.(5)

    The March 5, 1990 issue of Time magazine featured an article called, “Score One For the Bible.” In it, archaeologist Kathleen Kenyon claimed Jericho’s walls had fallen suddenly. Many scholars feel this was caused by an earthquake which may also explain the damming of the Jordan. Additionally, grain was discovered, which shows the city was conquered quickly. This find adds credence to the biblical account. Further study by Brian Wood found the date of the fall of Jericho to match the Bible’s date.(6)

    Here are just two great examples of archaeology authenticating the historical reliability of the Bible. No book is as ancient, and at the same time, as convincingly accurate as the Bible.

    Indestructibility and archaeology are two external evidences for the Bible.

    Prophecy

    There are many more external evidences for the Bible, but I’ll just cover one more: evidence from prophecy. The Bible contains hundreds of prophecies which have come to pass. No book in history has ever come close to the Bible when it comes to fulfillment of prophecy.

    The prophecies in the Bible are very specific and accurate. Nostradamus claims to have made hundreds of prophecies that have come true, but if you read his prophecies, you will find them to be vague and unclear. His symbols and language can be taken to mean a number of historical events. Unlike many such prophecies, biblical prophecy is very specific.

    Here are some examples. In Ezekiel 26, which was written in 587 B.C., Ezekiel prophesies that the mighty city of Tyre would be destroyed. Tyre was made up of two parts, a mainland port city and an island city half a mile off shore. Ezekiel predicted mainland Tyre would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, many nations would fight against her, the debris of the city would be thrown into the ocean, the city would never be found again, and fishermen would come there to lay their nets.

    In 573 B.C., Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the mainland city of Tyre. Many of the refugees of the city sailed to the island and the island city of Tyre remained a powerful city. In 333 B.C., however, Alexander the Great laid siege to Tyre. Using the rubble of mainland Tyre, he built a causeway to the island city of Tyre. He then captured and completely destroyed the city.

    Today, Tyre is a small fishing town where fishing boats come to rest and fisherman spread their nets. The great ancient city of Tyre to this day lies buried in ruins exactly as prophesied. If we were to calculate the odds of this event happening by chance, the figures would be astronomical. No, it was not by coincidence.(7)

    Here’s another example. There are over three hundred prophecies made of Jesus in the Old Testament. Prophecies such as His place of birth, how he would die, His rejection by the nation of Israel, and so on. All these prophecies were made hundreds of years before Jesus ever came to earth. Because of the accuracy of the prophecies, many skeptics have believed that they must have been written after 70 A.D.–after the birth and death of Jesus, and the destruction of Jerusalem. They have thereby tried to deny that they are even prophecies.

    However, in 1947, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered. These scrolls contained the book of Isaiah and other prophetic books. When dated, they were found to be written from 120 to 100 B.C.,(8) well before Jesus was born. It would have been an incredible accomplishment for Jesus to have fulfilled all three hundred prophecies. Some say these prophecies were fulfilled by chance, but the odds for this would be exceptionally large. It would take more faith to believe in that chance happening than in the fact that Jesus is God and these prophecies are divinely inspired.(9)

    No book can match the Bible when it comes to prophecy. Understand that I have only touched the tip of the iceberg. There are hundreds of additional proofs for the Bible, yet I have only mentioned a few. I hope this study has aroused your interest to further study the Word of God.

  8. David Larsen Jul 8th 2010

    Acts 2:13
    Others mocking said These are full of new wine.
    14: But Peter standing up with the eleven lifted up his voice and said unto to them. Ye men of Judea and all you that dwell at Jerusalem be this know unto to you, and harken to my words.
    15: For these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
    I put this here with the above post of my to show why it can be a bad idea to try to seperate the wheat and what the enemy has sown. Because while there is much that is false in the video there is also much that is real. I attended Rhema bible school more then 20 years ago and ment many of those that have been brought into question . At the time Kenneth Hagin Senior was alive and i myself have ment him. While i do not agree with alot that was said way back then i never had any doubt then or now if He was for real same with Ken Copeland whos meetings i have attended more then once many years ago. As in all or most strains of what we call church there is some real some false not one or any have all the truth that is what seperates them. The danger comes when they have doctrines that we dont like so we condem the whole thing and un knowly begin to speak against the moving of the holy spirit. Some of these people are for real and some of the laughter and looking like they are drunk are for real. Go back and read from the book of acts and tell peter no problem pete what really happened to you guys was kunduli. We might want to take our shoes off and walk more softly. The point i am trying to make is while i no longer watch Ken Copeland or read Ken Haggin i have been in meetings with them and present at some of the times when there was laughter and can tell you 100% it was from God. I have also seen the false and can tell you that some times the 2 can almost seem to overlap. All these things are changing and church as most knows it will no longer be and it will be done by the hand of God. God himself said let both grow togeather He would send angles or messangers to bring the seperation that is what is starting even now. a question we might all ask ourselves is our we a sheep or a goat time is short. Excuse the grammer or spelling. Thanks you

  9. watchful Jul 8th 2010

    After being a part of the “renewal” movement for about three years, at one particular church until about 9 or 10 years ago, I have given this subject a lot of prayerful thought, along with the benefit of hindsight, and have come to the conclusion (so far) that a lot of what I saw and participated in was a mixture. When I look at the Kundalini manifestations, they are similar to the manifestions that I saw at my church, but not exactly. I can see that these ones are demonic, and there is a difference between these and the manifestations that I mainly saw at this church (can’t speak for other churches or conferences in this movement, just the one I attended, also there may have been occasional, isolated demonic manifestations.) I agree that the enemy counterfeits the genuine things of God, and that discernment is certainly needed.

    The biggest problem looking back, I believe was not so much the manifestations themselves in the beginning but that the manifestations were paid too much attention to and actually became deliberately sought after. This was idolatry plain and simple, and of course idolatry opens doors to the enemy. I also am convinced that one main reason this happened was because of carnality and lack of maturity in the believers and leaders at this church due to a lack of the cross. The biggest issue to me was the idolatry and not the manifesations themselves. If there had been none of this idolatry going on, the manifestations might not have become so big a part of this movement.

    I’m a little concerned about the possibility of quenching the spirit of God, or that people might judge someone who is manifesting a demonic spirit – often when a demon manifests, the Spirit of God has flushed it to the surface and it’s the opportune moment to just cast it out. Sometimes the demons are just manifesting while they are in the process of leaving because of the presence of God in the atmosphere or in another person. I’m no expert on the subject, but I have seen this happen in some circumstances. I’m just a little worried people might quench this activity of the Holy Spirit and just want to add this note of caution, not that I disagree with the fact of the Kundalini manifestations, but just more concerned about how people might react to this information so I just wanted to try and balance it out.

    I also should mention that when I first began to attend this church, there was a tangible presence of God in the atmosphere – and just as described in the bible, it was heavy, weighty and very lovely – I could almost rest my head on it. However as the idolatry progressed, this wonderful Presence left to my absolute dismay. This also leads me to believe that it was in the beginning a genuine move of God. If it was a demonic presence it would not have left because of the idolatry, if anything I think it would have increased. Anyway those are just my thoughts on this topic at present, not carved in stone by any means.

  10. David Larsen,

    “At the time Kenneth Hagin Senior was alive and i myself have ment him. While i do not agree with alot that was said way back then i never had any doubt then or now if He was for real same with Ken Copeland whos meetings i have attended more then once many years ago.”

    Unfortunately David Larsen, you are WAY, WAY, WAY off in your discernment, as neither Kenneth Hagin nor Ken Copeland is “of” the Lord. In fact they are SNAKES, as evidenced by this and several other videos. They are mocking the Lord Jesus Christ in these videos.

    Kenneth Copeland is a mason as are MANY of these snakey individuals, and the mason’s “god” is NOT the same MOST HIGH GOD, JESUS CHRIST. “THEIR” ‘god” MOCKS the true Christian’s Almighty God.

    Their fruit is ROTTEN!

    The Holy Spirit of God DOES NOT make indivduals do the things that these MOCKING “ministers” are doing, and have done, in these videos and in several other ones as well. Not ONLY are they partaking of this evil, but they are ENDORSING it as well. A far greater sentence will be passed upon these indivduals, who stand in mockery of God, by posing as His “servants!

    In fact, these same individuals are RESPONCIBLE for poisioning the church and the sheep with their heretical, evil and abominable practices that promote GREED and all kinds of false and evil doctrine. They have POLLUTED God’s sanctuary and this is what His judgment is coming for! WOE, WOE, WOE TO THEM!

    You might want to do a little homework about their background.

  11. David Larsen wrote:

    “Because while there is much that is false in the video there is also much that is real.”

    David Larsen, there is NOTHING in this video that is real. NOTHING. NADA.

    It is ALL DUNG and Father God DESPISES IT!

  12. Byron from okla Jul 8th 2010

    Andrew, when I read Watchman Nee’s book the latent power of the soul it explained to me personally how to invasion was able to take place…(paraphrase of what was in the book) it seems when people would operate in soul power or physic energy(witchcraft) and use mental projection or what ever it actually looks like it came from the person themselves with some possible help from demons who would stay in the back ground or away so as not to be detected. Jesus could read thoughts of people and I think to some extent people can pick on whats going on themselves and then go into deception.
    for example when the Apostle Paul was on the ship and he perceived there would be death. then later an angel told him no one would die…I am not saying Paul was operating in witchcraft some people can perceive things and not be demonic but later on can have an open door if people give heed to a spirit if their gift is not submitted to the Holy Spirit.

  13. David Larsen Jul 9th 2010

    Heidi
    If i were you i would find some one else to dispute this with.
    If you have some problem with these men take it up with them.
    I have done far more then you on the subject . As far as Kenneth Hagain senior i use to sit through his class many years ago and knew his ministry on a personal level. I Lived in broken arrow OK
    and attened his bible school and while i am not in agreament with much of thier doctrine you or any one else trying to tell me that you dont even think they are saved i would caution you that you are the one on dangerous ground as they are not your servents they are Gods.

  14. AnDy777 Jul 9th 2010

    watched the video. how does this tie in with being drunk in the spirit it it does at all or laughter for that matter in Jeremiah 23 9 it says:-

    Concerning the prophets: My heart is broken within me; all my bones tremble. I am like a drunken man, like a man overcome by wine, because of the LORD and his holy words.

    Also on the day of pentecost believers got accused of being drunk.

    just wanting to know if how the above fits in with the film.

    TIA

  15. David Larsen Jul 9th 2010

    Heidi
    One other thing i forgive you there is no reason for you to make a personal attack on me because you think you have a corner on the truth. In the future why dont you just state your thought with out trying to belittle some one else because what they say does not agree with your thought. I do not suppose the thought ever entered your mind that you could be wrong? Oh well I love you sister and forgive you. As much as i do not like what is going on in most churches to say certain people are not even saved because they dont act the way i think they should would be a very big mistake. This is Gods church not yours or mine nor any one on this forum. The staments you have made are the same kinda of things that nailed Jesus to the cross and they thought they were right to. Jesus said Father forgive them they do not know what they are doing. And so i forgive you for the same reason.

  16. David Larsen, I am not attacking you personally. However, I am disputing what you have written.

    But I do MOST DEFINELY DISAGREE with your UNIVERSALIST doctrines that you have tried to push on to me and other individuals on this forum, which is a VIOLATION of the forum rules.

    BUYER BEWARE.

    But besides that,

    I call it as the Lord sees it. Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland teach doctrines of demons.

    You will know them by their FRUIT.

    Of their false prosperity doctrines and other false doctrines they promote:

    Is it GOOD fruit or is it ROTTEN fruit that they have produced?

    ROTTEN TREES produce ROTTEN FRUIT.

    GOOD TREES produce GOOD FRUIT.

    Enough said.

  17. To Heidi: Remember John 3:17. If it wasn’t your Saviour’s job/duty/calling/mission to condemn mankind, why is it yours? Stop it.

  18. Seraphah Jul 9th 2010

    I believe in faith, the power of confession and the spoken word, but the extreme of the ‘name it and claim it’ people is just plain wrong. The Prosperity Gospel of which Hagin and Copeland are a part is a heresy and always has been. How do you reconcile their claims to the deaths of the Christian Martyrs? Are they somehow superior the those who came before?? Hardly. They are deceivers, and are being deceived, carried away by their own lusts.

    I also believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. Yet, these manifestations are TOTALLY contrary to how the Holy Spirit moves. I have seen weeping and laughter, shaking and deliverance many times. Never did God take people’s control away.

    Shaking under conviction or the weight of glory is, indeed the ‘trembling’ mentioned in Scripture, not the spasmodic jerking we see in this video. The ONLY times I have seen such jerking and uncontrollable actions from people was in the demonized while casting out those demons.

    Show me ONE TIME where anyone in Scripture fell down and jerked or made animal noises. Those who ‘fell down’ were ‘as dead’ – dead people don’t jerk or make animal noises.

    There are those who try to use the mockery of the unbelievers at Pentecost – saying the disciples were drunk – as justification for the drunken manifestations. First, it was them all talking at once in so many languages while praising God that the watchers were commenting on – not them staggering around and acting intoxicated. Second, Peter did not agree with the idea that the disciples were acting drunken – he corrected their slander. NEVER does the Scripture make any comparison between the Holy Spirit falling and drunkenness.

    God can, indeed, do whatever He pleases. However, God will not act in a way that is not in His holy character. Drunkenness, lack of self-control and making animal noises is NOT a fruit of the spirit.

    Galatians 5:19-25
    Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,
    drunkenness,
    revelries,
    and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

    And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

  19. Andrew Jul 9th 2010

    I agree with Heidi that these Word of Faith teachers have introduced grave heresy into the Body.
    The Bible COMMANDS us to expose this if it happens.

    I also believe their “drunkenness” was completely “off” and not of God.

    -Andrew

  20. Seraphah Jul 9th 2010

    @Moll – Jesus did not hesitate to point out the errors of the teachers of the law and the Pharisees. We are TOLD to judge those who come among us claiming to be brethren, whether they are in the faith or teaching heresy. Heidi did not condemn David Larsen, she condemned his teachings – and she was correct.

    Jude 3-4
    Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

    For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: …

    2 Timothy 4:1-5
    I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

    But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

  21. Seraphah writes “We are TOLD to judge those who come among us claiming to be brethren, whether they are in the faith or teaching heresy” citing Paul’s letter to Timothy. Paul, a very flawed human.

    We are told by our Lord, in His sermon on the mount, “Do’t pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults — unless, of course, you want the same treatment. That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging. It’s easy to see a smudge on your neighbor’s face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, ‘Let me wash your face for you,’ when your own face is distorted by contempt” (Matthew 7:1&2, Peterson’s The Message)?

  22. sheepkinz Jul 9th 2010

    I also agree with Heidi and Andrew, to stick up for the preachers who are leading many astray is also being led astray right along with them. To NOT speak out against the false/apostasy and tell people to be quiet and to stop is even worse. The Lord exposes the hidden and the darkness, but theirs is made plain to those with eyes to see and ears to hear. Praise God and I seriously mean that Praise GOD, their are voices speaking TRUTH and exposing the demon doctrines.
    To say any part of that video was of God , is blindness!

  23. Sarah Jul 9th 2010

    The central issue of this video is that false spirits have invaded the church. It’s not a matter of whether certain people were ever saved or genuine, but many Christians seem to have come under spiritual bondage because of infiltration from the enemy, and they need to know the truth and be set free. We all have to be careful not to be deceived, not to be ignorant of the devil’s devices, but to hold onto the truth and walk in the love of God at the same time.

    I’ve seen both real stuff and counterfeit stuff, even experienced a lot of it myself and had to sort it out later, when things came to light with God’s word and the Holy Spirit. There is both real and counterfeit stuff going on in the churches today, and some of us are called to teach or preach about the difference.

  24. Thank you for this warning, Andrew. This is such a clear message!
    Could you perhaps talk about how people, who have participated in such meetings, and who want to “come clean” should deal with their past.

    To all those who think that SOME of the stuff is from the Holy Spirit…

    Is there really such a thing as a half-truth? I think not. It’s either truth or lie!

    Can you really picture the Holy Spirit dealing with a person in a church meeting while the person next to him is moved by a demonic spirit?

    The Holy Spirit next to a demon while sharing a crowd ? This one’s mine, that one is yours…. I think not!

    Blessings, and All 4 Jesus!
    Mario

  25. Wayne Jul 9th 2010

    Well DONE Heidi. May the Lord richly bless you in your stand for righteousness, I am so pleased to see Andrew Strom exposing the religious filth that has permeated so much of what might “very loosely” be referred to as the Church. Hopefully it is NOT too late for some.

    ONLY THE JESUS CHRIST OF THE BIBLE WILL SAVE US FROM THE DELUDED RELIGIOUS NONSENSE OF THE UNBIBLICAL/ANTIBIBLICAL?SUPERBIBLICAL. THE WHOLE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN TO WARN US ABOUT THESE PEOPLE. THOSE OF US WHO WILL BE SAVED MUST RESIST THEIR FALSE TEACHING AND VAIN IMAGINATIONS WITH EVERY OUNCE OF SPIRITUAL VITALITY WE HAVE>

  26. Wayne Jul 9th 2010

    “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
    sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)

    My only hope is that some will wake up and come out of these Latter Rain revivals. There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
    leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
    Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.

    It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have
    clearly been warned that it would come. It is still a little frightening that so many of God’s people today
    could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.

    “You shall be as gods.” The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
    Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army”
    are putting forth today. You will become Christ – God on this earth. The heresy of Apotheosis. And yet
    thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.

    The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion. Like those foolish virgins of the
    parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is
    instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits. This counterfeit anointing comes with a
    counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ. They
    will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
    “rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.

    What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
    Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
    from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.

    If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back
    to the Bible. Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures.
    “Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
    or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
    don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.” I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have
    family and close personal friends there. But if they will not hear you – leave them behind.

    The Latter Rain prophets are right about one thing – doctrine divides. Truth separates the wheat from
    the chaff. In the early Church the Apostles kept the deceivers and false apostles out. They did this by
    publicly identifying the heretics and warning the sheep of their false doctrines. Because of the diligence of
    the true apostles of our Lord, the false apostles and their followers were forced to leave the Church. The
    Apostle John writes:

    “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many
    antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not
    of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might
    be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)

    Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in
    many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their
    false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from

  27. Wayne Jul 9th 2010

    Unfortunately, we can expect this apostasy to continue to spread and grow worse until the Lord
    returns. The spirit of Anti-Christ is growing increasingly more powerful and seductive and more and more
    churches are falling under its ecumenical Latter Rain spell. As the “revivals” continue to spread there is
    going to be increasing pressure upon those of us who continue to stubbornly stand against them. As lying
    signs and wonders grow more and more powerful and as the claimed “salvations” increase they will put
    more pressure upon us to “jump into the river”, accusing us of being “Pharisees with a religious Spirit” or
    worse – “Anti-Christ”, if we continue to reject what they consider to be so great a move of God. “Look at
    the sinners being saved! The lives changed! The fruit! The miracles, signs and wonders! How can you
    continue to stand against this mighty move of God?” In what I am afraid is a sign of things to come, a Charisma article tells of a local pastor who gave in to the pressure to embrace this counterfeit revival
    as the real thing:

    One local minister accused the leader of a Latter Rain church of being a cult leader and labeled the church a cult.
    He later apologized, “There has been too many converts for me to deny any longer this is a
    move of God,” the minister said.

    The Gnostic heretics of the first century gained many converts. So did the later Arian heretics. Did
    this make their rising up within the midst of the church “moves of God”? No! The Holy Spirit is still the
    Spirit of truth. Until our Lord returns, and we rise up to meet Him in the clouds at the rapture – let us
    remember His admonition to the faithful Philadelphian Church:

    “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall
    come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast
    what you have, that no one may take your crown.” (Rev 3:10,11 NKJV)

    GOD IS TESTING FAITHFULNESS TO HIS WORD!!!!!

    Remember – “He who endures to the end shall be saved.”

    “Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.”

  28. sheepkinz Jul 9th 2010

    I feel the Lord has been strongly pressing upon me and Ive tried to be quiet , yet still the Lord pressing upon me, concerning David. L. as
    I went to bed last night and woke up with this yet this morning. I read some of your emails from you to another, sent to a certain married female and I also know you have made contact through Andrews website to get a hold of other people. I do not have your website or email, BUT people should be Warned and very much Aware of what your doing David L. You have been telling people to call you , you need to talk to them by phone, in almost a demanding way and share your beliefs and teachings. Every time I would read the words, ” you wrote,”call me” I felt in my spirit it was an open door for something not good and not of the Lord to come through. As I read your emails this person was truly concerned and Rightly so. You badgered this female, so Im concerned how many more women and even men you have told they were also disobedient for NOT listening to you and not calling you. They were Discerning Correctly.

    It is manipulating and you are in error, telling people the Lord is sending others to them because they wont listen to you. It is you who are in error and what you have been sharing in emails is not truth, nor is it of GOD.
    I pray that the Lord would open your eyes to HIS truth, and your ears to hear, REPENT and turn away from the false while it is still TODAY! It is about a people choosing sides, you are right about that part….but not in the way you perceive it to be by the natural man. Its the Spirit of Truth speaking against the lies and deception that as Wayne shared above and as the video Andrew has placed, depicts are leading many on the broad road. Their still is time TODAY to turn away from and come out from among the lies.
    I speak this in sincerity, truth and in love to you and to anyone else who is concerned about what has been going on or who has been truly harassed in the same way.

  29. David Larsen Jul 9th 2010

    Sheepkinz
    I forgive you to for spreading false things about myself. You are the one who needs to repent about what you have said.
    I have not demanded that any one call me. I have only said that it is easier to talk with someone on the phone as much can get lost through writing. Paul and John said the same in many epistles they would rather speak in person they write what they had to say in a letter. Many still are making the same mistake and not really knowing what is said having their own slant on scripture. If Heidi choose to share with you what i have written that is fine with me i have nothing to hide she could put it on the web for all to read and i would not care. My wife is well aware of it and so are many others in the body of Christ as i have made them aware because i knew that these things would all come out in the open. In the end what many will find that many here are guilty of the same things as they accuse others of they just have not grown up. They like children fight and condem one another because they dont do things the way they think they should.
    I have watched the videos in question and while there is stuff that is clearly of the devil to say that our brothers and sisters are not of God or even saved because of what we see on some video that we have already been told is all bad heaven help any one who disagrees. Heidi has problems with myself and they go way deeper then what has been said here and she is the one who brought this out and others have jumped on the lets kill Dave band wagon with out all the facts. Many of you are going to come into jugdment but not for what is on this video. It will just be for the fact that you are children and refuse to grow up and be adults in the kingdom knowing the diffrence between what it good and what is evil. Children attack one another over all kinda phoney lies because what they believe to be truth is only thier brand of truth which is not truth at all. I am not make personal attacks on any here for the simple fact that i know God is drawing all men to himself and all means all those on this forum.
    It is not for me to say who is and who isnt only are Father knows who are His and in this hour many of you are going to be suprised whom He has choosen to bring in the kingdom.
    Oh and something else i have no web site and never will.

  30. sheepkinz Jul 9th 2010

    David, nobody said, the people were not of God, but the spirit that is upon them is most assuredly, and without question… another AT WORK, and in operation!!! THIS IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT UPON THESE PEOPLE!!!!

  31. David Larsen Jul 9th 2010

    Something else i have given my phone number to Andrew and told him he is welcome to call any time. I have also talked to Jeri Woods who called me through this web site and we talked for three hours and i enjoyed that very much. I believ she is a friend of Andrews or at least he has posted some of her stuff on this site.
    To say that my intentions are less then honest is not honest. Any one who wants to call or email me is fine with me and if they dont that is fine to. And if you dont agree with what i have posted i still love you and guess what i do not have a corner on all the truth but i know who does and i would hope all of us are growing to the point we all would stop attacking those who dont see it like us. Lets not kill Christ all over again by killing each other.

  32. Wayne Jul 9th 2010

    Well done Sheepkinz, there is a very disturbing attack on the Word of God on this website that really belongs in these apostate Latter Rain churces we are referring to rather than on a blog site where people obviously know and love the only true God the God of The Bible.

    What is this NONSENSE with David Larsen and his peculiar views.
    Whatever religion you are peddling David is certainly NOT christian and should NOT be misrepresented as such. There are plenty of apostate churches around that should be open to your nonsense. Take your religion to them.

    Only Jesus Christ should have our attention and the ONLY way to know HIM is through HIS Word.

    People peddling anti-scripture sentiments are contributing to the nonsense that is invading the church and need to be treated accordingly.

  33. Wayne Jul 9th 2010

    “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall
    come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast
    what you have, that no one may take your crown.” (Rev 3:10,11 NKJV)

    GOD IS TESTING FAITHFULNESS TO HIS WORD!!!!!

    Remember – “He who endures to the end shall be saved.”

    “Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.”

  34. David Larsen Jul 9th 2010

    Wayne
    I love you and forgive you because you do not know what you are doing. You will very soon though by judging the blessing of judgment will come to you. Gods judgment is good and for correction i hope you will recieve it as from His hand.

  35. David Larsen Jul 9th 2010

    Psalm 109
    Hold not thy peace O God of my praise.
    For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me, they have spoken against me with a lying tounge.
    They compassed me about also with words of hatred and fought against me without a cause.
    For my love they are my adversaries but i give myself to prayer.
    And they have rewarded evil for good and hatered for my love.
    Set thou a wicked man over him and let satan stand at his right hand.
    It would seem that another David had the same sort of problems
    I wll let the scripture speak for it self for all who are so quick to judge.

  36. sheepkinz Jul 9th 2010

    What does the Lord do when He is exposing? He turns up the heat and all the junk and icky stuff comes to the surface. It cannot lay dormant for the Lord is the one whom causes the hidden to come into His Light, the Light of His truth.

    Last night07/09/2010 I was brought forth a vision 2 times.
    I forgot about it this morning as
    we care for my brother , whom is a wounded soldier. On the hour drive back from the V.A. hospital, the Lord began to minister forth unto me, of the vision.

    I saw an ocean and of waves come before me. Their were waves upon waves upon the ocean. Rough waters.
    As I continued to watch I saw large boulders, STONES everywhere in the ocean. They did not move with the water. I than saw many , many small boats each carrying one person. One boat would hit the Large stone and the small boat would capsize. another boat hit the stone and was broken into pieces and the individuals were than tossed into the waves right along with their boats… there were boats everywhere I looked and Large stones placed before each boat, the waves through them up against the Stones.

    On the drive home the Lord spoke to me of the vision and revealed to me by the Spirit that the boats were man made, self made. Many are striving to save themselves in their own efforts. those whom believe in God shall be saved, those whom reject Him ., He is Sovereign God and He is the Stumbling Stone being placed before those which are rejecting HIM.

    The ocean is..this is —–> concerning ALL peoples far and wide, the nations . man cannot save Himself only Jesus!!!! You cannot strive to enter in any other way but through Jesus Christ!!!!

    1 Peter 2:
    6For this is contained in Scripture:
    “BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,
    AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

    7This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
    “THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
    THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,”

    8and,
    “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”;
    for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.

    and again it is written:

    Romans 9
    28FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD ON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY.”

    29And just as Isaiah foretold,
    “UNLESS THE LORD OF SABAOTH HAD LEFT TO US A POSTERITY,
    WE WOULD HAVE BECOME LIKE SODOM, AND WOULD HAVE RESEMBLED GOMORRAH.”

    30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

    33just as it is written,
    “BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
    AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

    Romans 10:4
    1Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

  37. David Larsen wrote:
    ” Heidi has problems with myself and they go way deeper then what has been said here and she is the one who brought this out and others have jumped on the lets kill Dave band wagon with out all the facts.”

    David, whatever you are alluding to I have no idea, but I most definitely DO HAVE A PROBLEM with your “Universalist” “Dominionist” teachings that say there is no hell judgment for the wicked and everyone goes to heaven and that Christ Jesus is not coming back to the earth HIMSELF. And many other heretical things you espouse.

    Because you are promoting HERESY and LIES and UNSCRIPTURAL DOCTRINE.

    That is EVIL and WRONG.

    And I DO have a problem with your manipulative underhanded tactics of trying to paint yourself on the forum as the victim, because CLEARLY YOU are the PERPETRATOR.

    As sheepkinz has written, you need to REPENT! And REPENT NOW! For your SOUL’S SAKE of embracing this heretical teaching and then forcefully trying to promote it to others!

    And as for the videos, your BLINDNESS has blinded you to “seeing” the EVIL that these men featured in the videos, has done to the church by misrepresenting HIM AND HIS HOLY NAME!

  38. Wayne wrote:

    “GOD IS TESTING FAITHFULNESS TO HIS WORD!!!!!

    Remember – “He who endures to the end shall be saved.””

    Amen Wayne, yes He is! Good admonishment!

  39. David Larsen Jul 9th 2010

    This is so funny are those here who think that i am the devil being lead by the same spirit that tells you all things. If it is it is defently not the Spirit of God. I for give you all and love you and i am not a victum nor do i pretend to be. Those who are making the false statments are the ones in need of help. The voice you are listening to is not the voice of God and you think it is. That is the problem you have the same spirit as those you accuse and point the finger at so as to make your selves look holy or to appear as an angle of light. I am not mad at any of you and thank God for all the wonderful things that you have to say about me. You know what is really funny is that almost all here think just like the hagins and the copelands except for the fact that they are more carfull about what they say about others in the body of Christ

  40. My God-fearing, out-of-town friend, the driver, and I attended a Toronto Blessings session.

    After a lot of “mantra” singing, and some passionate, nondescript teaching, things began to happen. People were barking like dogs, braying like donkeys, crowing like roosters, laughing like maniacs without end; they were lying up front, slain in the spirit; dancing like they would never run out of energy. There was foot stomping and pounding of the banisters from the upper gallery. My friend laid, slain in the spirit, for hours. Other’s were “knocked” over into a sitting position.

    For most of this time, I was standing. I could feel wind whistling up and down the pews behind me and in front of me. The hackles at the base of my neck were standing on end.

    I kept asking my Heavenly Father that, if this was from Him, I wanted some of this. I didn’t fall, I didn’t bark, I didn’t bray, I didn’t crow, I didn’t dance, I didn’t laugh, I felt the rushing of wind, but I knew it was not the ruach ha’kodesh — the Holy Spirit of our God.

    People asked me why I was still there. I would point to my friend lying up front, and would say, “my driver is over there”.

    There were people so agitated, and weeping, that sometimes I went over to sit with them, quietly praying, asking God what I should do here. He would direct the thoughts of my mind, and the words of my mouth. What was said was timely, and effective. But NOTHING happened. No external force pushed my spirit, the dwelling place of my Lord, around. I thank Him for this.

    Again, I say, God is Omnipotent. He is in charge of all things. The response required of me is to be wilfully, voluntarily obedient to what He has asked of me. And, what He has asked of me is not necessarily the same as He is asking of you!

    What we know, is each one’s faith-journey is unique — designed by God to bring about the fruit of the spirit (Gal.5:22) shaping our natural man into a spiritual being. What we know, too, is that the end result will be that we reflect more and more our Redeemer/Saviour — spirit, soul (mind/will/emotion) and body.

    We often sing, “Oh to be like Thee, Oh, to be like Thee; Precious Redeemer, pure as Thou art….” That is the cry of our yearning spirits.

  41. Andrew Jul 9th 2010

    Can this thread return to Topic, please?

    -Andrew.

  42. sheepkinz Jul 9th 2010

    Moll said,
    My friend laid, slain in the spirit, for hours. Other’s were “knocked” over into a sitting position.
    end quote:

    Would you show me where in scripture above, “slain in the spirit,” is biblically and also what you believe this to mean?

  43. Sheepkinz wrote:

    “Would you show me where in scripture above, “slain in the spirit,” is biblically and also what you believe this to mean?”

    What I have noticed in studying the scriptures is no where is found people being “slain” or “falling backward” by being pushed or just falling bakwards through the power of “suggestion”.

    In the scriptures, when people were overcome by the manifest presence of the Spirit of God, they usually fell to their knees, or fell on their faces, or they trembled due to holiness of the presence of God in their midst.

    Weakness overcame them, but they DID NOT violently shake like a spinning top or jerk around spastically like someone was yanking or pulling their arms or legs.

    This is likely due to a demonic manifestation and NOT the Holy Spirit of God.

  44. Seraphah Jul 10th 2010

    >>Moll writes:
    Seraphah writes “We are TOLD to judge those who come among us claiming to be brethren, whether they are in the faith or teaching heresy” citing Paul’s letter to Timothy. Paul, a very flawed human.

    We are told by our Lord, in His sermon on the mount, “Do’t pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults — unless, of course, you want the same treatment. That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging. It’s easy to see a smudge on your neighbor’s face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, ‘Let me wash your face for you,’ when your own face is distorted by contempt” (Matthew 7:1&2, Peterson’s The Message)?<<

    That Paul was human does not negate his words or lessen their power as a command from God. Nor does it negate the clear command of Scripture that we judge those within the church – for if we do not, how are we to discern the heretic, false brethren and false tacher? Or do you also contend that the Scripture is flawed?

    Once again, Heidi did NOT judge David Larsen, she judged his teaching and she was correct and right to do so. If David Larsen is teaching / believing heresy then he is condemned already by God, there is no need or call for anyone to pronounce him so.

    I utterly reject the supposed 'translation' of "The Message". It is NOT a translation, but a paraphrase and it NOT true to the original text – it is Peterson's flawed human interpretation.

    What Jesus actually said was this:"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

    By simple reading of the text, it is clear that Jesus is NOT saying that you cannot judge. In fact, just the opposite is true – Jesus says "FIRST remove the plank from your own eye, and THEN you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." You are to judge yourself before you judge others, because your own sins can affect your judgement of other's sins – and if you judge your brother for a sin you are also guilty of, you are, in effect, accepting whatever punishment you deemed justified for your brother's sin. For further exploration of this concept, see Rom 2:1-1.

    For the record – I do believe that God can and does reach people and teach them without the benefit of the written Scripture. I also acknowledge that men can and do twist and misinterpret the Scriptures – as Scripture itself also acknowledges (2 Peter 3:13-18). That does NOT, however, allow us to ignore the written WORD or set it aside when it does not fit with our chosen theology.

  45. Seraphah Jul 10th 2010

    Written by David Larsen Jul 9th 2010
    >>Wayne
    I love you and forgive you because you do not know what you are doing. You will very soon though by judging the blessing of judgment will come to you. Gods judgment is good and for correction i hope you will recieve it as from His hand.<<

    This kind of remark is not correction, it is spiritual blackmail and it is not of God.

    If Wayne truly did not know what he was doing, would Jesus, who said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do" condemn him to judgment? He would not, but you clearly would. This type of threat comes from a prideful heart that is not right with God – and by it your heart is revealed.

    The same goes for your veiled venom against Heidi. If you were the man of God you try to portray yourself as, you would not use threats and innuendo to defame those who oppose you.

    You have been corrected and clearly intend to retain your erroneous views. Therefore, I sincerely hope that those who truly love God will mark and avoid you, as Scripture admonishes.

    May your threats and curses fall to the ground.

  46. Seraphah Jul 10th 2010

    And as Andrew has requested – to the topic – We are commanded to judge what goes on in what claims to be the Church. Over and over in Scripture we are warned to take heed so we are not deceived. The fruit of these manifestations are not holiness or righteousness. The purveyors of these manifestations – of whom Todd Bentley is one of the most active currently – are clearly not interested in Scriptural admonition, else they would not have a man clearly guilty of adultery ministering in the house of God. (His divorce from his Christian wife and subsequent marriage to his partner in adultery does NOT mitigate his sin.)

    The ‘prophetic movement’ is riddled with pride, arrogance and error in doctrine. They have appointed themselves as ‘apostles’ and ‘prophets’ and lord it over the people of God in defiance of Jesus’ commands. added to the Scripture whatever vain imagining they have decided to embrace and peddle it to the unthinking masses as truth.

    I am very much afraid that what we are seeing with this invasion is the working out of 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
    The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

  47. Seraphah wrote:

    “Shaking under conviction or the weight of glory is, indeed the ‘trembling’ mentioned in Scripture, not the spasmodic jerking we see in this video. The ONLY times I have seen such jerking and uncontrollable actions from people was in the demonized while casting out those demons.

    Show me ONE TIME where anyone in Scripture fell down and jerked or made animal noises. Those who ‘fell down’ were ‘as dead’ – dead people don’t jerk or make animal noises.”

    Thank you Seraphah and for mentioning this, as you are right. A good example of someone who “fell down as dead” was John in the Book of Revelation:

    Rev 1:17: ” And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.”

    And in Daniel 10:7-10 we read:

    “Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

    Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.

    And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands.”

    So, Daniel was saying “no strength remained in him” and he “was in a deep sleep on his face toward the ground” (King James version)

    And in another version it says he ” trembled’ on his knees and on the palms of his hands.( NKJ)

    But NO WHERE does it say he was shaking violently like a spinning top.

    It says he “trembled” which means in the original hebrew to “quiver” “shake” tremble” “stumble”etc. BUT NOT TO VIOLENTLY jerk around as displayed on the videos.

  48. Andrew: you request to stay on topic. This is the topic evoked by the video clip. Each respondent is hanging their experience on the line for examination. The agreement/disagreement is healthy as long as persons “introspect” under God’s Holy Spirit’s guidance. What we need to keep in mind, is that which cannot be dialogued, becomes dogma.

    Seraphah: Jesus, being a 1st Century jew, probably spoke in Aramaic, and read the Hebrew and the Greek. Other people transliterated/translated over the centuries; from the spoken, oral Aramaic to Hebrew, to Greek, to the Latin (around 4th Century CE); to German (around 15th Century CE), to English (KJV 16th Century CE). The KJV was a product of King James II who had a political agenda that the KJV had to reflect the sovereignty of monarchies.

    So, when you read the writings attributed to the disciple, Matthew, the Holy Spirit will speak to your spirit the meaning “where the rubber hits the road” for you. This does not give us permission to judge the “other”; or the “translation” or “interpretation”, “paraphrasing” s/he reads; the spirit of judgement/rebuke/reprimand/ comes in tandem with a spirit of religious legalism.

    The person guided by God’s Holy Spirit, always asks the question of their Heavenly Father, “can this be true?”

  49. anthony Jul 10th 2010

    Perhaps the coming of the lawless one will eclipse all that is obviously wrong in charismatic circles and the ridiculous ramblings of self appointed prophets.Time to cling to the only One who is a ever present help in time of trouble.Blessings

  50. Anthony wrote:

    “Perhaps the coming of the lawless one will eclipse all that is obviously wrong in charismatic circles and the ridiculous ramblings of self appointed prophets.Time to cling to the only One who is a ever present help in time of trouble.Blessings”

    That is perceptive Anthony. I agree. I think the “coming of the lawless one” signs and lieing wonders and delusions will be so great, that unless you are clinging to the Holy Living God so closely, you could possibly be deceived……if that were possible for the elect.

    The lawless one and the false prophet’s “delusions” will dwarf what we are even seeing right now, with the fake gold dust, gems falling, feathers, laughing like hyenas, jerking, barking, etc. etc.

    The “man of sin” will be very, very deceptive and come as a man of “peace and love and kindness”.

    Meanwhile,he will be allowing the killing of those who don’t accept his pseudo type of “peace, love and kindness”.

    One of the issues mentioned by Andrew in the video, was the feelings of “intense waves of love” that the people who were touched by the kundalini spirit, experienced.

    People who seek after “highs” of emotional feelings and experiences will surely be deceived.

    Satan comes as a gentle angel of light.

  51. I was reading some of the posts this morning about what appears to have turned into a deception debate. A while later, while driving to work, I received a picture (vision), which I believe speaks of the deception in the church concerning the “new wine/ latter rain” movement. I also see that this vision ties in with some of my posts where I have shared about, what I call, the un-holy dissatisfaction we have witnessed in the church.

    The vision:
    I saw a large crowd of people on a grassy plain, which was elevated high above the ocean. The edge of the field on the ocean side was somewhat sticking out like a large overhang, rough and broken up.
    Then I saw many of the people walk toward the edge as if curiously wondering what they might be able to see if they got real close to that edge. Others however stood back, keeping away from the edge, rather apprehensive of what might happen. As more and more people made their way to the edge, all of a sudden the overhang crumbled and broke, with the people falling.

    As I have previously written on other topics, I see an un-holy dissatisfaction in the church that has caused people to open themselves up to some new and seemingly exciting teachings. They have been lured to walk to the edge in order to find something new and exciting, perhaps more satisfying. (Like a Christian man who leaves his wife in the hope to find a better, more satisfying relationship; or like a drug addict who always needs a new or stronger fix. Or simply, as the saying goes: “The grass is always greener on the other side.”)
    Others, however, have remained standing firm on, what might be perceived by the dissatisfied believers, as boring fundamental old-style Scripture based teachings. They have used discernment, rooted in a deep personal relationship with Jesus and a strong foundation of the Word. These are the ones who did not walk to the edge. They are careful to listen and determine if it is really the Shepherd calling or someone who is just imitating His voice.

    Blessings, and All 4 Jesus!
    Mario

  52. watchful Jul 10th 2010

    I kind of think the bottom line is uncrucified flesh, which has an insatiable appetite for entertainment – it’s interesting how this movement is mirroring the world’s overindulgence in entertainment. After being a part of it all for a while, I began to feel that my spirit was starving – there came a time when I noticed that God’s word was rarely preached, except occasionally from a visiting speaker. Some might object that they used the bible in their preaching all the time, well, yes…but that doesn’t always add up to mean God’s word, otherwise I wouldn’t have been starving. The “Renewal” began to become the idol that was preached from the pulpit, instead of the Living God from whom I believe the blessing originally came – it’s very unfortunate that flesh got a hold of it and perverted what was meant in the beginning to have been a time of great refreshing.. but did God know this would happen? Yes, and this is how His Spirit reveals hearts..

    Remember what happened to the Israelites who used their bare hands (flesh) to touch the ark and stop it from tipping? The ark (His presence) always brought cursing instead of blessing when there was sin. Now they seem to be given over to a wrong spirit, a strong delusion, but I repent before the Lord for judging those whom He loves when I should have been weeping, and I wonder whether it’s healthy to continually look upon their punishment, but it’s better to focus ahead to where we are going – onward to Christlikeness so that there will be some who can show them and the world what the real Jesus looks like. That was a big part of the problem in the first place that there was nobody to demonstrate to us the real Jesus – I know that’s what I went there in the first place hoping to find.

  53. Andrew J Horton Jul 10th 2010

    All that I can say was that we, my wife and I, were involved in a main line pentecostal church in NZ a few years ago and while we ended up leaving for reasons which I’ve mentioned in other threads on this forum, we never experienced in our “revival meetings” what is being described here, i.e. people barking like dogs or wriggling around on the floor like fish.

    I haven’t watched the video as I don’t want to pollute my mind with what I know I will see if I did.

    In our “revival meetings” – at which my wife and I led worship together – there was a real focus on being right with the Lord although there was an overemphasis on receiving personal words from the “prophet”, who we knew personally and was accurate but there was mixture in his teaching from scripture.

    I can remember the heavy, glorious presence of the Lord which “watchful” mentions in her post above and remember at times all of us just standing in silence – no one speaking or making any sound at all – in the presence of God.

    We had times of earnest prayer for the nation but again there was a mixture as the pastors wanted to focus on the people “getting words” and “feeling good” about themselves.

    This is where our paths diverged. We were interested in the church being a house of prayer for the nations and they were interested in I’m not quite sure what, but our visions were not the same.

    We bowed out gracefully.

    If we are hungering and thirsting for righteousness we will be persecuted by all those who are not.

    If we’re not hungering and thirsting after righteousness then we’re by default hungering and thirsting after the world, the flesh and the devil.

  54. watchful Jul 10th 2010

    “We had times of earnest prayer for the nation but again there was a mixture as the pastors wanted to focus on the people “getting words” and “feeling good” about themselves.”

    Yes! The focus turning to “self” instead of on the Lord! That’s the point where things went astray..

    “If we’re not hungering and thirsting after righteousness then we’re by default hungering and thirsting after the world, the flesh and the devil.”

    Exactly, very well said! This reminds me of when we take the Lord’s Supper, we are told to examine ourselves, in other words be in a spirit of repentance. Could it be that the same is true when we partake of His Holy presence.

  55. watchful Jul 10th 2010

    …Just thinking out loud here, but there was a huge emphasis on inner healing in this church i was attending, I believe to the point where we insulted the Spirit of grace – because everyone was seeking to essentially strengthen “self” through healing when God says that His grace is sufficient and that His strength is made perfect in our weakness. Personally I received no healing in those days of seeking it, however, the Lord has been gracious to minister since then as I have learned to carry my cross and follow Him – true healing comes through that cross, when and how the Lord determines we need, not necessarily what and when we think we need. Oftentimes our pain is the very cross we need to crucify our flesh, and the Lord in His wisdom doesn’t want to remove the pain until it has done it’s work. Remember Paul and the thorn in his flesh..he who has suffered in the body is done with sin.

  56. Sierra Seer Jul 10th 2010

    Further,

    Andrew begins the video saying this presentation asks if false spirits have invaded the church.

    However, this presentation broadly condemns certain ministries for allowing claimed-to-be wrongs spirits to invade certain ministries.

    So, the first is a misleading statement.

    How can obviously UNTRUE statement(s) make things right?

  57. Sierra Seer wrote:

    Andrew begins the video saying this presentation asks if false spirits have invaded the church.

    However, this presentation broadly condemns certain ministries for allowing claimed-to-be wrongs spirits to invade certain ministries.

    So, the first is a misleading statement.

    How can obviously UNTRUE statement(s) make things right?”

    How so “Sierra Seer” aka: probably multiple “usernames” person?:

    What wrong with condemning EVIL ministries who promote EVIL practices which end up HURTING the sheep?

  58. “Sierra Seer”. perhaps maybe you are from ONE of these so called “ministries” which promotes these type of FALSE manifestation?

    Why would you, in your right mind DEFEND something like that?

  59. “This video starts with horror music. Hm…”

    Because it really IS a HORROR REALITY and not a just a fictional movie.

  60. Makkehelah Jul 10th 2010

    Moll wrote:
    “We are told by our Lord, in His sermon on the mount, “Do’t pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults — unless, of course, you want the same treatment. That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging. It’s easy to see a smudge on your neighbor’s face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, ‘Let me wash your face for you,’ when your own face is distorted by contempt” (Matthew 7:1&2, Peterson’s The Message)?”

    This is an example of what is wrong in these false “churches” that espouse the idol worship of false manifestations/ “words from god” and how they try to perpetuate their deception.

    They use words/bible translations to try to exempt them from judgement of their heresy. One of the tatics used is to paint anyone with the discernment to see through the deception or delusion, as Pharasee’s or imply someone has a “spirit of religious legalism”, while trying to appear as un-judgemental.

    If you carefully read “the Message” translation quoted above you will see that several words not actually in the text are ADDED to the Scripture. Along with the emotionally charged words, “Do’t pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults, an attempt is made to exempt themselves from from judgement with the phrase “That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging.”

    Seraphah you are correct stating: “By simple reading of the text, it is clear that Jesus is NOT saying that you cannot judge. In fact, just the opposite is true – Jesus says “FIRST remove the plank from your own eye, and THEN you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” You are to judge yourself before you judge others, because your own sins can affect your judgement of other’s sins – and if you judge your brother for a sin you are also guilty of, you are, in effect, accepting whatever punishment you deemed justified for your brother’s sin.”

    For many, many years now a lack of judging what is going on in churches with these manifestations, by the very leaders that profess to be the “Apostles and Prophets”, has caused a great deception to be unleashed on the body of Christ. This is certainly the beginnings of strong delusions that are given by God to those that reject the Truth. How bad it can get I don’t want to contemplate, but I’m certain until my time of “speaking the truth into the darkness” is done. With God’s help I will speak what He tells/shows me reguardless of the cost, that some may be saved from the fire.

    There is hope though. True believers do see through the deceptions and use the talents God has given them to warn and try to help the ones truely after God’s heart to get out of the deception. Do not weary at contending for the faith.

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
    5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. ” John 1:1-14

    Jesus said:
    “12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” Matthew 7:12-27

  61. watchful Jul 10th 2010

    27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” Matthew 7:12-27

    Yes, and it seems to me we are living in that day, the false house is falling, and there is a separation going on.

    There seem to be different kinds of “judging” in scripture, on the one hand it says, “who are you to judge another man’s servant”, but on the other hand it says, “what business is it of mine to judge those outside the church, should I not judge those on the inside” (paraphrasing). There is also the kind of judgment that condemns. I have wondered if the plank in the eye is an attitude of condemnation, we cannot help our brother/sister as long as we are looking at him/her with eyes of condemnation, which is hypocritical because we are all made of the same fallen flesh.

  62. Clare Watts Jul 11th 2010

    Reading the devotional that Chip Brogden posts daily, this morning he had a very appropriate message….

    “Whom have I in heaven but You? And there is none upon earth that I desire beside You” (Psalms 73:25).

    Why are so many dissatisfied? Because they are looking for other things – even good things, spiritual things – to fill a void which only Christ can fill. I am not talking about sinners, I am talking about Christians who look for religious things to fill the void Christ was meant to fill. They are no different than sinners who look for sinful things to fill the same void.

    This Life accepts no substitutes. It does not perpetuate itself through religious activity, spiritual experiences, hours of prayer, listening to sermons, or long periods of meditation. The Life is perpetuated when we touch the Living Christ directly. And once we know how, we may touch Him immediately and constantly.

    Good one, Chip! We have no need of ANYTHING that distracts us from Jesus. Jesus Christ is LORD. May the Holy Spirit minister truth to us, and may we have hearts and minds to accept it and walk in it.

  63. browe73 Jul 11th 2010

    Dear Andrew
    Many thanks for warning us about what is going on in todays churches espicially in the charasmatic and pentecostal churches around the world.
    We really do need to test the spirits to see if they are truely of the LORD.
    I for one used to be into the teachings of Rodney Howard Browne, Todd Bently and Kenneth Copeland.
    When i watched this video and prayed to God whether this is off you i beleive that what is in the video is true and every christian around the world need to watch this video and prove to themselves to see what they beleive in is a true spirit of God or a False one.
    I seek the Lord that I will follow the true spirit and not the false Kundalani Spirit

  64. It is important to know what is going on around us, to be sober and vigilant at the same time as having the fruit of the Holy Spirit including love, joy, peace, patience, and self-control. I appreciate the insights of those who have been through a lot and seen a lot of real stuff and a lot of counterfeits, and Brother Andrew, thanks again for the video and your others.

    I too have been at a church that was in revival but lost its focus on God and started focusing on man. They started having lots of conferences with famous speakers and putting trust in those men’s “greater revelaton.” The church was prgressively invaded and the presence of God was less and less there as false spirits kept being embraced and given credence. Discernment went out the window and kundalini and other spirits gained more and more ground as they were allowed.

    Let’s pray for the church/es to get victory over kundalini and other evil spirits, OK? Even if we are not all in agreement over who is influenced by what, surely we can still pray that out of sincere love for God and His church.

  65. ONLY THE JESUS CHRIST OF THE BIBLE WILL SAVE US FROM THE DELUDED RELIGIOUS NONSENSE OF THE UNBIBLICAL/ANTIBIBLICAL/SUPERBIBLICAL.
    THE WHOLE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN TO WARN US ABOUT THESE FALSE TEACHERS AND SUPER SPIRITUAL WACKOS.
    THOSE OF US WHO WILL BE SAVED MUST RESIST THEIR FALSE TEACHING AND VAIN IMAGINATIONS WITH EVERY OUNCE OF SPIRITUAL VITALITY WE HAVE.

    “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
    sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)

    My only hope is that some will wake up and come out of these Latter Rain revivals. There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
    leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
    Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.

  66. In JOHN 18:38, Pontius Pilate asks Jesus: “What is truth?” Jesus says of God’s Word: “Thy Word is Truth” (JOHN 17:17).

    The Bible, The Word of God IS TRUTH in all matters. The beliefs of the truly born again must be from God’s Word.

    Every other philosophy is but dung when compared to God’s Holy Word. God commands us to pay such close attention to His Word, because if we do not, and ignore anything He relates to us, we will be punished in an eternal Hell

    Christians are not perfect, neither is our understanding of God’s Word complete, but we would rather be found ‘overcoming our sinful natures’ and gaining knowledge of God’s Light, than being deceived by vain philosophies in this modern-day society, which has not only ignored, but also destroyed our heritage which led us for so long.

    This contempt for the Word of God is where these false teachings and subsequent exposure to demonic spirits is coming from.

    Many in the church today, indeed following many preachers presenting themselves as “anointed ones” who cannot be questioned or challenged, have abandoned the fountain of living waters and created their own brand of Christianity — a form of Christianity that is perverse, pernicious and powerless, but profitable

    There is no excuse for ignorance – see God’s warning: “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children” (HOSEA 4:6).

    “Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say Who is the Lord? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain” (Proverbs 30:8-9).

    “Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near …” (ISAIAH 55:6).

    ■”Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls…..” Jeremiah 6:16

    ■”Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set” Proverbs 22:28

  67. watchful Jul 11th 2010

    In many circles the bible is used as a convenient tool to back up erroneous doctrines and ideas. It’s not so much that they don’t read the scriptures, but that they have only the dead letter and lack revelation of the truth. It’s easy to cherry-pick from the bible verses that seem to support the errors. But why no revelation? My observation is that it’s because of having no cross – truth must be bought and paid for with a price, and there are many who are paying no price, who are carrying no cross, which automatically defaults into apostasy and dead religion. Christianity without the cross is..what?… Just another religion. From the cross comes everything that is life and light and truth. From the cross comes the extra oil for our lamps that must be bought. Jeremiah 6:16 is talking about the cross being the Way that leads to the Sabbath rest – it is ancient revelation that has been lost, first by the Israelites, and now by the church. My prayer has very much been for the Lord to restore the understanding of the necessity of the disciple’s cross to a church that has lost this understanding – and I believe He will do that for many, but in the form of tribulation.

    Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

  68. watchful Jul 11th 2010

    ….. >

    1Cr 3:12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
    1Cr 3:13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work.
    1Cr 3:14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
    1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

  69. Andrew J Horton Jul 11th 2010

    It’s a good point you make a few posts up about “when we partake in His Holy presence” “watchful”, when you’re standing in that quiet place of worship and the presence of God is thick around you, you become very conscious of just how small and insignificant you are.

  70. To Makkehelah: Don’t you comprehend? The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob — the Great I AM, He has said you shall have “One God, None Other, for I the Lord Your God am a jealous God”. There are no replacements/substitutes for Him. He is dynamic.

    The 1st and 2nd Commandments from Exodus 20 put us on notice that if we place anything in our life ahead of Him, He will remove that from you. He will be #1 in your life, OR He will NOT be in your life at all.

    No religious ritual; no book, including the Bible; no pet translation of His Word; no denomination; nothing will take His place in your life. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

    So what if Petersen ADDED an extra word into a translation? In God’s economy what is important is what did His Spirit tell you that meant when you read it? Will you obey it? Or have you placed your pet english translation above Him?

    You have no idea how many words have been placed into “God’s mouth” when it has been transliterated-translated from the greek-to-latin-to-german-to-english, words and ideas about what those words mean, which are NOT there in the original! Even when you write here, in your choice of words, including your emotionally charged concepts of what words might mean, you are putting words into God’s mouth.

    In our home, we read the scriptures in the original language it was written in. We avoid playing english semantic games with the Word of God. If you can’t do that, find someone who reads the original. Do bible studies with such a person. Such an exercise will enrich your faith-walk.

    So, I’ll finish the quoting Matthew 7, from Petersen’s, The Message.

    “It’s this whole traveling road-show mentality all over again, playing a holier-than-thou part instead of just living your part. Wipe that ugly sneer off your own face, and you might be fit to offer a washcloth to your neighbour” (Matthew 7:1-5, from Peterson’s The Message).

  71. Makkehelah Jul 12th 2010

    @Moll
    It appears King James II was not the only one that had an agenda.

    You first tell Heidi the following:
    Moll Jul 9th 2010

    To Heidi: Remember John 3:17. If it wasn’t your Saviour’s job/duty/calling/mission to condemn mankind, why is it yours? Stop it.

    Then you tell Seraphah the following:
    Moll Jul 9th 2010
    We are told by our Lord, in His sermon on the mount, “Do’t pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults — unless, of course, you want the same treatment. That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging. It’s easy to see a smudge on your neighbor’s face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, ‘Let me wash your face for you,’ when your own face is distorted by contempt” (Matthew 7:1&2, Peterson’s The Message)?

    Then you tell Seraphah the following:

    “Moll Jul 10th 2010
    The KJV was a product of King James II who had a political agenda that the KJV had to reflect the sovereignty of monarchies.”

    So, when you read the writings attributed to the disciple, Matthew, the Holy Spirit will speak to your spirit the meaning “where the rubber hits the road” for you. This does not give us permission to judge the “other”; or the “translation” or “interpretation”, “paraphrasing” s/he reads; the spirit of judgement/rebuke/reprimand/ comes in tandem with a spirit of religious legalism.

    Now I’m curious just what did you percieve that I have placed above God in my life that you feel the need to threaten me with “The 1st and 2nd Commandments from Exodus 20 put us on notice that if we place anything in our life ahead of Him, He will remove that from you. He will be #1 in your life, OR He will NOT be in your life at all.”?

    I undserstand that you might think you are way more spiritual than I am, because you read the bible in the original languages, and know how many words have been placed into “God’s mouth”. How would the phrase, “playing a holier-than-thou part instead of just living your part.” fit with that?

    What gives you permission to judge without it being done to you? Do you think you are exempt from your quoted words from The Message paraphrase?

    “Do’t pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults” When you meet God be sure to tell Him that according to you and Peterson’s The Message paraphase bible, that Jesus, the Apostles, the Prophets, John the Babtist and Makkehelah, along with many others you know or will meet, are guilty of critizing people, which is wrong.

    Also remind yourself, “This does not give us permission to judge the “other”; or the “translation” or “interpretation”, “paraphrasing” s/he reads; the spirit of judgement/rebuke/reprimand/ comes in tandem with a spirit of religious legalism.” “If it wasn’t your Saviour’s job/duty/calling/mission to condemn mankind, why is it yours? Stop it.”

  72. Seraphah Jul 12th 2010

    For the record, I believe in the inerrancy of Scripture as inspired by God and firmly believe that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” If we cannot rely on Scripture as our guide, we are lost.

    @Moll
    You quote from such a completely politically correct, liberally twisted paraphrase as The Message and accuse Makkehelah of ’emotionally charged concepts of what words might mean?’ For your information, the Greek language (and all other translations that are not paraphrases) supports the KJV in these verses – not Peterson’s rendering. The KJV was translated from the Greek Textus Receptus – not ‘greek-to-latin-to-german-to-english’ as you seem to think. Their intent was to get away from the Latin Vulgate in use by the Catholic Church and provide a Bible untainted by Rome. While the English translators were clearly biased by their time and own society – as a study of the original language will show – they did a remarkably good job of it.

    You charge that Makkehelah placed his ‘pet english translation’ above God and of putting words in God’s mouth, when you are stridently defending YOUR ‘pet english translation’ which really DOES put words in God’s mouth by adding words that are NOT supported by the original language and omitting words that are. You say that you ‘avoid playing english semantic games with the Word of God.’ Don’t you comprehend? That is EXACTLY what ‘modern’ paraphrases are for!

    For those who want to examine more of Eugene Peterson’s social bias and changing of the intent of the Scriptures see http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/Message.html

    Interestingly Peterson himself says in a Christianity Today interview:
    “When I’m in a congregation where somebody uses [The Message] in the Scripture reading, it makes me a little uneasy. I would never recommend it be used as saying, “Hear the Word of God from The Message.”

    You clearly believe that it’s OK to change, omit or add to Scripture according to YOUR understanding which you say comes from the Holy Spirit. This is exactly how those who are spreading these lying signs and wonders in the Church defend themselves. Their revelations are above the written Scriptures. According to them, the ‘Holy Spirit’ told them these things were OK. They confirm their ‘revelations’ among themselves, casting Scripture into paraphrases and ideas that support their actions. How dare you object to them, Moll, when you are claiming the same distinction? How can we know that you are right and they are wrong? Because you say so?

    BTW – you say “we read the scriptures in the original language it was written in.” Tell me, did you get your copy right from Paul – or perhaps John. Did Moses and the other Hebrew writers sign their OT manuscripts for you? (YES, this is sarcasm.) My point is that, even if you study from the original languages as you claim, you are relying on copies made by men and passed on through years of copies and recopies. So, in reality, your ‘original’ languages are no better than the English in that respect. So get off your spiritual high horse.

    You, who rebuked Heidi for ‘attacking’ David Larsen – which is what started this chain of discussion – have just done exactly that to Makkehelah. You certainly make a lot of assumptions as you put yourself up as spiritually superior in your study of the Scriptures. But you have absolutely NO IDEA how Makkehelah studies Scripture or what God has or has not shown him.

    You had best remember – satan could quote Scripture. And I’ll bet he can read the original languages better than any human being that ever lived. He paraphrases really well, too.

    Your words, Moll, were “Remember John 3:17. If it wasn’t your Saviour’s job/duty/calling/mission to condemn mankind, why is it yours? Stop it.”

    Get your log out of the way before you go after anyone else’s speck.

  73. HappyTrails Jul 12th 2010

    WOW….What was in this video that brought out all the UGLY STRIVING OF THE FLESH? ALL THE HEATED ANGER?

    Too many words from the flesh….not enough water from theSpirit of God.

    PAY HEED TO THESE WORDS:
    Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

    If you are operating in the flesh, rather than under the authority of the Holy Spirit, YOUR WORDS BRING DARKNESS….NOT LIGHT.

  74. Seraphah Jul 13th 2010

    In order to judge a righteous judgment, we have to have a basis to start from.

    It is so easy to say ‘judge by the Holy Spirit’ – and we should do so – but the problem with such a statement is that there are many who say “The Holy Spirit showed me that these manifestations were from God!” How do you refute that? You can say “The Holy Spirit told me that these manifestations are demonic.” Now, obviously one of you must be wrong – but how can anyone tell?

    Well, obviously you can ask the Holy Spirit for yourself. The problem is, if you are accepting false spirits, then those same spirits will be swift to step in and assure you that OF COURSE they are from God. So, there has to be more than a subjective answer. That is what Andrew is trying to provide with his book.

    The other means we have for judging these things is the fruit and the WORD. The issue of what the WORD actually says and what translation of the WORD you use is very relevant to this discussion, since the purveyors of this movement use whatever translation / paraphrase they can that best suits their needs. Even translations are biased to some degree, but it is much easier to dig them out with a good interlinear. Paraphrases, on the other hand, are so utterly subject to the biases and mindset of the author that they are virtually worthless as an authoritative reference.

    Have you ever said something and had another person take what you said in an entirely different fashion than what you intended? Did they tell others ‘what you said’ adding words to your statement that twisted it out of all recognition? If so, you were the victim of a paraphrase.

    Can God teach people through paraphrases? Sure. He can teach and reach people through anything – even purely secular media. He taught me an important spiritual lesson through The Lord of the Rings. Does that mean that The Lord of the Rings is from God – No. Does that make the Lord of the Rings something to base my theology on? Of course not. That doesn’t even mean I should recommend that anyone else read the book.

    I have personally studied out many things from Scripture. God has a way of dropping issues into my lap and expecting me to ‘study to show myself approved.’ In the end, I have always been sent back to 2 Timothy 3:16-17. When the issue was ‘angelic appearances’ I was sent to Scripture to study angels. When the issue was ‘manifestations of the Holy Spirit’ I was sent to Scripture to look at the manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

    I have no problem with anyone holding anything I say up to the Scripture, in fact, I encourage it. It’s no skin off my nose if people want to ignore everything I post. I don’t have all the answers., I am no more spiritual than many others and I’m not the one in charge here. Sometimes I’m told to ignore things, and sometimes I’m told to confront. I try very hard to just do what I’m told, no more, no less. I don’t always succeed, but God takes care of that, too.

    I do have a hot button – I admit that freely. I hate child abuse. And, when I see someone who stands on a spiritual perch and slaps a child of God with their supposed authority I get angry (Which, BTW is God’s reaction as well). Those who do this while at the same time claiming immunity for themselves from questioning or rebuke really get me steamed.

    I firmly believe that those who lead the meetings where these manifestations occur are in deep trouble with God. Are they damned to hell? If they don’t repent, probably. But that is neither my call nor my problem. I am not here to condemn people – I am here to confront deception, in whatever guise it takes.

    I freely admit that I do not always see eye to eye with Andrew Strom, but I am told by the Holy Spirit that his heart is after God.

    I pray that anything I say or do that is not of God falls to the ground and that all I do at His command goes to His glory and His alone. Amen.

  75. 1. “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
    sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)
    My only hope is that some will read it, heed it, and come out of these Latter Rain
    revivals. There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
    leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
    Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.
    It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have
    clearly been warned that it would come. It is still a little frightening that so many of God’s people today
    could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.
    “You shall be as gods.” The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
    Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army”
    are putting forth today. You will become Christ – God on this earth. The heresy of Apotheosis. And yet
    thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.
    The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion. Like those foolish virgins of the
    parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is
    instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits. This counterfeit anointing comes with a
    counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ. They
    will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
    “rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.
    What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
    Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
    from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.
    If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back
    to the Bible. Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures.
    “Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
    or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
    don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.” I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have
    family and close personal friends there. But if they will not hear you – leave them behind.
    The Latter Rain prophets are right about one thing – doctrine divides. Truth separates the wheat from
    the chaff. In the early Church the Apostles kept the deceivers and false apostles out. They did this by
    publicly identifying the heretics and warning the sheep of their false doctrines. Because of the diligence of
    the true apostles of our Lord, the false apostles and their followers were forced to leave the Church. The
    Apostle John writes:
    “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many
    antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not
    of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might
    be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)
    Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in
    many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their
    false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from
    among them 1. “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
    sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)
    My only hope is that some will read it, heed it, and come out of these Latter Rain
    revivals. There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
    leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
    Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.
    It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have
    clearly been warned that it would come. It is still a little frightening that so many of God’s people today
    could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.
    “You shall be as gods.” The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
    Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army”
    are putting forth today. You will become Christ – God on this earth. The heresy of Apotheosis. And yet
    thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.
    The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion. Like those foolish virgins of the
    parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is
    instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits. This counterfeit anointing comes with a
    counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ. They
    will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
    “rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.
    What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
    Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
    from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.
    If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back
    to the Bible. Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures.
    “Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
    or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
    don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.” I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have
    family and close personal friends there. But if they will not hear you – leave them behind.
    The Latter Rain prophets are right about one thing – doctrine divides. Truth separates the wheat from
    the chaff. In the early Church the Apostles kept the deceivers and false apostles out. They did this by
    publicly identifying the heretics and warning the sheep of their false doctrines. Because of the diligence of
    the true apostles of our Lord, the false apostles and their followers were forced to leave the Church. The
    Apostle John writes:
    “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many
    antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not
    of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might
    be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)
    Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in
    many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their
    false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from
    1. “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
    sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)
    My only hope is that some will read it, heed it, and come out of these Latter Rain
    revivals. There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
    leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
    Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.
    It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have
    clearly been warned that it would come. It is still a little frightening that so many of God’s people today
    could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.
    “You shall be as gods.” The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
    Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army”
    are putting forth today. You will become Christ – God on this earth. The heresy of Apotheosis. And yet
    thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.
    The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion. Like those foolish virgins of the
    parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is
    instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits. This counterfeit anointing comes with a
    counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ. They
    will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
    “rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.
    What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
    Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
    from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.
    If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back
    to the Bible. Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures.
    “Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
    or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
    don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.” I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have
    family and close personal friends there. But if they will not hear you – leave them behind.
    The Latter Rain prophets are right about one thing – doctrine divides. Truth separates the wheat from
    the chaff. In the early Church the Apostles kept the deceivers and false apostles out. They did this by
    publicly identifying the heretics and warning the sheep of their false doctrines. Because of the diligence of
    the true apostles of our Lord, the false apostles and their followers were forced to leave the Church. The
    Apostle John writes:
    “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many
    antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not
    of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might
    be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)
    Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their
    false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from them

    2 Corinthians 6:17 (King James Version)

    17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

  76. I am very sorry for pasting the above comment twice.
    Please disregard the above comment for this reason.

  77. 1. “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
    sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)
    My only hope is that some will read it, heed it, and come out of these Latter Rain
    revivals. There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
    leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
    Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.
    It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have
    clearly been warned that it would come. It is still a little frightening that so many of God’s people today
    could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.
    “You shall be as gods.” The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
    Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army”
    are putting forth today. You will become Christ – God on this earth. The heresy of Apotheosis. And yet
    thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.
    The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion. Like those foolish virgins of the
    parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is
    instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits. This counterfeit anointing comes with a
    counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ. They
    will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
    “rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.
    What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
    Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
    from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.
    If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back
    to the Bible. Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures.
    “Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
    or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
    don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.” I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have
    family and close personal friends there. But if they will not hear you – leave them behind.
    The Latter Rain prophets are right about one thing – doctrine divides. Truth separates the wheat from
    the chaff. In the early Church the Apostles kept the deceivers and false apostles out. They did this by
    publicly identifying the heretics and warning the sheep of their false doctrines. Because of the diligence of
    the true apostles of our Lord, the false apostles and their followers were forced to leave the Church. The
    Apostle John writes:
    “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many
    antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not
    of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might
    be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)
    Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in
    many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their
    false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from
    1. “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
    sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)
    My only hope is that some will read it, heed it, and come out of these Latter Rain
    revivals. There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
    leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
    Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.
    It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have
    clearly been warned that it would come. It is still a little frightening that so many of God’s people today
    could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.
    “You shall be as gods.” The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
    Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army”
    are putting forth today. You will become Christ – God on this earth. The heresy of Apotheosis. And yet
    thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.
    The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion. Like those foolish virgins of the
    parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is
    instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits. This counterfeit anointing comes with a
    counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ. They
    will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
    “rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.
    What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
    Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
    from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.
    If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back
    to the Bible. Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures.
    “Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
    or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
    don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.” I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have
    family and close personal friends there. But if they will not hear you – leave them behind.
    The Latter Rain prophets are right about one thing – doctrine divides. Truth separates the wheat from
    the chaff. In the early Church the Apostles kept the deceivers and false apostles out. They did this by
    publicly identifying the heretics and warning the sheep of their false doctrines. Because of the diligence of
    the true apostles of our Lord, the false apostles and their followers were forced to leave the Church. The
    Apostle John writes:
    “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many
    antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not
    of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might
    be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)
    Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their
    false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from them

    2 Corinthians 6:17 (King James Version)

    17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

  78. Check out the system-atic theology you are being exposed to in the formal organized “religious” groupings you attend. Are you listening to some version of the 1600s Covenant-cum-Replacement-cum-Liberation error-riddled theology? Getting rid of U Name It will not be enough. Drill down to the basic theology you are being taught.

    “…sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear: having a good conscience …” (IPeter 3:15KJV).

    “Don’t give the opposition a second thought. Through thick and thin, keep your hearts at attention, in adoration before [the Lord]. Be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you’re living the way you are, and always with the utmost courtesy. Keep a clear conscience before God, so that when people throw mud at you, none of it will stick…” (same portion, Petersen’s The Message).

    Can you do that? Give a clear, precise, concise answer to those who ask, for the HOPE that is within you?

    God made man. Man rebels(led) against God’s authority over our lives. God made a Bridge back to His eternal life. If we accept/obey His Bridge, we will live eternally with Him in Glory.

    End of Story!

    Now, it’s your turn to boil your theology down to succinct, precise, concise language that will leave no doubt in the minds of those who hear/read your words.

  79. Seraphah Jul 14th 2010

    >>>Jul 13th 2010 Wayne writes: Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their
    false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from them …<<<

    I believe that this is part of the end time bundling of the tares Jesus spoke of in his parable in Matthew 13:24-30. I also believe that this is one of the most common strong delusions as spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12. There are others as well in accordance with the WORD:
    “He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog’s neck; He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine’s blood; He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol. Just as they have chosen their own ways, And their soul delights in their abominations, So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.” Isaiah 66:3-4

    Be diligent, Brethren, and take heed that you are not deceived by the false teachers and prophets and those who twist the Scriptures to their destruction.

    If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

    Matthew 22:14
    “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

    Luke 13:23-30
    Then one said to Him [Jesus], “Lord, are there few who are saved?” And He said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. “When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ “then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ “But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ “There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. “They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. “And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

  80. The evil spirits that JESUS himself cast out, such as in the book of MARK 9:14-29 “The Healing of a Boy With an Evil Spirit” and/or MATTHEW 4:23-25 “JESUS Heals the Sick”. They were demon-possessed having fits(epilepsy/seizures) that even caused the little boy to throw himself into fire or water and not be aware of it. These Bible passages and others speak as if they fell prey to KUNDALINI Spirits. I myself had seizures, caused by a blow to my head in a car wreck and since my return to JESUS(4 yrs.ago) my seizures have stopped. I’ve fallen down several times in the past, a flight of stairs being the worse and did’nt know it until I woke and felt as if I did’nt even go to sleep, almost fealing as if I were drunk. Thanks be to our FATHER GOD through CHRIST JESUS, I’VE BEEN SAVED! May GOD bless you all.

  81. Andrew J Horton Jul 15th 2010

    Praise God “Brian”, Amen… :-)

    Are you “Randall’s” friend by any chance? “Randall” shared a few weeks back about a friend he had who’d had a car accident and how he and this friend and his wife had had a really blessed time where the Lord ministered to them all. “Randall’s” testimony really encouraged me at the time and I wondered if it was you and your wife which he’d met with? I might be right off base here but I’m just curious… :-)

  82. Today is another blessed day, as with all days our “FATHER GOD” has made!
    Thank you, “Andrew” for the reply. But, I don’t think I’m the person your friend “Randall” spoke to you about. Because, I’m not married. Though, I will say that if we have “JESUS” we’re all brothers and sisters in the eyes of our “FATHER GOD” and that is all that matters. I saw our brother & friend in the LORD “Andrew Strom” speak at our church “House of Hope” in Tampa,Florida. He’s being used by our “FATHER GOD” for works in the mighty name of “JESUS” all praise be to our “FATHER GOD”… :-)

  83. Katrina Jul 16th 2010

    As a Missionary I have traveled all over the world including Africa and have seen many different demonic manifestations.
    When Rodney Howard Brown came on the scene years ago he seduced the people, including Pastors, through a hypnotic spirit.
    The Bible tells us that we have the Spirit of a sound mind, yet people, and many Pastors who have been seduced by this Holy laughter seem to forget their name!
    What’s wrong with this Picture? Discern it people! Wheres the sound mind when they forget their name and where they live!
    Now we are seeing the gold dust and the rubies falling from the ceilings.
    These are all counterfiet! God help us!
    I thank God for you brother Andrew, keep speaking the Truth!

  84. Seraphah Jul 17th 2010

    ON Jul 10th 2010 watchful writes:

    >>>>>There seem to be different kinds of “judging” in scripture, on the one hand it says, “who are you to judge another man’s servant”, but on the other hand it says, “what business is it of mine to judge those outside the church, should I not judge those on the inside” (paraphrasing). There is also the kind of judgment that condemns. <<<<<

    You are right – there are several different issues with judgment. It can be confusing, but if you study them all out, you begin to see the differences.

    Paul says at one point: "I do not even judge myself." This if from 1 Corinthians 4:1-4: Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

    This is talking about their ministry work being judged by man's standards or expectations. We are not to allow worldly wisdom and censure to disturb us.

    “who are you to judge another man’s servant” is from Romans 14:1-5:
    Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

    This is a discussion of concerning the personal observation in matters of diet and keeping of the sabbath. What it is saying is that you cannot decide what God has commanded another to do in these matters. Example – I have been told not to drink alcohol as a beverage (with exception made for a small amount during communion.) My friend Sharon has been told that she may have wine with her meal. I cannot judge her, nor can she judge me in this matter – we are both, as God's servants – accountable to God to obey His commands to us.

    “what business is it of mine to judge those outside the church, should I not judge those on the inside” is from 1 Corinthians 5:9-13:
    I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    We are supposed to judge by the fruit if someone is in the faith. In the case being discussed here, the man's unrepented fornication is a clear indication of departure from the faith. Therefore they are told to eject him from fellowship (Praise God he later repents and is restored!) Those 'outside', however, are unsaved. Therefore, according to John 3:18-21, they are 'condemned already' – so there is no need to judge them. God already has. That is the judgment of God , the only kind of judgment that can condemn.

  85. All of these people in the video or any like them who are still alive, will have a chance & be able to truly repent and turn to “GOD” with all their hearts all the way up to their last breath. Matthew 20:1-16 (“Parable of the Vineyard”) . So if you are with the “LORD JESUS” your entire life or the last seconds of your life is not the issue, it’s that in the end “CHRIST JESUS” has your life. Let us all pray and ask for discernment for ourselves and for all these lost souls to be able to draw near and recognize the true savior “CHRIST JESUS our LORD”. Stopping the gossip, judgement & condemnation and letting “CHRIST JESUS” do what He came to do. Abhor the evil things in these people and out of love pray for their lost souls.

  86. 1. “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her
    sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.’” (Rev 18:4 NKJV)
    My only hope is that some will read it, heed it, and come out of these Latter Rain
    revivals. There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that
    leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
    Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.
    It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have
    clearly been warned that it would come. It is still a little frightening that so many of God’s people today
    could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.
    “You shall be as gods.” The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
    Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army”
    are putting forth today. You will become Christ – God on this earth. The heresy of Apotheosis. And yet
    thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.
    The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion. Like those foolish virgins of the
    parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is
    instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits. This counterfeit anointing comes with a
    counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ. They
    will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
    “rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.
    What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
    Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist. To discern the true anointing
    from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.
    If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back
    to the Bible. Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures.
    “Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
    or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
    don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.” I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have
    family and close personal friends there. But if they will not hear you – leave them behind.
    The Latter Rain prophets are right about one thing – doctrine divides. Truth separates the wheat from
    the chaff. In the early Church the Apostles kept the deceivers and false apostles out. They did this by
    publicly identifying the heretics and warning the sheep of their false doctrines. Because of the diligence of
    the true apostles of our Lord, the false apostles and their followers were forced to leave the Church. The
    Apostle John writes:
    “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many
    antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not
    of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might
    be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)
    Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in many churches. When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their
    false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from them

    2 Corinthians 6:17 (King James Version)

    17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.