1Jo 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Can REAL christians get tricked by demonic spirits by believing their lies thus becoming possessed and also becoming false prophets?
Mark
Hi there,
This is a great question and will doubtless attract much debate.
Firstly I believe that 'real' Christians must be on guard against the lies of the evil one and in fact only God's grace keeps us from deception through His word and His Spirit.
It is possible to fall to deception but this does not mean that we become possessed.
Possession needs to be defined, I understand possession to mean that the individual is fully controlled by a demon(s) who is/are in permanent residence.
The other common condition is oppression. This is when a demon operates from outside the soul and influences through the person.
As God will not co-habit with evil I believe that a Christian cannot be possessed but may be oppressed.
Before being born again, however we have all been open to possession.
I remember in the 70's many from our church believed they were possessed, and that explained their besetting sins etc.
Our Pastor asked a returned missionary from Indonesia (who had years on the front line dealing with possession) to have a look at them and make an evaluation.
He quickly proclaimed "theses people are not possessed... These people need to repent !
And so it is for the Christian, the sin is first born in the flesh and then possibly further motivated from the outside as the devil sees an opportunity.
Carl Emerson
Possession. Hm... I don't have that answer, but something comes to mind (been on my mind several days actually) that I wonder about.
Before Conversion, we're basically "possessed" by "self".
Certainly the un-converted can be "possessed" (controlled or "filled" by an evil entity).
Would it bear out that for the Truly Converted person, having died to our self and not being "possessed" by the Enemy, that we become "possessed" by Jesus?
Jesus, of course, enters us and stays by our free will.. not like a demon would.
It is impossible for a true Christian to be possessed by a demon...
and true Christians walk in obedience.
His body is the temple of the Holy Spirit as Paul said to the Corinthians.
saying otherwise would be a mockery of the Gospel of Christ.
I see
1. possession (soul) a condition which overtakes the lost as they progress in the purposes of the kingdom of darkness.
2. oppression (mind) this condition manifests in forms of depression, anxiety, and the like. As a disciple, you can easily combat these with the WORD.
3. obsessions (flesh) These kind manifest in the forms of self gratifying lusts such as sexual immorality, gluttony, and the like and they are the source behind sickness and desease. I'm still learning about this arena.
It is my experience ONLY, that disciples can be influenced in the areas of 2. and 3. I would add that as we develope as disciples, and walk in repentance and confession, these demons get exposed and fellowship can be broken with them.
I just simply could not accept this for many years because I had a huge pride spirit hindering my walk. I thought in my head that if I had some spirit attached to me then that meant that I was some kind of phony and pretender.
That's just like the enemy. He's the real phony.
Yashua is freedom!
I've been told that a word study reveals that there are only two instances of "demon possession" in the Gospels. The others are all in realms 2. and 3.
I need to check into this myself.
If I see clearly here, If someone is possessed, the unclean spirit must be evicted so that salvation can occur. His Holy Pressence and demons simply cannot co-habitate. He is too jealous of that area.
Andrew St.Rom has a great mp3 on this subject. I think it is the "revival prayer & renouncing strongholds."
Just some thoughts from view from the wall.
Your Fellow Prisoner of Hope,
Jacob
I'm really feeling pressed to add something here if I may.
I truly see a tragedy when I see someone trying to get freedom from these types of spirits (oppressions and obsessions) and the ministering counselor begins to assure them that what the person is dealing with is just flesh.
I really believe that we are misleading people into even larger struggles with guilt and condemnation at that point. I believe that this teaching ("christians can't have demons") is leading the hindered into self hatred as weel as endless cycles of false assurances.
Make it clear in your mind that your flesh is only evil to the extent that it is used for evil. The flesh is actually a neutral arena. It is possible to have this flesh mastered by the King. It's not only possible, but it is the normal life of the disciple.
As His pressence fills us, He (The Spirit of Holiness) will ride our flesh like a powerful white stallion, leading us into the day of battle.
Bless You brothers and sisters.
ok - Most will disagree here I am sure - but I have been called to healing and deliverance ministry and yes I believe christians can be both - oppressed by a demon - demons can attach themselves to a born again believer - and - a born again believer - who has fallen of the narrow path and then has chosen the wide path towards distruction can and most likely will become Demonized.
I am not sure the word Demon Possessed is the right word - it is actually one being either oppressed - or demonized by demon spirits.
When one comes to this point of becoming demonized - there are completely controled by the demon and yes at this point If one has not received deliverance and refuses deliverance there is a point in time I believe the Holy Spirits Presence shall have left the believer.
Paul says in the end days some will - DEPART FROM THE FAITH - well one can not depart if one has never first believed - only a believer can depart - Paul goes on to tell Timothy - and they will begin to follow after doctrines of - DEMONS! These are believer Paul is speaking of here and Jesus says the same thing in Matthew 24 - many will fall away.
Paul speaks of the great aposasty - in 2 Thessalonians 2
WE SAW MANY CHRISTIANS COME TO LAKELAND - one couple there with their son for prayer for healing I knew and believe they love the Lord and have given him all the praise and glory for his progressive healing he has received - prior to going with him to Lakeland. I cried when I saw him there.
- break her for a second - people need to wait upon the Lord -
Ok back to what I was saying - many were imparted the Kundalini spirit and this is in my opinion one of the most controling invasive spirit I have ever seen with my own eyes other than the spirit of death -and yes I believe it does demonize people and control much of their body and mind.
People that have expieranced this spirit if you watch and pay close attention - they are very defensive of all the leaders who operate in this spirit - and I believe this spirit will lead many to distruction.
When infected with this type of spirit - one truely needs radical deliverance.
So demon spirits if given an open door can and will attact our mind or our body with sickness and diesease - it can make us do things we have no control over.
So yes I do know and believe christians can be demonized and at some point in their lives if not healed and delivered - the demon spirit can begin to control them.Many who are demonized will fall away.
Example - from born again christians becoming demonized. Giving access to demons -
Some will say foolishness - but the Harry Potter Movies has opend doors for demons - young and old alike - the Avitar Movie - sexual immorality -
Laying on of hands from one who walks in darkness gives way for demons - yes I do believe in transfer of demons - IF we have left ourselves un-procted -
Guided visualization - Emptying our Minds -playing with the occult - like horoscopes - weggi boards - having a fortune teller tell your fortune - all fun and games - not! - Anger - unforgiveness - these are just some I can think of.
God Bless, lynn
Harvest wrote:
"Example - from born again christians becoming demonized. Giving access to demons -
Some will say foolishness - but the Harry Potter Movies has opend doors for demons - young and old alike - the Avitar Movie - sexual immorality -
Laying on of hands from one who walks in darkness gives way for demons - yes I do believe in transfer of demons - IF we have left ourselves un-procted -
Guided visualization -
Emptying our Minds -
playing with the occult - like horoscopes - weggi boards - having a fortune teller tell your fortune -
all fun and games - not! -
Anger -
unforgiveness -
these are just some I can think of."
I just thought that was worth repeating.
Very good point when you say "open doors"
And do we call this Christian faith ?
There may be lots of demon activity and possession in Babylon ( have no one read that she is becoming a den of demons ? )
When there is no repentance in the churches, it is the open door to whatever.
what does this has to do with the Truth of the Gospel ?
what has in common darkness and light ?
The Truth is that no true believer can have demons.
When Philip was preaching the Gospel to nonChristians , demons were leaving and there was great joy.
Demons can definitely stay attached to born again belivers through strongholds that were set up before they were converted to Christ.
I do believe though that any demons that were actually posessing a part of the person or the soul would be cast out upon the person being born again.
2nd Cor. 10:3
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,"
Yes, I do not believe a demon has any right to us born again unless we open the door giving that right.
I will say I believe it possible for the new born again husband,still struggeling in the flesh - who has not heard the full gospel of Jesus Christ or a husband who is not truely born again - If one is born again he bibically is to be the spiritual man over his own household and he can open doors for his wife or children to be oppressed by demons, not controled - but - oppressed.
He can open the door to his own house thru the - TV - through Freemassonary - yes many proclaimed christians are freemasons -Elks - Secret Societies - Moose Lodge - having nudy books in the home - yes many christian men and pastors have such as this in their homes addicted to pergnophy.
Christian born again men are to oversee and to protect their homes and families.
Harvest and Tyrone,
I think you are dead on.
Debonnaire,
I can say from experience..... I have been a disciple for a long time, most of that time was spent under the influence of unclean spirits. I am still going through diliverances from time to time.
Most of this is because i was robbed of a proper salvation experience when I believed.
Many of the blessings new converts are meant to experience were not at my disposal. Namely: immediate baptism, the baptism of the Spirit of Holiness, and proper discipleship.
I would encourage you to reconsider your hardline approach to this teaching.
Blessings,
Jacob
Tyrone some of the born again christians I have prayed over for healing and deliverance had deep wounds and unforgiveness - some towards their parents, maby abuse took place - some had unforgiveness for themselves - and it breeds a deep root of bitterness and it is like a cancer and is silent until it comes to physically and spiritually destroy - I believe there is demon oppression in one born again who has unforgiveness it is an open door for opression - and I have seen many come to be prayed for healing maby several times and the Holy Spirit would show me they had unforgiveness in their heart and so we would then begin to deal with this and then I would see some immediately healed when prayed for.
There is nothing more precious than to see the saint set free from opression of a spirit and healed.
I believe many sicknesses are due to unforgiveness.
I prayer for a three year old child that began to have osomnea and went 14 days with maby 3 hours of sleep at night broken up during the night - the parents moved her into their bedroom on a cot thinging that would help but it got worse - whild praying over the child the Holy Spirit I felt reveal to me the words Freemasonary and I then asked the Parents if there was any freemassonary in their family and the Father told me his father was a thirty third mason and after my counseling the parents on the oaths one takes concerning becoming a freemasson over their families - they began to tell me the mother just want back to work part time and was leaving the child with the gradnparents half days.
The mother quit taking her child there quit her job and with prayer the child was totally delivered of this demon oppression. And was no longer allowed to be in the grandparents home, which the grandparents were very upset about even knowing the child now was able to sleep and think we are quacks.
God Bless, lynn
Jacob
i understand all walks are not the same until we find the Truth.
know that what i said is not a teaching. i am not a teacher but a preacher of the Gospel ...
blessings
Yeah Lynn, praise God for the mighty work of the Holy Spirit!
Many Christians do not know that they even have strongholds or are oppressed by the enemy, they think it's just them, how they are ect... why they keep getting sick, how they get angry so quickly, why they can't think straight.
Thats why my wife and I decided to have her stay home and take care of our newborn daughter, we didn't want to leave her with anybody! Demon spirits do get passed on, like you said, by laying on of hands, somebody praying over you thats oppressed ect... we have to be very careful with that.
Thats why Paul told Timothy in 1st Timothy 5:22
"Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people’s sins; keep yourself pure."
Tyrone:
Demon spirits do get passed on, like you said, by laying on of hands, somebody praying over you thats oppressed ect... we have to be very careful with that.
Thats why Paul told Timothy in 1st Timothy 5:22
"Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people’s sins; keep yourself pure."
Very good advice.
Thanks for everyones input!!
Mark & Susan
Luke 14 Jesus talks to us about the things that define a DISCIPLE.
A DISCIPLE CANNOT BE INDWELT BY AN EVIL SPIRIT NOR A DEMON....BECAUSE GOD HIMSELF HAS TAKEN UP RESIDENCE!
IF a born again follower has CHOSEN THE WAY OF THE FLESH INSTEAD OF THE WAY OF THE SPIRIT, THEN THEY HAVE GRIEVED THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE SHIELD OF FAITH IS NO LONGER PROTECTING THEM FROM THE ENEMIES OF GOD. They WILL BE ATTACKED AND IF THE FOLLOWER REFUSED TO REPENT, THEY WILL BE OPPRESSED AND BECOME ENSLAVED, OR IN BONDAGE TO THEIR SINS AND IDOLS.
THE LONGER THE FOLLOWER REMAINS UNREPENTANT, THE DANGER ARISES THAT GOD WILL ALLOW THEM TO CONTINUE IN THEIR DELUSION.
GOD will allow the discipline to go on until the follower is FULLY REPENTANT, WHICH IS WHEN HE/SHE BELIEVES WHAT THEY WERE DOING/SAYING IS SIN; AND THEY HAVE COME TO THE FULLNESS OF THAT SIN TILL THEY HAVE A "BELLY FULL" AND HATE THE SIN TO THE POINT OF NEVER DESIRING TO GO BACK TO THE PIG STY OR RETURN TO THE VOMIT AGAIN.