1. Stephen_in_SC
   Inactive

   In our extremely heated political climate, I find an incredible divide even among 'believers' as to where our support should lie politically.

   Here in America (Canada/USA) the ideological differences between liberalism, even progressivism entering well into socialism, and conservatism, is growing wider day by day.
   In Canada, Conservative writers are hounded publicly and privately by the left, speakers such as Ann Coulter are threatened by left wing political partisans and their freedom of speech squelched in the name of political correctness.
   In the US, we've seen State Capitols overtaken by unions with overt and outright threats against anyone not agreeing with them or supporting them, and the Tea party supporters branded racist, with the support of the Alphabet left leaning media, where none is found.

   I know the UK just elected a Conservative gov't, finally replacing Labor, but I'm not too sure of the political set up of either NZ or Australia. Maybe someone can share that with us.

   My point of this thread, is as Believers in the Lord, should we be supporting Liberalism or Conservatism; BASED on HIS word only; which can be either 'plainly read' or 'spiritually led'.
   I'll lead off on my response and look forward to the others.

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. Stephen_in_SC
   Inactive

   I am a capital C Conservative. I believe in achieving one's earthly dreams through hard work, determination and drive, within the law obviously, but with as little interference by the gov't as possible. LIBERTY
   I believe in low taxes to foster a healthy economic climate to create jobs and opportunities for others. I believe in entrepeneurship, the free market and capitalism where every man succeeds for fails on their own account or as the market demands.
   I do not believe in liberalism, which is not a type of Gov't that is supported in Gods word, where gov'ts exist to control the individuals life, raise taxes for social programs, create 'social justice' or tries to control the individual Liberties of a free man.
   The fall of man in the Garden is a wonderful example of how liberalism comes against the Lords Gov't, but I'd like to hear what your opinions may be on this subject.
   I ask this, because the One World order will be a socialist world gov't.

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. MathewMac
   Member

   I would say Stephen That you forgot a Big point, That our Freedom didn't come from man but from God. Our founding documents were all from God fearing puritans. God given rights ! and its only when you bring Liberalism into the land is when you want freedom from God by worshipping satan. I live in Canada and in just a short time i've seen more liberalism in the land and a mockery of God. Thats why the sheep are on the right while the goats on the left.

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. Stephen_in_SC
   Inactive

   Being a Canadian myself Mathew but happily living in the Deep South now; I know of the liberalism you speak of up there and how it destroyed a once proud and upright nation.
   For those that may not be aware, the Cdn Constitution in the pre-amble, states, 'For God shall have Dominion' over the land and is written IN STONE, above the central arch of the Peace Tower of the Cdn Capitol Building, "For God shall have Dominion from Sea to Sea", taken from Psalms 72:8.
   Here in the US, we know the motto of this country is, "In God We Trust" and in the Declaration of Independance, it clearly states, although NObama loves to ignore the plainly read truth, that our rights are derived from our creator. No mincing words on that.

   So do you think then that conservatism is more inline with the word of God than liberalism Mathew? What of believers who vote 'liberal'?

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. MathewMac
   Member

   Well I like to ask them what they Believe. Most people like to have that whole liberal white washed look but be conservative in side when you break it down to principle. :)
   I don't think their going to hell, They should have a little wack though :)
   The thing is I believe in truth and liberals believe in religion. Multiculturalism was what destroyed solomon. God warned him to. How stupid we are to not listen as well. God also set a immigration policy in place for ancient Isreal. They are to be circumcised and will honour me in this land. Canada did have that! we gave out bible at the borders and new immigrants swore on truth to enter the land. Does that answer your question...?

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. Stephen_in_SC
   Inactive

   Awesome!! Excellent answer sir and you brought in a part of the equation many don't consider in modern society. 'multi-culturalism' and it's cancer like properties and you neatly tied that together with Solomons downfall.

   I've often wondered why people hold Solomon in such high esteem when he screwed up bigtime. lol

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. diemooieen
   Inactive

   Quote:
   I believe in achieving one's earthly dreams through hard work,

   Me:
   Sorry, am I missing something? Don't you believe in us all giving up working for money? Don't you believe in a Christian communism, where all give up all they have for the cause?
   Why complain about taxes if you believe Christians shouldn't work for money?

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. Stephen_in_SC
   Inactive

   You really have a a problem with me don't you diemooieen. Are you this bitter all the time or am I taking your posts wrongly in trying to define your tone correctly?

   "Don't you believe in us all giving up working for money?"
   Well that's the wonderful thing about Liberty Diemooieen. You get to choose what's best for you. If you choose to work on a barter type system, that's your business and no one elses. If I choose to use my talent in working for a soon to be worthless fiat currency, then that's my right to choose in Liberty how I desire to live.
   I say this of course, seeking what the Lord has for me, as His will reigns supreme in my life over what I want. Liberty gives you choices and no gov't should tell you otherwise.
   Whereas in liberalism, bartering in frowned upon because no taxes are paid to support their extravagent social programs. Gov't does have a role to play, but it should be absolutely minimized.

   "Don't you believe in a Christian communism, where all give up all they have for the cause?"
   Christian Communism? That's an oxymoron isn't it? LOL. Please tell me you're not serious about communism and someone who 'follows the Lord' in the same breath. No Liberty in communism of any form. I'm sure you're going to quote something in Acts to try to support this notion?

   "Why complain about taxes if you believe Christians shouldn't work for money?"
   How do you come to this question when that isn't even close to what I was saying. I never said believers shouldn't work for money...where did that assumption come from?

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. ackermv
   Member

   Did Jesus intend for a Theocracy to be set up to rule the Earth or a country before he comes back for the Millennial reign? If so, why didn't he do it before he left? The US and the Western Hemisphere has tried to do this and what has History shown us. That it is no different than any other religion that wants to gain power and uses the weapons of the world to protect itself and grow it's allegiance. What has been done in the name of Christ to build Nations? The Kingdom that Christ ushered in and is currently building cannot be seen with the naked eye. May our understanding be broadend and may our eyes be opened to see. The culmination of man is coming to a close and hearts are being revealed. Lord have mercy on us.

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. Stephen_in_SC
    Inactive

    ackermv- I hope you didn't read in that I was pushing for a Theocracy, because that isn't what I was intending to say nor is it acceptable to me either.
    With regards to 'religion', a man made creation and not of the Lord Himself, we've never seen a theocracy in America (Canada/USA) but we have had our values and until recently, our laws, based on the values and truth of His word without a theocratic gov't.
    All I was saying was that our original laws & values were solidly based on His Word that in & of itself, provides the Liberty of God's Laws, for mankind. I believe from what the Lord says in His word, that the Millenial Kingdom will be just that; a 1,000 yr rule under Liberty which His laws provide. But even then, it couldn't be correctly called a 'theocracy' because no religion is involved and His truth isn't theology; but just the truth, the whole truth & nothin but the truth.

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. Stephen_in_SC
    Inactive

    ackermv- I hope you didn't read in that I was pushing for a Theocracy, because that isn't what I was intending to say nor is it acceptable to me either.
    With regards to 'religion', a man made creation and not of the Lord Himself, we've never seen a theocracy in America (Canada/USA) but we have had our values and until recently, our laws, based on the values and truth of His word without a theocratic gov't.
    All I was saying was that our original laws & values were solidly based on His Word that in & of itself, provides the Liberty of God's Laws, for mankind. I believe from what the Lord says in His word, that the Millenial Kingdom will be just that; a 1,000 yr rule under Liberty which His laws provide. But even then, it couldn't be correctly called a 'theocracy' because no religion is involved and His truth isn't theology; but just the truth, the whole truth & nothin but the truth.

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. ackermv
    Member

    No, I fully understand what you were saying. You are discussing the natural realities of what we are living in and how Man's Govt may be affected and will change. I was trying to bring up a deeper issue in man and his desire to legislate and Govern in the "name of" and what it creates and where it is headed. The spirit is life and the law is death. It's not more laws telling us what we should or shouldn't do that is needed but the life giving spirit of Christ. Man brings ideals and Christ brings the spirit of Truth which set's man free.

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. Stephen_in_SC
    Inactive

    Ahhhh..I appreciate you clarifying that for me. I've always said that without 'tone' and actually hearing posts and the manner they are typed out, we can lose context and inflection; thus misunderstandings.

    So on that note...well yeah, I would agree with you. :) The whole situation goes back to the garden where man rejected God's Gov't for the lie of Satan. Satan being who he is, likes to 'counterfeit' gov'ts and we have seen throughout mans history, a myriad of different gov'ts and in every single one of them, the 'rights endowed by our Creator' get trampled all the time by man's gov't.
    For example, we really did have Liberty in America for a very long time; although not all those in America were allowed to participate in that Liberty, ie: the black man/woman, which was dealth with during the Civil War.
    Demcracy was called by Winston Churchill I believe, the 'worst kind of gov't created, but better than anything else that has been tried.'...it's heavily paraphrased, but I think the gist of it makes sense.

    And because of this ackermv, you're absolutely correct when you say, "I was trying to bring up a deeper issue in man & his desire to legislate & govern in the 'name of'....'
    Man will always try to rule over man and use whatever means necessary to see this come to fruition.

    Which brings me back to the topic of the thread. Liberalism, which is 'rebellion' to Gods word; really advances the man over man scenario and shackles free men to ideals not shared by others. Should a man be able to keep what he earns (minus fair taxes), or should he be forced to give up what he earns (thru high taxation) and have it re-distributed to others? Liberalism leads to socialism, leading to marxism...and then it just gets worse from there. lol. :)

    Again..thank you very kindly for the response. It cleared it up a lot. :)

    Posted 1 year ago #

14. MathewMac
    Member

    you guys bring up a good point. Isreal was always Governed By God until the hearts of the people wanted a king to rule over them. I can't find it in Samuel where God warns the people what a king will do to you. And it was the perfect picture of mans government God said he will take he will take he will take. I hope someone can post that. It shows socialism for what it is. We will always have man over man until Jesus reigns on earth. I think it was America's role to show the world what a Country looks like when you have God rule the land instead of man or more importantly religion. The natural progression in His word was west, as the east Gate was closed off in the garden.

    Posted 1 year ago #

15. Stephen_in_SC
    Inactive

    I would certainly agree with you on that MMac; and like ancient Israel, we too turned out back on Him and will reap the rewards...or lack of them.
    That passage you were talking about in Samual...it was either 2nd Sam or 1 Kings was it not? I'll have to see if I can find it again; it just after the people where whining and complaining about their situation....again; and they wanted a King like the other nations. Guess they didn't like having a King of Kings @ the helm eh? lol.

    Posted 1 year ago #

16. 4Jesus
    Member

    The scripture that said they had no king is in Judges 17:6; 18;1;19;1 and 21:25.

    then I believe where it talks about God finally giving them a king is in 1Sam. 8.

    their wanting to be like all other nations.

    And by the way, I am apparently what would be considered a religious conservative, after taking some goofy test that put you into several different categories online some time ago. I probably am part conservative and part libertarian, if that makes any sense. At one time I seriously considered changing to libertarian from republican. But decided no, because of wanting to vote in the republican primaries. Plus I don't agree with everything that libertarians believe in either.

    I know that God never intended for the government to take care of the poor & etc. at all. But intended for the church to do so. But now that the government supposedly do, the church doesn't. Well many of them don't that is. That I know for a fact.

    Love,
    Sandy

    Posted 1 year ago #

17. Stephen_in_SC
    Inactive

    Thanks Sandy!! I should have recalled that...I just studied it a couple of weeks ago. lol.

    I completely understand your split between Conservative & Libertarian and why you would need to maintain your right to vote in the GOP Primaries. I have some libertarian leanings myself and like you, don't agree with some of their political ideology. What I do know however, at least here in the good ol US of A, is if we don't get our stuff together soon and put forward an amazing candidate for President, we're going to end up splitting the vote and have Barry Soetoro for another 4 yrs. THAT, just can't happen. I'm not sure the country can survive this term, let alone another one.

    Are you not a little more than frustrated 4Jesus, that it seems the current GOP Congress is tinkering away when they could be using a sledgehammer to get some of the messes the previous Congress created, cleaned up?

    Oh boy, they saved a whole $6 BILLION dollars one week, but spent $75 Billion that same week and it was added to the deficit. It just drives me absolutely crazy! lol.

    Posted 1 year ago #

RSS feed for this topic