JOHN THE BAPTIST TV - Revival, Repentance, Reformation - Andrew Strom, Paul Washer, Ray Comfort, Leonard Ravenhill

John The Baptist TV Forum » PROPHETIC / APOSTOLIC MOVEMENT

A Prophet's Ministry

(17 posts) (8 voices)

Started 1 year ago by ValleyAnt
Latest reply from Kathleen

ValleyAnt
Member

This follows on the heels of my last post 'Judge Nothing Prematurely'.

The Bible is clear on what a prophet's ministry is in the overall aspect. Very clear. I can only say this because when the Spirit reveals a thing, He makes it clear: "The entrance of Your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple" (Ps. 119:130).

On this forum, I've seen that many seem to have been negatively affected, traumatized, embittered by bad experiences in the churches where they or/and the Spirit of Jesus Christ was rejected and they witnessed and disapproved of it. Some are called to the prophetic ministry and some to the teaching ministry, but a great deal of their time is spent on warning people on false/bad ministers/ministries. Again, this always grieved me, but I thought, 'I guess I don't understand the prophet's office too well.' Now I know that it grieved me because it's all wrong. Prophets are to minister Life. Fingering the guilty or errant is a ministry of Death (condemnation).

Here's some wisdom: in the OT, prophets were to bring God's words; in the NT, prophets are to bring God's words. Whether the words are mercy or judgment, encouragement or foretelling the future, the words were all God's words. God's Word is ANYTHING God gives a person to speak, because those who speak are to speak as voices for God (1Pet. 4:11).

Jesus tells us to beware of false prophets. To prophesy is to speak for another; therefore, we can see that He is really saying we should beware of those who claim to speak for God but don't. This now includes all ministries as well as non-believers who claim to speak for God. The Bible tells us to watch out, be wary, be watchful of the false and the evil; it does not tell us to watch, follow, or obsess after the false and the evil as so many are doing. We are to be watchmen (who watch out to report or act), not watchdogs (who watch and then follow what they find).

1Cor. 14:23-25, among other passages, shows that the prophet's words or the prophetic word is supposed to be the words of God Himself, because the prophetic word judges the heart, and this is what God's Word also does (Heb. 4:12-13).

A prophet's ministry is speaking the words God gives that person. Not in the OT nor in the NT did God ever set prophets in the Body to focus on warning others about who is false, but every prophet was to bring Life, not minister Death through condemnation. The truth is that so many who focus on all the wrong and the false are really avoiding their own responsibility to live in obedience to God by taking up their own cross and loving and forgiving their fellows as they want others to love and forgive their own sins and shortcomings.

A person truly walking in the prophet's ministry speaks just what God gives him, whether it is judgment or mercy. However, even if his word is judgment, Redemption (a sense of hope, Love, forgiveness) will always follow behind him, because he is not moved/motivated by his love for people nor by his love for God nor by God's Love for him but is carried along and motivated solely and only by God's Faithful (redeeming, restorative) Love for His Creation as it works through him (Heb. 'chesed'; faithful/unfailing Love); because God's motivation (Love) is the only motivation (activity, work) that is perfect (trustworthy, righteous). Everything short of this is imperfect, and anything that is not this is not from and does not originate in God.

Posted 1 year ago #
Kathleen
Member

VA- I have been doing alot of searching and seeking on this topic. Lucinda started a thread on a word spoken by David Wilkerson entitled, "America's Last Call". It was given in 1998 and I had never read it before. When I read it it was like God was confirming some things He has shown me in the past. I will go into greater detail on that thread but something you said above I would like to comment on and that is that the OT prophets spoke God's word, NT prophets speak God's word. I think it is more like the OT prophets speak God's word and the NT prophets receive deep revelation and insight into God's word that has already been spoken and written. I believe that the foundation has already been laid by the Apostles and Prophets with Jesus Christ as the Chief Cornerstone. That is not to say that prophecy has ended, for sure I'm not saying that! But 99.9% of what is called prophecy today is presumption and I'll go out on a limb here and say fortune telling (in a most loving way) which is all about one's self and nothing at all to do with the Most High God...at least that is what I am perceiving.
God bless you!

Posted 1 year ago #
thos
Member

Well friends,

I have a passion for the prophetic.

The voice of the church is muted in this age.

There are very few exceptions to this.

Where are those who will stand for Truth with Power and Authority?

Bringing judgement to the church.

Bringing judgement to the world.

We have lost this office, I trust it will reappear from faithful 'Nonames' in closets waiting for His time.

We have no shortage of 'Saul's' and few (if any) David's.

Who is bringing a Word of Truth to Kings?

Who is bringing a Word of Truth to the Saul's?

Join me in crying out to Him for His Voice in this age.

The hour is late.

The Lost need to hear him.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

Posted 1 year ago #
ValleyAnt
Member

Kathleen, thanks. In saying 'God's Word', I mention both the logos and rhema-- the written and the still proceeding. OT and NT prophets have the same foundational purpose: hear God and speak His Word. Also, I've wanted to post about the gift of fevelation/the inner anointing. When I'm asked questions, I'm always reminded of our need for the gift of revelation: 'You know all things' (1Jn. 2)..

Carl, I agree with you and see the prophets as my heart brethren. I'm vexed by the opposition they face, especially from the false prophetic and the unopposed accuser and murderer of the prophets in the churches: the Jezebel spirit. But they need our prayers, because the enemy doesn't want God's Word going forth and so attacks prophets and the prophetic. And pray for all prophets without bias. when Jesus came, they were looking for and preferred something else and so missed Him. We experience Him (through prophets, etc.) when we accept those He sends, saying, 'Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord.'

Posted 1 year ago #
kpublbu
Member

Thanks for sharing VA. I find the post most beneficial, being that my knowledge/experience of this aspect of Christ and His church is limited.

I like very much your mention of "ministry of life". Even in 'fingering the guilty', this can be a ministry of life (I'm sure you would agree). But I have seen at least two men get off on this track and lose the "ministry of life" altogether. Let me put it this way:

A prophet is for edification, exhortation and consolation. I see only one word in that description that meets the criteria of "fingering the guilty". The other two have an almost exclusively "positive" function. So with that in mind, I share the following. In 1998 a met a man whose knowledge of the word I tested often over five years while I sought deeper understanding. Even today I believe this man has without doubt the deepest understanding of Scripture I have seen, by miles and miles. HOWEVER, it is all to little avail at this time, being that he engaged in the ministry of death (and for which I seperated myself from his influence in 2003). I used to think, "Well maybe that's just his calling." Fine, that may be true (Jeremiah spoke some pretty hard stuff). But yesterday, after seven years, I went back to look online at a few items that still remain of his writings (he is homeless and cannot update anything, he keeps it online only by the fact that he was helped to do so for a time and now continues to collect change to pay the monthly bill, quite sad, in truth), with interest towards gleaning some insight on one particular topic (Zeph 3 pure language). I found the piece I was looking for, and was amazed at the depth of insight. HOWEVER, it ministered death to me, and not life, even in the minute or two that I perused it. The tone, the spirit, everything was about having the exact right parsing of the most minute aspect of Scripture. And while the understanding was good and true, it could only bear the same fruit as has been born in his own life, which is to make others into walking doctrinal bombs of destruction.

I share this because I have not re-visited this man's writings in seven years, and wanted to share that even though after this time I thought I may have a new perspective, the original assessment which provided my deliverance remains the same: truth without love brings death. I believe it would be exactly akin to, if it were possible (this is just an analogy) having the fleshly body of Jesus without His Spirit inside of it: Something that carnal men would rejoice greatly over, but could only lead to death.

Posted 1 year ago #
Tye
Member

The lost do need to hear him.

But the "church" needs to hear as well.

In my very, very small circle there are voices standing up for truth, but no one seems to want to hear because of what it would do to their own laid out plans....

How do you define: power and authority, what does this really look like?

Posted 1 year ago #
kpublbu
Member

Tye
A very excellent point. Judgment begins at the house of God. Many are busy promising freedom while they themselves are still slaves, and so the problem perpetuates. Don't give the children's bread to the dogs, our own house should be set in order first. A stronger focus on evangelism can come after.

I think there are plenty others besides myself that could answer your last question far better than I, and an answer by the Spirit I expect would be most edifying. But I think from your question you have something to share that would benefit. If so, please feel free brother.

Posted 1 year ago #
risen_again
Member

Evangelism can come after ...
Except evangelism is the command of Jesus, who is the one with true power and authority ('all power and authority has been given to me - therefore GO!). When we focus on reaching out, truly reaching out the internal problems seem so much less.

Posted 1 year ago #
kpublbu
Member

risen_again
I agree, especially with your last statement. I originally did write "Evangelism can come after" and quickly noticed that it should be changed to "a strong focus on evangelism can come after". You are right, amen.

However, I would also ask, if we cannot agree on even the most elementary principles of the word, such as water baptism, what wisdom is it to evangelize a dying world into a house divided? Repentance from pride in doing things our own way, and a recognition of our depraved state as a people is the best place to start.

EDIT: Also please note the command referenced to evangelize:

Matthew 28:19-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

Posted 1 year ago #
risen_again
Member

A Prophet's job is to bring people back to God. Read the OT. It is NOT to bring predictions about the future. It is to say what God will do IF people don't come back to him.

Today, people just read the business section and make 'predictions'. They read end time conspiracies books and make predictions along those same lines.

Funny how many predictions fail and yet people still come with them over and over again. This has nothing to do with the Prophetic.

Posted 1 year ago #
Tye
Member

Actually I was wanting to hear what people think that power and authority actually means and looks like in our day.
It seems like it is always mentioned that it is what we need for today.... anointed preaching with power and authority. What would the results be if this happened? Are we expecting fire to fall from heaven? Plagues to be released on the heathen that don't repent? The physical house shaken? 3000 saved in one day? The dead raised? I am not against it. Do I really know what it means?? I don't know..... What I think would be powerful and anointed would be a group of people that are so sick of their own flesh, their own ideas, their religious systems, their own importance, their titles, their need for a mediator between them and God, and be willing to meet with each other wherever and be willing to sit in prayer and worship to God and wait and wait until He speaks. And let Him build His house just exactly the way He wants to do it. Let His very Spirit be the Head. Let Him lay down the exact details just as He did in the OT. Let Him Lead. If He says meet under the tree, then meet under the tree. Let Him raise up His leaders, His gifts, His ways. Then the full measure of His power will be seen. He said to make disciples, how do we do that unless we ourselves are willing to be truly led by His Spirit in ALL that we do.... And All means ALL even to the last little detail. fyi: I am a female :)

Posted 1 year ago #
Andrew J Horton
Member

I really enjoyed reading your last post Tye... You have a good heart, the Lord will use this and lead you into contact with others who have a good heart, You will work together for Him, You will experience what you long for and what you have described above, Thank You Jesus, Be encouraged, Love in the Lord, Andrew... :-)

Posted 1 year ago #
Onesimus
Member

risen_again said:

Today, people just read the business section and make 'predictions'. They read end time conspiracies books and make predictions along those same lines.

Funny how many predictions fail and yet people still come with them over and over again. This has nothing to do with the Prophetic.

A very astute and accurate observation.

And when they fail there is rarely repentance - just a moving on to spread the next "word" as if the failure was of no consequence.

And yet people are still willing to listen when the "prophet" comes out with more words of "enlightenment".

Posted 1 year ago #
ValleyAnt
Member

K, you rightly said, "The original assessment which provided my deliverance remains the same: truth without love brings death." There are some so wounded that even loving words wound and harm them; only God's rhema words (words that are alive, issuing presently and specifically from the Spirit of Jesus directly to and for the individual) don't have potential to harm them (but this is another topic). It's sad to hear about that man you knew who 'fell off'. I don't know if he was called to the prophetic office, but such ones have it very hard and are at risk to end up on the side of Death.

Tye and Risen seem to agree that there is a need to focus on evangelism for the churches. K said, "Don't give the children's bread to the dogs, our own house should be set in order first... if we cannot agree on even the most elementary principles of the word, such as water baptism, what wisdom is it to evangelize a dying world into a house divided?" First things must remain first. The world is on the Lord's heart (as the Gentiles were when He was physically present), but the Church is first for Him (as Israel was first when He was physically present). Evangelism is secondary; learning and walking in what He has taught us is primary.

Risen, you are right that a prophet's job isn't to predict the future but is more than that, one part of his job description which is to point God's people to obedience to God and practicing justice in the land. There's too much star-gazing presently (though Jesus' return must wait 'till the time of restoration of all things') and not enough of what prophets told us to do: walk in justice (burden-bearing), love, and obedience to God.

Posted 1 year ago #
kpublbu
Member

Praise God for all the good input.

Tye, lol thanks for the gender clarification. It did cross my mind, but I figured I had a 50-50 chance. Apologies :)

As I read your post, I recalled the Andrew Strom's book "Coming Street Revival" I believe he touches on the answer to the question above about power and authority. Now, it has been... almost ten years I think since I read it, so I'm not 100%, but maybe someone here has read it more recently and remembers. Maybe not worth bringing up, idk.

Posted 1 year ago #
Onesimus
Member

"Prophetic or Pathetic Ministry?"
An article by Fred London
http://onefiles.blogspot.com/2011/10/prophetic-or-pathetic-ministry.html

"Could you become a false prophet?"

http://onefiles.blogspot.com/2011/09/could-you-become-false-prophet-or.html

A horrible and shocking thing has happened in the land:
The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?

(Jer 5:30-31)

Posted 1 year ago #
Kathleen
Member

risen_again everything you said deserves to be said again:

A Prophet's job is to bring people back to God. Read the OT. It is NOT to bring predictions about the future. It is to say what God will do IF people don't come back to him.

Today, people just read the business section and make 'predictions'. They read end time conspiracies books and make predictions along those same lines.

Funny how many predictions fail and yet people still come with them over and over again. This has nothing to do with the Prophetic.

God bless you!

Posted 1 year ago #

RSS feed for this topic