1. thos
   Member

   Dear friends,

   The last few weeks have been rocky but potentially fruitful.

   I have finally come to a place of peace about the words bought concerning the shaking in Christchurch and this has solidified my position on natural disasters and the prophetic.

   The Lord spoke to me in a vision about natural disasters a few months ago I got the clear impression that He was saying they were NOT associated with judgement.

   As I waited on Him regarding various words that were circulated, I received no peaceful confirmation or Rhema.

   When I look at this issue in scripture, we are warned of these kinds of events in Matt 24 Mark 13, Luke 21.

   In no instance are these last days events linked with judgement in these scriptures.

   Because of this I relate these events more to the matters recorded on Romans 8 as follows…

   18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.

   19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.

   20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

   21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

   22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

   23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

   24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?

   25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

   To me this passage holds the key to understand the reason for the natural disasters in this late hour.

   Patience is a key foundation of our salvation, patience with our fellow believers, patience with God who is never late.

   I would then have to say that 1 Cor 4:5 applies - in other words I consider these "Words" a matter of passing judgement before the time.

   It has taken me some time to be clear on this, but I have peace about this conclusion finally, it has from this viewpoint been a very fruitful shakeup !!

   This viewpoint raises the issue of the supposed co-relation between the natural disasters in the US and the US policy positions relating to Israel...

   This may very well be a special case because scripture clearly links the failure to bless Israel with serious consequences.

   I need to point out that I do not believe as some do that God is no longer moving in judgement since the cross.
   I see this as unsound scripturally given the judgement met on Ananias and his wife Sapphira and the clear words of judgement on the churches in the seven letters of Revelation.
   Paul also exercised the apostolic right to remove Godly protection from a brother continuing in moral sin.

   Do I believe that He will raise up prophets of judgement in this late hour – most certainly yes.

   Do I expect then to bring His word to Kings – Yes.

   Do I expect Him to bring His word to the lost? Yes in fact this is first priority.

   Do I long for Him to bring effective words of correction to the church?

   Frankly I see the current church system becoming less and less empowered I strongly suspect that he will raise up a vibrant alternative in which His life is unmistakeably present, at which time the remaining true saints will realise they have been sold short and leave. (This is not a prophetic word, just a hunch)

   I think we have heaps to learn about how to weigh words, how to deliver them and who the rightful recipients are.

   Blessings,

   Carl Emerson.

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. Kevin
   Member

   Carl, essentially I see things as you have posted here, except for the following.

   You say above ;

   "I need to point out that I do not believe as some do that God is no longer moving in judgement since the cross."

   Carl , speaking for myself this has never been my position and I don't believe it was Doug A's position either.

   On the thread that is now closed, myself, and I believe others were pointing towards what you have posted here.

   When you asked for clarification on the other thread I left it as there was obviously a misunderstanding as to what Doug A was sharing.
   I can't speak on his behalf, however I witnessed with what he had posted as I witness with what you have posted here.

   God Bless

   Kevin

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. Kathleen
   Member

   Carl, it's interesting I was thinking about something similar in regards to the condition of mankind and the condition of nature just the other day. I remember once a while ago I was doing a study on something, I can't remember what, but I was reading in Leviticus 18 and it talks of a correlation between the sin of mankind and the effect it has on the land (nature). I took it as a physical manifestation of the spiritual consequences of sin. I remember thinking as God revealed these scriptures to me that even the land recognizes the sin of mankind even if mankind doesn't. So when you posted the above scriptures:

   20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

   21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

   22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

   they reminded me, in a way, of Lev 18:25-29

   "For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment on it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants. But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgements and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien, nor the sojourners among you (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled; so that the land will not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people."

   So no wonder:
   19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.

   It is not just the resurrection of the children of God but all creation as well!
   That really blew me away!

   God bless you!

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. zealous
   Member

   Carl,

   So you also reckon GOD has changed. I am afraid, you are greatly mistaken.

   IN CHRIS JESUS

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. thos
   Member

   Hi Zealous,

   I enjoy your provocative claims...

   Tell me...

   How did you draw that conclusion given that it isn't my belief???

   Blessings,

   Carl Emerson.

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. Kevin
   Member

   zealous , it is you who are mistaken, for no one is saying that God has changed.

   As I said to you on the other thread, you are free to think what you want about what other people are sharing.

   IMO the fruit of the Spirit is lacking in some of the posts I have seen from you.

   The body of Christ has more parts than you alone.

   One of the challenges the true body faces is to recognize all the different parts that make up the whole of the body.

   This was what I shared with you on the other thread.

   God bless

   Kevin

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. zealous
   Member

   Kevin,

   I take it gladly what you wrote, knowing from who it came.

   Blessings to all.

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. thos
   Member

   Dear Brothers,

   let's keep this thread on topic...

   Blessya's

   Carl Emerson.

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. poppie
   Member

   How interesting.

   Genesis 3:17
   Then to Adam he said,'because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying,' you shall not eat from it'; cursed is the ground because of you':

   Because of Adams' sin the ground was cursed and judgement passed.

   Then Jesus came, and himself became accursed for us, thus providing an escape for those who admitted sin and repented of their ways.

   But, the land remained accursed and yet groans under judgement.

   So, the thistles still flourish, and does he still use the previous judgement over the land to curse those who curse Israel ( as he said that he would ).
   Or alternatively, does he equally bless those that bless Israel with peace and prosperity, ie absence of disasters,...and catastrophy for those that curse Israel.

   And yet...

   Jesus said in Luke 13:4

   'Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?'
   So it doesn't always apply.

   Isaiah 35, says that,

   The desert and the parched land will be glad
   the wilderness will rejoice and blossom.
   Like the crocus, it will burst into bloom;
   it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy....

   They will see the glory of the Lord,
   the splendour of our God.

   At his return, the judgement is removed.

   So....

   Taken in context, disaster and catastrophy could be seen as judgement.

   As he hasn't yet returned.

   God Bless....poppie

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. Kevin
    Member

    Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
    Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
    Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    The old covenant and the new covenant run side by side through to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    The consequences of the blessings and curses from the OT law as outlined in Deut are seen on this earth. These are from God.

    We also have afflictions that can come from the enemy of Christ.

    We have the new covenant through Christ Jesus our Lord which released us from the curses and charges that were against us under the old law.

    All of this is playing out at the same time which is why the sermon on the mount can be misunderstood.
    Jesus was preaching to the Jews whom He knew would reject Him and stay under the law, as do all who reject our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Those who come under the new agreement have passed from death to life through Christ Jesus our Lord, however we all live in a dying world that will pass away, a world that is bound under the consequences of the OT law. A world in which satan knows his time is short .

    So when we are faced with "natural" disasters it is important to seek revelation from our Lord Jesus Christ, least we become deceived by our adversary who loves to create confusion and division and turn people against one another and against God .

    In the love of our Lord Jesus Christ

    Kevin

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. Bruce Skelton
    Member

    Hi.
    Was the destroying of Sodom and Gomorrah a natural disaster, or was it judgment?
    Man’s sin causes God’s wrath to come upon a city or nation. The city of Christchurch had just held a homosexual parade on Saint Valentine’s day,a week before the February quake, which the Prime Minister attended. God cannot tolerate sodomy.
    In Christ,
    Bruce.

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. zealous
    Member

    Carl and others,

    I read your post again and saw that I was too swift to respond.

    Carl, I did not read it thoroughly.

    I humbly apologise. Forgive me, my fault.

    My conclusion was absurd. Sorry again.

    GOD bless you.

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. zealous
    Member

    Kevin, you wrote;

    "IMO the fruit of the Spirit is lacking in some of the posts I have seen from you.

    The body of Christ has more parts than you alone."

    May be your personal attack on me was justified, but you are forgiven.

    In Christ Jesus

    Posted 1 year ago #

14. harvestisripe
    Member

    Does God change? - NO - He is the same yesterday - today and forever he changes - Not!

    God said if he did not judge the sinful nations he would have to repent to Sodom and Gehmorah - looking at this very statement from God - he also said in the end of days we would become as Sodom and Ghemorah - SURELY JUDGEMENT IS COMING - and he has been warnig the nations time and time again!

    did not God say - "I willbless those whom Bless Israel and curse those whom curse Israel??? Yes - yes - Yes! he did and much of what we have seen in America the leading Nation to split Israel and Jerusalem - have been judged and warned so much - that as he had always done - after so much warning time and time again - He turns that nation over to her enemy - America has been turned over to her enemy - within and the judgements continue - no longer warnings - but judgements.

    what teh problem is I find is we want to change the Old testiment god to a God that - God is good everyday - and make his who he is NOT!

    YES HE IS LOVING - YES HE IS MORE THAN GOOD - YES HE IS LONG SUFFERING IN HIS JUDGEMENT IS ALWAYS MERCY - BUT - He changes not and when he has had enough Judgement turns to he lifting his hand off of that nation - and it is then turned over to its enemies and held captive.

    God will not be mocked!

    Here is just an example if one goes back and looks - there is absolutely NO Doubt that this nation that continually curses Israel has been under the judgement of God.

    PLEASE DO TAKE TIME TO READ IT ALL - then and only then can we truely have a greated understanding of God says what he means and means what he says - and he does judge Nations.

    God help us if Jerusalem is split - this country itself USA will be split in fact it is already happening and under a curse.

    THIS IS VERY LONG - PLEASE READ.

    WILL POST IN A MINUTE PLEASE GIVE ME A FEW MINUTES TO POST THIS HERE.

    God bless, Lynn

    Posted 1 year ago #

15. harvestisripe
    Member

    Thanks for waiting - Prayerfully read this.
    Blessings, lynn

    http://www.av1611.org/katrina.html - 55k - Cached

    Posted 1 year ago #

16. Averyl
    Member

    As this topic is on prophecy, I recommend to NZ members the 6 part series Derek Prince is teaching on Shine TV at 6.30 a.m. Thursdays.

    Posted 1 year ago #

17. Mum
    Member

    I agree with what you're putting forth, Thos. I see it as being birth pangs too.

    Don't know if I can express it very well, but sometimes the emphasis on judgment reminds me of how children were raised in the Victorian era, sort of constantly under threat from authorities even to the point of telling them actual myths of what dire things would happen if they got out of line. We would call this abusive today, and I have to agree, perhaps well-intentioned sometimes and yet done out of ignorance.

    I still need a lot more revelation about the whole judgment issue, however it is true that the earth and mankind have already been under judgment since we were thrown out of the Garden and all creation became subject to bondage to death, and the earth began "wearing out like a garment". (hence the increase in natural disasters?) The challenge is to find grace to lift us out of judgment and to "remain in His kindness, remain in His love" and then witness that to others so that they too can be lifted out of judgment if they are willing. As ignorant children we serve out of fear, and how we are hounded by the accuser - but as mature spiritual people I believe we will grow to serve out of love for our Father and understanding of what is wise and good, just as we grow and mature in the natural sense.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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