1. Gziz Frique
   Member

   Jesus did not allow the rich man's request for having his family on earth to be warned about hell. We do see instances where people claim to have been in hell and then returning with a message just to forgive.

   My question is whom to believe - Jesus or the NDE travellers? I also once died and saw things but it differs from these who say "forgive, regardless."

   Let us sit at the feet of Jesus and hear what He says:
   Matthew 18:15 “If your brother sins against you, go, show him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained back your brother.
   Matthew 18:16 But if he doesn’t listen, take one or two more with you, that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
   Matthew 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembly. If he refuses to hear the assembly also, let him be to you as a Gentile or a tax collector.
   Matthew 18:18 Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in heaven.

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. Mum
   Member

   Brother, I hear what you're saying, and hope you won't mind if I offer this that might resolve the apparent contradiction, that to me the gospel is good news because mankind is already forgiven through the Cross of Christ, it's just that they don't know it and haven't received it until someone tells them the good news and if they are willing to receive that forgiveness, which means they must be made aware of their sin. As far as it is possible with us we are to be at peace with all men, from our side, which means to forgive unconditionally - however, if I understand this rightly, reconciliation is another thing and needs both sides to meet in the middle in order to heal that rift. Between God and man or between man and man. The one in the wrong needs to take responsibility for their wrong and receive the forgiveness that is offered.

   So it hinges on how we see the gospel. Hope that expresses what I'm trying to get across, I'm a little tired at the moment.

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. 4Jesus
   Member

   G are you referring to the idea that we do not have to forgive others for what they do to us wrong, until they ask us for it?

   If you are, then I believe Jesus made it clear that we are to do so whether they do ask. But that does not mean that we then return to having a relationship with them either. It means that we just do not hold unforgiveness for anyone in our hearts at all.

   And IMO that is the same with God. He has already forgiven us, but He will not have a relationhship with us, until we ask Him for forgiveness for what we have done to Him by sinning. Nor will He invite us into His house either.

   Nor should we either.

   But Jesus made it clear we are to walk in forgiveness toward all peoples, no matter what, according to what he said at the end of that Chapter there you just copied in part.

   In other words, always be prepared to forgive them, because of having already done so thru Christ of course. As we cannot do this by ourselves, but He is able to bring it about within our hearts and lives. So that if they ever do come around to admitting their own wrong, then we already have forgiven them, and can therefore offer that forgiveness they seek after immediately. Same as God does for us.

   IMO it is a lie that God is saying it is ok for us to walk in unforgiveness towards others at all.

   But it is also a lie to think we have to continue any relationship with them at all until the matter is resolved too. And that is also what God seems to do as well isn't it?

   Blessings,
   Sandy

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. Mum
   Member

   Amen 4jesus, that's His wisdom i believe you are expressing, speaking of major issues, I think the small things we can just bear with one another in love.

   Maybe there is that we sometimes might need to be freed to be able to forgive, because our sense of justice needs to be satisfied, which I believe is legitimate. So to me knowing that Jesus has forgiven them already from His side frees me to do that, because all sin was laid on Him at the cross. And this doesn't rule out dealing with issues, discipline, rebuke etc. Otherwise how can we obey the instruction to love our enemies and heap hot coals on their head so they can make a fire to warm themselves by. Hope our friend gzizfrique comes back, I'm interested to hear his thoughts.

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. tula
   Member

   These hell visits are all about the £££££££. Jesus drew the veil aside in the 'rich man and lazarus' and I think that is all we need to know. People who go on about Jon Lennon and other famous people are attention grabbers.

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   Dear Tula,

   Yes you are right there are counterfeiters, but please let us know what you think about this 'hell visit':

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgF_iwUNqFU - part 1 of 10 (please watch to the end of part 10 to get the full understanding to let us know how you feel)

   Love Varienne

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. Gziz Frique
   Member

   OK, thanks for so much good teaching. "Tula" means to sleep or be silent, at peace. once can only tula in the non-smoking part of the next world :) :)

   there is more to my question than meets the eye. factor in 1 cor 5:9-13 with that part in matthew 18:15>>. would it be unfair to expect from even a city's xian leaders to come to the table and talk when someone had gone really bad? is four years enough to allow them to come to the table or should i treat a church body of almost 3 million as heathens/ i was trying to follow jesus' instructions and biblical teaching but find even the entire christianity to just remain silent and not resolve the issue at hand?

   see, i have forgiven long ago but how do i now regard the christian faith in my city? its leaders who protect the evil within and slam the sinners outside? where is the integrity of the church?

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. Mum
   Member

   lol, oh I hope I have a reservation in the non-smoking section!

   okay, so you've approached them and tried to reason with them but they don't hear, and so now I believe the scripture says you need to consider them as lost, not as His sheep..Do not be yoked with them..come out and be ye separate, the call is to come out of Babylon (harlot church) so that we will not share in her sins/plagues. And yet love the people in context of sharing the gospel with them (as the Holy Spirit leads), and as Jesus did not shun the prostitutes and tax collectors.. this is how I understand it anyway, hope you find it helpful.

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. Gziz Frique
   Member

   Hi Mum

   We had a 12 yer trek with 36 'stations' along the way. The only address where we were really welcome, was at my wife's cousin who is a tax collector, who shares a property with a pole dancer at a night club.

   This is just reaffirmation of the need to get out of Babylon. My biggest concern is the fact that millions are at risk to get burnt forever, not knowing they are not saved. I am referring especially to the more 'enlightened' new generation churches.

   Thanks for your advice - it is hard to have to give my former habit a skip. the divorce was a messy, painful hacking instead of a neat, clinical cut.

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. Mum
    Member

    Do you feel you can move forward..? It seems by your questions, you actually are doing that, you've hung on like a bulldog fighting for his prey but now are questioning whether it really is time to count it as loss and let it go..? I feel that with everything you've been through, He is preparing you for something..but there is the wilderness, after 'Babylon/Egypt' we all must go through the wilderness, and yet from what I'm reading in your posts it seems like you are already going through that..? and the ravens have been bringing you provisions? At any rate it looks to me like something is being birthed in you brother, it's rough going, like the "transition" phase of childbirth where you feel like you could go crazy, this is His fire. When these things begin to happen, look up because your redemption is drawing nigh - cling to Jesus and keep your eyes on what is being birthed, and soon you will forget the labour pains in the joy of what is being born. But I feel like you could teach me more than I could share with you, I don't want to be presumptuous but just hope to encourage you.

    What the devil means for evil, God means for good, He is sovereign and on His throne, firmly in control, I have found it helpful to try and keep my eyes on what He is doing rather than on what the devil is doing, and rejoice in that. Do you know I rejoice to hear your voice, underneath the frustration if that's the right word, I hear something of Spirit, so already He is doing something wonderful in you.

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. Mum
    Member

    ...with all that you're going through, I wouldn't be surprised if you give birth to a full-grown man!

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. kpublbu
    Member

    Mum
    I am so glad to read your words.

    Gziz Frique
    I have read many of your words and desire and sincerely pray for your comfort. I am grateful to the Lord to read Mum's good words for you, I do hope they provide even a miniscule measure of comfort, as what you are going through is so much. God bless you my brother.

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. Gziz Frique
    Member

    @Mum, I was a spiritually and emotionally mature truly reborn and spirit-filled xian when i set out. my current non-compliance comes from deep wounds and battle scars. and it is only over the past week that the ravens showed up with food. for twelve years i resisted the urge to call upon muslim associates as this would have put jesus to shame. it so happened that a muslim lady who buys from my wife suddenly realized our situation. also the lady who had helped us with our cats realized on the same day our plight. between them. we had food for a week and even veggies, something we never had for a long time. we can only afford fillers, starch. arch!

    we were made poor by god so he could use us to test his people. jer 6:27-end. let me assure you that the only xian who passed the test is my father's eldest sister who is senile and in her nineties.

    i am leading the way others will soon follow.

    i am very disappointed with discussions here as my ethics had always been to have reverence and to obey his minute-to-minute commands. i came to thee pages and was shocked to find supporters of toronto stressing, prosperity teachers, false prophets, even those who defend their speaking to the dead! these are the types god had worked diligently to have kept me away from lest i get the same kundalini infection.

    i told one of the many teenage girls that i had walked through the horrors of high school, that purity is not just a bodily thing but also mental and spiritual. god really had worked hard to keep me aside yet here i come into contact with the very things that causes us to need to leave the church. and there is no control, no banning or blocking. 1 cor 5:9-13 says we must expel the bad ones, the black sheep, the flies in the ointment.

    this site is like a spiritual brothel. where can one find true disciples for friends? nowhere, it seems. a good part of our suffering was to be kept away from bad influences.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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