1. hopefulone
   Member

   Being blown about with every wind of doctrine (Eph 4:14) is the fate of baby Christians who do not develop a sure foundation in Christ through sound teaching and study of the Word of God with the help of the Holy Ghost. A mature believer is exercised in understanding right and wrong (Heb 5:13-14). The apostles were examples of strong and mature men of God. In their writings, which are inspired by God, we see evidence of their keen discernment and condemnation of wicked heresies and behavior with many warnings of false prophets/deceivers that will come into the church to "make merchandise" of it. They also and necessarily teach the way of the Lord in truth very clearly, enumerating the doctrine of Christ, expanding upon it to clarify it to all who listen. And they back up the teaching with their lives, even to death.

   Yet how few really heed the warnings? Naivety is part of being a young Christian, even as it is part of being a child. It is good in regards to learning the evil ways of this world, but dangerous in regards to being led astray into error.

   We do not put children on the battlefront of war with weapons in their hands to fight deadly enemies, do we? Neither does God do this in his kingdom. God grooms men and women to know Him and His Son and the Holy Ghost, so that they will discern what is not of God or Christ or the Spirit. This training requires time. But not all who have lived many years as a Christians are necessarily mature. Unlike the physical body which matures simply with age and basic diet, the spiritual man is not so. They must be exercised in another way to grow. Sound teaching and obedience to Christ are vital, but if these are lacking, a Christian can stay a baby for many years.

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. harvestisripe
   Member

   hopefulone - this is a very important Thread and has so much truth in what you have said.

   Jesus said to his disciples whom knew him and walked with him whom were blessed to have him in their daily midst - WHEN THEY PRIVATELY CAME TO HIM AND SAID PLEASE TELL US WHAT SHALL TAKE PLACE IN THE END OF DAYS.

   JESUS a Prophet - Teacher whom walked in all Power of the Gifts of the five fold ministry - the divine Son of God - God come in the flesh - WARNED!

   DO NOT BE DECEIVED!! He spoke of false prophets and teachers flurishing in the end of days - false christs - and we certainly are witnessing these whom Jesus warned his disciples of and Jesus semed to indicate - EVEN THE ELECT COULD BE DECEIVED.

   WE KNOW THIS IS TRUE FROM MANY OF THE TESTIMONIES WE HAVE HEARD HERE AMONG US.

   I believe when Jesus tells us end of days saints something three times in a row - we need to listen and heed test all things we hear and see by the very word of God and seek always the counsel of the Holy Spirit.

   We must be sensetive to the nudging of the Holy Spirit within us.

   These are these end of days and they are truely full of deceptive prophets and teachers - just as Jesus said we would see and it is growing in greater rapidity - and will continue to do so - so much so even the elect may very well become deceived.

   satan is the master deceiver and he has had since the garden many many hundreds of thousands of years to do so and to deceive Gods people/ Christs sheep.

   Let us love each other enough to come against the darkness that we may encounter and be that guiding light in the darkness even if they hate us - persecute us - they did Jesus and he said they would us also.

   God will never hold us accountable for exposing the darkness if he shows it too us and in fact he would have us to do so if the wolf is in the camp.

   Mostly it would be going to that one first as the Lord would lead one to do by the Holy Spirit.

   However if it is one with a known repatation whom continues to fleece and deceive the sheep and begins to lead them down the wide path towards destruction our whom preaches another gospel - these must be confrontation for the sake of Christs sheep.

   There are a lot of scriptures and examples in Gods word - I pray we spend more time in his word - so that we not be decieved as Jesus warned.

   Of course it would be our greatest hope our greatest goal to see one restored and come into the light. We must never harden our hearts towards them but always ready to pray and hope for their best - perhaps they will see the truth.

   God Bless You All, lynn

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. poppie
   Member

   I do so agree with what has been said here, I have seen deception grow apace and,younger loved ones taken in.

   Those who, for instance, have been deceived by " The Shack " that totally evil and blasphemous writing. They dote on it and will not listen.

   Things like " Reiki " that seeming healing ministry which is a concealed trap for the unwary followers of Christ.
   One is regarded with a jaundiced eye, a spoilsport, if one cries "danger."
   It is very sad.

   Unfortunately it is not just the young ones either, those older, who should know better are also being enticed into mortal danger.

   We must take great care, recently someone,it might have been Jonathon, remarked that if warning bells sound, even faintly, we should pay attention at once.
   Even if at first we do not immediately discern the reason for the unease felt, still, pay attention.
   This is very good advice.

   The need for sound teaching has never been more necessary than nowadays, and the willingness to absorb such, and to accept the discipline that goes along with it; equally necessary.

   Be blessed my brohers and sisters and stay safe in the Lord in these perilous times...poppie

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. hopefulone
   Member

   Thanks for the encouragement, Lynn.

   You made one statement that disagree with, so I thought I would point it out for your comment, as it concerns one doctrine that has caused much unbelief and falling away from God.

   "satan is the master deceiver and he has had since the garden many many hundreds of thousands of years to do so and to deceive Gods people/ Christs sheep."

   Actually there has only been about 6 thousand years since the beginning of creation. You may not have intended this in any bad way, Lynn, but I will use it to bring up a major lie that has spread throughout Christendom: Darwinian Evolution. Contrary to some people's thinking, this is indeed a heresy as opposed to simply a scientific theory. Evolution (as I will call it to save space) is diametrically opposed to the Word of God. The billions of years of death and mutation that are theorized are direct contradiction to the Genesis account of Creation and the fall of man into sin. "Nature" becomes the mindless god who uses something called "natural selection" or "survival of the fittest" to weed out and mutate hundreds of thousands of creatures, starting from a simple bacterium and progressing to man. This theory is so full of logical loopholes and contradictions of reality and true science that it is nearly laughable, were it not so insidious to the minds of the unlearned Christian. The danger it poses and the millions who have been deceived by it is nearly overlooked by most Christians who think this is some type of "scientific" argument. It is false science and has profited no one in any real science field, but it has wasted millions of man-hours and destroyed countless lives devoted to its religion.

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. hopefulone
   Member

   Evolution is a dangerous heresy and must be vehemently opposed by all true Christians. The teachings about the earth being billions of years old is one of the main reasons teenagers turn away from God. They are smart enough to realize that God and evolution cannot both be true, but because we put our kids in atheistic schools in America, kids think silent parents must go along with evolution as taught in science classes. Do not be silent about this, Christian parent. Learn the truth, fear God, and depart from evil thinking. Teach your children the truth and learn why evolution is so completely and utterly false. We must hold up the Word of God as truth in spite of what anyone, including and especially, what atheistic or ungodly scientists teach.

   Let me suggest http://www.ICR.org

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. TyronePalmer
   Member

   Matthew 24:23-25

   “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand."

   Jesus said that the false christs and false prophets who will rise up will show great signs and wonders to deceive IF possible, even the elect.

   Jesus did not say the elect WOULD BE deceived by the false christs and prophets who will show these great signs and wonders.

   What is a great sign and wonder?

   The Book of Revelation tells us that the false prophet (Beast from the earth) will work with the man of lawlessness (Beast from the Sea) and he will call down fire from heaven. That is definitely a great sign!

   Revelation 13:11-14

   "Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived."

   According to Daniel there will be some end time saints who
   will fall that they may be refined, purified and made white.

   Daniel 11:35

   "And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time."

   We must hold to the teachings of Jesus Christ, if we do then we will know the truth and the truth will make us free. If anyone comes preaching something that Jesus did not preach or teach then we are to avoid that man or woman.

   If they come doing great signs and wonders but do not have the fruits of the Spirit, or hold to the teachings of Jesus then we are to avoid them and shouldn't listen to a word they say.

   Jesus told His disciples that every plant the Father has not planted will be uprooted.

   Matthew 15:10-14

   "When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.” Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

   Lynn - Is the earth really 'many many hundreds of thousands of years old?'

   Blessings,
   Tyrone

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. Ken1
   Member

   The six days of creation are a "type" of the six thousand years of "Man" The seventh day of rest is a "type" of the millenium.

   2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

   We are not told very much in scripture about the time before Adam (Isa 14) and in (Rev 20) we are not told very much about the time after the millenium.

   Eph 2:7 That in the "ages" (Aions) to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

   Hopefulone i take your point on the 6000 years.

   Blessings.

   Ken1.

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. harvestisripe
   Member

   Comment Lynn:
   "satan is the master deceiver and he has had since the garden many many hundreds of thousands of years to do so and to deceive Gods people/ Christs sheep."

   Yes Hopefulone - thanks - you are right - that should say he has had several thousand years and I too believe it is six some thousand - my mistake.
   God Bless, Lynn

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. 4Jesus
   Member

   I wonder though, does it say the elect can be deceived? I tend to say no. Because of what it does say there in Mt. 24;22. Maybe for a while, but to the point of falling away, I see that as saying no, the elect cannot be deceived to the point of losing their salvation, because of God keeping them.

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. Ken1
    Member

    NP Lynn, it seems we all "almost" posted at the same time :)

    Blessings.

    Ken1.

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. harvestisripe
    Member

    Guys I say this in love because it is so important - if one says they can never be deceived - they already are.

    Jesus told his disciples three times - DO NOT BE DECEIVED AND THIS APPLIED TO HIS SAINTS ALSO TODAY BECAUSE HE SAID MANY WOULD FALL AWAY IN THE END OF DAYS - Jesus was telling his disciples what the end of days would be like in his Olivet disclosure.

    Paul also states this in Timothy and in Hebrews 6 and 10 and in 2 Thesalonians2 many are going to be deceived and fall away please to teach differantly is not bibical according to the word of God.
    I believe the word - IF - means it is possible otherwords I believe Jesus would have said it to be impossible for the saint to be deceived.

    God Bless, Lynn

    PS blessings to you to Ken

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. harvestisripe
    Member

    I believe this to be the most serious warning from Paul - this one he speaks of was a spirit filled saint of God.

    HEBREWS 6
    4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,

    5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come

    6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. hopefulone
    Member

    "With God, nothing shall be impossible." A Christian minister can help many souls back to Jesus who have strayed and backslidden, but the one who has turned away from God who knew the Lord, only the Lord can bring back. The KJV reads a bit different, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Heb 6:4-6 (KJV) Note that Paul does not say it is impossible for them to repent, but "to renew them again unto repentance." I only mention this because the Scriptures are clear about Christ being able to save to the uttermost. His blood was shed to cover every sin, so it is not the Lord who will be the cause of any soul not being able to find mercy. In hardening one's heart to God and continuing in disobedience, those who were once believers can perish.

    As to the elect being deceived; so many that have been born again (the elect of God), have fallen into deception. There are examples in Scripture and all around us, if not our own selves. Those who think they cannot be deceived, as Lynn has say, already are.

    Posted 1 year ago #

14. hopefulone
    Member

    The once saved, always saved doctrine of Baptists is clearly a heresy that causes great confusion. Many young Christians fall away from the Lord and get in a bad condition and they are not headed to heaven. A state of disobedience and living in sin is a dangerous place. Let no one think they will end up in heaven if they continue in sin, no matter how glorious their conversion. One only need read Ezekiel, wherein the Lord clearly states that if a righteous man turn from his righteousness and begin to live in sin and wickedness, all his righteousness will be forgotten and he will die in his sin if he fails to repent.

    That being said, there is a place of security in following Jesus Christ. As Peter tells us, "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."
    2 Peter 1:5-11 (KJV) As we follow on with Jesus, there is great assurance and peace. A young Christian, however, is in grave danger, should they stray from the path into heresy or back to sin. All of us must become established in the faith to find full assurance.

    Posted 1 year ago #

15. hopefulone
    Member

    In another thread closed just a day after opening about "Finney: Great Evangelist or False Prophet?" we see the typical response to exposed heresy: Fear. Not fear of God and his holy word, but fear of potentially defaming one thought to be a good man and putting a kind verdict upon one not fully examined, except by the reading of his own works.

    Let me urge you to read the following from this site:
    http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/finney.htm

    Then read the entire page with Finney quotes and explanation on Finney's doctrine and results, including his early ministry and beliefs, which had already rejected most basic doctrines of the reformers, that are little known by those who only have read the "glorious" accounts by Finney and his supporters.

    "Charles Grandison Finney was a heretic. That language is not too strong. Though he excelled at cloaking his opinions in ambiguous language and biblical-sounding expressions, his views were almost pure Pelagianism. The arguments he employed to sustain those views were nearly always rationalistic and philosophical, not biblical. To canonize this man as an evangelical hero is to ignore the facts of what he stood for.
    Don't be duped by sanitized 20th-century editions of Finney's works. Read the "Complete and Newly Expanded" 1878 edition of Finney's Systematic Theology, recently published by Bethany house Publishers (the unabridged 1878 version with a couple of Finney's later lectures added). This volume shows the real character of Finney's doctrine. (The unabridged 1851 version is now online, and it also exposes Finney's errors in language not toned down by later redactors.) By no stretch of the imagination does Finney deserve to be regarded as an evangelical. By corrupting the doctrine of justification by faith; by denying the doctrines of original sin and total depravity; by minimizing the sovereignty of God while enthroning the power of the human will; and above all, by undermining the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, Finney filled the bloodstream of American evangelicalism with poisons that have kept the movement maimed even to this day.
    That's why you'll find Finney listed in the "Really Bad Theology" category of my bookmarks, and in the "Unorthodox" wing of The Hall of Church History."

    Posted 1 year ago #

16. hopefulone
    Member

    http://www.gospeltruth.net/1851Sys_Theo/index1851st.htm

    Here you may find online Finney's Systematic Theology. He did not come to these conclusions later in life, but embraced them from the beginning. His supposed conversion was not a conversion to faith in Christ, but something altogether more insidious: the beginnings of a false convert and false prophet.

    Failure to examine the full truth of such men and failure to receive the love of the truth will be your downfall, oh professing Christian. How will you escape the deception and errors of our time if you fail to examine the basis for the apostasy of this generation, seeded in the heresies of the past perpetuated by modern evangelists?

    Posted 1 year ago #

17. hopefulone
    Member

    "The fear of man bringeth a snare..."
    the Scripture tells us in Prov 29:25. Christ told us plainly, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt 10:28 (KJV)

    How many of you fear man? Are you afraid of those men in authority? Proper respect is Biblical and good, but fear brings a snare. It puts restraints upon you to seek the truth or to obey the Holy Ghost as he tells you what to do.

    Fear is the enemy of a Christian and the tool of Satan. It is the soggy ground in the soul that grows the seeds of unbelief in God and his truth. If you give place to it, you will stumble. It is truly a devastating sin that will cripple the soul. It is a source of all manner of equivocation and compromise within the modern church.

    Listen to the words of our Lord regarding the fearful: "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
    Rev 21:8 (KJV)

    Fear is the immediate result of sin. Hear the words of Adam in the garden: "I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid..." Gen 3:10 (KJV)
    One will not long be a Christian who gives in to this faith weakening and corrupting sin and its accompanying unbelief.

    We are commanded to the contrary: "Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee." Deut 31:6 (KJV) "Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation." Isaiah 12:2 (KJV) "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isaiah 44:8 (KJV)
    And the wonderful words of our Lord as he came to his disciples walking on the sea, "Be of good cheer: it is I; be not afraid." Mark 6:50 (KJV) and at the last supper: "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." John 14:27 (KJV)

    Christ is the giver of peace. He is the Prince of Peace! Paul reminds Timothy and us of this great truth: "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." 2 Tim 1:7 (KJV)

    So, you who are brethren and you who would be, let not fear keep you from discovering the truth and looking at any matter relating to faith or duty. The God of truth speaks plainly to us, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord" Isaiah 1:18 (KJV) The Lord is not against reason and searching out matters. He is the God of wisdom and knowledge. Only let Him be your guide and don't attempt it without his aid. Those that seek with all their heart will find. Let them also ask and knock at the door of Him who gives liberally and upbraids not.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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