1. 4Jesus
   Member

   Lynn I named you after reading what you did write about what you do believe parts of Hebrews chapter 6 is saying. Hope you don't mind my doing so either. But no doubt most others also would agree with you. I once would have said amen to it myself, until someone asked me to seriously look again at what it is saying. So I am going to ask others to do the same as my very good friend asked me to do also.

   To be fair, not taking anything out of context of what is written in this chapter in Hebrews, I am going to copy all of it. Because it is important that one read all of it. But I especially want to call attention to what it says in verse 3. Because this is the verse that mainly deals with what God does, and not what we ourselves do, or are told to do. And therefore is probably the most important verse, for such a short one that we need to consider more once we are on that foundation listed in verses 1-2 more than any other one in the rest of that entire chapter. And I am saying this because once I did see the enormity of what that verse says there, I began to see that what I had been taught to believe for years, and did believe, was not quite as true anymore as I had thought it was. And it is because of what it does say totally in verse 3. So please, when you consider what I am going to say here, ponder on the enormity of what that verse alone is actually saying to you. As that is what I finally did, seeing that I had been taught wrong as I see it today after all, after a good friend in Christ finally did point this out to me.

   But I am going to C&P the entire chapter. Because I believe we need to read all of it as well. And maybe even some before and after.

   Hebr. 6:
   1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

   2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

   3And this will we do, if God permit.

   4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

   5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

   6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

   7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

   8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

   9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

   10For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

   11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

   12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

   13For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

   14Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

   15And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

   16For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

   17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

   18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

   19Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

   20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

   Now first of all, I was taught that once we did continue on, yet later fell away after doing so, that what is written mainly in verses 4-6 happened, we would of course, be lost forever from then on. And that is true, if we did do so. But I have a great big question to ask all of you now.

   Do you honestly think that God does not know when we are ready to continue on into anything first of all? And if your answer is yes, He would know once we are abiding in Him. Then do you honestly believe He is going to allow anyone of us to do so? Because if your answer is no, what the writer is saying there is you don't have to worry about continuing on into anything at all at that point, because if God is not going to let you do anything at that point that would cause you to lose your salvation at all. And that is what IMO it is saying there because of what it does say in verse 3.

   And those that believe that is warning to someone because they have continued on, God allowing them to do so are wrong. But instead what it is saying is don't worry. Because you aint going to continue on into anything until God tells you it is ok.

   Meaning my friends, God is in control here, not us, as we would like to think we are.

   And those that are not on the foundational principles of Christ yet are not going anywhere either, until they are on them. Because it is impossible for those that are not to do so too.

   Meaning God is in control of a lot more than you might think He is, as I see it today.

   And what the lie we are told that someone is able to do this on their own, is just that a lie, to cause us to be dependent upon ourselves in the first place. Which doens't work either. Not that we do not have to obey His Word either, as obedience to HIS Word in faith is what is going to get us on that rock to begin with. As well as obedience thereafter to continue on in faith from there on. But we aint going anywhere until God says we can either. And that little ole verse there that has few words, means a lot more than we probably realize. I know for years I didn't see it until this friend encouraged me to look and consider the enormity of what it is saying. And therefore I hope many of you do too.

   Love,
   Sandy

   Posted 5 months ago #

2. Mum
   Member

   Awesome, 4Jesus, I see it! IF God permits. Thank you for sharing that...He is such a true and wise shepherd of our souls!

   Posted 5 months ago #

3. wholeheart
   Member

   Please consider...

   To understand Hebrews chapter 6, we must understand the context which begins in chapter 5.

   Chapter 5, begins speaking of God's design in Christ and Christ's fulfillment of that plan, as being are great and perfect High Priest the author of eternal salvation for all who obey Him. Then it goes on to say that because they are dull of hearing and remained like babes needing milk, they were in need again to have the foundational principles of God taught to them again. The writer states that they should now be teachers and eating meat, skilled in the Word of Righteousness and through practice able to discern what is good and evil.

   Chapter 6, THEREFORE, leaving the elementary principles of Christ, not laying again the foundations of repentance from dead works and faith towards God, baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection from the dead and eternal judgment. (mind you...which are termed elementary principles:) which most of the church today has little knowledge of)

   The point being-- let us go on to perfection, (COMPLETENESS--SPIRITUAL MATURITY).

   Then the point you were making in verse 3, and this we will do if God permits. Then it states for it is impossible...please read.

   I believe the Word and Holy Spirit is saying here that God does not permit us to go beyond what we have already practiced in out lives. This practice enables us to grow in the knowledge of God and the Faith. If we become complacent we will always digress. Abiding in Jesus is like eating manna it takes a complete daily full participation on our part.

   My understanding is that it is up to us whether or not we proceed in our fervor in the Lord which will equip us with every good thing for life and godliness through the knowledge of Christ and His good and precious promises. Because, God knows our hearts He determines how we proceed in this passage of Faith to Faith.

   The warning comes directly after this because our lack of fervency will lead us into complacency which can lead right into sin and the hardening again of our hearts. A place where we will then trample under our feet all that Christ did for us.

   Praise be to Jesus Christ, God the Father and His wonderful Holy Spirit that has imparted to us His divine nature giving us all we need to grow in His grace that leads to spiritual maturity. It is His determination, it is our hearts that must abide and obey. We will see maturity as we walk in Him, for He will teach us all things and we will then have nothing to fear.

   In the Love of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior!

   Posted 5 months ago #

4. wholeheart
   Member

   ‎"Stop looking for guidance if you won't obey orders." - G.W. North

   I thought this was good...

   Posted 5 months ago #

5. harvestisripe
   Member

   SANDY I WILL DO THIS IN TWO PARTS because my new computer for some reason just erased what I typed?

   As we know scripture confirms scripture and we will look closely at this and what is taught today.

   Here is one good example to futher show what Paul was speaking of in Hebrews six.

   Hebrews 10
   26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth,

   there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.
   SAME AS PAUL SAID IN hEBREWS 6 - HE HAS WARNED NOT TWICE

   27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies.

   28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

   29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy,

   and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.
   SOME SAY WHOM HAS ENRAGED THE HOLY SPIRIT

   30 For we know the one who said,

   “I will take revenge.
   I will pay them back.”[h]

   He also said,

   “The Lord will judge his own people.”

   31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

   Dear Sandy I certainly do apreciate you and and your heart of mercy for so many here.

   I do pray you see my passion here concerning all this.

   How your friend looks at this sripture is from Calvinism - which teaches God is in complete control of any and all whom are born again the saint has no choice in the matter of his eternal salvation EVEN THEIR SINS.

   Once saved always saved is what Calvin preached and - ALL - sins have been forgiven - PAST - PRESENT AND ALL FUTURE SINS WHEN ONE BECOMES BORN AGAIN.

   ONE VERY WISE AND GODLY MAN WHOM I TRUELY RESPECT SAID THIS:
   this is teaching a false gospel of heaven without Holiness.

   THIS IS A LIE STRAIGHT FROM THE PIT - for we all
   know that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the unparded sin and this includes lying against the Holy Spirit.

   ALSO HERE IS WHAT PAUL HAS SAID -

   Galations 5
   19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures,

   20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division,

   21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these.

   Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

   1 Corinthians 6
   9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God?

   Don’t fool yourselves.

   Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,

   10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

   Ephesians 5
   1 Imitate God, therefore, in everything you do, because you are his dear children.

   2 Live a life filled with love, following the example of Christ. He loved us[a] and offered himself as a sacrifice for us, a pleasing aroma to God.

   3 Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people.

   4 Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you.

   Instead, let there be thankfulness to God.

   5 You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God.

   For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

   6 Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins,

   for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.

   7 Don’t participate in the things these people do.

   8 For once you were full of darkness, but now you have light from the Lord. So live as people of light!

   9 For this light within you produces only what is good and right and true.

   10 Carefully determine what pleases the Lord.

   11 Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness;

   instead, expose them.

   12 It is shameful even to talk about the things that ungodly people do in secret.

   13 But their evil intentions will be exposed when the light shines on them,

   14 for the light makes everything visible. This is why it is said,

   “Awake, O sleeper,
   rise up from the dead,
   and Christ will give you light.”

   It is very important that one do a study on the Seven Churches - NOTICE THIS WAS WRITTEN TO THE CHURCH THEN AND APPLIES TO THE CHURCH TODAY. It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ to his church for greater understanding concerning these things we speak of here.

   Also Jesus and Paul both show us in scripture that many saints are going to follow after doctrines of demons WIL NO LONGER HAVE SOUND DOCTRINES - and that many saints are going to fall away in these End of Days.

   May we all be found runing the race to the finish only those whom overcome shall see the gates of heaven.

   Let us pray for one another, Blessings - Lynn

   Posted 5 months ago #

6. Meredith
   Member

   I've read through this. Not sure what the discussion was that started it.

   Wholeheart...thank you for what you have posted..it greatly encourages me.

   Lynn...all I can say for myself is this
   Luke 18:10-14

   New International Version (NIV)

   10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

   13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

   14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

   Because according to the way you have laid out scripture there....I am doomed.

   Lord have mercy on me.

   Posted 5 months ago #

7. harvestisripe
   Member

   Dear Meridith - true these are very sobering scriptures and if one continues to live in willful unrepented sin these scriptures do apply to the saint DOING THESE THINGS - It is Gods word that said these things not myself.

   Is not speaking the truth what we would want? FOR THE ONE BOUND BY SIN - while they still have breath? souls are at stake here if we candy coat the true gospel of salvation.

   Even Paul told the Corinthian church he was afraid when he came to them he might find them bound by strife - anger - tempers - disputes gossip just to name a few of what he was sencesing - he speaks he weep over many whom have not repented of these things and included inpurity and immorality.

   These bound in these sins and deception we also should weep over.

   The greatest - PLUMBLINE - is what Jesus said to the seven churches what he hated and what he loved and aproved of the blessing for the obediant and the judgements of disobediance.

   given in his love, Lynn

   Posted 5 months ago #

8. Averyl
   Member

   Romans 3:20, - "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight".

   Romans 4 explains all of this.

   Romans 9:14 - 16, - "Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
   'I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
   So then it IS NOT of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy'."

   God knows our heart & our attitude.

   Romans 7:15 - 25, "O wretched man that I am!" etc..

   Posted 5 months ago #

9. Hope
   Member

   I think the truth is somwhere in the middle. I think God does control our lives as Sandy said, "IF WE LET HIM" I am happy f or God to take control of my life because I keep screwing it up. And often he does, and life changes quite dramatically without our input...like moving house the night of the earthquake. That was him taking control, we didn't look for another house, I didn't even want to move, but we were eased into it not knowing why.

   He has done this many times, and I am happy for him to be in control, he does a better job. So I do feel I also won't be
   doing anything in his name before I am ready. And it is comforting and reassuring.

   But it was my free will that gave him that control, and chooses to continue giving that control. He is the anchor of my soul, sure and steadfast. as it said in verse 19...I trust him, and he has never put me crook.

   Is a beautiful day here, blue sky from horizong to horizon, we are off on our earthquake walk soon, I am going to say goodbye to my city centre, and praise God that he spared so much of it, and was so merciful where it counted, mourn those who lost their lives, and the families that still miss them, and maybe look to a more hopeful future.

   Praise God, and bless you all
   Hope

   Posted 5 months ago #

10. eaglelife
    Member

    Thank you Lynn and Wholeheart

    I have come to the same place as you guys. I believe we have been taught a false gospel. That is why the emerging church currently has so much momentum and so many people are being sucked in. Sin in our lives is deadly. IT IS DEADLY. I believe that is why we need to walk before the LIVING GOD WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. He is a holy God. He doesn't wink at sin as the church has taught in a very indirect and subtle way. The heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it.

    In Deut the word talks about the fear of God as a heart that is not divided. The fear of God is to hate evil, to hate sin, to run from it.Part of my interpretation of the fear of God is to be afraid of sin and what it can do to me. I have been cultivating that truth in my life. It still needs more cultivating. But I see huge changes in the last several years. And at the same time I have to rest in God's love for me and that I am totally dependent on Him to change me. I can do nothing of my self. I BOW BEFORE THE ALMIGHTY GOD AND CRY OUT TO HIM FOR HIS MERCY ON MY LIFE. I PRESS INTO GOD, THROUGH OUT MY DAY, EVERY DAY TILL HE COME AND REIGN ""HIS "" RIGHTEOUSNESS ON ME. I CRY OUT TO GOD TO SHOW ME HOW TO BOW BEFORE HIM.

    Personally, I cry out to God a lot to expose sin in my life that I may have buried or accepted because of a false gospel for so many years. I read the word differently now. I have no pet doctrine. Most of us got born again within a church or bible school that preached a mixture. We grew up in our Christian walk with those lies as part of the fabric of our belief structure. Most of us have grave clothes on that are apart of the apostate church. It has to be because we are all a product of the society and church we have grown up in.

    How do we measure up when we look in the word. Are we walking as Jesus walked with the power and authority and the compassion and obedience. Do we have the holiness of the LIVING GOD. If we don't, WHY????? Because we have grown up on someone elses lies. Because we don't have the fear of God according to the word of God.

    The love of God is ours only through the cross of Jesus Christ, is only through the blood of the Lamb. It is only through the blood covenant. I read a post recently... I think it was Andrew J's. He explained it perfectly. The Lord had showed me this several years back in a revelatory way. When I read Andrew's explanation of it the other day it was exactly as God had showed it to me.

    My time just ran out. I love, love love this conversation. Hopefully I can come back to it.

    I appreciate you all. Love in HIM

    eaglelife

    Posted 5 months ago #

11. Kathleen
    Member

    Hi guys! Just wanted to ask what thread this discussion started on...I've been gone since Thursday. Thanks.
    God bless you!

    Posted 5 months ago #

12. pdaddy
    Member

    I think it's this one:

    "If you do not understand the errors of our times, how will you know the truth?"

    http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/bbpress/topic/2993

    Posted 5 months ago #

13. 4Jesus
    Member

    I have not been able to be around this afternoon to keep up here properly. Which is why I do not start a lot of discussions on here. As we are responsible for them. So I am just going to comment on some of what has been determined so far that what I am saying isn't correct. Beginning with first asking a question as to whether the following scriptures are actually saying there is a point in time when one is OSAS. My saying this not because of what Cavinists teach at all, but because of what it does say about those where the foundation has been laid possibly being OSAS written by Paul in 2 Tim. 2:

    19: NEVERTHELESS THE FOUNDATION OF GOD STANDETH SURE, HAVING THIS SEAL. THE LORD KNOWETH THEM THAT ARE HIS. AND LET EVERY ONE THAT NAMETH THE NAME OF CHRIST DEPART FROM INIQUITY.

    20: BUT IN A GREAT HOUSE THERE ARE NOT ONLY VESSELS OF GOLD AND OF SILVER, BUT ALSO OF WOOD AND OF EARTH; AND SOME TO HONOUR, AND SOME TO DISHONOUR.

    21: IF A MAN THEREFORE PURGE HIMSELF FROM THESE, HE SHALL BE A VESSEL UNTO HONOUR, SANCTIFIED, AND MEET FOR THE MASTER'S USE, AND PREPARED UNTO EVERY GOOD WORK.

    22: FLEE ALSO YOUTHFUL LUSTS: BUT FOLLOW RIGHTEOUSNESS, FAITH, CHARITY, PEACE WITH THEM THAT CALL ONTHE LORD OUR OF A PURE HEART.

    And of course, as I recommended doing read before and after those scriptures of course too.

    And yes susan, the writer of Hebrews, apparenlty knowing these people were on the foundation already, was telling them to stop messing around and begin to become that person of gold or silver fit for the masters use entirely of course.

    And please understand fully, my point is not that one is OSAS as the Calvinists preach at all here either. But once one is on that foundational written in those first two verses in Hebr. 6:1-2 which makes that one born again, as a result of God doing the work within our lives fully at that time we are getting on that foundation, will be OSAS. The problem is, these principles have not been preached to most before at all, therefore leaving most not born again, and therefore not ready to even continue on at all in what is written there. Which is of course, continuing on into the kingdom of God which consists of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost within us first. And then. of course, contiuing on into that righteousness as Christ does permit us to do so, He seeing we are ready to do so from then. Because not one of us can do anything righteous without HIM bringing it forth in our lives at all. That is why Jesus said what he did written in John 7:16-18

    So can you tell me what Paul wrote there does not say once one is on that foundation finally, that they will not be OSAS by what He is saying there guys? Even if they do end up being one of those that are wood and earth?

    And just to add to that one, what about what John says about the one that is born again of the water and the Spirit written again in John chapter 3.

    There really does come a time as I see it, unless somebody can answer to me clearly that those scriptures are not saying what I am saying isn't true. Not Calvinist style either, at all. As I have always known that was not right at all, what he taught. But what God says only. Which is what I have to go by.

    True the writer of Hebrews was telling them they needed to continue on to be that one that is totally pleasing to God entirely as God does permit all of us to do. But that does not mean that those that do end up born again, yet only are walking as someone being wood or earth still will not be saved at all either. Because that one, once they are born again IMO is forever covered in the blood if what Paul wrote there is correct.
    But puleeze, do not get the idea that I am agreeing with what Calvin taught. As I am not. Nor do I believe this person was I am sharing about that did point this out to me either. He was never a Calvinist at all that I know of. In fact at the time I did know him, he attended a pretty doggone strict pentecostal church that I believe some have attended that are, or have been posting here. I did know someone that was once a Calvinist, which asked me to read what they did believe, my mentioning it on here as I recall. But this is not the same person I was talking about when I did share about the Calvinist at all. He just happened to begin to catch the same thing written that I have myself over the years too. the Calvinist I mentioned simply taught me it is good to look at what others do believe was my point when I mentioned him here before. I think it was here I did so anyway. But the two are not the same people at all.

    Meaning I would not be that quick to discount what I am saying here either. As it is certainly something to consider that their might be a time when we are actually promised that eternal life after all. It is just not at the point where Calvinists teach either. Meaning pray about it, and of course, look at the additional scriptures that seems to prove the same thing I am saying there too.

    And again NO the person that asked me to look at that again, was definitely not a Calvinist I was talking to at that time at all.
    Although true, I have known a couple of them over the years that were and probably still are today.

    You meet a lot of people when traveling as the Lord had my husband and I doing a few years ago.

    Love,
    Sandy

    Posted 5 months ago #

14. 4Jesus
    Member

    I need some time to catch up, but want to say, I am not condoning sin at all either eaglelife. And I am sure those that have read much of what I do write, knows that be true.

    My point is that there does come a time when we become totally dependent on God for everything. And that time is once we are born again. And somehow, if I am right about what I am seeing other scriptures to say, there is a time when God will keep us under that blood, whether we do continue on as He desires for all of us to do. But even those will not be walking in sin blatantly and knowingly either of course. If they are, then it John clearly tells us they are not even born again yet, having been delivered from the bondages of sin yet at all.

    But God desires for us to go further than even this. He desires for us to fully give our life over to Him totally. Walking in the gifts He has for each of us to walk in as well. Going to the lost as He sends us to them by his spirit. And some will do these things, and some will not. Those that do are look upon as gold and silver, because they have endured being put on the wheel of God that I believe was written about in Isaiah to do come into the perfect will of God because of continuing to endure and trust HIM thru all things. as well as dieing daily. But there will be those that will not endure that are born again.

    Often it is difficult to put into words what you are saying entirely in a post. In fact, often it is difficult to speak what you believe, people jumping to conclusions about what you are saying, when what is though is not saying what is assumed at all.
    But anyway, suffice it to say, I am not speaking of someone blatantly walking in sin once they are born again either, as some might think.

    Like Meridith seemed to be saying, if what some are saying here, then she is in trouble. I agree. In fact, if what some seem to think, we all are in trouble if truth be known. Unless some of you think you don't have any flesh to be dealt with yet at all?

    I re-read what you said Susan, and I agree with what you did say there. But also believe that some need to know once they are born again, they have the promise of everlasting life too. Just that if they do not continue on, they may get a spanking when they do get there. Or maybe before, for that matter. And perhaps only get one crown too, instead of others if they had continued on as God was going to permit us that are born again to do. Because He isn't going to allow any of us that are born again to continue on into becoming high and lifted up and full of pride at all, becoming that child eventually belonging to leviathan that is written about in Job. Because of doing things we are not ready to do either.

    I still need to go back and read what others have written here yet of course. But so far I have not seen anyone prove what I am saying here is wrong yet anyway.

    I also do not go around broadcasting some of this stuff to everyone either. Even though I know there are those that can read here anyway. Because I know that God wants all of us to be what He desires and has for us to be totally. And to encourage someone to think they can sin, is not what this is about at all. Which true, I should have clarified that from the beginning. As it is true, that most of the church goers are not even born again yet, anyway. That I do know for a fact. So they cannot continue on into anything without walking mostly under the law still.

    Love,
    Sandy

    Posted 5 months ago #

15. 4Jesus
    Member

    Lynn you wrote the following, which I have no problem with at all:
    26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth,

    there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.
    SAME AS PAUL SAID IN hEBREWS 6 - HE HAS WARNED NOT TWICE

    27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies.

    28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

    29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy,

    and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy

    Lynn, that is the reason that until you are born again, you cannot continue on into what is written about in the following verses in chapter 6. Because if you are not ready to do so by having fulfilled what is written fully in verses 1-2, God is not going to let you to continue on into anything at all. Actually this be true, whether you are born again or not.

    Why do you think half of the people that are attending churches today walk in sinfulness, unable to seemingly be able to abstain from it? Because you cannot do so until you are on that rock. Jesus stated this very clearly by what He said there written in Matthew chapter 7 didn't he? Meaning if your not on that foundational rock, you're still sitting on those shifting sands. The reason that most in the churches are doing what they are doing Lynn, is because they are not on the rock they think they are on in the first place.

    To me anymore, it seems so simple. Maybe because I have been on both sides, but have been on the right side for the past 25 years. And have been studying, seeking God why the church is in the shape it is in for those past 25 years. Because I wanted to know the truth about why. Even though I knew I was unable to overcome sin until I myself was born again.

    If you ask someone out there about the kingdom of God that Jesus was talking about in John chapter 3, most will tell you it is speaking of when we do go. When no it is not speaking of going to Heaven, but speaking of an earthly thing. Yet they cannot see it. Why? Well the answer to that is written in John 3:3. Meaning they cannot see the kingdom yet, because they are not born again. And are not going to go anywhere with God behind it, until they do become born again either. Oh they might become excellent students of the letter, but without spiritual understanding at all. Anyone can learn or become a student of the bible. But do they understand what God is saying. Nor will they totally either, until they become born again. Even though true, God speaks to us before we are born again. If He never did do so, then how could we ever come to follow after Him in the first place? But nothing like He speaks to us after we are, as some of you probably know.

    Nope we are not going anywhere with God until He permits us to do so period. And that is so we can still repent, and become one of those that will receive eternal life eventually.

    and yes, those that were born again according to what verses 1-2 says, are ready to continue on, that is true. The writer of Hebrews saying this to them of course. But we are not living in that day today either, are we, where most were brought into that New Birth in the beginning either. We are living in a day when most are not. But still verse three tells you, nobody is going to walk in any righteousness until God does permit us to do so either. as well as nobody is going to continue on into anything else within His kingdom either, until He says ok as well. And the reason for that is what is written in the following verses whether you are born again or not.

    You may think I am committing blasphemy of the Holy Ghost Lynn. Which you have every right to your own opinion of course. That is if that is what you was suggesting by bringing it up at all. But I assure you, I am not doing any such thing. I am simply telling you, and others without Gods permission, your not going or doing anything at all period. Whether we think we are or not.

    And I cannot in anyway see saying this as committing blasphemy ever.

    And yes, Mum, that is exactly what that does mean regarding God guarding our souls for sure. Thanks for seeing that. That is also what I saw too, when someone asked me to read that again carefully. No longer being fearful of doing something wrong anymore, because of seeing that God was even guarding my soul so that I wouldn't do so. To me, it was a wonderful Word, whereas to some it is a fearful Word. To me it meant I could trust in the Lord entirely once I was born again, wheras to some, they cannot trust in the Lord to protect them even after they have become born again.

    love,
    Sandy

    Posted 5 months ago #

16. 4Jesus
    Member

    Just one more thing, this being to eaglelife.

    The heart is not deceitful at all once it has been changed by the Lord. And that was a promise to all believers, today, tomorrow and forever, that follow and serve and abide in Jesus Christ, he abiding within us fully written in EZ. 36:26. But true, until Christ takes over within the heart after the renting of the veil within us written about in 2 Cor. 3:14, yes, that ones heart will remain deceitful until that change does happen finally. That is also why today many cannot walk fully in the love of Christ. And that many of them lose that love, thus losing their very salvation as well, because of following the false prophets of the day according to Mt. chapter 24.

    Even those that have had their spirits cleansed and change, until the heart is also changed by Christ, we can possibly lose even what we did have before, because of ending up eventually quenching the spirit finally as a result of desiring to follow this hardened heart instead.

    But true, until that happens, your right, our hearts are deceitful because of remaining hardened as a result of believing the lies the false prophets do tell us.

    Love,
    Sandy

    Posted 5 months ago #

17. eaglelife
    Member

    Sandy

    I tend to agree with Lynn. Have a look at the 7 churches in revelations.

    Jn 17;3 says Eternal life is KNOWING (intimately) the ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom He sent.I would add my version to say that we know HIM on such an intimate level that we are CONFORMED INTO HIS IMAGE.1Jn says Jesus is eternal life in the first few verses of chapter 1.

    In the church today there are MANY false gods made after the imagination of man, made in his image( man's). If we don't have eternal life then we have eternal death/damnation.

    Overcoming that John talks about to the 7 churches in Revelations
    is being made or conformed in HIS image.

    What does it mean to you....? when Jesus says in revelations that HE won't take your name out of the book of life. HE says this to one of the churches...if they repent HE won't take their name out of the book of life. If HE does that to any one for sure they are eternally dammed.

    The Lord bless you

    Posted 5 months ago #

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