1. Meredith
   Member

   I would like to start off by apologizing to anyone and everyone I may have offended. I will not justify myself..but humbly come and ask for your forgiveness. I will say that I am new to this forum and to christian forums and I was a bit taken back. Now, I realize I need to "step away from the box", and not take things personal, whether it is directed at me or others. I am learning and hope patience will be given.

   I wanted to start this thread because it has been on my mind and keeping me from sleeping. I have asked the Lord to help me clarify. I've taken it to the word as well and I will share what I believe the Lord showed me. I would like to open my clarification process up to those who have more maturity in this area. I'm teachable.

   I have always been taught that prophecy was for the church for encouragement, edification and exhortation. That the Spirit of Prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. I have been taught that prophecy should
   1 Cor 14:4 build up the body of Christ
   2 Tim 3:16 must agree with scripture
   John 16:13-14 It MUST exalt Jesus
   Deut 18:22-22 It must be true
   Deut 13:1-5 It must lead to God and obedience to Him
   1 John 3:24 It won't make us fearful "perfect love casts drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
   2 Cor. 3:6 It gives life!
   Rev 19;10 For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of Prophecy.

   My understanding is that prophecy is given by the Holy Spirit.
   My understanding is that we are in a new covenant. The old covenant was filled with God's righteous judgement towards Israel. He spoke through his prophets of the judgement. The OT was a foreshadowing of what was to come and the fulfillment of those judgements. Jesus!
   My understanding is that because of the Israelite s disobedience, we..the gentiles, are now grafted in and heirs to the promise.
   My understanding is that Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ the fulfillment of the OT. My understanding of Revelation is not only the Revelation of Jesus Christ..but what is to come....including judgements on the Churches. I also see that there is a warning that "anyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book; If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book."
   When I read through it..a lot is hard to understand but I do know that God will reveal it to me when I believe I am mature enough to understand.

   This is what has been keeping me up at night.
   I've been seeing a lot of prophecies out there that are filled with judgement towards, it would appear, the church. Some are down right scary..talking of wars and slaughter..encouraging people to take your money out of the banks. To start storing up food for months. Wars..terrible wars that are Gods judgement on the church. Some saying they have actually heard the voice of God speaking these things. It would seem to be fear that is being encouraged. It seems that way to me. I may be totally missing it. I admit it.

   My concern? I think the book of Revelation is God's coming judgement on the church. One of the main messages is to repent...turn from your idols and profanity of all kinds. I think His judgement was enough and that those who speak more judgement are adding to God's judgement. (this is just my thoughts on it)
   I think that "Repent! For the kingdom of God is here!" is a sobering warning. I think the warnings for the church would be to sober up! Repent for the Kingdom of God is here!

   Am I missing something? Are these these judgements the words of God and I'm caught in delusion not seeing the truth?

   I believe revival is coming...I truly believe that those who are in the church who are not following the Lord will come under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and I believe there will be a mass repentance and following after the one True Love. I see when 3000 were added to the number in Acts..I see 300,000 and MORE being added to the church! I think it will be those who think they are following Him but have been deceived. I don't believe they are lost for one minute. I believe in God's mercy and His love and that no one should perish. I also believe that "Repent! for the Kingdom of God is here!" Is a very sobering warning for us all.

   So...are these prophecies that are filled with the judgement of God...from God? Are these for the church today?
   I'm absolutely not opposing the warnings given to the church about repentance. I also don't want to have a critical spirit and judge these prophecies as that and throw them out when I should be listening. I want to be sober minded and follow the warning Jesus gives....but I'm wondering if these are warnings from Him...or are His warnings to Repent...He is coming soon..and that the Judgements in Revelation will be coming with Him.

   Thank you all. I hope to hear from you...and get your take on these things. I hope you see my heart in this as I am truly wanting to follow what is right.

   Posted 5 months ago #

2. kpublbu
   Member

   Meredith, I read your post in full. I don't have an answer from the Lord I can give right now, but just wanted to tell you what a blessing you are. That's all.

   Cory

   Posted 5 months ago #

3. Onesimus
   Member

   Meredith,
   there is an insightful article by Fred London that looks at this issue here:
   http://onefiles.blogspot.com/2011/10/prophetic-or-pathetic-ministry.html

   1 Thess 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

   Tim

   Posted 5 months ago #

4. harvestisripe
   Member

   Most of what you have said reguarding what The Gift of Prophecy is is true.

   What we need to realize is a prophet of God and the Gift of Prophecy is not the same.

   A prophet of God is anointed and empowered and sent by God himself and will speak what God has told him to speak.

   The Gift of Prophecy is given by the Holy Spirit to whom he choses and is for the purpose of edification- exortation and comfort..

   Editification lifts up - builds up especially those whom are weaker and struggling - to strengthen.

   Exortation usually exorts one such as it can exort one towards Holiness - and seperation from the world. It is many times used also for to build each other up in Christ

   Also - if a word of knowledge is in operation in an exortation of a Prophetic word- it many times can bring a word of challange and conviction for one to change his course - this is not saying it is used for personal guidence - The Holy Spirit is to lead and guide us - I have witnessed it used by the Holy Spirit to change ones life.

   Many times the gift of Prophecy can bring great comfort and healing to one.

   It is a very precious gift and all can prophecy when the Holy Spirit leads us to do so.

   I just received a Prophecy yesterday that blessed my heart so much and it drew me so close to Jesus - filling my heart with such love - I layed in bed last night talking to Jesus and thanking him for this word - I know God gave it to me for today but even so much more to take with me in the Tribulation.

   A word of prophecy is not used for condemnation of one.

   Hope this helps, God Bless, Lynn

   Added: Yes Tim we must test to make sure it lines up with the word of God. Thanks

   Posted 5 months ago #

5. dagazz
   Member

   Thanks Meredith
   I agree that the gift of prophecy is mainly for encouragement, as Lynn stated, there are at times warnings and judgements proclaimed by the mature prophetic ministry, but as Tim often protests, we are often far to casual in accepting and holding on to these at times. Any word of prophecy needs to be tested, and in the case of these pronouncements of judgements, they are not something we "practice" the prophetic in... they are often life or death.

   I am glad you referred to the Book of Revelation, if this were not the final message to the church I believe the confusion that believes in an O Testament punishing, graceless, law making judge, verses a NT kind, forgiving loving God that brings freedom ,would be far worse than it is. I see that many things were shadows, the cross fulfilled many aspects of the battle between sin and brought righteousness, yet God's nature has not changed, the unfulfilled prophecies and judgements of Isaiah, Daniel and other books are still valid.

   God's nature is to show mercy,and He is full of grace, yet somehow we miss this in the OT, Jesus is interceding for the church, yet warnings and judgements will still come. I totally agree that some of these judgement prophecies are often "off" as there is no clear call to repentance, only judgement.

   As the following scripture also states, we are actually more accountable, not less so. In no way is God "taking it easy" on disobedience.
   I think Andrew had a message on "the God of the Old Testament" somewhere that may help, otherwise Paul Washer has some good messages on this and on the grace of God.

   Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
   12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
   12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
   12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
   12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
   Blessings
   Gary
   P.S
   How are you finding reading The Great Divorce?"

   Posted 5 months ago #

6. Meredith
   Member

   Cory..thank you. You as well. Glad your using your name. ;0)

   Tim...thank you. I agree with a lot of what that article says.

   Lynn...

   A prophet of God is anointed and empowered and sent by God himself and will speak what God has told him to speak.

   I do know that the office of Prophet and the spirit of prophecy is different. My question would be...wouldn't the prophet appointed by God have an increased measure of what the spirit of prophecy IS? The testimony of Jesus? If given by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit testifies to Jesus. Would the person who holds that office be one to do just that? In greater and 'annointed' measure?
   For the church to build her up and 'wash her with the water of the word" To bring her closer to the Lord by encouragement, edification and exhortation? As a collective not just an individual. I think the office of prophet has been established in the church (different than in the OT) to speak the heart of God to the body of Christ. I believe His heart is to encourage her(us)..exhort her(us) and edify her(us) One of the main things Jesus did while alive and after His resurrection and in the book of Revelation was to speak to the church about repentance. But..reading each judgement He still encouraged those who hang on to the end.
   Encourage means to

   en·cour·ageden·cour·ag·ing
   Definition of ENCOURAGE
   transitive verb
   1
   a : to inspire with courage, spirit, or hope : hearten <she was encouraged to continue by her early success> b : to attempt to persuade : urge <they encouraged him to go back to school>
   2
   : to spur on : stimulate <warm weather encourages plant growth>
   To edify..

   ed·i·fieded·i·fy·ing
   Definition of EDIFY
   transitive verb
   1
   archaic a : build b : establish
   2
   : to instruct and improve especially in moral and religious knowledge : uplift; also : enlighten, inform

   Exhort means to...

   Definition of EXHORT
   transitive verb
   : to incite by argument or advice : urge strongly <exhorting voters to do the right thing>
   intransitive verb
   : to give warnings or advice : make urgent appeals

   I do see that exhortation the definition of exhortation is to give warnings but not at the expense of the others. And what we are told in 1 Cor. 13 that everything should be done in love or it is a clanging symbol. I also think that the one who holds the office of Prophet has been appointed to speak the heart of God to the people. I believe..and this is me here..that we are the people. That there is a special annointing that rests on the Prophet to not only do the things I said above but to strengthen, encourage and comfort the body of Christ. To the whole body. I do think that there are times and seasons and incredible things happening and going to happen in the body of Christ. I do think God gives prophets appointed by Him an understanding before it happens to do the things I mentioned above. It won't EVER contradict scripture and it will be filled with love...even in warning.

   Another little ditty that comes to my mind...I don't think that the prophets now are ANYTHING like what God appointed in the OT. It's a new covenant with new rules. I don't think the prophets now are under the same..get it right or you'll be stoned. I think that was for the OT because most all the prophets were proclaiming God's judgement and those who did not...were not speaking God's word and were to be stoned. God's judgement was fulfilled in Jesus. New day..new covenant..new rules. It's all about Jesus and the Kingdom of God..repenting so you can enter in. I think the Prophet is called to the church not to the world. The world stands condemned already.

   I want to be corrected if this is NOT how God does things.

   Posted 5 months ago #

7. Ken1
   Member

   Dear Meredith, i would express EXTREEM caution on these so called prophecies and to be honest i really buy none of that stuff. I do know how you feel on reading/hearing these things, as i was once there myself some years ago. But most if not all of these so called prophecies are blatant apostasy. Can i please show you ERROR in what they are saying -

   Quote.
   One of the main messages is to repent...turn from your idols and profanity of all kinds.

   This is a lie out of the pit of hell, it all SOUNDS good BUT! does not line up with scripture -

   1 Thess 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how "ye turned to God from idols" to serve the living and true God;

   The Word says they turned "TO" God "FROM" idols.

   These APOSTATES say turn from your idols, big difference.

   Please check out what this "big difference" is and what "repent" really means in the link below -

   http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/bbpress/topic/2998/page/5

   Second last post on this page.

   Blessings Meredith i understand where you are comming from.

   Ken1.

   Posted 5 months ago #

8. Onesimus
   Member

   God's nature is to show mercy,and He is full of grace, yet somehow we miss this in the OT

   Yes Gary, we often do overlook God's grace in the OT and seem to think it's something He only started to display in the NT.

   But look at the patience He showed towards a continually disobeodent Israel and look how quick He was to bless them when they DID do something right.

   And on the other hand He is often portrayed as being a different God in the NT - a God of Love (and only love)and we tend not to notice the parts about justice, righteousness and judgement.

   But God is the same God, He has not changed - He has just introduced a new and better way for mankind to be brought into relationship with Him.

   Regarding prophets and prophecy - something to consider when assessing a prophet and his word, is what kind of "track record" does the person have? Have they been accurate in the past or are they in the habit of predicting things that do not happen?
   When they fail do they quickly confess and repent or do they try to cover up in some way - deflecting attention from the failure before moving on to give another "word"?

   Posted 5 months ago #

9. dagazz
   Member

   Meredith
   In addition to my above post, your last post reminded me of another aspect of this
   Thanks Tim, I totally agree, it is not the sort of word you "practice" on people..
   Some christians see Jesus as getting rid of the law, setting up a brand new system and doing away with the Old. This leads to quite a bit of confusion, as He himself stated,

   Matt5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
   5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
   5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
   5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

   It is a better covenant, with better promises,
   8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
   8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
   8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
   8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

   Posted 5 months ago #

10. Meredith
    Member

    Gary...question? If Jesus fulfilled all the judgements with His death and all that it entails..why would the old testament prophecies still be waiting to be fulfilled now. Didn't Jesus do just that?
    PS..I had a FULL mug of tea drop on my laptop day before yesterday..I haven't been able to purchase the book yet because of that. I'm using the hubs puter. Once we replace a few things..I'll have it in my greedy little hands. ;0)

    Ken! hey buddy!

    One of the main messages is to repent...turn from your idols and profanity of all kinds.

    This is a lie out of the pit of hell, it all SOUNDS good BUT! does not line up with scripture -

    Actually, one of the main messages of Revelation is to turn from your idols and profanity. The judgements to the churches talk about repenting-going the other way..turn around..from all the things they do. It's in the word..saw it with my own eyeballs.

    Posted 5 months ago #

11. dagazz
    Member

    Meredith, gosh I am struggling to answer what Jesus fulfilled in a brief paragraph [or lifetime]
    This may help with the do/ done thing.
    The closest word to destroy used in Matt 5:17, which some new translations use is Abolish.
    The other word in contrast is fulfill.
    Some people say this means Jesus is the "end of the law" but that is not what he is meaning here, it actually contradicts His statement...unless heaven and earth have passed away, but we probably would have noticed that.
    The terms he was using were used in debate by the scribes , religious leaders and pharasees.
    If someone was mis-applying, corrupting or undermining the law, they would say, "you are abolishing the law.
    If someone clearly taught, applied and put the teachings of God on solid foundations they would say, "you are fulfilling it."
    If you read it with this understanding it makes more sense [I hope]

    Posted 5 months ago #

12. Meredith
    Member

    Tim..when I hear a word in person...I usually know the person or 'prophetic voice' and know their life..usually it's an open book. I know the fruits of their life. They don't hide it. When I see someone who does that..I am always suspect. Now when there is a word given on the internet..it's hard to know who the person is behind it. If we know them by their fruits how will we really know? I have to listen to what the Spirit is saying to me. At least what I think He is saying. There was one I read today..that I believe the Lord said STOP loud and clear. I kept reading a bit and then I realized why He said stop. I learned. Sometimes though when someone says the LORD TOLD THEM..I'm like...ehhh man...it doesn't feel right..am I doing the wrong thing by NOT listening?

    Gary
    In Matt 5:19..when Jesus talked about the commandments, which ones was He talking about...the 10? The law of the old testament that the Israelites followed or the sum of the commandments...to love God with all your mind, heart and strength and love your neighbor as yourself?
    He said He came to fulfill. So I don't understand why there are still things to be fulfilled? I hope I don't sound too stupid..;0/

    Posted 5 months ago #

13. Onesimus
    Member

    Meredith said:

    Now when there is a word given on the internet..it's hard to know who the person is behind it.

    Yes Meredith - and often those people are ones with little to lose when they are shown to be false. They know there will always be other followers coming along to replace those they lose when their "prophecies" fail.

    Here's an old article I wrote (about 5 years ago) about this kind of "prophet".

    PROPHETIC OR PROFITIC?
    Have your ears tickled in the comfort of your own home.
    Ever been tired of running from conference to conference hoping to hear a word confirming your established beliefs? Are your finances suffering due to costs of travel, accommodation and conference fees in addition to love offerings?

    And what about the cost of all of those tapes, CDs and books purchased from the conference bookstore - the ones you buy so the anointing of the conference can be prolonged - or shared with your loved ones.

    Forget about all of that.

    Now, with little inconvenience, the ear tickling preachers and prophets can be brought directly to you - to the location of your choice.
    Home.

    Office

    Beach

    The choice is entirely yours.

    With thousands of expert, ministries available at the touch of a few keys, never again find yourself sitting in the wrong auditorium listening to the wrong preacher (how misleading those advertising brochures can be!).

    You can move from preacher to preacher, prophet to prophet at your own pace and according to your own need - the choice is totally yours.

    Many of the available ministers even sprinkle their words liberally with scripture - so you don't even need to open up your own dusty bible to see the truth of what they're preaching. They give you their proof right there in their own messages.

    Internet ministries bring the prophets you choose directly to you.

    __________

    Now to get serious. What is this all about?

    One person grabs the prosperity "prophets" and runs with them. Another clings to the "prophets" of doom.
    No need to listen to anyone else, we choose our favourites who preach what we want to hear. Things that support our world view and suit our own personality. We don't need to be challenged - we can be content to let someone tickle our ears
    The "prophetic ministry" - AS THE LORD WARNED - has been perverted by false prophets. People run here and there looking for what the latest and greatest prophet has to say.

    The internet makes this MUCH easier. No need to "run" - it's all controlled by a few keystrokes. And none of these prophets are accountable to those who latch on to their words, because their words are scattered to the winds and they don't know who is receiving them. (However, the Lord holds them accountable).

    I have some suggestions.

    1) Stop chasing after prophets and prophecies.
    If you need (NOT want) a word from the Lord - seek the Lord Himself.

    2) If the Lord has a word for you HE will deliver it. If via a prophet He will send the prophet to you or bring you into contact with the prophet.

    Prophecy is NOT a consumer product to be bought and sold.
    Prophecy is not entertainment; to be sought out and shared one prophecy after another.

    Prophecy should be treated with caution until its source is clear. (God, the devil, or self).

    TRUE PROPHECY is the word of the LORD, given for a PURPOSE and it should be treated with respect .

    http://onefiles.blogspot.com/2005/10/prophetic-or-profitic.html

    Posted 5 months ago #

14. Meredith
    Member

    Gary...

    another question....
    so if the prophecies from the OT are still in effect today and Jesus did not fulfill them all at His death on the cross...does that mean that the prophets now are still declaring OT prophecies? It would seem that the prophecies that I have heard that are so scary have lots of OT wordage and things that happened in the OT as a way to verify the warnings they give out now...but if Jesus fulfilled it? I don't get it. But you say he didn't fulfill it?

    Arg.

    Posted 5 months ago #

15. dagazz
    Member

    These are not silly questions at all, but very important.
    I think the reason this seems confusing is because of what we try to make it say rather than what it says.
    All things were made for and by Jesus, He is the mystery at the centre of God's plan, and the prophets were actually pointing to and testifying of Him.
    Jesus is the true understanding of the Law, The prophets [the Matt5 passage includes "and the prophets" so we know in is not referring to the 10, 1st, or 613 commandments of the Law]
    He is the embodiment and means to living in the fulness of God's plan.

    I don't see this as meaning everything before that the law or prophets said is"finished", and the unfulfilled prophecies cancelled [this would make them wrong and therefor false]
    He did/does fulfill the law and the prophets, just not how some of us understand it.

    Posted 5 months ago #

16. dagazz
    Member

    Onesimus
    Thanks for that, now if you could just give me your credit card details, I have a word for you.

    Posted 5 months ago #

17. Onesimus
    Member

    Gary,
    Are you telling me that God hasn't revealed them to you?

    Posted 5 months ago #

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