Shirley - I don't think you read the comments here
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Posted 1 year ago #
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So then do any of you people sin ever?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Andrew did you read the thread Holiness?
I am really interested in what you are saying.
Can a Christian be sinless?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Only a couple have admitted they sin. Anthony and maybe
a couple of others. Many of the others are inferring that if
I did it the right way I will not sin and that we should be
"sinless".This is not a small nit picky issue. This is major.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I believe this is hardly ever taught in the church at all and it is scarry to some who have never heard these things. In fact many are taught we will sin daily, some even go as far as to say, we need not worry about sin God is not worried about sin, so why shold we be, for all past, present and future sins have akready been forgiven, this is the message I have heard in the last six months in two churches I have visited within a five mile radis of my home.
Olsten in an interview on TV said he never preaches one message on sin because they already know they are sinners. It is really bad out there.
Perhaps this is why we are here, for Jesus truely wants to set us free from the lies and bondages we have been held captive in.
Shirley you are truely our sister in Christ and we are not claiming sinless perfection. I agree with you, we can stumble but repent and move foreward, and I believe we can go days without sinning, we are saying we do not have to deliberately willfully sin, Paul said sin is no longer our master. Sister this is wonderful News, he also said sin no longer holds us captive, wonderful news.
Shirley please know your questions are worthy questions.
Please I ask you to do a devontional study tonight by yourself with the Lord, talk to him concerning these things, and read Romans 6 tonight and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the power we have over sin.
Sending love to you, Lynn
Posted 1 year ago # -
Shirleym said.
Can a Christian be sinless?Ken1.
Shirleym, if you dont mind i would like to give you my answer to your question to Andrew and it is, NO we cant. We are not changed YET.1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.Ken1.
Posted 1 year ago # -
shirleym,
I refer you back to Andrew's question.
Have you read the comments here?I think the situation is very well summarised by Dirk:
Can we sin?
YES!
Are we supposed to?
NO!
Do we HAVE TO SIN?
NO WAY!But I would add another question:
Do we sin?
And I would answer:
I don’t know any Christian who does not ever sin.
But when we sin we sin through choice and not through necessity.
And when we think that we have no control over sin we are likely to give in more easily, thinking we are unable to avoid it.
I praise God for the truth revealed in 1 John:
I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
Note that the second sentence says IF anybody does sin we have Jesus on our side to speak in our defense. It does not say WHEN we inevitably sin.
I have heard that defence from Jesus being described as our safety net. It is there to save us, in those times when we fall.
I would also add that unfortunately some don’t treat His forgiveness as a safety net, but they attempt to use it as a trampoline.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Eph 4:21 Assuming that you have really heard Him and been taught by Him, as [all] Truth is in Jesus [embodied and personified in Him],
Eph 4:22 Strip yourselves of your former nature [put off and discard your old unrenewed self] which characterized your previous manner of life and becomes corrupt through lusts and desires that spring from delusion;
Eph 4:23 And be constantly renewed in the spirit of your mind [having a fresh mental and spiritual attitude],
Eph 4:24 And put on the new nature (the regenerate self) created in God's image, [Godlike] in true righteousness and holiness.If this is truly done by the Holy Spirit, then we will not sin habitually. This does NOT mean we will never sin, that will remain a possibility for as long as we are mortal. But we cam remain blameless as the scriptures say.
This means we will never violate God's revealed will to us. We would always be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and Ken1, this passage says we will be changed and so does
Rom 12:1 I APPEAL to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].These are not the only passages that speak of this change, there are many, many more.
a bondslave in Christ Jesus, Dirk
Posted 1 year ago # -
shirleym
MemberOnly a couple have admitted they sin. Anthony and maybe
a couple of others. Many of the others are inferring that if
I did it the right way I will not sin and that we should be
"sinless".This is not a small nit picky issue. This is major.
...
Yes I agree with harvestisripe.
Andrew also has a good sermon on this, "A State of No Known Sin".
If I can dig up a link I'll post it for you.
.
Shirley if I can soon (short on time right this minute) I would love to share some testimony with you.
So far as "can we be sinless", that is not easy to express.
I can tell you, so far as I know, today I am not conscious of any sin I committed or any thing I have to Repent for.
Nor Yesterday.
It's a state of existence, where one just walks in Communion with GOD all the time.
That is, in fact, what Jesus came to "buy back" (as Andrew said it elsewhere). He paid for, AND Provided a supernatural means for people to "become clean" and be "joined" to Him Spiritually.
One just gets up in the morning... and Walks with Him.
His "burden IS easy, and His yoke IS light"!
When one is Saved.. what are they Saved FROM?
Punishment for sin, or the State of Sin that separates us from GOD?GOD wants above ALL else for US to BE His Children.
We can only have one true Master, deep within our selves - Sin, or GOD. I'm very sorry but there isn't a gray area here.
"If you get rid of the Sin, you get rid of the PROBLEM, and GOD can Commune with you!" (another Andrew quote)
This communion with Him, is deeply Intimate. It's actually somewhat hard for many men to even understand this level of Intimacy.Is there any thing I can do to help you understand or obtain this, if you do not have it?
Posted 1 year ago # -
VERY well said, Onesimus!
Thank You!
Praise God!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't know if this is relevant to this discussion but in the OT there were sins of ignorance and there were presumptuous sins.
The idea of a sin committed in ignorance is a sin committed unwittinly, or by mistake. These sins were forgiven by bringing a sin offering to the Lord.
The idea of a presumptuous sin was a sin committed in pride. The one committing a presumptuous sin knew they were sinning, but didn't care. These sins were punishable by death.
Jim
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi "shirleym" in response to your question above, "So then do any of you people sin ever?" and further to what I've said a number of times on a number of previous threads in both sections of this website, a correct understanding of what God did when He saved us will help us to see who we are right now as defined by God Himself.
Romans is a great book - it steps everything out in a very logical progression, Romans 6-8 explains the process of sanctification and I believe this process continues from the instant of justification (when we are saved) right up until the instant of glorification (when we die and go to be with the Lord or are caught up with Him in the clouds - and so we will be forever with the Lord).
Without going into details at justification we - our old selves/sinful natures/flesh died and we ceased to be defined by God as being that person, we ceased being under God's wrath, our sins were forgiven and our transgressions were blotted out, at this time also we received a new heart a new spirit created in all holiness and righteousness of the truth and the Holy Spirit.
After justification our sinful nature which is "dead" positionally and is no longer defined by God as us, is still filled with deceptive beliefs, mindsets, demonic entities, practices, ingrained thought patterns, etc, but we - our new selves - are given the promise that we will be conformed into the image of Jesus... :-)
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." (Rom 8:28-30 NIV)The Holy Spirit goes to work to reveal truth - to give understanding to the truth in our new hearts and new spirits and as He does that area of the sinful nature falls off - Paul's discription "the body of this death" in Romans 7 was a Roman description of those condemned to die who had to walk around the city with a dead corpse strapped to their backs to mark them as being on "death row".
We too, have been marked by the Holy Spirit as being on "death row" - Praise God!!! - and know by definition and by faith that what remains of the dead corpse, i.e. sin within us, which we carry around is rotting and decaying more and more each day just as we know from 2 Cor 4:16 that our inner man is being renewed day by day. We get excited when we see this in practice also - which then becomes part of our testimony.
Coming to a place of rest is to recognise that this is the process which we are going through but to recognise that as we are new creations we - the new us - never sins - it can't sin because it was created in all holiness and righteousness of the truth, but on the other hand the old us - what remains of it - will continue to sin until the Holy Spirit brings transformation to our minds by renewing our minds with His truth in our new self.
I was saved at age 5 - genuinely saved, knew I was sinful and let it all go, gave it to Jesus for Him to forgive me and knew that I wouldn't be continuing to live in that sin.
Since then, I'm now nearly 39, I've been water baptised, baptised in the Holy Spirit with the demonstration of speaking in tongues, am seeking and believe beginning to experience the baptism of fire but throughout my journey there have been areas of my heart which the Holy Spirit has appeared to leave - in terms of deliverance - for an unusually long period.
For example, there was a deep root of coveteousness in my life, which I was painfully aware of and sought the Lord on continually for a number of years and which brought me great pain and grief in my new heart which He has now delivered me from in March this year.
All through this process I was saved and being transformed in other areas, hearing from God, being led by the Spirit, etc, and yet to me it appeared that nothing was changing in that area.
The Lord gave me a promise that He would deliver me and now I believe He has from this deep root of coveteousness with the mop up still ongoing... :-)
So, I said I would be brief but I struggle to be brief, sorry, in summary, the old me - whatever of it is still alive (and God only knows however much of it is still alive as He's the one who is searching it out scripture tells me from Ps 139:23) - sins but the new me never sins but to the degree that my mind has been transformed and I've been given relevation of the truth by the Holy Spirit in my new me, my new me lives and yet not I but Christ within me.
"How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,a we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure." (1 John 3:1-3 NIV)We "purify ourselves" by offering our bodies as living sacrifices to the Lord, i.e. totally giving ourselves to God and allowing His Holy Spirit to have complete control of every part of us, which is the same thing as yoking ourselves to Jesus (Matt 11:25-30) and then as the Holy Spirit works in our lives, submitting to what He is doing - which He gives us the desire to do anyway - and allowing the transformation process to continue.
What I have shared in the post is not theory, this is my every day experience with the Lord, I'm not going to share, i.e. list out, here what the Lord has delivered me from so far but let's just say that He's delivered me from a significant number of things which early on in my walk I serious doubted I would ever be free from and I look ahead with confidence that there is still more "liberty in the Spirit" ahead for me and I know for each of His children as He accomplishes it in our lives for His glory.
"But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.
I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you. For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.
Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." (Phil 3:7-21 NIV)Our God is an awesome God... :-)
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi Shirleym
I had dreamt many years ago of following the Lord in a way that has been expressed on this thread. I gave that dream up as unattainable. I did have great gaps in my understanding. I still have much to learn/unlearn. With the Lord the learning curve can suddenly take off! This I can say: one day on this forum, I found myself knowing that obedience to God and being led by the Spirit is possible, that in fact that is what God has wanted for me all along. God wants that for all of us. I just so wish I had known this before.I think you must also know that people on this forum pray for each other. They are led to even. This morning I wanted to pray for myself, and was instead led to pray for you and my request is that we please all join in prayer for each other and especially for you shirley. I say this, in the fear of the Lord.
PS:
Psalm 141:5: Let a righteous man strike me--it is a kindness; let him rebuke me--it is oil on my head. My head will not refuse it.Posted 1 year ago # -
ShirleyM asked
Can a Christian be sinless?
I believe we can live a life that is sinless, this side of a natural death, BUT ONLY AFTER our self-life and soul-life have died on the alter, and after we have put to death the flesh.
We must do far more than what we have so far understood fo "Taking up our cross daily". Merely doing something for God that we don't really want to be doing is not putting Self on the cross, it is merely inconveniencing it and making us feel self-righteous.
I honestly thought that i would find some on this forum who were prepared to be open and honest about sharing the nitty-gritty stuff about their life where the rubber meets the road, concering getting set free and healed, but it seems that what happens on holiday in Greece stays in Greece, and we come home picture perfect with no flaws or cracks.
I also thought that I would see people asking for keys to getting set free and healed, but again people don't want to appear less than perfect, even with the virtual anonomimity of a semi-closed forum with people from the other side of the world that we will never likely ever meet face to face.
Have you ever considered that Adam hid behind his fig-leaf, hoping that it would hide his sin, and that we too hide behind our fig-leaves, in our cases masks of pretence, in the hope that we too can be seen as "normal" and without apparent sin or fault.
Maybe it is the "face to face" bit we don't like, and prefer to wear masks that promise to give us a degree of respectability and credibility, yet to attain this elusive sinless life, those masks of pretence must go, for they represent our false selves, and God will never fellowship with our false selves.
And isn't face to face with God our ultimate goal? I really don't care that you all find out that I am a failure, or that I am the weakest link in the chain, or that I am a broken-down old man who still dares to dream of knowing God and doing exploits.
What does it really matter if you find out that 40 years ago I was a dysfunctional adolescant, that 30 years ago I was only too glad to have masks of pretence to hide behind at Church, for even then after 7 years of backsliding I was still dysfunctional, that 20 years ago I let self-sufficiency be my goal because I didn't trust God to take care of me, or that 10 years ago I was, compared to now, content to let God renew my mind, but not deal with my dysfunctionality and just over a year ago I was so depressed for a month or so that I struggled to get out of bed and get anything done.
There but for the grace of God, you too might have walked, or worse, but so what. It isn't where we have come from that really counts, but instead what we are becoming, and I want to go forwards and upwards.
So when I find an area of my life that isn't yet on the cross, I have to choose between keeping it alive and never experiencing true life, or choosing death to self and soul-life, to one day know God as I long to.
Can anyone relate to any of this, or am I on the wrong forum?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I can relate to what you are saying FW, as I am sure most of us can on here. We need to start asking pertinent questions of where we are in our walk, where we are struggling and share the victories that we have learned and gained through Him. Thus building each other up...helping each other to come into HIS fullness.
James 5: 16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Blessings;
SusanPosted 1 year ago # -
Too right Susan, or else we may find that we have missed our chances and remain stunted and deformed, crippled by misbeliefs, emotional woundings and fear of man.
There should be no safer place than Church, yet I have just shared how we stopped Churching because all the Youth Groups were into the toronto/Pensecola and Kundalini stuff.
This place too should be safe, but these last few days instead of sharpening our swords to use on the enemy, we have been cutting eachother to ribbons instead.
Perhaps it is time to be Good samaritans and inconvenience ourselves and blow our timetables by helping those who have been abused, and bind up their wounds and then see them looked after. A faith that doesn't have some cost to us, isn't a real faith at all.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I love this thread! I have been challenged, convicted, encouraged and blessed. God has used it to stir those sleeping coals and I am excited about a renewing of a fear of the Lord in my spirit.
I was getting so distracted by the "tones", the words, the use of keyboard...stuff, the long posts :) and I was so confused because one moment I would be amazed at the knowledge and wisdom of so many of you and then discouraged and sad by all the back and forth slashing.
But in this thread I heard the Lord say "look for me, just look for me" I now read each of the posts like a gold miner sifting, washing, and looking for the nuggets and leaving the rest behind. Wow, I have begun to find Jesus nuggets in all of you and I feel so rich in Him.
We may have different personalities, passion levels, degrees of knowledge, understandings of the Lord, but I see the Lord in each of us.
I can't help but say it, you are a bunch of beautiful people, lol.
I LOVE YOU LORD!!! :)
Posted 1 year ago #