Jim
According to the NT, a false prophet is defined differently. One, a false prophet is not Christian. Two, a false prophet leads others to worship a false god. Three, false prophet does not have true fruit.
If we accuse a Christian (true follower of Christ) of being a false prophet, we have contradicted how the NT defines what a false prophet is.
In the NT, prophesying is not limited to the office of the prophet. A true believer who is not a prophet can prophesy. A true believer who can prophesy can make mistakes but that doesnt mean they are false prophets. Unless he or she is leading others to another god, leading others to immorality, and shows no fruit, this is a false prophet.
Benlee,
In our culture, it's almost offensive to suggest that a person who says they are speaking by the Spirit of the Lord must be 100% accurate. But the gold standard must be truth, what they say must come to pass.
I know many, well meaning Christians, think they speak by the spirit of the Lord and they do not. I think Christians need to be very careful and not say they are speaking by the Lord, unless they are willing to be accountable.
If a Christian finds himself in error then he needs to fully repent and turn from those things that caused him to speak falsely.
Also, a false "word", from a Chirstian, is a bit more than an innocent mistake, it is a serious sin. Speaking in the name of the Lord, when the Lord has not given a word has historically been a serious sin. But in our culture, speaking a "word" has become fashionable, and if the "word" is found to be in error, then it is usually looked on as an innocent mistake, rather than an ascribing to the Lord that which is not true.
When need to be swift to hear and slow to speak.
Jim
Jim,
Whether we prophesy, teach, share the Gospel, we need to be sure we are correct.
My point is show what the NT says about a false prophet. There are many people that are quick to blow the horn and accuse someone of being a false prophet when in reality, they are incorrect in their accusation. That is part of the body of Christ that needs to repent because that has caused a lot of confusion and pain. A misunderstanding of the NT definition of false prophet show how much we have damaged others with our words. We need to help build others believers who are operating in prophesy to grow. If they make a mistake, we are not called to destroy them with our words but to help build them up.
Benlee,
Telling one to repent is not destroying them. Telling one to not speak unless the Lord has told him to speak in not destroying them.
Demanding accuracy from those who speak in the name of the Lord is not destroying them, it is protecting them.
I have approximately 20 Bibles, and every single one is sufficient to meet my spiritual needs. IMHO, there is way to much emphasis on "operating in prophecy", and not enough emphasis on "operating in the scriptures".
We live in a culture that is "crazy" with the supernatural. Many Christians have become mystical and they think its normal. They feel something and they speak it "by faith", and they are taught to do this. This practice is dangerous for the person, and dangerous for the church.
There needs to be some serious accountability for those who are going to speak in the Name of the Lord.
Jim
Jim,
You are missing my point. I have no problem with repentance, meaning a believer acknowledges that they spoke incorrectly and would be willing to continue on the path of hearing the Lord correctly (just a short summary on repentance and we get the point).
Im pointing out the false accusation we as the church has done to our own members (sisters and brothers in Christ) such as accusing true believers as false prophets. To accuse one as a false prophet is also saying they are not believers of Christ.
In regards to accuracy, it should be applied to all areas such as preaching, teaching and prophecy.
About being mystical or crazy for the supernatural, there is nothing wrong with it as long as they are not going against Scripture.
Benlee,
What is missing is accuracy, it is the gorilla nobody want to talk about.
There is nothing wrong with the supernatural if it is really from God. And that's what is missing, God is not in most of this "stuff".
A Christian should be afraid to speak a false "word". They should not have the attitude that it's ok to be wrong, that they're just learning. Real Prophets hear the Lord and give a sure word. The other stuff, I personally have no interest in.
I don't know where you live, but nobody around here is being destroyed for being a false prophet.
Let me ask you, have you personally seen any accountability for those who give an untrue "word"?
I have watched guest speakers come and prophecy over people, then leave never having their "word" checked for accuracy. They leave and what they say is forgotten, and the deception goes on!
Believe me friend, the church is not being damaged because of a demand for accuracy, but the church is being damaged because people are allowed to speak in the name of the Lord when it is not the Lord at all. That's the real problem.
Jim
Yes Jim, accountability is definitely missing. Another thing missing is a genuine fear of the Lord. He is taken far too lightly.
This can be seen in the casual way prophecy and signs and wonders are treated. They are often being presented as amusements and entertainment that have only passing interest and no lasting importance.
THAT is why failed "prophecy" is tolerated - because everyone has moved on to the next word and have allowed the failed word to be ignored.
Jim,
Bless you. Im going to end my discussion with you because your still not getting my point. I already know what your saying but I dont see that you understand what I have fully addressed.
Benlee,
I get your point. You don't want to label Christians, who give a word that is not true, as false prophets. I understand many are sympathetic toward those who are just learning how to walk in the prophetic. I understand that.
I also understand you have very definite criteria for the false prophet.
1. cannot be a christian
2. preach another god
3. must be fruitless
I seriously question the whole concept of one "learning" to prophecy. I'm old enough to have witnessed the downside of this movement.
The learning to prophecy movement started with WOF, and then John Wimber, founder of the Vinyard movement began Holy Spirit seminars teaching people how to prophecy.
You have to remember that John Wimber taught that we should not be so bound to Scripture. He reasoned and taught that since the Scripture did not explicitly state every possibility, we should open our thinking to the Holy Spirit doing new things. This is how the barking, animal noises, etc., came to be, ie, it was a "new thing." With each "new thing" there arose a "new teacher" to explain and verify it's validity. Because of his teaching, the Signs and Wonders movement was birthed and gained credibility as Christians everywhere "learned" his style of "moving in the spirit".
I don't think that a Christian, who repents of his false prophecy is a false prophet. But if they continue to speak lies, and will not repent, then I believe they will become a false prophet.
What is the biblical term for a person who speaks in the Name of the Lord that which the Lord has not spoken?
Jim
Jim,
Thank you for highlighting my points.
I will try to answer your question later if I have time.
"I seriously question the whole concept of one "learning" to prophecy. I'm old enough to have witnessed the downside of this movement."
In the OT, there were a company of young prophets who submitted themselves under Elisha. Commentaries would confirm these were young prophets wanted to grow in the prophetic and needed a mentor. This would help to confirm that learning under a mentor is part of the process to mature in the prophetic.
RE: Dr. Michael Brown's recording concerning Kundalini spirits...
It appears he still wants to embrace the the 'first heaven "phenomenon"' for the most part instead of coming clean.
Sanctification is the foundation of the true church. Sanctification removes the distance to God who authors genuine works. As a Pentecostal, it took me over 30 years to discover this! Sanctification is the foundation of healing, miriacles, and signs & wonders.
Amen!
Lets all get clean!
Lets all draw near!
What ever it takes Father!
Our Lord is worthy of a clean church!
Benlee said
In the OT, there were a company of young prophets who submitted themselves under Elisha. Commentaries would confirm these were young prophets wanted to grow in the prophetic and needed a mentor. This would help to confirm that learning under a mentor is part of the process to mature in the prophetic.
Me,
Friend, it was not the young men that followed Elisha, but it was Elisha who did the prophesying, did he learn to prophecy? That's the point! There is no record of God using any of the young men that followed Elisha.
Weren't those trained in the School of the Prophets notorious for giving false words?
Real prophecy is not something one learns, but God chooses certain individuals to speak forth His Word.
Show me any Prophet in scripture who learned to prophecy.
One cannot learn to be an Apostle.
One cannot learn to be a Christian.
Jim
Jim,
I would recommend for you to read on what commentaries had to say about the young prophets under Elisha. Also, give it some thought about why these young men were titled "prophets" and why they had a mentor.
Scripture is filled with mentoring examples. Scripture does not get into the full details of what was shared but the principle of mentoring one another comes in many forms.
Jethro invested into the life of Moses. Moses invested into the life of Joshua and the elders of Israel. Joshua invested into the lives of others.
Eli invested into the life of prophet Samuel. Samuel invested into the life of Saul and then David. David invested into the lives of others.
Jesus invested into the lives of the twelve disciples who in turn invested into the lives of others.
Barnabas invested into the life of Saul, also called Paul. Paul invested into the life of Timothy. Timothy invested into the lives of others.
Mentors shepherd by coming along side with counsel, consult, guidance, instruction, and challenge but primarily by modeling. The Apostle Paul depicted mentoring relationships when he said "Follow my example" (1 Cor. 4:15-17; 11:1).
God is sovereign and therefore He can raise up prophets, apostles and any follower of Christ with and without mentors. Scripture doesnt record the full specifics on how one was mentored but give us a strong idea one had to learn in order to mature. God sets mentors in place to train one another.
Virtue,
Can you provide a bit of your background such as what denomination, theological beliefs, etc so that I can get a better idea where you are coming from. No need to type a book but just a very short summary if possible.
Also, have you had the opportunity to listen to the link I have provided?
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