1. harvestisripe
   Member

   Habakkuk
   'but I do not see where that gives anyone to believe that Jesus went to hell' -- I finished it with 'and was viciously raped, beaten, etc. 'and died and had to be 'born-again' in hell.

   Lynn:
   Habakkak you are absolutely right. Jesus is God in the flesh, in the beginning was the word, Jesus was never created, he was from the beginning, and the word was with God and the Word is God.

   He never had to be born again, he was the spotless Lamb of God that layed his very life down that rose again and had all power over sin and death.

   1 Corinthians 15
   Death is swollowed up in victory.

   Jesus never assended from hell, he never went to hell, and as said the scripture below, shows where he assended to.

   John 20:17 “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”

   When Jesus said - "IT IS FINISHED" while on the cross, He was saying the price was paid in full at the cross. It it was not finished then was Jesus lying? NO he was not he never had to go to hell to be tourchered to finish it. - this is a differant gospel.

   Those that teach this use this scripture.

   Matthew 12
   40 for just as Jonah was there three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

   This is speaking of Jesus being put in the Tomb for three days not decended into hell for three days.

   Revelation 2
   8"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
   These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again

   Jesus tole the thief he would be with him in Paradice this day, which is not Hell.

   This shows Jesus blood atoned for our sins not Jesus going to hell to atone for our sins, HOW ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE this false teaching says his atoning blood was not enough! Nor his death.

   Colossians 1
   "19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

   20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

   21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

   22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach" ("19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. 21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach"

   1 Peter
   "18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,

   19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ."

   Matthew 26
   "27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins."

   Luke 24
   44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

   45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

   46 and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,

   47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem."

   JESUS STATES RIGHT HERE HE WOULD BE DEAD FOR THREE DAYS and then raise alive on the third day, nothing is mentioned about him being alive in hell being tourchered these three days.

   Habakkuk, I hope these scriptures have helped you, and please keep walking in your humbled spirit the Lord can use your humbleness.

   God bless, lynn

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. wakarusaguy
   Member

   A central false teaching corrupting current American Christianity: that Christians are "conservatives."

   It's a Christian self-image for which there seems no scriptural basis. Nor did Jesus set us an example by making common cause with the "conservatives" (OR the "liberals") of His time: they were rather a primary target of His wrath.

   It's a self-image manifestly political, and promoted to the Church for 30 years by politicians with self-serving motives.

   It's a self-image that entangles the Church in the partisanship of the world's kingdom, teaches the Church to place its hope in human politics, and makes "virtues" of the deeds of the flesh (enmity, dissension, divisiveness, etc.)

   I'd welcome, and value, the thoughts of other believers here.

   Steve

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. wakarusaguy
   Member

   Hi, Stephen:

   Thanks for your comment.

   I'd agree with you insofar as politics is a human endeavor, and subject to Christ's rule. I'm not arguing that politics is forbidden to Christians, or beyond Christ's light.

   Wouldn't agree that it's a "leftist label" that Christians are "conservative." Nor would I agree with evaluating the idea in partisan political terms.

   The false teaching (as this thread addresses) is not that others regard Christians as "conservative," but that it's a widely-held Christian SELF-image. (If you doubt that, praise a few Christian friends for how liberal they are. Though it's a perfectly good word meaning "generous," and a virtue scripture commands us in imitation of God's liberality, I doubt you'll find a single Christian who hears "liberal" as anything but political. My guess is that all will angrily protest they are solidly "conservative"...again in political terms.)

   My question is whether that self-identity is in any way scripturally attested; and whether Christ, Whose Body we are (in scriptural teaching), in any way set us an example as, or otherwise endorsed, "conservatives."

   I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts.

   Best, Steve

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. wakarusaguy
   Member

   Hi, Stephen:

   "Partisan? where?"

   Putting things in terms of "conservative" and "liberal" (or "leftist" and "rightist," if you prefer) is a partisan formulation: groups in mutual opposition.

   "You might want to consider how the meaning of words change with their usage. Liberal and conservative are labels for identifying with a collections of ideals and virtues, not merely some arbitrary self image."

   Exactly my point: the meanings of poltical terms are completely changeable, and in constant flux (after all, politicians control them). What scripture teaches the Church IS doesn't change: so I'd think it wise for the Church to take it's self-image from scripture, rather than politics.

   "I believe we should not submit to the labels, but rather keep people involved in the world views that lie beneath the semantics."

   Goes with my previous comment: the Church' worldview should come from scripture, and not politics. And you seem to agree, saying "The world view of scripture should be you standard."

   On that point of agreement, let me ask again: if it's true Christians' self-image (and worldview) should be "conservative," where's scripture teach so ?

   Pending your answer: if it's not taught in scripture, the equation that Christians are "conservatives" should be among this thread's "ten common false teachings in the Church today."

   In Jesus, Steve

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. flyingkiwicjk
   Member

   A most excellent book regarding the intermediate state is "The immortality of the soul OR the resurrection from the dead" by Oscar Cullman. Greek thought invaded the Church a long time ago and is still being taught and believed today. This book should clear up any questions you have on the subject. Copies are available from Evermore Books, Mt Roskill, New Zealand. I have just discovered it is available on-line at http://www.religion-online.org

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. flyingkiwicjk
   Member

   Dear Brother,

   Might I politely ask, did you even bother to read the book or discover anything about the author? An out standing theologian from the Lutheran tradition, who felt compelled to write more on what Luther himself believed, as did many or most is a better word, of the reformers including William Tyndale, John Firth, John Milton, Weymouth of the Weymouth translation, to name few more recent.
   Did you, (or would you be considered incapable to do so) leave your prized opinion at the door of honest investigation?
   You see, it is not the end we differ on here, we all agree that the dead shall rise. It is simply the means to the end that we have to investigate. I dod not claim to know it all, and never should anyone make such a statement. Any true Christian would not consider themselves heretical, just honest, and would always conduct honest investigation of anything that is presented to him/her.
   For instance I know many, including my self, who resolutely believe in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including tongues. But the tongues we so often see today falls into insignificance when compared to the book of Acts. When was the last time you heard a tongues message that was understood by a non-english speaker, and the message was such that it brought them to the Lord? This is what I look forward to seeing when a God initiated revival is gifted to us. Does this mean I'm heretical? No, and it does not mean I'm right or wrong, my investigations simply led me to that conclusion.
   When I was in AOG theological college, during the morning chapel time one day, I asked that no interpretation be given to any tongues message should one be given as I wanted to conduct an "experiment" if you like. When one was given, I asked that all keep their eyes closed, and that anyone who thought they had an interpretation please raise their hand. Three did so. I asked them to leave the service for a few minutes to disclose to me privately what they thought the interpretation was. Can you guess what the result was? Not one agreed with another. So I had a rethink of what I understood regarding this gift. I concluded that the real gift would be more desireable, and look for the time when we will see it just like on the day of Penticost. I don't try and change people practices on this, and I don't throw the term "heretical" around too carelessly either.
   Again I say, "we should leave our opinion at the door of honest investigation."

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. Christa
   Member

   Regarding false teachings in the church. The "slain in the spirit" stuff. That's where someone lays hands on your head and makes you wobble until you fall down backwards.

   I think it is umbilical and a perfect example of the entertainment spirit in the church. I have never found an example of someone falling under the presence of God that wasn't FACE DOWN, hiding their faces in God's or an angel's presence.

   Posted 1 year ago #

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