1. mark and susan
   Inactive

   and also the feasts and new moon according to "Prophet" Tom Deckard, on his website because the blood of Jesus was not enough,
   "The blood that Yeshua (Jesus) shed was our ticket to permit us to enter into Heaven. If the blood of Yeshua (Jesus) was enough in itself to protect us, then we as Christians would not have to worry about sickness or plague. The problem is His blood was not enough. Christians are sick and not protected as those who kept the Law were in the days before Yeshua (Jesus) came."
   WHAT? The blood of Jesus not enough???
   He also believes he is the Last Days Moses leading Ephrahim back to Israel.
   My question is...How many who reject mainstream Christianity wind up believing cult like ideas because of people like him?
   Here are some of his quotes:
   "The Church never became the new covenant doing away with the old covenant. "
   "Who are His Children? Those that keep both the Law and confess Yeshua (Jesus) as Moshiach (Messiah). These are His children and He will do whatever is needed to protect them."
   "The key is to find a prophet and listen to what he tells you and then do it.(hint, hint, that's me) You need to find a seasoned prophet and not someone trying to be or hoping to be.(that's me, that's me) You need to find a prophet with a track record that shows they are hearing from G-d.(me again) "
   (emphasis added)
   Hopefully this gives insight into reasons why some push keeping the sabbath
   We receintly lost some friends because of this mans teachings
   Mark and Susan

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. marilynk
   Member

   I am sorry to hear that teaching has effected your life in such a way. It is my belief that keeping the sabbot that God gave is corrrect, but not what he speaks according to your post. The Word says to honour "my" sabbot to keep it holy. God established the sabboth not man. It is sad that so many people have taken such liberty's on this topic, as well as so many others.

   Mark and Susan did you say that you are in the US? Also, did you say that you are cross country truck drivers? If so are you ever in Oklahoma? Marilyn

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. Roger Souden
   Member

   I can only give my understanding and experience:
   I tried to keep God's weekly sabbath (which is saturday not sunday) but failed miserably, as I did with everything else that 'I' tried to 'do' for God - because that was of 'self'.

   When the Lord showed me that I was not to tithe, because He wanted 100% (not just 10%) of ALL of me, my life under law starting falling to bits, and at some point after that He also showed that He wanted me every day of the week and not just on one day.

   Later the Lord showed us these Scriptures (there are others);
   Col 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

   Heb 4:3-11 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

   So, the Lord showed us that He is our 'sabbath' rest, and that we should abide in Him. Now this makes better sense to me now than it did back then, especially as my'self' must decrease and Christ increase. ..and me striving to keep a 'law' was works and of fleshly self - which Jesus doesn't want, and won't accept.

   Mark and Susan - I believe the example you are sharing boils down to legalism and the whole concept of 'man' trying to dominate others, as they do 'works' for God.

   Jesus came to set us free, hence the temple curtain was torn from top to bottom - think about that.. 'top to bottom'

   Marilyn - I understand what you are saying and I struggled with this for years, but this is where the Lord Jesus has brought us. We were taught that Jesus two commandments, included/covered the ten Mosaic, which they do. He commands us to love Him and love our neighbour - when I love Jesus as Lord, then I spend every day with Him, I do not need a law telling me to spend only one day with Him. Does that make sense..?

   I'm not trying to convert anyone - just share what the Lord has shown us - we all need our own revelation from Him.

   In Jesus our Lord,
   Roger

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. mark and susan
   Inactive

   Marilyn
   Yes, Mark is an over the road truck driver and I ride with him. We just took a job based out of South Dakota. We would have liked to hear Andrew preach, since he would have been up in this area. We address ourselves out of northeast Ohio. Mark is driving right now. We are in South Dakota on our way to Wisconsin. We use an air-card with our laptop to communicate online. In case you were wondering.
   We ocasionally get through Oklahoma, usually on I-44 on our way to or from Joplin.
   P.S. it is very hard for us to keep any sabbath.
   In the service of the King, Jesus Christ
   Susan

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. mark and susan
   Inactive

   Roger you said, I believe the example you are sharing boils down to legalism and the whole concept of 'man' trying to dominate others, as they do 'works' for God.

   How I wish I was as elequent as some are on this forum and I think you nailed that one on the head, so to speak.
   Mark

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. Kevin
   Member

   Yes Roger nailed it with the same verses and experience I have had.

   If all we had to do was give 10% and go to church on the sabbath, we would not have needed Jesus to die for us.

   Christ wants all of us given to Him, as He gave all for us.

   Kevin.

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. marilynk
   Member

   I can see that Roger, if we look at the Acts example the meet daily. It is really a heart issue would you agree with that line of thought? Marilyn

   Posted 2 years ago #

8. mark and susan
   Inactive

   Marilyn are you Jewish and if you are, have you found a good messianic jewish congregation?
   Susan

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. Roger Souden
   Member

   Yes Marilyn, I read that in the Col.2:16-17 I quoted above - we can't judge either way :-) It is as Jesus shows each of us, and we each need to be at peace with Him about these things. Heb.4:12..?

   Mark - you will chuckle at this, 'my eloquence' was based on a chapter on 'legalism' from Newbolds 'The Harlot Church...' I am reading at this moment, for the rest see this link; http://www.christineboudreau.ca/newbold/or/harlot/harlot15.html

   Kevin - that is the 'crux' isn't it - if all we needed was a set of laws..?

   In Jesus,
   Roger

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. Jacob Waldrop of Alabama
    Member

    My fellow prisoners of hope,

    I would encourage you not to pass any premature judgments on any of these teachings, whether based on your personal experiences or vast knowledge of such matters; even if an angel appeared and told you that the law is passed away, never to be read again.

    Please bear in mind that we are imperfect vessels trying our best to experience a very perfect GOD.

    Those of us involved in such teachings as mentioned above know very well the dangers of such extremes (as many of you are well aware of the extremes of the sloppy grace gospels which more abundantly abound.)

    Many false teachers have come and gone, but Torah and the Prophets still stand as perfect witnesses to HIS greatness; ALWAYS pointing us to the complete work of Messiah.

    Tomorrow, anyone of us could be thrust upon a deserted island without so much as even a Bible. At that moment we are only to be led by HIS Spirit poured out on us.
    Should such circumstances tarry, I am compelled to walk with the whole counsel of GOD, be it a crutch or not. And even though I no longer am in need of a tooter, and the Law is no longer my task master, we have become great friends over the years. When I speak with this "old wise friend," I feel as though I am placing my fingers into the very scars of Jesus' Body and I am filled with belief again and again.

    With that stated, there are many good arguments that make these verses read very differently. As to their validity, I cannot yet ascertain.

    I am compelled to walk in the light revealed to me. I love the Sabbath with much flare. I hope that this does not disappoint any of you.

    In all honesty, I was made to feel very much like a second class citizen while reading much of the above. No offense taken, however. I believe I felt your hearts.

    As for me and my house, we are only seeking to do what we believe the Spirit of Holiness is prompting us to do in this day and hour.

    Right wrong or indifferent, let us please press on building together with "shouts of 'grace! grace!'"
    May the Great Physician mend together HIS broken body where divisions have come.
    Amen....
    Jacob
    Your Fellow Prisoner of Hope

    Posted 2 years ago #

11. ProphetessAshanti
    Member

    My understanding of the Sabbath, which is Saturday, is as a "day of rest"...which the Lord instituted for man's benefit.

    I believe if we obeyed the Lord in truly resting one day a week, [not working at all], we would not carry so much sickness and disease in our bodies and would have a better frame of mind as well as emotional wholeness.

    Just as the Lord instituted a "sabbath" for the land...to let it "rest" in the seventh year, Exodus 23: 10-11, and we failed to do it so now we have depleted our resources and now we want to go "green"...too little...too late.

    Yes, we live for the Lord everyday, and we set aside Sunday as a day of fellowship and worshiping the Lord together however that has nothing to do with the Sabbath and its purpose.

    Posted 2 years ago #

12. Andrew
    Key Master

    Yes - Roger I agree

    We do not see the Sabbath "enforced" in any way for Gentile believers in the New Testament. Just like circumcision.

    Sadly "Torah Observance" is a fad sweeping many away into legalism today and could almost be referred to as a "cult" in many cases. Very sad to see.

    God bless you!

    Andrew Strom

    Posted 2 years ago #

13. Peter Lawrence
    Member

    Yes Roger, very well said. You certainly nailed it well. Agreed!

    Also a good follow up from Kevin saying...."If all we had to do was give 10% and go to church on the sabbath, we would not have needed Jesus to die for us"

    Ashanti, good point about rest unto the Lord as God did after creation and as in the example of resting the soil on the seventh year and even of cancelling out debts. "If we are forever busy" then it is good to pause and spend time with God is the context I would use rather than upholding a particular sabbath day rest which the law required.

    Jacob, your right, we do not throw out the ten commandments in the process.

    Posted 2 years ago #

14. marilynk
    Member

    Mark and Susan, It is my ancestry, however, our famiy has had a history of a christian walk. No I have not found a good Messianic church to go to. My brother and his family will be moving back to Stillwater in November and we will start having a sabboth day service so to speak. Right now I am at a church that God placed me in. The people keep crying out for revival and truth. In this body of believers there was a religious spirit that had taken root. Through intercesion God has been able to deliver that body of that issue in their lives. Now I wiat, watch, and listen for God and his purpose for me their. As a rule (not to faithfulwith at it lately) my fellowship with God is every free minute when I'm not at work. It has been difficult for me to do that lately, mostly because I am in the way of it happening. Marilyn

    Posted 2 years ago #

15. mark and susan
    Inactive

    Marilyn,
    I know what you mean when you said "Now I wiat, watch, and listen for God and his purpose for me their." We wait and watch daily for God's direction in who He wants us to speak the gospel to. We do have the luxury of praying on the job, as we go down the road each day. We know that if we don't make the time to spend with God, other things can get in the way. After being around our friends who kept the sabbaths and the feast, we began to feel in condemnation for not keeping them, though we didn't know how we could, with our job. We did a word search on the word LAW and after reading all the scripture in the New Testament, we were released from condemnation regarding keeping the feasts or the sabbath.
    However if we were of Jewish descent, I'm sure we would find comfort in worshipping on the sabbath, fri sundown to sat sundown. Also in keeping the feasts, we realize that most of the so called "Christian" holidays have either pagan roots or pagan traditions incorporated into them and choose not to celebrate them either. Keeping the Jewish feasts and holy days because you want to could be a great idea.
    Susan

    Posted 2 years ago #

16. marilynk
    Member

    Mark and Susan, Each feast points to the Messiah. My brother has young children and to take all forms of holidays away just did not fit. However, if they can learn that God gave feasts that point to Messiah in truth that gives them something. Marilyn

    Posted 2 years ago #

17. Caribee
    Member

    Just thought I'd post today to say, thank you, I am finding this thread a real blessing today, as I have been praying about this very Shabbat issue, and am concerned about some "Messianic" websites and individuals who seem to be moving away from the true gospel. In recent years God wonderfully opened my eyes to what He is doing with the jews and Israel in these days, but Andrew's comment above was a refreshing and timely reminder that we are to stand firm in the liberty of the gospel of grace, and not be drawn away by "christian judaizers". Having been blinded by replacement theology in the past, I have been so blessed to be led back to the Hebrew roots of my faith. Even before the revelation God gave me, some years back He showed me I needed a sabbath rest year from work - in fact He gave me two years and gave me the finance to live on, as I was ill and needed time to recover; this was not legalism but life and God's wisdom for me at that time, and so I have tried to incorporate this into my lifestyle. I am discovering the blessing of Shabbat, although I do not feel bound to observe it; to truly rest once a week rather than continually be busy is a helpful reminder to me that I am dependent on God's grace and not my own works; the sabbath principle points me to grace. Roger, I looked at the link you posted above, that was such a blessing, thank you, because at times I struggle with not being "part of a church" - I think I will read the whole book! Andrew's book on out of church christians was also really helpful - thank you Andrew.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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