Is the position of this Forum that the evidence of regeneration is speaking in tongues?
Jim
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Spot the difference.
1) Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will be saved.
2) Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Which version of the statement best depicts the priorities of our doctrine in attitude and practice?
Which is actually correct?
Posted 1 year ago # -
JimC,
Speaking in tongues is ONE of the evidences of baptism in the Holy Spirit/Receiving the Holy Spirit/being filled with the Holy Spirit.What does scripture say about evidence of "regeneration"?
How often does scripture actually refer to "regeneration"?
When scripture does mention "regeneration" what does it actually tell us about it compared to the theology that has been created around the term.Posted 1 year ago # -
When uses Abraham as an example to us of why the Lord justifies a man. Paul, for sure understood the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and not one time in all the book of Romans does he refer to speaking in tongues as the evidence or cause of one's justification.
One thing we know for sure - Abraham was justified prior to Law, prior to the Sabbath, prior to Baptism, and prior to speaking in tongues.
The Scripture says, and Paul taught, that righteousness was credited to Abraham because Abraham believed God. If this is not true, if a man is justified by speaking in tongues, then what God said in Gen 15:5 and what Paul taught in Romans 4 is not true and the Scriptures are playing with us.
But I know, you and I both believe the Scripture, so I ask you, how was Abraham justified?
Jim
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't really see that anyone has said tongues is evidence of justification.
Abraham was justified by faith. The evidence of his faith was his obedience. He believed God and acted on what GOD said.
Likewise today we are justified through faith in God. That means we trust GOD and His word. When it come to salvation we accept HIS revelation on the matter instead of what men might say.
We rely on what God says we need.
We rely on what GOD has provided to meet that need.We should not rely on men's arguments which dismiss, deny or redefine what God has provided.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
If Paul's example of Abraham is meaningful at all then it means I will be justified in the same way as Abraham. There cannot be one justification for Abraham and another for me, otherwise Paul's use of Abraham doesn't mean anything.
Anybody can speak with tongues, anybody can be baptized a certain way, anybody can keep the Sabbath, and anybody can outwardly keep the Law. But none of these things of themselves save or justify.
If the unregenerate do these things then are they saved? Of course not. There has to be something more than the outward doing of these things; something or Someone, has to make these things meaningful.
It is Christ that makes these things meaningful. It is not tongues that make Christ meaningful, no, it is Christ that brings life to tongues. The same can be said for water baptism, and other outward acts we do.
I think Paul was right to use Abraham for the definitive example of how one is made right with God. With Abraham, we are shown it is not the external acts that God accepts, but our heart attitude. And then our heart attitude makes the outward meaningful.
Jim
Posted 1 year ago # -
According to Acts and at Pentecost The Baptism of the Holy .
Spirit was evidenced by speaking in tongues.This Baptism of the Holy Spirit was not regeneration, they had already received their spiritual birth and the Holy Spirit.It is the endwelling Holy Spirit that regenerates one.
Posted 1 year ago # -
harveststripe,
That's exactly what I was saying. It is regeneration that makes speaking in tongues meaningful. Otherwise, to be saved all anybody would have to do is speak in tongues and the act itself would save them.
For me, it is not Christ + tongues, or Christ + baptism or Christ plus anything. Christ alone is the Lamb of God, He alone bled, and Satisfaction was made by His slaughter, alone.
Tongues did not die for me, baptism did not bleed for me and therefore cannot save me.
I speak in tongues and I have been baptized but Christ has brought His life into them and therefore they have brought fruitfulness to my life.
Jim
Posted 1 year ago # -
When I was born it was not food that gave me life.
And it was not food that brought me into the world.But my birth and the life I had at birth was not sufficient to sustain me for the number of years I'd be on this earth.
My parents provided for me to ensure I remained alive and healthy. If I refused or ignored their provision my health would have declined, eventually leading to death. My parents provision was no less important for my on going life and existence than my birth was.
Likewise we can not separate salvation (new birth) from those things God has provided to maintain our life and growth after our new birth.
If we ignore God's provision we will not grow into healthy and mature believers, and we may struggle to reach the end of the race.
Things like tongues and other spiritual gifts do not save us. But without them our spiritual lives are not as healthy as they should be and our spiritual life itself may be put at risk. We will not reach our God-intended potential if we ignore or dismiss what God has given to equip us for that potential.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yes Onesimus I fully agree.
Posted 1 year ago # -
This subject has gone completely away from Randall's original post and deserves it's on thread. I believe it is one of the most important subjects to talk about. True and biblical conversion. The Lord is going to deal with all the confusion Himself soon enough.
Sontrans - I will pray and fast for revelation and confirmation of the word you spoke concerning Jesus breathing on the disciples. We all need absolute truth from the throne of God about John 20:22
I do completely agree with the rest of your post about many believing they are born again, when in fact they are not. I was one of them and you described me to a tee! :-) I was a professing Christian for eight years before I received the Holy Spirit and I always wondered why I could never stop sinning and never changed! The church I went to never taught about being born again or the baptism of the Spirit, gifts of the Spirit, five fold ministry, etc.. When I got married in 06 my wife told me about the baptism of the Spirit and I studied it out four months and prayed everyday for it and I received it in my house in Sept. 07 with the evidence of languages and prophecy, praise Almighty God!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't understand what speaking in tongues have to do with Pentecost.
The ascension of Christ at Pentecost was a one-time event. Never to happen again. Just like the emmaculate conception happened once and shall not happen again. Christ' death, burial, and resurrection was once and for all. The Holy Spirit and Christ could not be on earth at the same time, that is why Christ said it is expendient that I go away. He had to ascend back to heaven, from whence He came, so that the Holy Spirit could come down.
But what has that got to do with tongues today?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sorry Randall but this is moving away from your topic again.
I want to respond to Flying Eagle but will do so on another thread.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Thanks Onesimus I think a response would be great on another Thread, this does need addressed.
Please let us stay with the original Thread above.
Thanks, LynnPosted 1 year ago # -
Yes Tyrone we do need to get back on the Thread Subject - Thanks, Lynn
Sorry Randall,you had a very important question. God Bless, Lynn
Randall
Member
I attend a church where it is taught as a study course that God talks to us almost incessantly and all we have to do is just tap in and presto, we are on God's party line. We're been encouraged to journal and write down what we hear. The basic idea is that people need to be simply trained to hear the voice of God (almost like being taught a simple skill)My problem is that I have been battling a very strong evil spirit who keeps assaulting me and coming against me, especially during prayer times. It has been my experience that 99% of the time that people say "God told me" it has been a spirit, all right, but one from the dark side. They are masters of deceit.
The reason why I am bothered so much by this teaching about God talking all the time and everyone tuning in, is that I see very little change in anyone's life. I keep seeing people in strong bondages and they're not changing hardly one iota. If it was God talking, wouldn't we be seeing deliverance and freedom and people restored back to normality?
And if God was doing all the talking, wouldn't there be the weight of God's authority there? After all, if one being can create billions of galaxies with billions of stars in each one, then this person has so much authority that I think we'd be afraid just to be near him, it is that great!
Am I right to be bothered? Something keeps eating at my spirit.
I am NOT finding God talking to me, as the teachings suggest He does, but rather I am finding spiritual warfare instead.
Posted 1 year ago #