1. Darren Sargent
   Member

   Those of you who have spent time within, and been subscribers to, those sections of the charismatic church that have endorsed the weird phenomena that coalesced at Toronto, (though it has been around much longer than this) are in a very important position; you have had your eyes opened at some point and can see from both sides. Your testimony about how God has delivered you could very well persuade many of the sheep still led astray to rethink their position.

   I would love you to write your testimony here if you want the world to know the type of deception that is going on. We all know about Andrew's testimony, but it can't rest on just his shoulders anymore. Speak up and speak out! Be factual, be honest, be gracious to those who are still deluded, listen to the Lord over whether you should name names or ministries. Tell your story here in parts if you wish. I'll read it, even if its really long! Give us some of your background. It would be really good if you felt up to putting your real name to it rather than a handle.

   I would love to produce a collection of these stories in a pdf e-book format for circulation.

   Please, take your time to tell a real story that people need to hear. But above all, write as if Jesus himself were reading it.

   Love to all in his name.

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. Darren Sargent
   Member

   Just want to add a few caveats: no gossip please, just your honest heartfelt story that breaks your heart. It may be about the manifestations or the psychological manipulation. It may deal with the use of money or cult-like tendencies.

   Please pray before you post, do not use this to vent and get even. This will be for the lost sheep to return back to the Shepherd of the true flock.

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. marilynk
   Member

   Darren, I was never a part of these movements. God opened the door so that I could witness these things firsthand. My pastor two years ago provided the opportunity to attend an impartation meeting. Not knowing what that meant I attended a meeting where John and Carol Arnott were preaching. They tried to "impart" something to me, but it could not enter in. Could not undersstand why all of the poeple in the room were having such strange reactions to the Holy Spirit. Kept wondering why they were not casting the demons out of all of these people. There was a woman that looked like she was in convulsions and John told me it was the Spirit of God upon her. It was as if a great battle were going on inside of her.

   That night I dreampt that Carol stood with her hands on the small of my back and my stomach praying in tongues. As she was doing that I saw the Acropollos filled with saints dressed in white and the Holy Spirit was pouring out over the walls of it. I would wake myself up jerking. My bed was about 12-18 incahes away from where it should have been.

   God's hand was upon me. Whatever they were trying to impart to me was not able to enter into me. The experience was an important encounter for me. This week the pastor from where I have been called to is at a conference at Bill Johnson's church in Redding this week. I have prayed for him to have decernment in the hopes that he does not bring that spirit back with him. Marilyn

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. BigK
   Member

   When I became a Christian back in the mid-1990s in Toronto, I attended a local Vineyard Church which was a church-plant from the Toronto Airport Church. In the beginning, I had seen many people get "filled with the spirit" and longed for that as I didn't experience such a thing. I felt the Lord tell me and through other people that I shouldn't look to manifestations, but to focus and seek Him. Eventually after taking my eyes off of outwardly things, the Lord filled me with an inexpressible joy and peace through His Spirit. Under the power of the Spirit, I did shake, tremble, fall; however, not pushed or wanting to. I knew I was genuinely saved and received the baptism of the spirit with a gift of tongues following. I was so hungry for God and thirsted for His presence continually.
   Some time later, some friends told me about the Toronto Airport Church and the things going on there. I figured I would have a try and see what the big fuss was. Around that time the Airport Church had broken off from the Vineyard movement due to disagreements over different beliefs, and specifically spiritual oddities such as people barking, animal noises, etc. I am not sure if they had ever reconciled, but it seemed like it was a big enough issue for the Vineyard movement to address it.
   Looking back I am not sure if the Vineyard churches discerned something strange going on or not.
   To continue, I went to various meetings and genuinely felt God's presence. I would see things there that didn't seem right in my spirit such as a lack of self-control, animal sounds, screaming, excessive drunkenness, people shooting other people with "Holy Spirit guns", fire tunnels, so on. I have experienced feeling "drunk in the spirit", but with an absolute peace, love and joy. A lot of people I had seen looked like they had been truly drunk or high on something and would act uncontrollably.
   After some time, I stopped going to the Airport Church as I felt God not leading me to go there anymore. It felt kind of empty like something changed. I think that at first, I can genuinely see God moving, but the feeling there started to change. It was almost like God had lifted His presence out, but we didn't realize what was happening. It seemed that after some time, the people there had too much of a focus on signs & wonders, experiences and prophecies, etc. that they lost focus on having a true relationship with God without expecting Him to always do things for them. God was looked upon as a "Holy Ghost bartender" who was there for the sole purpose of giving into our demands of wanting to feel drunk/high in the spirit. Of course, I don't think all the people there acted like this and I believe many were truly born-again Christians.
   The prophetic ministry was probably the most popular ministry that people sought. Majority of the people would flock to prophetic meetings especially if the "prophet" is popular and would desire an impartation or word from him/her. I went to one meeting like this where it seemed like many were scrambling to get near the "prophet". God opened my eyes to see how people get impatient or desperate and get tricked into looking at the flesh. Most Christians don't want to spend the time and effort to seek a true relationship with Him because it's hard work and God's holy presence reveals our hidden sins which we don't want to deal with.
   I call the Christianity of today "fast food Christianity". We demand a quick fix and move on. When we "feel" like we are craving more or working on low steam, then the cycle continues. I don't think God is one who gives into our "feel-good" scams. Just who would give into our desires to please our carnal nature upon demand? The answer is obviously easy to guess.
   In conclusion, from my experiences of going to the Vineyard Churches and Toronto Airport Church, I truly believed that God was there in the beginning as I had experienced genuine prohetic words and manifestations. However, as time went on, many Vineyard churches struggled to survive and even some had closed. Even some pastors and leaders of some these churches gave up and went their own way. In hindsight, I think that what started as a good thing - the devil gradually sneaked in and misguided people from looking to God to experiences, signs and wonders. I think this is how many other revivals had stopped in the past. Beware!
   I hoped this testimony will help some people. -Kevin-

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. livn4him
   Member

   Ok so since the comments seem to be closed on the other thread I thought I would post this here. this was originally posted in response to CONTROVERSY Over “KUNDALINI” VIDEOS

   Darren, I will think about what I can add. I have seen sooo much. The fruit of this false movement might be a good place to start.

   Andrew,
   How I wish I had an email for Mr. Torres. I would love to tell him how I HAVE experienced ALL the guys he mentioned (except John Crowder he came along after I got wise to them) I used to spend all my vacations and extra money chasing after these people, thinking I was chasing after God. I even moved to Kansas City to be part of IHOP and the (now known as) false revival there. I have had my share of fire and oil and drunkenness. What freaked me out was, in Kansas City a lady came to the revival who had just gotten saved from being in the UNITY cult all of her life. Her parents and grandparents were part of it. I remember taking her to a revival meeting and in the middle of the “worship”, as they sang the same song over and over, she asked me “why are they chanting?” “thats just like what Unity does, why would Christians do that, thats so New Age”. She asked me the same question several times in the service. Then came the “prayer time” at the end and she said to me, this is just like New Age. I do not want to go back there. Then she said “I can not stay her” and she got up and literally ran out. She started attending a Charismatic baptist church down the road and loved it. She is still there in that church today.

   I also had a encounter with one “laughing evangelist” who I followed for several years and even worked for. He told me, “I love you because your my ringer. If no one is laughing I can always get you laughing and people think the Holy Spirit is here. You are so easy”. I walked out that night and I have never gone back.

   Now fast forward 8 years and I am in another country and working with a group of about 8 former Yogis, New Agers etc. I showed them a video of John Crowder. NOT YOUR VIDEO, John Crowders own video. There reaction was the same. Why would people who CLAIM to be Christians do all that stuff if the power they have should be stronger then any New Age power.

   The TRUTH is people of the world are looking at us and laughing and saying we are no different then all the other crazies. If we let the Holy Spirit work and let God be God Amazing things happen, we do NOT have to work up froth, snot and spit!!

   Andrew, I have said this for YEARS and no one listens to me. I pray they will listen to you even if they do not want to. My best advice to you, dont react at all, just keep doing what God gives you to do. You see even if I had Mr. Torres email address I would not answer him. I would not give him that because it would take my time and energy that in my opinion would be better spent.

   Keep up the good work Andrew!

   Blessings,
   Ann Clarkson

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. livn4him
   Member

   Darren,
   What really breaks my heart is the young people (18-30) who start out on fire for God and get really caught up in all this stuff. In 1999 I was asked by some friends of mine to go with them to Kansas City and help with the setup of the "internship program" and be on Staff. At that time I was "older" then most of the kids, had been in ministry and was considered an example of a Godly intercessor.

   I lasted about 4 months, but I was stranded in Kansas City for 2 and a half years. I lasted 4 months because I asked too many questions. These kids were (still are as far as I know) being told that they were "prayer missionaries". They were expected to work for the ministry 40 hours a week, pray in IHOP 40 hours a week AND attend Grace Bible college and do all the homework required. They were also told they had to raise their own support and they told they could not work outside the ministry.

   I was also present in an orientation meeting when the "newbies" were told that it would be better for them to have no contact with old friends or family as they were being trained in a "new way of thinking" outsiders (exact word) would not understand.
   When I questioned these and many other practices, first I the people around me stopped talking to me. A week later I was called into a meeting and told "we are not sure you fit in with us here". I was then told not to come to the prayer house or talk to the interns. 2 things I continued to do until the day I left Kansas City!!

   I was sharing a flat in a complex where almost everyone renting there was part of IHOP. Mz flat mates were the directors of the internship program. The flat was directly across the street from where the prayer house was then.

   The people I was sharing a flat with were told to take my keys and throw me out. Fortunately, the lease was in my name and when they tried to do that I contacted the Landlord and called the police. I think they were a little shocked that I did not just bow down. After 2 weeks of wrangling where I was forceably locked in my room, physically threatened, coerced and all 4 of my car tires slashed and my car vandalized the complex manager gave me an flat rent free for 3 months. I found a job and was able to start paying rent the second month.

   After I started working I started getting threatening phone calls at home and at work. I had made the mistake of calling my former flat mates about something from work, so they gave my work number all around. The calls were traced back to IHOPs offices at Metro Church and charges of stalking and harrassing phone calls were brought. That stopped the phone calls, but it did not stop some of the leaders from sitting or standing outside my building door and shouting and screaming at me if they saw me. One "worship leader" from IHOP even threw water on me from his balcony 2 floors above in same building.

   Now I suppose you wonder why I stayed. Well, first of all I did not have the money to leave. I spent all my money getting there, getting set up, buying a car, etc. The other reason was the kids. Almost every week another poor kid would show up who had spent all their money to get there, on fire for God, wanting to "DO SOMETHING FOR GOD" and the first time they spoke out or asked a question or spoke their mind they were told they did not fit and were thrown out. Since they had cut all ties with home after they got their they did not know what to do. Usually I found them tired, exhausted and fed up sitting in a local coffee shop or McDonalds down the street. There was always the old trick of the "IHOP" leadership" telling flat mates they could just chuck their things out and demand their keys. I was usually the one who told them that was not true and I made lots of enemies at IHOP for telling these kids the truth. A couple of them had no idea what they could do and were sleeping on the streets. There are hard cold realities for those who do not fit in at IHOP. I spent hours counseling these "kids" (usually 18-25) and helping them reconnect with their families and get home.

   Since leaving IHOP and ministering in other parts of the world with my husband, I have come across other poor souls who have fallen into the IHOP trap and had to be rescued by friends and family.

   I still consider myself a prayer warrior and I have seen God do some amazing things. I do not want to cheapen the real thing by focusing on the false teachings and ideas that are out there, but I think the truth needs to be told.

   NOw ask me about the Kansas City (Smithton)revival... ;=)

   Blessings,
   Ann

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. harvestisripe
   Member

   Ann - I so apreciate your willingness to speak out first hand knowledge against what goes on their, that others will might be spared such as this. I too have seen some of the effects that have gone on there.

   The fruit you describe here from I-Hop members and leadership speaks for itself. I too have seen some bad fruit.

   God Bless you, lynn

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. Tedelmipro
   Member

   What about the Smithton revival?

   Stephen

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. livn4him
   Member

   Oh dear so much has been said about the Smith/Kansas City revival. There were whole websites dedicated to its abuse and heresies. So I think I will do it like this.

   THINGS I LEARNED FROM THE SMITHTON REVIVAL

   1. If you see a good show somewhere else, there is no reason you can not recreate it in your church. Steve Gray said "I went to Brownsville and I can DO that too".

   2. No one is indespensible. It does not matter if its your mother, father, brother, sister, sister-in-law or even your children. If they get in the way of the show, they gotta go.

   3. A handpicked audience is always better. Steve and Kathy made sure only the most gullible, agreeable, easily manipulated were in the front for the world to see.

   4. If your 2 year old can not stand in the same spot with their hands in the air for 3 to 4 hours of worshiping God then beat them until they learn to submit. This was actually in the "Revival Handbook" until it was turned over to Childrens Protective Services. I saw this first hand in the ladies bathroom where the little demons were brought to be beaten before going back to "worship". I personally reported 2 parents to child services.

   5. Never let people know where the money really goes. this was always true of the Grays. The truth is the money always went to them, not the ministry because THEY WERE THE MINISTRY. that is why they could leave Smithton, sell the building, run away and never look back (see Smithton Revival: Revival's Relocation Pits Pastor Against Alienated Followers http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/october1/14.18.html)

   6. If they wont give you money, dont give them anything either. We were in a tent for 2 years. In the winter in the freezing cold and in the summer in the blazing heat. Steve figured that it would help people give more to build a building quicker. When they did build a building it was much different then what was promised and much less was spent then what was actually raised for the building.

   7. Make promises you know you will not keep. This was always happening. If people had a problem, a promise was made to fix it on the spot, but it never happened. You know of course that you can not really questions "Gods Elect" so they could never be called liars.

   Oh my there is so much I learned at World Revival Church. This should do for a start :)

   Ann

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. chas351
    Member

    First i want to make some comments on the 3rd Video:
    you say there is NO difference between (let's call them 'ALL' Godtv) and pagan worship?
    but how can that be..? the pagan's do NOT call on the Name of Jesus,
    the pagan's do NOT Worship Jesus as God or acknowledge Him as coming in the flesh and rising again,
    they do NOT confess that "Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God, ie. Heaven, ie. Eternal Life.

    you say the Bible says 'not to be drunk' and i agree, and of course that applies to drinking alcohol
    (the Bible is very clear on alcohol drunkeness),
    But how would you describe a drunk person? ie/ excess alcohol consumption?
    would you say a person was drunk because he was speaking in tongues OR weaving to & fro stumbling?
    (i have never seen a person speaking in tongues and my thoughts were they are drunk).. SO, what
    i am saying, is that in the book of Acts they must have stumbling around ie. appeared drunk.

    I avidly watch many of the 'speakers' you accuse of being demonically influenced and my understanding
    is that 'some' of them may be out of line, having started off in the true faith and power of God then
    ventured somewhat off the path of righteousness - scripture clearly states that 'the gifts and calling of God are
    without repentance', ie once God gives men gifts, he does not take them back, and if man then goes a stray
    they are at risk of losing their life here on earth, because they have being given the greater responsibility.
    [ref. Rm11:29 and 1Co7:20]

    Note.
    much of what is on GodTV is "done in LOVE" which is a powerful testimony proving they are "Believers"
    The Gospel is preached, the sick healed, The Lord Jesus Christ Worshipped and His Name Magnified.
    The CALL is to walk in HOLINESS and know that "WE" are Saved by GRACE, through Faith,
    REDEEMED by the Blood of Jesus Christ". >this is their MAIN Message<
    I do NOT accept everything, everyone says on Godtv, but "filter it" with Scripture, as God gives me Wisdom.

    When you put "ALL" these 'preachers and their manifestations' together as a lump", you are judging them as one,
    not as individuals or ministries, and Judging the spirit by which they work (which if done in error, could be found
    to be judging the Holy Spirit, as did the Pharisees:...............therefore you also include:
    Maria Woodworth Etter, Oral Roberts, John Lake, Derek Prince and T L Osborn as under the influence
    of demonic powers - which i TOTALLY DISAGREE, these last 5 were all walking in HOLINESS and had very similar
    manifestations, all done in the Name of Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God the Father.

    My question to you is 'when the Holy Spirit comes upon YOU', what Powers are manifested? (Acts1:8)
    are people delivered, healed, do miracles happen? are people saved? do they turn from walking in darkness?
    do "SIGNS" follow your preaching?

    if not, why not?

    My Bible says "Faith that doesn't work, is DEAD"
    Does your faith work?
    Is your God Living?
    Does HE speak to you personally?
    Do you hear His Voice?
    Does your Bible inspire you to walk in Holiness by Grace or by keeping of the LAW?

    Mark 16: 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.19So then, after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

    1Jo 4:2
    Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    1Jo 4:3
    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
    1Jo 4:6
    We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. livn4him
    Member

    Pagans do not call on Jesus and yet they have the same manifestations. That is the point. My former pagan friends will ask the same question "why do Christians do that it has nothing to do with Jesus"?

    In answer to these:
    My Bible says "Faith that doesn't work, is DEAD"
    Does your faith work?
    Is your God Living?
    Does HE speak to you personally?
    Do you hear His Voice?
    Does your Bible inspire you to walk in Holiness by Grace?

    My answer is yes and no manifestations are required!! I been there done that and I have had the Holy Spirit very quietly say to me "what are you doing?" "You do not have to do that". I learned the hard way

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. 4Jesus
    Member

    I have not been that much involved in what is called Kundalini. But I have seen some things go on that I believes was not right of course. Mostly thought those walking in those things, were also walking in fleshly sins too. At least the leader or leaders were.

    As for the gifts of the Spirit being something we should be looking at to determine if one is from the Lord, IMHO that is not what anyone should ever look at period, written clearly in what is written in Matthew chapter 7. As was said, the gift and calling of God are without repentance, meaning as was also said. God does not take them back. So therefore, when given a gift, that one can be walking without fruit entirely, yet apparently still be operating in the gifts???? I know this sounds not right to my way of thinking in the natural. But my ways are not His ways generally speaking quite often according to Is. 55:
    6] Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
    [7] Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
    [8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
    [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
    [10] For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
    [11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
    [12] For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
    [13] Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

    And it is very important that we watch to see if one is truly walking in what Jesus stated in JOhn 7:

    [16] Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    [17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
    [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

    Because that is what the true disciple of Christs will be walking in. That one reproducing others to walk after Christ in the same thing too.

    What was described here by those people is definitely anything but those walking in the love of God period.

    No doubt about that at all.

    Just felt led to share what I did there. Even though I was not testifying personally about being involved in what is going on today at all.

    Plus the reason those people are so young, is that is who they prey upon to begin with. Not the older or elders that would know what was going on at all. But the young that are mostly at best, Baby Christians. If you watch those that are what some refer to as being involved in occult fellowships today, they act and do much the same thing as is described here too. Meaning if questioned at all about what they are doing, they also become abusive even on the internet. Why? Because they have not the true love of God moving within them, controlling what they are doing. Not saying that they may not have the Spirit at all either. But if he does abide within them in hopes that they will get right, they are definitely quenching the Spirit, which we all can do of course, according to 1st Thess. 5:19. As the Spirit does not control us, but we are in control of Him instead according to what it seems to be saying in 1st Cor. 14:32, if you think about what that is saying, that is.

    It truly makes me sick in my spirit to know this is going on with these kids.

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. Apollos
    Member

    When it comes right down to it, all these constant talks of revivals are way overrated. It gets old. How many times is God going to visit us in some "new" and profound ways? How many dreams and visions can a person have? And, frankly, has anyone ever had a vision worth sharing? They can invent only obscene "new" things, but can never touch on the real truth of the matter..

    We exist in dark times, inbetween this world and a new world none of you will like very much. The Russians are building fallout shelters and rejuvenating their nuclear weapons. The Chinese are preparing similarly. And the United States... what is the United States doing? We have in our schools, our churches, in every aspect of our civilization an outside, evil force; a communist power, a power that says "ye can be gods"; a force of deception and cruelty that is undermining our religion, our family and our ability to defend ourselves.

    Our country is dying. Our civilization can end if we do not prepare for war. And what are we all doing? What are these obnoxious, Pentecostals doing? Speaking rambling words and falling inlove with their own self deceptions. The problem with people isn't that they're not "on fire" enough, their problem is that they do not seek the truth and know nothing of the truth. Screw em! Let them have their missionary trips or prayer sessions while the world burns.

    I spent too long following various pentecostal dreams and visions. I spent too long hoping to experience being "slain" or filled with the Holy Spirit. I can fake tongues just as good as the next guy, but that was not what I wanted to be reduced to.

    I think the real truth here is that all of it is a deception. Not just the extremes, but even the "acceptable" nonsense many of you would accept. And it isn't the devil deceiving any of us either: It's ourselves. We're doing it. We deceive ourselves in the same ways heathens have deceived themselves for thousands of years. All of a sudden we're the "real" Christianity with our super holiness and supernatural experiences, but honest Christian men and women have existed in all of our countries without the need to poke their finger into a wound of Christ. Millions of Christians have earned the right to be called children of God without the need for heathenistic, fleshy experiences. Damn these "revivals!" Damn these supernatural visions! Damn the delusions and the vanities! I'd rather live in a cold, dark world without any clear proof of God than to live in a world where I am deluded.

    Posted 1 year ago #

14. HappyTrails
    Inactive

    Apollos....I agree with your last comment.

    I also agreed with your comment about "blaspheming the Holy Spirit", but could not comment before it was SO RUDELY CLOSED.

    Posted 1 year ago #

15. Onesimus
    Member

    It can be annoying when threads are closed.

    But without the all too common rude and abusive comments there would be no need for any thread to be closed.

    Posted 1 year ago #

16. MikeG
    Member

    Ann said:

    I think they were a little shocked that I did not just bow down. After 2 weeks of wrangling where I was forceably locked in my room, physically threatened, coerced and all 4 of my car tires slashed and my car vandalized the complex manager gave me an flat rent free for 3 months.

    Me:

    I have been watching IHOP on TV for some months now. I have heard things said about them that were very negative. Judging by the TV presentations and Misty Edwards music, along with some of Mike Bickles teaching I have developed a favorable opinion of them.

    If what you are saying is true and in fairness what you described was 11 years ago I would indeed be shocked and troubled concerning them.

    You were forcibly locked in your room?
    Physically threatened?
    Your tires were slashed?

    Would you mind specifying BY WHO?

    Ann:

    After I started working I started getting threatening phone calls at home and at work. I had made the mistake of calling my former flat mates about something from work, so they gave my work number all around. The calls were traced back to IHOPs offices at Metro Church and charges of stalking and harrassing phone calls were brought. That stopped the phone calls, but it did not stop some of the leaders from sitting or standing outside my building door and shouting and screaming at me if they saw me. One "worship leader" from IHOP even threw water on me from his balcony 2 floors above in same building.

    Me:

    So WHO was making these calls specifically? Anyone that you had known? In what way did they threaten you? You said they also stalked you. Could you elaborate and if someone was stalking you I would assume you saw them.

    These last two questions should be easy to answer. Which IHOP leaders were standing and shouting out your door?

    Would you name the "worship leader" who actually threw water on you?

    Ann:

    Almost every week another poor kid would show up who had spent all their money to get there, on fire for God, wanting to "DO SOMETHING FOR GOD" and the first time they spoke out or asked a question or spoke their mind they were told they did not fit and were thrown out.

    Me:

    Something seems a bit odd here. From what I know of a cult it takes more than one time asking a question to tell them to leave.

    And consider this. If people were raising questions to IHOP leaders and they were in effect told they were not wanted at IHOP it would seem they would go back home.

    I mean most Christian parents would not fail to receive their childern back home if indeed these things were happening at the pace you seem to indicate.

    Ask one question-told to leave.

    If that happened to one of my kids I would say "come on home you are wanted here".

    Of course I would like to have some idea of what the questions were that caused the IHOP leaders to tell these kids they were not wanted as members.

    If indeed what you have written is true it would show a high degree of hypocrisy from a Church that features Sermon On The Mount type teaching. And if indeed over the past 11 years since these things happened there was no repentance obviously IHOP is not what it seems to be.

    What I need is specifics. If IHOP physically forces people into rooms and locks them up, vandalizes their cars, stalks members of the general public, threatens and assaults them I will warn anyone I may meet to stay away.

    Posted 1 year ago #

17. Tedelmipro
    Member

    Just want to say that those are excellent questions and I would also like to hear the answers. I would also add that there are two main scriptures that make me hesitate before making any judgments.

    1) "Be sure never to charge anyone falsely with evil. Never sentence an innocent or blameless person to death, for I never declare the guilty to be innocent." Exodus 23:7 NLT

    2) "The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him." Proverbs 18:17 NIV

    This is not to slight personalities, but to verify the information given. So back to Mike's questions...

    Stephen

    Posted 1 year ago #

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