CONTROVERSY Over “KUNDALINI” VIDEOS – Comments?

The following was published this week by a spokesman for the “spiritual drunkenness” movement-

‘ANTI-“Kundalini” Videos Are NOT From God’
-by Rick Cruz Torres – Oct 31.

“Greetings and Throne Room Light to you and yours!

My super cool brothers and sisters in Jesus continue to send me
this video and others like it, on an almost daily basis. Some are
sincerely concerned about things they don’t understand; others
have already decided that folks like John and Lily Crowder, Ben
and Stephanie Dunn…, James Goll, Bob Jones, Todd Bentley,
Matt Ford, Georgian and Winnie Banov, Randy Clarke, Che Ahn,
Lou Engle, Bill and Beni Johnson, Heidi and Roland Baker, and
others, are the devil incarnate…

This particular video series is the product of Andrew Strom, who
is a “reformed pentecostal”, otherwise known as a shipwrecked
believer. The vast majority of the so called “discernment ministries”,
are nothing more than vehicles for the religious spirit. NONE of
the self appointed watchmen who have made a BUSINESS out of
calling God’s friends and servants heretics, are Spirit Baptized,
Blood bought believers.” – Rick Torres.

ANDREW RESPONDS: I don’t know why you would say such a
thing, my friend. You don’t even know me, or the heart I have for the
Body of Christ in putting out these warnings. Some people indeed
tell me it is not very “nice” and not very “Christian” to put out these
things. But what happens to the precious sheep if nobody ever
warns them? Isn’t it true that the Bible literally “COMMANDS” us
to issue warnings like this if the Body is in danger? My friend, how
can you say that I am not a “Spirit Baptized, Blood bought believer”
when you don’t even know me or my heart for the Body?

Below are the 3 Videos that are causing all this controversy. We
are currently trying to get them onto hard-copy format so people
can have copies to warn their friends. I do not apologize at all for
issuing these warnings to the Body. We simply felt it had to be
done. (Please comment below).

VIDEO ONE – “Kundalini Warning 1″-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpw2oQrvMM

VIDEO TWO – “Kundalini Warning 2″-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCcGaTRwG_4

VIDEO THREE – “Kundalini Warning 3″-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWeUNoR30_0

Despite the opposition, please forward these videos to as many
people as you can, my friends.

God bless you all! – Andrew Strom.

Posted in Uncategorized by Andrew on October 22nd, 2010 at 4:40 pm.

233 comments

233 Replies

  1. Elsje Massyn Nov 1st 2010

    DEAR ANDREW, PLEASE DO NOT STOP WITH YOUR RESEARCH & EXPOSURE OF THE KUNDALINI (FALSE SPIRIT) IN THE CHURCH. I HAVE FORWARDED ALL YOUR WARNINGS TO MY FRIENDS AND 99% OF THEM ARE VERY EXTREMELY GRATEFUL THAT THEIR EYES HAVE BEEN OPENED & THEIR WORRIES HAVE BEEN EXPLAINED. THE ANTI-KUNDALINI PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BLINDED FOR SUCH A LONG TIME THAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE THE LIE. PLEASE PROCEED WITH THE WONDERFUL WORK, BY GETTING THE TRUE CHURCH TO EXIT OUT OF BABYLON, SO AS TO BE READY FOR THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH!!! WITH GREAT ADMIRATION & PRAYERS – PS. PLEASE REMEMBER TO ASK THE FATHERS PROTECTION EVERY DAY FOR YOURSELF & YOUR FAMILY AS SATAN HAS BEEN “WOUNDED” AND HIS IS ON THE PROWL LIKE A WOUNDED LION TO SEE WHO HE CAN DEVOUR!!

  2. Bridget Farrell Nov 1st 2010

    Dear Andrew,

    Keep speaking out the truth.God will sort out these soulish ‘Christians’ who profess to know Him, but who are bringing shame on the His name and His Church.
    God is with you my friend. I pray He will bless and protect you and your family.

  3. Shout it from the mountains, run the streets as a herald, use every available avenue to expose satan’s deception. That’s what’s great about kiwi’s, they can stand apart.
    God Bless you & your family. Stand firm!

  4. Hi there brother from Perth Western Australia, you sir are exactly what the body of The Lord needs right now, some one to stand up and shout from the roof tops of the deception of the evil one, I like to throw this one around a bit when im chatting to folks, the ratsak effect, 99% good food 1% poison, the rat eats the food, its the 1% that kills him. it only takes a little leven to leven the whole lump. if any one is interested about finding out more regarding this kundalini business, look up Dave Hunt and T.J MacMahan, they go into this very subject in depth, especially Dave Hunt, a great apologist as far as im concerned, much peace & many blessings to all.

  5. Tatyana Nov 1st 2010

    How dare you to greet us from “Throne Room Light”?
    Whose throne room are you standing in?
    What light is there if it is darkness?
    What do alll ministires, you enumerated, produce?
    Do their produce real conversions?
    Do they produce holiness?
    Do they produce real life of testimony?
    Do people really notice that that is Godly living, not just “spiritual”?

    There are many spiritual things in church, but it doens’t mean that they are all from God. Devil is also spiritual.
    Why dare you to stop this man of God telling people what God tells him?

    False prophet do not ask what to preach- they say whatever they want. And many are dying now because of your silence and tolerance. Where are the Sheep? They are gone astray, no one cares. And you are feeding them with all kind of junk, all you of false prophets?

    You are threatening us that we are judging!? What about “good tree cannot bear bad fruits”, and the opposite? And we know them by their fruits.

    It’s one thing to make couple mistakes, but it’s another – to continuosly lead people into delusion, and not be afraid of God nor people, but try to scare them.

    And finally, don’t you dare to tell us what to do, what to hear, dont you dare to not let us think and contemplate and test everything that ‘s out there on Christian marketplace.

    False prophets decieved many, now it’s our turn to come back to the Truth and to proclaim it. And we will. And will support such ministries like this.

    We reject to agree with any New Agean, Eastern and pagan philosophies in Christianity, and won’t have any peace treaty to shut our mouths. No. Don’t expect it.

    We are coming back to the heart of worship, for it’s all about Jesus.

  6. Peter Nov 1st 2010

    It’s really sad people respond in such a way. There’s nothing in it about the content of the video. Instead of responding to the message, they respond to the messenger, reverting to rather stupid name-calling. The argument is something like: Andrew Strom doesn’t support what we’re doing, so he must be a ship wrecked believer.

    I’d like to appeal to those involved to respond in a more intelligent way. If you’re really sure you’re on the right track and what you’re doing is biblically sound doctrine and practice, it shouldn’t be too difficult to point that out, without personally attacking your opponent? Attacking someone like this is “wrestling against flesh and blood” to say the least. Apparently you disagree with what Andrew is saying in these videos, but at least he concentrates on the issues involved and he doesn’t personally attack people, or say they’re not saved. If you disagree, OK, but then please indicate what’s wrong.

  7. Luane Nov 1st 2010

    Andrew,

    I am sorry to see that you have been misquoted with words liike “devil incarnate” and such that, I must say, I have never heard you using in your write ups. I haven’t a clue who Rick Torres is but shoo! those are biting (ungraceful) words coming off the page from him. I have to say that I find comfort in your warnings Andrew, so please do not take heed of such comments as this posted above. I am definitely a born-again, Spirit-filled believer – pursuing a grace-led walk with God – trying to keep my eyes on Jesus – and yet………. I am most concerned with what I see going on in the body of Christ nowadays. Thank you for your warnings which in fact are most often just confirmations of what I (and many others) already am wary of. The Lord bless you and protect you and your family.
    Shalom
    Luane
    South Africa

  8. Andrew,

    Your video on this subject is spot on. Do not let satan try to stop you. The people that think that this mockery is fine, do not know where they are heading.
    Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    So many are deceived, and they try to deceive the rest.
    Please continue, there is not much time left.
    We will pray for you.

  9. Andrew,
    How I wish I had an email for Mr. Torres. I would love to tell him how I HAVE experienced ALL the guys he mentioned (except John Crowder he came along after I got wise to them) I used to spend all my vacations and extra money chasing after these people, thinking I was chasing after God. I even moved to Kansas City to be part of IHOP and the (now known as) false revival there. I have had my share of fire and oil and drunkenness. What freaked me out was, in Kansas City a lady came to the revival who had just gotten saved from being in the UNITY cult all of her life. Her parents and grandparents were part of it. I remember taking her to a revival meeting and in the middle of the “worship”, as they sang the same song over and over, she asked me “why are they chanting?” “thats just like what Unity does, why would Christians do that, thats so New Age”. She asked me the same question several times in the service. Then came the “prayer time” at the end and she said to me, this is just like New Age. I do not want to go back there. Then she said “I can not stay her” and she got up and literally ran out. She started attending a Charismatic baptist church down the road and loved it. She is still there in that church today.

    I also had a encounter with one “laughing evangelist” who I followed for several years and even worked for. He told me, “I love you because your my ringer. If no one is laughing I can always get you laughing and people think the Holy Spirit is here. You are so easy”. I walked out that night and I have never gone back.

    Now fast forward 8 years and I am in another country and working with a group of about 8 former Yogis, New Agers etc. I showed them a video of John Crowder. NOT YOUR VIDEO, John Crowders own video. There reaction was the same. Why would people who CLAIM to be Christians do all that stuff if the power they have should be stronger then any New Age power.

    The TRUTH is people of the world are looking at us and laughing and saying we are no different then all the other crazies. If we let the Holy Spirit work and let God be God Amazing things happen, we do NOT have to work up froth, snot and spit!!

    Andrew, I have said this for YEARS and no one listens to me. I pray they will listen to you even if they do not want to. My best advice to you, dont react at all, just keep doing what God gives you to do. You see even if I had Mr. Torres email address I would not answer him. I would not give him that because it would take my time and energy that in my opinion would be better spent.

    Keep up the good work Andrew!

    Blessings,
    Ann Clarkson

  10. Sarah Nov 1st 2010

    We always get resistance when we warn against something which might get people offended…
    Somehow I have the feeling it’s not a bad thing to get resistance… when people who use that kind of language to resist you it might be a good reason to rejoice because some christians are about to wake up.
    I never knew Ihop did these things too…. Seems like there has to happen a lot of cleaning up in my little country then…

  11. Ken Arrand Nov 1st 2010

    Andrew, in gentleness continue to content for the faith.

    Jude 3 “I exhort you to contend for The faith that was delivered to the saints.”

    2 Timothy 3: 12 In fact all those who want to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. Evil people and imposters will become worse, deceiving and being deceived, but as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed.

    2 Timothy 2: “4 The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, but must be gentle to everyone, able to teach, and patient, instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance to know the truth. Then they may come to their senses and escape the Devil’s trap, having been captured by him to do his will.

    Shalom!

  12. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather – expose them
    Ephesians 5:11

    That says it all. Andrew is right.
    NOT to warn the sheep of danger is hatred of the sheepl.

  13. chris abbott Nov 1st 2010

    hi andrew
    keep on exposing what i believe are the false spirits invading the church. jesus said false miracles and teachers would arise in the last days deceiving even the elect. even the apostle paul warned of false teachers,i got sucked in to the word of faith lot years ago but thank god he showed me the error of them as somebody has already said a bad tree can not bear good fruit.
    shalom

  14. THANK YOU BROTHER FOR BEING WILLING TO TAKE A STAND FOR THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!
    MORE PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE “CHURCHES”, THEY ARE BEING DECEIVED! THEY WILL NEVER WAKE UP UNLESS THEY ARE TOLD THE TRUTH!!! A SISTER, JEAN

  15. We should expect to be attacked when we expose what is false. Be encouraged my friend – continue “contending for the faith that was once entrusted to the saints.” (Jude v.3).

  16. Roxylee Nov 1st 2010

    Mr. Torres says the folks running discernment ministries have a religious spirit. What spirit do all the floor writhers, belly kickers, and head jerkers have, while at their religious meetings? Methinks they’ve got it backwards.

  17. As a prophet of God I can only say, we must be obedient to God’s Word which instructs us to “prove all things” in order to know and “hold fast to that which is good” and also to know and to “avoid the very appearance of evil”!

    Personally I have found over the last 30 or so years that when the prophets and teachers of falsehood are subjected to being “proven” they react rather nastily by calling us “heretic hunters”, “religious spirited” and other things.

    One indicator I have found to be most helpful is how a minister or ministry that is being examined, reacts or responds to being “proven”.

    Look, things either line up with God’s Written Word or they don’t. If they do, then we should embrace them. If they don’t then we must be obedient and have nothing to do with them!

    Many blessings!

  18. Please do not stop exposing the sheep in wolves clothing!! We need watchmen like you to warn us of the dangers that are lurking everywhere to deceive many.

    The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 1Timothy 4:1

    For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3

    We can only pray that the eyes of these people are open and that the truth of God’s Holy Word is revealed to them.

    Stand Strong and Stand Firm

  19. OLDFLYGIRL Nov 1st 2010

    I accept your warnings in these videos as true. I have seen the harm done to faithful believers who get involved in these ‘ministries’, so-called.

    Thank you for standing up for Truth. The attack on you is further proof of a ‘lying spirit’ that surrounds these people. It is truly sad. I believe it is all part of the last days apostasy in the Church.

    Keep up your work, knowing you are warning the sheep of danger. May God bless your ministry, Andrew!

  20. Darren Sargent Nov 1st 2010

    1Jn 2:9 Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.
    1Jn 2:10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling.
    1Jn 2:11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

    1Jn 2:18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
    1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
    1Jn 2:20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.
    1Jn 2:21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth.
    1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
    1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
    1Jn 2:24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
    1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he made to us–eternal life.
    1Jn 2:26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
    1Jn 2:27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie–just as it has taught you, abide in him.

  21. Roxylee Nov 1st 2010

    Years ago I attended an IHOP conference in which Heidi Baker was one of the featured speakers. I met her and she seemed to be a very caring woman with a heart for the poor. What turned me off, however, was the methods used to drum up financial support for her ministry. Before she spoke about the miracles in Kenya, an obviously professional front man talked at length, giving a glowing testimonial of her work in the mission field. He pulled every heart string he could find, used guilt and manipulation tactics, practically browbeating the audience to write the biggest check they could afford. All during this, Heidi was laying prostrate on the steps of the altar, sobbing. At the close of her speech, the guy came back out to say they had collected over $10,000 from that one session. God’s people are very generous, and some ministries sure know how to work a crowd.

    I’d already felt uncomfortable during the weekend, what with people trying to zap me with the laughter thing, dancers invoking a “banner anointing” over the audience, and another woman speaker screaming and jumping around while looking for people in the front rows to prophesy over. She chose my former pastor’s wife, who was sitting next to me, and when touched, she began to jerk and shake uncontrollably.

    Before going to this meeting, I’d prayed to be protected against anything that was not of the Holy Spirit, and I was protected. In another meeting, a woman asked if she could pray for me, and she did, for about 45 minutes, I assume with the hopes I’d “receive the anointing.” I watched a guy from my former church fly backwards and hit the floor after being touched once by this woman, and I was amused at her perplexity that it wasn’t working with me.
    Needless to say, I repented for giving any money to this organization, and shortly afterwards began researching the roots of this movement. It is clearly a mockery of the Holy Spirit and is now easy to discern.

    We don’t need to be afraid of these people. The Bible tells us simply why so many are deceived:

    2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false…

    If we love God’s truth, as taught in the Bible, we will be kept safe from delusions.

  22. Clare Watts Nov 1st 2010

    Dear Andrew,
    We are taught to test the spirits. They have been tested and found wanting by the Word and the Spirit. We are told to expose the unfruitful works of darkness….you have done so. You are a good and faithful servant.

    Do not be afraid of the faces. If God is for you, who can be against you.

    Isaiah 54:17, Romans 8:31, 2 Cor,10:3-5, Psalm 31:20.

    God bless you, brother,

    Clare

  23. Linda Taylor Nov 1st 2010

    Thank you Andrew for continuing to stand up for the truth. I was once (as a new Christian) caught up in this circus and did not know enough of the word to know better.

    I pray to God that He will continue to uphold you as you go about warning people of the dangers. I am copying your messages and forwarding them and they are being forwarded on to others including pastors.

    Don’t be weary of doing well.

    Love in Christ

  24. Tom M Nov 1st 2010

    DISCERNMENT OF SPIRITS: we ain’t got none! In general there is no discernment of spirits in the Charismatic / Pentecostal circles that I have been exposed to. And they don’t want any either. The sheep are starving for the things of God. Since they can’t tell the source-and sometimes are taught not to try-they sometimes fall for counterfeit spirits. Jesse Penn Lewis, THE WAR ON THE SAINTS, attributes this to the fall of the 1904 Welsh revival. I attribute the lack of discernment to the failures of the Charismatic / Pentecostal revivals.

  25. marilynk Nov 1st 2010

    Andrew, I attended a meeting two years ago to hear John and Carol Arnott minister. As I watched these very things happening around me and not being effected by it I wondered what was wrong that I was not feeling it. Whatever it was. The work you are doing is important to the body. I had a friend watch te videos last week because our pastor went to a pastors conferance at Bill Johnson’s Chuch in Redding. She shared with me that she had gone to a revival within 15 miles of where we live and witnessed the very things in the video. She and her husband shocked when they saw the videos, but said it explained so much about that meeting. Thanks for all of the hard work that goes into what you do. Marilyn

  26. I have personally had the privilege of meeting Andrew and his lovely family and spending a little bit of time with them on more than one occasion. They are truly caring people and have made sacrifices to do the work of the Lord. Andrew’s heart ‘is’ for the Body of Christ. I challenge Mr. Torres to back up his opinions and his practices in the Word of God for the Word of God is always the final authority. I pray that those who are forwarding the video’s to Mr. Torres will get into the Word of God and seek the truth for themselves directly from the Word of God and not just blindly accept Mr. Torres’ statement.

    Keep up your work Andrew, for the sake of the Body of Christ. It is apparent, quoting Mr. Torres- (“others have already decided that folks like John and Lily Crowder, Ben and Stephanie Dunn…, James Goll, Bob Jones, Todd Bentley, Matt Ford, Georgian and Winnie Banov, Randy Clarke, Che Ahn, Lou Engle, Bill and Beni Johnson, Heidi and Roland Baker, and others, are the devil incarnate…”) that some are realizing the truth and they are walking away from such practices.

    I found your video’s to be very enlightening and had to personally repent and renounce in a couple of areas where I had gotten involved in Kundalini in the church that we attended many years ago. Although, no longer involved and realizing long ago that it was not in scripture, it was a real eye opener to find that there is a name behind those practices. Give your lovely family our best. Blessings to you and your family.

    Mike and Barb

  27. Darren Sargent Nov 1st 2010

    Linda Taylor
    MarilynK
    Roxylee
    Ann Clarkson

    Ladies, I think it important for all of you to record your testimonies involving these things. It’s important not to just have Andrew’s word for it. Can I really encourage you to record it orally in MP3 format, write it up in a blog or start a thread here. I’ve already cut and paste Roxy’s and Ann’s experiences (that ok ladies?) into a word doc, so that when we discuss these things with fellow believers we don’t resort to vague generalisations but refer to real people whom God has delivered out of this spirit. Be as honest and factual as you can. I think it would be a great benefit to the body. The same can be said of anyone who has had involvement with these practices.

  28. Darren Sargent Nov 1st 2010

    Just yesterday the Lord led me to go to a church in the south west of England (Shaftesbury Christian Centre). I wondered why he had brought it to my mind (as yet I have still not found a church in my local town of Salisbury, so I was doing ‘the grand tour’ of churches, still am!). As the worship progressed I was able to worship but at some point it just fell away from me. The songs were mainly feel good songs with just one song that you could sink your teeth into. There was a lot of repetition of the choruses.

    Nevertheless, in the the front row there was a middle aged gentleman with hands raised up and knees rhythmically buckling underneath him and head somewhat sinking into his neck. His head started to shake from side to side as this happened until at several points in worship he emitted a sharp piecing bark/pant that was not of earthly origin. It sounded like an animal.

    No one said a word. No one batted an eyelid. No one tested the spirits. I was aghast, really. This was the first time I had seen this type of manifestation in the flesh. I fear for this fellowship, really I do. Next weekend they have IHOP coming to their church in a large tent with Wes Hall and contingent.

    My conclusion?

    These evil spirits hide in plain sight where they cannot be touched, namely in worship. They use worship as cover.

  29. Richardc Nov 1st 2010

    Before Todd Bentley and Lakeland imploded, warnings were given by many including Brother Andrew. It was God’s mercy that allowed Lakeland to happen and then be subsequently exposed as false. He is trying to tell those who are being deceived to ‘get out’.

    Matthew 24:25-27 (New International Version)
    25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

    26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

    During Lakeland the same things were being said. Those who opposed false movements were called ‘heresy hunters’, ‘accusers of the brethren’, or of a ‘religious spirit’ (Personally I think a ‘religious spirit’ is one who sees an image in a sandwich or looks for any outward display to justify God unto themselves. If you have God in you, this stuff would never move you.) Even after the fallout, those who warned about Lakeland while it was at its apex are still being called the same names and are accused of the same things. The letter written here is in like manner as other nasty letters written during the Lakeland deception, they are designed to frighten and intimidate people like Andrew into falling back from the truth being displayed. Andrew, do not shrink back! Keep on with the same intensity as the opposition.

    Sensuality is man’s answer to just about anything abstract or confusing. ‘Feeling good’ is the normal path for fallen man to be ‘spiritual’. The foolishness of the cross wasn’t written to only supposed unbelievers, but ALL who are perishing. These movements are in direct contradiction and opposition to the truth of the cross that Paul preached, the true cross of the true Jesus. My prayers are with Andrew and all others who are exposing these obvious false movements. I have read many testimonies, some on this site, from those who have been plucked from this fire of deception. They can vouch for those like Andrew who are sincerely crying out with a broken heart to all who are following a lie. God’s mercy showed us the clear falseness of Lakeland, but the enemy doesn’t sleep, and almost immediately began to rebuild. And so here we are two years later dealing with the same issues and some of the same people who endorsed Lakeland. I don’t know if the man who wrote the letter was caught up in Lakeland but it seems apparent that he is promoting the same falseness and attacking those who oppose it.

    Andrew, you seem to be at the forefront of taking on this falseness directly. Others would rather hide behind some obscure scripture to justify their silence, but in their heart they know the truth at hand. The truth is that if people would have stepped up like this in the mid to late 90’s many more may have been spared the damage of overcoming this evil. The reason we are at this point now isn’t because something was said and the false doctrines of these movements were challenged, but because many were silent when they knew better. Having been exposed to this yourself and having seen the truth thereafter, you are well within your right to continue. A true prophet is without honor within his own house…so much so that they were killed for their offense. One was put on the cross for it. Turns out this is the same Christ many are maligning with their New Age sensualities as if Jesus was their strong wine or personal anesthesiologist. Stay vigilant and we must all pray that those being deceived by this will be plucked out in God’s mercy.

  30. Sherry Nov 1st 2010

    Brother Andrew,
    Greetings in the precious name of Jesus. Thanks for sharing and warning the body of Christ of things that are going on in the name of Jesus. Continue on my Brother in telling forth what you hear and what you see. Declare it. You are like a Watchman warning the Body of Christ. We are definitely living in the last days and there are wolves in sheeps clothing. There are people who genuinely love the Lord and have been caught up in this deception. We need to definitely test the spirits and see what the word of the Living God says. Lets look at the Book of Acts, the early Church. Discernment is what is needed. I, at one time, was very gullible and believed everything someone said. I now check it out with the word of God. We need to definitely pray for ones who are involved in this deception. I am praying for you as you continue on speaking the truth. You are on the front lines and if God be for you who can be against you. I thank the Lord for you and for you being as a trumpet. God Bless you and your family! In Christ, Sherry

  31. Roxylee Nov 1st 2010

    Sure feel free to share my letter around. The truth should be told.

  32. To Andrew and the rest of the body of Christ…don’t worry about the negative comments re the kundalini video….People just literally not know the danger. WE have a bro up here who got involved years ago thru the new age movement. This snake demon was almost up to his neck. He lived on Prana energies and had a 5 lb.crystal that would whir like a helicopter in answer to questions. A shoe hanging from a lace would also answer his questions and even told him how to fix his car! Unfortunitely for the demons they were unmasked when they told him to go to a higher level by putting a knife in his wifes back ( ever wonder about the strange murders that happen in society and the REAL reason behind them?) This man now ministers from our area since becoming one of the most outstanding Christians and advocates against this phenominon! Christians who do not study to show them selves approved unto God will be swollowed up by this New Age deception that is rampant in our society. 30 yrs ago I wondered how the book of Revelation would happen …now we know….most of society is snookered by tv. gurus in disguise like Oprah and others like her…..It is the churches JOB to warn people and if they don’t like it they can take it up at the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT! As for me and my house we will serve the LORD. I really suggest Andrew that you get Jaryls testimony on tape….Then people will hear it from the horses mouth…..email me if you want his number…his story is one of a whole church praying this man into the kingdom since he was a radio broadcaster for the Olympics …he has quite a testimony of Gods Saving grace. A simply amazing story that would come from one who has experienced this at its depths on the other side….and now serves the Savior! Blessings!

  33. Darren Sargent Nov 1st 2010

    Yes we have to get these testimonies down and out somehow. We can’t leave it to Andrew all the time. Allison, what was Jaryl’s full name?

  34. Andrew:

    Why do these thousands of young people (and even some older) flock to these men and women?

    Simple–but overlooked.

    This generation has been raised on complete “self-focus”. It is all about feeling good, all about self. These movements all share one thing in common. It is all about US at the center. They are not worshiping God, they are worshiping at the shrine of self-fulfillment and practicing the same religion as those who are addicted to alcohol, drugs, or sex.

    When I speak with our younger generation, this is what come across all the time–their need and desire to fulfill all their dreams and goals and inner urges.

    Why are we surprised, brethren, when most of us were raised in selfishness? When we were taught that worship is for us–to make us feel good. Our self-focused worship is what I experienced growing up as a young man in pentecostal churches. We began the practices, and now this self-absorbed generation, which we raised!–is off seeking even more and higher levels of addiction to feelings! Why are we surprised?

    And when they come out of the other side of the churches–the high liturgy group–they have the same urge. They see these movements as a “happy pill” that will deliver them from dead religion.

    The Scripture tells us that religion, in all its forms, whether the “ecstasy movements” such as the eastern mystics practice, where they seek higher levels of consciousness–in other words, they focus again on “self”–or the esoteric brands, which by self-denial focus again on self (and Paul warns us about these), is dead and worthless and of no account to the Kingdom of God and Christ.

    We must begin denouncing all religion–because Christ didn’t come to establish another religion. It has been our groundlaying of self-focused religious fervor that has enabled this generation to seek these terrible, satanic routes to personal ecstasy.

    Let’s remember, though, that Christ is all for His people. He gives us joy in our trials, and strength and power by His Spirit to live, not through our worship experiences, but through His presence. He is with us at all times, not just when we “feel good”.

    Love in Christ,

    A. Brother

  35. DavidPetros Nov 1st 2010

    Good day Andrew,

    Keep up the good work. Those of us who have come to know you through your ministry know you send these warnings because you have a heart for God and His church, as well as for the lost…

    I want to thank Mr Torres for supplying us with a list of previously-unknown people to be wary of. If he mentions them in a list associated a.o. with Tod Bently then he has tainted them… not you.

  36. Boydbob Nov 1st 2010

    One of the marks of a cult is the idea that some belief or practice, especially if it’s not found in the word, is the only sign of a true believer. Thus, they are more “spiritual” than those who don’t have their particular “revelation.”

    Thank you Andrew, for exposing this lying spirit. Seventeen years ago the pastor of my church brought in a “Spiritual Drunkenness” video. I was not comfortable with it, but didn’t know to do. I was told I “lacked discernment.” I soon left that church.

    I doubt that these warnings are going to change the minds of those who are convinced that “this is God’s new move,” but for many like myself, it may be the confirmation that what our spirit is telling us is the truth.

    What is the chaff to the wheat? The false prophets have always out-numbered the true prophets of God. (Elijah – 400 to 1) Never the less, the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are His.”

    Boyd

  37. Chris Braid Nov 1st 2010

    Jesus Commands us to Go ! Where is this message in the ministries practicing in the Kundalini Spirit? Nowhere that I can see.
    If we are not about the work that the Father calls us to we miss the mark.
    I for one believe that much of the come and Get ministries forget that we are called to tell the Lost about God’s love for them and how he want’s them to come home to Him. The Great Feast or Party is not for now while the lost are being neglected… We all need to get back on point and drag the lost from the flames and turn those headed down the wide road to destruction…

  38. Late Night Lisa Nov 1st 2010

    David, that’s a great point- Mr. Torres just extended the “watch” list. Hadn’t thought of that one.

    Andrew responded respectfully “in the Spirit” to Mr. Torres “in the flesh” rebuttal. That in its self shows who is Holy Spirit filled & yielded to Christ so that he may be a vessel of God to work though.

    It’s not hard to spot who is walking in Pride & who is walking in Humility.

    Since the spiritual fruit is self evident I hope Christians who are weighing these matters will realize who is speaking truth here.

    Thank you Andrew for being a positive example in how we should handle these types of situations when they arise. When we speak up on these matters it’s guaranteed we’ll be met w/this same type of resistance & responding “in kind” would only ruin our witness for Christ.

    Having a hard copy DVD would be a helpful resource.

  39. AdoptedBrian Nov 1st 2010

    Hi, when i watched the last video i was thinking about how the bible says that one of the fruits of the spirit is Self Control. Well, where is this fruit in these videos? if anything these people seem out of control and un-able to control themselfs.

    The Greek word used for self-control in Galatians 5:23 is egkrateia, which means having command or mastery over, or possession of, one’s own behavior. – i dont see any of this in these videos.

    For me personally, i have been under the power of god many times, but i have never know all this un-controlable behaviour, i’ve always been in control of my body.

    Keep up the good work.

    Brian

  40. marion Nov 1st 2010

    Blessings,
    Thank you brother Andrew for posting! The body is Christ is being deceived, we need to be like the Bearans, if it is not in the Word of God it needs to be rejected, continue to be the Watchman and warn the body of Christ, they that ears shall hear, they that have eyes shall see. You are a blessing to the body of Christ!

  41. 4Jesus Nov 1st 2010

    Whenever you preach the truth, that one is going to come under persecution always. Jesus did, as did his apostles also. And so will we. It just goes along with the territory.

    But we are supposed to do what God tells us, not man always.

    I did not realize it, but my husband and I saw this beginning in a meeting with Rev. Schambach, who is a well known preacher, years ago when people got up to go thru their prayer line. Many doing some of the antics that you revealed on that tape. Just not as much as is now going on at all. I am Pentecostal, and was saved during the Charismatic movement. But that stuff is not of God, our even knowing it back then. As we were going to go thru the prayer line, until we did see this beginning with those that were in the line first, my husband and I looking at each other, and said no way is he touching us. Our knowing somehow, even as young Christians at that time, it was not right.

    People have discernment of these things, if they will just be aware of it. But so often they do not seem to listen when that check in the spirit does come. Trusting someone because of their being well known. We also knew Bob Jones back in approximately the 80’s when he still resided in KC. What a shame he is mixed up in this stuff also. You never know when men will choose fame and fortune over truth though. Which is what so many of these people have done.

    Andrew I commend you for not doing so. As when you came to America we were praying for you then, that you would not do so. And praise the Lord you didn’t, but instead, stood up for the truth. God bless you for that. As we also knew that you could have gone with them at the same time, becoming infamous when you did move here. But you made the right choice, praise the Lord. Standing for truth. May god bless you for doing so. As our treasure is supposed to be stored up in heaven, not here on this earth. And yours is. Just as those were that lived when the church began.

    Not everyone has bowed their knees to Baal. But true, many have. And I fear many more will do so too. It says in Mt. 24:24, “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that if it were possible they shall deceive the very elect.”

    I don’t think it is possible because it is the very elect of God that will know in their spirit when something is not right. But who are the very elect. I believe it is those that Peter was talking about in the 1st chapter of 2nd Peter.

  42. Khandie Nov 1st 2010

    My dear brother,
    First off I am THANKFUL that you, in all the years I’ve been following your ministry, have not ONCE allowed the speech of others, the criticism, ridicule and the like to sway you from continuing to speak forth the TRUTH that the Lord’s sheep could come out of rotted pastures (false doctrines, false ministries and the like) that are destroying them spiritually rather than feeding them and helping enhance spiritual growth, and begin feeding upon TRUTH, the actual MEAT of God’s word! PRAISE THE LORD for your faithfulness in Him and for your love of the sheep!

    With regards to the above article, here is yet another example of calling that which is good, evil and that which is evil, good. Mr. Torres has stated in the above article that “some are genuinely concerned about things they do not understand”, well to clarify, I am NOT one of those who “do not understand”, I understand this “movement” perfectly and bottom line is it is NOT OF GOD! Where do I draw my conclusions? FROM THE WORD! There is no place in the word where any of these things took place and the only ones in the word who behaved in such manner (shouting, screaming, panting like dogs, etc.) were considered possessed and the demonic spirit was called out of them. There is no where in the word where people were “drunk in the spirit” (that is a bazaar term and I don’t even like using it). In the book of acts, on the day of Pentecost, divided tongues of fire sat upon each member there and they all began to speak with other tongues. Those who were witness to this were confused because they heard them speaking in their own native language, and they couldn’t understand how they knew their native tongue without of course studying the language and so they gave glory to God, however there were SOME there that mocked this and stated that those who were speaking in other tongues were “full of new wine” (Acts 2:5-13) I believe this scripture has been misinterpreted and this is where many get the term “drunk in the spirit”, however again the bible did not state they were as such, the word stated that some “mocked” they were simply because they could not understand how they were speaking in other tongues.

    If anyone is walking according to the Spirit and not of the flesh, such can CLEARLY see that this movement, and things that are being done in this video is NOT of God. One must ask his or herself, why would the Holy Spirit of God represent himself in such a manner? The bible states that the signs that would follow them that believed were “In HIS NAME they shall cast out demons, speak with new tongues, lay hands upon the sick and they would recover,” etc. NOTHING reference to running around in a building shouting and screaming, crawling around on all fours, laughing hysterically, shaking, trembling, speaking as if speech has been slurred by alcohol, etc. etc. In my opinion, such things are a MOCKERY of the Holy Spirit and not a confirmation of His AWESOME PRESENCE. Many who are involved in this foolishness would say “God is doing a new thing” however even this is scriptually incorrect as according to the word I’ve studied for over 30+ years, HE is the SAME today, yesterday and forever! Where does this “new thing” fit in scriptually?

    Those that are following this movement and movements like this must be very careful of the spiritual doors they are opening as the devil will slip through even a crack if left open and reek all manner of havoc. This is a movement of the FLESH and NOT of the Spirit! It is clearly visible as such and anyone who’s unable to see this is not walking according to the Spirit!

    Bless you always Andrew my dear brother! I pray for you daily as I know you are doing the work of the Lord and there has been many and will continue to be many that shall come against it but PRESS ONWARD dear brother for The Lord will indeed say to you..”Well done my good and faithful servant”

  43. StandingWithYouAndrew Nov 2nd 2010

    I am Standing with you Andrew, and your lovely family. I thank God for your willingness to be obedient to what He has called you to do. I am part of a church where I feel very alone; your courage gives me courage. Thank you.

  44. Ong Lao Nov 2nd 2010

    Andrew, Your response to Torres was that he dosent know you. Can you say that you know any of the people you are coming against? Basically I agree that most of them are going way off from any sane version of the Gospel, with the possible exception of Randy Clark, but have you addressed them personally? If not that puts you in the same place as Torres.

  45. I THANK GOD THE FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIT for Andrew Strom!!! How can people preach the Gospel without Repentance? Hey I can agree that it takes the Love of God to bring people to initial salvation, but what about growing and maturing in Christ? Is the Body supposed to endless chase around an “Anointing” by the laying on of hands when they already have Christ within them? It shows the foolishness of the Luke Warm American Institutions to create this false dependence. I want the REAL Fire in the Eyes Sword in the Mouth Yeshua Messiah from Nazareth Back!!! And Andrew is one of the only people who are going to recognize Him when He shows up!!! I know of one pastor that is in deep sin that had a vision that the Holy Spirit knocked him back 10 feet on stage and he was put on the ground. He thought this was some “new anointing or blessing” from God. IT IS THE CHASTISEMENT and CORRECTION of God!!! He is about to get personally rebuked by the Almighty. Who knows what will happen to these other guys who can’t even speak in tongues without using their Soul. (Boombah Shoobah!!)

  46. James L. Nov 2nd 2010

    The need is great to expose that which is not of the Holy Spirit. Note: Holy Spirit, not putting on shows of animalistic antics, or drunken stupors. The attention in this kind of meeting is on the antics of those being deceived by demonic powers. Where is the glory to God that He is so worthy of? I have been in meetings wheere this type of thing took place, and I immediately prayed for protection and discernment. Shortly after this, I left the meeting, never to go back. I am a Spirit filled, born again, blood bought, ordained minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. As such, and many years of experience, these antics are NOT of the HOLY SPIRIT I know.

  47. As the time grows closer and closer to our Bridegroom’s return, there is going to be an increase exponentially in the polarization between the sheep and the goats. The Bride of Christ is on fire for her Husband Jesus and lives in the fire of His purification. Anyone who is living in the EMOTION of experiences is a foolish bride.

    A clear and concise statement that Christ spoke to me this last year, especially during the Lakeland Florida exhibition, was that the demonstrations we were and are witnessing are coming through the solar plexus, a very soulish center of man. I looked up the reference and it said the following:

    solar plexus
    n.
    1. The large network of sympathetic nerves and ganglia located in the peritoneal cavity behind the stomach and having branching tracts that supply nerves to the abdominal viscera.
    2. The pit of the stomach.

    Then I saw where in the Hindu religion and their beliefs concerning the Chakras the following is stated:

    He, Solar Plexus Chakra, is the area which defines our “self-esteem”. The personality that develops during puberty is housed in this chakra….otherwise known as the “EGO”. Anyone experiencing dysfunction of the third chakra is having difficulty obtaining or maintaining his/her own “personal power”. This intuitive chakra is where we get our “gut instincts” that signal us to do or not to do something. Strong self-esteem is a required for developing intuitive skills.

    Since Holy Spirit revealed this to me, I knew it was something that existed and that we are to understand why we see many people who are demonstrating these animalistic behaviors, and many time after having someone “impart” to them an “anointing” by placing their hand upon their stomach.

    This letter to Andrew Strom from this individual in defense of these soulish manifestations is himself being ruled by the soul realm. Being refined by God’s Fire is not comfortable, mood enhancing, or a party type atmosphere. It is FIRE people! FIRE burns, refines, purifies, IT HURTS! But it is required to transform the Bride into the Wife of Christ, made acceptable and holy for Him. And we must LIVE in His fire every moment of every day. He came to SAVE THE SOUL, not to ignite its passions and motivate its desires for self-esteem! SelfLESSness, not selfishness. Humility, not hilarity. SOBER MINDED, as Andrew so clearly states in the video, no SOUL minded. We need to GET OVER OURSELVES and GET RIGHT WITH GOD! AMEN? AMEN!!!

  48. I strongly agree with Andrew for his warnings to benefit the body of Christ. Some of the charismatic movement has embraced the worship of false signs. They love God but they are being deceived(gold dust and all).”… you will preach the Gospel and these signs shall follow…),deliverance, healing, people being baptize and made disciple.

  49. Donna Nov 2nd 2010

    Thank you brother for shedding God’s light on the darkness. I had not heard of all these odd manifestations before you sent it out the warnings. I am a born again, Spirit-filled believer and had the discernment to know what you exposed is not of God. Jesus is the way the TRUTH and the life. We must know the truth lest we be deceived. So what’s the deal with “soaking prayer?” I recently heard of this and wondered what is going on. I saw it in quotes in a small blurb of a local church (that a friend told me is biblical) but I did some research and it seems odd. Thanks friends.

  50. Jim Bean Nov 2nd 2010

    Dear Brother Andrew,

    We believe that when put to the test, described in the word of God, about how to test a counterfeit anointing or spirit of antichrist (1John 4:1-6), that all of these foolish children are totally deceived (2 John 1:7) and are blatantly the product of this demonic spirit of antichrist that is called “Kundalini”. Beware brothers and sisters (2 Cor.11:2-4) don’t be deceived (1John 2:18-19 & 2 Thess. 2:3-12) by this attack on the character of our brother Andrew Strom. This is nothing more, or less, than the accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10) trying to further seduce (1John 2:26) so called “christians’ who don’t really know Jesus or have a relationship with Him! Neither have they ever heard the true gospel. (1 Cor. 1:18)

    We further believe that these things are also the manifest fulfillment of the parable of the tares and the wheat (Matt. 13:25-30) and unfortunately for the folks that are aligning themselves with these ‘angels (messengers) of light’, (2 Cor. 11:12-15) they are in reality being gathered together into bundles (heretical schisms) for burning…! Selah

    …May the Lord have mercy on us all and deliver us who are His people from the snare of the fowler. Amen (Cp. Hosea 9:7-9 with Psalm 91:3)

    I remain your brother in the love of the Lord Yeshua Messiah (2Thes. 2:13-17),

    jim

  51. Linda French Nov 2nd 2010

    Dear Andrew,

    When I had first watched some of your videos I took this issue to the Lord and begged Him to grant me discernment since some of the leadership who endorse this new “revival” are folks that I both love and respect. I respected you also but knew very little about you. The Lord answered my prayer through Pastor David Wilkerson. In the States all of we Christians have “grown up with him”; we know that he is a godly man, we trust his love for Jesus and have seen the mighty ways God has used him. Pastor David has a you.tube called “Weird Manifestations” where he is speaking to a group of Russian Christians through an interpreter. He spoke sadly and calmly naming incident after incident of this new “revival”. Then he said, that when he looked out over his Time Square church and his own precious hurting sheep, and named the incredible tragedies and heartaches they were suffering, basically what this new “revival” was preaching was an anathema (MY word not his)! Andrew, the more he spoke, the harder it became for him to speak. He finally bowed his head, placed his hands over his face and wept with all his heart. The Presence of the Holy Spirit was so strong that I began to cry, too. At that point, I knew BEYOND ANY DOUBT, that this new movement, regardless of my precious brothers and sisters who endorse it IS STRAIGHT FROM THE KINGDOM OF HELL! I pray for them and I asked God’s forgiveness for myself too, since I had gotten involved to some degree. I both repented and renounced any involvement I have had in it. This is NOT a religious spirit – my brother Rick Torres is deceived. God has also shown me that none of us should be prideful or self-righteous AT ALL that He has shown us the truth but instead pray that our brothers and sisters will see the truth and Jesus will set them free so we can all stand against Satan together! God bless you and your ministry – and thank you!

  52. Stephen St. Louis Nov 2nd 2010

    I said it once before and I’ll say it again. I was at Toronto Airport during their hayday when all this nonsense was going on. I was only 12 or 13 at the time. Not only that but I might even question whether I was truly saved or not. Even I had the discernment to realize that something was DEFINITELY not right, absolutely not of God, and very likely demonic. Now if a young boy can tell the difference between the things of God and things that are not, it totally astounds me that many so called spirit filled christians are being taken in by such an obvious sham. I think the truth is that they want the miracles and signs and wonders but are truly too lazy to do all the soul searching, “on your face before God” time and the wilderness suffering that precedes it all. It’s a “give it to me now” attitude and the only one who’ll respond readily to that kind of attitude is the Devil. God certainly does not. Read your Bible and more importantly get to know your God because the Devil is a genius at twisting scripture to suit his purposes.

    Good on you Andrew for standing true. Persecution only comes to those who are truly standing up for the truth. Courage and Love, Brother.

  53. Daniel Wallace Nov 2nd 2010

    Brother Andrew
    Never give up or listen to lies.
    You are exposing the angel of light and he hates it.
    I have made hard copies of Kundalini warning videos
    1,2,3 and am giving it to anyone who will listen.
    I have seen Jim Goll, Bob Jones, and Todd Bentley
    in person and had to ask Jesus to forgive me for attending those meetings. There are real Christians involved in Moringstar and IHOP. What will it take for them to see the truth and come out before it’s too late?
    Yours in Jesus
    Daniel Wallace

  54. Roger Souden Nov 2nd 2010

    Some one asked about throne room light..?
    It seems to be the website for Rick Cruz Torres site: http://throneroomlight.com/ ..and yes, another name to add to the list of those false teachers

    His articles are also posted on other sites such as ‘Open Heaven’.. ..and even though the content has a pinch of truth – it is twisted to support a belief in another Jesus.

    Beware this man, and use the discernment that God has given each one of us to avoid deception.

    Only the Holy Spirit of God can convict these people of their spiritual error, and it is a spirit that is misleading them away from Christ Jesus our Lord and His truth.

    In Him,
    Roger

  55. Michael Nov 2nd 2010

    Andrew I know but who is Rick Cruz Torrez? What has Rick done, what is he doing in the body of Christ? Why should I even listen to Rick when I do not even know who he is nor do i know anything about him. Is he a follower and practicer of those wired teachings and of those cult like people he deffends. This might not be worth out time to even mention. Jesus said people like this would speak up against us when we followed him and did what he asked of us. So this has to be one of those people.
    Just keep on Andrew because Rick seems to be fullfilling his part in the bible as a……… Lets pray that one day Ricks eyes may be opened to see.

  56. (((sigh))) Blessed are you when you are persecuted for HIS namesake.

    People need to hear the same excuses these people pour from their mouths. Religious spirits???? These are swindlers trying to deceive the sheep!!! Money changers themselves accusing Andrew of making profits? And such audacity…..to say that we are not blood bought!!! Blasphemy, absolute unadulterated pure blasphemy.

    The unsaved world can detect these wolves dressed in sheeps clothing. How tragic that those that call themselves by His name are not able to discern!!

    Wake up folks, it’s time to repent of our idolatry and turn our hearts to the one that we need to fear, the Lord God Almighty who is jealous for our affections.

    Thus says the Lord “You shall have no gods before me”. Those who follow after these wolves, turn and repent and Christ’s light will shine on you.

    IT IS TRUE that there is a counterfeit “holy spirit”. The Lord himself revealed this to me, and had me experience this first hand 10yrs ago.

    love,
    Sarah

  57. joshua Nov 2nd 2010

    I was recently at Voice of the Apostles and this subject was briefly mentioned by Randy Clark. All that was said is that He is putting together a book in response to the Kundalini warning of these videos and book. I personally have benefited from both streams. I have been greatly blessed and strengthened by the ministry of Bill Johnson and Heidi Baker as well as the ministry of this stream such as “Why Revival Tarries, The life of David Brainard, and messages on repentance and prayer from Mr. Strom. Maybe it would do everyone some good to selah on Proverbs 14:4. I believe that sure there are some messes in the charismatic movement but there is also salvation, healing, and deliverance. I cant help but wonder what this forum would have said of Jesus’ ministry when one of his own followers assaulted an officer and another committed suicide.

  58. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    Joshua – all I can say is that I am very glad that these guys are being forced to see and respond to this material. That means they cannot ignore it. I believe any fair person who views what has been going on in these “River”/ Drunkenness meetings has to conclude something is very wrong.

    God bless you! – Andrew.

  59. Olivia Nov 2nd 2010

    Wouldn’t the enemy just love to stop you from warning people about the increasing apostacy in the church today. The LORD has given you discernment and courage to do what He has called you to do … HE is well pleased that you are sounding the alarm to alert the sheep as the Bible commands. I am very thankful that you have pointed out ‘ministries’ and ‘behaviours / teachings’ that DO NOT line up with the Bible. The Apostle Paul did this too … the book of Jude warns us about it as well and our LORD and Saviour, JESUS Himself warned us that many would come in His Name but not to listen … press on brother! Your voice is badly needed in the world today!

    Praying for you and your family often!

  60. Andrew-

    Where is the REST of my loving exhortation to the Body of Christ? For some reason only two paragraphs of the original message the Lord gave me, actually ended up on your site here.

    Here is the original message in its ENTIRE context for those who are after the truth and not the carefully doctored propaganda of the religious spirit:

    Be Blessed!

    Greetings and Throne Room Light to you and yours!

    My super cool brothers and sisters in Jesus continue to send me this video and others like it, on an almost daily basis. Some are sincerely concerned about things they don’t understand; others have already decided that folks like John and Lily Crowder, Ben and Stephanie Dunn, James Goll, Bob Jones, Todd Bentley, Matt Ford, Georgian and Winnie Banov, Randy Clarke, Che Ahn, Lou Engle, Bill and Beni Johnson, Heidi and Roland Baker, and others, are the devil incarnate.

    Still others, like myself, are grieved by the obvious spirit of the accuser associated with videos like these. It is important to understand the source of these materials.

    This particular video series is the product of Andrew Strom, who is a “reformed pentecostal”, otherwise known as a shipwrecked believer. The vast majority of the so called “discernment ministries”, are nothing more than vehicles for the religious spirit. NONE of the self appointed watchmen who have made a BUSINESS out of calling God’s friends and servants heretics, are Spirit Baptized, Blood bought believers.

    Remember, knowledge of the Bible absent of relationship with the Living Word, leads to deception and offense. Saul of Tarsus believed with all his heart that he was serving God by persecuting the radical new sect of upstarts who called themselves followers of Jesus. Here’s what happened when he came face to face with the God he was convinced he was serving:

    “All this time Saul was breathing down the necks of the Master’s disciples, out for the kill. He went to the Chief Priest and got arrest warrants to take to the meeting places in Damascus so that if he found anyone there belonging to the Way, whether men or women, he could arrest them and bring them to Jerusalem.

    He set off. When he got to the outskirts of Damascus, he was suddenly dazed by a blinding flash of light.

    As he fell to the ground, he heard a voice: “Saul, Saul, why are you out to get me?”

    He said, “Who are you, Master?”

    “I am Jesus, the One you’re hunting down. I want you to get up and enter the city. In the city you’ll be told what to do next.”

    His companions stood there dumbstruck—they could hear the sound, but couldn’t see anyone—while Saul, picking himself up off the ground, found himself stone-blind. They had to take him by the hand and lead him into Damascus. He continued blind for three days. He ate nothing, drank nothing.

    There was a disciple in Damascus by the name of Ananias. The Master spoke to him in a vision: “Ananias.” “Yes, Master?” he answered. “Getup and go over to Straight Avenue. Ask at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus. His name is Saul. He’s there praying. He has just had a dream in which he saw a man named Ananias enter the house and lay hands on him so he could see again.”

    Ananias protested, “Master, you can’t be serious. Everybody’s talking about this man and the terrible things he’s been doing, his reign of terror against your people in Jerusalem! And now he’s shown up here with papers from the Chief Priest that give him license to do the same to us.”

    But the Master said, “Don’t argue. Go! I have picked him as my personal representative to non-Jews and kings and Jews. And now I’m about to show him what he’s in for—the hard suffering that goes with this job.”

    So Ananias went and found the house, placed his hands on blind Saul, and said, “Brother Saul, the Master sent me, the same Jesus you saw on your way here. He sent me so you could see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” No sooner were the words out of his mouth than something likes scales fell from Saul’s eyes—he could see again! He got to his feet, was baptized, and sat down with them to a hearty meal.
    ~Acts 9:1-19~ (msg)

    Shortly after this, Paul was himself being hunted by those possessed with the religious spirit. The enemy is STILL enraged that God took one of his favorite pawns and turned him into one of the greatest enemies of dead religion the world has ever known! This same demon harassed the Apostle Paul for the remainder of His life and ministry. He refers to it when he made this often misquoted and mis-taught statement:

    “Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason,to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me– to keep me from exalting myself!”
    ~2 Corinthians 12:7~ (nasb)

    Draw near to Papa God and KNOW Him for yourself. The safest place from deception is moment by moment, breath by breath intimacy with God. Those looking for a formula…an easy way out, by which they may remain safe from deception and be ready for His return…without actually paying the price of knowing Jesus and His Lordship over their WHOLE life, are easy pickings for the religious spirit who is today, still persecuting those teaching and preaching the finished work of the Cross.

    “Kundalini” is associated with Yoga and is obviously not the Holy Spirit.

    KNOW JESUS BETTER THAN YOU KNOW ANYONE ELSE AND YOU WILL NOT BE DECEIVED.

    The ANTI-KUNDALINI videos are not warnings from the heart of Father God. They are the voice of the enemy attacking the very people God has raised up in this hour.

    Please visit the following link to help gain a perspective of this Note:

    http://throneroomlight.com/Writings/jw.htm

    God bless you and keep you, overwhelm you and undo you.

    Your brother in Jesus,
    Rick

  61. harvestisripe Nov 2nd 2010

    Rick – I pray for your deliverance – you are truely deceived when you can look at these videos and tell all here there is nothing wrong with them.

    You are embracing some that are leading many down the wide path toward destruction and there is much more than Yoga concerning the Kundalini spirit.do you not see nor discern the real danger involved with all of his?

    The heart of the father is that non should perish – and I praise God Andrew is exposing those who deceive Chists sheep.

  62. Ken Arrand Nov 2nd 2010

    Rick, just look at the fruit, for you shall know a tree by its fruit.

    The Kundalini spirit shows confusion, disorder, hysterics, lack of self control, lack of gentleness, etc.

    The fruit is bad!!

    Jesus is the Prince of Peace.

    1 Corinthians 14: 33 For God is not of confusion, but of peace

    1 Corinthians 14: 10 – let ALL things be done decently and in order.

    The fruit is bad and the Prince of Peace is not present!

    Rick, ask the Lord yourself, genuinely and honestly to show you what fruit is coming forth (using Galatians 5: 22, 23 as your gauge) and if Jesus is being lifted up, for He is the Prince of Peace.

    Shalom!

  63. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    Nice that you could put your 2 cents worth here, Rick!

    No – I was not really wishing to publish your lengthy article – just the part that was directly aimed at us.

    But good on you for posting it here anyhow.

    Of course we totally disagree with your opinions of the “drunkenness” movement, and believe that it is deception. But thanks for dropping by.

    God bless you!

    Andrew.

  64. Mrs Luther Nov 2nd 2010

    Well said Olivia
    We seriously need to pray for Mr Torres and his
    companions of a similiar spirit

    That the eyes of their heart be opened to the truth of the holiness and santification of our Father, that they may be delivered and truly come to know Him whom they confess.

  65. Hey guys!

    Forget the ridiculous videos for a minute…after all, they are edited by the ones supporting the attack on the children of the King! If you still can’t see the truth of what is going on through Andrew’s “ministry”, you are in dire spiritual straits. I invite Andrew to speak with me one on one, over the phone or in person, or in front of a panel, and we’ll watch God deliver this brother from offense.

    Bless you all:)

    May Throne Room Light Be The Brightness of All Your Days!

    For Awakening,
    Rick

  66. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    Brother – we don’t need to speak behind closed doors – keeping people in the dark.

    The fact is, people are now just seeing the full picture of what your friends have been spreading. Once it is put into the light, everyone can see and discern for themselves that something is very wrong.

    It is sadly so obvious, my friend.

    Please – “come out of her and partake not of her plagues”, my friend. Seriously.

    God bless you!

    Andrew

  67. The Lord just prompted me to correct yet another misleading idea put forth by Andrew on his site here.

    I am not a “spokesperson” for anybody but the Lord Jesus- Who is DEEPLY grieved by the demons of accusation and slander which operate through this counterfeit ministry.

    You will be held to account, Mr. Strom.

    “REPENT, WHILE THERE IS YET TIME.”

  68. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    Hey – we are not treating you with bitterness and hateful words, my friend. Please if you have the love of Christ – you need to show it in the way you speak. Who is the “accuser” here? Who is speaking so bitterly and harshly?

    It is not us.

    Please at least show courtesy and some Christian fruit in your manner of speaking, sir.

    -Andrew.

  69. Andrew…lol…who said anything about “closed doors?”

    Let’s speak face to face in front of a panel of our peers and talk this thing out. I await your response.

    Better yet, lets discuss these issues in person in front of a panel of YOUR choosing.

    The Lord will have His way no matter what.

    I eagerly await your response.

    Rick Cruz Torres
    http://www.throneroomlight.com
    [email protected]

  70. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    Sir – you wouldn’t last half an hour with people on this site. Many have BEEN to these meetings – SEEN these sick things themselves. What are you going to say that will change what they have SEEN?

    I have had literally hundreds write to me from all over the world telling of the awful, sick, ugly things they have seen over and over in meetings run by your friends. How are you going to speak against what they have seen with their own eyes? -They will make “mincemeat” of you, sir.

    -Andrew

  71. Andrew-

    Interesting that you would reflex to a panel of your choosing..lol. And why would “they” need to make mincemeat of anybody?

    I’m inviting YOU, ANDREW STROM, to a one on one conversation in front of anybody you choose. The Lord will have His way, no matter what you decide…this is just a way for you to be delivered and publicly repent from attacking His servants, all at once.

    Again, I await your response with great anticipation.

    God is not through with you, yet.

    Rick ;-)

  72. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    Rick-
    After what Ezekiel saw, don’t you think Ezekiel would be rather sickened if he saw one of the meetings where your friend John Crowder was teaching the kids how to “toke the ghost” and treat the holiness of God like a “marijuana joint” – ‘Jehovawana’, etc?

    How on earth could you liken such things to Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel……? It truly amazes me that you cannot see the “blasphemy” danger of it all, my friend. Sorry.

    -Andrew

  73. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    You mean you want to come to New Zealand?

    -Andrew

  74. Ken Arrand Nov 2nd 2010

    Rick, why should you want to “forget the ridiculous videos”? They show what is happening. Did these or did these not happen? Be real!

    Rick, at some stage you must face reality that this spirit seen on the videos is NOT from our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace.

    Shalom!

  75. Kevin Nov 2nd 2010

    Rick, I speak as one who has seen the power of Christ heal and deliver people over the years.

    Long before these videos came out , some 12 years ago now ,was the first time I saw the counterfiet gifts of the Holy Spirit in operation, and that is what is seen operating on these videos.

    We will all be judged by Christ and Matt 7 : 21>>23 is a warning for you.

    Kevin.

  76. Mrs Luther Nov 2nd 2010

    Andrew

    You wouldn’t need to have a ‘conversation’ you could just fast and pray and cast that thing out.

    Screeming and wretching all the way to the pit,
    from whence it came.

  77. Rachael Nov 2nd 2010

    I am saddened and grieved by this. I have so much to say and I don’t know even where to start.I have written to you Andrew on other occasions concerning some of the things you have posted against IHOP. This last video that you posted “naming names” is really disheartening. :(

    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:13-15

    2 Corinthians 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

    Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
    32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

    2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions [NIV: stupid arguments] avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes [NIV: produce quarrels].
    24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive [NKJV: quarrel]; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
    25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
    26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    The snare of the devil is offense.

    1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

    Philippians 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings [NIV: complaining and arguing]:
    15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

    Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

    Proverbs 30:32 If thou hast done foolishly in lifting up thyself, or if thou hast thought evil, lay thine hand upon thy mouth.
    33 Surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood: so the forcing of wrath [NIV: stirring up anger] bringeth forth strife.

    Proverbs 29:22 An angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man aboundeth in transgression

    Proverbs 28:25 He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

    It is not the will of the Lord for brother to turn against brother. It is not a Godly thing to stir up strife in the body of Christ.
    They will know we are Christian by our love.
    Look at what God HATES.

    Proverbs 6: (16) These six [things] Jehovah hates; yea, seven [are] hateful to his soul; (17) a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, (18) a heart that plots evil plans, feet hurrying to run to mischief, (19) a false witness who breathes lies, and he who causes strife among brothers.

    My own family has been hurt by Christians coming against them for no other reason than the strife that videos like this one have created. My daughter has been attacked publicly at work in front of non-believers by Christians rebuking her for attending IHOP. This is persecution. Are you willing to be part of the persecution on young believers causing them to fall away from their faith in Christ?
    It would be better to have a millstone around your neck~ Jesus

    I pray that every person visiting this site would allow the Holy Spirit to search their hearts. We are entering a time of darkness.
    Brother will turn against brother and children against their parents.
    If you feel the need to “warn” others about all these things you need to get the root of bitterness out of your own heart because it is defiling many with the wrong spirit.
    Even Jesus had to rebuke his disciples for being of the wrong spirit…

    1 Thessalonians 5:11 NIV) Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

    (Philemon 1:7 NIV) Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints.

    (Hebrews 3:13 NIV) But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.

    As far as Rick Torres… This brother in the Lord has been an encouragement to my life. He does not want people hurt by these videos. The videos are taken out of context. It is easy to slam your brother if you are looking hard enough.
    Rick is a true brother and he love Jesus. Please do not judge him by another mans opinion…or any of these men. To their own master they will stand or fall. And He is able to make us stand.
    It won’t happen by disunity and dissentions.
    PERFECT LOVECASTS OUT FEAR !!! WALK IN HIS LOVE.
    ABIDE IN HIS LOVE.

    Andrew, I am praying for you as you are a brother.

    Love in Christ, Rachael

  78. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    Rick – enough of the accusations, my friend. -No more.

    I am NOT – repeat NOT “offended”. I have nothing “personal” in this at all.

    But I believe GOD is offended. And His Bride is being greatly endangered by these spirits and these deceptions.

    You cannot see it – so the only way you can explain it is to say “Andrew is offended and wounded. That is what this is all about.”

    NOT TRUE!! I have no wounding or offense in this at all! Just a knowledge that we must warn the Body when serious deception is invading, And this is serious deception.

    But enough, my friend. I believe YOU are the one doing the “Accusing” here.

    God bless you,

    Andrew Strom

  79. Rachael Nov 2nd 2010

    dis·heart·ened, dis·heart·en·ing, dis·heart·ens
    To shake or destroy the courage or resolution of; dispirit.

    RATHER BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT !!!!

    The Spirit produces in us love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, meekness, faith, self-control, etc. He produces in us the likeness of Jesus Christ

    Are you “under the influence?” What characterizes your life?

  80. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    Rachael – what did Jesus or Paul or Peter do when deception threatened the people of God?

    Did they stay silent or did they warn in the strongest possible terms?

    -Andrew

  81. “What you have done to the least of them, you have done unto Me. David would not speak out or raise his hand against Saul, even though he was greatly evil, due to the anointing that had been on him at one time. Saul killed priests, tried to have David killed, yet out of respect for the anointing that had been on him, he did nothing. You have no respect of anyone who does things that you do not understand with your carnal mind, Andrew. You judge after what you see, hear, and think, and not by My Spirit. You are not walking in love toward the least of your brothers. There is very little love in what you say and do. You do not understand grace and mercy due to deep bitterness in your heart. And I will not tolerate your course of action much longer, because you are wounding My Body”

  82. Andrew Nov 2nd 2010

    I don’t think its “Love” to say nothing and just allow Christ’s precious sheep to be terribly deceived.

    -Andrew.

  83. Ken Arrand Nov 2nd 2010

    To JS and Rachael

    2 Timothy 4: 1-4 : I charge you before God… to preach the Word in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth and turn aside to myths.

    Jeremiah’s call was to “root out, pull down, destroy, throw down and to build and to plant” Jeremiah 1:10

    Paul’s instruction to Timothy and God’s call to Jeremiah are both founded on a love for the purity of the Word and God’s righteousness and holiness. If you KNOW God, and KNOW God’s character, you will discern what is from God and what is not from God.

    I repeat, look at the fruit evidenced from the videos. What fruit is evidenced – do the people on the video KNOW God (with good fruit and King of Righteousness in evidence) or are they following and being led by another spirit.

    Shalom!

  84. Rachael Nov 2nd 2010

    Isaiah 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

    Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
    23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

    John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
    2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

    Matthew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
    22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

    Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
    17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.
    18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
    19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

    The days are dark and getting darker.If we do not choose to walk in love we will persecute our brothers. This is a dangerous time for all of us. We should prefer one another in love and be praying for one another to withstand what is coming.
    Pray for those who curse you…pray and do not curse.
    It is time that we heed the words of Jesus and begin to pray for eachother. We all need eachother.

  85. watchful Nov 2nd 2010

    If you’re reading on this thread James Jarjou, How I praise the Lord for His lovely, perfect wisdom and how He speaks to His children in such perfect love. We are so blessed to be able to drink from such a deep well of pure living water, thank you Jesus for this brother and your words of life..oh help us Father to be doers of this word and not hearers only, that is my prayer this morning, that we would keep moving on, keep following you where you are leading us on that upward call..to POSSESS the Truth in Jesus your beloved Son, and not just ‘know’.

  86. Ken Arrand Nov 2nd 2010

    JS

    Please note that Jesus even corrected false and blind teachers, scribes etc. calling them “Woe to you blind guides”, “Woe to you blind fools”, “Woe to you blind men” etc. It is strong words from Jesus!

    See Matthew 23:13-27

    Jesus has a concern that the sheep are not led astray – just as Andrew is doing.

    Was Jesus loving? HE is our example! Since “God is Love”, the acts were “Love in action”. As a good shepherd HE is protecting His sheep.

    Shalom!

  87. watchful Nov 2nd 2010

    I heard someone say once, that we’re all wrong, and only Jesus is right. The Lord taught me not long ago in my own life that I can be absolutely correct, and yet still be wrong. We will always be ‘wrong’ until we are fully in Possession of Him. I’m just reminded, what was it that Jesus said?..Let the dead bury their own dead, you come follow me.

  88. Rosey Nov 2nd 2010

    Hi Andrew, just read the latest email re:Rick Torres and his disdainful comments against you. Great reply you gave him, even when he accused you of having “no discernment ,but itbieng more a vehicle for a religious spirit”. And another of his offensive comments bieng that guys like you are “not spirit filled and making it a business”.
    Mate keep up the good work, be encouraged and keep pressing on. For it is the Truth that will set people free-eventually. Its guys like you that have got guts,courage to stand up and be counted as speaking the Truth. That is love, when you speak the Truth, for that is what sets people free. God help us all, as we are in such a mess regarding the Church. Its a joke, no its sad, deceptive and when the New agers can tell no differance on seeing that video from what supposedly happening in the church to what is happening in their movement- what a sad indictment on the Church. I was moved to tears watchin video 3 and the 2 guys that were interviewed outside of Todd Bentleys church when they tried to speak out those prophesies, trying to get the guy to face up to what he has done and that its not right and what kind of impression is that leaving on the young lambs in that group. They were sincere and gave those warnings with compassion and were hushed and tossed out on their ears.(Aussie saying) I then watched that other video re: Todds new wife explaining a dream she had of speaking to Oral Roberts (that is so off, we are not to speak to dead people) and giving a prophesy about an elephant?? and she was shaking her head to and fro and letting out a hissing noise. It was so off, I just cant understand how these men and women of God (cause they were once) are so deceived and blinded. Like Isaiah says the watchmen are asleep and are not listening and are not seeing. So thank God, Andrew you are not deceived and I believe the One whom you need to please is saying well done my son, well done. You serve Him well, and are definetly a Voice crying in the wilderness. But your eyes and ears are open. Keep listening to Him and Speak out those Truths that the Holy Spirit directs you to..Pray for our island of Australia that we will not be affected by this, and that we will be that of which Smith Wigglesworth prophesied “The Great Southland of the HOly Spirit………………..Good on you mate….Cheers Rosey

  89. Wingedlion Nov 2nd 2010

    I have studied the Satanic infiltration from Generational Satanists for over 20 years, and the device they imploy when they are brought into the light is to accuse the others of what they themselves are guilty of. This adds confusion to the mix in which they then try to bring about division to the body.

    Andrew is not being “carnal” for warning against the use of occult to deceive the body of true believers. I also feel that those who are in charge of this movement are not hapless victims but they are the infiltrators themselves instigating a rise of the occult to bring the body of Christ into captivity just as Mannesah did to Israel when he introduced devil worship to Israel; which brought Captivity to Israel from Babylon. One should wonder why the Bible calls this counterfeit as “Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots.”

    From what I have seen, 99% of the time, those who rise in defense to the Devil’s devices are themselves under orders to do “damage control” by instigating the devices that have been programmed into them as “sleeper agents” for the darkness. And they use the word out of context to accuse the body of Christ.

    “By their fruits ye shall know them”, if they are bringing forth occult doctrines to the Body, then those people are not our Brothers and sisters in Christ, they are devils, they are wolves in sheeps clothing, and we are in no place in scripture commanded to “love the devil” or to “pray for the wolf”, it is at times when we are being attacked that we are commanded to “stand, having done all to stand.” we are commanded to cast out and to expose the works of the Devil and the workers of the devil. When describing the nature of the tares, the bible is specific, they are “children of the wicked one”. They are generational Satanists who have purposely seared their own conscience so that they can never be convicted of sin in their lives. They curse themselves. Satan never chooses someone to be an infiltrator who could be ever be a danger of them responding to the gospel, they are programmed evil people who have chosen this upon themselves because they hate us, and they hate Jesus Christ. They have about as much chance to “switch camps” as the most dedicated Christian has of embracing child sacrifice and devil worship. Please, Wake up!

  90. Rachael Nov 2nd 2010

    Even Jesus said we should not try to pull up the tares or we may uproot the wheat. The angels at the end of the age will bundle the tares and gather the wheat into the barn ;)
    Jesus knows His own. They know His voice and will not follow another. Many will be deceived because they don’t know Him. He is the Word.He is a protector of His own sheep.
    A day is coming very soon when we will all be persecuted for loving Him. In that day it will not be just name calling and finger pointing but it will be to shedding of blood. In that day we will be called upon to give a witness. Everyone who is not of Him will not stand but will betray others. We need to be praying now that we will be able to stand.
    We need to have the same mind as Christ and when we are reviled, we revile not. We need to pray for those who persecute us now so we will be able to lay down our lives then like Stephen.
    Are we laying our lives down now? Are we praying for those we think are in error? Or are we attacking and accusing?
    There is one accuser of the Brethren. There is also one intercessor that prays for us night and day before the throne.
    Choose carefully who you want to join with.
    How many people have died at the hands of religious folk through the ages? Do you think that it was God ordained?
    Walk in love. Pray. Do the things Jesus told us to do.

  91. Good word Rachael! I agree.

  92. Ken Arrand Nov 2nd 2010

    Rachael – please would you consider this parallel:

    A pick up truck ladden with leaking poisonous chemicals is being driven down the street with many pedestrians along the road that the vehicle is travelling.

    1) We would warn a blind person or any pedestrian if we saw this vehicle ladden with leaking poisonous chemicals racing towards them.

    2) We would try and alert the driver of the vehicle that he is carrying dangerous leaking cargo on board and that the driver should get rid of it.

    3) The leaking poisonous chemicals are deadly.

    4) Some of the pedestrians are not blind and are also trying to warn people of the leaking poisonous chemicals. However many are blind.

    5) Some pedestrians will listen some will not, saying they enjoy the thrill, the emotions, the highs from the fumes, little realising that if they inhale too much it may cost them their lives.

    6) In great, great love Andrew is urging people to look and see the grave danger! (the leaking poisonous chemicals)

    7) Andrew is shouting it from the house tops, from the street corners, to all who pass by, showing a video of the leaking poisonous chemicals and its effect on people. It is not fresh pure water but lethal chemicals.

    8) Andrew is also trying to warn the drivers of the vehicles but that appears much more difficult, so he is concentrating on the pedestrians. Perhaps a few drivers are intent on destroying lives but many are not and are unaware of what they are carrying!

    9) Is Andrew wrong in warning the people? Should he be quiet? Should Andrew allow the leaking poisonous chemicals to destroy lives?

    10) The evil is the poisonous chemicals NOT the driver or the pedestrians. In this case the poisonous chemicals is the “unrighteous spirit” invading the “organised church”.

    11) Together we can get rid of the poisonous chemicals/ ungodly spirit.

    12) Our sincere, heart pleading prayer to our Almighty and gracious God is that believers will see the leaking poisonous chemicals / ungodly spirit and turn away from it.

    This is a parallel which I pray might help you, Rachael.

    Shalom!

  93. harvestisripe Nov 2nd 2010

    Rick – you are blinded to the – TRUTH – and truely are not a mouthpiece for the – LORD – here – So why have you come?

    Are you here to make yourself known – you keep posting your – LINK – to your webb site asking the saints here to come to it??

    Me things you just like a good fight and to bring disruption to the body of Christ – you certainly are not here to protect Christ’s sheep but to deceive and bewitch them.

    Here is a scripture the – Holy Spirit – gave me this morning concerning our involvement with you – and the men and women you you are defending here such as – Todd Bentley – Crowder – Paterica King – Bob Jones – and worse yet the spirits of darkness that follow these people and the kudilini spirit.

    This shows your character and that you are not a child of the light but have come to bring darkness and accuzations here against the children of the light here on this webb site trying to seduce them with unholy deception and with men. who bring with them great darkness and evil spirits.

    Saints have nothing to do with them! Their consciences are siered and they follow after droctrines of demons.

    These scriptures describes these men in question

    EPHESIANS 5
    3 Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people.

    4 Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God.

    5 You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

    6 Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins,

    for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.

    7 DON’T participate in the things these people do.

    8 For once you were full of darkness, but now you have light from the Lord. So live as people of light!

    9 For this light within you produces only what is good and right and true.

    10 Carefully determine what pleases the Lord.

    11 Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them.

    12 It is shameful even to talk about the things that ungodly people do in secret.

    13 But their evil intentions will be exposed when the light shines on them,

  94. harvestisripe Nov 2nd 2010

    Sorry that should say – NICK – not Rick

  95. harvestisripe Nov 2nd 2010

    Ezekiel 33
    6 But if the watchman sees the enemy coming and doesn’t sound the alarm to warn the people, he is responsible for their captivity. They will die in their sins, but I will hold the watchman responsible for their deaths.’

    ANDREW KEEP SOUNDING THE ALARM – its time these tares be exposed full trrottle – this truely is a spiritual battle and the demonic hordes are loosed in great anger – for santan comes to steal kill and destroy the great deciever master of lies and he will use those he can to upsur the righteous – BUT GOD’S GOT AN ARMY! and we are battle ready truely with out spiritual armor and the God of Heaven as our defender.

    May the Lord Bless you and keep his mighty hand of Protection upon you as you continue to fight for Christ’s sheep against the darkness that surrounds us.

    Lynn

  96. harvestisripe Nov 2nd 2010

    Truely with – OUR – spiritual armor

  97. Benjo Nov 2nd 2010

    I want to leave a message for Darren Sargent.
    Darren try the Elim church in Salisbury, it seemed sound the last time I was their (6 years or so ago)
    Just to say I know which church you are referring too as I also went their back in 1994 – 1995 when the Torronto Revival occured.
    I was prayed for and at the end of the meeting I was unable to get up. I had to be carried into the car and back into my bedroom at boarding school.
    My parents left me trusting that I would be alright.
    It was after they left that I had an image in my mind of a leering face of pure evil. It felt like this being wanted to possess me and consume me. It was then in this picture that I sort of zoomed back to the foreground where I stood.
    I believe I saw two angelic beings with swords crossed, keeping this demonic creature back.
    I have always wandered why, if this was a move of God, that I would be given such an image, which did in fact look a bit like some sort of Hindu false god.
    Now I know, thanks to Andrew and others like him this spirit wanted to jump upon me and take possession. Thank the Lord for His protection.
    I have since renounced this and repented. Now all these years later I find it in the church I attend in Bath, who follow Bill Johnson in a big way.
    I have warned the leadership about Bethel and their teaching and antics but have been rebuked by them for this.
    Where does one go from here? It is present in virtually all the western charasmatic churches!

  98. HisMessenger Nov 2nd 2010

    Beyond conveying the word of the Lord “You are not to defend yourselves”….The Lord – the TRUE Lord Jesus Christ would say unto ALL: “ASK ME. For truly if YOU ARE MINE you KNOW MY VOICE. How can any say they are Mine if they do not hear?” When Andrew speaks, is it the Lord speaking through him? When Rick speaks, is it the Lord speaking through him? Jesus ONLY SPOKE THAT WHICH HE HEARD THE FATHER SPEAKING. His representatives MUST DO THE SAME OR SPEAK NOT.

    There is something seriously wrong with a body who is not hearing. If you hear a thing, then ask HIM, you then KNOW HIS TRUTH.

    There is something seriously wrong with a body that speaks forth ANY sort of thing, calling it HIM but instead representing Him NOT.

    To speak a false word is death:

    Deuteronomy 18:20
    But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

    EVERY WORD WE UTTER MUST BE HIS.

    The Lord commands we are not to defend ourselves – in fact He will not defend us if we do. If you are faithful to be the vessel through whom He speaks, He can take care of all that follows.

    Submission – humility – truth.

    Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. – Matthew 5:11

  99. Hanna Nov 3rd 2010

    HI Andrew: the videos you do are always good. You will always have naysayers and even abusive “Christians” attacking, but do not let that stop you. Be blessed, Andrew.

  100. Khandie Nov 3rd 2010

    Wow!!!!!!!! I am completely baffled that anyone who witness this sort of behavior on video or within their own congregation would literally endorse it and stand firm in their endorsement!! Ken said it best when he spoke of the “FRUITS” this sort of thing produce, my goodness open your spiritual eyes!!! Come on my dear brothers and sisters who are under the “spell” of this movement, you cannot possibly believe in your heart that The Holy Spirit would demonstrate his awesome power and glory in such a manner as what has been viewed here on this tape and in your own meetings/etc. I am sorry but when I see such things, for me personally it is like a “mockery” of some sort of the Holy Spirit of God and that is why I could never participate in such things. Many in the body of Christ are too quick to accept the “next new thing” without first testing the spirits that are involved. Please, we are not against you but for you which is why brother Andrew sends warnings such as these out because He Loves you, and more importantly He loves the Lord Jesus with all his heart, soul and mind! Which brings me to another point I’d like to make regarding the accusation by a few here that Andrew and others are not walking in love, or speaking in bitterness and/or hate, in all honesty to NOT warn brothers and sisters of impending spiritual danger would be demonstrating a lack of love for them. You warn BECAUSE you love and care for the sheep so to accuse Andrew and others of not loving is absolutely inaccurate. If you had a friend whom you loved who was preparing to drink substance that would poison his/her system would you stand back and watch him/her or would you IMMEDIATELY WARN them? If you had a child that was nearing the edge of a hot stove would you allow that child to be burned, or would you immediately pull the child away from danger? To warn IS a demonstration of Love, not only for the sheep, but our Love for The Lord as well. We would be held accountable if we did NOT warn. 3 times the Lord asked Peter “Do you Love ME”, 3 times Peter stated yes, 3 times the Lord responded “FEED MY SHEEP, FEED MY LAMBS, FEED MY SHEEP” Now he certainly was not talking about food for the stomach, but rather food for the spirit to help nurture them into spiritual growth. The Lord said if you love ME, then feed THEM! This is what brother Andrew has done and continues to do! You must understand how difficult of a position it is to openly expose a lie that the majority seems to follow. The ridicule, the slander, the rejection, and etc. is sure to await the one that stands boldly and proclaim the truth, however the Lord says if you love ME, then feed THEM! Part of feeding is exposing a lie the enemy has brought in the midst of the “church” (body of Christ) and no, not everyone will listen, but if just ONE person escapes the clutches of falsity then exposure was well worth it!

    Please close your natural eyes, and open your spiritual eyes and then you can clearly see the truth!

  101. HisMessenger Nov 3rd 2010

    THUS SAITH THE LORD: “I am not the “author of confusion”. I am the author of “clarity”

  102. God’s Word itself warns us against such:
    “In the latter days some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils…”

    You are bound to draw fire from such as Rick Cruz Torres, but
    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ANDREW!
    We’re behind you all the way.

  103. Brenda Nov 3rd 2010

    Hi Brother Anrew shalom, i say keep the goodwork for Christ. Let the hypocrites be exposed. Jesus says a time is going to come where he will seperate the goats from the sheep, lot of people are hiding behind christuanity and they fake.

    You getting persecuted my brother for doing the right thing, they also did it to Jesus.

    Keep on exposing them.

    Brenda South Africa.

  104. Isa 51:7 Hear Me, those knowing righteousness, the people of My Law in their heart; do not fear the reproach of man, and do not be bowed from their blasphemings.

  105. ronnie Nov 3rd 2010

    Thank you for being obedient to the Lord for warning others about all this stuff. Our family have visited churches that conduct services like this and we knew something wasn’t right. What I believe you are doing is discerning, isn’t that what the book of Proverbs instructs us to do? You are not putting the people down, many of them are unaware of what they are allowing themselves to get caught up in. That’s what being deceived is.We all need to learn how to stand up for truth and to walk in boldness.

  106. Seek first the Kingdom and His righteousness. The Lord Himself is going to deal with all these false ministers that are leading His sheep astray.

  107. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    Did the Lord himself deal with the Catholic church or did he use Martin Luther to restore truth.

  108. Andrew Nov 3rd 2010

    God actually does call us to do this.

    The NT is very clear. That is what leaders and “shepherds” are called to do. Feed the sheep good food and protect them from wolves.

    God doesn’t just send angels down to lead the church out of danger. He expects His leaders to do their job.

  109. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    Exactly Andrew .. it is VERY clear.
    I agree.

  110. HappyTrails Nov 3rd 2010

    His Messenger…..AHhhhhhhh at last ……HIS LIGHT!

    Thank you Thank you…….

  111. HappyTrails Nov 3rd 2010

    watchful says:
    “We will always be ‘wrong’ until we are fully in Possession of Him.”

    Happy Trails comments:

    UNTIL WE ARE FULLY POSSESSED BY HIM.

  112. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    Actually Happy Trails would you maybe consider that it is the REVELATION of who Christ was that enabled the disciples when ‘sent’ preach the true gospel and present the true Christ and follow Him along the narrow way, that was not of THIS world and not of the flesh.

    And…to warn night and day (weeping) that these deceivers driven by deception and flesh would come in and introduce another Jesus, and another gospel.
    with lying signs and wonders following.

  113. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    Not speaking to you personally Happy Trails, but to consider that it is that revelation of Christ, that is true, and from THAT ponjt we are NOT wrong….it is in that revelaton of Christ we can trust….because then we KNOW Him, and now we are enduring the fellowship of His sufferings….and today the FLESH still apposes Him, and therefore us, who declare the same.

  114. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    The KEY…read and KNOW the Word that was flesh and came and dwelt amongst us. That Word will wash and santify our hearts, as it is the pure in heart we shall see God, therefore knowing that which is false, as we walk in the spirit as He is Spirit….and He keeps us from this deceptioon, because we love the truth.
    And His name is ‘The Word of God’

  115. Janet Navarro Nov 3rd 2010

    For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
    Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
    For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
    For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
    Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
    This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
    A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
    Galatians 5:3-9

  116. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    Rick Torres

    Casting down vain imaginations

  117. HappyTrails Nov 3rd 2010

    HEART IDOLATRY LEADS US INTO DECEPTION

    Cut and pasted from Dr.Jones article “Hearing without Idols”

    Inquiring of God With Preconceived Opinions

    One of the most notable Scriptures dealing with the idols of the heart is found in the writings of Ezekiel. God revealed the most about this particular problem to this prophet, setting the stage for this revelation in chapter four, where he was called upon to lie on his left side for 390 days and on his right for another 40 days, eating food cooked with (or over) dung. The dung in Ezekiel represents the traditions of men, which the priests were feeding the people after eating the true bread of the word. The priests processed it by the flesh and then gave the people the remains—dung. (See our 20-page booklet, The Laws of Wormwood and Dung.)

    In Ezekiel’s day there were those who came to him asking for a prophetic word, but they had already made up their minds and were coming with preconceived opinions. They came to the prophet not to truly seek the word from God, but rather to seek a confirmation of their own beliefs and opinions. They had no intention of following the word from Ezekiel, if that word should contradict what they already believed to be true. The story is found in Ezekiel 14:1-7

    1 Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me and sat before me.

    2 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

    3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face; should I be enquired of at all by them?

    4 Therefore speak unto them and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the Lord will answer him according to the multitude of his idols;

    5 That I might take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from Me through their idols.

    6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

    In other words, per verse 4, whatever heart idols we worship and refuse to give up, God will TURN US OVER TO THOSE IDOLS UNTIL WE GET A BELLY FULL!

    Take a look at these videos and ask God what are these people REALLY WORSHIPING/DESIRING IN THEIR HEARTS?

    Jam 5:5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

    James chapters 4 and 5 are WARNINGS.

  118. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    Many people fail to recognize that the Word of God exposes the wolves (Acts 20:29, 30), the dogs (Philippians 3:2), the deceitful workers (2 Corinthians 11:13) and, in the Gospel according to St. Matthew, the religious spirits. The woes themselves give us clear insight into the major characteristics of the religious spirit. The eight woes teach us that religious spirits…

    Shut up the Kingdom of heaven.
    Put on a show.
    Raise false sons.
    Are blind guides and fools.
    Are legalistic hypocrites.
    Are full of extortion and excess.
    Are pretty tombs.
    Possess a murdering spirit.

  119. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    The door to the sheepfold is always open to you Rick Torres, there is still only one way.

    There the sheep find rest for their souls they do not jump around like lunatics with confusion and screaming and uncontrolable shaking and hissing.

    Rest for their souls, there is a huge difference.
    One is of those who follow the true shepherd and the other….well guess???

  120. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    Well said Happy trails

    So true, it really does come down to the decitfulness of the heart. Until the heart is cleansed and santified, then those that love the works of darkness will continue to be deceived and climb up any wall to get in……..BUT there is ONLY one door, and He is the same today, yesterday, and forever, we cannot make Him into our own image, and preach another gospel.
    Personally, I do not think it is wise to entertain such fruitless discussion, to those who do not want the truth, but will argue for their twisting of scripture to enable them to continue in the ways they love, above the ways of righteousness.

  121. HappyTrails Nov 3rd 2010

    I have mentioned this book before and pray that people will give it a read.

    “IDOLS OF THE HEART, learning to long for God alone”

    Author is: ELYSE FITZPATRICK

  122. Mrs Luther Nov 3rd 2010

    Thanks Happy Trails

    I for one will read it, and hopefully those who truly want to ‘Create in ME a clean heart of Lord’, will do likewise.
    and maybe some will come into the light, and turn their backs on the works of darkness, and its lunatic manifetations. leading MANY astray.
    Replacing millstones, with the pearl of great price.

  123. Gary Simpson Nov 3rd 2010

    JUDE 1:1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James,

    To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ:

    JUDE 1:2 Mercy, peace and love be yours in abundance.

    JUDE 1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

    JUDE 1:5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home–these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

    JUDE 1:8 In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals–these are the very things that destroy them.

    JUDE 1:11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.

    JUDE 1:12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm–shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted–twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

    JUDE 1:14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

    JUDE 1:17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

    JUDE 1:20 But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 21 Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

    JUDE 1:22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear–hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

    JUDE 1:24 To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy– 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

    Gary’s comment:

    To those who would wish to introduce unholy spirits into the congregation of God’s people, I would echo the wisdom of God spoken through Michael the Archangel and proclaim:

    “The Lord rebuke you.”

  124. Peter Lawrence Nov 3rd 2010

    Andrew,

    I am not supportive of Rick and don’t even know the guy.
    He did though present you with an Elijah and false prophets showdown and questioned why you editted his full address regarding this topic. That you say it is lengthy does not draw weight as other posts here are often far more lengthy.

    My problem with you and some of your volunteer staff especially Harvestisripe is you do edit and delete posts that do not agree with your stance. This causes dissent and frustration amongst many people and you will only draw followers who totally agree with you in everything. Is this what you wish?

  125. Praise Yahshua !!

    Something i also discern with this false movement that Mr Cruz defends is Gnosticism . An extra-biblical understanding that only the ultra-spiritual/ultra-elect possess. i have seen this in many of those who wish to uphold this “stream” the root of this of course is pride.

    As with all things our cry should be “Sola Scriptura ” Show me in the Holy Scriptures where we see this kind of wickedness and nonsense,

    And yes Mr Cruz, i and those around me do walk in the gifts of the Spirit. We see healing and deliverance on a regular basis. Not as we wish but as HE wills. It happens most often when we go into the highways and byways and proclaim the true good news.

    Repent for the Kingdom is at hand !

    Hisservant rich

    Matthew 4:17

  126. Andrew Nov 3rd 2010

    Peter – you were not around – but we have tried the “Wild West” approach where everyone can yell at each other, say horrible things and get away with it. A lot of people got hurt and a lot of the best most sensitive people all left. The “bullies” thrived.

    We no longer run things that way. As for publishing Rick’s accusatory articles in full – he is doing that himself. I merely quoted the paragraphs that were directly addressing me – because I needed to respond to them. Rick has had his say above, as you can see – accusing me of all kinds of things. We actually have rules against this way of speaking to people, but we have let him have his say on this occasion. I am not going to publish entire articles by him and send them out to thousands of people.

    Sorry.

    Andrew

  127. JCappy Nov 3rd 2010

    I just wanted to say that I have been reading the Revival School emails I have received for over a year now, I have to agree with Andrew Strohm. The enemy is attacking because he knows his time is short and the sad part is, many true Christians are following this false following and many would be Christians are getting involved in it and may never realize the truth because of how the enemy is twisting the truth about the holy spirit and anything that God has to say to true Christianity today! I totally agree with Andrew. I have been a “true” Christian for 30 some years and have never seen more satanic workings as there are today. As a Christian, I know that I have to keep my eyes straight ahead on the Lord and not look to the left or right and that is really where it is at today with Christians who want to do the Lord’s work and that after all is what we are to be doing instead of allowing the enemy to “upset our apple cart” as the old saying goes. Just keep on loving the Lord and doing his work everyone and let the Lord sort out the rest.
    J.C.

  128. Andrew did Jesus Himself tell you to confront this error? Did He appoint you, empower you, ordain you, and send you forth to deal with these demonic spirits?

  129. Praise Yahshua!!

    i won’t answer for Andrew , but i will give you this.

    Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints

    You see Tyrone we are all called to do this.

    Hisservant rich

    Matthew 4:17

  130. watchful Nov 3rd 2010

    Happy Trails, you have a way of taking what is fuzzy or a bit murky for me and bringing it into sharp and clear focus! Lord bless you..

  131. If Jesus stood among us now
    And told us what was true
    Would we bow low with humbled heart
    And ask Him what to do?

    Or would we scream with pride and right
    That we knew more than He
    “Lord, Lord,” the cry, look what I’ve done!”
    Instead of “Lord, save me!”

    You’ll know them by their fruit, He said
    We can tell fake from real
    The enemy acts like a snake
    He lies, and cheats, and steals

    Drunkenness, adultery
    Gold vain imaginings
    Writhing, barking, giving birth
    We cry, while demons sing

    When we don’t love the truth, He said
    He’ll send us what we crave
    Lying signs and wonders
    That will send us to the grave

    He gave His Word so we would know
    His saving grace and love
    We keep our eyes fixed on the Cross
    And wisdom from above

    So keep your eyes on Jesus
    And what He’s plainly taught
    The day will come when He appears
    And all this comes to naught

    The enemy will be exposed
    On that day -if not before
    The shaking has now started
    Warn the flock to shut that door

    -Roxylee

  132. JCappy Nov 3rd 2010

    Just to add one more thing to my original post on here. We have been to churches where we knew the enemy was definitely at work and believe me, we got out of them very quickly. I don’t understand people who profess to know the Lord and then they get wrapped up in this whole thing with feelings and that is something that I was told when I got saved in the 70’s that you can’t go by feelings to know that you are saved–God’s spirit moves in your heart and soul and in your life and your life changes–that is how we know we are one of his children! Why do these people constantly need to have outward appearances of being saved? All we need is what God has put in our hearts and that is more important than anything else here on earth! While people are doing these “physical outward signs of Christianity and talking, talking and talking about it, thousands upon thousands of unsaved people are dying every day and no one cares. I just think their time would be better spent really getting down to brask task (an old saying of my parents) and getting the job of caring for souls on this earth right now who need the Lord done. This arguing back and forth (and I’m not talking to Andrew here) just needs to be put on the back burner and let’s win souls for the Lord (stop arguing and worrying about the signs of the holy spirit and love the lost into Heaven before it is too late for them).
    JC

  133. harvestisripe Nov 3rd 2010

    WE ABSOLUITELY – can not – COMPROMISE THE – Word of God
    Guys if we were to do this and make excauses here for the behavior of these False teachers – false prophets and come to protect them and the evil spirits they bring with them – we will be under the judgement of God – it’s that simple.

    We can not compromise for peace – If you see trouble in the camp – the word says we are to expose it. Of course it does say to go to that person – but you know what – these people know what they are doing and they have been spoken to by many!

    And when it come down to the safety of Christ;s sheep, we can- NOT – compromise nor reason away thier leading the sheep away from Jesus Christ!

    I am truely taken away and horrified when I see this for many have been bewitched by these wolves in sheeps clothing who bring with them evil spirits.

    I KNOW – several yeaes ago I myself was deceived by these people!
    and Demons come with them when you get nvolved with them!

    It is truely by the – MERCY AND GRACE OF GOD – I came out from under their deception and it was an – earth shaking event – THAT THE LORD ALLOWED ME TO WITNESS – in order to bring me out.

    Portal travel – giuded visualization are all straight from the pits of hell and with it comes spirits of darkness.

    The choice I had at that time I truely believe could have ment life or death – PRAISE GOD FOR HIS DELIVERANCE.

    THE PROBLEM WITH SO MANY TODAY IS THEY HAVE

    FORGOTTEN THE – FEAR OF THE LORD – AND HAVE

    EXCHANGED IT FOR FALSE MANIFESTATIONS OF THE FLESH

    SETTING OUR OWN SELVES UP AS AND IDOL.

    Dangerous place to be.

    I am going to spen today fasting and praying for _ NICK – and that the Lord will deliver his out from under this great deception for his salvation depends on it!

    THIS IS NO GAME! THOSE WHO COMPROMISE AND MAKE EXCAUSES FOR THIS KIND OF BEHAVOR – actually become a part of the deception and help to lead others down this very dark path toward destruction.

    Any here who will join me in Prayer?

    NICK – your life does matter to the Lord – I know mine did also – if he can show me and deliver me – he can you also.

    Please in the name of Jesus humble your heart before him now that you not end up losing your soul.

  134. This is a reply to Mr.Cruz. After reading through all the posts, I believe you haven’t answered Andrew’s response about John Crowder’s behavior and how he and many others treat the Holy Spirit in a blasphemous way by comparing it to some sort of drug or out this world experience. I had seen these videos before Andrew posted them and even showed them to my wife, and we couldn’t believe the disrespect he and his friends showed to God. Anyone with discernment, in fact, show these to a non-Christian and I am sure they will think these people are on something.
    There is no self-control, reverence, awe or fear of God in these experiences. Are people crying out to God due to His fearsome and most Holy presence or looking for a quick fix? Look at what kind of fruit is being produced. Will this kind behavior draw people into the Kingdom of God or most importantly will the world see a bunch of spaced out fools? Do you support people like this?
    Of course, Acts 2 has always been used to justify the so-called drunkenness and moving of the Holy Spirit. What fruit came out of the Holy Spirit falling on the disciples then? I believe it was to empower them and to reach those nations that were there and not to just fill them so they could feel all tingly and have ”experiences’. I am looking forward to your response.
    Sincerely, Kevin

  135. harvestisripe Nov 3rd 2010

    PLEASE – PRAY GUYS – PLEASE PRAY –

  136. JCappy Nov 3rd 2010

    I don’t mean to monopolize the conversation on here but the time is late and we do need to being our Lord’s work–getting souls saved!
    I believe we are (from everything that is going on in the world today and in the U.S.) going to be very shortly going thru a very rough time and as Christians we need to be prepared for doing the work or our Lord and Savior for his Kingdom!
    JC

  137. JCappy Nov 3rd 2010

    I agree with Big K. These people who are being deceived need to get the real Lord and Savior (Christ) in their lives and they won’t need all this hoopla to show others that they love them and love our Lord and Savior.
    JC

  138. harvestisripe Nov 3rd 2010

    NICK – DO NOT RESIST THE HOLY SPIRIT !

  139. I just got through reading about how John G Lake received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. He was shaking all over the place as God’s power went through him. Soon thereafter he went to africa, founded over 600 churches and led a million souls to Jesus. But according to some on Facebook, he would be considered a deceived heretic with demonic manifestations. I warn the “heretic hunters” by the Holy Spirit to humble yourselves and seek His Face, before you get into a great deal of trouble with Him. Stop judging by what you see, hear, and think, but by what His Spirit reveals.

  140. Janet Navarro Nov 3rd 2010

    To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
    “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
    I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 18:9-14

  141. harvestisripe Nov 3rd 2010

    Can yopu please give this to prayer here for awhile?

  142. Ephesians 6:12

    “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

    One needs to be prepared, trained, and anointed to wrestle against these demonic powers and rulers of darkness who are inspiring these deceived ministers in these last days. Can a demonic spirit be cast out through message boards and video’s? It’s easy to write some words on a post or do a video, it’s a whole nother thing to wrestle with these demons in person!

  143. It is sad that such confusion and such spiritual poverty still exists in our midst after so many centuries of exposure to the Word of God and the presence of the Holy Spirit.

    For one I think people like Todd Bentley should never have been so promoted – but the fact that he was heavily promted by certain people called the integrity and discernment of ALL those promoters into serious question.

    On the other hand, unless we are going to be practical cessationists, I think it is fair to ask where do we find today a model of biblical spirit led evangelism and discipleship which shows and demonstrates the nature and capacity to bless others as seen in the ministry of Jesus?

    It is easy to sit behind a computer screen and say “This is bad, this is error”. It might be important to do that, and to raise the alarm, but it is also important to SHOW people how things ARE meant to be done.

    People like Bill Johnson do seem to be demonstrating power evangelism – with a zeal for ministering Christ’s love and power to unsaved people out there. Would the participants of this forum be so bold to say that Bill and the church at Redding is doing these things by the inspiration and power of the devil?

    If not, then what is the source of these signs and wonders? And why would the Holy Spirit get involved with people that Andrew can fault?

    So how do others see these things?

  144. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    I WANT TO THANK ALL WHO TOOK TIME TO PRAY IT WAS A

    MOMNENT GOD ALLOWED SET ASIDE THAT THE BLIND MIGHT
    SEE. .

  145. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    Andrew please do not let these whom think it was more important to vent their disagreements – – PLEASE DO REMOVE THEIR POSTS.

    IN FACT IT MAY BE IT IS TIME TO CLOSE THIS DOWN – you of course make that call.

    God Bless You for standing for Truth.

  146. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    Tyrone – Its called Prayer in the Spirit and fasting my brother. I have seen people saved nd delivered by this.

  147. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    THAT IS TO SAY IF THEY HAVE NOT HARDENESD THEIR HEARTS.

  148. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    The truth is, every time the Lord has pulled your covers here, in a gentle and loving attempt to draw you out of deception, you have immediately come under conviction and deleted the comments.

    RICK – have ypu forgotten the DECEPTION HERE IS THE VIDEOS – that speak for themselves? and the people involved in these videos and the evil spirits that beset them – which you seem to embrace

  149. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD WE EVEN WANT TO GIVE YOU

    PLACE TO CONTINUE TO DECEIVE THE SHEEP AND TO

    PURSUADE THEM WHAT YOU EMBRACE IS THE TRUTH WHEN

    IN FACT IT IS A LIE STRAIGHT FROM THE PITS OF HELL !

  150. harvest-

    How can one tell they are dealing with a wolf in sheep’s clothing?

    Their favorite way to describe God’s people is “precious sheep” ; a term which they use with great relish. Listen carefully and one may hear the occasional hasty retrieval of slobber from a wildly salivating and sharptoothed mouth ;)

  151. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    PETER – PLEASE KNOW – I am a follower of Jesus Christ – not man – and yes using this to vent anger and to accuse falsely and to allow Christ’s precious sheep to being fed more deception – perhaps it is time to close this down and remove the links.

    Andrew will make that call – I do not tell him what to do – God Forbid – another false accuzation. he is lead by the Holy Spirit.. and I trust he will do as led to do.

  152. No worries, Pete:) It’s easy to see what’s happening here.

  153. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    Peter there you go again I do add many times to my posts as the Holy Spirit led to perhaps add something If I felt something t should have been said and was left out.

    Fakse accuzations against ones sister or brother is a bad place to be.

    Peter if I hurt you I am sorry but you brought strife to the forum – the handful of remarks I did remove you should be glad for.

    You knew the rules from the beginning and you kept abusing them to the max just like you are doing right now and you are making false accuzations here, sad part I think you believe what you are saying.

    I will not keep this going it is a shame to use Andrews Thread here for such as this.

    IIf you had wanted to discuss this further you had ample time to have asked me to e-mail you.

    Please let this bitterness go – I have no bitterness towards you.

  154. Roger Souden Nov 4th 2010

    Hi Rick – I have had a look at your site, and watched/listened to your video clip. I hear you say that you follow Jesus – I need to know which Jesus..?

    Yes, I am testing you, as scripture tells me to in 1 John:

    1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
    1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    Now, if you truly are filled with the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, if you truly believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God who came in the flesh, was crucified on the cross and is resurrected from the dead, and will return again in all power and glory as King and Lord of His creation, if you are truly a born again, spirit filled brother of Christ Jesus our Lord, our risen Saviour.. ..please explain to me exactly what spiritual fruit as laid out in Gal 5, that these people are demonstrating in the video clips that Andrew has posted on this site..?
    Gal 5:22-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    All I see with my eyes, all that I discern through the Holy Spirit, are things of the flesh, or worse, spirits that are not from our Lord Jesus Christ.

    I ask this in the Love of Jesus Christ our Risen Saviour and Lord, which Jesus are you following Rick..?

    In Him,
    Roger

  155. Andrew Nov 4th 2010

    Rick – I would like you to come to New Zealand and meet. It needs to be in Auckland in the 2nd half of December ideally. Anytime in those 2 weeks would be great. If you cannot make that, then we can arrange a different date. I will have my friend Grant there who is a specialist in Deliverance – who can help you – because you said you wanted a “panel” of spiritual people present. I will also have perhaps one other person as an observer – but nothing “heavy”. We can meet and pray and talk. Please send me an email at the following email address and I will send you my Phone number.
    Here it is – [email protected]

    God bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  156. Andrew Nov 4th 2010

    Rick – please email me.
    I am wanting to send you my Phone number.

    -Andrew

  157. The person who said John G. Lake was empowered by the Holy Spirit missed one important point of WHY John G. lakes was filled with the Spirit in a very powerful way. He spent months repenting of sin! He was a man who was troubled with all the sin in his heart and mind and so he began allowing the Holy Spirit to expose all his sins. This went on for 3-4 months of deep repenting and forsaking sin. This is what is completly missing from this “renewal” movement. they don’t and won’t deal with sin they just ignore i-but so do most other churches.

    The first and second great awakening had many physical manifestations but they were caused by the people writhing under great conviction of their own sin. The preachers always preached against sin and presented Christ as the only one who could deliver them from it.

    Today these “renewal” preacher don’t preach against sin and require repentance, they just preach have fun in the holy spirit.
    This is an outrage.

    Perhaps we should turn the conversation to what is NOT being preached at these meeting as a indication of there validity according to scripture. When the truth is preached exposing sin and people fall down under the weight of their offence to a Holy God and cry out for His mercy then we will see a true move of God. But of course I know this type of preaching will never be done in these “renewal” movement because they catigorically reject this preaching as “old” and “evil” and they only want joy and laughter. But true inward joy comes form being clean of your sins before a Holy loving God.

    We must stop arguing about what physical manifestaions are correct and is it really the Lord of not. This is a mere sleight of hand to keep us disrtacted from what the real isuue is-Bad preaching that leaves man bound in their sins all the while calling it holiness.

    I don’t doubt that people are healed and demons cast out in some of these meetings but it is for the purpose that these people can then hear a message to repent of all their sins and completly lay thier self ruled lives down the the KING of KINGS and the LORD of LORDS! they must enter in through the strait gate of true complete repentance or they enter into a false gate that leads to deception.

    Jeri Woods
    253-988-0012

  158. HappyTrails Nov 4th 2010

    watchful…..It’s not me….It’s God shedding His Light on the hearts of those who are seeking ONLY His Truth.

    His Truth DISPELS the darkness, it brings His Light with it.

  159. HappyTrails Nov 4th 2010

    PREACH IT JERI WOODS!!

  160. gramma Nov 4th 2010

    Andrew – The Lord is in this work here to expose those filthy seducing spirits that would woo and trick as many, and as quickly as they can (especially our young brethren who are so vulnerable).

    I’ve heard two things in these posts that clearly mark the positions (not in Christ) of those whose heels are dug firmly into this deception. Those two things are – Hardened Hearts, and Seared Consciences. God have mercy on us all and keep us from such a selfish hellish state.

    I agree with Lynn that to give further scope to these deceptive voices may not be wise, and to pray, pray, pray for those voices, with a heart toward knowing that but for the grace of God there go I.

    Blessings,
    Gramma

  161. Andrew-

    Thank you. I will email you shortly.

    Blessings!

    Rick Cruz Torres

  162. Jeri,

    You write that this renewal movement does not preach repentance. I know what you are referring to and I agree that repentance from sin ought to be preached, and hasn’t been preached much by a lot of these people.

    However, it was preached at Brownsville by Steve Hill. But Andrew doesn’t like what happened at Brownsville. I wonder, does the Holy Spirit likes any places and people that Andrew does not like? Has the Holy Spirit been working supernaturally at any of these places, or has it only been kundalini demons? I wonder if anyone has the courage to answer this question.

  163. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    Michale did you watch the Third video there is film of people at Brownsville on it I would ask that you then watch video 1 and then video 2 and then compare what you see on all videos and then tell me if this was Revival?

    I also know Pastors that have come back from Brownsville with their so called annointing – that the fruit coming from them is more than questionable and the manifestations within the four wall of thier church. a take off of Toronto.
    Sincerely, Lynn

  164. Andrew Nov 4th 2010

    Michael – I always say about Brownsville that I liked the “Repentance preaching” side of things there. But we also know that they deliberately and knowingly brought the “Toronto” anointing in there too. So it was a real mixture.

    John Arnott was invited to preach there. And the Brownsville guys stood on stage and endorsed Bentley and the Lakeland revival.

    God bless you!

    Andrew

  165. watchful Nov 4th 2010

    Amen to your post, Jeri Woods:

    “Today these “renewal” preacher don’t preach against sin and require repentance, they just preach have fun in the holy spirit.”

    Yes, that’s why they don’t change or grow and I observed this when I went back to visit at Toronto after a few years of not attending there.

    “….but it is for the purpose that these people can then hear a message to repent of all their sins and completly lay thier self ruled lives down the the KING of KINGS and the LORD of LORDS! they must enter in through the strait gate of true complete repentance or they enter into a false gate that leads to deception.”

    I find these to be powerful words! Even if someone happens to remember to preach repentance, I think the problem has been that it is usually preached coming up short of what real repentance means, and often the one preaching hasn’t done it himself yet in the depth you are talking about, so their words are not very effective. In John G. Lake’s case as you said, he had truly repented, so his words had power. It truly is a deception to think one is in right standing with God and doesn’t have to really do anything more personally, not realizing “self” is still a usurper sitting on Jesus’ throne. And that would go for all of us on both sides of the debate on this thread, in churchers, out of churchers or what have you. This is why we can’t afford to stand around looking back at what we came out of, like Lot’s wife, we must keep going forward in the Lord – and that means personally, nothing to do with works – to get to that place of full repentance where Jesus is truly enthroned in our temples and self has been dealt with!

  166. Michael,

    Here we get to the meat of the issue that the “church” hasn’t addressed in a very long time. What does it mean to be born again?

    I chose not to dwell on the issue of physical manifestations and side with Johathon Edwards who believed physical manifestations will never verify a mans encounter with God. he says a life lived holy verify this. I sayand the New Testament says only a separation from sin will verify to us and the world if one has the living Christ indwelling them. Christ came for this very purpose to set us free from sin, and sin not having dominion over us is a by-product of having the living Christ invade a life-being born again.

    One can have every emotional experience with God but if they are not separated from thier sins they have not been born again and His life is not resideing in them.

    In Brownsville they preached repentance to the crowd of people who they assumed were “christians” and told them to repent of sin-so some repented of adultery or homosexuallity or addiction to pornography or whatever. but in the first and second great awakenings the Pastors would of known that anyone involved with these egregous sin were never “born again” in the first place but were merely professing to be Christians. They weren’t backslidden and went back into sin they were never born again in the first place.

    But in our modern “Christianity” any one who claims to be born again can be bound in any of theses sins and this is normal operating proceedures. Before 1900, it was common knowledge that anyone involved in such sins was not born again. but not so with us-we don’t know how to get people to enter thru the strait gate of true repentance and make contract with the living Christ on a personal basis that will set them free from sin. matter of fact the “spirit” filled churches reject as a whole any talk of actual holines, righteousness or freedom form sin. and thats why there is so much sin in the church- not very many are born again.

    Jeri
    253-988-0012

  167. Mrs Luther Nov 4th 2010

    You know with all the many, many people showing Rick Torres the deception he is in, with every scripture and all evidence, he still continues to walk in his error.
    This is very telling. Now is the time to shake the dust off your shoes,
    He has had every chance to repent, now, as always he will have to give an account for the decpetiion.

    Our hands are clean. We did all that Jesus and the disciples did.

    The truth has been rejected.

  168. The truth? Here it is:

    The tyranny of politically motivated peacekeepers will not be ignored forever. Our Eternal King Who Wraps Himself in Light, has never been, nor will He ever be, One who compromises Truth for the sake of man’s comfort. While the human heart is desperately grasping at a spurious unity, an anemic and counterfeit peace, the God of Glory is determinedly uprooting every system of this fallen world that conspires to keep us from Himself. Lasting peace, of the kind that far surpasses the extreme reaches of human understanding and self satisfied reasoning, is never built upon a lie. The invitation to compromise with liars and their lies in the name of unity and brotherly love, is an invitation smeared with the blood of the martyrs…

    The lies are backed by the thick necked, rough knuckled spirit of intimidation…the slick flattery of smooth faced murderers…the upturned hands of defenseless do gooders. Always the push is present; give a little to get a little.

    “Don’t hurt their feelings or you’ll lose any chance of winning them to Jesus.”

    “Look, brother, we’re all of the same family. Just because he’s teaching something that’s not in the bible, doesn’t mean we can’t all get along.”

    “After all, we are in different places in our faith.”

    “Some are more mature than others, some have greater understanding of certain truths than others do.”

    “We must not judge one another’s doctrinal beliefs…”

    There exists a value in this present world, of accepting all spiritual and philosophical beliefs as equal in veracity. Take your philosophical beliefs and feast with your friends in any way you choose! Leave the diversity of salvation perspectives and doctrinal interpretations where they belong. In Hell. There is only one Way to Paradise. One Name by which man may be saved from the eternal torment of separation from his Creator. If someone comes to you and begins to teach you that there is in fact no need for a life lived circumspectly before God, that there is no Hell and therefore no need for a Savior, and this individual claims to be a servant and friend of the Lord Jesus Christ…I can tell you with unwavering certainty that this jesus of whom they speak is not the Jesus who died at Calvary and was raised again on the third day. Frightening isn’t it? There are many “christ’s” loose in the world. With signs and wonders soon to follow. The false prophets of these other christs are experts in the quoting and recitation of biblical chapter and verse, all the while sowing a silent mutiny.

    The devil himself is a quite skilled swordsman…I challenge you to find a man or woman on the planet who knows the Bible as well as the father of liars. This fallen creature is the master of manipulation, an expert at transforming himself, at least for a fleeting moment, into an angel of light. Many quote this verse and still somehow expect to be warned of encroaching deception by the waving of a bright red flag, or the clamoring bell of a five alarm fire. God has made a deposit against such a time as this. Though the planet be rife with wickedness and deception’s cunning threads run rampant through the fabric of our world, the Blood bought believer in Jesus Christ has no cause to fear. The Spirit of Truth dwells among men. Oh wonderful, Father of Creation…You live in us! The Wisdom of God now lives in whosoever will believe!

    The more time one spends with another person, the better acquainted the two shall be. Should a stranger call you on the phone, begin to address you in familiar terms and quickly set about giving you advice, you would no doubt say something like,”oh, I’m sorry, you’ve dialed the wrong number.” And promptly hang up. It’s not very likely that you would take the stranger’s advice, or even listen to much of what they had to say at all. They are not familiar to you, so their credibility is non-existent. What if this strange person should begin to tell you that the God you know and love is not God at all but some man made fraud that has never helped you, spoken to you, healed you etc…but only tricked you to believe these things? Would you accept their counsel and exchange your God for theirs? What if this messenger knew so much more about the bible than you that they just had to be the real deal? You might still be saying “no, I would not listen, I know who my Jesus really is.”

    And yet I say, “Really?”

    Unless we know Him better than we know anybody else, we are vulnerable to deception. The only safe place in this day and in the days to come, is in moment by moment, breath by breath intimacy with Jesus. The Lordship of Christ must serve as the unshakable foundation of our relationship with God. Intimacy means safety and not only safety but everything that He intended it to be when He created us for Himself. You and I were made to dwell in the presence of His glory. Our first and highest calling is to be those who live and breath in the unbroken reality of His glory. The human heart is intricately formed before the incandescent heat of His gaze; joyfully created with Wisdom’s counsel…to be hidden in Him. The voice of another lover, enticing as it might be…holds no attraction for the one whose heart is hidden in Him. The lovesick worshiper of Jesus is the most secure, unflinching, unshakable voice of Truth on the planet. There is no trick, no illusion, no combination of words or manifestation of false signs and wonders that will deter the ones who truly know their God. If there remains any lingering doubt about whether or not you know Him well enough, or by contrast, you are so certain you know Him that most of this message has seemed to be written for someone besides yourself, I have one last question.

    What do the following verses mean to you?

    “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has become a child of God. And everyone who loves the Father loves his children, too. We know we love God’s children if we love God and obey his commandments. Loving God means keeping his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome. For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith. And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.” (I John 5:1-5)~NLT~

    “We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them. We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us understanding so that we can know the true God. And now we live in fellowship with the true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the only true God, and he is eternal life. Dear children, keep away from anything that might take God’s place in your hearts.”
    ( I John 5:18-21)~NLT~

    Be Blessed!

  169. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    Nick we can not compromise truth for a lie to obtain peace – this is not true love it is no love at all – but more deception.

    You say good things in you post – some I can even agree with – but – that does not take away the fact that you try to seduce Christ’s sheep with the people and their evil spirits you protect and say are from God.

    For this I can not receive from you.

  170. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    You say
    We must not judge one another’s doctrinal beliefs…”

    This is not what the word of God says .

    Saints the word of God says we are to test everything but the word of God.

    This is what these guys tell the saints – to be open minded or you will miss what God is doing – don’t judge!

    Saints – this is the klast days – do not be deceived.

  171. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    that should say – we are to test everything – BY – the Word of God.

  172. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    Nick I should have made it clearer you are using this as an example – We must not judge one another’s doctrinal beliefs…”

    The point I am trying to get across is this is what some of these guys say that you embrace.

  173. harvest-
    My name is Rick..lol. NONE OF THE PEOPLE I HAVE NAMED SAY WE ARE NOT TO JUDGE ANOTHER’S DOCTRINAL BELIEFS.

    -*RICK*

  174. Harvest-

    You said:

    “Nick we can not compromise truth for a lie to obtain peace – this is not true love it is no love at all – but more deception.”

    You need to read my message again. This comment from you shows that you have no idea what you are even talking about. Sorry, not trying to be mean…just pointing out that the whole heartbeat of my message went right over your head.

    -Rick

  175. Mrs Luther Nov 4th 2010

    Jesus was known (relationally) to all he grew up with and yet MANY rejected His Words also, and chose to follow another.

    Those whom he walked amonsgst as a stranger, heard His words, and knew who He was and followed Him, (whose words were truth).on the narrow path.

    So (relationally) has nothing much to do with it, unless to see that their liifestyle aligns with their words.
    However if you are of God, you KNOW the difference and can discern a person words, if they be truth or not.

    Which is exactly what many are doing here.

  176. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    They say we are not to judge God;s annoited if we speak up against one of them .

    NO Nick – you need to re-read what I posted – I corrected myself to make it more understandable if you will go back you will see this and the message did not go over my head – and – they all preach some truth otherwise so many would not follow them.

    Go back and read my post further up – – I was involved with most of these guys several years ago attending their conferances even a pray host in one where Todd bently was the speaker – and some from I-Hop were there helping with the conferance -and I know what they do and say and the guided visualization and portal travel they teach and encourage and try to take people there – I know exactly what I am speking about and I know the evil spirits involved in this group of people.

    I even have dvds of Todd bently teaching Guided Visulation to take on to heaven.

    You are deceived by these guys – DO YOU BELIEVE IN GUIDED VISULATION AND PORTAL TRAVEL TO HEAVEN AND BACK IN THIS BODY WE HAVE NOW?
    Do you believe in Bob Jones Angel Imma?
    Do you agree with them? what they teach?

    Did you agree with Lakeland and believe it was a true Revival – remember Todd Bently and Bob Jones – Andrew mentioned in his Post you came back and rejected.

  177. Mrs. Luther-

    That was a load of caca and you know it;)

    -Rick

  178. Roger Souden Nov 4th 2010

    Hi again Rick – you say that the heartbeat of your message went over Harvestisripe’s head..?

    It seems that my question went over your head, I really need a straight answer please Rick:
    =================
    Hi Rick – I have had a look at your site, and watched/listened to your video clip. I hear you say that you follow Jesus – I need to know which Jesus..?

    Yes, I am testing you, as scripture tells me to in 1 John:

    1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
    1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    Now, if you truly are filled with the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, if you truly believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God who came in the flesh, was crucified on the cross and is resurrected from the dead, and will return again in all power and glory as King and Lord of His creation, if you are truly a born again, spirit filled brother of Christ Jesus our Lord, our risen Saviour.. ..please explain to me exactly what spiritual fruit as laid out in Gal 5, that these people are demonstrating in the video clips that Andrew has posted on this site..?
    Gal 5:22-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    All I see with my eyes, all that I discern through the Holy Spirit, are things of the flesh, or worse, spirits that are not from our Lord Jesus Christ.

    I ask this in the Love of Jesus Christ our Risen Saviour and Lord, which Jesus are you following Rick..?

    In Him,
    Roger

  179. Harvest-
    What in the world are you talking about? Just respond intelligently to my message about intimacy with Jesus or don’t expect another response from me.
    -Rick

  180. Preach the gospel! What’s going back and forth with Rick accomplishing? Nothing!

  181. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    Is this you way of getting out of answering my questions – I think you owe it to the saints here if you are going to come here and teach – what your stance is in what I asked you here.

    The real Jesus for would never seduce his sheep into following after these men whom you protect.

    Andrew is absolutely right in exposing .

  182. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    You are right Tyrone but he still needs to answer these questions .

  183. Roger Souden Nov 4th 2010

    Tyrone – there is a time and a place to ask these questions, and you are right Harvestisripe – he needs to answer.

  184. Roger Souden Nov 4th 2010

    I do not think Rick is NOT answering your questions Harvestisripe.

    I do not see that he CAN answer 1 John 4:2, and that is sad – because the crucified and risen Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, that we worship still loves Rick as a person.

  185. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    Yes Roger I have said the same thing . This is very persomal to me because I have been there done that – but it is time for me to leave here.
    God bless, Lynn

  186. Mrs Luther Nov 4th 2010

    Actually NO Mr Tores I do not know it.
    BUT I do have your number.

  187. Mrs Luther Nov 4th 2010

    And again I say, as we can all see what Mr Torres is doing.

    We should NOT engage hm anymore
    He has had ALL scripture and testimoney to persuade him

    Serously folks, I would just ignore him…it is FOOLISHNESS TO ENGAGE HIM ANYMORE,

  188. Mrs Luther Nov 4th 2010

    Can you really see Jesus, and the disciples entertaiing demons on an ongoing basis.

    They cast they out,
    Forbade them to speak
    And dealt with them accordingly

    I suggest we do the same.

    This man is determined to continue in his ways.
    He has had every opportunity, to repent and come into the light.
    We have seen again and again evidence of it in both word and visually.

    Need we be more persuaded than to depart from him.

  189. Mrs Luther Nov 4th 2010

    He claims to be a brother,
    but as we can all see, we have different fathers

  190. Mrs Luther Nov 4th 2010

    One correction

    I believe I was wrong is saying Jesus/disciples forbade (demons) to speak.

    But they did defnitely did NOT entertain them…

    With just one word Jesus said to Peter. Get behind me satan, no hours and hours, and pages and pages of conversation….in the authority He had because of the truth He walked in, He dealt with it….end of story.

  191. Elsje Nov 4th 2010

    Dear Andrew, I recognize the same spirit in Rick Cruz Torres & a few of his friends placing posts on this wall in a pastor & his friends in South Africa who were confronted by my one friend after the pastor started behaving very strangely & doing and saying this that at times he denied saying or even at times denied having done. This pastor operated in the same spirit as shown in these kundalini (false holy spirit) dvd’s. He would chase people out of his church who doesnt fall under the power of the “holy spirit” – because according to him they were stubborn and did not want to submit to the “power” of the “holy spirit. One day the neighbors dog walked into his ten-church and he got up and in anger threw his bible at him, to get him out of church. He counselled my friend and tried to convince her to get into his bed with him. He gave my other friend who was in a sinful relationshionship, counselling “how-to-have-better-sex” – never once told her to get out of her sin or rather marry the guy she was having this relationship with. He had & still has a “healing & prophetic” ministry and is very prominent in an American Bible School for Africans (Teamwork Bible College) – I still think the Bible School doesnt know about his doings as he has a “very religious side, with miracles, wonders & prophecies” and also has a dark side “sexual uncleanness”, he has visited John Arnot’s church and had people from his church visit his church in South Africa. This “pastor” during counselling sessions with my friend – accused his wife of being a lesbian and told my friend his wife was lesbian. He was controlling & loved outward manifestations of shakings, crying & falling down. If people would not react this way, he convinced his church “to pray for them to lay down their rebellion” so that they would submit to this “anointing.” My friend confronted him and his church board. They all, just like Rick Cruz Torres used scripture to defend their case and that of the pastor – in the end my friend came out “battred” and “bruised” and worse of than ever. That is why I want to warn you Andrew. Todd Bentley had an affair with his employee and ended up marrying her, and as far as I can remember Rick Joyner & others put him right back on the stage. This spirit that Rick Cruz and his friends are working through is soooo “religious” and “powerful” – it uses the Scriptures to twist the truth (its not difficult to understand this – as even Satan – who is now working in the Anti-Christ (remember in the last days there is going to be a FALSE PROPHET, ANTI-CHRIST & BEAST) The operators working in the spirit of THE FALSE PROPHET WILL USE SCRIPTURE & TWIST IT TO SUIT & SUPPORT THEIR ACTIONS. Look at the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, New-Agers – all use TWISTED Scripture to support their cause. Satan even used “SCRIPTURE” to try and convince Jesus whilst in the desert to SIN) – The kundalini spirit is a religious spirit. It is the age-old serpent that twisted the truth in the Garden of Eden when he convinced EVE to sin. Andrew you will not get anywhere with Rick Cruz, as the SNAKE (kundalini) has twisted itself around Rick & his friends and he (this slimy religious spirit) has taken control and has given them “power, fame & wonders – and THEY LOVE it” Remember the spirit of deception IS SO STRONG that Scripture warned that EVEN the Elect would be lead astray for a short while, until they see the truth. SO GOOD ADVICE IS, DONT ENGAGE IN FURTHER DISCUSSIONS WITH THIS GUY – YOURE NOT GOING TO GET ANYWHERE!! NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, HE WE RETURN WITH ARROGANCE AND M-O-R-E TWISTED SCRIPTURE to try and convince you that you are wrong and he is right. Discussions with him will cause confusion in the hearts of the ones who have “come out of Babylon.” So as another person pointed out – dont entertain further discussions with the man. Rather pray for him, that the truth will also be revealed to him, as it has been revealed to us.

    We thank the Father for you Andrew and are praying for you. PLEASE FOCUS ON THE ONES THAT ARE WITH YOU – NOT THE ONES THAT ARE AGAINST YOU!!!

  192. @harvestisripe
    I watched all three videos. I also attended Brownsville a few times personally. I don’t subscribe to the doctrine that “shaking” = “demons”. Do you? Shaking might be due to demons, and some of the things going on don’t look right to me. But in seeking to come up with a clear cut answer to all the issues raised here, a litmus test for spiritual discernment, if you will, one can create as many problems as one solves.

    I repeat my question which I feel has not been answered on this thread as yet.

    I wonder, does the Holy Spirit likes any places and people that Andrew does not like? Has the Holy Spirit been working supernaturally at any of these places, or has it only been kundalini demons? I wonder if anyone has the courage to answer this question.

  193. @Andrew:
    Yes, I was shocked when I saw Steve Hill and John Kilpatrick got on the stage at Lakeland. I believe they have since publicly repented of that. I give them credit for that.

    What I am wishing to explore is the issue of “mixture” and to what extent the Holy Spirit is working in places and ministries which you criticize.

    I have yet to find a perfect person in all my years as a Christian. But I have found some really godly and wonderful people along the way. Notwithstanding the comments of Jeri that people who sin are not actually born again, I find that we all fall short of the GLORY of GOD in one way or another at various times.

    You do state that you want to see God’s miraculous but let me ask: when was the last time you saw it through your own ministry? Have there been I have no idea of the answer to this – but please – when is the last time you saw deaf ears open, or blind eyes open, or such things?

    These things are happening with SOME of the ministries you criticize – e.g. Heidi Baker, Bill Johnson. Would you say the devil is doing these things or is it God?

    If it is God, should we not seek to learn what we can from these ministries?

    Is it possible that UNBELIEF concerning the miraculous promises of God e.g. Mark 16:17,18; John 14:12 is just as much a sin as say cheating in business?

    You are encouraging everyone to close off their hearts to certain ministries whose faith seems to exceed your own in certain areas. Wouldn’t it be better to adopt a slightly different approach?

    At the same time, I commend you for courageously standing up against things which are certainly wrong.

    I think there are a lot of important questions to be resolved now, and clearly many of God’s people do not know where to turn for answers and solid leadership. Some become calvinists and cessationists after being turned off by the stupidities and excesses and deceptions which have crept into the charismatic world.

    I think there is a better way to navigate this.

  194. Mrs Luther Nov 4th 2010

    Many did all sorts of signs and wonders in Jesus name. and they were called lying signs and wonders.
    And he told then to depart from Him, for He never knew them.
    It is not a case faith but the ones the Lord KNOWS who are His, and hear His voice, and walk the narrow path, ans walk in holiness and santification.
    And we can be perfect which is ‘spiritually mature’, (gk) as He requests of us.

  195. Mrs Luther Nov 4th 2010

    Correction

    He WILL tell them to depart from Him, as He never KNEW them…to KNOW them is equivalent to ‘know intimately’ and that is as a wife knows a husband in intimacy, which is ‘holiness’ and purity of heart.

    Manifestations whether demonic or of the flesh are not an outward manifestation of holy intimacy, but rather the harot church, driven by the arm of flesh.

  196. Andrew Nov 4th 2010

    Sadly I believe many of these ministries cannot be trusted – including the source of their “miracles”. Once you operate under Kundalini I do not want you laying hands on people at all.

    Miracles in the Last Days need more discernment.
    Sadly that is clearly the way it is.

    But by no means are we “cessationists”. And we do encourage and move in the “gifts”.

    -Andrew

  197. watchful Nov 4th 2010

    The “religious spirit” defense has been used ever since the beginning of Toronto when I was there – any kind of criticism of this movement is immediately put in the category of “religious spirit” and so their minds are simply closed to Godly counsel or reasoning, similar to cult members. They simply will not engage in any self-examination of their current understanding, they are camped and entrenched in it and not interested in pulling up stakes to follow the Cloud. Beyond a certain point, it’s just unseemly and unproductive to keep arguing with them.

  198. While undoubtedly there are those who operate in miraculous powers who will be ultimately lost, I don’t have much confidence in those who claim to be so very close to Jesus and to be very much without sin, who have little personal experience of anything that resembles what we see Jesus doing in the gospels from start to finish.

    All the apostles healed the sick and cast out demons, and they taught others to do all they learned from Jesus, until heresy hunting became the main game of the church, and the main concern became to determine who was right and who was wrong, no longer to preach the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth and demonstrate the Kingdom of God.

  199. watchful Nov 4th 2010

    I agree with your comment in principle Michael, and Jeri Woods’ post tells us why. But the answer is not to run after miracles, or run after ministries, that is idolatry, the answer is to take up our cross and follow Jesus. He didn’t say you shall know them by their miracles, He said you shall know them by their fruits (Christlike character). This movement has been plagued by bad fruits – sin, unchristlike character, which the Lord has been deliberately exposing to try and wake us up that we’re on the wrong path. That’s not condmenation, that’s just a fact.

    2 Thes. 2 tells us about the “secret power of lawlessness”, and that there are counterfeit miracles, so we know we can’t go by miracles:

    2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,

    2Th 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

    2Th 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

    2Th 2:12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    Wickedness is lawlessness, and lawlessness is anything done out of man’s will and not at the Holy Spirit’s leading, even if it’s “good” and that includes healings, miracles and prophecies. Remember Adam and Eve’s fall was that they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of GOOD and Evil. I have to simply conclude that if the Holy Spirit is not leading me the way He led Jesus and the Apostles, then it’s because I’m not born again yet, only conceived. That’s not condemnation either, just a fact.

    So if the Bible tells us there are counterfeits and lawlessness in His temple, the church, then we should be able to look around and identify where they are.

  200. When I became a Christian back in the mid-1990s in Toronto, I attended a local Vineyard Church which was a church-plant from the Toronto Airport Church. In the beginning, I had seen many people get “filled with the spirit” and longed for that as I didn’t experience such a thing. I felt the Lord tell me and through other people that I shouldn’t look to manifestations, but to focus and seek Him. Eventually after taking my eyes off of outwardly things, the Lord filled me with an inexpressible joy and peace through His Spirit. Under the power of the Spirit, I did shake, tremble, fall; however, not pushed or wanting to. I knew I was genuinely saved and received the baptism of the spirit with a gift of tongues following. I was so hungry for God and thirsted for His presence continually.
    Some time later, some friends told me about the Toronto Airport Church and the things going on there. I figured I would have a try and see what the big fuss was. Around that time the Airport Church had broken off from the Vineyard movement due to disagreements over different beliefs, and specifically spiritual oddities such as people barking, animal noises, etc. I am not sure if they had ever reconciled, but it seemed like it was a big enough issue for the Vineyard movement to address it.
    Looking back I am not sure if the Vineyard churches discerned something strange going on or not.
    To continue, I went to various meetings and genuinely felt God’s presence. I would see things there that didn’t seem right in my spirit such as a lack of self-control, animal sounds, screaming, excessive drunkenness, people shooting other people with “Holy Spirit guns”, fire tunnels, so on. I have experienced feeling “drunk in the spirit”, but with an absolute peace, love and joy. A lot of people I had seen looked like they had been truly drunk or high on something and would act uncontrollably.
    After some time, I stopped going to the Airport Church as I felt God not leading me to go there anymore. It felt kind of empty like something changed. I think that at first, I can genuinely see God moving, but the feeling there started to change. It was almost like God had lifted His presence out, but we didn’t realize what was happening. It seemed that after some time, the people there had too much of a focus on signs & wonders, experiences and prophecies, etc. that they lost focus on having a true relationship with God without expecting Him to always do things for them. God was looked upon as a “Holy Ghost bartender” who was there for the sole purpose of giving into our demands of wanting to feel drunk/high in the spirit. Of course, I don’t think all the people there acted like this and I believe many were truly born-again Christians.
    The prophetic ministry was probably the most popular ministry that people sought. Majority of the people would flock to prophetic meetings especially if the “prophet” is popular and would desire an impartation or word from him/her. I went to one meeting like this where it seemed like many were scrambling to get near the “prophet”. God opened my eyes to see how people get impatient or desperate and get tricked into looking at the flesh. Most Christians don’t want to spend the time and effort to seek a true relationship with Him because it’s hard work and God’s holy presence reveals our hidden sins which we don’t want to deal with.
    I call the Christianity of today “fast food Christianity”. We demand a quick fix and move on. When we “feel” like we are craving more or working on low steam, then the cycle continues. I don’t think God is one who gives into our “feel-good” scams. Just who would give into our desires to please our carnal nature upon demand? The answer is obviously easy to guess.
    In conclusion, from my experiences of going to the Vineyard Churches and Toronto Airport Church, I truly believed that God was there in the beginning as I had experienced genuine prohetic words and manifestations. However, as time went on, many Vineyard churches struggled to survive and even some had closed. Even some pastors and leaders of some these churches gave up and went their own way. In hindsight, I think that what started as a good thing – the devil gradually sneaked in and misguided people from looking to God to experiences, signs and wonders. I think this is how many other revivals had stopped in the past. Beware!
    I hoped this testimony will help some people. -Kevin-

  201. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    THANK YOU KEVIN – Saddly this is still going on and most all listed above are into this very thing – but added to this is also Crowders smoking Pot with God and all the guied visualization and Portal travel that goes along with this and the “Fire Tunnels I witnessed at one of Bentleys conferances and a couple of I-Hops staff there also – helping with the tunnel – the Kundalini Spirit is the most fearsonm I have seen – I have video of Lakeland as Todd was laying hands on a young woman and saying – :Fire – Fire – which I could see when this woman fell to the floor it was truely the fire from hell – she grabbed he button and kept shoving something away like she was being raped – it was just awful and Todd laughed and would go back again and toch her and scream Fire – Fire – I watched and believe I have it also on video – a parent give Todd their what looked like a three year old daughter for Todd to hold – and she looked him straight in the face and he started laughing and stuck his tonge our and she started screaming in sheer terror shaking her head – and everyone started laughing – It truely was more than I could bear.

    I should give Andrew these videos for further proof of what this spirit can do .

    Well Once again these people need to be exposed and I thank god Andrew is bold to do so – perhaps some may be snaxhed from the fire. – Lynn –

  202. harvestisripe Nov 4th 2010

    Yes, I was shocked when I saw Steve Hill and John Kilpatrick got on the stage at Lakeland. I believe they have since publicly repented of that. I give them credit for that.

    Michael do you know if they have done this – is this available to see on the webb – for all who were being molested by the evil spirits there – this Apology might just be the healing balm that many who were so damaged need – I am told by some there was massive depression – and of course you speak of who walks in deliverance and healing – Might I subjest there are thousands and thousands today the need healing and delivering from these evil spirits the Kundalini spirit from the witchraft these people of renoun have allowed in the church – who were suppose to be protecing Gods sheep but in fact have turned on them – wolves for sure, who refuse to repent and who continue to take Chrits precious sheep down the wide path towards destruction – truely their conscienes have been sieared.

    SAINTS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM FLEE FROM THEEM – THEY ARE UNCLEAN – ALL WHO ANDREW HAS EXPOSED;

  203. watchful Nov 5th 2010

    Kevin, I appreciate you sharing your experience – I was a regular attender at Toronto and came to the same conclusion that you did – that what started out as a move of the Holy Spirit turned into a big flesh-fest, an idolatrous commotion – the Holy Spirit withdrew and another spirit moved in and took His place. The people I talked to didn’t seem aware that God’s presence had left and they just kept carrying on as though He was still there. You are the first person I’ve heard with a similar experience. Emptiness is the right word, it was an awful empty feeling, for me it became like trying to swim in a river with no water, and I wondered how come no-one seemed to notice the water had disappeared.

  204. Gary Simpson Nov 5th 2010

    Michael wrote:

    I have yet to find a perfect person in all my years as a Christian. But I have found some really godly and wonderful people along the way. Notwithstanding the comments of Jeri that people who sin are not actually born again, I find that we all fall short of the GLORY of GOD in one way or another at various times.

    Gary’s comment:

    I find comments such as this one very offensive, since Michael is obviously claiming to be a Christian, and talking about the Church of Jeusu Christ.

    Did God call you to judge His Chruch, and to announce your findings on this forum, or

    are you speaking in the flesh and simply being obedient to the accuser of the brethren? Who are you serving with your tongue?

    Do you believe what you think you see and hear, or what the Word of God clearly says? Made perfect, freedom from sin, holiness, mature, signs will accompany, fruit of the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, conformed to the image of Christ?

    I cannot believe that you are being led by the Holy Spirit to say such things.

  205. Gary Simpson Nov 5th 2010

    Michael wrote:

    You do state that you want to see God’s miraculous but let me ask: when was the last time you saw it through your own ministry? Have there been I have no idea of the answer to this – but please – when is the last time you saw deaf ears open, or blind eyes open, or such things?

    These things are happening with SOME of the ministries you criticize – e.g. Heidi Baker, Bill Johnson. Would you say the devil is doing these things or is it God?

    If it is God, should we not seek to learn what we can from these ministries?

    Gary’s comment:

    First of all, Satan can and has perfomend miraculous signs, which he will not hesitate to use for his advantage. Any ear he has made deaf, he can open.

    Example: My mother-in-law was raised a Christian Scientist. Her first child, my wife, was near death, and was taken to a Christian Science practitioner for healing. As a result, my wife was completely healed, and my mother-in-law was a believing Christian Scientist for life. Her child’s healing completely convinced her of the absolute truth of the Christian Science religion. Satan used this healing to claim her soul.

    Secondly, since we cannot rely on the miracles alone to determine the spirit which performed it, we must rely on what the Word of God says will accompany the work of the Holy Spirit.

    We cannot walk both in the flesh, and in the Spirit; We cannnot be filled with the Spirit unless we sincerely repent of our carnality (flesh).

    When we are controlled by our flesh, we are a slave to sin, and can do nothing to please God.

    When we are controlled by the Spirit, we are a slave to righteousness, we will fulfill all of the righteous requirements of the Law, and we will not obey the lusts of our flesh.

    Holiness, humility, and the fruit of the Spirit will be manifested in the life of a Son of God who is continuiously led by the Spirit of God.

    If you don’t see these character qualities in the life of a “Christian Leader”, don’t follow them, because they are not walking in the Spirit, and are not being led by the Spirit of God. They will lead you to sin, death, and destruction.

    You tell me: How do Heidi Baker and Bill Johnson measure up to these Biblical standards?

    If you are looking for miracles, Satan can, and will lead you astray.

    If you are looking for truth, the only source is the Holy Spirit of God. His holiness will always accompany His ministry.

    Gary

  206. Gary, I wholeheartedly agree with the above post! Rick asked how can you discern a false minister who performs miracles ect… you just posted the answer! Praise God :-)

  207. Kevin Nov 5th 2010

    Gary and Tyrone, did you see Stanly Frodsham’s 1965 prophecy that was posted on the forum about 3 weeks ago.

    Sadly it showed another situation of Holy ministers under the true anointing , being deceived by seducing spirits, and falling into the hands of the enemy, while retaining their giftings. This was allowed in order to sift followers.

    Its worth reading the prophecy as my paraphrase doesn’t go close to doing it justice.

  208. Mrs Luther Nov 5th 2010

    Yes…I think this is the prophetic word from Mr Frodham

    QUOTE:-
    I warn you to search the Scriptures diligently these last days. For the
    things that are written shall indeed be made manifest. There shall come
    deceivers among My people in increasing numbers, who shall speak forth the
    truth and shall gain the favor of the people.

    For the people shall examine the Scriptures and say, “What these men say
    is true.” Then when they have gained the hearts of the people, then and
    THEN ONLY shall they bring out these wrong doctrines. Therefore, I say
    that you should not give your hearts to men, nor hold people’s persons in
    admiration. For by these very persons shall Satan enter into My people.

    WATCH FOR SEDUCERS. Do you think a seducer will brandish a new heresy and
    flaunt it before the people? He will speak the words of righteousness and
    truth, and will appear as a minister of light, declaring the Word. The
    people’s hearts shall be won. Then, when the hearts are won, they will
    bring out their doctrines, and the people shall be deceived. The people
    shall say, “Did he not speak thus and thus? And did we not examine it from
    the Word? Therefore he is a minister of righteousness.

    This that he has now spoken we do not see in the Word, but it must be
    right, for the other things he spoke were true.”

    Be not deceived. For the deceiver will first work to gain the hearts of
    many, and then shall bring forth his insidious doctrines. You cannot
    discern those who are of Me and those who are not of Me when they start to
    preach. But seek Me constantly, and then when these doctrines are brought
    out you shall have a witness in your heart that these are not of Me. Fear
    not, for I have warned you. Many will be deceived. But if you walk in
    holiness and uprightness before the Lord, your eyes shall be open and the
    Lord will protect you. If you will constantly look unto the Lord you will
    know when the doctrine changes, and will not be brought into it. If your
    heart is right I will keep you; and if you will look constantly to Me I
    will uphold you.

    The minister of righteousness shall be on this wise — his life shall
    agree with the Word, and his lips shall give forth that which is wholly
    true, and it will be no mixture. When the mixture appears then you will
    know he is not a minister of righteousness. The deceivers speak first the
    truth and then error, to cover their own sins which they love. Therefore I
    exhort and command you to study the Scriptures relative to seducing
    spirits, for this is one of the great dangers of these last days.

  209. Kevin Nov 5th 2010

    This was the part I was referring to:

    When I visit My people in mighty revival power, it is to prepare them for the darkness ahead. With the glory shall come great darkness, for the glory is to prepare My people for the darkness. I will enable My people to go through because of the visitation of My Spirit. Take heed to yourselves lest you be puffed up and think that you have arrived. Many shall be puffed up as in the olden days, for many then received My message but they continued not in it. Did I not anoint Jehu? Yet the things I desired were not accomplished in his life. Listen to the messengers, but do not hold men’s persons in admiration. For many whom I shall anoint mightily, with signs and miracles, shall become lifted up and shall fall by the wayside. I do not this willingly; I have made provision that they might stand. I call many into this ministry, and equip them; but remember that many shall fall. They shall be like bright lights, and the people shall delight in them. But they shall be taken over by deceiving spirits and shall lead many of My people astray.

  210. Kevin Nov 5th 2010

    I meant to say the above is part of Stanley Frodshams 1965 prophecy

  211. Kevin Nov 5th 2010

    Ive bumped the prophecy up to the first page on the Forum under “1965 prophecy ” for any who want to read .

  212. watchful Nov 5th 2010

    Kevin wrote:

    “Sadly it showed another situation of Holy ministers under the true anointing , being deceived by seducing spirits, and falling into the hands of the enemy, while retaining their giftings. This was allowed in order to sift followers.”

    That really nails it for me very well, He tests hearts and there has been a separation going on. The Lord really has been in control all along. It seems to me there are maybe a few who’s hearts are still soft and seeking and will at least listen when someone tries to correct some error, but then there are others who’s hearts seem perverse and hard who I think we can just pray for and give them to the Lord. May the Lord grant that we remain soft and seeking! (Been enjoying reading your posts on the forum by the way, glad to have this chance to say, ‘Amen’ to a lot of what you say.)

    Mrs. Luther – regarding your post, I think this is one reason why we are not to be loyal to ‘personalities’ no matter how much we may love or like them in the human sense, I think it’s actually a form of idolatry, even though it seems ‘normal’ on a human level. Jesus says to hate our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers – we need to be separated from them unto the Lord alone, and our unity must be through Him alone not through each other. Then we won’t be led astray by each other or by anyone ministering to us, and we can useful in ‘watching each other’s backs’ so to speak. It’s an area where vigilance is needed, at least for me!

  213. HappyTrails Nov 5th 2010

    AMEN! Gary Simpson
    Gary says:
    “If you are looking for miracles, Satan can, and will lead you astray.
    If you are looking for truth, the only source is the Holy Spirit of God. His holiness will always accompany His ministry.”

    ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, GOD WILL BE THE ONE TO ACTUALLY GIVE YOU OVER TO YOUR IDOLS AND gods, UNTIL YOU HAVE A BELLY FULL…….until you realize that your idols and gods are dead, “just wood”, and CANNOT supply all your needs, CANNOT rescue you, CANNOT give you life, CANNOT keep you from destruction.

  214. HappyTrails Nov 5th 2010

    watchful…..I really like your analogy of the river …..trying to swim without water! Very Good!

  215. Gary, when I read the story of Heidi Baker, I see a heart of humility, mercy, compassion, love for the poor as well as evidence of a supernatural God at work. I am not a student of Bill Johnson as such – I don’t actually spend a lot of time reading and listening to everyone else – I wish I had more time to do so – but anecdotal evidence to me points to a humble man who has flaws and has endorsed people I don’t agree with – but nevertheless has done a great work in releasing people to do the kind of evangelism described in Mark 16:15-20.

    You criticize me because it is clear to you that I am not speaking as a prophet of God by direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit – and therefore I am just operating in the “flesh”, whereas presumably everything you say is led by the Holy Spirit. Do you apply that standard to your own life? If you say you do, what evidence do you have that you are not deceiving yourself?

    I’ve come onto this blog as an outsider to your community. My purpose is to ask probing questions. I am starting to get some answers and clarification on what the main people here actually believe.

    So far what I see is:

    * Anyone associated with anyone Andrew has named – Steve Hill, Heidi Baker, Bill Johnson etc etc is doing miracles and preaching by the power of the devil – don’t go near them.

    * Real Christians don’t sin. Or at least, they conform to certain standards we feel we are keeping. So if we can find fault with someone’s ministry we know they are going to the Lake of Fire and they are in the Matthew 7:21-23 category.

    * We believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit but don’t ask us for an up-to-date testimony of when we last flowed in power evangelism, because we should not “chase signs”

    * We are totally led by the Spirit and you are not.

    Is that a fair summary?

    Just for the record:
    God has used me in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, to plant churches, to establish ministries etc. I am not a perfect person, and I long to be changed more into the image of Christ. I hardly ever go to conferences to hear famous speakers these days – maybe I am the poorer for it. I’m just too busy with family, business and responsibilities. I do not agree with much of what is going on in the charismatic world today, but I believe that the Bible supports the charismatic position. I believe the Bible COMMANDS us to desire spiritual gifts, not just tolerate them, the Bible COMMANDS us to preach the gospel and tells us that signs and wonders will follow us if we BELIEVE.

    I believe that Christians are being sanctified progressively and that a person who genuinely wants God will be delivered progressively of sins and the inward desires for sins through the power of the cross.

    I don’t like talking about myself, but I thought I should make my position a bit clear.

    I came to this forum to see how you guys approach the difficult situation we all find ourselves in. I’m sorry if that “offends” you if I imply that there is a mess. I haven’t found your church of perfect totally led by the Spirit all the time Christians yet, so forgive me for my blindness.

  216. Mrs Luther Nov 5th 2010

    Watchful
    Paul did say to follow him, as he followed Christ.

    When we, as Paul also said, are able to ‘rightly divide’ the Word, and walk in the light of it, as it washes our hearts of their idolotary, and lusts of the flesh, then we know those people who are also on that narrow path.

    However, if they depart or are coming into deception then we can go to them, and take others with us, to
    show from the scriptures. If they still continue to
    depart from the faith into these seducing spirits and go the way of Baalam etc etc, then we are to shake the dust off our feet and contnue to build the true body into maturity.

    So yes we can be ‘loyal’ to those brothers and sisters who remain faithful to the Lord, and when they depart as Demas did, from Paul Why? because he loved this world more….he could not pay the price.
    Paul let him go…He made a choice not to follow and stay in the way…
    Paul & Co continued to follow Christ, and minister to those with him, who also stayed faithful. and ther was loyality, and love amongst them.

    But I do know what you mean watchful…MANY look to these false leaders as Gods mouthpiece, and cannot discern the error and because thee sheep do not really ‘know’ Christ, AND His sufferings, they idolize these false leaders, which is why Christ said to be ye perfect (listening Michael) as He is perfect, and that is ‘spiritually mature’. check the greek

  217. HappyTrails Nov 5th 2010

    Michael…..As a TRUE PROPHET OF GOD WOULD KNOW VERY WELL…………A PROPHET IS OPEN TO JUDGMENT BY OTHER TRUE PROPHETS OF GOD.

    ALSO, A TRUE PROPHET OF GOD KNOWS THEY HAVE TO RIGHTS! NO RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED BY JUDGMENT.

  218. HappyTrails Nov 5th 2010

    1Cr 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

  219. @MrsLuther: So we are to be spiritually mature, as our Father in heaven in spiritually mature. Is that what you are saying?

    Seriously folks, we should aim at perfection, we should never aim for sin. But let us not be too quick to assume that we have achieved what we are aiming for.

  220. Andrew Nov 5th 2010

    Michael – did you used to come on our old “RS” forum?

    -Andrew

  221. I have visited it Andrew but I very rarely if ever posted anything.

  222. Mrs Luther Nov 5th 2010

    Actually Michael it is not what I am saying.
    It is what the Word of God SAYS

    Try doing a word study of ‘Telios’ and ‘Tamim’
    and then come back and seriously tell the folks
    if you believe God or not.

  223. HappyTrails Nov 5th 2010

    oops I see a typo in one of my comments.

    ALSO, A TRUE PROPHET OF GOD KNOWS THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS!

    NO RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED BY JUDGMENT.

  224. watchful Nov 5th 2010

    Thanks Mrs. Luther..yes, it’s a fine line, or maybe better to say it’s a matter of being on the right foundation in our loyalties, through Christ. He has been teaching me about the need for complete separation, that this is the meaning of “shutting the door”, everything after that will be through Christ, including love and loyalty, etc..

  225. harvestisripe Nov 5th 2010

    Michael even though we do not agree on these manifestations coming from these people, and I really do believe the body of Christ has to be so causious of all of this you do need to be treated fairly here. I hope to see this.

  226. harvestisripe Nov 5th 2010

    Michael
    Just for the record:
    God has used me in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, to plant churches, to establish ministries etc. I am not a perfect person, and I long to be changed more into the image of Christ. I hardly ever go to conferences to hear famous speakers these days – maybe I am the poorer for it. I’m just too busy with family, business and responsibilities. I do not agree with much of what is going on in the charismatic world today, but I believe that the Bible supports the charismatic position. I believe the Bible COMMANDS us to desire spiritual gifts, not just tolerate them, the Bible COMMANDS us to preach the gospel and tells us that signs and wonders will follow us if we BELIEVE.

    I believe that Christians are being sanctified progressively and that a person who genuinely wants God will be delivered progressively of sins and the inward desires for sins through the power of the cross.

    I don’t like talking about myself, but I thought I should make my position a bit clear.

    I came to this forum to see how you guys approach the difficult situation we all find ourselves in.

    LYNN:
    Mike much of what you say here I agree with

  227. Gary Simpson Nov 5th 2010

    Kevin wrote:

    Gary and Tyrone, did you see Stanly Frodsham’s 1965 prophecy that was posted on the forum about 3 weeks ago.

    Sadly it showed another situation of Holy ministers under the true anointing , being deceived by seducing spirits, and falling into the hands of the enemy, while retaining their giftings. This was allowed in order to sift followers.

    Gary’s comment:

    I do not believe that the above paragraph from Stanley Frodsham’s prophecy is biblical.

    I do not believe that you can find scriptural references of any New Testiment believers who could be classified as “Holy Ministers under the true anointing,” being deceived by seducing spirits, and falling into the hands of the enemy.

    There may be an occasional “Ananias and Sapphira” who get caught in the flesh, but this is not an example of a mature, living in the Spirit, leader of the pack.

    I believe that scripture teaches exactly the opposite: that we are in the palm of God’s hand, and no one can snatch us out.

    I believe that when a professing Christian falls away, they are simply a goat (not a sheep) who has finally been exposed for who they really are.

    I believe that being filled with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, and a holy life are the norm, not the exception for true believers.

    Scripture says in Romans 8:
    RO 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.

    My question for Stanley, and anyone else who believes what he says in this so called prophecy, is:

    If the Holy Spirit of God is in control of you (by your choice), who in this universe has the power to take you away from Him?

    I know of none!

  228. @Mrs Luther
    Are you as spiritually mature as God the Father?

  229. Mrs Luther Nov 5th 2010

    Michael

    Do you believe God or your own doctrines?

  230. Gary Simpson Nov 5th 2010

    Michael

    With these “probing” questions of yours

    Are you trying to build up the body of Christ, or tear it down?

    You seem to be trying to divide rather than unite.

    I wonder if you even know what “spiritually mature” means, after reading your above question to Mrs Luther?

  231. Mrs Luther Nov 5th 2010

    I find it interesting how one of satans main ploys is to
    prevent the bride from coming to maturity as declared by our Lord.

    Yes satan tries to stop salvation, then trys to trip you up all along the way by his….’Did the Word really say….and then again trying to prevent maturity.

    But we all know him when he surfaces to play his games…

  232. Mrs Luther Nov 5th 2010

    Gary appreciate your input, and comments,

    This is how I see it.
    Part of the apostolic/prophetic gifting does include tearing down, and rebuke and corrrection, obvioulsly when there is error or false accusations against the saints.
    What has been built on the foundation of Christ, that is not of him does, need to be torn down, so the true can be laid, on the foundation of Christ, and the apostles and prophets. That is the Lords pattern right !!!

    Now as for division. it says to ‘mark’ one who causes diviision, that is between true brethern, however their is a division between flesh and spirit and as we know Jesus addressed those who were His or those He was teaching with gentleness etc etc, but those who
    were flesh and came against Him, with their accusations out of their carnal minds, or their flesh, He addressed them accordingly, and spoke truth.
    Some changed, and followed Him ,and His truth, and others knew the price was tooo much, as they departed from him, therefore a type of division.

  233. Gary Simpson Nov 5th 2010

    Well spoken, Mrs Luther