-extracts by J. Lee Grady.

Chris Oyakhilome, a popular African preacher with questionable credentials, is sparking international concern…

One of the most controversial figures in Romania today is Chris
Oyakhilome, a Nigerian broadcaster and faith healer who lives in
South Africa. Although this smooth-talking preacher has never
been to Romania, his influence has grown through his TV programs
and books. Meanwhile, some gullible Romanian church leaders
have visited his ministry base in Johannesburg and then returned
to impart his miracle power to their congregations.

But Oyakhilome’s “power” is questionable—and it is spreading
not only in eastern Europe but in many other parts of the world,
including the United States.

Nigerian Christians have long complained that Christ Embassy is
a cult—mainly because members reportedly are forced to give
money in offerings and are pressured to marry only within their
church. Oyakhilome was accused of engineering a money laundering
scheme in Nigeria in 2010, and questions swirl around his finances
because of his glamorous lifestyle.

Theologians and cult-monitoring groups have documented their
concerns about Oyakhilome’s “New Creation” doctrine — a form
of gnosticism that says after a person becomes a Christian, any
sin they commit is only in the body and will not affect the spirit.
Oyakhilome mixes this doctrine with a hybrid version of the
American prosperity gospel, claiming that God wants all people
to be rich.

Oyakhilome’s reputation as a faith healer was tarnished badly in
2008 in Johannesburg when a man told a Soweto newspaper that
Christ Embassy offered him more than $1,200 (U.S.) to sit in a
wheelchair and pretend to be crippled until Oyakhilome prayed
for him. The man went to the media instead of taking the money,
sparking concerns that healings were being faked to impress
growing crowds.

When I came to Romania last week I was surprised to learn how
many Christians here had come under Oyakhilome’s influence.
But as I did further research I found that Oyakhilome’s popularity
is growing far beyond eastern Europe. Thanks to YouTube,
Internet TV channels and a public that is often biblically illiterate,
Christians today are as vulnerable as ever to religious impostors
and deceptive con-artists.

Jude, the brother of Jesus, warned us 2,000 years ago about such
false prophets. “For certain persons have crept in unnoticed …
ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness
and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ” (Jude 4, NASB).
Paul also warned that people will demand false teachers to fulfill
their lusts, and that those teachers will “turn away their ears from
the truth” (2 Tim. 4:3-4). Those ancient words are painfully relevant today.

I feel I must sound an alarm as well. As much as I want to see
healing miracles restored to the church today, I’m not willing to
fling open the door to deception. The devil can fake miracles, and
if we don’t apply discernment in this vulnerable hour, impostors
will sneak into the church and unleash their doctrines—with
deadly results. Please don’t be duped by counterfeits.



Posted in Uncategorized by Andrew on June 29th, 2012 at 7:55 pm.


145 Replies

  1. signs, wonders and miracles WERE restored by God
    soon after the anointing was restored during the early
    1900’s. (Azusa St, etc)…the years of miracle restoration
    was 1940/50’s as we saw with the many “tent” meetings
    across the world.

  2. Andrew Jun 29th 2012

    Yes – I agree with you, Walter.

    I believe very strongly in healings and miracles for today.

    But I also believe there are sadly many counterfeits – just as Jesus said.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  3. RichardC Jun 29th 2012

    Amen, brother! May the LORD raise up people of God with, no only the gift of discernment, but the the boldness to speak out against false teaching, deception and false “anointings”.

  4. Francois Jun 29th 2012

    The highest trees catches the most winds!

    A lesson I learned early in my walk with Christ is not to judge people in authority, especially if you have never met such a person. Jesus was also accused and judged in His day and so were His disciples.

    Leave the judging for the Spirit then you won’t put yourself at risk of being judged by God. If you had personal interaction with a guy like this Pastor Chris and the Spirit revealed to you false teaching, then it is a different story.

  5. ValleyAnt Jun 29th 2012

    So many false gospels being preached (by teaching, lifestyle, and signs). May God continue to embolden His People to stand up for truth and righteousness and to use the discernment the Holy Spirit distributes as He wills to everyone who has the Spirit. Amen.

  6. I am amazed you only name one person in this. As I listened to a minister I really enjoy this week I hear him say anyone trying to live right or saying we must live according to the word has a religious spirit. He used scripture to back up what he said, so with that he had to throw out two thirds of the gospel message. Oh yes, and the crowds are swarming these people. Many there be…. . Few there be…… . What group do we really want to be in

  7. sharon Jun 29th 2012

    In the article he said the devil can fake miracle’s.
    This didn’t compute for me. Why would the devil heal or deliver.
    When has he restored sight to the blind?

  8. Personally I belief this Chris oyakhilome is of Christ , I personally Know friends in our country who are part of that organization who are being deliver from the power of darkness through the instrumentality of that organization. That might not be a perfect proof of one genuineness , but what I speak I speak with my walk with the Lord. Having said that I do not agree with all of his teachings. I know he preaches prosperity, I am not against prosperity by walking with the leading of the holy spirit , in fact the reason why must of us in Africa keep begging aids from western Christians is because most of us do not know how to trust the Lord for the supply of our needs in stead keep relying on the arm of the flesh . If we do not know how to received our needs from the Lord we will become slaves of men. The Lord himself teach me prosperity because in Him I have found something more reliable than bank account. Recently I was talking with my brother about a friends of ours in a certain denomination , we where so sympathetic knowing how he have become a bondage to the system , and he cannot even raise a family though getting older , a word came within me ” if this brother knew what it mean to walk with the holy spirit he will never be in bondage to men or systems ” He do not have to rely on men . It does not mean because once is safe every things is possess. The holy spirit will guide us in things related to Life , His wisdom is needed in all things , yet we must learn to walk in the spirit.. But I also belief there are excess in the way the prosperity teaching is presented , the worst part is when men are told to wish anything and they will get it , that is a walk in the flesh. I know there is a place of degree, but it must be what the Father witness within. Actually what I love about this man is his teachings on Intimacy and devotions are edifying to me. Actually stated listening his message some months ago , I heard about him years ago but was not interested about him because I taught all that he had was miracles and prosperity teachings.
    About the hear says and rumors the Lord have personally warned me on rushing into conclusion by just heresay. Will not touch. To those who believe he is false personally I do not condemn any one , we are save by believing in Jesus not in believing or dis believing Chris oyakhilome.

  9. Kathleen in WA State Jun 29th 2012

    I am so very grateful when “other gospels” and aberrant teachings, and those who promote them are called out. Living in the Pacific NW, many a New Ager & Native American Shaman claim similar things, and many perform miraculous signs. (We wll remember Satan’s ability to perform the miraclous when he tempted Jesus for 40 days – – and let’s not overlook Pharoah’s priests & the prophets of Baal).

    Too, I’ve witnessed many a believer & unbeliever alike to flock to the newest teaching about, or demonstration of the supernatural. Just look at the vast array of pychic programming on television these days. It’s real, not to mention that it sells.

    Thank God we have His Spirit, and the power to “test the spirits”. May we be wise & discerning, avoiding the psychic shipwrecks.

    Thank you for sharing this piece; and God bless you & yours.

  10. The problem is not with the pastors & other charlatans. It’s with the people who refuse to read their Bibles & pray. Hving servaed the Lord, mostly in leadership for over 40 yrs here is some advice.
    Every month that has 31 days read a proverb a day. On the other months read at least one Psalm a day. Also read a few chapters daily wherever else you choose to read but read the books consecutively. Now here is the important part…..DO what it says with much prayer for Gods Grace to help you. So you will have a good foundation. The key is in the doing what you read. Luke 6:47 & 48. If you’re not prepared to do it then why read, its a waste of time, you decieve yourself
    Church is (should) also very helpful but who knows which one!!!!! Attend to the first things & you’ll know which one will help you. If all christians did this there will be fewer “christian” hooligans around to decieve us…..no one will listen to them. Were the problem, not them, if we can read & have bibles that is. I have great sympathy for the illiterate masses in Africa who are decieved by these folk, but little for western christians who have NO excuse. I am a white african guy.
    Be Blessed – Ian

  11. Steve Nixon (formerly, sontrans) Jun 29th 2012

    Yes, the devil can do miralces. But these miracles, though they seem to be good, have an evil intent…whose ultimate goal is to deceive. Rev 13:14, 16:14 and 19:20. We have many false teachers and prophets in the world today, and they are growing in number constantly and will continue to do so. And their miracles will increase along with them…causing many to fall prey to them, who seek after signs such as these as some sort of ‘validation from the Lord’. Without the infilling of Holy Spirit, many do not have discernment, and even some truly spirit-filled Christians might fall if they do not exercise the gift of the Holy Spirit that they have. Many false doctrines today teach a false message even concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit so that many who are not truly born again already believe that they have been! It’s high time to do as the apostles said when they said “repent ye, and believe the gospel”!

  12. Ane Huculiak Jun 29th 2012

    I attended the healing school at Christ Embassy. I received only from God. Not once did anyone asked me to lie about healing. Do yourself a favour and go to “the easter debacle”. I experienced love at Christ Embassy where at Cornerstone Church in Morninghill Johannesburg, elders shouted at my son and I, just after my son came home from isolation of 5 months in hospital. I lost my job, and all they can do is shout at us and judge us. They know we suffer financially, but they told me “we cannot pay your bills”. I never asked them to pay my bills. I cannot afford to pay the medical aid and my son is still on chemo therapy.

    Christ Embassy never asked us for any money, nor to lie for them. I took Oyakhilome’s confession book and worked out my own prayers. I did a course at the Healing School, Christ Embassy for 21 days and I was not asked to give any money, instead we got meals and coffee and tea every day, for free. After the course, we had a choice to become partners but no one forced us to do it.

    Oyakhilome lives in Nigeria and not in South Africa. Please reply to my e-mail. I serve God and no man. I also do not want to follow false prophets.

    Thank you,

    God bless you,

  13. I live in South Africa where Chris has a few churches.
    These guys preach prosperity because they know people are in need.
    They also hook the greed that are inside people and promise them the world.
    These guys live in their mansions, drive fancy cars while the congregation live in shacks hoping that maybe one day they will reap the hundredfold return these preachers offer them.
    A lot of Nigerians are starting churches in my country and they all promise miracles, it is like a selling point.
    I believe in healing and miracles but these guys can never prove any.
    Please do a search for a sermon “10 Shekels and a shirt by Paris Reidhead” it will bless you and you will realize how these guys sell them self.

  14. I have in my possession a rat poison which is 99.995% good food. However, the 0.005% poison which it contains makes the whole thing dangerous and poisonous to any rodent which is not discriminating. The label claims it kills with just one feeding.

    I have watched “Pastor” Chris’s TV program for several years and as one who has been taught of the Lord (over decades) to discriminate and judge the fruits and teachings of those who claim to be “men of God,” I can confirm that this man is a false prophet, a false teacher, a false pastor, and a false Christian.

    Many of his teachings sound and appear like “good” Biblical teaching and preaching (never mind his claims to healings and miracles). However, when one examines them carefully in the light of what the Bible actually teaches (especially over a longer time period as I have done) it becomes clear that this imposter is a ravenous wolf in sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15 – 20).

    Every true believer who truly is one of the “few” (Matthew 7:13, 14) follows Christ in His character. Christ did not amass this world’s riches but rather followed after the true riches as we are also told to do (Matt.6:19-21). The fact that “pastor Chris” has focussed on amassing this world’s riches to himself and exhorts others to do the same tells us plainly where this man’s heart is (Matt. 6:21) – and it is NOT after the Lord Jesus Christ.

    I have also followed Lee Grady for some time and have confidence that his character is such that he would not write about this man without doing fairly indepth research to make certain his claims were true. So any who would write here against Lee and his claims in this article should be certain of their facts before attacking what he says, lest they be found to be fighting against the Holy Spirit and His work.

    Brothers and sisters, we are commanded by Christ and the apostles to know the truth and beware of those who teach (by word and/or example) who teach anything contrary. I exhort and encourage you to feed upon the Word of God, not only reading, but memorizing, and prayerfully meditating and studying it. Then, live it. If we do not live the knowledge our Master reveals to us of Himself and His life in us, then are we any better than these imposters who live and preach a deceptive lifestyle?

    The BEST defense against the counterfeit is to intimately know the True and be living and walking in It.

    God bless,

  15. Just two little points who do the really honor, what is their fruit like.
    It amazes me that we are interested in the miraculous, this alone will get us into trouble for we are not called to search for and practices the miraculous put preach Christ and Him crucified. The Lord will take care of the signs and wonders our responsibility is simple honor and worship God then the rest will follow.
    It is doing the will of God that Jesus calls more important then miracles (Mat 7:21).
    This is what happens when we are agenda setters rather than God worshipers ( a submissive and obedient heart rather than singing)

  16. Charles Areson Jun 30th 2012

    We have lived in Nigeria for 4 years, Jos for the last three. Called as Watchmen we must sadly say with tears that what is mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg. If true Biblical transformation is not forthcoming soon withing the so-called “Body of Christ: a bloody holocaust, a catastrophe beyond the worst nightmare, is coming upon Nigeria and perhaps much more of the world as well.
    God wants to bring transformation to the nation, but without it coming first to those who claim His Name, the crooked politics and massive corruption will just continue to get worse until… We must pray, but without corresponding action – standing up openly and vocally for Truth, prayer is just a meaningless exercise that may make us feel good for a time.

    Blessings and shalom.

  17. As for Chris no idea. But for someone to group him with TB Joshua is sadistic enough to say the least.Kindly clarify how TB Josshua is a halatan. He feeds the widows and orphans .He heals through the holy spirit.Let’s avoid this judgemental attitudes or you know it all. please always clarify your allegations because you do enough damage to young Christians with unsubstantiated claims.

  18. TruthorLie Jun 30th 2012

    You have brought this man to my attention….and after watching several videos….I have seen much repentance in the audience. I heard him call for people to ask the Lord for forgiveness for certain sins.

    Yes I saw miracles on these videos….without confirmation.
    BUT what confirmation do we have for ANY miracle?

    When some person IMPARTS anything from the Holy Spirit to another person….the IMPARTATION IS TEMPORARY unless that person has their own personal permanent anointing of the Holy Spirit within them.

    An IMPARTATION to someone who does not walk with God personally will last only 20 days…if that long. Because if the person who received the impartation does not repent and submit to the Lord…..the impartation will come to an end because of sin.



    ANYTHING that comes from the Living God in revelatory POWER will OFFEND THE RELIGIOUS NATURAL FLESH.

    It happened when Jesus walked the earth; It has happened through out the time since.

    There is nothing new under the sun.

  19. Kathleen in WA State Jun 30th 2012

    “An IMPARTATION to someone who does not walk with God personally will last only 20 days … ” Huh????

  20. I live in a world that is opposite of what God wants for it is a slave of sin, kept in darkness because it doesn’t want to hear the truth but rather has its own wisdom which exalts itself.
    I do not know what God will or will not do, only this as he taught Job to trust Him in all things so the church needs to trust Him in all things.
    I work at a gas bar and you soon learn to tune out all this lack of confidence in God for all it does is boast of what self doesn’t have or wants.
    It is ironic that the world preaches the glory of self pride in self, the very thing that causes us to be negative about live and its circumstances. Our pride must be in Christ not in ourselves that is the gospel, that is worship.
    It is easy to perceive the disasters to come if God does not intervene, it is the man that trusts God to keep him no matter what and looks toward God in the midst of the circumstances that survives.

  21. TruthorLie Jun 30th 2012

    The Natural Flesh is impulsive.

    It takes TIME to come into the Presence of God and to inquire of Him and be directed to His written Word of confirmation by His Holy Spirit.

  22. Did you know that God judges us by what we do rather then what we know?

  23. Pastor Brian Bennett Jun 30th 2012

    Blessings of God to you brother Andrew
    2 Tomothy 4:1-5 is so so true
    The truth of the living God destroys the work of and exposes them.
    Also I declare preach and live in Christ Jesus the Lord and king of kings.
    Love on another as Jesus loved us first, love on another and love the ones that need Jesus and his salvation despising the garment of the worlds mess
    In Jesus name amen

  24. Oyakhilome, could not bribe anyone to say he was healed. He does like ALL other peachers, they do not talk to people. One does not get near them. At least he does not have pride. I met two preachers in my life, one is pastor Willie Van Staden, who has time and love to talk to people after the service. I do not believe the man from Soweto’s story. Oyakhilome got rich, just like Joyce Meyer, and many other preachers. All other churches in South Africa charged a lovely amount to attend the healing school. Oyakhilome’s Christ Embassy does not charge any money.

  25. It is appalling that any Christian would see Christ working in Chris Oyakhilome’s ministry!!!!!!! Yes…..Jesus was also accused and judged in His day but not for those things that stand out in Oyakhilome’s reputation. Jesus did not live a glamorous lifestyle, and did not have anyone claim that they were paid to pretend healing. Jesus and His disciples endangered their lives….they did not promote their own wealth…or try to improve their material status.

    Are people really so gullible in this day????? Wake up…before it is too late.

    No where in the Bible does it indicate any type of worship in Christ’s time other than dignified worship. There were no hysterics in Christ’s time. Christ was soft spoken and did not preach for donations!!!!!! Christ gave His miracles away. Faith is not about how high the pot is boiling or how hysterical the emotions are rising. That is a sign of SATAN! Satan wants the “flash”…satan wants to make fools of man, especially those who claim to be christian.

    I literally want to toss up what I have eaten when I see what satan is doing within groups of christians….turning so many true seekers away….and turning many others into dry, or shallow stream beds.

    I truly believe that many christians do not know their Bible, have not studied it or read it.

    Yes…satan can do miracles with the best of them….and there will be many wonders performed in these endtimes….true supernatural events….not these faked events that I see on TV (and within this article) by “whitch doctors” and money promoters. It is well known that buying into hysteria on a high enough emotional level can change your life….but it has nothing to do with God….it is how the human mind is wired….it comes from the sense of belonging to a group….security. Which can be good…but not when it is promoted with lies, deception, dishonor, self promotion, and hysteria…..and especially if it does not lead to a desire to know the Bible, but remains a superficial groupy thing. If the conversion does not also lead to that extensive and quiet walk alone with God and the Bible….but only to hysteria while in the midst of a group mind orgy….than it is not genuine.

    Satan will also be masquerading as something good when he comes upon the scene….and the world will flock to him, even the most elect if not for the witness of the Holy Spirit.

    There was no evil taint to Jesus Christ….it was all good…even that which He was accused of was good works. His accusers were bad and did not like the good. I think we should all be able to agree that Oyakillome is being accused of dishonorable things, and there are witnesses who turned down money in order to state the truth of the matter. Where is commonsense….is it gone from the world now???????

    TruthorLie…. as for the true repentence you have seen….. no credit can be given to a deceiver and promoter.

    If my mind is open, and ready to receive Jesus Christ and what He has to offer me….that can happen while I am gazing in awe at a huge redwood tree that God created….or by my state of mind at a meeting which is being presided over by a witchdoctor or Deceiving Pretender! The gift received did not come from the tree or the deceiver….it came from God….and no credit can be given to the false one who is orchestrating and pretending. Our walk and relationship with Jesus Christ is a one on one relationship FIRST….than we extend that love received by associating with God’s people and sharing with them, helping them bear the burden of this fallen world.

    Yes….Charles Areson…..a bloody holocaust, a catastrophe beyond the worst nightmare, is coming upon Nigeria and perhaps much more of the world as well…..it is written in the Bible…and God does not deceive.

    Simon…yes we do know what God is going to do….He told us within the Bible. We need to believe Him and stop looking for a way out….and instead, start looking for ways to help others during those times.

  26. Ane…..did Jesus live in mansions? Did He travel in kingly chariots? Are we not to walk with Him, emmulate Him? We can trust Him because He kept it simple and unpretentious. He did not have facial surgeries to make him look younger…exhibiting a vain self interest….nor did He go around in the latest fashions. He kept life simple. His sermons were simple and not long drawn out. The power and honesty in His words did require elaborate oratory or psychology.

    Any preacher living in a mansion and not a simple house is keeping money from the poor and those who need food. Our preachers….just like Jesus Christ…..are to be exemplary examples of living the Word.

    How did they get rich, Ane….think about it….how did they get rich????? Did they keep monies coming in to their ministry that should have been used to feed the hungry in Africa or elsewhere? Was that fancy pair of shoes worth the bloated belly of a starving child who could have lived for 2 years off that price of the pair of shoes? What motivated them to become rich….why would one pray for wealth…when it is directly contrary to what Jesus Christ taught?

  27. I left the “NOT” out of the below sentence in my post above.

    The power and honesty in His words did NOT require elaborate oratory or psychology.

  28. Kathleen in WA….my best guess is that phrase:

    “An IMPARTATION to someone who does not walk with God personally will last only 20 days … ”

    Is what the fakers came up with to explain why 21 days later the one who was healed is not healed anymore….obviously God took away the healing because they were not worthy!!!!!

  29. Pst. Vincent Candurra Jun 30th 2012

    I have been there in Johannesburg in 2009 attending a program they call it ISM international school of ministries. Im an eye witness.
    Actually they preachedprosperity and you see their leaders wearing expensive suits, shoes, using all kind of new brand smartphones, tablets and very expensive cars, all things to confirm the validity of their belief:” for I believe it I get it” is the motto!
    In those days there were visitors from East Europe, from India, from other african countries as Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, and they were deeply impacted by this message.
    There were an atmosphere of great expectancy for Past Chris and His impartation, but execept in those scheduled moments you couldnt meet with him personally, more I found many things very closed, forbidden , for example no body could introduce cameras, or camcorders, rather specific electronic scanners were used to detect cellphones set on, like to the airport!!
    In the main services nobody may use any of this staff, the ushers were ready to seize your device as soon as they notice it.
    They show videos of healings happend in the past sessions and as evidences they invited these people to give their testimony alive now.
    Actually it seemed to me that some healings were genuine, others just a forcing.
    One thing that disturbing me a lot was that at end of the course ISM, they gave us a form to fill it up, name, address, ministry so and so, and how much money you are willing to give for the Christ Embassy, on monthly basis, or for that year. It was a real commitment they required to you.
    Well seeing all the multitude of people coming from all the world four time per years, for attending several kind of courses, and simply calculating, I immagine that a great amount of money are involved.
    Hope to have been useful.

  30. There’s a connection here which you guys have missed. Chris received ” power” from TB Joshua of the Synagogue in Nigeria. He is another charlatan who also manipulates miracles, so what else do you expect from Chris ? As has been pointed out already, there’s the problem of ignorance which is ravaging many believers and we need to be like the Bereans who studied the Word diligently. Acts 17:10. I’m from Africa and familiar with the ministries of these two men and know they’re fake !

  31. Teshuva Jun 30th 2012

    Pastor Wayne,
    That 0.005% poison, is called warfarin, and is used in the drug called coumadin to thin the blood of those with heart problems.
    Since God makes it to rain on the just and the unjust, and is not a respecter of persons, I have a hard time believing that He would take a healing away, especially since Yeshua said it was our faith that made us whole.
    If there ever was an unworthy person to receive even the time of day from God it would be me, but it was His goodness that brought about repentance.
    If you tell me that their faith wavered or they did not continue to believe that the enemy was allowed to take it, then I can believe that.
    I do not think I have ever heard someone who received a healing or miracle, praise the devil, in fact just the opposite is true, and they praised God.

  32. What is the criteria for our discernment ?
    The world tells us our knowledge, God tells us by our fear of Him. For God judges things by His principals , His ways, His judgements. For God looks at the root of a thing not its end result. As young Christians we tend to look at the end result of a thing as criteria and so fall into many hurtful things. Knowledge often becomes our stumbling block in discernment as well as our own pride and ambitions.
    It is a hard thing to face we are easily led astray for we have not yet discovered how vulnerable we are.
    When we finally realize it is following Christ that keeps us safe not our knowledge we are on the way to victory
    Power for ministry does not belong to us but is Christ’s for I live by Christ’s strength not my own.
    Gideon had to loose his thousand’s and be reduced to 300, so that Gideon could not depend on himself or his army but had to depend upon God. Here in lies the secret to effective ministry, lack of confidence in one’s self in our abilities, gifts, knowledge, authority, strength and a confidence in God who alone is able to do what needs to be done.
    A servant of Christ reflects Christ for in serving our master begin to take on the characteristics of the master.
    by learning to depend on the master and put aside his own will and inclinations.
    No man has power to heal another, if he has power who is his source?
    The disciples were aware that the power for healing was Christ’s not theirs. How far have we wandered from simply trusting Christ to trying to help Christ out?

  33. pablo4u2 Jun 30th 2012

    A cult is anyone who subjects its members to a Babylonian Ten Percent Flat Tax churches use to run their business. I know people disagree with this issue , but a Flat Tax is not the way to operate a Church. If they had Faith the size of a Mustard Seed or Great Faith like the Centurion , they would not need to Fleece the Flock with Abram’s Babylonian Tax system.

  34. Who taught us to be so bitter ? Jesus condemned the Pharisees about trusting their own sense of justice and righteousness. As long as someone else is wrong, we will never be healed of our sickness, of the pain of our soul, of the fear and pride we hide behind.
    God in His grace forgave us our short comings why can’t we be obedient and forgive others of their short comings?
    We desire to reach the world with the gospel, yet the very thing needed escapes us because of our bitterness. It was love that nailed Jesus to that tree, we call ourselves Christians, yet do we love those who have fallen? Are we not eager to see their destruction, rather than their salvation? It is our own self-righteousness that is withholding the blessings we seek, the healing we need all because our greed for power and authority the control of another human being.
    Jesus came to earth to save fallen man in obedience to His Father and love for fallen man. Why then do we think and do the opposite?

  35. DeWayne Jun 30th 2012

    Having the HS within at beginning in NT eaching, is told of such person called yet a babe in the Lord, with important additional instruction for need of renewing the mind. This evident meaning mans wisdom and knowledge replaced with God’s wisdom and knowledge.

    As for a ‘seeker’ yet in flesh nature seeking the Lord, is told of a spirit leaving apparently such a person, and when returning finding his old abode swept clean and vacant, it then returned bringing additional spirits.

    Some speak about governments, apparently not realizing there are both spiritual and natural, also of God and of man. Also I hear Christians mixing these in relation to others apparently Christian, and so the (liberal or neocon) is of the devil. This tells me regardless of years reading the Bible, they are still babe’s in the Lord.

  36. Hi Lee and Andrew,
    Boy it looks like you are getting a battling over Chris (Whats his name.). I have heard him on three occasions and the more I listen the more I am convinced he is a deceiver, He trys hard to copy Benny Hinn and the way he did it and some of his words are not right, certainly trying to gain money for himself and his lifestyle.

    I was trained under Peter Morrow from New Life centre and other reputable men on the teachings of Healing and at one time had my own Healing ministry going. We had good success at times and other times it was in the Lords time to heal.

    I finally shut down the meetings because they started to become “Bless me clubs” which i detest.

    Funny though as a modern Prophet called to deliver Gods Word with acurracy, even though I am involved with another Healing Team doing what we can for people in all needs, I have not come across Healings of greatness at all there.

    I gave a correct word which resulted in a supposed Prophet who was heavily into Pornography to be stood down from ministering. Yet today after only a couple of years he is out there again doing his thing and through discernment know he has not repented with tears at all.
    Once again the Pastors who have endorsed him have dull ears and have been taken in again to allow him to tickle the ears of the saints with fancy words etc, etc.

    I looked ito this mans eyes and gave him a word from the Lord which he took home greatfully. BUT when I looked into his eyes boy Did I see the clod grey stare of the Devil still inside him.

    I feel we are so gullable as Christians and have not in many cases put on the full armour of God before stepping out.

    Be Blessed Lee/Andrew remember the Lord said “You will be persecuted for my names sake just as I am persecuted.

  37. Traveler Jun 30th 2012

    Notice the application of mammon in this ministry.

    Where there is a motivation around mammon you can rest assured that there is other problems as well.

    Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon

    Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

    There are false miracles that come from Satan. Demons can be very religious in nature. What they do is provide a counterfeit form of Christianity that is also bible based but with twisted interpretations of scripture that provide another Jesus and another God.

    2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
    2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

  38. TruthorLie Jun 30th 2012

    Throwing stones and rocks were the FRUIT of the Religious who THOUGHT they had Eternal Truth….but they were LOST……

    They did not even recognize their MESSIAH when He was right in front of their eyes.
    It will happen again.

    Mar 9:38 KJV – And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

    Mar 9:39 KJV – But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

    Mar 9:40 KJV – For he that is not against us is on our part.

  39. Many have fallen because they considered themselves better than those who have been captured by sin, and so find themselves in the same boat as those we judged as less than ourselves. All the things God has allowed us to experience has caused some to think of themselves more blessed or better than others proving ourselves just as guilty as the ones we condemn. The purpose of signs and wonders is to cause us to repent of our sins and thereby be free from the wrath to come. However today we are so eager to see so called displays of power so we can gloat over how good we are and have it. Consider if it wasn’t for the grace of God wouldn’t we be doing the same things those we see fault with?
    The spiritual man is aware how easily he can be ensnared by sin and by the grace of God remain humble helping those who are caught in their snare to find a way of escape.
    The older generations condemned sin ( which is necessary) but lacked in compassion for the fallen. Today’s generation is doing exactly the same thing condemning the fallen yet showing no mercy or desire to see them restored to fellowship with God. May God deliver us from our spiritual pride believing because we have the spirit we are somebody and know all the answers when in reality we are nothing without Christ.
    It was my younger brother who pointed out the verses on self-righteousness that set me on the track to freedom. For all our works (works not accomplished by God) are as filthy rags, why then do we boast of things not acceptable in God’s eyes?

  40. Teshuva Jun 30th 2012

    Keep pulling the fragments of loaves and fishes from your basket.

    Mar 9:39 KJV – But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

  41. dagazz Jun 30th 2012

    I don’t have a problem with exposing falsehood, but it seems the best thing to do is demonstrate the truth and give people an answer rather than point fingers. I think the doctrine of the Nicolaitans is a major cause of the problem we’re seeing.Once certain ‘special people’ are elevated and looked to as channels of truth and faith practices and the fellowship and operation of the body of believers as the church ignored – the next step is the sort of abuses we are seeing.
    Having a community based fellowship as the foundation of ministry is a good insurance against the ruthless self-seeking, self promoting ministries that exert their power from many pulpits today.

  42. Andrew Jun 30th 2012

    I have personally been to Nigeria and have watched “Pastor Chris” on TV there. Anyone with a few ounces of discernment will begin to feel that sick uneasy feeling in the pit of the stomach at watching a master manipulator at work. The “Prosperity” stuff is absolutely EVERYWHERE in Nigeria. Pastors living in palaces like kings, while the poor literally starve.

    I sadly have to agree fully with what Charles Areson said above-

    “We have lived in Nigeria for 4 years, Jos for the last three. Called as Watchmen we must sadly say with tears that what is mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg. If true Biblical transformation is not forthcoming soon withing the so-called “Body of Christ: a bloody holocaust, a catastrophe beyond the worst nightmare, is coming upon Nigeria and perhaps much more of the world as well.
    God wants to bring transformation to the nation, but without it coming first to those who claim His Name, the crooked politics and massive corruption will just continue to get worse…”

    Just like Charles, I too prophesied to the leaders that great disaster will come upon that nation if her preachers do not repent of spreading their “Mammon-worshipping” deception around the world.

    And no, Simon, it is not “loving” to stay silent and let Christ’s precious sheep become utterly deceived. That is not “love” at all.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  43. Andrew you are frustrated at the failure of others not to pay attention to your discernment, sometimes the best lesson are learned by people falling into what they want therefore loving them sometimes means letting them have what they want in the hope that after being bitten they will listen to the truth. I live in a generation where everyone has an answer but no one is really willing to listen. They are behaving like teenagers never grown up for they have never been allowed to make mistakes and so learn consequences.
    Which is more loving to cause others to be dependent on us or give them room to grow and become independent of us but dependent on Christ?
    The failure of the charismatic renewal is in keeping everyone in its frame work afraid they will go off the deep end and so keeping them in the straight and narrow becomes the leaders job. Yet instead of maturing the stagnate and become dependent on leaders rather than Christ

  44. Andrew Jun 30th 2012

    They are already “dependent on leaders” my friend. And those leaders are sadly leading them astray.

    We teach them to use their God-given discernment.

    And I repeat again, that it is not “loving” in any way to stay silent when Christ’s precious sheep are being led into dangerous deception. That is not “love”.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  45. Teshuva Jun 30th 2012

    Not trying to be disrespectful here, but we keep referring to Christs sheep, and pitying them, however scripture says that His sheep HEAR His voice and another they will not follow. So if these are Christs sheep then they Hear Him, if not then could it be goats that are in rebellion and until they do turn and listen to Him, then this is what will happen?
    If it is the sheep, and the others hearts are with greed then is not the evil set up that it will destroy the wicked?

  46. Why are people surprised? After the American preachers, bishops, and pastors raped their members for all they could get, of course they turned their sights outside of American. I wrote several Christian publications and begged them not to allow their “actors” called “pastors” to come into their country and bring their “polluted gospel” of prosperity however they found those who would allow it. They will give an account to the Lord for spreading this filth throughout the world rather than the true gospel…and so will the “sheep” who follow them because they should read the Word for themselves and not feed off of leaven. We better rise up and start preaching the TRUTH or we will have to give an account as well…smh!

  47. MANY PEOPLE WILL NOT SEE THE TRUTH UNLESS SOMEONE POINTS OUT THE FALSE ! sadly there are so many false teachers and so called prophets these days that too many persons fall into their snares. as the world becomes more and more lawless the feeling of shame dissappears from the minds of those who look to get rich anyway they can! sadly too many people won’t read the BIBLE and fall into false doctrine because it fits their lifestyle or whatever, and they believe that heaven is within their reach no matter how they live their lives !

  48. @dagazz…we are where we are because true believers did not want to “point fingers”. The American “church” has either supported or sat silently by as these deceivers have devoured the land and prostituted our Christ and His Gospel when the scriptures tell us to SPEAK out against them so others will see and fear…I Tim. 5: 20. When Paul was confronted with someone attempting to turn one from the faith he rebuked him and cursed him with blindness “for a season” and we have sat by while these men and women have turned millions from “the faith”. How long???

  49. We were warned:

    2Th 2:5-12 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    ..and now the encouragement, and good news:

    2Th 2:13-17 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

  50. Martin Jun 30th 2012

    Guess I’ll jump in with both feet and raise the point of out of church! Again!

    Having been out of it for twenty years, much of this stuff goes well over my head! I’m sure there’s so much out there my household knows nothing about. In that we are greatly blessed. I can only praise God for that.

    Many here speak of discernment; yes, of course, but that shouldn’t be seen as a convenient substitute for a thorough, disciplined study of the Bible, particularly an in depth knowledge of key passages such as Hebrews 6:1-3, where the basic doctrines of Biblical Christianity are to be found. Basic, that is, maturity is not gained in imbibing just these, but much more besides.

    May I suggest, such sound knowledge will point up any doctrinal errors in preaching and teaching and lifestyle. I’m not saying we don’t need discernment, of course we do, but not as a convenience-store substitute for sound Bible study.

    Pastor Todd, you asked what group do we really want to be in; of course, the few, in your terms. But on a wider canvas, my household has been lead out of groups as such. Ah! What a mercy that has proved to be. I must begin to sound like the Jesus and me brigade – an anathema to some. Not so in reality. Yet the group, if you will, which I’m in is world wide and unreachable to tyrants such as Pastor this, or Pastor that. Not a bad place to be.

    British TV is generally rubbish, but God TV occasionally shows Paula White. Wow! That woman is pure entertainment; she rivals Hope, Crosby, Benny … she can con $100,000 out of people without drawing a breath. Yes, in one sentence! Now, small in stature I might be, but a forty four inch chest allows me a lot of air, and still I can’t con a dollar out of my wife! That’s a pound UK.

    Just a little levity in this heavy thread. But White speaks to a group. A group of what? Mmmm. That’s for you to decide.

    Now, let’s get to Pastor Chris. Oh dear, what a mess, and such a popular mess too! And he’s not alone; maybe we should mention Hinn – hear he’s had a deep affair with Paula White while still married to his wife – or Joyce Meyer with that big diamond and a multi million dollar life style. Perhaps we should mention here Kenneth Copeland and his fleet of aircraft and family employed in the business of corrupting souls. The problem here is where to cease. Pastor Chris is only the latest on a long line of band wagons. What will his penchant be? Diamonds, aircraft, buildings, women? Just sit still, he’ll reveal his proclivities. they all do that.

    Why are we Christians so surprised by him? Why so hurt? Why so indignant? Didn’t Jesus tell us this would be a feature of the end times? Be glad, it’s yet another assurance we are in the last of the last days. Some of us on here may yet live to see the second coming of Jesus of Nazareth. This is a time in which I wish I wasn’t so old.

    And now the difficult stuff, for which I offer no apology.

    Many on this forum espouse a legitimate, institutionalised, building dwelling, church in which we partake of fellowship weekly, twice/thrice weekly; seemingly convenient, comfortable, sociable and warm and welcoming. That’s far from the New Testament model. But you know that. Of Course you do.

    Four I think, at the time of this writing, have titled themselves as pastor in posting on this thread. It’s amazing to me, the word pastor, shepherd, of which I was one in the truest sense, only occurs once in the New Testament! Ephesians 4:11. Read it!

    Our modern pastors are a type of Catholic priests. Nowhere in the NT can I find an accurate description of the role of pastor, and certainly not as we see it today! Know better? Please post it, I need to know.

    I put it to you fine people, all of whom, without exception, I have a deep love and respect for, if we dared begin to live in the New Testament Church model, the likes of Pastor Chris would have no place among us. We just would not hear him. he would have no place in our company. He would not be accruing worldly wealth from us. Nor would he be able to pervert the Gospel of Christ and Him crucified, the Gospel once delivered to us.

    Ah! Here we have a core. The Gospel once delivered is not ours alone, but to be shed abroad by us and handed to the generations after us, pure, unsullied and in tact.

    The fact is, a weakened churchianity allows the likes of Pastor Chris, and so many others, to ravage the flock. At the risk of my being blown out of the water, the church invites the likes of him. They, in their spiritual depravity, make our priests and pastors look good. they secure the position.

    Oh dear, what a mess! Who will give answer for this?

    Not I!

  51. TruthorLie Jun 30th 2012

    The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is Satan.

    Hmmm….Father ALLOWED Satan into His very own Garden???


    What exactly is your definition of discernment?
    What is Father’s definition of discernment?

    For it sounds to me that Father has chosen only a few people to give His discernment. And those few must go around the world and take on the role of the Holy Spirit and convict; persuade; and turn men’s hearts to God.
    And don’t forget….His role is also to add to His church!

    Usurping the role of the Holy Spirit is a very dangerous place to put yourself in.
    Just because a person is indwelt with the Holy Spirit does not mean that the person is HOLY.

  52. Martin Jun 30th 2012

    Truth or Lie, would you open out this one, please, could be interesting.

  53. Bruce Skelton Jun 30th 2012

    “I feel I must sound an alarm as well. As much as I want to see
    healing miracles restored to the church today, I´m not willing to
    fling open the door to deception. The devil can fake miracles, and
    if we don´t apply discernment in this vulnerable hour, impostors
    will sneak into the church and unleash their doctrines-with
    deadly results. Please don´t be duped by counterfeits.”

    I will say AMEN to that, although it would be great to see healing and miracles restored to the church today, and I pray for this to happen. But I see only deception predicted by the Word of God, and it will increase as the end draws near. I don’t think the Word of God is a false prophet!

    2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

    2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

    Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

    2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    According to the Word of God things are going to get worse and worse.

    In Christ,

  54. Randorf Jun 30th 2012

    If financial impropriety is the criteria to label this man as a charlatan and you feel you need to call him out to expose him it would serve you well to expand that list and name those who frequent TBN, Daystar and the like who are also guilty of the same practices. I don’t believe it is wrong to expose that which is false, but guard yourself that you don’t choose to criticize one “false teacher” and ignore those who are popular, or by walking in fear of backlash it keeps the truth from being exposed.

  55. Teshuva….you stated: Claudia,
    Since God makes it to rain on the just and the unjust, and is not a respecter of persons, I have a hard time believing that He would take a healing away, especially since Yeshua said it was our faith that made us whole.

    I agree with you 100%…if God gives a healing it will last…unless you continue to abuse your body and bring the illness back. I was not saying that God took the healing away. I was saying that many healings are faked by humans, and the fakers came up with that saying regarding taking the healing away to explain why the person was seen later (after 20 days) NOT still healed. The healing never happened in the first place, and the fakers came up with that phrase that Truthorlie posted about an impartation won’t last beyond 20 days if the person isn’t walking with God…..in order to cover for the faked, or hysteric healings that didn’t last….which were not from God in the first place.

    God does not set time schedules such as “20 days”….that is totally of MAN!

  56. TruthorLie Jun 30th 2012

    Some are very obsessed with the statement about impartations.

    Have you not known or seen people running from one “move of God” to another?

    Why do you think they do that? Because they desire to have the Presence of God IMPARTED to them in whatever form they can get it. Singing; Music; Laying on of hands; etc.

    These are people that do not have access to the Presence of God for themselves. They must chase around from church to church; place to place to find His Presence.

    Just as the people chased after Jesus to experience the Presence of God in Jesus.

    Once a person’s spirit is regenerated at their New Birth, they have access to the Presence of God at any time…..UNLESS they allow unbelief or sin to quench and grieve the Holy Spirit within them……then access is BLOCKED until that person REPENTS AND is delivered from UNBELIEF.

  57. Why would God give us the below Word….if we were not to speak out regarding what we see? Too many christians think they are christians, but are following men, because the men are saying what they want to hear. It is not from a point of “bitterness” or “frustration” to point these things out…but the truest form of love….a love that does not seek popularity….but the welfare of the one being spoken to.

    Ezekiel 33:2-6 says, “When I bring a sword upon a land, if the
    people…set him for their WATCHMAN…If when he seeth the sword
    come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul. But if the WATCHMAN SEE THE SWORD COME, AND BLOW NOT THE TRUMPET, AND THE PEOPLE BE NOT WARNED; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the WATCHMAN’S hand.”

    Simon…you are confusing the way the modern world raises kids nowadays…giving them way too much freedom to make their mistakes….instead of giving them a loving structure and discipline, requiring responsibility and respect in all their actions….before they are allowed freedom…as was the way under God’s household. The very way you speak is why satan can turn these children to his ways. Christ did not come into His own until he reached the age of 30. Now we let children vote at 18…..and they are in no way mature enough to take upon themselves that responsibility….they at that age are way to easily led by every undisciplined whim that enters their immature minds.

    I would rather risk unpopularity than stand guilty in front of God for not speaking out to the best of my ability while here on earth to show my disproval, so that I don’t inherit their judgement from God. (Romans 1: 28-32)

    We are doing no one a “kindness” by keeping quiet if we see sheep being fed the poison of deception….by shepards who do not love them but are sucking their blood like covetous, untrustworthy, sexually immoral, deceitful, proud, malicious, unrighteous, evil minded vampires.

    ROMANS 1: 28 -32
    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; Being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

    When we retain the World in our knowledge….there is not much room for God within the same container…He gets pushed aside.

  58. Your understanding of my statement and your resulting reasoning is faulty, Truthorlie. I was not judging a man, but a church leader who claims to have given his all to God, by the size of the house that he retains for his own pleasure….when a more modest house and style of living could allow more to be given to the poor that he is claiming to love. It was clearly stated and the fact that you find umbridge to this statement as a person of God mystifies me.

    Solomon, David were kings. If Billy Graham owned a mansion…I fault him for it….or rather I would admire him much more if he lived in a cottage. God’s instructions were to build things for His Glory…not the glory of any man…you have that wrong. You try to hard to justify something which I am unaware of and really don’t need to know. Your walk is yours. I can tell that I live in a totally different world than you.

    Do not include me in your foolish comparisons….I do not seek a mansion in heaven, the temple of my body is enough for me…..nor do I buy CD’s and such christian materials…the Bible and the Holy Spirit are enough for me. I do not make car payments…and I have worn the same clothes for years..not needing to impress anyone with my appearance. I pay little for food as we raise most of our own food…through our diligent work as God intended for man.

    You over generalize….in that all economys have to be compared with the value of the means of exchange within their own country….and the cost of living within that country….basic economics….I am sure you must be aware of that.

    I apologize if my statements have hit a nerve and cause you upset.

    As for impartation….nothing of man can impart the presence of God…man is not worthy. That is the great error of the churches of man…..and the arrogance of man that he believes that this impartation must come from man. That you appear to believe that is the antithesis of “humble”.

    God imparts Himself to those who remain quiet and still and do not run around like a rabbit. It is the insecurity and lack of trust by man that causes him to chase after God by chasing man.

  59. Would it be correct to state that any preacher who was faking the power of God, was in fact a non-believer? If one needs to fake a Godly act, than the one doing the faking must not be acting with belief….and is in fact a non-believer. Here is what God says about the non-believer in conjunction with our lives.

    2nd Corinthians 6: 14-18=Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

  60. chas351 Jun 30th 2012

    i dont know this person,, but i can say if someone deny’s Jesus then that is the antichrist spirit,,, if this person is doing miracles in Jesus Name then God is faithful to His Word

  61. Some years ago the churches in UK (moved by the images of the orphans being tied to rusty old beds, lying in their own filth and being neglected) began to organise themselves in order to take aid and materials into Romania. They sought out church leaders there with whom they could work. Sadly many of these “Pastors” were corrupt helping themselves to the aid and enriching themselves at the expense of the poor.

    It is, therefore, of no surprise that Romanian churches are falling prey to men like Chris Olakhiyome. Here in UK we often come across members of his church who can be seen distributing his booklet “Rapsody of Realities.” Sometimes they issue invitations to “Miracle Meetings.” but never do we hear them preach the Gospel. I had a conversation with a lady who was shocked that I didn’t believe in “Prosperity Gospel”. I asked her why they didn’t preach the Gospel and she pointed out that the booklet “Has a prayer for Salvation at the end.” When I asked her where such a prayer was found in the Bible she became very angry and ran to call one of her leaders over.

    I repeated that I didn’t believe in Prosperity Gospel and he responded, “So, then, you believe in the Gospel of Poverty”! I said, “No! I believe in the Gospel of CONTENTMENT!” as the scripture states “Be content in what ever state you find yourself in!”

    We rebuked these leaders for their deceit and hypocrisy! As it is written:

    “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.” (1Timothy 5:20)

    You may quote 1 Timothy 5:1 but as these men are NOT my elders this does not apply!

    Too many people have the idea that discernment is some sort of “Sixth Sense”. It is NOT, discernment comes via knowledge of the truth:

    “But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
    (Hebrews 5:14)

    I used to count money for a living. Millions of pounds used to pass through my hands. Pretty soon I became adept at spotting counterfeit money. In order to become adept at spotting counterfeit teaching we need to handle true teaching—SOUND doctrine as opposed to UNsound!

    This going from one “impartation” to another is what the Scripture calls being

    “tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”
    (Ephesians 4:14)

    These people are deceivers and any who put their trust in them are deceived. You may believe these people to be of God but you are deceived! Of course if you are deceived you won’t know it. Just as the unknowing person is duped into accepting counterfeit money, because the counterfeit looks like the real thing, they are convinced that it IS real!

  62. I’ve just come across an article which explains one of the main reasons believers are being duped today. If are you interested in reading it, it is called, “The Age of the Dumb Church,” and can be found at:

    God bless,

  63. Justine Jun 30th 2012

    Anyone who hasn’t already seen it should definitely watch the Channel 4 documentary ‘Nigeria’s Millionaire Preachers’. You can see it online at 4oD at


  64. Ibelieve Jun 30th 2012

    Every article has shown the terrible state of the church world in this end time. I cannot see from reading these why anyone would encourage all of us to attach ourselves to these organizations.

    This is one of the main reasons I have not been able to find a church in our area. Most who profess to know Christ follow a lot of the ministries that have been mentioned on this board.

    I visited a few churches and thought I would remain silent and look the other way, so I could quote “be in fellowship with someone”, but I have found there is so much going on contrary to scriptures that how could anyone set and act like everything is okay.

    The word heresy is mentioned several times in the NT.

    Here is a few uses of the word:

    Tit 3:10 After the first and second warning, reject a man of heresy,
    Tit 3:11 knowing that he who is such has been perverted, and sins, being self-condemned.

    “heretic” in the Greek is:

    a schismatic. (“heretic” is the Greek word itself.): – heretic [the Greekord itself].

    Other places this word is used:
    heretic: 1Co_11:19; Gal_5:20; 2Pe_2:1

    I do not see how someone in another article stated that the word heresy is “not found in the Bible”.

    I realize some can be in error and its not considered heresy. But I see people at times on this board saying something is not in the Bible when it is.

    We should never assume something just because someone is making a statement on this board about it, that it is “truth”.

    With everything that has been said the last several months I do not see how anyone can join in with these groups that call themselves christian just for the sake of belonging in a fellowship.

    I want to be with believers but I am not interested in a religious social club with all the pomp and fanfare.

    As many have stated in these comments above the church world opens their arms and pulpits to these type of ministries. Most setting in the pews have not a clue what is going on in these ministries.

    In conclusion if a man is stating things that are wrong with these various church views or articles, I feel they are warning the body of Christ, meaning, true believers so they will be aware of what is taking place and they in turn can take heed.

    We are only seeing the tip of the iceberg here, as there is a much deeper spiritual problem going on behind the scenes in the church world as a whole.

  65. SeattleVic Jun 30th 2012

    @ sharon Miracles are not a testament that a person is a child of God. . Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 7:22-23? People who performed miracles will come to Jesus and He will say, “Depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Iniquity means lawlessness. Apparently, Jesus is sending people away because they didn’t live according to God’s law. This makes sense, since Jesus didn’t come primarily to perform miracles or send sinners to Heaven. Jesus’ primary purpose was to destroy the power of sin and bring us into right standing with God. The way to know who is a true child of God is that person is repentant towards God, preaches repentance, and lives a life of righteousness. We know someone is a child of God because that person has the Holy Spirit of God. How can someone have the Holy Spirit of God and not desire after holiness? It’s impossible. Also, if Jesus said that it’s super hard for a rich man to get into Heaven, then why would anyone make an excuse for those living with the world’s riches. We should be warning them that Jesus warned about that. So these people think they are so Godly that they will be able to overcome the difficulty that Jesus warned rich men of? See, looking like a Christian is of this world. Having the spirit of a Christian, where you eat, sleep and breathe to take glory off yourself and put it on Christ, is the true mark of a Christian. A person who is obviously living in defiance of Jesus’ warnings, who is not against bringing glory to himself, who does not show a constant fear toward God and his own sin is not a child of God. Just remember that Jesus told his disciples in Luke 10:20 not to rejoice that they had power over demons but to rejoice because their names were written in Heaven. See, Jesus didn’t come, nor does He want us focusing on, to help us walk in sign and wonders. He came so we would overcome the power of sin in our own lives and be in right standing with God.

    Here is something else to check out, from a website called InsightsOfGod. In this site, you’ll find a testimony from a man who started off as an agent of Satan and later became a child of God. Near the middle of this testimony, in the section titled “Transformed into Satan’s Agent”, he talks about the fake prayer houses that can be set up so that people will gain the power to perform miracles. Perhaps, you thought that the power of the enemy is worthless, but he is also powerful, except that he cannot touch children of God without God allowing it.
    The link is http://insightsofgod.com/emmanuel_eni.html

    1. Opening of White “Garment Churches” :
    When a man comes to us for an assistance to build a prayer house and help him performing healings etc., he would be given some conditions :
    a) He will agree to donate to us one or two souls every year.
    b) At a certain level of office in the church the person would be initiated to our society.
    c) No member would be allowed to come into the prayer house with shoes on.

    When he accepts these conditions, he would be given something like a white gravel, human bones, blood and charms, all in a native pot. He would be instructed to bury this pot with all its content in front of the church and bury the cross on its top. After the burial, only the cross should be seen. He would be advised to build a pool or keep a basin where spirits would continue to supply specail water. This water is what you hear them call “holy water.”

    Many people when disturbed by evil spirits go to these “prophets” to cast them out. The truth is, they only add more demons to them. A devil cannot cast out devil. What the prophet would do is, he will pray for the member and then give him/her a red cloth to put in his/ her house, and then would advise him/her to always pray with candles and incenses. By this act the person invites us into his/her house. Sometimes the member would be advised to bring a goat etc., for sacrifice. These sacrifices are for us to come and help cure the man. The prophet has no power to cure or heal.

    I hope this helped to open up your eyes about seeking after signs and wonders. A person isn’t saved because he walks in signs and wonders.

  66. SeattleVic Jun 30th 2012

    I forgot to mention that the testimony is of Emmanuel Eni, who lived as an agent of Satan in Nigeria. So, everything he went through happened in Nigeria. Read his whole testimony. It’s an eye-opener.

  67. dagazz Jun 30th 2012

    Thanks Wayne, I agree with the article and what is being posted. It breaks my heart that so many people attend the hype, program based churches and then find little substance to keep them interested. I wonder if the leaders realise that their entertainment just produces religious ‘worldlings’ who eventually fall away believing that God has no answers for them.

    Ashant. I suppose my point is that just pointing out errors isn’t going to fix this, but you’re right that they are to be exposed. I think something Art Katz said is relevant to this. He said, “they have no other example!’ I think that when they see the genuine kingdom of God ministries in action the ones who really want God and not just a ‘rock concert’ will reject the false churches.

  68. Traveler Jun 30th 2012

    This is the example of the pattern that we should follow.

    Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
    Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
    Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
    Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
    Mat 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
    Mat 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
    Mat 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
    Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

    Notice verse 8, What you get for free you also give for free. In the modern church environment the gifts of the spirit have been merchandised. A price has been attached, give money so you can get the blessings etc.

    Has any considered that the reason we have so much counterfeit going on is because the real has been withdrawn because of the price that has been attached.

    Now we have a whole new generation of preachers marketing their faith because that is the way they have been taught and they really do not know any better.

    The finger has to be pointed but not to destroy with a god-stick, it has to be pointed to show what is wrong and then pointed to what is right so corrections can be made.

  69. Oskar Abley Jun 30th 2012

    I fear this is only the beginning however in my own church a young lady got up and started doing guided imagery. This was followed up with understanding our identity in Christ which is to be Christ Like today fully as in Eph 4 but ignoring the sin. This being much worse than the imagery which has its roots in new age and paganism.

    I did some study and found Bethel heavy Chris Volotron preaching kingdom now and mangeling the scripture with a vengence. The new creature in us after salvation is according to Chris our “new flesh” check out Utube. Sanctification is nothing other than legalism according to this teaching. His teaching in Melbourne was regarded as immature and off the wall for most of it by a christian woman I greatly admire and his story concerning the car was was just disgusting and lude.

    Francois, I must respond to the need to be personly involved with a preacher before you discern heresy. I am sorry but if it does not line up with scripture it is wrong and the preacher should be brought into line. There is a process of care and love however if there is rebellion that is another matter.

    I have seen too much of this soft mamby pamby approach for those who prefer to worship their pastor than worship the Lord and consume his word.

    Recently this young person who preached in our church stated that we are not to be paupers but royal and used the scripture that states in Proverbs with words to the affect Three things are bad and four are appalling. The second from memory was the pauper, but this was taken perfectly out of context in fact in its exact opposite meaning, to be a good thing.

    The guided imagery was denounced however the manifest sons of God teaching that states that the promises in Danial 7:26 are available now even though in 25 we have the term “times time and half a time” prior to the blessing. Revelation, Daniels sister book speaks of times time and half a time concerning the time of the antichrist. If this is so v26 relates in its fullness to the time after Christs return not what happened at the cross.

    Our leaders in the church are currenly weighing Bethel teaching concerning our identity according to Bill Johnston and Chris Volotron. The fact that it is being weighed gives me great encouragement. Seeing the truth past the gloss is a difficult process if you ignore the word and embrace Francios position. Many loved ones are caught up in this teaching which makes it extremely difficult to say they are caught up in a cult or heresy because we dont wont to believe it. We must not bury our heads in the sand because we do not like being in the fight or having to accept things we would rather not.

    In short this teaching says we are expected to have the blessings and power and lifestyle of that which is promised after Christs return Now today. well I don’t measure up to that and I don’t think anyone does. This insanity that says that the new man is the new flesh although it sins does not really count and we are just being judgmentall if we think it does. Perfect but not sanctified in fact we must get rid of sanctification because it makes people feel bad about their sin????

    Like others have stated this is obviously wrong. I loved Teds view point. This anti sanctification leads to too much liscentiousness. This is supported by teaching this is focused on increasing personal wealth rather than lost souls into the kingdom. “give me your money and God will make you rich”

    I do understand that most will not accept Francios point of view however based on Francios criteria if the antichrist turned up unless I actually met him then we could not warn of his teachings no matter how bad they were.

    Pity Francios has not read Pauls teachings and instructions on what we are to do if people bring “another gospel”. The word of God must be our yard stick not the fairy floss of glip mouthed preachers that have a focus on us not being paupers and training us that the way to become rich kings is to fill the pastors coffers.

    Having said that ministry of a prophet is not widely supported because he says what needs to be said and may I add,or what a prophetess needs to say so support Andrew and his ministry. I am not saying we should not support ministry.

    A final word we are much closer to the end than i would have thought some time ago, I have heard a little while ago that the bride is to prepare herself in the secret chamber, that time is now and i am sure that many of you have already been hearing this be it loud or gentle for some time.

    I pray we come afresh to the cross to be cleansed and renewed. Repentance is a process not an event and so let us pray for each other that we build with a trowel in one hand a spear in the other and working side by side knowing the time is short.

    God Bless you brother Oskar

  70. IBelieve…you stated, “I do not see how someone in another article stated that the word heresy is “not found in the Bible”.

    As I explained in my earlier post I did a word search, using the word “heresy” in an online Bible KJV….


    …..because I wanted to see what the Bible said about that subject….I wanted to learn more. The search came up with the answer…”no results”. Obviously we know what heretic means…and we know that God does not approve of those who do not follow His Word and standards…..as an earlier post of mine so stated by quoting scripture 2nd Corinthians, Chapter 6. I was not stating that the subject was not in the Bible…but that particular word that I was using in my search…and than I went on to explain that our prayers, and joining with others in prayer should not be discouraged by our judgements of them…by our application of labels upon them….because God is so CAPABLE of sorting the prayers. We should never discourage prayers…because they can cause repentence and they can open doors through which God can affect the one praying.

    Please do not give my words more meaning and importance than they contained within the context of the entire post. That is being rather like a politician.

  71. Pastor Wayne…..thank you so much for refering to the article: The Age Of The Dumb Church.


    I so agree with this article I came accross…..DUMBNESS….it is rapant everywhere…within our voters, our government, our lifestyle…our churches. Life is so much easier if one remains dumb….and does not seek knowledge and understandings, but remains on the superficial surface of things.

    The article started out with an explanation of a very sad situation:
    “I have a friend who’s an experienced pastor, teacher, and Christian apologist. He’s very well educated, articulate, teaches in a way that hits the mark, and has a passion particularly for grounding young people in the faith during their high school and early college years.

    Currently, he’s employed with Youth for Christ and a while back he felt a burden to try and help churches in our area do what he does best, which is equip youth to defend the Christian faith in the world and know what/why they believe.

    Because he’s developed a number of curriculums to use for such situations, he sent a letter to all the churches in our metropolitan area (which is quite a lot) explaining what he does, and offered to come to their church free of charge and conduct Christian apologetic training for their youth.

    How many churches took him up on his offer?

    Zero. None. Zilch.”

    How very, very, sad!

  72. Peter H Jun 30th 2012

    Ministers need to warn the Body of Christ what is going on. They need to share the unadulterated Word of God both inside and outside of church.
    With the comments said about
    Revelation TV, the God Channel,the large gatherings taking place with so called christian celebrities taking stage, et al, the FALSE REVIVAL is taking shape before everyone. It contains false teachers and prophets (the blind) leading the blind.
    We have been warned time and time again but who are taking heed?
    I googled Revelation TV on the internet to see what is going on. They have moved to Spain with their operations under the use of a Spanish Broadcasting Licence (they do not qualfy for renewing the British licence they had).
    This article is revealing because they remain in the UK doing their own thing which was originally kept secret from the public domain. This link should be looked at
    As well as with the God Channel, TBN, Inspiriation TV, DayStar TV
    all showing WoF influence, et al, what is going on in DECEPTION coming from within speaks for itself.

  73. Colin Jul 1st 2012

    Could’nt find the links which were mentioned in one comment, so I googled RTV who have taken on board the WoF woman preacher called Joyce Meyer
    Her same programmes are shown on the God Channel, DayStar TV and other tv stations.
    This is what the God Channel is braodcasting on behalf of the false revival which is on tour in the USA now heading towards Washington.
    Look who is behind this!
    If christians are seeking false teachings, listening to false prophecies and seeking counterfeit signs and wonders, then so be it.
    Money pays for such services and money given by gullible christians pays for their mansions, businesses and in building their empires.
    Take heed and be warned!!!!!!!
    Noticed too that Sid Roth, well know for his false prophecies, dominates so called christian tv channels.

  74. Claudia, would you ask your friend apologist to post his address or suggest a way I can contact him. I am interested in his ministry.
    Thanks – Ian

  75. Ibelieve Jul 1st 2012

    Here is your quote:

    Of interest a dictionary defines “heretic” as: Heretic: a holder or adherent of an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching; somebody whose opinions, beliefs, or theories in any field are considered by others in that field to be extremely unconventional or unorthodox.

    Having read that I decided to see what the Bible said about that particular label. Guess what? I went to the HTML Bible Word Search on the internet and searched in all the versions of the Bible.


    None of them have that word. I would avoid it and stick to the details of their behavior.

    I would love it if anyone on this forum would give me some scripture where this heretic subject is being discussed so I could learn more………………………

    You asked for scriptures concerning this subject in the Bible. I gave several scriptures where heretics, heresies are mentioned. The scriptures are Titus 3:10, I Cors. 11:19, Gals. 5:20, and II Peter 2:1.

  76. Ian, I was quoting a section of the article that Pastor Wayne suggested. The person who wrote the article is the one who had the friend apologist.

    The article is at the following site:


    Perhaps you can find out who it is by going there.

  77. IBelieve; I am aware of my post that you so kindly reposted and it says what I tried to explain to you, and it seems you still don’t understand what I was trying to explain. Thank you, yes…I got some of the scriptures from your first post above…the one that I was originally responding to where you had misunderstood my post on the word heretic or heresy under a differenct discussion topic.

    I would still avoid that word and stick to the “DETAILS” of one’s behavior…because it is in the details that things are discussed in the Bible. I don’t like to apply labels that can be misunderstood depending on the readers knowledge….or experience.

  78. Averyl Jul 1st 2012

    Anthony Donaghey – Having ploughed through your long posting I must say it was worth reading & I admire your honesty. I have thought much the same over the years, finding consolation by such things as reading books by Richard Wurmbrandt & reminding myself of scripts such as Job’s “Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him”.
    God bless you brother!

  79. Anthony Donaghey Jul 1st 2012

    Thank you Averyl God bless you too

  80. Anthony Donaghey…your post was long and well packed with examples and good advise.

    I boil it all down to the very basics…..this wordly life is not our real life….it is temporary…..and the eternal life is forever…and for sure….all of God’s promises are fullfilled there….for those who endure to the end.

    If 1,000 years of man is one day to God, than 41 years and 8 months are 60 minutes in God’s time. If one lived to be 82 years old….only 2 hours would have passed in God’s time. Not long to wait for one of His promises! I did a TIME PASSING CHART when I was pondering on the difference in our time zones.


    If creation took 6,000 years of man, and another 1,000 years where God went and rested, and man continued upon the earth,…… than Noah was saved from the house cleaning that God did when He came back from His rest. Than the Old Testament unfolded for another 4,000 or 5,000 years, (this could be pinpointed exactly if one wanted to know) and Than Christ gave us the Truth and Way via His sacrifice, and another 2,000 years more or less have passed to get us up to today…..for a grand total of almost 2 weeks in God’s time. God has done a tremendous work within these 13 -14 days, thereabouts. Soon we will enter the last ONE DAY left before He wraps up His restoration process at the end of it (Mellennium).

    Man is very much like children of this day and age….I WANT IT NOW! And when what they want is not materilized in their time zone, they find their faith wavering…because there faith was based on what they could get out of it….instead of a deep and lasting falling in love with Who God is and His Nature….having nothing to do with their own personal gain. We would all be better off if we explored God’s Nature and spent less time on figuring out how we can capitalize on scriptures for our gain. The Father wants His children to be like Him….it is the greatest compliment a Father can have from His children….to look over at them and see them struggling to be like their Father…not because they want their allowance….but because they love Him…truly love Him and respect Him.

    The Father has set everything in place that will fullfill all His promises and restore our bodies to be like Jesus Christ’s.

  81. Anthony Donaghey Jul 1st 2012

    Thank You Claudia God Bless you.

  82. IBelieve; Thank you again for the scripture references. I wanted to see if the Bible defined Heretic or Heresies. The scripture you gave me…..2nd Peter 2:1 came the closest to defining heresy. See below.

    II Peter 2:1.But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    From the above scripture I take it that a “heresy” is a very serious thing…not a minor difference, or a misunderstanding of scripture…but difference as great as denying the Lord….as being the most serious.

    I would gather also that if Jesus taught that He was the only Way to Eternal Life…than stating that there was another way would be heresy. As would stating that Jesus was not the Son of God, and He was not Define.

  83. Ibelieve Jul 1st 2012

    Claudia I agree here with what you shared. I had always heard that if a man is 95% right about the Bible but held to 5% heresy that they would not enter Heaven because of their doctrines. Like “Oneness for an example”.

    I think doctrinal error is quite different then heresy. Concerning the article above I do not know when a man can actually be called a heretic. I always thought it is when they tamper with the doctrine of the Godhead that being a heretic was implied. The scripture in II Peter says; “they deny the Lord that bought them”.

    Galatians 5:18-24

    18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Heresy here is described as a work of the flesh.

    Lord Bless,

  84. Liston Jul 1st 2012

    I have been watching his TV broadcasts for some time now and have retained one where he speaks quickly in a strange tongue apparently to satan. It is done so quickly none in the audience realises it.
    In the same show he salutes with his fist clearly demonstrating the devils salute.with the devils head and two horns. His sermons all teach in a subtle way that he has a special power of Christ within him which he is able to impart to the faithful He is the literal modern personification of Christ.
    He is promoting a dangerous cult church.

  85. Brother John Jul 1st 2012

    May it be suggested that before christians get hooked onto the likes of Mike Murdoch who has a finger in many pies and showing his presence on christian tv stations, check out who he is associated with and the reasons why. Benny Hinn. Morris Cerullo, Reinhard Bonnke, and John Hagee are just a few. For they like hugging one another and embracing their ministries on stage at rallies and conferences.
    Just look at this manufactured and staged managed revival gathering at Wembley Stadium in London that has been organised. It cost £10.00 for a ticket.
    Look at the artists who have been invited. They have inks with WoF, restorationism, name and claim it, etc.
    See also the team and notice names such as Gerald Coates who has embraced restorationism and the TB experience.
    Moriel Ministries warned about the ecumenical set up of the Global Day of Prayer in 2006
    The leaders behind it have given prophetic utterances about God moving using the Global Day of Prayer but none of it has been fulfilled. And Why? It is man made for the emerging church.
    There is a false revival being manufactured in Ireland under the umbrella of ecumenicalism. See this link
    What has been already shared, the christian church has been taken over for all sorts of purposes by false teachers and prophets and is going to get worse.
    I thank Almighty God for the Body of Christ who is the Bride awaiting the Bridegroom.
    Come Lord Jesus!

  86. ValleyAnt Jul 1st 2012

    So much good to respond in these comments, but I don’t want to write a book. As a Nigerian now in the States, I know enough about general Nigerian Christianity to speak on it without bias. Nigerian Christianity is overall a complete mess, and repentance is without a doubt became a requirement many, many years ago. While I was homeless, I once went to a Nigerian church hoping to seek help from ‘brothers’. I wasn’t there up to five minutes before I perceived that in my own utter lack, I still had more to offer them than they did me. I left the service without seeking anything. I don’t think discernment is some sort of ‘mystical power’ that only the super spiritual have; like the conscience, it is resident in all people but is sanctified (and multiplied according to the faith and practice of it one has or/and the Grace God gives them) by the Holy Spirit in the lives of those who are born again. It is possible for a person to operate in gifts from God and from satan almost simultaneously; however, as Jesus told the people regarding the Pharisees, when it comes to ‘flashy preachers’, one is to do what they say that is according to the Word but not to do what they do (ie. live as they live). Different types of false gospels appeal to different types of people; in Nigeria (and African nations), the ‘prosperity and miracle gospels’ have power with the people because of their culture. Regarding false gospels, it is in each nation ‘to each his idol.’

    I was recently attending two churches which the Lord has moved me on from. I experienced the Lord in one church, but it wasn’t because He approved of the church (or was there) but because “He gladly meets those who do righteousness.” Amen. This article focuses on one false ministry. We should remember that there are many, and I believe that it would be magnificent if Charisma would in the same fashion, and without the fear of man, also indicate ministries in the States which are known and adored but which are false. Integrity and truth go a very long way with God and intimacy with Him, and God desires truth (oneness, solidarity, unity, wholeness, full and whole integrity) in the inward parts (Ps. 51:6). Amen.

  87. Andrew Jul 1st 2012

    Very true that Charisma should do an equal expose on the USA “Prosperity” preachers, my friend. But in fairness, they have been a great deal better in recent years in publishing unflattering articles on Paula White, Creflo Dollar, etc. But still a long way to go.

    There needs to be a literal “clean-out” of those kinds of ministries in the USA. God-willing, it will gradually happen more and more.

    Bless you!


  88. Andrew Jul 1st 2012

    A respected friend of ours in Australia agreed with the warnings about “Pastor Chris” in the above article – but strongly disagreed with the warnings about TB Joshua. I thought it might be good to publish her thoughts here-

    “Hi Andrew,
    I agree totally about Chris Oyakhilome…
    But in regards to T B Joshua, I do not agree with Lee Grady, since my previous pastor from Australia, who cares a lot about holiness, visited TB Joshua’s church in person together with other pastors from Australia and
    also Bill Subritzky from NZ and Bill Subritzky challenged Lee Grady on his
    assumptions that T B Joshua is not of the Spirit of God and there was no response back, since Lee Grady was not there himself, he based his opinion
    on what other local pastors said about T B Joshua,when he wrote about him in the past.

    As you well know, the Nigerian pastors live it up more than the
    Westerners through the offerings of the poor. I have heard myself T B Joshua
    challenging the local pastors to help the poor, help them find work and sustain them till they find some work, not to just take from the poor. He
    himself does this on mass, and I know at least in the recent past, he only
    lived in a 2 bedroom apartment with his wife and children and used a bus to
    go to church, even though he could have spend a lot on himself. He rebuked
    the congregation for sending him gifts for his birthday instead of
    giving him money to buy rice for the poor. Things need to be checked before
    written from such a newsletter like Charisma. Here is the comment I wrote back to Lee Grady as response to this article:

    Dear brother Grady,
    I would like to challenge one assumption you have made that T B Joshua is an occult healer. Did you go there to check things for yourself? A pastor
    from Brisbane Australia has been there for a week with other pastors and they have seen not just the miracles- lots every day – but also the fruit
    of repentance and love. One of the pastors took his daugther who had an incurable stomach disease – declared by the Australian doctors – and she was totally healed. The pastor’s wife was also healed. I know that many
    Nigerian pastors don’t like him because he preaches against the
    luxury/prosperity doctrine they are leaving by, while himself uses the money to feed the poor, he shows them off. The pastors there live on like
    kings on the church donations.See the prophecy page on his website and tell
    me if you know a more accurate prophet in the world. See his emmanuel.tv to
    see for yourself and take a trip to speak with the man in person and see the church for yourself.

    Hope it helps clarify things a little bit, I want the truth to prevail.

    Blessings. Marilena.”

  89. Ibelieve Jul 1st 2012

    I am very surprised at the mention of Reinhart Bonnke. I thought this man was preaching the gospel to the lost in Africa, with many healings and people coming to the Lord.

    I am surprised he is being named with the group of ministers above.

    Are you sure about this man?

    In Him,

  90. I understand from what Jesus said about His meat, that the “milk”is the reading of the Word whilst the “meat” is the DOING of it!
    I hold no truck with “meaty preaching” as opposed to “milky preaching” All preaching is the milk of the Word the meat is when we obey, and become a doer and not just a forgetful hearer!

    As for “not judging” we a told to judge righteous judgement!
    We should test all things BY HIS WORD. Isaiah said “To the law (OT) and to the testimony (NT): if they speak not according to “this word”, it is because there is no light in them”. Very simple, therein lays the answer to “discernment”!
    ” Preach the word…….for … they shall heap to themselves teachers …. having itching ears.. …tell us some thing we are “nice and comfortable with”. (in our still unrighteous state) …. they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables (unfounded tales)”
    Why do we marvel at this present day evil when He warned us it would come? Instead it is just more conformation that we know the Truth , It has set us free, and the end is near! There is nothing we can do to stop it, but we may as Moses, in the presence of the false magicians, press on with The Truth. He is quite capable of (and in fact is) confirming the Word for those who are so doing.

    Pr Michael

  91. I think the question which we need to ask ourselves is whether these ones which are being discussed know the Lord or whether they do not…

    When we see these “outward”, “obvious”, aberrancies from what is biblical Christianity we really have to ask ourselves whether these ones know the Lord at all…

    To be honest I’m not one who goes on “witch-hunts” looking to find the “evil people” and then “bring them to justice” but if the Lord alerts me – me personally – of someone or some ministry or whatever then I make it my point to avoid that person or that ministry or whatever as He leads me…

    I’m just speaking from personal experience – each one has their own call from the Lord…

    I just want to know about the ones who are seeking the Lord with all their hearts and with all their souls and with all their strengths and with all their minds…

    I just want to know about these ones and to “hang out” with them… :-)


    Overcome evil with good…

    O Lord, make us those ones who are shining so brightly for You that all who come across us know that they have seen You in us…

    Let them see the “real deal” in us…

    The “genuine article” – in fact, let them see The Genuine Article – You Yourself in us – and let them be amazed by how Great and Almighty and All-powerful You are…

    We limit You so much – may it not be anymore – I limit You so much – may it not be anymore – do through us what You did through Your Apostles in the book of Acts and let this world see again biblical Christianity “lived” by those who say they know You…

    Then the world will have something to compare what – on the whole – we see today as “the church” (which may not be “the genuine article”) with what the Church – the Church of the Living God – is meant to be…

    Let it begin with each of us O Lord (let it begin with me Lord, I need this) – Thank You Jesus – Thank You Jesus that You will do this – Thank You Father that You delight to hear and answer prayer which is made in accordance with Your will…

    This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him. (1 John 5:14-15 NASB)

    For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. (1 Thessalonians 4:3-7 NASB)

    Thank You Lord that it is Your will that we are sanctified – that we are conformed to the Image of Your Son Jesus Christ – that we have been predestined to be conformed into the Image of Your Son Jesus Christ – and that You honour every prayer which we pray under the anointing of the Holy Spirit to bring this into reality…

    Fill me Father with the Anointing of Jesus Christ – remove myself from me Father (my old self) and let Jesus live through me (let Him make a complete and continual end of me every day for the rest of my life and let Him live through me – abstaining me from all manner of evil and filling me with all manner of righteousness in my heart which delights His Heart)…

    As we are sanctified, more and more and more – You can fill us with Your Holy Spirit more and more and more and we can do the works of Jesus more and more and more and exhibit the Character of Jesus more and more and more…

    This is what I want…

    Let me raise up a standard and let us all raise up a standard of what true Holiness is – the Likeness of Jesus Christ expressed in our earthly bodies as He takes over more and more and more and we become focused on Him more and more and more and the light that shines from us more and more and more is His Light (and not some counterfeit “light” which has it source with the enemy of our souls – the devil himself – or with any desires to make ourselves – our fallen human selves – great in any way, shape or form)…

    Hallelujah Lord, Thank You Jesus, Thank You Lord, Thank You Father…

    Thank You Holy Spirit that You make us holy and that we glorify You as You make us holy and we shine for You in the midst of the darkness of this world – as lights for You – let the Light of Your Presence shine brightly through us all who know You and let there be Light in the world which You created as You shine Your Presence into the realities of more and more and more people in their every day situations as they come across us who have been “shined on” by You…

    Let them see our happiness, let them see our joy, let them see our peace and let them want to know why in the Mighty Name of Jesus – let them want to know why…

    Raise up the standard Lord – the standard in Your People – in us – that we might Know You in the Mighty Name of Jesus and display You to the world in Jesus Name…

    Thank You Lord,

    This is Your Desire, this is Your Prayer, this is Your will, we are standing in Your Way, O I am so sorry for standing in Your way, make an end of me Father and let Your will be done through me – no excuses – let Your will be done through me and through us all – let us not, let me not, limit You anymore – You are standing ready – are we ready?

    Make us ready Lord…

    Thank You Jesus…

    Hallelujah – Praise the Lord…


  92. james Jul 1st 2012

    Andrew that Lady is telling you the Fact on the issue of T.b Joshua . He is one of the unique type of practical example of Love and Christlikeness we have in Africa. Right now the Lord have raise five others ministers who are youth who do the exact works of preaching and miracles the Lord perform in him . It is no longer him alone in that organization they are now six. One of the most wonderful testimony I love seeing there is how through the gift of thhe holy spirit thousands of broken marriages are restore. Youths are deliver from youthful vice like prostitution, internet pornography , the poor are over care about and many others testimony. We should know the enemy does work in people hearts , it is dangerous to conclude things by what we hear from people even Christians. Glad to see you where careful on this issue. Below are some you tube links , there are thousands of such testimonies.


  93. Friends,

    A sober thought about this…

    I notice in Matt 12:24 Jesus is accused of ministering in a false spirit.

    He responds… He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

    This is a very similar response that Jesus made to the disciples who complained that others (not the disciples) were casting out demons in His name.(Mark 9)

    Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man who shall do a mighty work in my name, and be able quickly to speak evil of me – For he who is not against us is for us.

    I see few applying these principles to contemporary situations.

    Further Jesus issues a supreme warning – blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

    Attributing God’s work to Satan will not be forgiven – either in this age or in the age to come (Matt 12:32)

    For this reason I would be very careful leaning on the ‘discernment’ of modern church leaders when your own eternal life is at stake.

    Take the matter to Jesus if you must ‘judge’ otherwise leave the judgement to others who will bear the consequence of their judgments.

    Remember the similar warning given in 1 Cor 11:29…

    For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. (have died) 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

    My message then is to consider the matter very seriously, do not be quick to judge another mans ministry.

    Sure some are called to speak out against false prophets and teachers, but these are few and there is great danger in climbing on the bandwagon without His anointed word. If you get it wrong, the consequences could be eternal.

    There are ‘big names’ who disagree about the spirit of some prominent ‘ministers’

    I love you all and I intend this word to be a call to caution.


    Carl Emerson.

  94. Kevin Jul 1st 2012

    Mat 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
    Mat 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
    Mat 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
    Mat 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
    Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
    Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
    Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
    Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
    Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
    Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
    Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
    Mat 7:24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
    Mat 7:25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.
    Mat 7:26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
    Mat 7:27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

  95. Kevin Jul 1st 2012

    2Co 11:1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me!
    2Co 11:2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.
    2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
    2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
    2Co 11:5 Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.
    2Co 11:6 Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not so in knowledge; indeed, in every way we have made this plain to you in all things.
    2Co 11:7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached God’s gospel to you free of charge?
    2Co 11:8 I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you.
    2Co 11:9 And when I was with you and was in need, I did not burden anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied my need. So I refrained and will refrain from burdening you in any way.
    2Co 11:10 As the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be silenced in the regions of Achaia.
    2Co 11:11 And why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!
    2Co 11:12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do.
    2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

  96. Traveler Jul 1st 2012


    From the same as G140; a schismatic. (“heretic” is the Greek word itself.): – heretic [the Greek word itself].

    Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
    Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
    Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

  97. Kevin Jul 1st 2012

    The words spoken in the verses above are from Lord Jesus Christ and Paul.

    We all still need to heed their words today , and “judge” the fruit, for this is how we tell the ones who serve Lord Jesus Christ from the ones who come in His name serving satan.

  98. Andrew Jul 1st 2012

    I have been to Nigeria on numerous occasions, but have not checked out TB Joshua for myself. However I have very Spirit-filled and sound ministry colleagues who live there – who do not like TB Joshua’s ministry in any way – and totally question the source of his “miracles”. These guys are not “Prosperity” types and they are very discerning in the area of deliverance and false spirits. When they were so adamant against TB Joshua I listened. But that does not mean I have made up my mind.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  99. Justine Jul 1st 2012

    To Peter H – with regard to your comments about Rev (Revelation) TV – the reason they moved to Spain and got a Spanish license is so they could tell viewers the truth. When they had a UK license they were repeatedly complained about to OFCOM (Regulator for UK Communictions Industries) for saying that homeosexuality is a sin and abortion is murder – to do so is classed as a ‘hate crime’ in Britain. They were constantly under threat of losing their UK license so they made the decision to get a Spanish license where there are no such restrictions and they are free to preach the truth of God without fear of being closed down and prosecuted. They do some of their programmes from the UK but their main studio is in Spain so they can have a Spanish license. So it was for a good reason – not evil.

  100. ValleyAnt Jul 1st 2012

    Andrew Strom, yes, we have a long way to go in indicating those who say they are true and are not; but thank God for any progress. Furthermore, the Lord’s concern isn’t only for prosperity preachers but for those who appear as true ministers (or true BRETHREN) but are not; this group holds many different types of ministers and brethren, not just prosperity preachers.

    Concerning what Marilena wrote, my reply is that the enemy has many workers in Christian churches who are wolves but appear as Sheep. There are Vatican-sent and satan-sent and Mason/secret society-sent wolves who pose as ministers of God in Christian churches and who know how to do outwardly ‘what is good’ but whose end will be ‘according to their works’ (i.e. according to their hearts which is the “fruit” Jesus spoke of and from which spring the issues of life for those who know what to look for or how to look). I knew a Nigerian who was a Rosicrucian-Mason and a luciferian (satanist) who is a respected professor and also a pastor and is known as a ‘do-gooder’. I have learned that people who are luciferians, satanists, and involved in high organized crime tend to appear as ‘angels of light’ to society, because there is no better way to hide who they really are. A Christian who gives to the poor or has all knowledge or has faith for miracles but has no Love (is not walking in Christ) is false and is not who he appears to be by his outward works (1Cor. 13); if this applies for a Christian who truly operates in the gifts of the Spirit, how much more to wolves who never knew or are unfaithful to God. In Nigeria, it isn’t uncommon to sell one’s soul to satan for power or/and wealth; and ministers like this will have their people among the Sheep who will try to get Christians to accept the ministers. No one needs to be deceived regarding people like T.B. Joshua and other ministers. The Lord seems to have operated through the Mason I used to know in spite of the fact he was devoted to satan (this is why a final judgment shouldn’t be made hastily regarding what is of the Lord and what isn’t); however, no one but his ‘friends’ knows who he really is, because satan’s workers probably 99% of the time appear the exact opposite of who they really are as satan also does.

    Having said all that, I agree with Carl who said, “My message then is to consider the matter very seriously, do not be quick to judge another mans ministry.” 1Cor. 4:5 says, “Judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God” I.e. make no final judgment on a matter until the Lord has finally spoken on it (and often, those who have the final word on a matter don’t speak about it, but those who only know in part speak often). While we are to pass no final sentence until the Lord reveals fully, we are to be wise enough to know that we are in the last days, that Jesus is really our only Safety, that it isn’t only ministers who come as Sheep but are wolves but can also be our own trusted friends or the ‘Christians’ in the seat next to us or those we trust to watch our children (etc.), and that the Bible tells us to watch and be sober (as the enemy is diligently seeking places of vulnerability in order to destroy) and means it as a real warning and not a piece of advice. The enemy is after everyone he can get, and he goes after the vulnerable first; i.e. ‘those who do not know': “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge” (Hos. 4:6). Therefore, as the Bible says, ‘do not presume to know anything the Lord hasn’t revealed, but WATCH’.

  101. prophetessashanti Jul 1st 2012

    I have been a Christian for 32 years and I stopped watching “Christian” programs [TBN especially}, a long time ago. When will we recognize that “gifts and the Call of God come without repentance” [we have them from birth], and that it is our character and who we operate them for which attest to who we are serving?

  102. I reckon the reports of glitter from Ben Johnsons Bethel church and others are also fake miracles given to keep their followers happy and onboard, and naively even in the twisted belief that this will stir real faith in them. If u watch these videos there is no presence of God there, no awe or worship of God in the congregation, just a stupefied excitement at glitter falling from the ceilings of what others have claimed are the ventilation shafts in these ministers own churches. The world will laugh at this.

  103. Video on glitter from a cosmetic brand:


    Ben Johnsons Bethel churches own reports of this:


    The hysterical screams from the congegation are not what one would expect if the real presence of God descened on a meeting.

    I had better videos on this but my hardive has been wiped out and I so lost them. They can be found on line somewhere.

  104. PS I think we can expect a mixture of counterfeit occult power (incl healings) mixed in with these cheap con tricks in the future.

  105. Ibelieve Jul 1st 2012

    Carl Emerson
    My thoughts exactly concerning your comments. Unless we have positive proof that someone is proclaiming heresy or is not of the Lord then why lump them in the same group?

    We don’t want to become paranoid with end time thinking that we miss the Lord and end up attacking true followers of Jesus.

    Think about this scenario:

    The Apostle Paul preaches that a gentile does not need to be circumcised and is not under the law. A short while later Paul talks Timothy into getting circumcised, contradicting the very thing that he preached on earlier in his ministry.

    Can we all then say Paul is starting to get off in his ministry? He preaches one thing and then does another.

    Its by their fruits we shall know them.

    14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

    In Him

  106. If we dont warn our brothers who will. This glitter obviously isnt of God.

  107. PPS I dont garee with the end of the skeptics vid above, was a bit hasty there.

  108. Andrew Jul 1st 2012

    It is a fine line. I try to be careful when warning against false ministries. I also strongly believe in “accuracy” – not just ‘blanket’ condemnation. But at the same time, we are admonished to warn the Body and expose the wolves.

    A fine line indeed, at times.

    Bless you!


  109. Yeah. The problem faced is that unless these ministers submit to external testing how can they be tested, very difficult.

  110. oneseekingGod Jul 1st 2012

    I have seen for a very long time these who call themselves men of God go to evangelize this world. Here in America we have been so decieved into believeing that you can have a form of Godliness and deny the power of God. This spiritual sickness has been in the world from the beginning of time. But in this hour of God’s timeline we see it escalating. If we the men of God would have stood against the heresy that is being taught in our Churches here in the US. This sickness would not have spread so widely. All I can say we must return to the Wisdom of God and quit trying to rewrite the word. The Word of God is eternal and we should never stray from it. By doing such we have this world wide problem. Forgive us Lord for not standing when we must stand!!!

  111. Ibelieve Jul 1st 2012

    >>>>>>>>>>Yeah. The problem faced is that unless these ministers submit to external testing how can they be tested, very difficult.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Yes its a very fine line as brother Andrew stated.

    I watched the video. With so many strange manifestations, like clouds appearing, jewels falling from heaven etc. we have no other choice and that is to go back to the scriptures which are a light unto our path and a lamp unto our feet.

    Jesus said if it were possible the very elect would be deceived.

    Matthew 24:23-25
    “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.

    Whatever these great signs and wonders are they will be very convincing to most.

    2 Corinthians 11:2-4

    2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

    There is another Jesus that is being preached, another gospel and a different spirit, it states here in Corinthians.

    “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

    In Him,

  112. follow Jesus

  113. – oneseekingGod said “quit trying to rewrite the word” – a slightly different issue here – but wen I tried comparing “The Message Bible” with KJV verse for verse they were totally different. It is a terrible version. I dont think it is deliberately bad as it attempts to puit Jesus central to every paragraph but in so doing distorts/changes what each paragraph says. Something else to warch out for.

  114. I agree with Carl E., completely on this topic.

    Jesus said we need to know Him in order to walk His walk. There are but two choices and two religions in this world. The “I, Me and Myself”, or the “Way of The Cross”. If it’s the Cross, you’re going to have to be very attentive to hear the Master’s voice. This is the one place we cannot cheat or blame others. As we learn to fulfill His 2 commandments, we will be obeying all of them.

    Trials and Tribulations are for His children’s gain. Rejoice in them. Equally, all wisdom comes from God. He is glad to show each one of his children “The Way”…. so don’t forget to ask Him for His Wisdom in all things….for that might keep us from flapping in the wind.

  115. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    Ibelieve – why try and twist the teachings of Paul ?

  116. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    when saying
    Think about this scenario:

    The Apostle Paul preaches that a gentile does not need to be circumcised and is not under the law. A short while later Paul talks Timothy into getting circumcised, contradicting the very thing that he preached on earlier in his ministry.

    Can we all then say Paul is starting to get off in his ministry? He preaches one thing and then does another.

  117. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    Ibelieve said

    “>>>>>>>>>>Yeah. The problem faced is that unless these ministers submit to external testing how can they be tested, very difficult.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<"


    Well put for this is the problem. Many come to teach , however you here them howl when we simply want to examine their fruit.

    Have you noticed how many get offended and touchy saying question not the " anointed ".

    Fruit is fruit and being offended or defensive is not the fruit of Lord Jesus Christ

  118. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    Ibelieve, re my post above , do you understand why Paul asked Timothy to get circumcised ? and why this wasn’t contradicting the very thing that he preached on earlier in his ministry. ?

  119. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    No true servant of Lord Jesus Christ will object to being questioned about anything, for if they truly know Lord Jesus Christ, they will know that as it was for Him , it will be for them also.

    Defensiveness and being offended are not of lord Jesus Christ, and simply create a smokescreen of confusion to hide the underlying issues that are not the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

  120. Roger Jul 2nd 2012

    Lord Jesus spoke to his disciples concerning future events:

    Mat 24:9-13 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    ..and with those warnings, He always encouraged those who are His followers, speaking of His presence with those who are regenerated in Him:

    Mar 13:6-13 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Paul, being a true follower of Christ Jesus, and knowing Him as Lord, understood the present and the future:

    Act 20:25-32 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

    In His love,

  121. Carl Emerson…..wise words you wrote.

    I would remind us all that ALL POWER is of God. Satan only borrows that power. If a miracle is genuine and not faked….it is from God….even if the one who performed it is following the dragon, or self.

    That is why earlier I said that the one who administered or asked for the miracle that occurred can not take the credit for it….the credit goes to God. The FRUIT of the miracle was God’s Fruit…not the mans. God saw into the heart of the one who needed the genuine miracle, and it was in His Will to give that miracle. God does not decide based on the heart of the one who is saying…”Be healed!”….but based on the heart of the one receiving it….and based on circumstances that are yet to be (here and in Eternal Life) that we don’t know about.

    I believe that was what Christ was also saying.

    We must always stand up against the man who pretends to be following God, but his lifestyle says otherwise. Otherwise…many will be deceived. That is not a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

    If we say nothing….than neither the man….or the speaker….can be corrected into truth.

  122. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    Claudia , I agree with you saying ;

    ” We must always stand up against the man who pretends to be following God, but his lifestyle says otherwise. Otherwise…many will be deceived. That is not a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

    If we say nothing….than neither the man….or the speaker….can be corrected into truth.”


    ….. for this was what I raised earlier when saying

    No true servant of Lord Jesus Christ will object to being questioned about anything, for if they truly know Lord Jesus Christ, they will know that as it was for Him , it will be for them also.

    Defensiveness and being offended are not of lord Jesus Christ, and simply create a smokescreen of confusion to hide the underlying issues that are not the fruit of the Holy Spirit.


    Claudia, what do you say about lying signs and wonders and miracles being used to to bring a person under another spirit that is not Lord Jesus Christ ?

  123. Martin Jul 2nd 2012

    This thread is becoming a witch hunt!

    Let’s look at this entire canvas from a different point of view. The Church.

    The institutional church of at least the last 100 years has been in total denominational and doctrinal disarray. That’s utterly shameful. We are disunited, in permanent disagreement, disgruntled with each other and prey to every whim of doctrinal change or worldly fancy that is published abroad in the Name of Jesus.

    Divide and rule; we have been divided by the forces of evil and now they rule. And we, with our recent forefathers, have allowed, even encouraged, this to happen. We are already fulfilling the Matthew 24 words of Jesus, familial disagreements and wars. Why? Because we are divided. The Body has been ripped apart, sundered by the forces of evil.

    At the Temptation, Satan knew, if he could separate Jesus from His Father, separate Him from fulfilling the Father’s perfect will in the salvation of men, then Satan would rule, not our Heavenly Father. The Godhead would be sundered! The whole plan of salvation would come to naught. Satan would have the victory. Thank God he failed! Yes, thank God. But so many of us have fallen into the trap.

    Ephesians 4:3 be careful to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. I not here speaking of ecumenism, please be clear on that. I’m speaking of that generous spirit that shows forbearance in love. You may be a Methodist, but you are my sister in Christ and I will love you for His sake and in His Name! I am no longer a Methodist, but have Methodist friends across the globe whom I love in Christ. I know sound Christians who have not been called out of Rome, and I love them too, in Jesus’ Name and for His sake.

    An analogy of the Body I heard a long time ago is; a symphony orchestra with the Holy Spirit as the conductor. We’re not all violins, not all cymbals, tubers or pianists, but together, under one conductor, we may make the most glorious spiritual music to our Father and His Son Jesus.

    So how has this Nigerian preacher got in and made such a mark? How have others deflected the flock, and those who believe they’re the flock, from their God given course. Disunity. Divide and rule. A tactic Satan has employed so often, and to so much spiritual profit. And we’ve let him do it.

    A house divided cannot stand! We’re not standing. We’re being invaded by such men as this and our foundations are shaking. Even on here we can’t agree on the basic elements of doctrine.

    In the analogy of the symphony, if we’re all doing as we’ve been told by the conductor, playing our piece and keeping time with the conductor, we will make profound spiritual music to the Father, and Jesus will be glorified. That’s the Holy Spirit’s chief work, glorify Jesus.

    I might posit here, Jesus foresaw the state of the Church, institutional and otherwise, when He declared deceivers would come. But Paul saw his share too.

    You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you? Shouldn’t we say the same thing? Aren’t so many of our brothers and sisters bewitched? I say again, if we truly knew in our hearts even the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith, if we truly knew Jesus in reverential fear, in a repentant and Christ loving frame of mind, men such as this Nigerian would be on the poverty line, on welfare and wanting a ticket home!

    When we as a Body plead with the Lord Jesus to put us in a true New Testament Church, men such as this will have little or no place. It is our disobedience, our weakness and our willingness to offer a righteousness of our own to the Risen Christ that weakens us so much that men like this, and women have such a foothold within this most holy of bodies.

  124. Teshuva Jul 2nd 2012

    Joan W,
    Your post speaks to my inner man and is a breath of fresh air.

  125. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    The fruit we are to look for is the nature and character of Lord Jesus Christ.

    This fruit only comes from His Spirit within us and is the one thing the enemy of Christ can’t counterfeit .

    If we truly know and serve the one true risen and living Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit within us that leads and guides us , will not go against the teachings of Jesus that are recorded in the bible.

    The counterfeit spirit shows all the wrong fruit e.g. being aloof, evasive, defensive, controlling, offended, and will consistently go against the teachings of Jesus that are written, by saying they are merely elemental teachings, and if you are not up on the higher spiritual plan that you don’t understand for example.

    Those who are truly led by the Spirit of Lord Jesus Christ do not contradict His teachings that are recorded in the bible , nor do they try and hide from being examined as they know in the end we are all examined under the light of Lord Jesus Christ.

    Most of the division we see today is from the presence of different opposing spirits that come in the same name.

    We have been warned ;

    Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
    Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

    These false servants will lead many down the wide path to destruction .

    We all need to heed the warnings we have been given for salvation is at stake.

    As it is written so it shall be .

    Ensure that the spirit that leads you does not contradict the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles , that are recorded in the bible to prevent us from being deceived .

  126. Ibelieve Jul 2nd 2012

    I was just using that as an example that if it happened in our day and time would we question Paul as being legitimate. I understand clearly why Paul had Timothy circumcised and I have not a problem with it.

    I was using this as an example that if a modern day minister teaches one thing and practices another is it totally wrong. We do not know all the circumstances behind the reason a man is doing something in most cases without knowing all the complete facts.

    Sorry I reread the comment of mine and realized I did not give enough information as I knew it in my mind. I am not the best of writers when trying to make a point.

    I don’t think I was twisting what happened though because that was the way it took place. I guess it was a poor example but I could see in my mind where we could see a minister in one light without all the information when in reality he is doing what the Lord wants him to do.

    I’ll try to make my comments clearer and not go on so many tangents. :)

  127. Ibelieve Jul 2nd 2012

    One more thing, I am not talking about all the ministers out there that people know are doing wrong by what they are teaching others.

    I am mainly referring to the fact that every minister who comes along has enough to deal with without everyone being suspicious of him as a minster.

    If he happens to attend a service that has ministers who are preaching another gospel this does not mean he is in agreement with them because of the association or visit to a meeting.

    Were to show the ministry respect because of the calling they have in the body and there is nothing wrong with this.

    The five fold ministry in the body are greater targets to the enemy because they are leading Gods sheep.

    A few of these ministers mentioned because of this article I do not think they are as bad as some are painting them is all I am trying to say here.

    They need our prayers and intercessions!!

    In Him,

  128. Roger Jul 2nd 2012

    Martin, you say:

    “…Divide and rule; we have been divided by the forces of evil and now they rule. And we, with our recent forefathers, have allowed, even encouraged, this to happen. We are already fulfilling the Matthew 24 words of Jesus, familial disagreements and wars. Why? Because we are divided. The Body has been ripped apart, sundered by the forces of evil…”

    I understand why you say this, there is truth in what you say – however, is it that satan has the power to do this division – or – is it that Lord Jesus has allowed this to happen as part of the refining of His body..?


    To All:
    We read in scripture that there will be division between the sheep and goats, the wheat and tares – could it be that what we are now seeing is the beginning of this ‘end-time’ separation..? As God Himself ‘allows’ deception and delusion to expose those who are His true disciples, from those who are swayed by ‘every wind of doctrine’..?, and whom will be ‘given over’, as Paul warned:

    2Th 2:5 -12 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    As others have said, we are to look only to Christ Jesus as Lord of all – and follow Him alone, not be deceived by a counterfeit ‘holy spirit’ which is anti christ in its fruit.

    We pray that His will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven, and we ask that He cleanse the individual vessels that we each are…

    Then, we wonder why, when He fulfils the prophetic words that He has spoken, (and are recorded in Scripture), that events are not quite what we ‘wanted’..

    In the love, which is Lord Jesus Christ, and for His glory and Kingdom,

  129. When is a heresy hunter not a heresy hunter?

  130. Good thoughts Roger.

    When people followed (and still follow) Todd Bentley after the Lakeland fiasco we need to wonder why. The falsehood was so blatantly clear.

    Likewise with other issues, some people inisist on following, supporting and defending some seriously WRONG beliefs and practices and resist all evidence that shows up the falsehood.

    At times it seem like a clear dividing line has been drawn to determine who is GENUINELY desiring the Truth and to expose those who are not.

  131. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    Ibelieve, Gary, thanks for clarifying.

    By twisting I meant to imply that Paul contradicted himself, however I can see the context within which you were giving the example.



  132. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    Onesimus asks

    “When is a heresy hunter not a heresy hunter?”

    When the fruit of the spirit shows that they truly serve Lord Jesus Christ.

  133. Regarding Paul circumcising Timothy there was no contradiction between Paul’s teaching in Galatians and what he did to Timothy.

    1) Timothy was a previously uncircumcised Jew (not a gentile)
    2) The circumcision was not conducted to make Timothy acceptable to God.

    It’s all matter of context.

  134. Amen to all of the thoughtful statements posted above, dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Believe it or not, I think this Broad is helping each of us to reflect more on Christ our one and only Savior and Lord. I had no idea all this was going on in churches around the world. He didn’t promise us a rose garden, you know. But we are slowly and surely getting rid of some of the thorns.

    And just one more thing I plan to do every morn and night. Every night as I go to bed, I’m going to talk with the Lord and ask Him to forgive me of my sins of the day in humble repentence. When (?) I wake up each morning, I’m going to greet Him with thankgiving and thanks for the day to come and ask Him for His protection and for His Wisdom to meet the day’s needs. In these perilous times, we cannot be too armoured up. .

  135. Some are called to expose – not that they want to or take any pleasure in it – but they are called to expose and they do this for the sake of Christ…

    Others are “self appointed” “exposers”…

    And these ones are ones who do damage in the Body of Christ…

    The “self appointed” “exposers”…

    Because they are not operating in the discernment of the Holy Spirit…

    They are not gifted to be doing what they have “taken it upon” themselves to do…

    They are like the sons of Sceva who “took it upon” themselves to try and cast out demons like Paul was…

    The demons didn’t recognise them or their “authority” because it was not from the Lord…

    If it – the authority which we exercise in the Name of the Lord – is really from the Lord then what we say and what we do will be powerful in the Hands of the Lord to break down strongholds…

    If all that occurs when we speak to “expose” is that division occurs and neither the “faithful” or the “unfaithful” are convinced of the truth of what we have been sharing then we have to wonder whether we’ve been given the authority by the Lord to do whatever “exposing” it is that we’ve been doing…

    True exposing will be rejected by many…

    But those who are of the truth will know the truth of the true exposing which will also be done in a spirit of humility and in the Love of Christ with the desire for those who are being exposed to be brought back to repentance – no matter who they are and how far they have “fallen”…

    Fallen into the trap of the devil to be his mouthpiece and his vehicle in this world…

    When we sinned in the Garden we lost our “connection” with God – we all have a void in our lives where our relationship with our Creator is meant to be…

    In our desire to suppress the truth in unrighteousness we have all filled this void with the voice of deceiving spirits…

    Living in a fantasy world is easier than living in the real world facing this “emptiness” which we know is there because we don’t have a relationship with our Creator (our consciences show us this) and so we fill the void with anything else…

    Some seek power, some seek supernatural experiences, some seek supernatural spiritual experiences, some want contact with spirits, some want to daydream, some want to live in a parallel universe by the use of online gaming, drugs, pornography, or by going on a “power trip” to “become something” in the world of “christianity” – to “fill up” on being “recognised” as a “this” or a “that” in the world of “christianity” – to make them able to take their mind off the reality of who they are without Christ…

    After awhile the repression of reality causes them to lose complete “touch” with reality and this is where they are most dangerous and their consciences become “seared” as with a branding iron and they choose to live in “unreality” and then become incapable of remembering this choice and go off into “oblivion” in the sense that they are just storing up wrath for themselves against the day of judgement while they are still “living out” their lives on earth…

    O God may none of us here (or anywhere) be these ones…

    Have mercy on them Lord…

    Bring them to their senses and let them escape from the snare of the fowler…

    Escape from the snare of the devil who has taken them captive to do his will…

    All of us Lord who are in this category – have mercy on us all – in any area of our lives where fantasization or living in a fantasy world – not living in the real world – not seeking after a relationship with the Real God – Jesus Christ our Lord – has taken over in our hearts…

    You are reaching out to us – You are “Hands outstretched” to us but we must humble ourselves before You and let go of the “security blankets” and “idols” which we have put between us and You to “dull” our pain at our loss of relationship with You which was caused by each of our rebellion against You…

    You have not changed and will not change – we must humble ourselves before You…

    The Spirit of Truth is just who He says He is – The Spirit of Truth – He does not lie, He does not deceive – He does not let us down – any other voices (demonic or soulish) will lie, cheat, steal, let us down, cause us to question our faith in Christ and leave us eventually in torment…

    We are in need of seeking Your Face in repentance before You – seeking Your Face for a reinstatement of the relationship we had with You before the fall – before we rebelled against You – no one to blame – all this “work” this “chasing” which we do after “everything else” (good feelings, miracles, healings, blessings, supernatural encounters, being “caught up in the spirit”, or whatever else) – anything which is not rooted in coming to the foot of the cross in repentance and placing ourselve on the Altar of God for Him to use us and purge us and make us like Him – it is all a lie and a “chasing after the wind” as Solomon says – we need to seek the Face of God – and firstly we need to seek His Face in repentance – always first in repentance…

    The Lord has shown me recently that all the “daydreaming” which I do – almost sub-consciously – although He’s making me conscious of it – is all an attempt to fill the void of my “right now” reality before Him…

    I’ve been starting to pray that the Lord would remove all “daydreaming” and thoughts of the future or even thoughts of a “happy future” from me so that only what He has shown me can remain – even what He has shown me – letting it go so that I can feel the pain now and then let Him bring the fulfilment on these words in the future – submitting to His Yoke (“It is good for a man that he should bear The yoke in his youth” Lamentations 3:27 NASB) – and going through the pain which is required to make the impact on our lives which needs to be made…

    Humbling ourselves in the sight of the Lord…

    Facing reality no matter how painful is better than living in deception (i.e. being deceived)…

    Only the Truth satisfies, only the truth sets us free…

    Falsehood binds us…

    Might “feel good” for a while but ultimately leads us to death…

  136. Significantly, neither “heresy” nor “fruit of the Spirit” should be judged subjectively, yet far too often they are.
    We make judgement based on what affects us.
    Too often the defining standard depends on:

    1) what appeals to us
    2) what offends to us

    Judgement should be made from God’s viewpoint as shared through His revelation of Himself.

    Why do people like Chris Oyakhilome or Todd Bentley or countless others of that type gain their devoted following? Is it because their devotees have tested their claims and found them legitimate? Or are they accepted because of something else?

    While most here see through extreme cases like these men, are we any less prone to be deceived if we aren’t diligent to test all things to ensure we don’t fall for more subtle but equally dangerous errors?

    As long as we rely on what “feels good” or “feels right” and what “seems good” or “seems right” our foundation will never be secure.

  137. Kevin…I read your post regarding defensiveness and offense….you nailed it! There is no growth if our egos are such that become defensive or take offense. Both attitudes are big red flags marked “EGO”….which is all about self worship.

    You asked me:…, “what do you say about lying signs and wonders and miracles being used to to bring a person under another spirit that is not Lord Jesus Christ?”

    I have not given it much thought…but am inclined to answer that if a person has already come to Christ because they want (were motivated by) something other than “self” gain and the world of man….truly wanting the Will of God because they have realized what the will of man has done to the world….coming to Christ to give Him our love, respect and worship….that Christ is not going to let them be deceived.

    If the person is not yet a Christian….but is seeking security and comfort, affirmation by looking towards human acceptance…belonging……I think there is a real danger of that pursuit leading them to taking a master that is not our Lord….because they are looking towards the deceptive man and his followers to build them up…and they are basically looking for gain of the self….someone to love them….as apposed to looking for Someone to love and give their life for. The dragon eats up those types….those who still look towards their human community for self acceptance and validation…..those who think they have innate worth by just being born.

    True Christians have been convicted in their heart that they have no worth and will find no worth outside of Christ. They gather with others because they want to help others, not because they are seeking wealth or gain of self. They are seeking to know God because they love Him. They gather to add their expression of Love in that Orchestra that Martin referred to, being conducted by the Holy Spirit.

    Blessed are those who were born into good and loving families with standards that kept them safe and guided them into our loving Father’s Arms. Once there, they can learn of Him from diligent study of the Bible and fall in love with Him as He is revealed…and that study will enable them to realize that they are fallen and their true worth is in Christ….not in what their parents or friends think of them. That was God’s plan…but so many in this world today do not have that blessing.

  138. I think the key to not being deceived, and what is foundational to my thoughts in the above post is the scriptures that came from Christ, where He was discussing our PRIORITIES.

    LUKE 14: 26=If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27=And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28=For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29=Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30=Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. 31=Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 32=Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. 33=So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. 34=Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?

    The above seems harsh to our modern ears. But what it means when it says “hate” is that we choose Christ’s Way over our mother and father’s way. Christ comes first. We love Him the most. Don’t forget that He also taught us that we are to honor our father and mother….God put it right in the commandments….and many scriptures teach us to love and take care of our family. The “bear his cross” part means our daily sacrifice of self, putting others (who are not evil) first over our desires. The verse 33 sums it all up…we are to forsake all things by putting Christ at our head, by desiring the attainment of maturity in Christ as our goal, by conforming ourselves to Him as our foremost goal upon this earth….repenting of past ways and walking a new with Him. We are to love Him more than anything else.


    Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    The above scripture pretty much explains those who are seeking security and comfort, and self affirmation by looking towards human acceptance and belonging.

  139. The key to avoiding deception is to know God. To know what He is like, to know His ways and to know His purposes.

    This comes through relationship with Him. It comes through the revelation He gives of Himself. That revelation comes by His Spirit and through His Word. It comes through addressing the WHOLE revelation of scripture with the Holy Spirit as our teacher.

    It is not gained through only addressing select parts of scripture.
    It is not gained through only trusting men’s teaching.

    EVERY doctrinal controversy I have come across has its foundation in following men and men’s teachings instead of taking personal responsibility for our relationship with God. Following men’s teaching without giving it due scrutiny and testing it according to scripture.

    Testing it by doing MORE than merely checking the few select verses quoted by the teacher.
    Testing by diligently searching the scriptures and accepting NOTHING until that search convinces us that the teaching is sound.

    Testing every teaching and ever word of prophecy is essential if we want to avoid being led astray. And when problems with teaching and prophecy are seen, then they need to be addressed properly and not merely brushed aside as if they didn’t matter. They need to be properly addressed instead of making excuses for them.

    The article above is headed False Prophets and Global Deception. There’s not a lot we can do personally about “Global Deception”. There’s not much we can do personally about Chris Oyakhilome or celebrity “leaders” of his type – but we CAN do something personally about the things WE accept and about the things that are promoted in our immediate area of contact.

  140. Kevin Jul 2nd 2012

    Coming back to the title FALSE PROPHETS and GLOBAL DECEPTION , we are going to see this literally unfold as the fulfillment of bible prophecy that takes place in the lead up to the visible return of Lord Jesus Christ.

    This has all been covered extensively by Jesus and the apostles in many ways throughout the NT.

    We also have clear examples of how Jesus and the apostles responded to false accusations, imprisonment and attempts to undermine their ministries, which gives clear examples of the nature and character of Christ , being the fruit of the spirit .

    True servants of Lord Jesus Christ show His nature and character when faced with adversity and challenges , for they know as it was for Him , it will be for them.

    It would be a mistake to bow to the politically correct times we live in, and shy away from all the warnings and instructions that are contained in the NT regarding testing the spirits and looking for the fruit , to tell the true from false servants .

    Only the false will complain about being tested.

    The true will always rejoice in their sufferings knowing that their Lord Jesus Christ has walked the same path before them , and considers them worthy to suffer as He did, and knowing what they do is all for His glory.

    Only the false wants the glory from man, and complains and gets offended when they don’t get their own way, and says touch not thine anointed.

    We have the example of Jesus and His true servants in the bible to compare against all that is put before us today.

    All we need do is follow His example.

    Praise our glorious risen Lord Jesus Christ

  141. Colin Jul 2nd 2012

    To Justine
    Peter was correct about Revelation TV. They are now taking on board further WoF preachers with a woman leaders called Joyce Meyer. She appears regularly on other tv channels who promote WoF
    They are now promoting the false prophet called Sid Roth who appears on the same channels too.
    See http://www.revelationtv.com/bin/nl-jul-2012.pdf.
    Please view this link regarding the set up of the TV station
    It is an eye opener what has been hidden.
    The reason for going to Spain is that they can do as they please and having a new audience there. The WoF is for starters and that is why they do not expose the WoF Movement.
    But spoke against Justin Peters for his exposure of them

  142. Andrew Jul 2nd 2012

    I was always under the impression that Revelation TV did not go in for that “Prosperity” stuff.

    I guess they needed money and that opened the door – perhaps.

    That is the problem. The Prosperity teachers can “buy” their way in – and they always have.

    Only God can truly deal with this on such a global scale.

    It is a nightmare.

    Blessings to all