A total classic… The following vision was given to L. Vere Elliott in the late 1970’s:

-by L. Vere Elliott.

This is the vision/revelation. I was in the midst of a great meeting
hall (a church), and the walls and ceilings were covered with jewels
and ornaments, and the windows were made of colored glass (a
typical cathedral or church). The hall was full of people, some rich,
some poor, some sick and crippled, mute and blind; but all had
chains on and were hand-cuffed, and no one was free (a picture
of today’s church, they’re in church but they’re not free).

In front of the meeting hall was a large platform, with a pulpit on
one side and a large cage on the other, with a huge green serpent
in it; and hanging over where the speaker would stand, was a
great sword suspended by two strings horizontally; and on the
platform were several ministers, 8 or 10, clothed in clerical robes,
sitting one behind the other, one seated just a little above the other.

The assembly looked upon these men and they looked upon the
church. There was silence for a while, until a thundering voice
sounded from the pulpit, as if it came directly from God, saying,
Who will declare the whole counsel of God? And the first
clergyman arose with a Bible in his hand, and when he did, the
old green serpent uncoiled and stretched out hissing against the
man with sparkling eyes and protruding fangs; and the man of
God, falsely so-called, sank back into his seat and placed his
Bible under the chair. And when the serpent stretched up his
head and touched the sword, he said to that man, Anyone who
obeys the voice of God, I will kill with this sword. And for a little
while, there was silence again.

And then the Voice sounded from the pulpit again, Who will
declare the whole counsel of God? And then the second man in
clerical robes arose as if he would step forward, and again the
serpent uncoiled against him, and he tumbled back with fear and
sat down and placed his Bible under his chair (hiding the Word).
The serpent again touched the sword, and with the same
remark said, I will kill you, if you obey the voice of God.

And for the third time the Voice from the pulpit thundered, and a
third man arose and sat down like the two before him. And again
and again the Voice sounded until each of the clergyman had had
an opportunity to resist the serpent, but fear overcame them all,
like the first three had been overcome. And the serpent smiled
with his evil smile. And then the Voice sounded again from the
pulpit saying, Oh if there were a man, Oh if there were a man; Oh
if there were a man who would declare the whole counsel of God,
that these chained men might be set free! Is there not one man?

Then a man of little stature (meaning he was nothing in the sight
of the world), ascended the platform and stood under the sword,
and he lifted up his eyes toward heaven and said, Into Thy hands
O God, I committ my spirit. Then he opened the Bible and read.
He didn’t add anything to It, and he didn’t take anything from It; he
read the Word, and spoke as a man having authority. And when
he had finished, the old serpent stretched up to the edge of the
sword and cut off one of the strings holding the sword in place,
and the sword swung down and missed him and passed over his
head; because he was a man of “little stature”; and the weight of
the sword made the other string to break, and the sword swung
back and pierced the hearts of those clergymen who were lined
up and nailed them to the wall. And a great scream of despair
sounded from the pulpit; but an even greater cry of joy sounded
from the assembly, for every man’s chains were loosed and they
were set free! (By the word they were set free).

When this vision had vanished, I saw another vision of the Savior
in a cloud, just above my head. He spoke saying, Hear my son
the meaning of these things. The meeting hall which you saw is
the secularized church, having a form of godliness, but denying
the power thereof. They are all covered with the jewels of the joys
of this world, and there is no end to heir silver and gold. The
people which you saw, are those for whom I died, but My people
are destroyed for lack of knowledge; they have eyes, but they do
not see; they have ears, but they cannot hear. They are truly
in bondage and must be set free!

The platform in which you saw, on which the clergymen were
sitting; the platform is the preconceived ideas, having their origins
from the pit of hell. The pulpit is the throne of God; and the
serpent, old Lucifer himself. The sword which you saw, is the
Word of God; and the strings on which it was hanging, mean the
power of the Word to give life or the power of the Word to take life.
Life was given to the man of little stature and life taken from the
clergymen that did not preach My Word! The clergymen that you
saw, are men (& women) from every church who pretend to know
Me, but they teach My people things which are not written in the
Book of life; and their pride and their presumption, and their wordly
spirit force them to obey Satan, who is a liar and the father of lies;
and each of the clergymen try and exceed the other in elegance,
in extensive writings, argumentation and the like; but they only
consider the” letter” of the Word, and leave out the “spirit” of the
Word. And the day will come and now is at hand, when they
shall all perish, just like these.

After having considered this horrible scene, the Lord spoke again
with these words, Do you remember My words in the prophecy
of Jeremiah chapter 23, as well as My words in the prophecy of
Ezekiel chapter 34? Jesus said, Read it. And I opened my Bible
and read, Woe unto the shepherds that destroy and scatter the
sheep of My pasture, saith the LORD. (Jer.23:1) In the prophets
I have see a horrible thing, they committ adultery and they walk
in falsehood: (a perversion of the Word of God), and strenghthen
the hands of evil doers. (Jer.23:14).

Jesus said, At the end of days you shall understand this. Woe
to the shepherds that feed themselves, should not the shepherds
feed the flock! (Ezek.34:2). The weak you have not strengthened,
nor have you healed the sick, you’ve not bound up that which was
broken, and neither have you sought that which was lost; but with
harshness and with rigor have you ruled over them. (Ezek.34:4).
I will destroy the fat and the strong shepherds; and I will feed
them with judgement. (Ezek34:16). Then He said to me, That
these false shepherds shall in no wise escape when the sword
falls upon them. But My sheep must be warned, they must be
set free! And again He said, Do you remember My words in the
prophecy of Jeremiah in the latter part of chapter 25? Read it!
And I read these words, And the slain if the LORD shall be in
that day from one end of the earth, even to the other end of the
earth: (Jer.25:33). Howl ye shepherds, for the day of your
slaughter is come! (Jer.25:34).

Then He said to me, These days shall come quickly, the
shepherds shall howl, yea, there shall be weeping and gnashing
of teeth; but when the sword has fallen it will be too late forever.
The man whom you saw who was of little stature, is every man
and woman who will humble himself or herself, and be obedient
even to the death of the cross, putting his or her trust in God, and
going forward declaring the whole counsel of God! Oh, if I could
find such a man, can you tell Me where there is one? With such
a man I could shake heaven and earth, saith the LORD.

-Please comment on this article below-

Posted in Uncategorized by Andrew on September 18th, 2012 at 5:00 pm.


132 Replies

  1. Interesting vision. The application is helpful. Thank you for sharing.

  2. My heart is not responding to this word – we all live under the grace and mercy of God – and I love to hear the word of God spoken in fullness – but I dont receive it.

  3. This vision sounds and seems accurate and Scriptural, however, I am wary of visions after all the Rick Joyner stuff… that seemed to be godly, too, and look at the fruit of it – endorsement to Todd Bentley and that ‘anointing’.

    I know God speaks and gives visions today. Just would like to know the messenger & their walk a bit more personally before I can trust them. Not sure internet is meant to spread and circulate prophecies and words to the extent we are seeing today.

  4. Yes, the whole counsel of God.

  5. Oh that men would so humble themselves…

    Oh that men would so fear God and not the other men or the adversary…

    Then would we find true men of God, and not just vainly religious men comparing themselves against other men.

  6. Christian journalist Sep 18th 2012

    Similar visions was expressed and shared on the internet in the late 20th century and at the beginning of the 21st century. It concerned the stranglehold of charismatic leaders who were using Restorationism, Dominionism, and the name and claim theology. From it came heavy shepherding followed by the Toronto Blessing where christians were expected to be in engulfed in the outpouring of the spiritual phenomenon, and in obedience to the elect doing this.
    The result is what can be seen today and is it going from bad to worse where false teachers and prophets are allowed to roam free and have access without question with no discernment.
    These false leaders will continue doing as they please. The result is that the christian church and its membership are being scattered and the destructive element has been to divide and rule under the pretence that the so called leaders are the “anointed” and should not challenged or questioned.
    They are there to be seen everywhere whether on christian tv channels, radio, invited guests at conferences and gatherings, and spreading another gospel on dvds, cds, and books that have been published for people to buy. From their utterances they wish to bring in their version of a world wide revival to swamp the christian church and christians.
    They dismiss that there will be a falling away in the End Times and discredit brethren who dare question their authority. Those who question them are said to be the enemy and are not to be taken noticed of.
    They will not go away and will remain so doing with their destructive actions claiming it all to be inspired by God and of the “spirit.”
    So there you have it in a nutshell.
    Would appreciate further comments please

  7. I had a vision awhile back. It was similar in meaning:

    This morning…had vision of a church ~ white, steeple. Sign out front said 24 hours. I saw people coming and going – they were wearing robes. The robes were in varying shades of dirt, soil. None were white – more off white; dull white; grayish. Some had stains or smudges. They didn’t change even after they had been at church.

    Should we not be different after attending church? Should we not be changed after attending church?

  8. To Christian journalist: David Noakes, (quite a well known biblical leader in the UK amongst more discerning believers), had a word very similar to the one you have refered to above.- see link below:

    [ D. Noakes prophecy, “a warning for charismatics,” Dec 1994].

    Thats a phenominal prophetic vision on this site. I witness to Lynns word above too.

    I feel challenged by them as I have a tendancy to want to tone down the word when talking to unblievers, (altho it was Christians in that vision i suppose).

  9. P.S to Christian journalist again, he also had this prophecy about Toronto which parrallels what you have said as well.

    D. Noakes “Waves of deception.”

  10. Brother Amartey Sep 18th 2012

    Lord be merciful unto us and pour out Your Spirit upon us again and let us rejoice in You again.

  11. Re alice here at top – i have to dissagree, i prayed for discernment before even reading the word presented here and witnessed to this being of God, quite a clear discernment on it, and believe it was very pure in the way it was relayed by L. Vere Elliott too, unpolluted by that persons own opinions. One of the best visdions Ive ever seen in fact.

    Re NG 2nd from top: I agree that the “Rick Joyner stuff” is all dodgy and from another spirit as i think you implied. It does have a particular vibe tho which is not that hard to detect once you become aware of it, (for eg Joyner is almost always at the centre of his visions and they run a bit like Tolkeins “Lord of the Rings” in their imagery, (a fantasy book about aspiritual war between black and white wizards both of which move in witchcraft). Ive noticed some who have recieve his visions sometimes start to get similar visions with that same vibe – from the same occult spirit of deception, an example is Wendy Alec of the God Channel after she linked closer to Joyner, (once she realised her spiritual prophetic adviser, Paul Cain, was an active drug taking rent boy using homosexual) – that must have been a bit of a shock for her. Bbefore that altho skeptical about her unbiblical openess and links, I did witnessed to many of her prophecies though and think she also has a genuine gift of prophecy but it has probably been strangled by now. She always seens to turn to these wacky false prophets for guidance, those who move in a New Age spirit eg Todd Bentley, Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, Paul Cain.

  12. debylynne Sep 18th 2012

    amen, brother amartey
    yes, NG, i feel the same…..
    Christian Journalist, exactly.

    i have also become very ‘wary’ of ‘visons/dreams’ that people ‘declare’ they have had – same reasons – all the abuse and lies by so many……while i was not ‘overwhelmed’ by this word as in the ‘witness of the Spirit’, i was not ‘turned away’ by it either…..what is being declared here IS truth and does not seem to ‘focus’ on or glorify any person (as i felt joyner’s words DID) i am going to go and read the other ‘words’ that STEVE gave the links to…..
    the ‘bad’ side (if you can call it that) to having your eyes opened from deception is that it is HARD to ‘trust’ again….we’ve been over 4 years ‘out of the wilderness of lies’ and STILL healing from all of it.
    i don’t want to ‘dismiss’ the TRUE moving of the Spirit of God in visions/dreams/words but i will NOT run after such things…….

    ultimately, what is being declared in this vision is what we KNOW – at least most of those that come to this site seem to know is going on in the ‘church’.

    one last thing – this word does make me feel ENCOURAGED to stand up and speak up and refuse to SHUT UP when it comes to the TRUTH of the GOSPEL – so, if that is an ‘indicator’ that it is truly OF God – then, amen and amen!

    i DO look forward to hearing what others ‘see’ here because i find that many times i DO NOT see all there is to see and find a great deal of enlightenment in what is shared here by the rest of you!!

  13. Amen brother. I think God is yelling at us for this is the last hour and we are asleep while the world is on there way to hell

  14. debylynne Sep 18th 2012

    one other thing concerning the ‘visions’ of rick joyner and wendy alec – i had his books – his visions – so many ‘raved’ about them and i simply could NOT ‘get anything out of them’! the same with wendy alec’s ‘unknown prophet revelation’ stuff – i got her book and thought, ‘this is going to be GOOD’ and i was so disappointed because it was almost nothing but ‘gobbley gook’ to me – i felt BADLY about this, because at the time, i thought these people were truly ‘of God’ and that there was something WRONG with me – looking back i realize that the LORD, by His HOLY SPIRIT, was warning me over and over – i had ‘checks’ in my spirit on things that were done and said MANY times – but, i thought it was just ‘me’ and i would REPENT for being ‘judgmental’!!!!!

    don’t IGNORE it when your spirit gives you that ‘ernnnnnt’ feeling (hope you can recognize that sound lol!) EXAMINE it!! my ‘first’ warning concerning todd bentley came when he misquoted and misapplied scripture – i was sitting there and thinking ‘this is God’ and suddenly – there is was – the Word of God being misquoted and misused and at that moment – i KNEW and that, as they say, was THAT…..the beginning of the big ‘unravel’…….

    so, back to this particular word – IF it does not ring ‘true’ to you, examine why?? for me, a lot has to do with fear and i have to ‘wrestle’ with things – NOT because the word is NOT from the LORD, but because i AM much more ‘distrustful’ these days…..but, i DO wonder about something – back in the 70s when this word was ‘given’ – what was the reaction to it?? i have never read/seen/heard it before – had any of you???

  15. debylynne Sep 18th 2012

    thank you, steve, for the links….i have never heard of this man and in keeping with what was spoken by NG, i wish i knew more about him but i WILL say this…when i read the ‘exerpt’ from the book given in the second link – i was ‘gripped’ in my heart by what it contained – strongly……
    much moreso than the ‘vision’ that we are looking at here today – there was something very very powerful in what this man, D. Noakes, saw and shared – perhaps because it was much more ‘specific’ as to what was being ‘exposed’??

    a quote from the first link you gave

    ‘Each wave will be deadlier than the last and will attract more of those whose feet are not firmly grounded on the rock of my Word.’

    looking back it is AMAZING to me to realize how LITTLE of what we heard was the Word of God – how MUCH was these ‘prophets’ visions and revelations and ‘gifts’ operating and because of that, how EASY it was to be deceived by them…………..

  16. Truth!

  17. debylynne, I was very active back in the 70’s during the big Charismatic movement. At times I felt I’d died and gone to Heaven on Earth! (wrong!!) In short, I fell for the name it, claim it mumbo-jumbo theology hook-line and sinker. I gave more to their ministries than some folk earned in a year! Looking back, I was disgusting and a fool. Why? I was highly ignorant of His True Word…Like the leaders of this movement, I was taking His Word out of context and adding words that were not there.

    I do Not condemn Oral Roberts, Papa Haggin, Jimmy Swaggart, James Bakker, etc, etc. I blame self! I knew the Word nominaly. I was not versed in true Bible Doctrine. In 1987 we lost a vast fortune overnight in the stockmarket crash. (mammon rears it ugly head).

    In the next ten years I began to TRULY study God’s Word. Even a person who has the gift of ‘discerning of spirits’ can be decieved, if their theology turns faulty. I read the dream/vision posted and know this:

    It is a solid piece that encompasses what God tells us the choice we have to follow Him; it is scriptual and sound. I believe the writer is on target. It does not bring focus on self. Because it is what I know to be true, from experience and from His Word, I give it an “A”. I do not speak for others, I know it true to myself.

  18. I had a “vision” (not really sure what to call it) probably over 20 years ago, now. It was like I was watching this very posh “Christian” dinner party. There were silver trays of delicacies being passed around the room. The trays had all sorts of fancy appetizers (VERY alluring, mouth-watering stuff).

    As I looked a little closer I was made aware that there was actually RAT POISON randomly resting right next to the appetizers, on the trays. The poison in this case wasn’t particularly disguised as good food, but more so, it was obvious poison.

    I was also made aware that the people passing around the trays were quite aware of the poison (to my horror) and they were making *some* effort to avoid it and choose good food, but for the most part they just tolerated it. Their pathetic efforts amounted to nothing more than just moving the tray so that it would be a little harder to reach the poison, rather than removing it, or warning others that it was there. It seemed their rationale was that as long as the food didn’t actually TOUCH the poison, it was still good.

    I was very distraught and almost hysterical trying to get our host to realize just how dangerous this was!

    I was horrified as I watched baby Christians over and over again, come SO close to selecting the rat poison over the good food, because they just weren’t aware of its presence, and also because they trusted that whatever they were being served, would be good food. It seemed that no one in the room was concerned, but me.

    The others would smile sweetly and continue conversing with each other as though there were no danger at all. I remember a few times people would actually stop their conversations for a second as someone was about to select the rat poison, and then sigh a sort of sigh of relief when the other person chose something other than the poison.

    I asked someone in the room why they weren’t freaking out and screaming at the top of their lungs; “There’s poison on that plate!” and the answer came back that; “people are smart enough to pick and choose from truth and error”.

    I was concerned that by this point even the ‘good’ food was going to get contaminated and I wondered what would happen when it was all gone, and the babies only had rat poison to pass around? Would they continue to pass THAT around??

    The mixture of truth and error do NOT MIX and God used this vision to warn me many times over the years. Whenever I see a mixture I know to not take ANY of whatever they are ‘serving’, because it does not come from a pure source.

  19. I agree with many of the comment above. On my personal journey I have been feeling the call to obedience at a greater level than before. And this in itself is nothing new. But Christian Journalist mentions the obedience to the elect, shepherding etc. all of which has been shown by those who are open to Gods Word to be false. I am very sensitive to this issue as I was brought up a Catholic and was even ordained a Catholic priest. If there is one denomination that has for the last few millennia taught that there is only one way to understand Gods revelation then it would be the Catholic Church.

    There is another thing which strikes me in the vision. I fully endorse the role of the 5 fold ministry. however, i am very much aware that the 5 fold is not there to be served by the body but to serve the body.The 5 fold is there to help the body stand strong in the faith, living to the fullness of their potential as sons and daughters of God, filled with the power of the Holy Spirit and walking in the love of the Fathers heart. And who are they to be obedient to? Only to God. In our church I encourage people to seek God first, to seek His will in their lives. I am there to help support them on THEIR journey, the people who come to church are not their to support mine. And this is something I see so often when people do not commit to God because they do not see themselves as the “Professionals” in serving God. That is so very very sad for me, that for me are the chains of the people in the vision.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love to teach and preach, but I need those I minister to to be totally dependant on God and not on me. We preach the Word, and God we preach it accurately not adding or taking anything away. We preach so that people can move away from spiritual milk, we teach to help people in their relationship.

    Oh to be able to hear God and obey without questioning, of standing strong when we listen to Gods word spoken to us and not to the hissing of the serpent. The next time we feel like we are being tested I pray that all of us can say after the man of little stature the words of Jesus “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit.”

  20. I have read this vision a few years ago and it still strikes me just the same…Powerful!!!! All we need is The Spirit of The Living God to discern what is from Him and what is not. This certainly is of Him.

  21. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    DL – what the LORD showed you REALLY speaks to me – as to what is going on ALL THE TIME – oh, LORD, wake us up!!!!

  22. Thanks for commenting, Debylynne. I wasn’t sure if I should share that, now I am glad that I did.

    Sometimes when I see video footage of some of the insane things that are going on in the Body of Christ,I forget that there are often baby Christians caught up in it. They’re “drinking the Kool-aid” because the older Christians aren’t there to warn them.

    Yes indeed, WAKE UP BELIEVERS!

  23. Mark Andrew Sep 19th 2012

    This vision to me is about the spirit of hierarchy, where the men on the platform, the “clergy” are “clothed in clerical robes, sitting one behind the other, one seated just a little above the other” and elevated above the rest of us, the laity. Since the Reformation, we have had access to the written Word of God in our own language. However, I read several yearts ago that today only one in seven Christians in the UK have actually read the Bible in its entirety. This allows in this same spirit of hierarchy, most associated with in the Roman Catholic Church, to prevail in the Protestant denominations and gatherings, keeping people away from the Truth as before the Reformation.

    The Biblical context for honouring spiritual authority is that some individuals are to be appointed “elders” in order to care for the souls of those young in Christ, and that they accordingly deserve honour. The situation today is that many “shepherds” have very little concern for their flock, and that there is also a general confusion between the honouring and the idolatry of authority. It is now time for another Reformation, where the little guys, as in this vision, say “enough is enough!”, stand up and start preaching the Word. The religious hierarchies will, of course, be furious, but I am convinced that Heaven will joyfully say, “At last!”

  24. NG (and others) I echo your thoughts on the internet not being the place to bring prophecies and words, etc. I had the same thought the other day. I like to know the walk of the person delivering the word. I feel I need to be able to look at the person eye-ball-to-eye ball.

    So much of what we read ‘here’ we have no idea who, and what they are connected to. Anyone can say, or “BE”, anything they want, on the internet! How do we really know the CHARACTER of the one bringing the word, if we have never really met them?

    I don’t honestly know the answer though, because if it weren’t for the internet, a lot of what is going would not get exposed.

    What is so discouraging to me and my husband is that often there is a HUGE mixture. Many times people that are sounding the alarm in one camp, are preaching error in another camp. I am a grace person (not OSAS) but I lean toward legalism in many ways because I tend to want -“JUST THE PURE TRUTH”. However, lately, I have been discouraged because when I see how many of those telling the truth, interact with people on forums and such, they lack love in the way they deal with people. This sets ups such a confusion in me. Many times, I feel as though they care more about being RIGHT, than caring for those in error. How will ever implore others to come to repentance, if we ourselves, only show them pride and arrogance?

    To be honest with you…I have personally decided that if a Pastor or Ministry has a huge following, if they are wealthy, and if they are well-received, mainstream? I am going to stay away from them, for now. I have a “wait-and-see” attitude about much of what goes on in Christian circles, right now. Maybe it comes with age, but I feel like I have just seen so much after years of involvement in the Charismatic movement, etc.

    I know that might sound like a sweeping statement and a wee-bit judgmental, but I believe power, notoriety and money, corrupts, MOST people. And very few Christians can remain true to the Word and their principles, if the are rich and famous.

    I’m more apt to listen to a minster who has been trained by God Himself, someplace in a cave, in an obscure backwoods..with no title, and no notoriety, but speaks an uncompromising Word of God. This is a man that has nothing to loose.

  25. It’s not just in the ‘churches’ where false doctrine is preached. A couple of years ago the Lord called me to Bible College. I didn’t understand at the time why He wanted me to go. I lasted just one year. It made me literally sick to my stomach to hear what was being taught in an A.O.G. Pentecostal Bible College. It was nothing less than ‘doctrine of demons’. As a believer who has studied the Bible for myself for close on 45 years, in just about every lecture I would point out error from truth, and having studied Hebrew and N.T. Greek would disagree with the lecturers. Also everyone had a turn at preaching in chapel every morning. 85% of students came from Africa. I cannot even bring myself to share the heresies that were preached. And all this gold dust and jewels and gold teeth and shaking, jumping, and barking malarchy was positively encouraged! Anyone could prophesy during worship time in the chapel! Not once did I hear any of the faculty decry some of the blatent false prophecies that were uttered, nor was any attempt made to control those that were ‘out of control’. My God is a God of order, not chaos, and I was amazed at what I witnessed going on in a Bible College with a seemingly good reputation! Also some students saw visions of serpents on their beds etc. etc. and some, after receiving prayer, from that day on experienced terrible nightmares. I drew the faculty’s attention to some of the weird stuff that was going on, but nothing was ever done! One woman claimed to have a deliverance ministry. She said she pulled snakes from people’s inner being and took them into her stomach, then had to fast for 5 days to get rid of these demonic beings – and she claimed the Lord had given her such a ministry! What utter tosh! Needless to say she was African and some of her prayers bordered on superstition and witchcraft. I can’t believe Christian students are so gullible (aged from 19 to 78 years). Where is the gift of discernment in the Church? Truly we need to hear the full counsel of God being preached like never before. I pray the Lord would give me boldness to keep speaking the truth without compromise, even though I am shunned by most Christians. I believe in repentance and holiness – not all this ‘cake, flake and bake’ nonsense that has been preached for the last 15 years. Lord please wake up your church and raise up those who will preach Your Truth without compromise. Amen.

  26. June

    I too worry about some of the Deliverance ministry and the teachings that abound. I asked for biblical foundations for some of the teachings and never been given complete answers. Don’t get me wrong, I strongly believe that it is part of our calling as disciples of Jesus to heal the sick, cast out demons, raise the dead (not done that yet!). I am still undecided whether we need to do renunciations against spirits of Baal, Jezebel, spirits of pride, death and hell, necromancer, witchcraft etc. I wonder if anyone can find reasons to support this – I am struggling.

    Even some of the teaching on the impact and the expelling Kundalini takes on a whole myriad of “techniques, prayers, renunciations etc.”, then the whole generational curses teachings.

    Any help would be much appreciated.

  27. Kaz , you are on the right track when you are looking for a clear biblical foundation. If it is not taught in the bible then you do not “need” it. Where do they get that stuff from is the question.

  28. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    june – i hear the truth in what you have shared – i sorrow that this has become more ‘normal’ than not in the ‘body of CHRIST’ – we have LOST OUR WAY – God have mercy on the foolish ones, the young ones, the unknowing ones….this is what GRIEVES me the most – as with the vision that DL shared – what of the IMMATURE?? what are we ALLOWING to go unchallenged in the pulpits – in the ‘bible schools’?? i realize that there is only so much we CAN do as we do NOT have much ‘access’ to be able to tell them the truth but what we have, WE MUST USE. and we must pray…….

    i am sickened and horrified by what is ‘promoted’ to these that know no better – i KNOW that the Word of God declares that the LORD gives those that LOVE deception over to it, but i ALSO believe there are those that simply DO NOT KNOW and trust what they are being told and i pray for MERCY for these…..AND A SUPERNATURAL REVELATION FROM GOD AS TO THE TRUTH!!!!
    amen and amen
    and kaz, your heart seems so sincere in what you are seeking to understand and to have discernment about. i do not feel ‘qualified’ to direct you in this but i pray that the LORD will lead you into ALL truth and that if there are those here that can help you with understanding how the LORD would have you deal with these in a truly Biblical way that brings glory to HIM, then i pray they will SPEAK UP!!
    i have much the same difficulty. demons should be dealt with – the LORD dealt with them, as did paul – but, some of this stuff seems ‘over the top’ and over-emphasizing of the things of the enemy – in MANY ways, i believe much more in the simple focusing on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and BELIEVING what HE HAS DONE and that according to HIS Word, we have been MADE FREE and to STAND upon HIS WORD – it is ALLLLL about Him and what HE accomplished for us, is it not?? simple faith in HIM seems much more Biblically sound than some of these ‘supposed ministries’……
    when they encountered demons – they dealt with them – cut and dried – no big HOOPLAH – and what june shared about the woman ‘taking the serpent’ into her body and then fasting to get rid of it is JUST PLAIN LIES – JESUS did it ALLLLLLLLL. let’s STOP making it about ‘us’ – this FOOLISHNESS does NOT glorify Him and it causes many to STUMBLE.

  29. In generations past the church saw that God had placed the power, authority and annointing ON THE WORD OF GOD and that power was activated when they believed in and placed their confidence in the Bible alone. Simple, untitled and unassuming humble men preached the Bible and relied solely upon it to be powerful and effective. These simple men never relied upon not trusted in any power or authority that rested upon themselves. They simply believed that THE GOSPEL ITSELF is the power of God.

    In the modern church everyone is seeking for power, authority and annointing UPON THEMSELVES. They seek for titles, gifts, power and annointings UPON THEMSELVES. God is looking for some simple soul who is fool enough for Christ that he is willing to believe in and have confidence in the Bible again.

    I like what Len Ravenhill has said, “One of these days some simple soul is going to read the Bible and believe in it and embarrass the rest of us.”
    We don’t need more so called annointed men in the church. We need men who will believe the Bible and are willing to go out armed with nothing more than faith in Gods Word alone. There is no limit to the power God will place on His Word for someone who is fool enough to believe it and preach everything it says.

    The devil loves and even promotes annointing on men. These are no threat to him. But he shudders with fear at the thought of a man who trembles a Gods Words . For he knows such a man will slay him in a single sermon.

  30. With regard to the topic article – please let us not distract ourselves about whether this is or isn’t a vision from God.

    The truth is written in scripture, and when the ‘one of no stature’ reads from scripture, as one with authority having the unction of the Holy Spirit, the serpent cannot prevail.

    John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    Also please let us note that it is the Living Word of God, Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour, who sets man free..

    Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

    In His love for all,

  31. Barry – Amen, we posted at the same time :-)

  32. The problem isn’t that the Bible is dead and has no power these days. The problem is that the church doesn’t believe in the power of the Bible!
    They believe it is dead so to them it is dead. Their unbelief nullifies the power of the Bible. God give us men who will activate Itje infinite power of the Bible simply by believing in it again!
    God said it. I believe it. That settles it!

  33. Pastor W.M. Hurt Sep 19th 2012

    I received this dream about the Church in January 2012…

    My Latest Dream from the Lord
    01/19/12 1:30ish A.M.

    Last night it happened again. The Lord visited my dreams with wisdom. It was surreal.
    The end times were upon us. Yet, by this point in the unfolding events, strangely to me at the time there were no riots or looting or panic. All the people everywhere had surrendered to the fact that there was nothing they could do about the fastly unfolding events on planet earth. They somehow knew their fate had been sealed – accept for a miracle there was no way out.

    While in the dream I never learned exactly what the cause of imminent destruction was, but quickly became aware of the weirdest kind of hope almost everyone had bought into.

    Strangely, all eyes were on this little American girl. It had become crystal clear to the world, she, for some reason, was one to look to for answers. I remember thinking. What? Are you kidding? Look to Jesus! Cry out to God! Don’t put your trust in man… especially a little girl. These times are too grave for the world to be preoccupied with looking to some little girl for answers.
    Being intrigued, I had to see this one whom the world so desperately looked to. I had to know why she was so important and what of her great wisdom? So I went to where she lived and as I entered her home, I noticed important leaders and dignitaries waiting to speak with her. They were anxiously waiting for her to come in from outside. They sat in silence impatiently looking toward the front window.
    I looked to see what they were looking at and finally caught my first glimpse of her. She was ten or eleven years old, hair in pigtails and wearing a pretty blue Easter type dress riding her bike in continued circles in the drive way. She was oblivious that anyone needed her attention or that she had answers to give them. I became very angry with her!
    My heart sank and quickly my fatherly dire arose. I thought; she needs a good setting straight! I went out and spoke with her. She barely acknowledged me and didn’t stop riding in circles. Then what little she did say, revealed she was a brat and absolutely clueless, immature and preoccupied with meaningless play.
    This was the girl the world looked to so intently and all she wanted to do was ride her bike and play with her games. She was upset that the other children who were gravely aware of the impending destruction refused to play with her. She was trite and spoiled and I cannot imagine anyone caring any less about what was going on around her.
    Though I remember other things of the dream; the choking of the air, the warmth of whatever was gripping earth, the increase of insects on a plague level and that look of “it is over” in everyone’s eyes – the clear focus was this little girl.
    It wasn’t till morning that I pondered its meaning. Was the little girl the Church? You decide.

    Pastor Wade Hurt

  34. Amen! In Moses generation, as in our current generation, everyone believed in signs and wonders and superbatural provision. But that entire perished except for two men: Joshua and Caleb. Why is that? Because they were the only two who believed in Gods Word!

    Abraham had seen God Almighty, had known the leading of the Spirit and had known divine provision but he wasn’t credited with righteousness UNTIL HE BELIEVED WHAT GOD SAID!

    God help us to believe what you say in your unchanging Book!

  35. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    barry – when i read what you wrote, i was overcome. the truth, the truth, the truth……
    roger – amen.

  36. Foolhardy Fred Sep 19th 2012

    Amen! This is so true. Genuine commitment to God and HIS WORD for the Right reason is what HE requires. So many deceived are going to hell falsely believing they are saved. What a tragedy.

  37. Martin Sep 19th 2012

    June, well hello. The last time we spoke was about sport way back.

    I too went to Bible college for a few months back in the late eighties, although not in the UK, and found just the same things. Africans abounded, complete with doctrines of demons and all manner of odd things appearing as apparitions. Quickly got out of there, yet that same school is delivering people into the pastorate.

    May God help us all!

  38. Foolhardy Fred Sep 19th 2012

    Who is less likely to respond to the Gospel message than those who have been deceived into believing falsely that they are already saved. The wholesale apostasy that has spread throughout the church is really the masterpiece of Satan.

  39. The vision certainly captures much of the compromise that keeps people in chains/ bondage.

    I would , however warn that a self-righteous response to the vision could very quickly take a person into the same place that the vision warns of.

  40. Forgive me I’m on a roll and can’t stop until the Lord lets up on me.
    When men today lay their hands on us we speak in other tongues.
    But When God lays His hands on men they speak the Word of God boldly.
    “Wnd after they had prayed the place was shaken and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and BEGAN TO SPEAK THE WORD OF GOD BOLDLY”
    Acts 4:12
    God lay your hands upon the church once again and send us out to preach YOUR WORD ALONE!

  41. Seems biblical and clear this vision, and bears none of the spiritual elitism of the Rick Joyners of the church world….If I may say so, I like the overall tone of people’s responses too. They seem mature… gives me hope! I looked at the other visions linked near the top of the feedback. They seemed fine as well. It seems like people who do not fancy themselves *prophets* and simply are trying to follow Christ and hear His vice, have more clear understanding and vision/gifting than those who have separated themselves as some kind of spiritual elite. Bless you all…I believe the Lord is at work purifying His remnant!

  42. Yes the church is going round and round.

    Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, then we stop there, the context of the verse is “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge of the law. The law is the Torah or instructions of God (YHWH). When will the christian church realize it is not about us but about Him. As Revelation says “If you love me, obey My commandments”. What are the commandments, the keeping of the Sabbath, using the correct name YHWH, keeping the feasts of YHWH, keeping the food instructions, reading and obeying His law (instructions). We the christian church do not read the front of the book, so do not understand who we are and so we can not understand the so called new testament. We are to get rid of pagan festivals, christmas and easter these are abominations they have their roots in child sacrifice. WAKE UP and come out of Egypt, remove your dirty clothes and put on white garments by hearing and obeying My Commandments. Please watch “Passion for Truth”and “119 Ministries ”

  43. Andrew Sep 19th 2012

    Yes, Val – this always seemed a very sound and biblical vision to me also.

    And very encouraging of true Scriptural boldness!

    Bless you,


  44. Peter H Sep 19th 2012

    Someone mentioned about Wendy Alec prophesing in the past which could have been acceptable. Having seen her and Rory doing the Missions Week on God TV today and they are covering this for the rest of the week, her and her husband’s spoken prophecies so far have not been fulfilled.
    This evening both were prophesing what God was going to do and during the course of their utterances were requesting viewers to send in their donations and gifts to keep God TV functioning. They kept speaking gibberish sentences, presumed to be speaking in tongues, but no interpretations. A few days ago Benny Hinn was on God TV recommending the channel to be watched. His programme contained what God was going to do.
    This is nothing but false teaching and their prophecies have nothing to do with Almighty God. And yet, they have a large following and gullible viewers who dispose of the incomes to them. This is counterfeit and has nothing to do with the Good News of Jesus Christ.
    Other so called christian tv stations have been having share-a thon to raise money, and of course, you are enticed to sow your financial seed (to them) to get God’s blessing. What a load of tosh!
    People are surrounded by these charlatans who are accepted to be God’s “anointed” ones and christians actually believe that they are.
    The Word of Faith leaders are just as bad as the charismatic leadership and the sitaution is going from bad to worse as the End Times progresses.
    The current Pontiff of the RC Church will be replaced due to ill health and so forth.
    Who will become the next Pope awaits to be seen but brethren are already talking about him being the last Pope who could be the False Prophet as the RC church connections with other major religions is expanding rapidly under the title of peaceful co-existence.
    Believers are sharing amongst themselves on what time remains in preaching the Gospel message where the counterfeit message has established itself within the church system and elswhere.
    I believe now is the time to seek the Lord while He can be found.
    Praise the Lord for His Word and salvation!
    Further comments would be appreciated.

  45. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    joy – we are NOT israel….we are called to keep the ‘law of Christ’ – not the Law of Moses…..even the LORD Himself did not ‘keep the Sabbath’ as was decreed……the Lord Jesus Christ IS our Sabbath Rest – ‘come unto Me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest…….’ and what did the LORD Himself say??? what ‘sums up’ the Law and the Prophets???
    ’37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[e] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

    the Lord Jesus FULFILLED the law FOR us – our simple child-like trust in what HE HAS DONE is what is required of us AND if we DO believe – our lives WILL show it through our obedience to His commandments FOUND in the New Covenant, dear sister.

    if you do NOT keep the WHOLE law, then you are a transgressor of the WHOLE law…….

    i humbly submit this to you – please hear my heart and not turn this into some sort of ‘war’…….

  46. Ibelieve Sep 19th 2012

    If anything this vision describes the condition of the church world and its ministers today.

  47. Andrew Sep 19th 2012

    Sadly, yes.

    For the most part, I have to agree.


  48. DeWayne Sep 19th 2012

    It is strange, but apparently should have been expected, those of Mark 12:30 “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.”, tell of being so alone in the world of friends… even Christian friends.

  49. 2 Timothy 4:1-4

    “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.”

  50. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    DeWayne – i’m sorry. i don’t understand what you mean in your comment – could you elaborate??

  51. DeWayne Sep 19th 2012

    I wonder if anyone has experienced a problem causing me great trouble, certainly hearing a few others feeling so alone in these days. The trouble is with what calls itself the church of Christ, looking at most of these my heart grieves, wondering how I could spend an eternity with such.

  52. David Marsh Sep 19th 2012

    Hi one and all,
    2 Corinthians 3:6
    who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    Ties in directly with;

    ” …in extensive writings, argumentation and the like; but they only consider the” letter” of the Word, and leave out the “spirit” of the Word.”…..

    The above quoted text from the vision ( I believe ) nails the core problem of the whole ‘Christian’ scene. And it also lines up directly with 2 Cor. 3:6.

    From my own research and study, the Christian world has largely ignored the Person of Christ – and the leaders have run off with His black and white written (logos) word with their own agendas. This is the sin which has become most intolerable for our Lord.

    The pattern of Christ and the Word of God all point to the pursuit of every – disciple of Christ – to maintain a permanent and personal audience with our Master. It has to be His Voice that we listen to and follow. And not that of any man.

    This is a foundational plank, central to the inner workings of the God designed N.T. ekklesias.
    Because, an in depth study will show you that the N.T. apostles, being led by the Spirit of God, taught the N.T. Christians how to hear and be led by the Spirit of God.

    If you do not have this foundational plank you do not have Christ.

    The N.T. scriptures actually contain the exact explanation on how to correctly hear His voice.
    If anyone is interested in a pdf file on my 10 years of research on this, I would be more than happy to send it to you.
    [email protected]

    God bless you all

    David Marsh.

  53. My Dear David Marsh,
    In Luke 24 when Jesus Himself appears to the two men on the road to Emaus after His resurrection He could have encouraged their faith by simply saying, “fellas here I am.” But he didn’t do that. Instead he rebuked them for their stubborn refusal to believe the Bible (the Law and the Prophets) and then patiently took them through the Bible starting with Moses and showed them HIMSELF in the Bible. Jesus did this because he wanted their faith to be rooted and established in the Bible and not in His physical Presence!
    Why did Jesus place all of their attention, focus and hope in what you call the “letter” and what you seem to mistakingly believe is a plank to believe in the Bible’s power and veracity to save. If you are correct then younare saying that Jesus had a plank. My friend you are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God . Jesus always wanted his followers to believe in the Bible more than anything else- even more than His own physical presence.
    The Holy Spirit places the same emphasis on the Very words of the Bible. When men were filled with the Spirit in the Book of Acts they spoke the very words of the Bible because the Bible is the Holy Spirits mother tongue!
    The apostles held the very same view of the Bible. Peter said.”we were on the sacred mount and we heard the audible voice of God and we saw Jesus glory with our own eyes “But we have the Word of the Prophets MADE MORE CERTAIN.”
    You my friend have believed the lie of this generation that the Bible itself is impotent. The problem isn’t that the Bible is impotent my friend. the problem is that you don’t BELIEVE IN ITs power to save, heal or deliver. Paul said , “I am not ashamed of the gospel ( the Bible) because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes.”
    Your unbelief in the written words of the Bible is nullifying its power to help you. The children of Isrealhad the same unbelief in Gods word you do. They had the Word justa s you do. But it did them no good because they didnt have any faith in it. (see Hebrews 4:1-2) Start to believe in the Bible the way Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the apostles believed in it and it will hold the same power for you as it did for them my friend! Please tell me that you really don’t havemore confidence and faith in your subjectively hearing the voice of the Spirit than you have in Gods inspired text???? The Bible says, ” He who trusts in himself is a fool”
    Barry Schmidt

  54. This unbelief in the Scriptures is the prevalent sin of the modern church. The Word of God is no longer honored as our fathers honored it. The reason the men in the vision being discussed had no courage to preach the whole. Ourselves of God is BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD!
    Abraham our father in the faith is a man of the Book. When Abraham spoke to the rich man who was in Hades and who wanted Abraham to send someone to warn his brothers Abraham replied, “They have Moses and prophets. Le them listen to them.” to which the rich man in Hades ( who is remarkably like our generation) said, “No Abraham, but if someone from the dead warns them they will listen.” to which our father in the faith replied , “if they don’t listen to Moses and the Prophets they will not listen even if someone rises from the dead.” Abraham is a man who believes in the Bible and who believes that belief in the very words of the Bible are the foundation of our faith.
    In Eph 4:11-16 the MAIN PURPOSE of the five fold ministry is ” to bring the church to the unity of THE FAITH” whatis “THE FAITH”? The faith is the Bible! “the faith that was ONCE FOR ALL HANDED DOWN TO THE HOLY APOSTLES”
    The true five fold ministers are MEN OF THE BOOK !!!!

    Revival didn’t come with tears and repentance in Nehemiah’s day until EZRA OPEND THE BOOK AND READ FROM IT ! This is what the Holy Spirit says to this generation, “True revival will not come to this generation UNTIL MY BOOK IS OPENED AND HONORED ONCE AGAIN AMONG MY PEOPLE”

  55. Philip Morrill Sep 19th 2012

    WOW! This is so true. I can really relate to what was shared in this vision. I have seen so much of this that all I can say is AMEN! Lord, raise up more of those who are willing to preach the Truth, no matter what the consequences. Give them a holy boldness that will not shrink back, and fill their mouths with the truth that can set men free, not what itching ears want to hear.

  56. Jeff M, you ask where do they get this stuff. The answer that I have heard most often is personal revelationl The question is therefore did all revelation end with the Bible. for me yes and no as the Lord does still reveal Himself to us. The difficulty is, ( and this is dodgy ground I admit up front) do we say that it has to be found in tbe Bible – which is my preferred stand point, or does it not have to contradict the Bible. Andrew probably knows more about prophecy than most of us here, and knows the excesses. But the excesses do not undermine the fact that prophesy does exisit. The whole tithing i another area, is tithing biblical – well yes as it is defined in the Bible, but is tithing taught in accordance with biblical teach undoubtedly not.Law of Jesus not low of Moses as someone wrote earlier

    Deliverance is in the Bible. getting into long conversations with them, finding their names identifying the legal rights, identifying all the point.times in your life where the demonic found a right to enter i do not know! I do not know if anyone has been able to minister to victims of SRA, the things that come up, the various parts that have been created to help the victim cope are truly awful. I have never yet heard or come across anyone who has been able to successfully minister to anyone in a few minutes, or evening or month or more. And the Bible is not a step by step deliverance manual. Just trying to make sense of it al – any advice much appreciated

  57. To Barry and others

    The problem with those proclaiming on christian tv is that they quote scripture out of content, stare directly at the cameras to those viewing, say what is said comes from God and of the Spirit, to declare that they have been anointed to say what is said, and to expect everyone viewing, especially their followers, to carry out their instructions. This is an occult practice called hypnosis and very suggestive.
    This has nothing to do with the Word of God and is just part of the Great Deception which to those with discernment, will be evident in the Last Days.
    Having said that, the modern western christian church has become saturated with false teachings and prophecies, and of course, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, have been replaced by the counterfeit of occult practices.
    The Word of God applied to these things exposes what lies underneath where deception is ripe. If only people, and christians, read the Bible for themselves, with the pray of God’s wisdom opening their eyes to His Word and instructions, then He will reveal Himself to themselves. But alas, in the christian church of the 21st century, people prefer to have their ears tickled. And to chase up signs and wonders to wet their appetites.
    I thank the Lord for brother Andrew Strom for taking on board the vision he kindly shared, And the previous topics that have been discussed and commented on this web site.
    Those embracing the biggest cult on earth called the Roman Catholic Church are in for a big surprise as the Emerging Church is leading people within the christian church astray. Cults remain as cults and do not change. This is similar to the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints, commonly known as Mormons, and the Watchtower Society known as Jehovah Witnesses.
    When one sees the elected Mormon Repuiblican Party candidate Mitt Romney for the presidency of the United States of America having Roman Catholic Paul Ryan his deputy, and whereby both Republicans belong to major cults, do those in the christian church realise what they are doing in voting for them at the country’s presidential election in November?
    Then of course the USA has Barack Hussein Obama to contend with who is aiming to attract muslims and christians to keep him in power.
    A two party system which is corrupt and misleading people is at the forefront whereby the electorate is expected to cast their vote for the lesser of the two evils – whoever that may be!
    But then, what is proof of the goose, is proof of the gander. as the saying goes!
    It is the Body of Christ who are following the Lord Jesus Christ that are preaching the Good News. It is the Body of Christ who read the Word of God and act upon it who are leading people to Christ. It is the Body of Christ who are giving warning to those who are operating within the christian church posing as teachers and prophets but are false. It is the Body of Christ who are servants of the King who are getting His work done.
    The rest are just playing the game of religion to get attention, and man made movements who are and keep misleading people into calling themselves christians but in reality are not spirit filled born again believers, and who do not understand what biblical repentance is about.
    Well, at least we have got to this so far with more to come as the Last Days are being fulfilled before our very eyes.
    The question is who will stand up and be counted worthy of following the Lord Jesus Christ as the ecumenical and emerging church leads onto the False Church which is there for all to see concerning religion?
    Time is short and I believe the Lord is revealing who are His and who are not in these End Times. Salvation is not cheap and put as a package deal with trimmings added as a bonus.
    REPENTANCE is what it means and there can be no substitutes!
    I will ask as others have already requested – care to cooment in what I have shared.
    The Lord bless you and Shalom!

  58. Foolhardy Fred Sep 19th 2012

    “But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” -1 Peter 1:25

    “…Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” – Mark 16:15

    This Word is, of course, The Logos.

  59. I am thankful that I attend a church where the pastor teaches the whole Bible, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. It took 14 years for the first time through, and how he is in Psalms again. I will take this to topical sermons anyday.

    Pastor Joe does something unusual. He writes all his studies, word for word. They are posted on the internet. If anyone is interested, do a google search for Calvary Chapel Manitowoc Wisconsin (or

  60. David Marsh Sep 19th 2012

    Dear Barry,
    Your regard for the Word without the Holy Spirit is noted.

    God bless you

    David Marsh.

  61. Graham Sep 19th 2012

    As far as I am concerned those religious zealots who keep saying that I need deliverance ministry because they suspect that demons are influencing me due to questioning groups such at the Charismatic Movement and Word of Faith, can I take this opportunity to say that I have repented of my past involvement with the occult, asked the Lord Jesus for His forgiveness of my sins, accepted Him to be my Lord and Saviour, and have been born again and spirit filled.
    I have never heard of such rubbish to those who watch the God Channel, like to hear Rory and Wendy Alec and the likes of Morris Cerullo. Mike Murdoch, and Benny Hinn and company without questioning the false teachings and prophecies proclaimed which people accept without discernment because they are considered to be “anointed ” by God and they are His “anointed.” Hmm…something does not add up in what they preach on tv and at their organised rallies and conferences?
    Yes, the western church is up the creek and will remain that way.
    It has been the Body of Christ who has helped and encouraged me. My worst enemies are those hiding in and using the christian church preaching another gospel and expect me to follow and pay them for services rendered. It has gone beyond a joke.
    And yes, for deliverance ministry, I should go to Ellel Grange
    It is a good job that I spoke to christians who had attended Ellel Grange. Their reports said that Satan was repeated spoken about and those leading the sessions centred on being demon possessed. They came out far worse before they went in.
    What Ellel Grange do is that they charge customers for attending and people can stay for the duration by booking in and paying certain fees for being a temporary resident at the Grange/ their other properties owned, or paying B/B at nearby guest houses or lodging at hotels.
    See this link on what lies behind Ellel Grange Ministries
    Like with many ministries run as businesses, they are short of money. So like with the God Channel they have financial appeals.
    Deliverance ministries to make money sell dvds, cds, and publish books to get attention.
    I wonder, would either the Lord Jesus and His apostles charge for services given when ministering to those in need, healing the sick, and so forth.
    He never charged me.!

  62. Jim

    Fantastic resource, I was actually looking for good commentary on the book of Romans! Bingo!!! Thank you

    The thing is, I think that the Lord has been telling me to do this as well, so many other things to talk about that this has been put on the back burner. Ok Lord, i get the message!


  63. The Bible is God’s love letter to us. The Bible is God’s book about Himself and His dealings with man. Jesus is our model. He came to show us how to live and He came to be our life. As our model He lived in absolute total dependence on the Father for everything and we can only live like that if we know that He came to live His life in us so that He is the only explanation of what happens through us.
    Jesus was never deceived nor had the “fear of man”. The more we allow Him to live in us by His Spirit the more we will walk as He walked.

  64. Graham

    I really struggle with Deliverance Ministry big time over the years we have built some very links with deliverance ministries in the US and their mirror ministries over in the UK.

    Like you I have asked the Lord for forgiveness, accepted Him as Lord and Saviour, filled with the Holy Spirit. I have often challenged people about the generational side of things, I have challenged the spiritual warfare claiming the lands, the skies, the waters etc, I have challenged the need to fight against voodoo, challenged teaching on Mithraism, necromancer Spirits, fighting against Witchcraft, fighting against the curses that people put on us (allegedly). I question why some Spirit filled Christian are continuously under attack years after they have gone through ministry. for me none of it makes sense if we believe. I do not recall in Scripture anywhere where it says Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess apart from that spirit that you have given legal right to, that part of your life that has happened in the past where a spirit is residing in his dark closet a bit like Harry Potter under the stairs, or maybe somewhere down my generational lines going back to Adam and Eve a spirit has legal right to remain because he is a legalistic. For goodness sake, there is going to be one judgement and that will come. if we are not free (allegedly) of demons then there is something wrong with us – Jesus Christ is Lord, he has stamped on beaten Satan. Does that mean he lies down ( although if he was a serpent he would!), of course not he is fighting for our souls. But isn’t this where Jesus came in so that every one who believes in Him will not be lost but have eternal life… and came to bring us a life of abundance ( not prosperity as often taught) the the devil all he does is steal, kill and destroy.

    Sorry, I am getting a little frustrated with myself. Like Peter, I proclaim, Lord you know everything ( including the time when I promised to stand beside you, you the Christ, the Son of the Living God and yet I denied you in front of servant girls) and still i say I love you Lord.

    Either God is all Omnipotent, Omnipresent or He is not. I really really wish that someone would provide some teaching about this that is biblical.

    Andrew, if you read this, can you help??

    The only decent write up I have seen is a this site:

    Any comments

  65. ValleyAnt Sep 19th 2012

    I’ve read about half these comments so far and decided to stop for now as I must get ready for work.

    The theme running through this particular topic is discernment; timely. The Lord, just several days ago, told me to begin studying what true and authentic prophetic ministry is and looks like. I didn’t know where to start, but I’d happened to get a book that same day which the Lord said to start in– not a book about the prophetic but about the battle for truth and ‘discernment in an age of deception’. After all the stupidity I’ve seen in the prophetic since ’98, I wanted to flee from it at full gallop like Elijah did from Jezebel. However, the Lord knows there’s still true prophetic ministry. After 15 years of dodging and avoiding anything called prophetic, it’s now time for me to learn about God’s own authentic and pure prophetic ministry.

    This leads to what I want to say about discernment: there are different types and levels of discernment. While I’ve been able to easily discern certain things (heart issues, motivations, words of knowledge on people’s past and why they act or believe as they do, etc.), it hasn’t at all been easy for me to discern which prophecies are of God and which aren’t (though knowing the heart of the person helps, however, God prophesies also through the wayward in heart like Balaam). God is in the process of leading me away from what I’ve been accustomed to in discernment and into new types of discernment, firstly regarding the prophetic, a subject I never wanted to get involved with because of the false and undiscerned prophetic.

    I believe that discernment is a primary need in all things pertaining to life and godliness but that we also need to be aware that there are different types of discernment, understanding each other’s different discernment gifts and seeking ourselves to have discernment where we ourselves lack. And that’s all for now.

  66. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    thank you for answering me. i ‘think’ i understand, at least partly, what you are saying….
    i will say this – i have experienced great loneliness in the years since ‘coming out of the deception’….sometimes i have felt absolute despair at the hopelessness of finding ‘fellow believers’ who REALLY walked in the light… is hard – even now – i was estranged from family members, as well as ‘friends’…..we do have a small fellowship that we are part of now and i have a bit more hope – but, truthfully, i cannot say that i have found ‘kindred hearts’ in the Lord. we live in the predominantly ‘baptist bible belt’ and church is a ‘social function’ moreso than ever a ‘spiritual’ one to most it truly seems. having grown up down here, i KNEW the ‘lay of the the land’ but having spent 21 of my adult years in new england, i had experienced something different and knew that there WAS more….i absolutely ACHE sometimes to be a TRUE part of His Body – to be in a place of knowing that i am in the midst of those that love HIM with absolute abandon and total commitment….i DO have a couple of ‘sisters’ from back in the day(they live FAR away) that the LORD has allowed me to keep contact with and these relationships bolster me and give me HOPE – but, i still LONG for the ‘day to day’ involvement with the true ‘body of Christ’ – i personally CANNOT wait to be among the ‘redeemed’ in heaven, dewayne, because i KNOW that whoever is there WILL be right in heart and true reflections of HIM – i just long to see HIM – i know that all else WILL be made right when i look upon His face.
    thank you for sharing your heart – i’m sure i don’t ‘see’ everything that you are trying to convey but i am always encouraged to see people actually SPEAK up about what they are dealing with.

  67. To hear the whole counsel of God join us live on the weekends @

    Matthew 24:13-14

    “But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”

  68. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    perhaps i am not understanding…i have read what david marsh posted and i have read what barry posted and i am somewhat ‘confused’ about the ‘issue’ here???

    is david saying that the Word of God is NOT ‘key’ to our walking out this ‘salvation’?? or, is barry saying that it ISN’T about the ‘person of the LORD JESUS CHRIST”??

    or am i completely MISSING THE POINT? because i believe it is BOTH…..

    the Word of God IS the LORD JESUS. we aren’t talking about His ‘flesh and blood’ personage, are we?? the Word of God is ABSOLUTE in all ways and ABSOLUTELY imperative to our ‘being trained and conformed to His image’ – if we set aside the Word of God, we head off into ‘deception land’ as is going on right now! BUT, the person of the LORD JESUS CHRIST is WHO we are called to worship – who we are called into DAILY RELATIONSHIP with – He IS a person – this IS a ‘relationship’ and NOT simply the ‘study of the Word of God’ – is it not the ‘job’ of the Holy Spirit to open our eyes to the Word? to ‘lead us into all truth’ – CONFIRMING the Word of God in our lives as He ‘teaches us”?

    i know i am speaking ‘simplistically’ here, but, sometimes, honestly?? i think we ‘debate’ about things that have no real basis……it is NOT ‘just’ the written Word – it IS the written Word made ALIVE by the Spirit of God…..and when we pray – are we talking to the Bible?? – no, we are talking to the GOD of the Bible – the Living Word – Jesus Christ – are we not??

    perhaps i simply don’t understand these ‘deep things’ – i believe in the ‘faith of a little child’ – i believe in it more today than EVER before – my eyes are on Him and i ask Him to teach me FROM His Word – but the HOLY SPIRIT will NEVER contradict or take away from the revealed Word of God – so, what is the debate then???

    as i said, perhaps i simply don’t SEE what is actually being said here. is it the LOGOS vs. the SPIRIT?? God forbid!! are there those that are ‘setting aside the Word of God’?? i KNOW there are in ‘charismania land’ and i shudder to think of those saying they are ‘led by the Spirit in ‘their revelations’ that CLEARLY oppose the Word of God…….


    kaz – amen, brother – i hear your dilemma – i truly truly do and i know that the LORD desires to bring you CLARITY and He WILL, in Jesus’ name – He will.

  69. Thanks for your kind response David and Great questions Debylynne.
    I could use many passages of Scripture to answer our questions but I will stick with The Eph 4:11-16 passage since it has already been referenced.
    In this passage it teaches us that the MAIN PURPOSE and FINAL OBJECTIVE of the fivefold ministers is “that we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God”
    First of all as I have already mentioned “the faith” here is referring to the complete body of knowledge that was once for all handed down from our Lord to His holy apostles ( that means ” the faith” is THE BIBLE. So the the unity of the faith comes first and is foundational to the knowledge of the Son of God. When people attempt to know Jesus apart from first knowing the Bible they will be led into deception regarding him. The pursuit of intimacy without the pursuit of the full counsel of God in the Bible always leads to the hocus pocus doctrines about Jesus that we are seeing in the charismatic church today. On the other hand having a complete accurate knowledge of the Bible is never to be pursued apart from intimaacy with the Son of God. So the goal of the five fold is both the unity of the faith AND the knowledge of the Son of God. You can never divorce Jesus from the Words of the Bible being taught and handled and interpreted accurately in the light of their original context and purpose. The Scriptures are GODS PRIMARY MEANS of revealing Jesus to us. Jesus said, “These (The Scriptures) are they which testify of me.” When men attempt to know Jesus in other less reliable and authoritative means than the Bible (ie they trust more in subjective personal revelations of Jesus than the only inspired revelation of Jesus which is the Bible) they always end up in heresy and in worshipping idols ( false perceptions of Jesus and the Father).
    The rampant idolatry in the charismatic media and church circles today is A DIRECT RESULT OF ABANDONING THE BIBLE AS THE PRIMARY MEANS OF KNOWING JESUS!

    We need to get back to ancient Book and back to ancient cross if we in our generation are going to know the Jesus of the Bible and if we are going to steer this apostate generation back to the faith. Paul didn’t say in the last days people would abandon their pursuit of knowing Jesus. He said, “in the last days people will abandon THE FAITH”!!! The faith is the Bible. People have abandoned the Bible not with their lips ( for they still give lip service to the authority of the Bible) but they have abandoned the Bible in their hearts. They no longer trust in and have confidence in the Bible alone as the primary means of knowing Jesus and the salvation that comes through Him alone.
    Hope that clarifies to you Deb and all who read this

  70. To attempt to divorce Jesus from the complete canon of Scripture is like trying to separate a person from their voice and from their word and from their heart. I have never met Andrew Strom personally. Yet I know him and trust him deeply. Why can I say that? Because I know his word and his word reveals his heart to me. And based upon his word alone i have come to trust him deeply. On the other hand if I spent my entire life in his household but i never heard his word I would not be able to know his heart or trust him. It is Andrews words that reveal his heart and his personality to me.
    It is no different with Jesus. The Bible is Jesus Word. It reveals His heart, His purposes, His personality and His glory to us. Try to divorce Jesus from the Bible and you have another Jesus. Try to divorce the Holy Spirit from the Bible and you have another Spirit. divorce salvation from the Bible and you have another gospel. Divorce the Bible from an apostle and you have a false apostle , a deceitful workman and a messenger of Satan!

  71. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    thank you, barry. i will examine what you have shared here and seek understanding from the LORD. i do appreciate your patient sharing with me in what you believe.
    thank you again!!

  72. Where is the centrality of the complete words of the Bible in the “new” charismatic apostles and prophet’s lives? Where is the centrality of the cross in their preaching and teaching? I have traveled the world over attending their conferences for over 30 years and never did I hear the systematic teaching of the content of the complete Bible and rarely was the cross even mentioned except in some vague and nebulous manner in order to secure some fleshly desire in this life.
    Because the Bible is conspicuously absent the Jesus of the Bible has been redefined. The Holy Spirit of the Bible has been redefined . The gospel as preached in the Bible and what it means to be saved has been redefined. We have another Jesus, another spirit and another gospel being promoted by another apostles and prophets.

  73. DebyLynne thanks for your comments. For me there is so much debating going on and that is good as we are to told to prove everything (KJV) test everything (NIV). The battles may be in the mind, in the theologies of individuals, dominations but primarily in the mind where we are told to renew our minds, that we have the mind of Christ. And Jesus only did what he saw the Father do, and did He not pray for us saying Joh 17:21 MKJV ” that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me.” Bearing in mind that there have always been descenting voices, even Jesus had them so much in fact that they led Him to the cross.

    The vision that started all of this the fact that for what ever reason we are not the disciples we are meant to be, whether we are in leadership in ministry or leaders in the community. Somewhere along the line within the last century or so, seeds of deception have been sown. Hmm interesting how perhaps the devil has better understood the parable of the seed than perhaps we have!! (oh that one is from me and not from the Lord!) We are in a place where prophecy as Gods voice to His people has often been substituted for a “good feel message,” where the setting the captives free as a simple command had become a complex series of teachings on deliverance with a myriad of teachings which come from God knows where.

    This worries me because for me having the mind of Christ, is not about theology or debating, but about being the vessel the Lord can use so that the Good News of Salvation, forgivenss from sin and the gift of eternal life is presented to all. And if the devil has been deceiving the Church, if people have been gullibly then the teachers are not primarily at fault – in my opinion because we ALL are respnsible for ourselves, each of us is going to have to account for our lives. I dread, perhaps that is too strong a word, maybe fear that when i stand before Him and say

    Mat 7:22-23 NIV ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ (23) Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

  74. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    barry – this last post is EXCEEDINGLY clear and i understand it completely and say amen and amen. you have hit a CORE truth smack dab on the head – this is the GREATEST of errors i believe, in what they do. in fact, it is simply THE ERROR – everything else comes from this ‘dark place’. i am surrounded by people that ‘set aside’ the Word of God – they substitute their ‘feelings’ and their ‘thoughts’ and their own OPINIONS for the Word of God – this did NOT happen all at once – but it has happened STEADILY and now, ANYTHING ANYONE wants to say ‘is GOD’ is given ‘credence’…… those that do NOT know/and or do NOT stand on the Word of God ALONE.
    the apostle paul declared’ “i determined to know nothing among you save JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED.” the central ‘theme’ of the GOSPEL – the ‘cross of Christ’ and what HE did there FOR us – amen and amen and amen – there is NO greater truth – NO greater revelation – NO greater freedom than THIS……and those that say there is are either deceived or deceivers, i fear.

  75. Traveler Sep 19th 2012

    Been thinking about this a bit and the question to ask is what exactly is that sword that the established leadership was so afraid of.

    The answer that comes to mind is Mammon. The power and prestige and worldly recognition. It is the same sword that swings over the world of academia.

    It would seem that it is the no accounts that have nothing to protect that will be carrying out the work of setting the captives free thus opening up and exposing the cowardly workers of the harvest to the sword and the destruction it wields

  76. debylynne Sep 19th 2012

    kaz – all i can say is amen and amen, my brother. i ponder on that verse you quoted a good bit – notice that the LORD declares ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU’ – so many ‘claim’ to ‘know the LORD’, but, my question is – does HE know you?? is HE intimately acquainted with all MY ways, as He was with david’s?? do i have an ongoing LIVING relationship with this KING OF KINGS?? is it just ‘head knowledge’ ABOUT Him and so many many other things…..or is it a REAL two-way relationship with this God who created us and loves us and has promised to change and transform us IF we will obey and allow Him to work in us through His Holy Spirit….
    this verse, perhaps more than any other, speaks to me of the RELATIONSHIP we are called to have with Our Lord – not ‘just’ following some steps or guidelines or laws of the Bible – not just having enough knowledge to think we can ‘operate’ in a ‘ministry’ – but face to face, heart to heart, nothing hidden relationship – where we FINALLY come to the place that we hold NOTHING back………we have the promise that ONE DAY, we WILL know, as we ARE known……but, that only applies to those that are TRUE disciples of Jesus Christ – and He knows who they are….


  77. Graham Sep 20th 2012

    The deliverance ministries fail to distinguish between possession and oppression. I was possessed before I became a born again christian and for those who say that I am still possessed using their termology as having a critical spirit over what I share and say, they themselves are delusional because they keep centering on Satan and demons rather than asking for discernment in the matter which is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
    I for them to keep saying that I must have something spiritually wrong with me because of exposing occult practices which are going on within the christian church, shows that they have no grasp of biblical teaching and God’s instructions in dealing with this.
    Any more encouraging comments on the matter.

  78. debylynne Sep 20th 2012

    as i am reflecting on what david marsh and barry have each shared, i went back to the ‘vision’ and looked again at the part that was referenced in david marshes’ post. i’m including it here with a little ‘more’ of it added.
    “The clergymen that you saw, are men (& women) from every church who pretend to know
    Me, but they teach My people things which are not written in the
    Book of life; and their pride and their presumption, and their wordly
    spirit force them to obey Satan, who is a liar and the father of lies;
    and each of the clergymen try and exceed the other in elegance,
    in extensive writings, argumentation and the like; but they only
    consider the” letter” of the Word, and leave out the “spirit” of the
    Word. And the day will come and now is at hand, when they
    shall all perish, just like these.”

    here is a bit of difficulty for me – in this part of the vision he says first, that ‘they teach My people things which are not written in the Book of life,’
    then, towards the end of the paragraph it is stated, “but they only consider the ‘letter’ of the Word, and leave out the ‘spirit’ of the Word.”

    well, i’m no scholar, but it seems plain that these are two DIFFERENT issues, entirely. or, perhaps, we are dealing with two different DECEPTIONS operating in different arenas??

    let me put it this way – we KNOW there are a MULTITUDE of false teachers and false prophets and false apostles who are ‘teaching people whatever they want’ – NOT the Word of God – their own ‘revelations’ supercede the Word of God in their minds….
    BUT, they are NOT

  79. debylynne Sep 20th 2012

    (sorry, accidentally posted!!)

    BUT, they are NOT considering the letter of the Word and leaving out the ‘spirit’ of the Word – quite the contrary – they are basically IGNORING the letter of the Word and saying it IS the Spirit they are following!

    the only other ‘group’ i can think THIS part applies to are those that DO try to follow the ‘letter of the law’ while ignoring the place and power of the HOLY SPIRIT in this Christian life – they seem to be the ones that are ‘having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof’ ……

    these cannot BOTH be the truth unless that are applying to two separate groups of error.


  80. kaz, I would like to talk about the questions raised but it is like it is not the first thing on God’s agenda. All I can say is , give up everything so that you CAN follow Jesus. We can find out that there are things that belong on the ” everything list” that we never even considered as a part of what The Lord meant. Jesus will build His church.

    Luke 14:33-35

    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    33 So then, any of you who does not forsake (renounce, surrender claim to, give up, [a]say good-bye to) all that he has cannot be My disciple.

    34 Salt is good [an excellent thing], but if salt has lost its strength and has become saltless (insipid, flat), how shall its saltness be restored?

    35 It is fit neither for the land nor for the manure heap; men throw it away. He who has ears to hear, let him listen and consider and comprehend by hearing!

  81. I quote from the vision in italics below:

    In front of the meeting hall was a large platform, with a pulpit on one side and a large cage on the other, with a huge green serpent in it; and hanging over where the speaker would stand, was a great sword suspended by two strings horizontally;

    And then the Voice sounded from the pulpit again, Who will declare the whole counsel of God? And then the second man in clerical robes arose as if he would step forward, and again the serpent uncoiled against him, and he tumbled back with fear and sat down and placed his Bible under his chair (hiding the Word). The serpent again touched the sword, and with the same remark said, I will kill you, if you obey the voice of God.

    And when he had finished, the old serpent stretched up to the edge of the sword and cut off one of the strings holding the sword in place, and the sword swung down and missed him and passed over his head; because he was a man of “little stature”;

    The sword which you saw, is the Word of God; and the strings on which it was hanging, mean the power of the Word to give life or the power of the Word to take life. Life was given to the man of little stature and life taken from the clergymen that did not preach My Word!

    but they teach My people things which are not written in the Book of life; and their pride and their presumption, and their wordly spirit force them to obey Satan, who is a liar and the father of lies; and each of the clergymen try and exceed the other in elegance, in extensive writings, argumentation and the like; but they only consider the” letter” of the Word, and leave out the “spirit” of the Word. And the day will come and now is at hand, when they shall all perish, just like these.


    The sword in the vision is said to be “the Word of God” – How can Satan cut the strings on “the Word of God” to bring death?


    Satan is the accuser of the brethren, he accuses them before the throne of God day and night – he uses the law, like a legal prosecutor, to bring accusations against us…


    How can we overcome him?


    They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony and they did not love their lives unto death…


    What does Satan hold over us if we are children of the Living God?


    Nothing – as we are under the Blood of the Lamb…


    Do we still serve in “the old way of the letter”, i.e. the law and keeping the law to be right with God or do we serve in “the new way of the Spirit”, i.e. being justified by Grace through the Blood of Jesus and experiencing the power of “for sin shall not be your master for you are under Grace and not under law”?


    Those who serve in “the old way of the letter” are still under Satan’s control in every area where they are serving in “the old way of the letter” and those who serve in “the new way of the Spirit” are free from the control of Satan in every area in which they are serving in “the new way of the Spirit”…

    Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?” Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. The angel said to those who were standing before him, “Take off his filthy clothes.” Then he said to Joshua, “See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you.” Then I said, “Put a clean turban on his head.” So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him, while the angel of the Lord stood by. (Zechariah 3:1-5 NIV)

    I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is. So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. (Colossians 2:1-15 NIV)

    If we stand up to preach in our own righteousness we will be brought down…

    If we stand up to preach in Christ’s Righteousness, covered in His Blood (Christ my Passover has been sacrificed) then we can boldly declare that we are Accepted in the Beloved by the Blood of Jesus and that we love Him with our entire lives on the basis of His Grace towards us…

    The enemy cannot stand against this testimony – against this confession of faith…

    for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:4 NIV)

    Love in the Lord,


  82. debylynne Sep 20th 2012

    i must confess that i am still not truly ‘receiving’ this ‘revelation’ or ‘vision’ – not because it isn’t TRUE in the revealing of deception, but because there SEEM to be things in it that do not ring ‘authentic’ as far as the Word of the LORD goes. i completely accept that i may be wrong and ‘missing it’ but i’ve got a ‘check’ of sorts about this and these days i refuse to ‘ignore’ it when i do. please don’t misunderstand – i may be just feeling uneasy with it because parts of it seem ‘contradictory’ or more ‘human’ than ‘divine’ in the wording, etc….i just know that SOMETHING bothers me with it.

    whereas the word that d.noakes gave that steve gave us the link to ‘jumped up and grabbed my heart’ (particularly the second link where it is taken from something he had shared in a book).

    why do we ‘need’ these ‘elaborate’ visions – the LORD has spoken to us PLAINLY in His Word – do we REALLY need all this to BELIEVE what we already KNOW to be going on??? sometimes, NOT always, but SOMETIMES, i honestly think that men use such ‘visions/words’ to exalt themselves – and, even if they DON’T intend to, i think it happens anyways….

    why not simply EXALT the Word of God itself for the Word of God declares it ALL, does it not??

    i know that andrew has placed this vision here and that he has stated that he believes it is of the LORD – i’m just not sure myself – at all……

    i suppose it would be very ‘nice’ if someone could tell me WHY we would ‘need’ this vision?? since the LORD does all things well and for HIS purpose??

  83. John S Sep 20th 2012

    I became a born again christian in 1970. The songs I enjoyed singing in this era were centred on the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Here is one song by the late Keith Green
    Here is another song of encouragement
    And the final one reflecting on the day of decision and seeking Him while we are able
    May the Lord bestow His rich blessings upon everyone.
    Until He comes!

  84. The second song which John S gave to encourage myself had no tune.
    Here is another link
    Every blessing in the Lord Jesus!!

  85. debylynne Sep 20th 2012

    last wednesday night they asked me to sing at our ‘church’
    i sang ‘there is a redeemer’ by keith and melody green…….lovely memories – lovely song – blessed me greatly simply REMEMBERING ‘that’ place. amen and amen. thank you all.

  86. David Marsh Sep 20th 2012

    My dear debylynne,
    ‘thank you, barry. i will examine what you have shared here and seek understanding from the LORD. i do appreciate your patient sharing with me in what you believe.’

    In any discussion it is best to have heard from both sides.

    To refer to the scriptures as black and white markings is an error on my part. If I have cast an aspersion on God’s written word I sincerely apologize.

    The point being made, in my previous discourse, is that the scripture becomes as black and white markings to those who exclude the Lord and use their own interpretations – when seeking for the deeper and real meaning of the Word.
    This method of excluding the Lord (the Holy Spirit) gave birth to the likes of the Mormons, the JW’s, the Gay Christian church, and every wind of false doctrine.

    “i will examine what you have shared here and seek understanding from the LORD.” This comment you made is precisely the exact point being made – by the scripture, and the above vision, and my previous blog.

    The Scripture is very precious – but without the help of the Holy Spirit ( the Presence and interactive Face of our God here on earth) we are open to decept

  87. David Marsh Sep 20th 2012

    My dear debylynne,
    ‘thank you, barry. i will examine what you have shared here and seek understanding from the LORD. i do appreciate your patient sharing with me in what you believe.’

    In any discussion it is best to have heard from both sides.

    To refer to the scriptures as black and white markings is an error on my part. If I have cast an aspersion on God’s written word I sincerely apologize.

    The point being made, in my previous discourse, is that the scripture becomes as black and white markings to those who exclude the Lord and use their own interpretations – when seeking for the deeper and real meaning of the Word.
    This method of excluding the Lord (the Holy Spirit) gave birth to the likes of the Mormons, the JW’s, the Gay Christian church, and every wind of false doctrine.

    “i will examine what you have shared here and seek understanding from the LORD.” This comment you made is precisely the exact point being made – by the scripture, and the above vision, and my previous blog.

    The Scripture is very precious – but without the help of the Holy Spirit ( the Presence and interactive Face of our God here on earth) we leave ourselves open to deception from the devil and (sadly) men.

    When Wigglesworth opened the Good book he always said ‘lets see what Father has to say” and he qualified that by also saying “some read the word in …….. but I read the Word in the Holy Ghost”. Wigglesworth was adamant in asking the Lord to reveal what HE was saying through His written word.

    That is the thrust of 2Cor. 3:6. Again, all ministry, including reading the Word of God, must be done WITH the help of God. By His indwelling Holy Spirit.

    (Otherwise you will be directed by another – into error.)

    The Spirit spoke to the prophets and gave the Word. This relationship with God by His Spirit is the ultimate goal. The Word – with the help of the Spirit- builds our relationship with Him.

    To those who build their own empires on the Word without God will be rejected by Him.

    We have to choose sides.

    God bless you

    David Marsh

  88. I love that verse… :-)

    who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Corinthians 3:6 NASB)

    Praise You Jesus… :-)

  89. Yes, this too is my understanding from scripture, that today we have those scriptures, however we need Lord Jesus to explain His words to us, through the Holy Spirit..

    The Word is Christ Jesus our Lord, He spoke and those words were written and recorded by Holy Spirit inspired men, for us to read.

    The Word of God, Christ Jesus, is God, and is the Creator – the words of scripture were spoken by Him, before man could hear, write, and read them.

    John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    John 1:14-17 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    In His love,

  90. Hallelujah!!!

  91. “The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD..”

    One is chaff and the other is wheat!

    Paul castigated the Corinthians because of their preoccupation with a multitude of doctrines, revelations, When will church goers realise God has spoken in these last days with one clear voice!

    Satan tempted Jesus with dreams and visions of how to obtain “victory” an easy way. Jesus replied “IT IS WRITTEN”!!: ANY person today who requires visions or dreams support their “walk” should awake from sleep to me this stuffis pandering to those who’s egos have been elevated to becoming self styled prophets!
    If you wish to study a dream or vision then THe Logos sup[plies plenty, with rjohn’s Revelation standing out. We add to that at our peril, shame God, the heathen laught at us for this, and with good cause.
    “This is my beloved Son Hear Him.”
    It is the receiving of the Holy Spirit , (Holy Ghost baptism The Anointing {Christos}The promise of the Father)
    that makes the written word “logos” become the “rhema” that is the two edged sword between our ears the living bread that came from Heaven Without that the written word is just that, -words on a page Open to a mirriad of different interpretations.- Its study led pre Paul ( Saul) to be be a murderer! The Holy Ghost Baptism is a MUST HAVE Bible says so! Jesus himself was thus annointed at his baptism – visibly audibaly!
    John later checked to see if ithe Spirit had remained on Jesus “Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. “Are you He or do we wait for another?” Luke 7 give the answer “Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard” Read the rest of the chapter and we belive waht Jesus said here about John Then turn to Mathew and see wher John declared ” 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
    Unfortunaly many today believe they know more than John the Baptist or Jesus himself!
    I have a dream that one day all the people of God shall speak with one voice – confessing with their mouths the pure Word of God .- The “confess: in Rom 10:9 is to covenant, assent, acknowlegde, in other word to say the same as!
    Pr Michael

  92. watchful Sep 20th 2012

    I see the Christian life not as a study of the bible, but as a journey, a walk in real time of following a Living Person, the Lord Jesus Christ, who alone is able to lead us home, as we carry our crosses, for which purpose His living word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path..

    And that He speaks to all His children, whether through the scriptures, through visions, dreams, or words, even living parables. He is not limited to any single way of communicating, nor does He only speak to a select few since He is no respecter of persons. Why, even we are living epistles.

    2Cr 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

    2Cr 3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

  93. Oops, did not realize I had posted twice was accidental had not finished
    My sincere apologies
    Pr Michael

  94. Barry said: “First of all as I have already mentioned “the faith” here is referring to the complete body of knowledge that was once for all handed down from our Lord to His holy apostles ( that means ” the faith” is THE BIBLE.”

    “Paul didn’t say in the last days people would abandon their pursuit of knowing Jesus. He said, “in the last days people will abandon THE FAITH”!!! The faith is the Bible.”

    Me: Have you read Hebrews 11? The scriptures contained therein gives us great examples of what faith IS, and nowhere do I read that ‘faith is THE BIBLE’.

    The word of God says: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

    By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

    Me: The bible cannot save us, but Jesus can! Put your faith in HIM!

    Barry said: “I have never met Andrew Strom personally. Yet I know him and trust him deeply. Why can I say that? Because I know his word and his word reveals his heart to me. And based upon his word alone i have come to trust him deeply.”

    The word of God says: Jeremiah 17:5-8

    “Thus says the Lord: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the Lord. For he shall be like a shrub in the desert, And shall not see when good comes, But shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, In a salt land which is not inhabited. “Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, And whose hope is the Lord. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit.”

    Psalm 118:8-9

    “It is better to trust in the Lord, Than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the Lord, Than to put confidence in princes.”

    Me: Only the Lord knows what’s inside the heart of men, what you wrote sounded nice, but it was not rooted in the truth of the scriptures, and if I were you I would be repenting and renouncing what I wrote!

    John 2:24

    “But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men, and because he needed not that any one should bear witness concerning man; for he himself knew what was in man.”

    Now if our perfect example Jesus didn’t trust himself to men, then how can we?

    We are called to love one another as Christ did, but not put our trust in each other, that’s why so many get led astray, we are to put our trust in GOD and Him alone!

  95. Joy – I agree with your posting 100%. Most Christians, if they do read their Bible, usually read mostly the New Testament (as churches tell them the Old Testament is irrelevant). This is another lie. All the first disciples, and Jesus, only had the O.T. and Jesus (Yeshua) frequently quoted from it. Jesus explained to the two men on the road to Emmaus everything written about Him in the O.T. (they were shadows, Jesus is the fulfilment of Torah). We must not neglect the Teachings (Torah) of YHWH. I strongly believe that no Christian should be celebrating the PAGAN festivals of Christmas and Easter, and Lent is man-made nonsense! The festivals of YHWH are prophetic and tell us where we are in the timeline of Elohim. I believe Yeshua will return to reign in His millennial kingdom around the time of the Feast of Tabernacles, and Yom Kippur is so important for us. This subject is far too deep to discuss on this website, but a careful study of the feasts has much to say to us today and how we are to prepare for His coming. There are many excellent books on Amazon explaining what the feasts mean. I can post titles should you wish it. Indeed, during the millennial reign, nations are summoned to appear in Jerusalem (His throne) during the 3 main festivals (Passover, Pesach & Succoth) – if these festivals are irrelevant (and O.T.), why does Jesus reinstate them during His millenial reign??? I think we should be keeping them – for reasons too numerous to mention – but YHWH says in Lev. 23:41 that ‘this regulation is to be kept by your descendants for all time to come’. If we are ‘in Christ’ we are also descendants of Abraham, so I believe these feasts apply to us, as well as keeping the Sabbath (note this does not mean us attending church on Sundays). The keeping of Shabbat does not just mean a ceasing from work, but means spending the whole day fully focussed on the Lord. This is the time when you commune with Him. This is the time when you become still enough for Him to commune with you. It is this communion that transforms your inner being. The more time you spend with Him, the more like Him you become. Allow the words of His book to transform you. Repent of any disobedience to any of His commands. It is His promise – He gives His Spirit to those who obey Him.

    Kaz – I have heard all sorts of things over the years regarding generational curses, witchcraft, curses etc. This is a massive subject, filled with much controversy. The only thing I can tell you to do is be obedient to the Bible. He gives His Spirit to those who are obedient. If we are fully submitted to God, He gives us His authority over demons, sickness, etc. I have been in the house of witches or people involved in the occult and have seen demons appear in front of my eyes. It took just one word from me (‘go’) to get rid of them. The reason for this, I believe, is that I was fully submitted to God and committed to obeying His commandments. Each day I ask Him to fill me with His Spirit and determine to follow His ways and to bring His kingdom to bear wherever I am going.

    I think the main trouble is caused when people try to become Christians at an ’emotional altar call’ – viz. there is little or no repentance. I think it should be made clear that when you give your life to God, you are no longer your own master, the ownership of yourself now belongs to God. When people are truly ‘born again’ of the Spirit of God they transfer kingdoms, they move from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. It is God’s responsibility to then finish the work He started in us. All that we have and all that we are belongs to the Lord. Our sole responsibility is to submit to Him in all things – not easy by any means – I frequently fail but keep on trying. Our God is faithful – He will not let us go. Just read the Bible, pray and ask the Lord to guide you. The Holy Spirit will convict you if you are doing something wrong, then we just have to repent and keep on walking in the Lord’s ways. As we renew our minds with scripture, wrong ways of thinking are corrected and the dross in our lives falls away. Over the years the Lord has dealt with me regarding many things. One year in particular I felt led to get rid of all secular music CD’s and even some Christian CD’s (as the words of the songs did not line up with scripture). It is also my responsibility to get rid of all malice and bitterness and be quick to forgive people when they do me wrong. If you keep your heart right, the enemy of our soul cannot find a breeding ground for his lies. I think we have to be determined to follow the Lord as an act of our will and the Lord will purge us of everything that is wrong, which takes time. Jesus became a curse for us so that we can walk in His blessing. Hope I am making sense! Focus on God and hearing His voice – not on Satan. Bless you.

  96. Paul B Sep 20th 2012

    What happens next after we have shared the comments given on this topic with our fellowships, churches, home groups, etc, and are rejected because members don’t accept or agree? And then we are told to listen to what the leadership says on something completely different, for example project work, how the attract bums on seats, sessions of how to be a prophet and become this and that in ministry, using the Alpha Course in getting people to come to meetings, and of course who leads what at the next organised meeting.
    The church I left due to being spoken down upon was more like a social club and everything was held in the church building – no going out to preach or to share the Gospel message. And the answer given was that God does not do this anymore, and then excuses given. Either one had to submit to the church leadership or leave.
    I am still in the wilderness because churches do not practice what they preach, and in many circumstances, only want to control the membership for the wrong reasons, and are failing to obey the commission given by Christ.
    But I am encourage by the Body of Christ. Sadly this is not reflected in today’s churches.
    Who cares anymore and are willing to stand up and be counted?

  97. Ibelieve Sep 20th 2012

    Luke 21: 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

  98. Brothers and sisters. The Bible clearly delineates a distinction between faith and “The faith” . Faith is trust and confidence in God as described in Hebrews 11. “The faith” with the definite article “”THE” in the Bible ALWAYS refers to the body of Christian doctrines in the Bible. Look it up for yourselves my friends.

    Also this notion that you can divide the Spirit from the Word is a bogus charismatic teaching that has absolutely no foundation in biblical reality. You can. O more separate the Spirit from His Word than you can separate oxygen from the air. THE ONLY THING YOU CAN SEPARATE FROM THE WORD IS POWER AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THAT IS BY FAILING TO BELIEVE IT! But you can nev separate the Spirit from the Bible which is the Spirits mother tongue!

    Their is so much babylonion nonsense in “the faith” of the church. Jesus said, ” Behold I am sending you scribes, and wise men and prophets….” friends if Jesus said he is sending scribes ( who are God sent people of the Word of God itself) then go have we the church treated them. We have accused them of being religious fanatics and we have said they have a religious spirit! What if Jesus is sending scribes to the church again like Ezra- men who will pull our hair out like Ezra did? Are we going to say they have a religious spirit or are we going to receive them as sent from Jesus. “he who accepts the one I send accepts me and he who accepts Me accepts the One who sent me. ”
    By the way I am no scribe. I am a prophet and a teacher but God will hold us all accountable for how we recieved the scribes Jesus has sent us.

  99. Barry, you are making a mistake that is common in christian religion, you have turned the bible into an idol that takes the place of The Lord God. Your understanding of the faith is what the human mind can conclude from scripture but it is not what The Holy Spirit reveals as the truth. The faith is not what is written in the bible ,it is what The Father writes on our hearts. It is in us, a part of who we are , it is Christ in you. Trust and confidence are a result of Christ in you, those things are the result of faith in Jesus.

    Hebrews 10:15-17

    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    15 And the Ruach HaKodesh too bears witness to us; for after saying,

    16 “ ‘This is the covenant which I will make
    with them after those days,’ says Adonai:
    ‘I will put my Torah on their hearts,
    and write it on their minds . . . ,’ ”[a]

    17 he then adds,

    “ ‘And their sins and their wickednesses
    I will remember no more.’ ”[b]

    You said,”But you can nev separate the Spirit from the Bible which is the Spirits mother tongue!’
    Here it is clear that you make God the Holy Spirit “one” with the bible.That is very wrong, it is making the bible an idol by putting it in a place of equality with The Father. You call it the Spirits mother tongue, this is unscritural nonsense, the result of deifying the bible.

    John 3:14-15

    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert [on a pole], so must [so it is necessary that] the Son of Man be lifted up [on the cross],

    15 In order that everyone who believes in Him [who cleaves to Him, trusts Him, and relies on Him] may [a]not perish, but have eternal life and [actually] live forever!

    The same bronze serpent that Moses had made at God’s command was later worshiped as an idol.The people took what The Lord God had used for their good and turned it into something else, an idol.
    2 Kings 18:4

    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    4 He removed the high places, broke the images, cut down the Asherim, and broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until then the Israelites had burned incense to it; but he called it Nehushtan [a bronze trifle].

  100. We who believe the Bible is the active present voice of the Spirit do not worship nor idolize the Bible . This is a false and spurious accusation and I reject it a such.
    God Bless You!

  101. debylynne Sep 20th 2012

    you are right. all those things are PROPHETIC shadows of what was to come….
    i see this over and over and over…..people start getting ‘all spiritual’ and running after all things ‘hebraic’ and their total trust in the PERSON of the Lord Jesus does NOT grow – instead – they become more and more and more ‘caught up’ in rituals and ‘shadows’ …..

    Jesus IS the substance – why would you turn back to a ‘shadow’ when you POSSESS the REAL.
    it is sad to me – that the LORD HIMSELF is ‘set aside’ so that men and women can pursue things that make them ‘feel’ spiritual in their WORKS….our CHRISTIANITY is a RELATIONSHIP with a PERSON – the LORD JESUS CHRIST – NOT a following of RITUALS!! that is RELIGION – NOT FAITH.

    i understand that people start out doing these things because they ‘think’ it will ‘please God’ and make Him more ‘real’ and even ‘help their faith’ but what we do NOT realize is that it is the NATURE OF MANKIND to ALWAYS put something ELSE – even a seeming ‘good’ thing in HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE and THAT, is ‘idolatry’, no matter how you slice it.

  102. I did not say that you worship the bible, I said that you look for the bible to do what only God Himself does. The example of the bronze snake was to show that people can turn anything into an idol, not to show that you worship the bible as your god. But it is clear that you think the bible is a part of who God the Holy Spirit is. The Father did not teach you this ,it is wrong. So it seems you are one step ahead of me in saying that the bible is you god.

    This verse shows that The Holy Spirt speaks to us from inside us and NOT as the bible being Him speaking.

    Romans 8:16

    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    16 The Spirit Himself [thus] testifies together with our own spirit, [assuring us] that we are children of God.

  103. JeffM your last two comments explain very well the problem of those who make the bible into an idol. The Lord gave me a dream about that sometime ago, because I had done the same thing!

  104. TyronePalmer, thanks ,I know about it because I used to do it. I made an idol of the bible.The Father will not let me to pick up a bible unless it is at His direction and for His purpose and I use it only for what He wants me to be doing. The Lord has taught me that the written word belongs to Him and it is not mine to do whatever I feel like doing with it.

  105. All these posts have been so enlightening and some almost provocative. God calls us His Sheep for the perfect reason. As much as we want to please, study and work ourselves into perfect thinking sheep, we’ve got a problem. Man can never please God with his personal knowlege and worship. But when man turns his life over to His Son; as Lord and Savior, He Will lead and guide His Own to the finish-line. It’s not what we do for Him, it’s what He did for us. He hears our baa-baas and He’s faithful in His word (we’re often faulty). A lack of Faith and lack of total Trust is a very vulnerable way to live. “The Lord is my Shephard; I shall Not want”

  106. Dear Tyrone.

    Please, I would like to hear of your dream regarding the idolatry of the bible.

    Robert Glenn

  107. debylynne Sep 21st 2012

    oh, joan w., bless you!!! you speak the sweet simple truth of Our Father – calling His children into RELATIONSHIP with Him – a relationship built on TRUST in WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR US – i was just walking around singing ‘my hope is built on nothing less, than JESUS’ blood and righteousness….i dare not trust the sweetest frame, but WHOLLY lean on JESUS’ name – ON CHRIST THE SOLID ROCK I STAND, ALL OTHER GROUND IS SINKING SAND, ALL OTHER GROUND IS SINKING SAND……amen and amen and amen. thank you, dear sister.

    i was also pondering on what kaz has shared and asked about and i will tell you something else i believe as pertains to ‘spiritual warfare’ – how did the LORD JESUS deal with the enemy when they were engaged in the great ‘temptation struggle’?? HE SPOKE THE WORD OF GOD – that is HOW He ‘resisted AND defeated’ him………


    BAH!!! the LORD JESUS HAS DONE IT ALL – where we MISS it is that we do NOT trust HIM or HIS Word – if we DID – we would simply STAND upon it in the face of the enemy’s attacks and we WOULD find ‘rest for our souls’.

    we are HIS children, HIS very OWN, and HE has given us EVERYTHING that we need for life and godliness…..

    those that think they have some ‘insider elitist knowledge’ that, of course, is attributed to their being ‘diligent’ to search it out and their superior spirituality are DECEIVED……..

    we are CALLED to ‘draw near’ – in order to come to truly KNOW and be KNOWN by Our God – NOT so we can ‘figure out’ the ‘code’ or ‘method’ of how to do all these ‘spiritual works’ – JESUS IS SIMPLY EVERYTHING and anyone that wants to say it is ‘JESUS….AND something else’ is wrong and dangerously close to denying the grace of God and making it about their own ‘works’.

    i have seen so many that think they have ‘found the key’ to this or that or this or that…..and it IS self-exaltation. there is ONE key to all that pertains to a true believer in JESUS CHRIST – that KEY is faith in ‘Jesus Christ and Him Crucified’ where every single enemy was defeated and every single victory WON by HIM and THROUGH Him and that holds for us, that are IN Him.

  108. Dear Jeff- I sincerely apologize my friend if I somehow unintentionally led you to believe that I think the Bible is a part of God ( your assumption) or if I unintentionally in some way communicated that I believe that anyone can independently of the Holy Spirit dictate , control, interpret or apply the Scriptures apart from His direct an present guidance, revelation or ministry ( also your assumption).
    I do not believe any such things. I have been a prophet for over 35 years and am intimately acquainted with the ministry of the Holy Spirit in supernatural guidance and revelation. I read my comments again and did not say that and for the life o f me I can’t figure out how anyone could jump to that erroneous conclusion.

    Having said that I do believe that whatever the Bible says – God says.
    I do believe that There is never a time that the Bible is not the present active effectual voice of God.
    “all Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”
    The inspired Psalmist declared,” you O God have exalted your Word and Your Name above all things”
    In that verse alone God HIMSELF unapologetically says that He holds His Holy Word in the VERY SAME PLACE OF HONOR AS HE HOLDS HIS NAME!
    The ONLY way the Bible can become ineffectual and powerless is when we disdain it and refuse to BELIEVE IT!

    For some 50 years now the devil has been systematically undermining the churches confidence in the written WORD OF GOD. This is why much of the church places more confidence in their own subjective experiences than they do in the inspired Text I the Bible. Jesus would never tolerate such a view of the Bible. He honored it as the supreme authority in all matters of faith an practice. The apostles did likewise.
    I have moved in the supernatural prophetic realm for 35 years , have heard the audible voice of God, have had personal visitations from Jesus Christ Himself , have had revelatory encounters with angels and with the heavenly realm that I cannot repeat.

    It is always very foolish indeed to remove, downplay or disregard the high honor and place God Himself places upon the Bible. The Holy Spirit always honors TE Bible and will never lead anyone to do that. That my friend is inspired another spirit.
    God Bless you my friend!

  109. debylynne Sep 21st 2012

    more on spiritual warfare (i.e. dealing with demonic forces)

    1 peter 5:8-9
    8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, STEADFAST IN THE FAITH, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

    James 4:6,7
    6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
    “God resists the proud,
    But gives grace to the humble.”
    7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and HE WILL FLEE from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

    herein is the SIMPLE truth of God…we ‘overcome’ the enemy in whatever form he is manifesting by our absolute FAITH in what God has DECLARED in His Word – He has promised that if we SUBMIT ourselves to Him and trust His nature, His character, His WORD, we WILL be able to overcome the ‘enemy’ – no matter what ‘form’ he takes….

    the ‘real’ question??? do we BELIEVE the LORD and what HE has declared in His Word or not???

  110. Andrew Sep 21st 2012

    I agree that it is possible to “idolize” the Bible. I believe the Pharisees did this. In other words, they emphasized only the “letter” so much that they persecuted the very Messiah when he came. People do this today with the Holy Spirit. They totally minimize the working of the Spirit – and only the “letter” matters in any way.

    However – it is also dangerous to go to the other extreme.

    “All Scripture is God breathed.” What a tremendous statement!! And how crucial it makes the Bible to all of us!!

    So let us not “minimize” the Bible either.

    -Andrew Strom.

  111. I quote debylynne above:

    i have seen so many that think they have ‘found the key’ to this or that or this or that…..and it IS self-exaltation. there is ONE key to all that pertains to a true believer in JESUS CHRIST – that KEY is faith in ‘Jesus Christ and Him Crucified’ where every single enemy was defeated and every single victory WON by HIM and THROUGH Him and that holds for us, that are IN Him.

    Amen sister… :-)

    There is no mystery, no “deeper knowledge”…

    We are what we are by the Grace of God…

    And He is Faithful to complete what He began…

    We will not stumble and we will not fall because He is the One who is holding us by the hand…

    No one can snatch us out of the Father’s Hand…

    As we rest in this place of security – this place of rest – we are protected by faith for the salvation to be revealed to us in the last time (as Peter says)…

    who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)

    Thank You Jesus…

    And as Joan shared that place of vulnerability – a complete loss of control of “looking after ourselves” – where we relax and say, “The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not want”, i.e. “I shall not strive, I shall not try and protect myself, provide for myself, strive to improve myself, make sure I don’t lose my salvation, etc”, but instead to simply trust God as Paul shares…

    For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. (2 Timothy 1:12 NASB)

    We have committed it all unto Him – He is Faithful. Fullstop.

    Amen sister? :-)

    Give us this faith Lord to speak this “Fullstop” and cover us with Your Peace, Your Blood over us is our Protection – the Blood applied on the basis of the faith which You have given us…

    You are Worthy…

    Thank You Jesus…

    Love in the Lord,


  112. Woops! The 2 Timothy 1:12 scripture I shared was from the KJV… :-)

  113. Foolhardy Fred Sep 21st 2012

    How convoluted and difficult some try to make the SIMPLE Gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ.

    Total submission to HIS WORD and total submission to HIS Spirit are mutually interdependent.

    IT IS impossible to do one without the other.and this mutual interdependence is exactly as God planned it to be.

    The Great Apostasy raging throughout the false church has been able to gain such a stranglehold because some (many perhaps) have dared to suggest that the “HOLY” Spirit is able to operate independently of HIS WORD.

    This, of course, is the ultimate lie of the devil and similar to the lie by which satan successfully tempted Eve in the garden.

    What a perversion of THE TRUTH it is to even suggest that The Spirit is able to able operate independently of His Word/ What self seeking nonsense is this evil notion..

    Clearly any spirit which leads one away from the Word of God is satanic in origin and MUST be resisted totally by ALL who will be saved?

    As the TRUE Apostle Paul said “Hold fast to the Traditions you have been taught by Word or by our epistle.”

    May God bless ALL who honour HIS WORD and permit the Holy Spiirt alone to empower them to live in harmony with it, By the Grace of God alone these are the people I intend to spend eternity in heaven with.

  114. Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

    I have difficulty with that verse in Psalms, it seems to me to be out of context with other scripture. I find it hard to believe that God would exalt or magnify written words above His own name.

    So, I wonder whether we should be reading ‘word’, in that verse, as ‘the Word of God’, who is of course Lord Jesus – this would tie in with other N.T. scripture.

    Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
    Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
    Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    This ‘Word for word’ doesn’t apply everywhere in the O.T., but I believe it does apply in many passages – and certainly applies often in the N.T.

    Joh 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

    Rev 19:11-13 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    Please note: By sharing my belief above, I am not minimizing scripture, which is the written words of God.

    I am saying that the ‘Word of God’ Christ Jesus our Lord, is to be placed above the written words which were first spoken by Him, before they could be written.

    It was by His spoken word that creation was ‘created’ :-)

    Hebrews 1 confirms that it is by the power of His word, that creation is held together:
    Heb 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    It is by reading His words in the writings of scripture, that we may understand these truths as the Holy Spirit reveals them to us.

    I wonder – In the topic vision, was Lord Jesus Christ, the living Word of God, the foundational rock for those ‘clergymen’..?

    In His love,

  115. Brother John Sep 21st 2012

    I bumped into members Plymouth Brethen in the city centre last Friday. They had an hour session whereby elders talked about the Bible and people should get right with God. This was spoken at people passing by. One member tried to give out tracks and after doing so was challenged by an elderly gentleman who said that they did not practice what they preached. He said also that they were exclusive and did not know what they were talking about.
    The member giving out tracks recognised me from past conversations and we greeted each by shaking hands. This guy was reluctant to talk as members of his church were nearby and listening. I felt that in front of church members he was embarrassed to talk about Christ for Plymouth Brethren doctrine is altered to suit them.
    So I went to the elderly gentleman who turned out to be a communist. I gave him my testimony which he accepted and talked about. He later recognised that a change had occurred with me as I understood his political persuation and ideology ( for before I became a christian I was an out and out revolutionary socialist who had travelled behind Iron Curtain countries). He could not dismiss how I became born again. One thing noticeable by him was that none of the Plymouth Brethren had a testimony of finding Christ. For what was apparent to him as they lacked any zeal for Christ, could not give an account about Christ being their personal Saviour, and were too engrossed in religion having been born into the Plymouth Brethren Church and its brotherhood. He felt condemned by them, showed no love, and no sooner after the hour expired, they all disappeared and went their way.
    The Lord reached out to him through our discussion and he said that he would like to talk again sometime.
    He hated religion especially portrayed by the Plymouth Brethren.
    I detest religious piety too!

  116. Andrew Sep 21st 2012

    Roger – I agree that the “spoken word” of the Bible is a truly “anointed word” and therefore carries life-giving POWER with it.

    Without the Holy Spirit, the written ‘words’ of Scripture cannot even be fully imbibed.

    And preachers MUST preach an “anointed” word to truly be preaching the gospel.

    Bless you!


  117. Andrew – a problem I have, is explaining that in a few words :-)

    Bless you too my friend..

  118. Roger, the word translated as ” name” can also mean reputation. In the context of the whole psalm and the time that David lived in, David is talking about the actual words that God spoke out loud . The psalm is all about The Lord becoming greater in the eyes of man because of what He had spoken to Israel. I agree with you that The Lord is greater than the written word. The Lord who gave us the word is greater than what he gave to us.

    Psalm 138

    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    138 By David:

    I give you thanks with all my heart.
    Not to idols, but to you I sing praise.
    2 I bow down toward your holy temple
    and give thanks to your name for your grace and truth;
    for you have made your word [even] greater
    than the whole of your reputation.
    3 When I called, you answered me,
    you made me bold and strong.

    4 All the kings of the earth will thank you, Adonai,
    when they hear the words you have spoken.
    5 They will sing about Adonai’s ways,
    “Great is the glory of Adonai!”
    6 For though Adonai is high, he cares for the lowly;
    while the proud he perceives from afar.

    7 You keep me alive when surrounded by danger;
    you put out your hand when my enemies rage;
    with your right hand you save me.
    8 Adonai will fulfill his purpose for me.
    Your grace, Adonai, continues forever.
    Don’t abandon the work of your hands!

  119. debylynne Sep 21st 2012

    andrew j. horton – thank you, my brother, amen and amen.

  120. JeffM – thankyou for sharing that :-)

    I mostly quote KJV, but do have E-sword, with a few translations (ASV, KJV, LITV, HOT, Geneva) for comparison – after reading your comment, I looked further, and found that Geneva words verse 2 this way:
    Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thine holy Temple and praise thy Name, because of thy louing kindenesse and for thy trueth: for thou hast magnified thy Name aboue all things by thy word.
    Isn’t that interesting – why the difference I wonder..?

  121. Serenity Sep 21st 2012

    Dear Andrew, You must be so discouraged that every time you post a piece, it is torn to pieces by well-meaning followers of Jesus. We also weary the Lord by putting our own interpretations on every word HE inspired.

    Can we not hear the Lord’s heartcry in this piece ?

    “Is there anyone willing to humbly present the clear Word of God, even at the risk of their life ? Who will speak My clear Word, even when satan is threatening to destroy you ?

    By God’s grace I am willing.

    And let’s GROW UP – we need to present the whole counsel of God, in the power of the Holy Spirit.
    Knowing only the written Word, but not the One Who inspired it, is very dangerous.
    Eg, I once heard the follower of ‘another Jesus’, (a cult), give an off-the-cuff ‘witness’ to an elderly couple. His ability to quote the written Word at length, impressed them greatly. They had not the slightest discernment that he was ‘ministering’ to them out of another spirit.
    (I happen to know that that couple, ‘believers’ in Christ for decades, had never been able to open to the Lord to receive His Holy Spirit. They also read the Word daily.)

    Let US grow up by feeding on the Word and the Holy Spirit daily, lest WE be deceived by either/or ‘Christianity’.

  122. Andrew Sep 21st 2012

    Well said, Serenity.


    -Andrew Strom.

  123. Roger , it looks like Geneva bible used the word “name” instead of ‘reputation’, but the translator wanted to give ‘name’ an implied meaning of reputation. So they rearranged the last part of the verse. I like it when the Holy Spirit shows us the truth in scripture even if it at first sounds like it contradicts what we see written. After some research you then can see why . We are 100% dependent on The Lord to know what the truth is.

  124. It took revelation from the Holy Spirit for me to understand the difference between the spoken word of God, the written word of God, and The WORD (Jesus), now I am able to put them all in their proper place. Without such a revelation we can rely too heavily on the ‘letter’ of scripture and not on the One who spoke and inspired it in the first place.

    When I was baptized in the Spirit the written word became a reality to me and more than a written testimony of what happened to first century Christians, it was for me like Paul meeting the risen Christ on the road to Damascus. Paul thought He knew God before that experience and then he was rudely awakened by the truth, light, and glory of Jesus Christ!

    Robert Glenn, here is the link to the dream I had about the bible, I posted it on my blog.

  125. debylynne Sep 21st 2012

    dear serenity,
    you sound like a very kind hearted person and that is good….but,
    i believe the whole point of ‘putting the vision/word’ up is to promote ‘discussion’ about it???? we ARE to ‘examine everything and hold fast to that which is good’, are we not???? this word truly does NOT ring true to me as a ‘vision/revelation’ – it sounds like a ‘message’ – as IF someone thought this all out and how it would go together and wrote it out…..what is being shared IS true – as far as the facts go as to what is going on in the ‘church’ world – NO one is questioning that – but, i do NOT sense the ‘authentic spirit of the LORD speaking prophetically’ in this. i just don’t.

    ‘iron sharpeneth iron’ – that IS the true purpose of discussion about these things – that is IDEALLY what should happen, isn’t it? is this about seeking to embrace those things that are TRUE and NOT to embrace any kind of deception or only to try and ‘please someone’ by agreeing with them??

    unless we are ‘forbidden’ to disagree with what is put up on this blog, then i feel compelled in the LORD to speak the truth – if we are NOT to speak the truth, then i will NOT be here.

    david marsh – thank you for your above remarks – they are gracious and they have the absolute ring of sincere truth – i do not pretend to be ANY kind of an authority – i will rather ‘glory’ in my ‘low position’ – i am utterly DEPENDENT on the LORD JESUS to lead me by HIS HOLY SPIRIT into ALL truth……

    i don’t have anything to ‘prove’ on here – i don’t have a recognized “ministry” (as in, recognized by men!!!) – i don’t ‘need’ to be ‘commended’ to others to have a ‘platform’ to speak. i am simply a follower of Jesus Christ and what i say on this blog comes from my heart totally – LET THE LORD BE EXALTED IN ALL THINGS – amen and amen.

    the LORD bless you all

  126. To me it is totally refreshing and encouraging to even hear some discussion and debate regarding the Bible, its place and role in relationship with God. Sadly this discussion would bot even be tolerated in many charismatic circles as The Holy Scriptures are barely referenced let alone discussed. Even mentioning the critical foundational role of the Bible in charismatic circles is met with scorn, ridicule and hurtful accusations of having a religious spirit or being into “dead doctrine”. This to me gives me some hope for the modern church.
    Paul asked this of newly planted churches, ” Pray that the Word of God is honored and spreads rapidly.” This is still the heart cry of the Spirit in this hour when the prophesy of Isaiah the prophet is being fulfilled, ” truth has been thrown down in the streets. ” and the words of Paul the apostle are being fulfilled, ” The time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine. Instead they will gather around themselves teachers who speak what their itching ears want to hear. ” and ” therefore I am innocent of the blood of all men. For I have not shrunk back to declare to you the whole counsel of God.”
    I would rather be scoffed and accused of idolizing the Bible than have blood on my hands on the day of judgement!

  127. Andrew Sep 21st 2012

    Actually Deby – I have been distressed for some time at the attitude towards perfectly sound and scriptural “dreams and visions” that are published on here.

    There is now so much “suspicion” and ‘backlash’ agains the “false” that even good and sound things are being maligned and nitpicked to death.

    This is very upsetting to me.

    So I agree with Serenity.

    Bless you!


  128. debylynne Sep 21st 2012

    i believe i hear your heart and i agree with what you are saying here – i do NOT believe for one moment that i ‘idolize’ the Bible – i feel guilty many times because i think perhaps i don’t ‘treasure’ it enough!!

    BUT, having said that, i will be ETERNALLY ETERNALLY ETERNALLY grateful for the ‘written Word’ because it literally ‘saved my life’ out of deep deception. i shared earlier that hearing todd bentley ‘misquote and misrepresent’ scripture is what ‘smacked me in the face’……..and when i began to examine ALL of the ‘visions and revelations and dreams and teachings’ that were being promoted from ALL that i had been involved in of the ‘charismatic world’, GOD’S PRECIOUS WORD was the ONLY solid rock i had to stand on and i CLUNG to it.

    the written Word of God IS our ‘plumbline’ and the PRECIOUS HOLY SPIRIT enlightens us to it and it to us……they are BOTH absolutely needed beyond measure and what this actually makes me think of is the ‘vision’ that rick joyner had about the ‘blue’ (spirit people) vs. the gray (mind people) – a so-called ‘vision’ let me clearly state that i absolutely REJECT as being true – it is FALSE as all of his are.
    but, what he presented was that those that clung to the ‘old way’ – the ‘gray matter’ – the Word – would be ‘against’ those that were more ‘led by the Spirit’ (the blue)………..

    this is a lie. we are NOT called to be ‘one or the other’. we are to be BOTH of the Word and of the Spirit just as was previously said.

    interpret the written Word of God by the Spirit of God – look at it through the immutable fact that GOD IS HOLY, GOD IS JUST, AND GOD IS LOVE – look at it through those ‘lenses’ and you will NOT be guilty of using the ‘letter of the law’ to abuse anyone. but, you will also NOT be guilty of DENYING the absolute holiness and righteous judgments of GOD………

  129. debylynne Sep 21st 2012

    dear andrew
    i appreciate you clarifying how you feel about this. i spoke the truth. that is all i can say. we ARE much more suspicious these days – and how can we not be??? even what DL said in the very beginning – that she wished she ‘knew’ more about the person that was supposed to have had this ‘vision’.

    i cannot speak for anyone else on here – i am not trying to nitpick – i did not go through this word looking for error – i assumed it was going to be ‘right on’ – that is why i was ‘troubled’ by the uneasiness that i felt – that something was just a little ‘off’. i asked my husband to read it WITHOUT influencing him by my feelings and he said the same thing – somehow the “Holy Spirit Thrust’ wasn’t there – he agreed with the ‘points’ that were made but, he said the same thing i thought – that it sounded more like a ‘message’ someone thought out and then presented it in the format of ‘prophetic’.

    now, why does it matter?? i have a problem with someone presenting something as being a ‘prophecy/vision’ when it isn’t – i don’t know this man and perhaps i am WRONG about this and i will gladly stand corrected if i am – but, that IS what i sense and it troubles me.


  130. Andrew Sep 21st 2012

    Personally I find this vision to be VERY sound, Scriptural, challenging and encouraging from the Holy Spirit.

    I have always felt the same way about it.


    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  131. Andrew Sep 21st 2012

    It saddens and distresses me that so many are now so comfortable with “writing off” virtually every dream or vision. If we despise prophecy we are disobeying Scripture and impoverishing the Body of Christ.

    Blessings to all.

    Andrew Strom.